Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5728657/

Topic: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cessna2
Posted 2013-04-02 08:28:40 and read 6975 times.

AA begins its daily service to LAX today. We know DL has been successful with its LAX service how will the market fare with two carriers? Thoughts?

Cessna2

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-02 08:36:19 and read 6931 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Thread starter):
We know DL has been successful with its LAX service

 

Adding and dropping service repeatedly over the last decade does not seem like a sign of success.
Flight did not operate this winter for example and is due to resume next week.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-04-02 08:40:44 and read 6905 times.

With the AA/US merger, it seems RDU and CLT have a common heavyweight carrier now. Just a thought.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cessna2
Posted 2013-04-02 08:42:41 and read 6902 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Adding and dropping service repeatedly over the last decade does not seem like a sign of success.
Flight did not operate this winter for example and is due to resume next week.

The flight has been operating 3x weekly all winter. Its set to resume daily service April 8th. Contrary to the opinions of anetters this flight is continually full and turning a profit. I still haven't figured out why DL didn't capitalize on the market to begin with.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-04-02 08:43:51 and read 6899 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Thread starter):
We know DL has been successful with its LAX service how will the market fare with two carriers? Thoughts?

Badly.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
With the AA/US merger, it seems RDU and CLT have a common heavyweight carrier now. Just a thought.

Delta is pretty big in RDU.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-04-02 08:50:26 and read 6850 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 3):
. I still haven't figured out why DL didn't capitalize on the market to begin with.

Probably because if it was as good as you think it is, it'd be daily already.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-04-02 09:23:38 and read 6694 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Thread starter):
We know DL has been successful with its LAX service

Not sure that's exactly a given.

Quoting cessna2 (Thread starter):
how will the market fare with two carriers? Thoughts?

Someone's going to get pushed off, the market just isn't large enough for two carriers offering that much capacity. IMHO AA has a bit more of a vested interest in expanding LAX and seems to show more commitment when it comes to launching routes such as this, so if I was a betting man I'd put my money on AA but we shall see I guess.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cessna2
Posted 2013-04-02 09:26:44 and read 6673 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6):
Not sure that's exactly a given.

From when i've worked the flight its always full.

Also to commemorate the launching of this new route AA has put N980AN on the route. 737-800 in the new Livery. Will be out there to see what pictures I can get.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-04-02 09:38:03 and read 6616 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 3):
Contrary to the opinions of anetters this flight is continually full and turning a profit.
Quoting cessna2 (Reply 7):
From when i've worked the flight its always full.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
Probably because if it was as good as you think it is, it'd be daily already.

   If it was making a profit, I don't see why AA would fly it less than daily half the year. As the saying goes, just cause it's full doesn't mean it's making money.

Looking at the most recent info, it appears DL ran at 94% for a load-factor on RDU-LAX, which none the less is impressive. With a median fare of less than $200 each way though, it certainly is very low yield. AA gets a better fare on LAX-DFW for example, while it is probably close to half the distance.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-04-02 09:42:33 and read 6587 times.

I'll be on the flight this weekend. Glad to see another trans-con option from Los Angeles.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
With the AA/US merger, it seems RDU and CLT have a common heavyweight carrier now. Just a thought.

Delta is pretty big in RDU.

AA+US will be a fair bit bigger than DL at RDU; and also the largest carrier at RDU (though not much larger than WN). RDU does have a new heavyweight network carrier in AA+US; and it will be interesting to see if AA capitalizes on that.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-02 09:49:05 and read 6543 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 3):
The flight has been operating 3x weekly all winter

Actually not. It resumed 3x weekly on March 3rd.

It also briefly operated over the holidays.

Certainly not "all winter" in any shape or form.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 3):
this flight is continually full and turning a profit

Dont fool yourself.

If such was the case the global airlines industry would be much healthier with the record load factors we see.

At the end of the day, this is another one of the yo-yo scheduling practices which DL has offered on these secondary routes to LAX.

Regarding AA, good for them. With their new lower cost base, and rather good flight timings maybe they can make a good go at it.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-04-02 09:53:09 and read 6507 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
RDU does have a new heavyweight network carrier in AA+US; and it will be interesting to see if AA capitalizes on that.

  

If AA restored RDU-BOS with 3-4 daily 2-class 70-seaters, I think they're schedule in RDU would be essentially "there." With the existing extensive schedule to AA's other hubs, plus LHR, plus now LAX, AA already offers a very compelling value proposition for RDU-area business customers.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Regarding AA, good for them. With their new lower cost base, and rather good flight timings maybe they can make a good go at it.

  

AA has the right cost base and a good schedule. I will be interested to see how this does.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2013-04-02 09:53:26 and read 6507 times.

One thing that I want everyone to consider is this:

The flights do NOT compete against each other, they complement each other to allow for a morning and evening flight from LAX and RDU...

I dont think it will be an either/or but ratehr a this and that.. the only thing is that i don't think you can book a Delta morning LAX departure and an American afternoon RDU departure.. I don't think..

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-04-02 09:59:19 and read 6456 times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
The flights do NOT compete against each other, they complement each other to allow for a morning and evening flight from LAX and RDU...

They compete against each other nonetheless; in a market that really isn't big enough for two airlines long term.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
I dont think it will be an either/or but ratehr a this and that.. the only thing is that i don't think you can book a Delta morning LAX departure and an American afternoon RDU departure.. I don't think..

DL and AA interline and you can even book DL one-way and AA the other way entirely using aa.com or delta.com.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-04-02 10:00:33 and read 6444 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 7):
Also to commemorate the launching of this new route AA has put N980AN on the route. 737-800 in the new Livery. Will be out there to see what pictures I can get.

Awesome, can't wait to see them.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):

The flights do NOT compete against each other, they complement each other to allow for a morning and evening flight from LAX and RDU...

Unless AA and DL codeshare (which they obviously don't), they will absolutely be competing with one another. The flight times may be complementary, but they will definitely be competing for the same passengers.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-04-02 10:39:37 and read 6282 times.

I think this flight for AA is very belated. Definitely a hole in their overall network (ditto AUS-MIA). I think it will do well because AA has a great deal of feed into LAX, more than DL.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-04-02 10:44:55 and read 6254 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):
They compete against each other nonetheless; in a market that really isn't big enough for two airlines long term.

I think it probably is large enough. Maybe is isnt as stimulated as BNA, but i think two daily flights can be supported in the market.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-04-02 10:57:47 and read 6211 times.

I am sure it will vary by dates but i tried a date and both AA or DL choosing the non-stops single carrier were the cheapest flights but mixing the two aka two one ways in pricing made the ticket way more money than the single carrier nonstops. I know people on here are stuck in 2001 where few companies cared but now alot do about buying the cheaper stuff. AA and DL will certainly be competing i think on this route. Is it big enough for two airlines to be profitable?

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: BA0197
Posted 2013-04-02 10:59:13 and read 6205 times.

Also today is the inagural JFK-IAH flight for AA!

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-04-02 11:32:10 and read 6094 times.

Loads for LAX-RDU-LAX are looking surprisingly good so far. It's almost as if AA never left the route. I know loads don't mean much here, but it's still good to see.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cessna2
Posted 2013-04-02 12:19:05 and read 5928 times.

RDU spotters the LHR flight is in the new livery as well. We will have two newly painted a/c for today's celebration!

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: casinterest
Posted 2013-04-02 12:45:50 and read 5861 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 20):
RDU spotters the LHR flight is in the new livery as well. We will have two newly painted a/c for today's celebration!

I may have to drive by the airport and see this on the way home.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Adding and dropping service repeatedly over the last decade does not seem like a sign of success.
Flight did not operate this winter for example and is due to resume next week.

But in the last decase, RDU's passenger base has grown greatly. Also , Delta and American are not really the same airlines that they once were.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):
They compete against each other nonetheless; in a market that really isn't big enough for two airlines long term.

Maybe, maybe not. I think a lot will be determined by how Delta and American build out their Route Networks. With the consolidation of the airlines, these flights are more of releivers for Atlanta and Dallas traffic than cost centers for these airlines .

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: AirMatt
Posted 2013-04-02 13:00:34 and read 5807 times.

Well AA is definitely making LAX to the South easy. With nonstop service to MIA, FLL, MCO, RDU, BNA and CLT after the merge. I'm patiently waiting/hoping for ATL. Even with the competition, I would think AA could do well with one daily flight.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-04-02 13:50:38 and read 5666 times.

Quoting AirMatt (Reply 22):
Well AA is definitely making LAX to the South easy. With nonstop service to MIA, FLL, MCO, RDU, BNA and CLT after the merge

I'm amazed that both DL & US have been flying nonstop from CLT-SLC for over a year, yet the naysayers were dooming the route before it began.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-04-02 15:02:41 and read 5493 times.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 23):
I'm amazed that both DL & US have been flying nonstop from CLT-SLC for over a year, yet the naysayers were dooming the route before it began.

You are correct many doubt anything that doesn't involve the top five biggest cities in population lol. One thing the route has is major help from connections on both sides, o&d could be minimal and both could keep it flying. Neither airline has the connection power of either SLC or CLT at LAX and clearly no sizeable number is connecting in RDU on AA. I think both airlines would want the flight to survive on o&d that is the difference so many miles and hubs overflying on that route.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cessna2
Posted 2013-04-02 16:36:26 and read 5653 times.

AA 174 just left RDU sporting the new paint!

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2013-04-02 16:50:01 and read 5538 times.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 23):
I'm amazed that both DL & US have been flying nonstop from CLT-SLC for over a year, yet the naysayers were dooming the route before it began.

I said from the beginning that DL wouldn't drop out. They'd much rather bleed alongside US. Just a week after US announced CLT-SLC DL announced 1x daily CLT-SLC.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: rduoodl
Posted 2013-04-02 19:20:50 and read 5271 times.

AA 1st RDU-LAX


Had a really long scheduled ground time for some type of filming. Not sure if it was to promote the flight locally, or what. Water salute caught me off guard but I made it down to the ramp just in time.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-04-02 19:52:19 and read 4945 times.

Quoting rduoodl (Reply 27):

Long ground tiimes ae common wit inaugural flights.

For instance, B6's inaugural PVD and CHS flights were both on the ground for ~2-2.5 hours for press and media to be able to cover them and for festivities.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cessna2
Posted 2013-04-02 21:47:53 and read 4337 times.

Quoting rduoodl (Reply 27):

Nice shot!!! Do you work for AA?

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-04-03 02:04:17 and read 3817 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):

Adding and dropping service repeatedly over the last decade does not seem like a sign of success.
Flight did not operate this winter for example and is due to resume next week.

Ah. Yet another let me post without looking. RDU came back on the 3rd last month. It goes daily tomorrow.
Why is this becoming so regular around here?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Certainly not "all winter" in any shape or form.

It was seasonal. If we are going to count seasonal flights a failures then everyone is failing.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 26):
I said from the beginning that DL wouldn't drop out. They'd much rather bleed alongside US. Just a week after US announced CLT-SLC DL announced 1x daily CLT-SLC.

It would be nice if SLC-TPA/MIA came back next. (and morning LAX-MIA flight)
Quoting AirMatt (Reply 22):
Well AA is definitely making LAX to the South easy. With nonstop service to MIA, FLL, MCO, RDU, BNA and CLT after the merge. I'm patiently waiting/hoping for ATL. Even with the competition, I would think AA could do well with one daily flight.

As is Delta, MCO,MIA,TPA,BNA,RDU,ATL,MEM

United on the other hand....

[Edited 2013-04-03 02:05:17]

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: RDUDDJI
Posted 2013-04-03 06:12:27 and read 3169 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):
They compete against each other nonetheless; in a market that really isn't big enough for two airlines long term.

That's my biggest concern as an RDU flyer. If they both come in and try to "buy" the business, eventually one of them will relent and quit, and then the other will either jack up fares, or quit the market also. Similar to how NW was very territorial at its hubs and focus cities.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 29):
Nice shot!!! Do you work for AA?

Judging by his/her screenname, I'd say they work for DL...  
Quoting cessna2 (Reply 25):
AA 174 just left RDU sporting the new paint!

Well, at least now that they're merging, they'll have an excuse to fix that paint job.  

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: PIEAvantiP180
Posted 2013-04-03 08:07:28 and read 2669 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):

You forgot add MSY.

Topic: RE: RDU-LAX Via AA Starts Today
Username: cessna2
Posted 2013-04-03 08:43:45 and read 2535 times.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 31):
That's my biggest concern as an RDU flyer. If they both come in and try to "buy" the business, eventually one of them will relent and quit, and then the other will either jack up fares, or quit the market also. Similar to how NW was very territorial at its hubs and focus cities.

It'll be tough after the AA/US merger. DL and the new AA will be neck and neck in RDU. I can see DL leaving the market. It would then make sense for them to open up SEA. Still have your Asia and HNL connections. That would be the best case for the airport. Then all 3 of the most coveted west coast markets would be covered.

And another newly painted 738 will be making an appearance this evening. N908nn or Flight 1204 will be coming in from DFW around 6:15pm.

[Edited 2013-04-03 09:26:10]


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/