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Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-03-28 05:47:53 and read 31295 times.

I didn't see this posted in the AA repaint thread.

American Airlines new design not a done deal post-merger, says incoming CEO

http://skift.com/2013/03/26/american...eal-post-merger-says-incoming-ceo/

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-03-28 05:58:30 and read 31226 times.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that. While its not a done deal, its much of an indication that it will change. He did in fact say He doesnt know the answer to the question yet... Will it change? Maybe, Maybe not... Who knows. We'll just have to wait and see really...

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-03-28 06:03:14 and read 31160 times.

This is good news. The new livery is so terrible, I don't think they have a choice but to 'refresh' it once the merger is complete.

No major airline can fly with that tail if they want to be taken seriously.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-03-28 06:56:58 and read 30622 times.

I think they should take the soaring eagle and put it on the tail. (As well as the winglets)

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-03-28 07:05:58 and read 30523 times.

If the livery is going to change wouldn't it make since for AA to stop repainting their aircraft in order to save money? I know Parker can't tell AA to stop the repainting process because he is not yet the CEO of AA, however since all parties involved know that the government will sign off on this merger wouldn't it be smart to get some AA and US people together and make a final decision to either keep the current new AA livery or start working on an all new livery for the new AA/US and stop AA from waisting any more money painting their aircraft in this new scheme?

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: RomeoBravo
Posted 2013-03-28 07:10:07 and read 30449 times.

I know, just put it back to the old unique and timeless classic that they had.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-28 07:18:04 and read 30374 times.

Hallelujah. Get rid of that tail. Somebody. Anybody. Please.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BC77008
Posted 2013-03-28 07:32:29 and read 30213 times.

It's not going to change. DP said this to employees in CLT and PHX just to appease them. Nothing to see here folks, move on....

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: NWAROOSTER
Posted 2013-03-28 07:32:48 and read 30241 times.

American Airlines is going to need to repaint their aircraft , merger or no merger. Their aircraft now have a lot of composite materials used on them and that all has to be painted. Just painting the composite creates a checkerboard effect with the bare aluminum used on it's aircraft. If I am correct any Airbus aircraft that American or US Airways use aluminum that does not have Alclad Aluminum and requires painting. This is why all Airbus aircraft are painted with a green primer. I have heard that Airbus will use Alclad , but the customer must wait for it and pay for the Alclad Aluminum.
The Fokker F-100s that American had came with Alclad Aluminum, but it had to be ordered special. American at that time did not want to paint the fuselage of their aircraft, but wanted them to be bare polished aluminum.
This saved weight, reduced drag and reduced fuel consumption.   

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: questions
Posted 2013-03-28 07:58:28 and read 29976 times.

As predicted by a lot of folks, this disaster of a new AA livery will not stick. Changing it is just not the highest priority in the middle of a transaction this size and Parker's previous comments were just polite corporate speak to show support until he is fully in charge.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-03-28 08:12:24 and read 29843 times.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 2):
The new livery is so terrible

Having seen it with my own eyes in Dallas recently in both good and indifferent weather, I have to say I like it.   

I think it's a BIG improvement on the mishmash that the ancient livery had become with different bits of various planes painted grey. If not frequently polished, the bare metal becomes shabby very quickly. From the state of some of the fleet, it's obvious that polishing had dropped way down AA's priority list.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: SEA
Posted 2013-03-28 08:25:57 and read 29521 times.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 5):

I know, just put it back to the old unique and timeless classic that they had.

A few months ago everyone said it was hideous and old and dated and now it's unique and timeless.

I think the problem is not the livery, it's a.nutters  

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: william
Posted 2013-03-28 08:26:40 and read 29446 times.

The only problem I have is the base coat. If that is silver, I want to see AA's definition of light gray.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: cruiseshipcrew
Posted 2013-03-28 08:41:43 and read 29068 times.

My sources say its 100% confirmed a new livery and logo is already being worked on and I have full trust in my sources. The Delta Airlines Ron Allen livery will feel like it lasted forever compared to this.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ukoverlander
Posted 2013-03-28 08:41:50 and read 29041 times.

Get rid of it. It's hideous - a crass, in your face, tasteless design that lacks any kind of class or subtlety.

[Edited 2013-03-28 08:43:48]

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: avek00
Posted 2013-03-28 08:45:20 and read 28927 times.

Eh, I just interpret The AAlcoholic's comments to mean that once he's CEO, they'll keep the new AA livery, but change the tail to a tint-coordinated version of the current US tail. Together that'd be a sweet livery.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Austwin
Posted 2013-03-28 08:52:13 and read 28695 times.

If they would fix the tail so that the blue field didn't have lines it would look like a flag. As it is now, it looks like piano keys to me. And the paint needs to be more silver, imho. I'd prefer the eagle, but if the flag was fixed that would be ok with me too.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-28 09:04:09 and read 28426 times.

Wow... to get a CEO to even comment on something so trivial??? All the bitching MUST have gotten someone's attention ..enough to force these comments.

I've never seen an airline CEO come remotely close to a ...'hold on a minute..' about something of this rather insignificant nature. They usually have a 'whatever attitude' about this stuff.

Lord knows I bitched up a firestorm here, on youtube vids, on news web pages that discussed the 'new livery' - along with many many others. I've no doubt that the 'torrential rain of negative comments' left a stinging impact on someone in PR who felt it worthy to run in up the chain to prompt this addressing of the issue.

Now the clue to this being 'fluff n puff' or an actual area of concern will come in the form of a decelerated paint schedule, the guys here who seem to have a handle on the ships headed for the paint shops, will pick up on it right away. If that happens...I'll be one happy camper.

Iberia put the brakes on their ugly revision. So now there's hope AA can go back and get it right...funny thing is, US Airways has never ran into an ugly scheme they didn't like. For them to speak of a livery...that's HUGE.


Whoever forced the issue, please read this....

I've seen two ships up-close and personal... it blows, in big chunks. In a video at Heathrow, that tail next to a sea of British Airways - Union Jack tails looked like a piss poor attempt to 'also put our (US) flag on a tail'..it really looks that bad.

1. - Get rid of that tail ...at a very minimum! (start completely over! Even consider some of renderings done by a few A.netters here in the thread discussing the 'new livery').

2. - Embolden that forward fuselage appearance just a tad

..but whatever you do..abandon this 'cheap video-game' look.. it is indeed horrendous! It's just not meant to be worn by America's premier carrier!

BN747

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: gulfstream650
Posted 2013-03-28 09:19:45 and read 28005 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
Hallelujah. Get rid of that tail. Somebody. Anybody. Please.

                       

I just don't know how they could have got it so wrong. So very wrong.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-28 09:37:25 and read 27529 times.

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 13):
My sources say its 100% confirmed a new livery and logo is already being worked on and I have full trust in my sources. The Delta Airlines Ron Allen livery will feel like it lasted forever compared to this.

So why changing it in the first place    What a waste of money.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-03-28 09:38:54 and read 27480 times.

The only issue I see here is that the US tail is pretty poor so the decision makers involved wont have a history of good decisions on livery. Redoing the newly painted tails and leaving the rest is the easiest option, and likely what will happen. Repaint the US birds and unrepainted AA birds first, hit the tails of the recent ones last. Or do a B6 and come up with multiple tails leaving the current tails as is.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: georgiaame
Posted 2013-03-28 09:44:26 and read 27271 times.

Actually, I really like the tail. It's that off tone, Euro-white fuselage that I think is ugly. Eagle it up a bit, dare to be distinctive! People might not have liked Delta's "wavy-gravy" tail (I loved it), but it was distinctive and different from all the others - a hell of a lot better than the dull mess they fly these days. Get some Stars and Bars, Eagles, SOMETHING, onto that bland tube!

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ER757
Posted 2013-03-28 09:46:14 and read 27222 times.

Gee, thanks DP - just what a.net needed , yet another AA livery thread.  

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: klkla
Posted 2013-03-28 09:47:17 and read 27221 times.

The rest of the branding is pretty good. I think 90% of us on here agree that the problem is the tail and seemingly Parker gets this, as well. I'm willing to bet that the tail is the only thing DP changes.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-03-28 09:49:21 and read 27164 times.

They only have, what, 10 planes painted in the new color scheme?

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-03-28 10:06:35 and read 27431 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
Wow... to get a CEO to even comment on something so trivial??? All the bitching MUST have gotten someone's attention ..enough to force these comments.

I've never seen an airline CEO come remotely close to a ...'hold on a minute..' about something of this rather insignificant nature. They usually have a 'whatever attitude' about this stuff.

Airline CEOs are actually usually very interested and involved in things like the livery. In fact they often like to have the final say. It is not trivial for them at all, it is an integral part of the airline's branding and what it stands for.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: gdg9
Posted 2013-03-28 10:13:27 and read 27187 times.

Quoting klkla (Reply 23):
I think 90% of us on here agree that the problem is the tail

The tail is an awful mess and lets not forget the bland, banal fuselage. Throw some color or stripes on there. Something. This looks like it was designed on a napkin in 10 minutes.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Markam
Posted 2013-03-28 10:17:02 and read 27740 times.

I know I am going against the A.net tide, by I actually like the new livery better than the old one. I mean, the old one was nice... 30 years ago, for the 2010s it looked incredibly outdated. So, I welcome the change.

That said, may it have been done better? Maybe. So, it is not surprising that all cards are on the table, but I do not think that they are going back to the old livery, and be careful with what you wish because a new livery doesn't necessarily mean a better livery, AA may end up with a variation of eurowhite, which would make the current one look shining!

Also, irrespective of all of the above, I think that Doug Parker or whoever would be fools to implement a new livery if AA has already painted a substantial amount of planes when the merger actually happens, livery should be the least of their priorities, especially if a further change would mean significant additional cost.

  

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Noise
Posted 2013-03-28 10:25:39 and read 27490 times.

Keep the US Airways logo, but use the American Airlines name. The US Airways scheme is classy and beautiful.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: gkpetery
Posted 2013-03-28 10:26:00 and read 27458 times.

I love the new AA livery and logo! What's wrong with showing a little American pride in our flag on the tail of "American Airlines?" It makes sense to me and I think the colors are powerful and strong. As a first born American from an immigrant family, "Becoming a New American" slogan of change and becoming better resonated with me. It's a beautiful slogan about the changes that are taking place now I hope will also parallel our country's recovery as well.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-03-28 10:39:32 and read 27114 times.

Quoting gkpetery (Reply 29):
love the new AA livery and logo! What's wrong with showing a little American pride in our flag on the tail of "American Airlines?"

Nothing wrong with showing American pride at all, that is not the issue here. I think people just think the way the flag design has been stylized and executed is ugly, unlike say the British flag on BA which most people feel is tastefully done.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: DL WIDGET HEAD
Posted 2013-03-28 10:43:01 and read 27073 times.

Quoting Noise (Reply 28):
Keep the US Airways logo, but use the American Airlines name. The US Airways scheme is classy and beautiful.



Slap an AA and eagle on the US tail in place of their stylized flag and the name "American" on the fuselage and there you have it. A wonderful scheme that is recognized the world over instead of the abomination they just paid millions for.

[Edited 2013-03-28 10:46:36]

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: na
Posted 2013-03-28 10:46:15 and read 26917 times.

The merger talks were certainly on for some time before AA entered into the final stages of discussing a new CI. I wonder why the AA board wasnt so clever to wait another few months with it. Sounds pretty ill-managed to me.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 2):
No major airline can fly with that tail if they want to be taken seriously.

I think it looks much better than the drab grey old tail.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-03-28 10:52:40 and read 26794 times.

Quoting Markam (Reply 27):
Also, irrespective of all of the above, I think that Doug Parker or whoever would be fools to implement a new livery if AA has already painted a substantial amount of planes when the merger actually happens, livery should be the least of their priorities, especially if a further change would mean significant additional cost.

Very valid point. I have been surprised at the speed with which AA is repainting aircraft. Per the most recent thread, there are already 18 aircraft painted or being repainted. They are moving quickly. If that pace continues, by summertime they'll have passed the point where they can "call an audible" on the new livery.

Without digressing too much into personal opinion, I've come completely around on the new look. When it was unveiled back in January, I was part of the crowd that was foaming at the mouth with rage. Since then I've had the chance to see it in person on multiple aircraft - I even flew a repainted CRJ-700 two days ago from ORD to IAH - and have become a fan. And aside from the tail, I think most people agree every other component of the new brand - advertising, print materials, loyalty cards, airport furnishings, etc. - looks very fresh and very nice. I'd hate to see all of that investment go to waste.

I could see the tail getting a tweak or some kind of refresher if it really bothers Doug Parker that much. But this was a huge expenditure and a multi-year effort at AA, and at the rate they're repainting planes, I suspect it's going to stick around.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-28 10:54:38 and read 26929 times.

Am I the only who doesn't find US's current scheme attractive? I far preferred their old one, the new one looks cartoonish and like it was ripped off from Presidential Airways:

http://www.dc-9.us/Memorabilia/PresBAe146GOHAP.jpg

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: a3xx900
Posted 2013-03-28 11:04:00 and read 26720 times.

Well,
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution... Nothing drastic, they can still pay whoever came up with the new CI but the tail is less colorfull yet shows the eagle (which I really like btw) and the "American" letters are chrome-polished as a salute to the good old AA days  

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: RomeoBravo
Posted 2013-03-28 11:16:04 and read 26076 times.

Quoting SEA (Reply 11):
A few months ago everyone said it was hideous and old and dated and now it's unique and timeless.

I think the problem is not the livery, it's a.nutters

Well i was not one of those people. In fact i don't think your statement is reflective at all. I think a lot of people agreed with me then too.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-28 11:25:35 and read 25932 times.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 33):
If that pace continues, by summertime they'll have passed the point where they can "call an audible" on the new livery.

Well that's the thing, isn't it. Horton has a $20 million severance package on the line, plus a year's worth of CEO responsibilities lined up. He certainly doesn't want to be seen setting up an adversarial position on any subject, even something like the livery, if he wants things to go smoothly.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 36):
I think a lot of people agreed with me then too.

Back then? You only joined on Feb 14th, over two weeks after the new livery was revealed.   

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: william
Posted 2013-03-28 11:25:46 and read 25837 times.

My problem is the 'silver' or grey they chose as a base paint. I could live with the tail, though I think its abit tacky and I wander how much of a pain it is to stripe the tail to paint it. The Silver paint should actually be a reflective silver giving homage to the metallic paint, I can still hear the commercial, "silver bird take me there........"

I shudder to think what the present colors will fade too, oh yeah, yes I can, just rememer the former NWA planes after a couple of years leaving the factory. Dull gray.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: RomeoBravo
Posted 2013-03-28 11:30:18 and read 25658 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 37):
Back then? You only joined on Feb 14th, over two weeks after the new livery was revealed.

I've read these forums for a long time. Nor is it the only place in the world where aviation is discussed.

[Edited 2013-03-28 11:31:35]

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: NWAROOSTER
Posted 2013-03-28 11:44:12 and read 25418 times.

Quoting william (Reply 38):

My problem is the 'silver' or grey they chose as a base paint. I could live with the tail, though I think its abit tacky and I wander how much of a pain it is to stripe the tail to paint it. The Silver paint should actually be a reflective silver giving homage to the metallic paint, I can still hear the commercial, "silver bird take me there........"

I shudder to think what the present colors will fade too, oh yeah, yes I can, just remember the former NWA planes after a couple of years leaving the factory. Dull gray.

You must be referring to the "Bowling Shoe" or Woodpecker livery. The gray and the red both faded badly.
However the Silver Metallic livery Northwest Airlines used in its final paint livery was quit good. It, however, was very labor extensive to apply as it took several coats of a clear coat. That paint livery Northwest used with the American tittles and Eagle on the tail might a very stunning paint livery for the "NEW' American Airlines to use as most their aircraft would need to be painted in full without any bare metal present.   

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-03-28 11:46:47 and read 25267 times.

Keep the silver, lose the tail. Someone posted a rendering of 77W with the new AA logo placed on the tail in place of the flag and it looked just perfect.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 9w748capt
Posted 2013-03-28 11:55:45 and read 25037 times.

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 35):

Well,
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution... Nothing drastic, they can still pay whoever came up with the new CI but the tail is less colorfull yet shows the eagle (which I really like btw) and the "American" letters are chrome-polished as a salute to the good old AA days

Color me impressed! Maybe a little darker font to the "American" spanning the fuselage but that is light years ahead of what AA has now - awesome!

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: a3xx900
Posted 2013-03-28 12:00:34 and read 24939 times.

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 42):
Color me impressed! Maybe a little darker font to the "American" spanning the fuselage but that is light years ahead of what AA has now - awesome!

Came out a little lighter in color in the jpg than I had planned.

Thanks though!  

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flpuck6
Posted 2013-03-28 12:01:21 and read 24816 times.

rj777,

I totally agree. I love the new updated eagle.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 3):
I think they should take the soaring eagle and put it on the tail. (As well as the winglets)

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-03-28 12:45:52 and read 23719 times.

I certainly wouldn't expect a full redesign, but it wouldn't be unprecedented for there to be some relatively minor changes.

The last time AA redesigned its branding, there was originally no eagle at all. AA employees demanded that the eagle be retained, but Massimo Vignelli (who designed the branding and livery) refused to add one, so AA had to have someone else design it.

Then, more recently, we had DL replace the soft widget with the traditional one, again because employees hated the change (though at least DL never got rid of the widget entirely).

UA changed the font on its post-merger branding, from retaining the same one CO used, though the original version was far from ever actually seeing the side of a real airplane.

And of course no one could forget BA's phasing out of the World Tails in favor of the Union Flag version. The new AA livery is uncontroversial in comparison.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
Wow... to get a CEO to even comment on something so trivial???

Branding is anything but trivial. OK, so it is not the most important thing an airline CEO has to deal with, but it's far from trivial. It's a key element of the public image of his (future) company.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 34):
Am I the only who doesn't find US's current scheme attractive?

I've never really understood the love for it. It's not bad, but it's really quite bland.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: rikkus67
Posted 2013-03-28 12:58:47 and read 23383 times.

Bland (but clean) fuselage, and overly busy tail. Separately, they are well done elements. Together, however, they are not cohesive. Here's hoping that manic tail is toned down somehow...

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-03-28 13:03:06 and read 23336 times.

Quoting Noise (Reply 28):

AMEN!

I saw it at JFK once on the 737 and I agree that the fuselage looks good. I like the lettering and the metallic silver paint. It is original and unique. But that tail.....wow. Too busy and not professional-looking. It looks like a poorly-thrown-together collage a six year old would make in art class for Memorial Day. And the fact that they took the stars off the flag does, has, and always will bother me.

The US livery, while a little bland, is sleek and classy. It catches the eye and works well on their planes. The AA livery does not (it catches your eye, but not for the same reason).

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: QANTASvJet
Posted 2013-03-28 13:05:18 and read 23219 times.

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 35):
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution...

I was hoping one of you clever designer people would offer something like this.

It looks great - really turns things round completely. Also, it would be relatively cheap to implement, plus it would be a way in which the new management could convey a strong message - that they are willing to act quickly to address a problem, but that they have enough tact and good judgement to build on what others have done, rather than just throw it all away.

Would be great to get a campaign going to urge them to put the new logo on the tail and winglets, in just this sort of way. Twitter, facebook, anybody?

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: alfa164
Posted 2013-03-28 13:09:29 and read 23132 times.

Quoting gkpetery (Reply 29):

Have you actually seen the livery in person? It is hideous - especially the stripes that continue from the taiul on down to the fuselage - and it looks very, very cheap. It might work for a cut-rate, no-frills carrier - that is what it looks like - but it is not a proper livery for American's "flagship fleet".

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: a3xx900
Posted 2013-03-28 13:13:03 and read 23189 times.

Quoting QANTASvJet (Reply 48):
Would be great to get a campaign going to urge them to put the new logo on the tail and winglets, in just this sort of way. Twitter, facebook, anybody?

A facebook page maybe?



I really should be working....   

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-03-28 13:13:30 and read 23134 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Thread starter):

I didn't see this posted in the AA repaint thread.

American Airlines new design not a done deal post-merger, says incoming CEO

I had actually posted comments in the Livery thread that Parker made after the merger was announced. This isn't anything new, but the gist of his comments were that he's going to listen to the employees on the livery. I see the new logo and font type remaining. The tail is toast. They can easily modify the paint scheme to incorporate some of the existing US scheme into it - much like what they did with US/HP.

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 35):
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution... Nothing drastic, they can still pay whoever came up with the new CI but the tail is less colorfull yet shows the eagle (which I really like btw) and the "American" letters are chrome-polished as a salute to the good old AA days  

Too much white/gray IMO. I agree with the placement for the new logo, but doesn't seem to really do enough for the paint scheme. Good job though.  

If anything we will see a new heritage logo more than likely.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: a3xx900
Posted 2013-03-28 13:15:52 and read 22860 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 51):
If anything we will see a new heritage logo more than likely.

They should really keep the new logo. It combines the eagle, the "A", a star, the colors of the flag... It grows on me I must say...

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: b737100
Posted 2013-03-28 13:18:38 and read 22838 times.

Well, it is kinda growing on me, I really did not like it at first. The old logo is as iconic as the Pan American blue globe. It would be great if somehow the old logo could be retained in a updated version and maybe a nod to US/HP for unity. My 2 cents 

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-03-28 13:29:09 and read 22561 times.

I guess we should just paint it boring white like everyone else...  

Keep the new livery. It looks really good and it's nice to have some color for once.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-03-28 13:42:44 and read 22321 times.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 2):
This is good news. The new livery is so terrible

  

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 13):
Delta Airlines

Delta Air Lines...three words, one great airline(also 3 words).

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
America's premier carrier

...is NOT American Airlines! By ANY stretch of the imagination.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 39):
Nor is it the only place in the world where aviation is discussed.

Well, it SHOULD be!!

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: petrhsr
Posted 2013-03-28 14:03:46 and read 21730 times.

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 14):
Get rid of it. It's hideous - a crass, in your face, tasteless design that lacks any kind of class or subtlety.

Thus being entirely suitable, some might argue, for gracing the aircraft in service with AMERICAN airlines?

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-28 14:33:33 and read 21047 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 55):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
America's premier carrier

...is NOT American Airlines! By ANY stretch of the imagination.

No? ... name any other better known, better identified US carrier worldwide? Even identified in countries it does not serve...

United? No chance.

Delta? Not even close.

...let's hear it then?

It is undisputedly ... American Airlines.


BN747

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Lofty
Posted 2013-03-28 14:40:12 and read 20890 times.

If the New American is to say we are new and the old is gone then the new identity needs to reflect that. I watched a New American land at LHR the other day and it looked great and installed pride in me. It was new and fresh and brought the airline out of the seventies.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyfree727
Posted 2013-03-28 14:43:34 and read 20860 times.

As I predicted when the new livery was announced, one thing was for sure.. 50% would love it, 50% would hate it.. So, 1/2 of you need to get over it! (pick either half). I havent seen this much commotion over a piece of tail, since, well, never.

AA ORD

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-03-28 14:50:47 and read 20763 times.

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 31):
Slap an AA and eagle on the US tail in place of their stylized flag and the name "American" on the fuselage and there you have it.

  

I could definitely get behind this.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2013-03-28 15:06:36 and read 20346 times.

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 59):
As I predicted when the new livery was announced, one thing was for sure.. 50% would love it, 50% would hate it.. So, 1/2 of you need to get over it! (pick either half). I havent seen this much commotion over a piece of tail, since, well, never.

But that's not what happened. Some hate it, but were destined to from the get-go.

VERY few people like the tail. MANY people like the rest of the livery and new brand.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: I380North
Posted 2013-03-28 15:51:25 and read 19669 times.

I think most miss the point that the rebranded AA wants to be simply known as AMERICAN. That's powerful. Slapping the old tired A+eagle+A on the tail defeats the rebrand purpose. I believe DP was fully consulted on the new livery. I am in the camp that this livery will grow on you. It has already grown on me. I predict it shall become timeless.

Regarding the OP, do you really believe your reference blog. Take a look at this: http://skift.com/2013/03/19/boeing-o...to-land-15-6-million-ryanair-deal/

I do not believe a blog that can't proof read their post. if you believe FR paid Boeing $15.6 M for 175 B737 and DP will revisit the livery, then I have an ocean property in NE that I want to sell you.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Mcoov
Posted 2013-03-28 16:00:15 and read 19424 times.

If AA is really getting rid of the new paint (and I really hope they are), they should modify TWA's last livery and use that. THAT was one slick paint job.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: TheSultanOfWing
Posted 2013-03-28 16:29:12 and read 18950 times.

I saw the tail for the 1st time between all the Copa planes at PTY the other day!
Not as bad as some of you seem to think!

Pretty American though.....

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Independence76
Posted 2013-03-28 16:40:55 and read 18754 times.

Quoting I380North (Reply 62):
I believe DP was fully consulted on the new livery.

100% incorrect.

It has been stated numerous times by Tom Horton that US Airways had absolutely no part in the developments between AA and FutureBrand during the design process.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: A36001
Posted 2013-03-28 16:48:59 and read 18651 times.

The new livery is a class act IMO. It's bright, clean very modern and display's national pride through having your beautiful flag on the most prominent part of the aircraft. To me, nothing says America more than seeing the Stars and Stripes! Hell even I as an Australian had national pride on your behalf when I flew into LAX and saw your flag for the first time! And being an airline named American, maybe, just maybe the Stars and Stripes should play a feature role in the branding.

There is no point is having the flag painted as is (ie: A flag) onto the tail, it has to be eye catching and bold but at the same time being recognisable as the American flag. And no one does eye catching and BOLD better than the USA.   Happy Easter..

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: displane
Posted 2013-03-28 16:49:45 and read 18637 times.

To me, sounds like the CEO is just looking at ways on how to still get his $20 mil plus in severance pay.

Wishing they at least keep the soaring eagle. Already bad enough that UA removed the tulip.  

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2013-03-28 16:55:13 and read 18521 times.

I like the new AA colors, one thing I wish they would do is pick a consistant silver. Maybe its just me, but some planes seem to sport a different version of the "silver" color. The drawings AA released a few months back depicting the 738MAX and 787 should be the silver they use on their planes today..

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 59):
I havent seen this much commotion over a piece of tail,

That depends on what you mean by "piece of tail"  

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flashmeister
Posted 2013-03-28 17:00:23 and read 18338 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 34):
Am I the only who doesn't find US's current scheme attractive?

Nope. I can't stand it. It looks like some in-house-designed Illustrator hack job from the same marketing folks that decided that the back of America West planes should look like Fred Flintstone's underwear.

Wait, that's exactly what it is. Designed in house, in a hurry. Painting over it will be a good thing.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2013-03-28 17:00:55 and read 18371 times.

People really, REALLY need to move on about this subject.

People outside the airline industry generally really like the new livery, and they are the target - not the small proportion of us who work in or follow the industry.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2013-03-28 17:10:16 and read 18217 times.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 70):
People outside the airline industry generally really like the new livery, and they are the target - not the small proportion of us who work in or follow the industry.

My sister doesn't know the first thing about airlines and her reaction to the new paint scheme?

"I'm glad American's tight chapter 11 budget allows them to pay for sh"tty new logo designers. If I were a creditor, I would be pissed!"

I am so happy this livery is going to be short-lived!!!

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-03-28 17:11:17 and read 18198 times.

There is a God! I beg of you Mr. Parker, please change yet another inept decision by AA management!

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2013-03-28 17:11:37 and read 18211 times.

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 63):

If AA is really getting rid of the new paint (and I really hope they are), they should modify TWA's last livery and use that. THAT was one slick paint job

I agree 110%. Or at least make a TW retro jet, I would love to see TW's colors on a 737.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: WROORD
Posted 2013-03-28 17:30:29 and read 17874 times.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 4):
If the livery is going to change wouldn't it make since for AA to stop repainting their aircraft in order to save money?

My point exactly.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-03-28 17:40:06 and read 17809 times.

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 52):
They should really keep the new logo. It combines the eagle, the "A", a star, the colors of the flag... It grows on me I must say...

I'm not talking about the new AA logo, I think it is fine and they can keep it. I'm talking about an obvious additional that Parker will make - an updated HERITAGE logo that goes on every aircraft...

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: AAIL86
Posted 2013-03-28 19:18:10 and read 16288 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 75):
I'm not talking about the new AA logo, I think it is fine and they can keep it. I'm talking about an obvious additional that Parker will make - an updated HERITAGE logo that goes on every aircraft...

Fine, but were are the Trans Caribbean, Air Cal, Reno Air, and TWA logos in that lineup??

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: olddominion727
Posted 2013-03-28 19:21:47 and read 16245 times.

@rj777 I could not agree more!!

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-28 19:56:04 and read 15710 times.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 70):

People outside the airline industry generally really like the new livery

..and you've taken or seen this poll where?

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 69):
I can't stand it. It looks like some in-house-designed Illustrator hack job from the same marketing folks that decided that the back of America West planes should look like Fred Flintstone's underwear.

Bingo!

Not everyone agrees on artwork. If you can draw or paint in a mediocre fashion (anything from pencil, charcoal, water or oil paintings) you certainly have an eye that rises above that of the average viewer. You know sophistication in art and design, what's simple yet elegant or clever and thoughtful and you know garbage when you see it. Those who have zero talent when it comes to visual arts are most likely ... to well, like anything that can stick to a wall. Just like music, some people have an ear that can pick out every single instrument and notes in song and others p.. a bag of cats screaming to be let out .. is what they like to bang their heads to.

From what I'm seeing most that like this new livery are younger types who actually have no appreciation or attachment to the evolving of carrier logos. They just haven't the advantage of the years to observe the process over a long period of time. They are same ones who get wind of a carrier ailing.. and say things like let 'em die.. don't help them, profit or die. Sorry, but that's more of a detached WWF attitude about the love of the industry and players.. no real dedication at all.

I personally come from the age of a proud lengthy list of US carriers... there was at one time about 12-15 good sized legacy carriers and was happy with each existing as they did. If you closely, Russia's civil aviation scene went from one dominant carrier and 1 or 2 shadow carriers to an explosive list of widebody operatprs -

Transaero - 744 743 742 773 772
Aeroflot - 77W A330 763
Orenair - 772
Vladivostok - A330
Nordwinds - 772 763
I-Fly - A330
Rossiya - 763
S7 - 763
UT-Air - 762
and a growing VIM and Ural, who will be flying widebodies soon enough.

China also went from a one state carrier to a huge list of widebody operator/competitors

..this is when I got excited about US airlines and the industry, they were growing and had character. We're now headed to where Russia and China use to be..fewer and fewer - due to 'merger mania', when everyone knows.. it is impossible to provide 'personal service (a the semblance therein)' when your company is just too big to fail. But nevertheless, one of them is going to fail, UA, DL or AA/US .. they will somehow, after all this .. find a way to destroy themselves and all the carriers they ate up getting there.

American Airlines as we know it, with it's timeless ribbon and AA/Eagle tail is the last icon of the best era in American commercial aviation, and perhaps that's what i hate see to disappear. But I know one thing for certain... you can't stop change. I accept that... but some change can be pretty tasteless and bad or or not so good but grow on you..or it can be great ..right off the bat. BUT IMHO, this design in part (the tail) was of the worst kind. No sophistication whatsoever and as someone who is good with a pencil, okay with water color and a bit of an eye for art.. this is just downright pathetic - for the last great giant.

I must admit, I've even lost a great deal of enthusiasm of growing my vast video archive and desire to shoot due to all that has disappeared. But I must admit, were I a young Russian aviation enthusiast... I'd be pulling for the continued growth of my nations' carriers, it must be exciting, versus the continued shrinkage we are seeing here in the US. There's just nothing exciting about it. And how could it possibly get worse? ...making what remains, too ugly to look at.

BN747

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-28 20:18:31 and read 15460 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 45):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 34):
Am I the only who doesn't find US's current scheme attractive?

I've never really understood the love for it. It's not bad, but it's really quite bland.
Quoting flashmeister (Reply 69):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 34):
Am I the only who doesn't find US's current scheme attractive?

Nope. I can't stand it. It looks like some in-house-designed Illustrator hack job from the same marketing folks that decided that the back of America West planes should look like Fred Flintstone's underwear.

Wait, that's exactly what it is. Designed in house, in a hurry. Painting over it will be a good thing.

Lol thanks, glad I'm not the only one, it does indeed look cheaply done, the only element I like is the flag, which was incidentally carried over from the old livery.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 78):
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 70):

People outside the airline industry generally really like the new livery

..and you've taken or seen this poll where?
http://simpliflying.com/2013/a-stati...t-of-american-airlines-rebranding/

Pretty much the closest thing we're ever going to get to a comprehensive poll on AA's re-brand.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 78):
Quoting flashmeister (Reply 69):
I can't stand it. It looks like some in-house-designed Illustrator hack job from the same marketing folks that decided that the back of America West planes should look like Fred Flintstone's underwear.

Bingo!

He's talking about US Airways' current livery, which was designed in-house.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: iFlyLOTs
Posted 2013-03-28 20:29:30 and read 15299 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 78):
Bingo!

I just want to make sure, you know he was talking about the US livery, correct?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 78):
From what I'm seeing most that like this new livery are younger types who actually have no appreciation or attachment to the evolving of carrier logos. They just haven't the advantage of the years to observe the process over a long period of time.

I love the new logo. And while yes, I am the "younger type" I also loved the old logo, it really was timeless, but it was time for an update. Most carriers rebranded after their bankruptcies, and I don't see what was wrong with American doing the same. They were going to have to update the livery, you can't have polished metal on a plastic plane, and I think what they came out with is great!

And while you may believe that because I'm younger I have no appreciation for the old airlines, I'm just going to put this out there, I thought it was blasphemy when United got rid of the tulip, I still think that the southwest planes looked better with their tan paint jobs, I think the 90s Delta scheme was their best, I wish ATA was still around because I loved going with my dad and watching their birds fly into and out of MDW. But things change and unfortunately my generation doesn't care about the "timeless" look. They want it modern, and that's what they got with the new scheme.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: exFWAOONW
Posted 2013-03-28 20:39:46 and read 15195 times.

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 59):
I havent seen this much commotion over a piece of tail, since,

the Pamela Anderson sex tape???

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2013-03-28 20:57:37 and read 14987 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 78):
..and you've taken or seen this poll where?

And you have taken or seen this poll that proves otherwise where exactly?

Oh, you dont have one?

Reading "airline / aviation" forums, the reaction tends to be negative.

Reading anything else, the reactions seems rather positive.

Just my observation. American have spent quite a bit of money on this, and whether you like it or not, the aircraft livery is NOT going to stop anyone booking with them, especially when the other elements of the branding such as website etc etc are all generally so pleasing to the eye.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-28 21:11:06 and read 14866 times.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 80):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 78):
Bingo!

I just want to make sure, you know he was talking about the US livery, correct?

Actually, I didn't.. but I'm safe in that I stated up (earlier post) that US Airways never met an ugly livery didn't like.
The previous dark blue was their best livery ever! This current look...not quite as bad as 'new AA'..but in that ballpark.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 80):
I thought it was blasphemy when United got rid of the tulip,

Agreed.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 80):
But things change and unfortunately my generation doesn't care about the "timeless" look.

Yes, I was of the FF (fast forward) mindset at your age too.. liked rapid updates.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 80):
They want it modern, and that's what they got with the new scheme.

And 'modern' doesn't always ..necessarily mean good. For example...

Old JAL vs New JAL
Old Iran Air vs New Iran Air
Avianca to Summa and back to the Avianca look...
New Royal Brunei vs Old RB
Old Iberia vs New Iberia (IB put the brakes on that one... hopeful like AA is about to do)

..modern doesn't always mean better...

BN747

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Polaris
Posted 2013-03-28 21:14:20 and read 14820 times.

Good! It is ugh-lee!

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-28 21:18:24 and read 14779 times.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 82):
Reading anything else, the reactions seems rather positive.

It took until well into the third page of results on Google to find an article that didn't have some relation to aviation media, but here was the first one from a non-aviation site or writer:

«http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2013/01/analyzing-american-airlines-disastrous-redesign»

(a.net won't auto-format the URL for some reason)

Something Lousy in the Air: Analyzing American Airlines’ Disastrous Redesign

Quote:
The airline just unveiled a new design—oops, sorry, I meant to say “new branding”—that replaces the Vignellis’ classic design with a tiresome, rather trite abstraction of the American flag on the tail, the American name in gargantuan gray letters on the fuselage, and a bizarre new logo that abstracts the eagle into nothing more than a disembodied, curving white beak that looks like it is ripping into a field of blue and red.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-28 21:46:46 and read 14490 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 85):
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 82):
Reading anything else, the reactions seems rather positive.

It took until well into the third page of results on Google to find an article that didn't have some relation to aviation media, but here was the first one from a non-aviation site or writer:

What exactly did you type in for the search? I searched "American Airlines rebrand" with several non-aviation sites being on the first page, searching "new American Airlines livery", I found several on the first and second pages.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-28 21:55:34 and read 14465 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 86):
What exactly did you type in for the search?

"AA livery change"

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyfree727
Posted 2013-03-28 21:55:56 and read 14437 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 71):
My sister doesn't know the first thing about airlines and her reaction to the new paint scheme?

"I'm glad American's tight chapter 11 budget allows them to pay for sh"tty new logo designers. If I were a creditor, I would be pissed!"

However, come travel time, I bet she, along with millions others, is only looking for price and could care less about a color scheme.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 81):
Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 59):
I havent seen this much commotion over a piece of tail, since,

the Pamela Anderson sex tape???

For some odd reason, I have a feeling the majority of A.netters are more interested in AA's tail.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 82):
Reading "airline / aviation" forums, the reaction tends to be negative.

That seems to be true with almost ANY topic on here.. It if ain't YOUR favorite airline and something YOU agree with, then its the most stupidest thing ever.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 82):
whether you like it or not, the aircraft livery is NOT going to stop anyone booking with them

Exactly.. Paint it "invisible" and if the price were right...
price sensitive customers click "cheapest fare" and thats pretty much all they care about.

AA ORD

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flybyguy
Posted 2013-03-28 22:45:53 and read 14086 times.

Quoting Noise (Reply 28):
The US Airways scheme is classy and beautiful.

You've got to be kidding me. The old 2000 scheme was much more classy than the one US is flying around with today. LCC scheme for an LCC oriented airline.

I believe the current scheme from American is inspired by an Art Deco aesthetic and is unique. No one complains when BA places the British flag on the tails of its planes... nope it's artistic and "tasteful". But when the American flag is displayed on one of our planes it's obscene. I think that people are more repulsed by the display of patriotism than the artistic expression exhibited in the livery.

I do believe Doug Parker hasn't seen the numbers yet regarding the cost to repaint each airplane in the combined fleet. That's why he's non-committal. It has absolutely nothing to do with the "beauty" "ugliness" of each respective fleet. Parker is just going to choose the cheapest way to promote the brand on a combined fleet of nearly 900 airplanes.

Personally I think the re-branding is probably here to stay (at least for the short term) because so much money has been spent revamping the website, paying consultants and testing the new brand. Parker would have to essentially start again if he wanted an new livery... not smart when there is so much cost involved in integrating more important things like employees, fleets, reservations systems etc.

He has a new livery ready for the paint shop handed to him on a silver platter... he'd be a fool not to take it. The question really is, is the paint job affordable?

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2013-03-28 22:54:51 and read 14025 times.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 89):
I believe the current scheme from American is inspired by an Art Deco aesthetic and is unique. No one complains when BA places the British flag on the tails of its planes... nope it's artistic and "tasteful". But when the American flag is displayed on one of our planes it's obscene. I think that people are more repulsed by the display of patriotism than the artistic expression exhibited in the livery.

What a bunch of crap. The problem is not that AA has a flag on it s tail (heck US does too), the problem is that AA's tail fail is extremely poorly executed, garish, and just plain ugly representation of the US flag. That is why it needs to go...

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-28 22:57:00 and read 13996 times.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 89):
I think that people are more repulsed by the display of patriotism than the artistic expression exhibited in the livery.

No it's about taste and style.

An American Flag on anything doesn't make it patriotic.


The UJ could have easily been painted as ugly as AA's new tail...but it wasn't (at least the final design was not).

Hell, give some of the A.net fantasy designers 1% of what AA paid for that unmitigated disaster and I bet half them will come up with a better Flag-based design. I know I could.

BN747

[Edited 2013-03-28 23:08:49]

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-28 23:55:49 and read 13581 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 91):
1% of what AA paid for that unmitigated disaster

Let's cut the dramatics, seriously. "Unmitigated disaster"? Far from it. You may vehemently not like the new livery, but it's far far from an "unmitigated disaster".

Quoting BN747 (Reply 91):
I know I could.

Doubtful unless you have a background in branding. I've seen some of the proposals put forth by some on a.net, some are ok, but most are completely disconnected with any sort of identity and message associated with American's brand and are simply fanciful and wishful creations.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: RedTailDTW
Posted 2013-03-28 23:58:15 and read 13542 times.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 89):
The old 2000 scheme was much more classy than the one US is flying around with today.

They probably would have kept that scheme if it weren't for the fact that, at the time, America West's hubs were in Phoenix and Las Vegas. In order to keep the aircraft cool in the hot climate, they had to get rid of the navy blue and change it to white.

They also used that opportunity to incorporate a few America West details, notably the grey swoosh.

Honestly I think it looks alot better than some airlines (United especially)


- Mason

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-29 00:36:31 and read 13349 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 92):

Let's cut the dramatics, seriously. "Unmitigated disaster"? Far from it. You may vehemently not like the new livery, but it's far far from an "unmitigated disaster"

No..really, it is.

When a CEO actually 'verbalizes' concern... something has gone seriously wrong.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 92):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 91):
I know I could.

Doubtful unless you have a background in branding.

I am indeed a bit of artist.. are you? Then check your arrogance... unless you are too.

Art, artwork is art ...no matter what spinoff variation form it takes.

It's a matter of incorporating a given imagine (branding) into a creative art design piece.
Your comment on some A.netters designs 'being ok' is an endorsement of sorts of non-branding professionals (don't hold back extending any real credit - some of these guys could actually make a living out of if they chose to do so).

BN747

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-29 01:38:22 and read 13003 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 94):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 92):

Let's cut the dramatics, seriously. "Unmitigated disaster"? Far from it. You may vehemently not like the new livery, but it's far far from an "unmitigated disaster"

No..really, it is.

According to who? Do you have data or sources to back that up other than grumblings on a.net?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 94):
When a CEO actually 'verbalizes' concern... something has gone seriously wrong.

Find me one negative thing Doug Parker has said about the livery.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 94):
I am indeed a bit of artist

Art does not equal branding, indeed one needs a background in art for the design aspect of branding but one also needs to understand consumer messaging and integrated communications which form the brand.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 94):
are you? Then check your arrogance... unless you are too.

I do work in marketing/branding, not in the design area, but we are necessarily trained to have an eye for analyzing design and creative elements which present compelling branding.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 94):
It's a matter of incorporating a given imagine (branding) into a creative art design piece.

A lot more goes into brand design than that.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 94):
Your comment on some A.netters designs 'being ok' is an endorsement of sorts of non-branding professionals

Sure, some were able to effectively capture the elements that make up the AA brand, but none that I saw did so in a way that was more compelling than the one they went with.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: dtw757
Posted 2013-03-29 06:05:11 and read 11251 times.

This all cracks me up. I remember when Northwest took their last livery and all the hate that was spewed on here about how god awful it was. Comments like "NWA" omg that's terrible it's like a rap group and "The arrow is pointing northeast on the right side of the plane" and countless other negative remarks toward that livery. In the end Northwest had pretty much painted all the mainline fleet and a good portion of the regional fleet in the 2003 livery. Now Northwest is no more but I am sure there are folks who would love to see the red tails in the air again.

There are a lot of memories associated with the old AA livery both good and bad. The new livery is a fresh start. Unless American's business were to fall significantly due to a public outcry over this new livery and branding; you're going to be seeing a lot more of it in the skies all around the world for the next 10+ years.

I for one am looking forward to my first flight on the "new" American next week when I fly the 77W from DFW-LHR. For it's inside these new aircraft where the passengers ride that's part of what makes or breaks an airline.

The passenger just wants great service from curb to curb. They want a good price on their ticket, they want to arrive at their destination on time with their luggage, and most importantly they don't want to be treated poorly. If there are some nice amenities on the aircraft then that's a bonus for them. Most of the flying public doesn't even know what type of equipment they are flying on and don't care and certainly could care less about the tail. They aren't buying the plane, they are just buying a seat on it. It's airline enthusiasts who care about the livery and tail, not the bulk of the passengers.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-03-29 06:31:16 and read 11177 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 94):
No..really, it is.

When a CEO actually 'verbalizes' concern... something has gone seriously wrong.

Go back and read what Parker said. He doesn't verbalize concern, he basically said he had no clue what they were going to do with the livery and that they have an opportunity to change it if they are so inclined. I agree with him, you are being very over dramatic here.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 95):
Find me one negative thing Doug Parker has said about the livery.

I just read through his quote in that article twice and it doesn't sound critical to me.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-29 08:10:01 and read 10976 times.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 97):

Go back and read what Parker said. He doesn't verbalize concern, he basically said he had no clue what they were going to do with the livery and that they have an opportunity to change it if they are so inclined. I agree with him, you are being very over dramatic here.

"American Airlines shouldn’t let the paint dry on that new livery design: Incoming American CEO Doug Parker, who currently heads US Airways, told employees ...

“Maybe we need to do something slightly different than that, it may be something dramatically different than that. I really don’t know the answer Steve.."

Do any of you know how to 'read' CEO political-speak?

No CEO is going to come right and say 'I don't like it'.. that is an outright condemnation of the previous CEO and volley fired in a tiff war - when none needs to exist. At this point all public comments are super-sensitive as not to offend and press ahead with the merger on the smoothest terms possible.

Of all the mergers that have a occurred in US airline history, none of you can find a CEO addressing a 'new livery' in such negative terms as ' possible dismissal'. His comments are in no way an 'embracing endorsement'. Just the exact opposite. Politically speaking... he's saying in the kindest terms possible.. there is a problem here. I'm not sure if you two are too young understand what is being said when people of this stature make such comments or what.. but this is along those lines where some Dept. Head says to you 'well, we'll have to see what happens when the project is completed..." -- what he is saying and you are not hearing it is - you've just been handed your hat... you have been fired! Today is exactly how such messages are delivered ..in the kindest of subtleties..

What? Did you guys really expect Parker to come right and say it blows??? He's not going come right out an antagonize any of the AA team responsible for it in such a brazen manner! Old school CEO ex-AA chief Bob Crandall would and dip it in a couple extra expletives! But in today's political speak... that's exactly what Parker is saying and I seriously doubt he really cares one way or the other, BUT his addressing it in the above terms has to be based on a wave of negative feedback.. far too much to ignore for sake of the AA brand.

Disagree as much as you like... but watch what happens next. Like I said, a tell tale sign will be an easing back in paint schedules. it will be very noticeable. And somewhere, in the most secretive fashion...a new design team is working around the clock to come up with something a bit less controversial. With two OneWorld carriers just recently abandoning their newly approved branding...(IB & JAL) this harbinger does not bode well for the new AA look, something is definitely up.

BN747

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-03-29 08:23:24 and read 10884 times.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 76):
Fine, but were are the Trans Caribbean, Air Cal, Reno Air, and TWA logos in that lineup??

What are you talking about? That is the current US Airways heritage logo that is on every aircraft. What I was saying is that this will likely be updated once Parker is in control of AA.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-03-29 08:43:52 and read 10802 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
"American Airlines shouldn’t let the paint dry on that new livery design: Incoming American CEO Doug Parker, who currently heads US Airways, told employees ...

“Maybe we need to do something slightly different than that, it may be something dramatically different than that. I really don’t know the answer Steve.."

Do any of you know how to 'read' CEO political-speak?

Of course, you conveniently took that out of context and didn't include the rest of what he said....

"“There’s no plan yet. That’s one of these integration issues we need to work through and I really don’t know what the answer to this is because right now. Again, two separate companies. They are painting airplanes in that scheme that they rolled out, and, you know, when it comes time where we actually have one airline, we should decide whether or not we want to keep…"

"I really don’t have the answers. It may be just to keep painting them the way American’s painting them."

Yeah, great conspiracy theory you've got going there. You're going to be sorely disappointed when US begins painting their planes in the same livery.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
Disagree as much as you like... but watch what happens next. Like I said, a tell tale sign will be an easing back in paint schedules. it will be very noticeable. And somewhere, in the most secretive fashion...a new design team is working around the clock to come up with something a bit less controversial. With two OneWorld carriers just recently abandoning their newly approved branding...(IB & JAL) this harbinger does not bode well for the new AA look, something is definitely up.

How's that tin foil hat fitting you?

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-29 09:50:25 and read 10593 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
His comments are in no way an 'embracing endorsement'.

If you'd like, I could actually show you quotes where Doug Parker in fact praises the new AA livery.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Mcoov
Posted 2013-03-29 09:58:40 and read 10654 times.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 89):
I believe the current scheme from American is inspired by an Art Deco aesthetic and is unique.

Not even close.
http://www.designboom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/futurebrand_american_airlines_rebrand_00.jpg

The 1934 one is Art Deco. I don't know what to call the current one.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2013-03-29 10:25:39 and read 10516 times.

If I were going to combine the two logos, I would use one of the old AA eagles and have it grasping the US stylized flag with its claws. The Eagle flies the flag. Very appropriate...

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: MWHCVT
Posted 2013-03-29 10:49:20 and read 10448 times.

Having sat and read through this thread it's all a little sad, the guy said nothing to suggest that the new livery was to go, no indication at all really, the OP and put the most positive spin on the comments made to suit his agenda, for me I find the new livery, clean, crisp and rather appealing, it should be easier on maintenance with no longer a need to polish bare metal, plus you have to remember that aircraft coming into the fleet would have to be painted anyway, it would be nice to see a more metallic look to the bases silver but maybe that could be done

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 103):
old AA eagles and have it grasping the US stylized flag with its claws

Sorry but that sounds awful an suggestion and portrays an image of AA planning to devour US not very good at all...

[Edited 2013-03-29 10:49:56]

[Edited 2013-03-29 10:50:29]

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: NYCAAer
Posted 2013-03-29 11:13:10 and read 10357 times.

I, for one, hate to see millions of dollars spent on yet another rebrand, which could be spent on other things and fixing the real issues at the airline, such as improving customer service. If the tail has to be changed, just put an enlarged version of the Flight Symbol on the tail and call it a day. I think most people are happy with the rebranding, it's just the tail that creates controversy and debate.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-03-29 11:21:51 and read 10333 times.

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 102):
The 1934 one is Art Deco. I don't know what to call the current one.

Euro Post Modern.

Or simply abstract stylized symbolism?

I mean, if you didn't KNOW that AA had an eagle for so long, there is no way you would look at that and think... EAGLE! You wouldn't know what it was. That's not good design. That's over-clever design. That's a jaded designer. A beak shape does not a bird make.

Reminds one of the JAL livery before they returned to the crane that looks like a crane. They took the wrong part of the old design, the circle, and ran with that. Rising, sun, whatever, but JAL was always the crane. And only a few years after painting away the last crane, lo and behold, they brought it back.

AA should cut it's losses and create an actual eagle logo now, rather than doing it in a few years. It can still be stylized. but somehow "feather" in a shadowy eagle behind that beak.

And same for the tail. Though more clearly an American flag than the logo is an eagle, it's still poorly executed.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-29 11:23:13 and read 10406 times.

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 105):
I, for one, hate to see millions of dollars spent on yet another rebrand, which could be spent on other things

Not to mention the confusion for customers.

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 105):
it's just the tail that creates controversy and debate.

...as did the Eiffel Tower once upon a time.

Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 104):
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 103):
old AA eagles and have it grasping the US stylized flag with its claws

Sorry but that sounds awful an suggestion and portrays an image of AA planning to devour US not very good at all...

   Doesn't sound like what represents AA at all.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 107):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 101):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
His comments are in no way an 'embracing endorsement'.

If you'd like, I could actually show you quotes where Doug Parker in fact praises the new AA livery.

If you could, I'd like to see them for contrast sake.. it may give complete a picture of where he really stands when viewed against his most recent comments.
http://www.brandchannel.com/home/pos...rlines-New-Logo-Livery-011713.aspx

Quote:
US Airways CEO Doug Parker — who has said that the AA name would be kept should the airlines merge — stated: "We applaud our friends at American as the new brand elements and livery mark the culmination of a significant amount of work and coordination, and clearly those efforts have produced a compelling result."



I also found another article of interest concerning how well received the new branding was by the general public:
http://www.tnooz.com/2013/02/22/news...l-media-gains-from-its-rebranding/

[Edited 2013-03-29 11:33:18]

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-29 11:33:45 and read 10286 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 106):
Quoting Mcoov (Reply 102):
The 1934 one is Art Deco. I don't know what to call the current one.

Euro Post Modern.

I'm starting to call it 'Early Century', like Mid-Century was used to describe the 1950s/early 60s. It's that whole negative space thing going on (the 'flight symbol' is supposed to have us envision both an eagle and the letter A, IIRC).

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-03-29 11:59:39 and read 10206 times.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 89):
No one complains when BA places the British flag on the tails of its planes... nope it's artistic and "tasteful". But when the American flag is displayed on one of our planes it's obscene. I think that people are more repulsed by the display of patriotism than the artistic expression exhibited in the livery.

Not at all. It is all about whether it is done in an attractive manner or not.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 90):
What a bunch of crap. The problem is not that AA has a flag on it s tail (heck US does too), the problem is that AA's tail fail is extremely poorly executed, garish, and just plain ugly representation of the US flag. That is why it needs to go...

Exactly.

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 96):
This all cracks me up. I remember when Northwest took their last livery and all the hate that was spewed on here about how god awful it was. Comments like "NWA" omg that's terrible it's like a rap group and "The arrow is pointing northeast on the right side of the plane" and countless other negative remarks toward that livery

I think NWA's final livery was one of the best airline liveries ever, though it is true that the letters "nwa" did at first remind people of a rap group with that name and caused some concern even within Northwest. Does not change the fact it was a beautfiul livery.

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-03-29 12:24:18 and read 10146 times.

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 105):
I, for one, hate to see millions of dollars spent on yet another rebrand, which could be spent on other things and fixing the real issues at the airline, such as improving customer service. If the tail has to be changed, just put an enlarged version of the Flight Symbol on the tail and call it a day. I think most people are happy with the rebranding, it's just the tail that creates controversy and debate.

I don't think we are looking on a complete rebrand at all. I think the logo and much of the new look stays. The tail goes. The design of it will probably be done in house, like US did after the HP merger, and call it good. No sense in spending millions with some lame brand designer that has some "BS" reasoning why each curve of the logo could mean something...when most people just see a slash with a bent over section. :-P

Topic: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-03-29 13:22:30 and read 10000 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 109):
I'm starting to call it 'Early Century', like Mid-Century was used to describe the 1950s/early 60s. It's that whole negative space thing going on (the 'flight symbol' is supposed to have us envision both an eagle and the letter A, IIRC).

Negative space works if you complete the image. 1/2 an A and 1/4 of an eagle only work if you already know it's supposed to be an A and an Eagle...

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-03-29 14:07:46 and read 9906 times.

It's slowly growing on me, actually (and i'm shocked to say this myself.) Unlike the UA livery which will always be crap.

My biggest problem is the winglets. Why are they blank?

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-29 15:54:06 and read 9723 times.

The second link wasn't Parker but PR Spin.


But you have Parker going from this...

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 107):
"We applaud our friends at American as the new brand elements and livery mark the culmination of a significant amount of work and coordination, and clearly those efforts have produced a compelling result."

...to this...

Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
"American Airlines shouldn’t let the paint dry on that new livery design: Incoming American CEO Doug Parker, who currently heads US Airways, told employees ...

“Maybe we need to do something slightly different than that, it may be something dramatically different than that. I really don’t know the answer Steve.."

...the most recent statements express 'doubt' in the most polite terms, no one can deny that..

Quoting 777STL (Reply 100):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
Disagree as much as you like... but watch what happens next. Like I said, a tell tale sign will be an easing back in paint schedules. it will be very noticeable. And somewhere, in the most secretive fashion...a new design team is working around the clock to come up with something a bit less controversial. With two OneWorld carriers just recently abandoning their newly approved branding...(IB & JAL) this harbinger does not bode well for the new AA look, something is definitely up.

How's that tin foil hat fitting you?

About as snug as your porcelain one... two MAJOR carriers back tracking on liveries in a relatively short span is something a only fool would gaff off... American is very aware of what it's partners do and don't do. They indeed noticed both careers reversing gears on liveries and they took note on why they did it. Public uproar.. was Parker influenced by similar AA negative comments? We'll find out soon enough. These carriers follow each others doings more closely than some A.net 'expert' opinions.

BN747

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ER757
Posted 2013-03-29 15:58:19 and read 9696 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 112):
My biggest problem is the winglets. Why are they blank?

agreed - the logo should be on there if not a miniature version of the tail scheme. I hate blank winglets (I'm talking to you LH, AF, BA)

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2013-03-29 15:59:00 and read 9693 times.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 3):
I think they should take the soaring eagle and put it on the tail. (As well as the winglets)

I thought that right away, and knew I wasn't alone.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-03-29 16:06:28 and read 9681 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
With two OneWorld carriers just recently abandoning their newly approved branding...(IB & JAL)

JAL arc of sun livery was 9 years old and entire fleet and subsdiaries had been painted in it.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-29 16:47:15 and read 9583 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 116):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 98):
With two OneWorld carriers just recently abandoning their newly approved branding...(IB & JAL)

JAL arc of sun livery was 9 years old and entire fleet and subsdiaries had been painted in it.

Who's talking about a sun?

The great Crane was retired...and brought back because it's popularity and anger over it's removal in the 1st place!

BN747

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-03-29 17:10:53 and read 9529 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 57):
No? ... name any other better known, better identified US carrier worldwide? Even identified in countries it does not serve...

United? No chance.

Delta? Not even close.

...let's hear it then?

It is undisputedly ... American Airlines.

Look up the definition of 'premier'. Nowhere does it say 'better known, better identified'!
It DOES say 'first'! Let's compare founding date...United 1930...American 1926...Delta......(wait for it)....1924.
It's also defined as 'better quality'....I'll say it's Delta and you'll say it's American, but you'll be the one most laughed at.

American, the premier airline? THAT'S disputable


BTW, your wording should be 'indisputably'.  

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-03-29 17:25:38 and read 9474 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 117):

dosent RECENTLY abandoning their NEWLY approved liveries, suggest that you're referring to arc of the sun scheme, which isn't that new, or it could even refer to the 2011 revival of the crane.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-03-29 18:19:44 and read 9353 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 119):
dosent RECENTLY abandoning their NEWLY approved liveries, suggest that you're referring to arc of the sun scheme, which isn't that new, or it could even refer to the 2011 revival of the crane.

They had finally finished repainting and the last crane was gone in 2008 only to return 3 years later. That's pretty short for a livery when you consider it basically a reversal, not a progression.

It was likely a message to the public, that we lost focus on you, Japan, and are trying to fix things and make JAL great again by returning to the logo that you associated with JAL for decades.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-03-29 18:33:42 and read 9319 times.

but the livery had been in service nine years and that's not recent or new.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-29 19:31:42 and read 9217 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):
The second link wasn't Parker but PR Spin.

Didn't say that it was Parker, and it's definitely not PR spin, it's simply an article that corroborates data that I posted a link to previously in this thread, you should look at it.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):
...the most recent statements express 'doubt' in the most polite terms, no one can deny that..

He also said the new livery may very well stay the same, you're selectively quoting.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-29 19:51:50 and read 9187 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 122):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):
...the most recent statements express 'doubt' in the most polite terms, no one can deny that..

He also said the new livery may very well stay the same, you're selectively quoting.

No, what I'm trying explain to you is what a CEO is signaling.

Were this not an issue, he'd have no further comment on the matter other than this.." the newly released released AA livery is here to stay"

..that is it!

But he did not, he addressed some concerns that seems to have reached a some deep sensitivities and is reacting. True, he did say 'it might' be retained... but again, that's political speak. He would have been emphatic as in my wording above.. were there no doubt or to remove all doubts about this livery.

I'm not selectively quoting, I've laid out of timeline of how he went from 'glowing endorsement' to 'there may be a change coming up'.. trust me, he's seriously weighing his next move.

He doesn't want go thru this...

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 120):
They had finally finished repainting and the last crane was gone in 2008 only to return 3 years later. That's pretty short for a livery when you consider it basically a reversal, not a progression.

...to do what JAL did, in this country would be a public relations disaster. That (plus a slew of complaints) is exactly why he brought all this up in the 1st place.

BN747

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-03-29 23:44:19 and read 8914 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 123):
But he did not, he addressed some concerns that seems to have reached a some deep sensitivities and is reacting.

He was responding to a question asked by an employee, your theory would have much more weight if Parker had brought the topic up on his own, unprovoked, but he did not, he gave a diplomatic answer to a question he obviously didn't know the answer to. Frankly I wouldn't have expected any different as he's still trying to get the merger to move forward and he probably hasn't seen the numbers as to the costs of repainting vs. redesigning...etc.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 123):
That (plus a slew of complaints) is exactly why he brought all this up in the 1st place.

He didn't bring it up though, an employee did.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 123):
I'm not selectively quoting, I've laid out of timeline of how he went from 'glowing endorsement' to 'there may be a change coming up'

That's exactly what you're doing because he precisely didn't say 'there may be a change coming up', he said (and I'll directly quote for you):

Quote:
I really don’t have the answers. It may be just to keep painting them the way American’s painting them. Maybe we need to do something slightly different than that, it may be something dramatically different than that. I really don’t know the answer Steve."



Simply sounds like a CEO's answer to a question he legally and fiscally couldn't answer to either way.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-03-30 00:21:34 and read 8885 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 124):
Simply sounds like a CEO's answer to a question he legally and fiscally couldn't answer to either way.

  

And it's been selectively jumped on by those that dislike the new scheme. I think they're going to be very disappointed in the final outcome.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ogre727
Posted 2013-03-30 09:50:32 and read 8455 times.

I am amazed by people not being able to get over the new livery. I actually love it. But dont care much about American Airlines as for me, the problem is the service, both in the air and in the ground... so yes... we can spend hours talking about the livery (one that is likely to stay too), but...

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: Antoniemey
Posted 2013-03-31 04:37:03 and read 7821 times.

Quoting SEA (Reply 11):
I think the problem is not the livery, it's a.nutters

Can we get an amen?!

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 14):
Get rid of it. It's hideous - a crass, in your face, tasteless design that lacks any kind of class or subtlety.

I kind of like it.

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 35):
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution

So, your solution is to take a negative space log and plaster it all over the plane, truncated so that it not only spills off the edge of the canvas, but disrupts its own, pre-existing negative space aesthetic? And I thought the truncated widget was bad...

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 49):
Have you actually seen the livery in person?

I have.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 49):
It is hideous

Nope. Perhaps it could stand a tweak or two, but in all but the worst lighting it stands out against every other plane parked nearby and looks quite nice.

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 59):
As I predicted when the new livery was announced, one thing was for sure.. 50% would love it, 50% would hate it..

Yep, that's about right.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 61):
VERY few people like the tail.

No, very few people HERE like the tail.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 78):
From what I'm seeing most that like this new livery are younger types who actually have no appreciation or attachment to the evolving of carrier logos.

I've grown up in the airline industry and really love some long-gone designs. I like this one, too. But, then, I'm just a single data point.

Here's a few more data points for you. I work on the ramp (not for AA, mind you), and the straw poll I've taken of my coworkers indicates overall approval of the new livery. This from the people who see planes all day every day.

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 102):
I don't know what to call the current one.

Modern or post modern, probably.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 106):
Euro Post Modern.

Yeah, that works.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 106):
And same for the tail. Though more clearly an American flag than the logo is an eagle, it's still poorly executed.

I think the simple step of eliminating the white lines from the blue field would do wonders.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 112):
My biggest problem is the winglets. Why are they blank?

A very good question.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-31 08:42:34 and read 7678 times.

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 130):
Here's a few more data points for you. I work on the ramp (not for AA, mind you), and the straw poll I've taken of my coworkers indicates overall approval of the new livery. This from the people who see planes all day every day.

Which airport? Are you at DFW? ORD? JFK?... because a sampling of some long-time AA and veteran-AA folks (working in other airport duties), is not good.
Some are so incensed, it's best that you do not discuss it in their presence! ..I thought I had issues with it .. you haven't seen rage til you get near these people combined with this subject.

BN747

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-03-31 09:03:13 and read 7625 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 131):
Which airport? Are you at DFW? ORD? JFK?... because a sampling of some long-time AA and veteran-AA folks (working in other airport duties), is not good.Some are so incensed, it's best that you do not discuss it in their presence! ..I thought I had issues with it .. you haven't seen rage til you get near these people combined with this subject.

This industry has way too much drama.

-Dave

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-03-31 09:09:24 and read 7591 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 131):
because a sampling of some long-time AA and veteran-AA folks (working in other airport duties), is not good.

Fact or opinion? If not opinion, you'll be able to provide a link to the survey that supports your claim, no?

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-03-31 12:25:34 and read 7432 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 132):

This industry has way too much drama.

..like all industries that having an 'attention element.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 133):

Fact or opinion? If not opinion, you'll be able to provide a link to the survey that supports your claim, no?

Antoinemey did just as I did... he asked some AA ppl at his airport wherever that is, I asked guys I've known for over 10 years and newbies at the 738 photo shoot .. that was the majority outcome.


So when the 1st guy ,Antoniemey calls it data here...and initiates soliciting local opinion...

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 130):


Here's a few more data points for you. I work on the ramp (not for AA, mind you), and the straw poll I've taken of my coworkers indicates overall approval of the new livery. This from the people who see planes all day every day.

..you question nothing... but when I mention having previously done the very same, you suddenly feel the need to question me and demand a link? Explain ignoring him and questioning me. Why is that?

BN747

[Edited 2013-03-31 12:46:38]

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-03-31 12:40:51 and read 7383 times.

Will it be Futurebrand again? Or will they go to...????

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-03-31 14:20:09 and read 7207 times.

I think some of us are taking this way too much to heart... Right now, no decisions have been made. While I like the livery, if Doug Parker sees it necessary to change it, he will, if not then he wont. Whatever the outcome, we'll just have to deal with it and accept it, whether we like it or not...

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: avnut43
Posted 2013-03-31 19:47:24 and read 6728 times.

The livery needs changed. The flag is to stylized and I feel will not age well. The gray fuselage reminds of a military paint scheme. It should be more silver in color.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: anfromme
Posted 2013-03-31 20:15:20 and read 6746 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 10):
Having seen it with my own eyes in Dallas recently in both good and indifferent weather, I have to say I like it.

   (Well, I saw two 77W in LHR two weeks ago, not in Dallas   )
The tail doesn't even look half as busy in real life as all the close-ups would make you believe - it actually stands out at the airport as a very recognisable US flag.

Fascinating, though, how a.net is still getting worked up about something this trivial over two months after it was announced. Time to move on.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: mats01776
Posted 2013-04-01 06:50:08 and read 6424 times.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 137):
Fascinating, though, how a.net is still getting worked up about something this trivial over two months after it was announced. Time to move on.

  

Agreed.

This is a highly subjective matter, and, without some type of objective survey data, nothing constructive will come out of discussing it, except, perhaps, as a case study of how some business decisions are made, and how some people put blinders on once taking on a position.

My completely subjective mind says, let's leave this tail design in the dustbin at a local kindergarten art class where it belongs.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-04-01 07:33:37 and read 6352 times.

Quoting avnut43 (Reply 136):
The gray fuselage reminds of a military paint scheme. It should be more silver in color.


Well it does kind of look like US Air Force commercial wing.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: KarlB737
Posted 2013-04-01 17:23:19 and read 6079 times.

Courtesy: USA Today

USAirways CEO: No Decision Yet On Branding For 'New' AA

"US Airways CEO Doug Parker, who will lead the combined carrier, said last week that no decision had been made, The Wall Street Journal reports.

"It may make sense (to keep it)," Parker is quoted by the Journal as saying Thursday at an industry conference in Washington, D.C.

The merged airline will keep the American name once the merger with US Airways is complete, but the Journal says Parker "previously avoided direct comment on whether it would keep the new branding."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...for-new-american-airlines/2041847/

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyingthe757
Posted 2013-04-01 22:59:27 and read 5729 times.

Have not read half this thread, but I hope they don't change it. It took me a while, but I like the livery now.

Managed to finally see it last weekend in person, and it looked very good. Different (well of course, it's new) but good.

Then whole brand change, and adverts out etc, seems stupid to gomandmchange it again when they already have a new brand image.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-04-02 10:39:46 and read 5432 times.

Here's the problem with shelving the new paint scheme. AA has been running a lot of commercials with the theme "We are a new American." I think there are three or four commercials, one of which shows the old AA logo and the US logo merging into the new AA logo. I just saw a new commercial yesterday on CNBC, showing the new lie-flat business class seats on the 773.

Every commercial has the 773 in the new paint scheme.

If Parker decides to ditch the new paint scheme, that will require the marketing people to revise the commercials (revise the 773 using computer generated images). If he even goes so far as to come up with a new brand, that requires a whole new marketing campaign. That takes time and money. And in the interim, something has to be done with AA jets as they come due for having their skin polished, the stripes repainted, and the decals replace, as well as the US jets. I'm not sure that you can just take US Airways off the fuselage and replace it with American in Helvitica, take the flag off the tail and up the AA with the Eagle, and replace the winglet flags with AA.com while marketing comes up with a new brand and livery.

Let's understand one thing. AA has to come up with a new paint scheme. Boeing says the 787s have to be painted. Airbus says the A319s and A321s have to be painted. I've heard that either the composites, the metal alloys, or both that Airbus uses don't lend themselves to the bare metal look that AA has used for decades.

Further, the greater use of composites can make the bare metal look become a bit strange. Since AA started taking delivery of 738s in 1999, Boeing has switched to composite cargo hatches and even a large composite component in the lower fuselage, after of the wings. I was looking at a fairly new 738 sitting at the F concourse of TPA and decided that the plane would look better in paint than bare.

I'll be honest. I didn't like the new livery at first. I was expecting a modern take on the liveries used on the retro 757 and 737. But, it's grown on me. I've seen on an Embrear and two CRJs at ORD in the last two weeks, and it is a vast improvement on the old Eagle livery.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: MSPNWA
Posted 2013-04-02 10:48:26 and read 5380 times.

It would be foolish to go back on the change now. It would cost even more money and give yourself an image of instability.

Personally I like the livery and love the branding, so I hope it stays.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: richierich
Posted 2013-04-02 10:54:33 and read 5361 times.

Quoting SEA (Reply 11):
A few months ago everyone said it was hideous and old and dated and now it's unique and timeless.

I think the problem is not the livery, it's a.nutters

No. The old livery was timeless and classic or outdated and stale, depending on who you asked. Personally I come from the camp that feels a change was due, or at least the brand needed a thoroughly modern updating. A.netters tend to have very strong feelings about AA's old livery.

However the new livery, particularly the tail, has pretty much been met with universal disbelief as to the horrendous design. It looks untidy and sophmorish to my eyes, and while the titling and smaller eagle logo may meet with some controversy, it is the only part of the livery that works. As others have pointed out, even the eagle logo contains a glaring omission: why go to the trouble of designing a logo that is the shape of the winglets only to paint the winglets white? I think that about sums it up...the new livery is neither timeless nor modern, and it just doesn't make sense.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyingthe757
Posted 2013-04-02 11:08:51 and read 5302 times.

Quoting richierich (Reply 142):
However the new livery, particularly the tail, has pretty much been met with universal disbelief as to the horrendous design

It took me a while to get used to the tail, and now I really like it. People do not like change, and the change to a livery that has been part of the airline for a LONG time, off course people will not like it at first. I would not go as far as saying it was universal disbelief??

They needed a change, and did that really well. They got the US colours in, recreated the eagle, and changed the branding. On top of that they are changing the on board experience, and will be coming out of Cpt 11 shortly. This was needed, and In my opinion they succeeded.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2013-04-02 11:13:53 and read 5320 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 140):
Here's the problem with shelving the new paint scheme. AA has been running a lot of commercials with the theme "We are a new American." I think there are three or four commercials, one of which shows the old AA logo and the US logo merging into the new AA logo. I just saw a new commercial yesterday on CNBC, showing the new lie-flat business class seats on the 773.

Every commercial has the 773 in the new paint scheme.

If Parker decides to ditch the new paint scheme, that will require the marketing people to revise the commercials (revise the 773 using computer generated images). If he even goes so far as to come up with a new brand, that requires a whole new marketing campaign.

Comment in two words: New Coke.



Coca-Cola had to do some serious back-pedaling and re-marketing after in a matter of months following their disastrous mid-1985 roll-out. So such re-marketing/branding has happened before.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 140):
Further, the greater use of composites can make the bare metal look become a bit strange. Since AA started taking delivery of 738s in 1999, Boeing has switched to composite cargo hatches and even a large composite component in the lower fuselage, after of the wings. I was looking at a fairly new 738 sitting at the F concourse of TPA and decided that the plane would look better in paint than bare.

That being the case, AA could've simply just went with either white or grey en lieu of bare metal and kept their tri-colored cheatline and classic double-A eagle logo and not changed anything else and nobody would've really cared in the grand scheme of things.

That said, I'd be curious as towards what Parker has in mind for his AA scheme.

I'm still convinced that DL's current scheme came from somebody who raided Parker's briefcase when he was trying to grab DL a few years back.   

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-04-02 12:28:07 and read 5183 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 144):
AA could've simply just went with either white or grey en lieu of bare metal and kept their tri-colored cheatline and classic double-A eagle logo and not changed anything else

  

Which is frankly what they should have done.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-04-02 12:41:44 and read 5136 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 144):
Comment in two words: New Coke.

New Coke wasn't rebranding. It was a new formula that simply didn't taste as good as old Coke. That was a disaster. The new AA livery isn't a disaster.

Think about it. There are people who think UA should have ditched the CO livery and kept the last UA livery. I know people who think UA should have gone back to the Saul Bass livery from the mid 1970s.

I know people who think that DL hasn't had a good livery since the livery that was replaced shortly after the Atlanta Olympics in 1996. I even know people who like the wavy gravy better than the current livery.

When you change a logo, brand, or paint scheme, there will always be people who hate it. Just as there will be people who think it should have been changed sooner.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 145):
Which is frankly what they should have done.

In most instances, a company in Chapter 11 or a company that has just exited wants to have a new image, showing that the problems of the past are behind them. In the airline industry, a lot of airlines have done just that, including TWA, United, Delta, Continental, US Airways.

Remember that AA started work on its new brand, when the Boeing/Airbus narrowbody order was announced in July of 2011. I would bet that memos talking about the need for a new brand may have started around HQ, when the 773 order was first announced. Considering that AA was looking at major improvements in the 773 over the 772, and that the new Airbuses and 737s were to have improved cabins over the planes being replaced, a new brand was deemed appropriate.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-04-02 12:48:58 and read 5121 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 145):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 144):
AA could've simply just went with either white or grey en lieu of bare metal and kept their tri-colored cheatline and classic double-A eagle logo and not changed anything else



Which is frankly what they should have done.

...then you'd have 50% of people moaning and complaining about how unoriginal, bland and ugly it would look in all white or gray, there's no winning with the a.nut crowd. The actual polished aluminum was an integral part of the brand and livery, when that's not possible anymore, simply adapting it like you say would look awkward and unattractive, no paint can truly imitate that polished look.

[Edited 2013-04-02 12:51:56]

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2013-04-02 13:08:38 and read 5112 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 146):
In most instances, a company in Chapter 11 or a company that has just exited wants to have a new image, showing that the problems of the past are behind them. In the airline industry, a lot of airlines have done just that, including TWA, United, Delta, Continental, US Airways.

In the case of US Airways, their logo basically stayed the same as it was when it rolled out in 1997. The main reason for the overall change in the color scheme was summed up in an earlier reply.

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 93):
They probably would have kept that scheme if it weren't for the fact that, at the time, America West's hubs were in Phoenix and Las Vegas. In order to keep the aircraft cool in the hot climate, they had to get rid of the navy blue and change it to white.

That dark blue scheme did not age too well, especially on the Boeing planes.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-04-02 13:36:35 and read 5043 times.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 135):
Fascinating, though, how a.net is still getting worked up about something this trivial over two months after it was announced. Time to move on.

I'm getting sick of these comments. It's as if the people making these comments consider themselves outsiders and not "anutters" and can cast their scorn and ridicule on the community with impunity.

If you don't like it here, why are you here?

Any time people have a strong opinion about something aviation related on a.net, some members of this community see fit to criticize them for speaking their mind, telling them to "move on" or "get over it", as if:
a. that's not a juvenile/hostile response on the face of it, and
b. there is any reason those with the opinions need to "get over" anything or "move on" in the first place.

And the timeframe for getting over it seems to get shorter and shorter. Here, this livery isn't even one quarter old, with barely a few aircraft painted, and with a merger looming that could shake up everything including the livery, and yet the elites are still telling anyone who dares dream of a better livery that it's a fait accompli and to get over it.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: richierich
Posted 2013-04-02 15:05:58 and read 4944 times.

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 143):
I would not go as far as saying it was universal disbelief??

Universal as in 100%? No. Universal as in widely viewed, yes.

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 143):
They needed a change, and did that really well. They got the US colours in, recreated the eagle, and changed the branding. On top of that they are changing the on board experience, and will be coming out of Cpt 11 shortly. This was needed, and In my opinion they succeeded.

There is no arguing taste and obviously there are few people who think this is a great livery. However, based on what I have read on this site and seen in the media, this livery was met with a giant "WTH were they thinking?" As I wrote earlier, I think it was a good time to come out with a new brand and a new product, but the execution and final result was very polarizing.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-04-03 08:00:22 and read 4591 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 148):
That dark blue scheme did not age too well, especially on the Boeing planes.

They should have adoped metrojet livery instead rather than the current look.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2013-04-03 08:34:04 and read 4543 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 151):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 148):
That dark blue scheme did not age too well, especially on the Boeing planes.

They should have adoped metrojet livery instead rather than the current look.
Guess on my part, but MetroJet was not one of US' brighter shining moments and was already destined for the chopping block as far back as the aborted merger talks w/UA circa 2000. The last thing US wanted to do at the time was give any hint or reminder of the airline witihn an airline motif.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-04-03 08:34:38 and read 4546 times.

I remember people complaining about the 3 Delta liveries since the iconic livery of the 1970s was replaced, starting in 1998. People thought the first one was too bland. The wavy gravy tail was weird, and the Eurowhite fuselage was too much of follow the crowd. The third was was too bland (again) and too much like UA, CO, and B6 (a shade of white with a predominantly blue tail).

But, it's the fact that DL went through 3 livery changes in 10 years. When you change branding frequently, it costs money, and it makes it hard for customers to identify the product.

Just last week, I saw a UA Express plane in the old battleship gray livery, along with mainline jets in the white-and-blue tulip livery. In that regard, the new UA livery still say CO to me, since CO adopted that livery nearly 20 years ago.

As I've said before, AA should have tried to come up with a modern take on the lightning bolt livery. But the new livery is high recognizable against all of the Eurowhite planes. And there is no doubt that the carrier is American, with the striped tail in red, white, and blue.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: baw716
Posted 2013-04-03 10:10:41 and read 4394 times.

The livery of the aircraft is not a trivial matter. It's all about the brand....
...and the tail has to go...it doesn't fit the rest of the livery. It's a bad 'marriage' of US Airways tail with the new AA logo.

The good news is that the fix is relatively easy. The new eagle can be put on the tail and that would reinforce the AA brand image they are building without much sacrifice.

I do agree if that is where they are headed, they may want to slow the process of painting the aircraft to lower the cost of repainting the tail. I wouldn't expect to see any of the USAirways aircraft painted (a la United) until this matter has been settled.

More to discuss I guess...
baw716

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-04-03 11:06:57 and read 4313 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 123):
No, what I'm trying explain to you is what a CEO is signaling.

No, let's make something clear here - that's what you *think* he's supposedly signaling.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 124):
He was responding to a question asked by an employee, your theory would have much more weight if Parker had brought the topic up on his own, unprovoked, but he did not, he gave a diplomatic answer to a question he obviously didn't know the answer to. Frankly I wouldn't have expected any different as he's still trying to get the merger to move forward and he probably hasn't seen the numbers as to the costs of repainting vs. redesigning...etc.


Bingo.

I don't see Parker trying to evade or be deceitful at all here. He comes off as if he honestly doesn't know. He's in the process of trying to merge a couple of billion dollar airlines, I'm sure the livery on the aircraft is rather far down on the list of things he cares about right now.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: AAIL86
Posted 2013-04-03 11:51:06 and read 4234 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 153):
As I've said before, AA should have tried to come up with a modern take on the lightning bolt livery. But the new livery is high recognizable against all of the Eurowhite planes. And there is no doubt that the carrier is American, with the striped tail in red, white, and blue.

I agree with you 100%. The lightning bolt scheme is one of the best of all time. I understand that some people don't "get" the new tail. I admit I was surprised at how unorthodox this design was myself. But AA needed to do something bold and original (I would call this "original" because its very different from how other major carriers are approaching their livery choice). Look at airlines like Finnair – who had a beautiful livery that was very appropriate for the culture they operate in. Instead of building on that, they gutted it in favor of one of the most soulless liveries we’ve seen in a long time. AA’s new livery may not be to everyone’s taste, but it was bold and original and that’s why I support it.

[Edited 2013-04-03 11:51:40]

[Edited 2013-04-03 11:52:39]

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: TC957
Posted 2013-04-03 12:15:13 and read 4191 times.

Ok, looks like we all agree to differ on AA's livery - again.... But come on all you graphic designers and armchair branding experts - let's see some of your renditions on how a future AA/US combined look should be then.
Looking forward to seeing your images.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: rikkus67
Posted 2013-04-03 14:28:54 and read 4070 times.



I think we can come to agreement, that the tail scheme in the redesign will continue to be talked about, and will be for some time.

Separately, the new marketing eagle logo and typefont are very classy. I had suggested a small tweak of the new Eagle logo, and have had a response back from AA ("passing on the suggestions to internal survey *not sure what THAT means*, thanks for your input).

The tail, while SEPARATELY stunning, just does not tie in with the rest of the branding...it's just too busy against the balance of the fuselage.

[Edited 2013-04-03 14:40:10]

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-04-03 15:10:39 and read 3992 times.

When BA first introduced their current livery, the flag on the tail went through a few revisions, correct?

I think AA could slowly clean up the livery based on customer/employee feedback without coming off as "instable" to the press. Their new livery isn't bad in message, but just execution. Smoothing up and simplifying the tail paint will do wonders.

Also, on that BA note.. remember their world tails scheme? What was the media response to them deciding to change their tail livery so quickly? The logo (speedmarque) remained the same, just as the new AA logo would remain (in a hypothetical tail makeover).

[Edited 2013-04-03 15:12:56]

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2013-04-03 15:12:40 and read 3987 times.

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 158):
the new marketing eagle logo

FWIW & for grins & giggles; if one does a Google Image Seach for Greyhound Logo, a few images of planes bearing the new AA scheme do indeed show up among the various Greyhound logo images.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: dirtyfrankd
Posted 2013-04-03 15:24:59 and read 3963 times.

I've had a chance to see the new AA livery a few times in person now and I gotta say, I think it looks pretty fantastic (including the tail).

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: questions
Posted 2013-04-03 20:08:18 and read 3744 times.

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 158):
I had suggested a small tweak of the new Eagle logo, and have had a response back from AA ("passing on the suggestions to internal survey *not sure what THAT means*, thanks for your input).

Well... what was the suggested tweak? Adding eyes?  

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: IslandRob
Posted 2013-04-03 20:18:21 and read 3710 times.

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 161):
I've had a chance to see the new AA livery a few times in person now and I gotta say, I think it looks pretty fantastic (including the tail).

Same here. I hope they keep it! -ir

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: rikkus67
Posted 2013-04-03 20:35:57 and read 3699 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 162):
Well... what was the suggested tweak? Adding eyes?

As I posted above, it is very subtle. Just adding a proper forehead to the implied new Eagle/A logo:



I need to send this to AA... the eagle now has its eyebrow back!

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-04-03 20:59:43 and read 3660 times.

Quoting A36001 (Reply 66):
To me, nothing says America more than seeing the Stars and Stripes! Hell even I as an Australian had national pride on your behalf when I flew into LAX and saw your flag for the first time! And being an airline named American, maybe, just maybe the Stars and Stripes should play a feature role in the branding.

That's the thing, though. There aren't any stars in the livery. It's all stripes. I wish they'd just use the logo on the tail. The logo has grown on me. The tail has not.

The other thing about the livery that I'm not too crazy about is the placement of the word "American" on the fuselage. I think it would look better above the windows rather than how it is now.

Look at this photo The windows look like bullet holes shot through the word "American." And if some/all of the window shades are down it looks even worse - like the paint is already chipping.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: aacun
Posted 2013-04-03 21:01:47 and read 3664 times.

Im so sick of the bashing. I love the new paint job, the only thing I would change is I would paint the plane' s body more silver like. Aside from that, I hope it stays.

Topic: RE: New AA Livery Not Set In Stone
Username: dirtyfrankd
Posted 2013-04-04 17:32:07 and read 3357 times.

Just saw a 738 in the new livery today as well as a couple of CRJ-700s. The gray paint is actually shiny as hell, especially when the sunlight hits it. Tail looks fantastic as well. All you haters need to relax and move on!!


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