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Topic: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: travelin man
Posted 2013-04-04 08:52:43 and read 8223 times.

Villaraigosa to unveil $229-million overhaul of Delta's LAX terminal

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...x-terminal-20130403,0,411651.story

Plans call for a complete remodel and expansion of Terminal 5, including a private VIP check-in lobby, a renovation of the lounge facilities in the Delta Sky Club and a doubling in size of both the ticketing areas and security checkpoints.

New baggage carousels also will be added to the terminal, as well as improved facilities to recheck international luggage and an array of new restaurants and shops that reflect the culture and lifestyle of Los Angeles.
----------------------------------------------------------

Doesn't sound nearly as comprehensive as what's going on at JFK, but it still sounds like a significant commitment for Delta/LAWA (not sure who is paying for it though - probably a combination of both?).

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-04 09:12:40 and read 8130 times.

Yawn - old news.

We had a thread about this a few months back.

Today is merely the PR event, where our media hungry mayor can smile for the cameras.

Also about half the cost is TSA related and baggage stuff.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-04 09:24:15 and read 8065 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Also about half the cost is TSA related and baggage stuff.

Yup, it seems for even the $400 million being spent on the renovation of T1 that one just ends up with the same terminal with new floors and wall panels.

Shame, but true.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-04-04 09:27:27 and read 8043 times.

Quoting travelin man (Thread starter):

The video in that link had nothing to do with Delta's terminal. It was all about the TBIT.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: DL WIDGET HEAD
Posted 2013-04-04 09:28:45 and read 8028 times.

Very nice indeed and long overdue. I predict a Sky Deck coming to LAX as part of the Sky Club renovations. That would be awesome.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-04 09:37:23 and read 7979 times.

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 4):
Very nice indeed and long overdue. I predict a Sky Deck coming to LAX as part of the Sky Club renovations. That would be awesome.

The construction mentioned in the PR has been underway for sometime. It began with the improvements to the SkyClub and FIS. The new SkyClub opened without a SkyDeck. (Not sure if it is even physically possible.)

The current phase of the project involves improvements to the ticketing lobby and hold rooms, mainly cosmetic updates (i.e., floors, walls, counters, lighting).

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: questions
Posted 2013-04-04 10:53:23 and read 7650 times.

So overall, improvements to the front end and back end of the ground experience and a major focus on the experience for DL premium passengers.

Any updates to the connector tunnel people complain about? Will DL have gates at the new TBIT or just there Sky Team partners?

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-04-04 10:57:13 and read 7623 times.

Sounds like matching a lot of the investment AA made in the last decade with T4. Seems like DL is really making a concerted push to reach parity at LAX with their two major network peers. Will be interesting to see how it works out (this time) ...

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: william
Posted 2013-04-04 11:05:43 and read 7587 times.

Didn't Delta renovate their terminal about 20 years ago? I remember some time ago Delta advertising their new brigther interior with palm trees.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: Prost
Posted 2013-04-04 11:10:03 and read 7541 times.

I'm glad to see they are spending money to improve the dining experience. Terminal 5 is really lacking in that department.

The funding is explained in PR:

The project is funded using approximately $12 million of Delta Air Line's invested capital for proprietary improvements (airline lounge, check-in lobbies, finishes, other architectural elements, etc.); approximately $25 million in reimbursements from the Transportation Security Administration for security-screening measures; and the remainder in LAWA commercial paper/long-term debt, LAWA cash on hand, and Passenger Facility Charges collections.

[Edited 2013-04-04 11:25:08]

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-04 12:23:41 and read 7315 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Sounds like matching a lot of the investment AA made in the last decade with T4. Seems like DL is really making a concerted push to reach parity at LAX with their two major network peers. Will be interesting to see how it works out (this time) ...

This is not a majpr structural/architectural renovation like AA's renovation of T4. Much of the budget for the T5 renovation has already been spent on behind the scenes stuff, like an in-line baggage checking system.

Quoting questions (Reply 6):
Any updates to the connector tunnel people complain about? Will DL have gates at the new TBIT or just there Sky Team partners?

No improvements to the tunnels (what could they do?). All gates at the new TBIT will be common use. They just won't be very convenient, except from T4.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-04 12:44:13 and read 7204 times.

Quoting Prost (Reply 9):
I'm glad to see they are spending money to improve the dining experience. Terminal 5 is really lacking in that department.

That really has nothing to do with Delta or the airlines.

New round of concession agreements are rolling out at LAX over a 2-year period with all concessions being changed over terminal by terminal.
While LAWA strives for variety it really comes down to who bids on the space, and what revenue they can generate back to the airport.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-04-04 12:46:58 and read 7187 times.

Whats happening with the T1 renovations?

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-04-04 12:51:57 and read 7173 times.

I wonder, are the existing carousels flat or inclined? Most likely the new ones will be inclined as what most U.S. airports are installing nowadays (I think PHX once had flat carousels at T2 and T3, but they have since been replaced by inclined carousels).

[Edited 2013-04-04 12:56:56]

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-04-04 13:05:54 and read 7102 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
The new SkyClub opened without a SkyDeck. (Not sure if it is even physically possible.)

I'm sure it "could" be done....but the way T5 is step it would likely cost a crap ton of money. The only other station that would be fairly easy to do is SEA. The new club on S is on the top of the building like the Club in JFK is. LA would take adding the deck on top of T5 and some way to get up there. I would guess it "could" be done. (sad, because LAX/SAN would probably be the two nicest places to have the SkyDeck.)

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 10):
This is not a majpr structural/architectural renovation like AA's renovation of T4. Much of the budget for the T5 renovation has already been spent on behind the scenes stuff, like an in-line baggage checking system.

DL did its big renovation like AA did in 1988.

(rememeber all the "Take 5" "Delta Oasis" etc. etc.)

Quoting questions (Reply 6):
Any updates to the connector tunnel people complain about?

IIRc they painted it the Delta blue and hung up some destination poster things. Its better but...yeah.

Quoting questions (Reply 6):
Will DL have gates at the new TBIT or just there Sky Team partners?

no. If Delta grows any(gate space) it will be more gates in T6 or maybe some kind of smaller RJ terminal like the Box.

note...some international flights could use TBIT due to FIS at T5 and/or T6 being closed. (ie a flight comes in after normal operating hours.)

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 10):
They just won't be very convenient, except from T4.

and T3.

But this is mostly new paint. The bigger things would be the expanding of the Ticketing/TSA and bag pick up. All of which was really needed.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: william
Posted 2013-04-04 13:16:10 and read 7044 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 14):
DL did its big renovation like AA did in 1988.

(rememeber all the "Take 5" "Delta Oasis" etc. etc.)

Thanks, I do remember that. They had pics of the terminal too in their ads.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-04 15:31:49 and read 6389 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 12):
Whats happening with the T1 renovations?

Ask Southwest. They are in charge. I am sure when they have something to show they will make some announcement. They have to move US into T3 before all the fun begins. This is the one current or pending renovation project that could result in cosmetic changes to the facade, changes consistent with LAWA's new design language. Should be interesting to watch.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 14):
DL did its big renovation like AA did in 1988.

Yes, it resulted in a much wider concourse. In total, it is a nice space, except for the ridiculous atrium at the entry, which has no obvious purpose, came at the expense of keeping the low ceilings in the ticketing areas, and remains so out of character with the rest of the airport architecture. (AA's renovation was executed in the late 90's, early 2000's.)

[Edited 2013-04-04 15:34:45]

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-04-04 16:58:40 and read 5910 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 16):
Yes, it resulted in a much wider concourse. In total, it is a nice space, except for the ridiculous atrium at the entry, which has no obvious purpose, came at the expense of keeping the low ceilings in the ticketing areas, and remains so out of character with the rest of the airport architecture. (AA's renovation was executed in the late 90's, early 2000's.)

The "Take 5" renovation of 1986-1988 was actually started by Western - Delta inherited the project halfway through and moved in. Before the merger they were located in T6, and those gates were retained as well.

AA's renovation of T4 came a decade later and was probably the most comprehensive renovation any of the LAX terminals have seen to date (other than T2, which was demolished and replaced in the late 1980s.) UA did a refurbishment of T7/T8 in the late 1990s, but it was mostly focused on new floors/walls/signage and wasn't the complete gut rehab that AA did over at T4.

Good to see Delta putting some money into T5. I still think of it as shiny and new, like it was in the early 1990s when I flew through LAX as a kid. I haven't been in there in years, other than ticket lobby, which looked pretty tired with the low ceilings and lines going every which way.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: toobz
Posted 2013-04-04 17:11:52 and read 5824 times.

This is nothing but positive. DL it seems is pushing forward with the cust experience in mind. Not very typical in the US anymore nowadays..unfortunately. I'm sure it will pay off.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: usdcaguy
Posted 2013-04-04 19:47:00 and read 5156 times.

I hope this is all worth it for DL. I'm concerned LAX will continue to be hypercompetitive thereby making the facilities somewhat superfluous to the price of a ticket. That's the case everywhere, but the stakes are high on this one.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: questions
Posted 2013-04-04 20:45:35 and read 4906 times.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 19):
I hope this is all worth it for DL. I'm concerned LAX will continue to be hypercompetitive thereby making the facilities somewhat superfluous to the price of a ticket. That's the case everywhere, but the stakes are high on this one.

DL is chasing high value, premium customers not the price-conscious crowd. Hence specific mention in the press release of Sky Priority lobby, private VIP check-in lounge, etc. DL will need better LAX facilities to compete for this crowd.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-04-04 20:50:24 and read 4879 times.

Quoting travelin man (Thread starter):
New baggage carousels also will be added to the terminal,

Any links? While spending a bunch of money for the TSA is needed, this is the first that might improve the pre-2000 customer experience.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
While LAWA strives for variety it really comes down to who bids on the space, and what revenue they can generate back to the airport.

   But its improving. Sigh... I was spoiled by DFW's Terminal D. Yummy food *and* spacious.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2013-04-04 21:37:46 and read 4720 times.

What a surprise T5 was for me. I took a weekend trip to LAS and got stuck so had to do LAS-LAX-ATL to get back home one time a couple years back. I was surprised at how tired and blah the place was. As for food it was pretty much non-existent. I came in at a time when the entire hall was jam packed. We had all the flights to the hubs leaving about the same time plus a couple flights to the islands. I also had the honor of flying out of T-6 back to Atlanta so we had to take the bus over. I get to T6 and most of the passengers including myself were literally afraid for our lives. Construction was in full swing and there was a constant drilling/bashing noise above our heads causing concrete dust to constantly fall on everyone. Overall, not the experience you want to give to your passengers in a market such as LAX. T6 asside (construction complete and so is the connector), T5 needs a face-lift bad.

It's pretty much the same deal with JFK although the need at JFK was much more urgent. T3 is a complete embarrassment. The opening of the expanded T4 can't come soon enough.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-04 21:48:53 and read 4669 times.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 17):
UA did a refurbishment of T7/T8 in the late 1990s, but it was mostly focused on new floors/walls/signage and wasn't the complete gut rehab that AA did over at T4.

Anytime now, there should be news about a renovation of T8/T7, something along the lines of what Delta is doing at T5. All and all, LAX is becoming a better airport.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 19):
I hope this is all worth it for DL.

There is not much risk. LAWA is going to buy back the improved areas. As someone mentioned above, Delta will only end up paying for the improvements to proprietary areas (e.g., the SkyClub).

Here is a link to a news report that shows some of the improvements: losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/04/04/delta-airlines-terminal-at-lax-to-undergo-229m-face-lift/

(Not too keen on the blue and white color scheme. Could be too stark for the space, which is more suburban than modern.)

[Edited 2013-04-04 21:55:49]

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-04-05 05:11:43 and read 3957 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 16):

Yes, it resulted in a much wider concourse. In total, it is a nice space, except for the ridiculous atrium at the entry, which has no obvious purpose, came at the expense of keeping the low ceilings in the ticketing areas, and remains so out of character with the rest of the airport architecture. (AA's renovation was executed in the late 90's, early 2000's.)

yeah pretty much agree.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 16):

Ask Southwest. They are in charge. I am sure when they have something to show they will make some announcement. They have to move US into T3 before all the fun begins. This is the one current or pending renovation project that could result in cosmetic changes to the facade, changes consistent with LAWA's new design language. Should be interesting to watch.

Will US still move into T3? I would have thought they would just go ahead and move into T4

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 23):
(Not too keen on the blue and white color scheme. Could be too stark for the space, which is more suburban than modern.)

Yeah Delta loves that blue. ATL is the same way. Not sure how i feel about it.

Delta T5 have a California pizza kitchen? IIRC that was really the only place worth a crap to eat.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2013-04-05 06:21:44 and read 3920 times.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 19):
I hope this is all worth it for DL. I'm concerned LAX will continue to be hypercompetitive thereby making the facilities somewhat superfluous to the price of a ticket. That's the case everywhere, but the stakes are high on this one.

Its all ready worth it. As I've mentioned repeatedly in other threads, but no seems to want to listen, Delta is doing just fine at LAX. LAX may be hyper-competitive, but it is not a low-yield garbage market anymore. If anything, infrastructure constraints have kept capacity growth in check at the airport for years, driving up yields across the board. L.A. is one of the largest air travel markets in the world, it has continued to grow, and will keep growing into the future. Yet the airport capacity in the region is stagnant. That is a winning recipe for any airline with significant assets at LAX. This includes AA, UA and yes, even Delta.

I've said it before, Delta is here to stay at LAX.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-04-05 06:26:59 and read 3911 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 25):
As I've mentioned repeatedly in other threads, but no one seems to want to listen, Delta is doing just fine at LAX.

like you, I have also been saying that DL will slowly turn LAX into a hub.....we should see some more flights added soon. One obvious choice is a LAX-SAL. The large SoCal Salvadoran is desperate for an alternative to the now Colombian "TA"

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2013-04-05 08:29:27 and read 3603 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 26):
like you, I have also been saying that DL will slowly turn LAX into a hub.....we should see some more flights added soon. One obvious choice is a LAX-SAL. The large SoCal Salvadoran is desperate for an alternative to the now Colombian "TA"

Well the big problem with calling it a "hub" is that the facilities are really growth limited. None of the carriers can grow much beyond where they are now at LAX. That means adding capacity inside their existing footprint and/or spilling flights into TBIT. This is already happening to an extent. Delta can probably grow another 10-15% in terms of departures just using current facilities. That might mean some sub-optimal flight times, but it is what it is. They also could expand the pad operation for regional jets to an extent.

But ultimately, there is a hard cap on just how much they can grow at LAX. Just as there is for AA and UA. Which is why all three will end up with a market share in the mid-teens at the airport. Pretty much where they are today. It will just be from a pie that keeps getting bigger.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: cokepopper
Posted 2013-04-05 09:34:10 and read 3480 times.

A bit of trivia regarding the LAX upgrade that was completed around 1988. Delta called it the
Oasis Terminal and around 1989 Delta moved and upgraded to their present position in Term B at EWR
and called it "Oasis East". Also soon after is when we had 3 daily 762 flights between the two cities.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-05 10:43:02 and read 3406 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 27):
Well the big problem with calling it a "hub" is that the facilities are really growth limited. None of the carriers can grow much beyond where they are now at LAX.

I am not so sure about this.

The future of LAX brings with it many opportunities for certain enterprising airlines to obtain more gates and assets at LAX. Of the top four airlines, AA and Southwest would seem to be the best positioned to demand more gates and assets. AA because of its existing agreement for 4 preferential gates at the new TBIT and because it stands to lose garage space and additional hanger space as a result of the MSC (Midfield Satellite Concourse) project. And, Southwest because of an additional project in the amended Specific Plan, the so-called Terminal 0, which would be built adjacent to T1.

[Edited 2013-04-05 10:47:22]

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-04-05 14:07:04 and read 3232 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 10):
All gates at the new TBIT will be common use. They just won't be very convenient, except from T4.

AM, AF, AZ and KL use Terminal 2, right? Don't think they would be moving, or are they?
SU, CI, MU, CZ and KE use TBIT.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-05 14:22:21 and read 3199 times.

Air France A380 ops are at TBIT, and they will move the entire ops over later this year.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: klkla
Posted 2013-04-05 14:58:08 and read 3146 times.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):
I also had the honor of flying out of T-6 back to Atlanta so we had to take the bus over.

You took a bus from T5 to T6 at LAX?

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: peanuts
Posted 2013-04-05 15:12:03 and read 3116 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 27):
But ultimately, there is a hard cap on just how much they can grow at LAX. Just as there is for AA and UA. Which is why all three will end up with a market share in the mid-teens at the airport. Pretty much where they are today. It will just be from a pie that keeps getting bigger.


Makes you wonder...another potentially desired merger (we really don't know though) for a different hub up north may have added benefit down south.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2013-04-05 16:04:36 and read 3040 times.

Quoting klkla (Reply 32):

Yes. This was the only way to get between Delta's OPS on 5 and 6 prior to the connector being completed.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-04-05 16:54:47 and read 2966 times.

It would seem that AA has the best options for expansion. In addition to it's four TBIT gates, there is nothing preventing them from utilizing any additional gates that may be available. With all their intl ops moved to TBIT, that allows for the reconfig of T4 that I keep reading about. So that should net AA 1-2 gates I presume.

Also, Im still not clear as to how the midfield concourse will connect(airside) to TBIT, but assuming it will, AA should have direct access to some of those gates as well.

Considering all the above, in the future we could potentially see AA having the largest amount of gates in LAX if you include the Eagle's nest.

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-05 17:18:39 and read 2928 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 35):
So that should net AA 1-2 gates I presume.

Up to 3 gates.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 35):
Also, Im still not clear as to how the midfield concourse will connect(airside) to TBIT, but assuming it will, AA should have direct access to some of those gates as well.

As of the most recent study, the first phase (11 gate north portion) would be connected to the CTA (Central Terminal Area) by bus. When the 18-gate south portion is added, a people mover would connect the CTA with the midfield concourse (MSC). (Looks like the bridge in the Fentress model is dead.)

The current study for the MSC advances the idea of the people mover and the Central Terminal Processor (CTP). That is the building in front of TBIT in the Fentress model.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 35):
Considering all the above, in the future we could potentially see AA having the largest amount of gates in LAX if you include the Eagle's nest.

Here is where things get interesting. To build the CTP, LAWA has to demolish the T3 and T4 parking garages. Question: Does that give AA some de facto stake in the CTP? Would AA have the option then of moving some of its check-in facilities to the CTP and operating out of gates at the MSC, TBIT, T3, and T4? Add a couple of pedestrian bridges like the ones that are there now between the garages and T3/T4, and T3/T4 could function like one long concourse with a ticket lobby/baggage claim in the middle (the CTP).

At LAWA, the scope of things tends to evolve. Just look at the T4 connector project.

[Edited 2013-04-05 17:25:09]

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: klkla
Posted 2013-04-05 17:25:23 and read 2910 times.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 34):
Yes. This was the only way to get between Delta's OPS on 5 and 6 prior to the connector being completed

That's interesting. I can't rermember the tunnel not being there. How long ago was this?

Topic: RE: $229M Renovation Of DL LAX T5
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-04-05 19:08:40 and read 2795 times.

Quoting klkla (Reply 32):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):
I also had the honor of flying out of T-6 back to Atlanta so we had to take the bus over.

You took a bus from T5 to T6 at LAX?

The connector has been there for decades.....it was temporarily down in 2011 as I believe that there had been flooding of some sort.

[Edited 2013-04-05 19:15:38]


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