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Topic: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-04-07 11:14:57 and read 5527 times.

According to this article:
http://azbex.com/half-billion-for-sk...3-modernization-project-imminent/#

PHX has announced a modernization and expansion plan for T3.

Here are a few things to note:

  • Expansion of the two security checkpoints will begin in 2014 and will be completed in 2015. The current security checkpoints are undersized and need to be expanded.
  • In 2015, reconfiguration of the ticketing and baggage claim areas will be made as well as improvements to concessions. This should be completed in 2017.
  • Starting 2016, a new south concourse will be built, replacing T2. This should be completed in 2019. T2 will be closed, but not demolished.


  • [Edited 2013-04-07 11:26:51]

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: bkircher
    Posted 2013-04-07 11:28:12 and read 5486 times.

    Good for phoenix, but seriously don't understand the new south terminal, every concourse at that airport runs north/south. Its just gonna look funny. Not to mention they don't see any airlines expanding out of that would be the new terminal 2. Just interesting decisions in my opinion.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: Maverick623
    Posted 2013-04-07 11:41:05 and read 5440 times.

    Just a minor correction:

    Quote:
    Although American will be moving to Terminal 4, it’s expected construction will be well-underway before the gate relocation occurs.

    AA will likely be moved over by the end of the year, not in 2016.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: PHXFlyer16
    Posted 2013-04-07 13:08:12 and read 5237 times.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 1):

    I'm with ya. I hate the design. Unless they are leaving the area to the east of that semicircle for an expansion pier towards the east it looks damn silly and out of place.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: dlramp4life
    Posted 2013-04-07 13:11:32 and read 5226 times.

    I believe there are two other threads about this already.

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
    Expansion of the two security checkpoints will begin in 2014 and will be completed in 2015. The current security checkpoints are undersized and need to be expanded.

         

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
    In 2015, reconfiguration of the ticketing and baggage claim areas will be made as well as improvements to concessions. This should be completed in 201

    This will be interesting but I could see this getting scrapped quickly. The ticket counters will be moved up to the upper level and the lower level will all be baggage claim where they will add more belts.

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
    Starting 2016, a new south concourse will be built, replacing T2. This should be completed in 2019. T2 will be closed, but not demolished

    Why not demolish T2? Once UA,AS,and ZK all move to T3, why keep T2 around?

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: azjubilee
    Posted 2013-04-07 14:51:21 and read 5065 times.

    The taxiway that runs parallel to T3 south, is very close to the building therefore it is impossible to extend the terminal any further south. The only logical way to expand the capacity there, is to make it L shaped and build a longer terminal that extends westbound into that huge empty space between T3 and T2. It may stand out as something against the rest of the airport, but it appears to be the best use of space.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: chrisair
    Posted 2013-04-07 15:30:03 and read 4987 times.

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
    The current security checkpoints are undersized and need to be expanded.

    The current security checkpoints are always understaffed. Expanding them won't fix anything until the TSA staffs the checkpoints appropriately...

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: bkircher
    Posted 2013-04-08 01:22:32 and read 4144 times.

    I wasnt talking about extending terminal 3, I thought I saw some plans a few years ago that was to renovate and ultimately replace t2 with a brand new like 20 gate complex, obviously that's been thrown by the way side. Its not like t3 needed to be extended anyways, hence the need for t2 or vice versa. This design is just dumb in my opinion, and the skytrain layout is also pretty dumb if you think about it. Theirs no need to make the track go above the dang taxi way when you already have a bridge that cars can drive under! If you drive the loop at PHX, you will see that the skytrain goes up then down then back up then down, and right before t3, the train goes under the bridge along with the cars. The skyharbor board team is making some seriously strange choices lately.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: atcsundevil
    Posted 2013-04-08 03:19:44 and read 3994 times.

    Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
    AA will likely be moved over by the end of the year, not in 2016.

    Do you know something I don't? I think end of 2013 is pretty damn optimistic considering the merger has yet to pass regulatory approval. That in itself probably won't happen till fall 2013 or later. I think a gate relocation is more likely in 2014 or 2015. Regardless, I agree that 2016 isn't a very accurate timetable and would likely happen much sooner...provided the merger does receive regulatory approval, of course.

    Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 4):
    I believe there are two other threads about this already.

    Yep. I think this was all discussed ad nauseam two or three months ago, right?

    Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 4):
    This will be interesting but I could see this getting scrapped quickly. The ticket counters will be moved up to the upper level and the lower level will all be baggage claim where they will add more belts.

    Could be, although there are a few major problems preventing that. One major issue is that it would probably necessitate a split-level road deck like T4, which is impossible. Another issue is that the gate level is too undersized. Also, the new baggage Matrix system and TSA setup installed about two years ago was designed around the ticket counters being on the ground level. I'm not sure if they'd want to turn around and do another redesign.

    I think the shared level plan will continue because those problems are too big to fix without some seriously major work that would probably require the terminal to be closed -- which obviously ain't happening. The setup now isn't ideal, but with a facelift and a more practical design of the floor plan on the ground level, I think things can function much more efficiently without costing big money or causing big disruptions.

    Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 4):
    Why not demolish T2? Once UA,AS,and ZK all move to T3, why keep T2 around?

    I can think of one big reason.. It costs $$$. Demolition is expensive if it doesn't need to be done, and I'm fairly sure demoing T2 would require asbestos abatement to go along with it, which means the demo would cost 2-3 times more. The core area of the building is quite pretty, somewhat historic, and in good condition. If everything post-security were to be demolished, the main building could serve as a very nice executive terminal, FBO, or ops facility. Or it could serve as overflow, but it probably wouldn't be needed.

    Quoting azjubilee (Reply 5):
    The taxiway that runs parallel to T3 south, is very close to the building therefore it is impossible to extend the terminal any further south. The only logical way to expand the capacity there, is to make it L shaped and build a longer terminal that extends westbound into that huge empty space between T3 and T2. It may stand out as something against the rest of the airport, but it appears to be the best use of space.

    I assume you mean perpendicular to T3 South? If so, that's taxiway Delta. There's nowhere south to go and Delta isn't going anywhere. T3 is also boxed in on the east by taxiway Tango (the westernmost north/south taxiway), which also isn't going anywhere. So you're right, a westward expansion is all that's possible. Not the most efficient, but the taxiways sure as hell aren't moving and there's plenty of westward expansion possible.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 7):
    I thought I saw some plans a few years ago that was to renovate and ultimately replace t2 with a brand new like 20 gate complex, obviously that's been thrown by the way side.

    You're thinking of the West Terminal proposal. It was designed to replace T2 and T3, making T4 become the East Terminal. The last master plan I saw said 30 gates because it would be a gate-for-gate swap from T4S with Southwest. The idea was that WN and US would effectively have their own terminals with everyone else in T4S at the current WN gates...anyway, not happening. Lol. Too much money and not enough demand. I think the idea is still on the shelf, but I can't see demand requiring a facility like that any time sooner than 2025.


    All of this would also would provide a good reason for a fourth (and very much needed) north/south taxiway that has been discussed for years. It would be called Taxiway Uniform. In the past three years, there have been two rounds of long-term alternating closures of the north/south taxiways only leaving two of the three open for 6-12 month stretches (the current closure is 12mos). There desperately needs to be a fourth, so hopefully closing T2 and expanding T3 will make this happen.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: MaverickM11
    Posted 2013-04-08 05:24:58 and read 3730 times.

    Just in time for a merged US/AA to pull down PHX...

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: glbltrvlr
    Posted 2013-04-08 08:26:29 and read 3338 times.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 7):
    the skytrain layout is also pretty dumb if you think about it.

    Not just the up/down thing, but the phasing was dumb as well. They should have done the Rental Car Center / T3/ T4 section first and dumped the massive bus fleet. Would have seen far more use than what they'll see from the current setup.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: ckfred
    Posted 2013-04-08 09:58:03 and read 3252 times.

    Is B6 in Terminal 3? It's been a while since I was at PHX, but I thought B6 was in the south concourse with AA. Regardless, I hope they get some better food options on the south concourse. While there are plenty of options in the terminal itself, the options are pretty limited, once you get past security while flying AA.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: treebeard787
    Posted 2013-04-08 10:23:36 and read 3157 times.

    Quoting ckfred (Reply 11):
    Is B6 in Terminal 3? It's been a while since I was at PHX, but I thought B6 was in the south concourse with AA. Regardless, I hope they get some better food options on the south concourse. While there are plenty of options in the terminal itself, the options are pretty limited, once you get past security while flying AA.

    Yes, B6 uses gate 5 on the south concourse which they share with HA. I agree, the south concourse offers very little in food options, the north concourse has quite a bit more to choose from.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: glbltrvlr
    Posted 2013-04-08 10:47:19 and read 3040 times.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 7):
    the skytrain layout is also pretty dumb if you think about it.

    It's not just the track design that's strange. After thinking about the rider traffic flow, the facilities design in Terminal 4 makes no sense at all. The escalator access to the Sky Train appears to be from the departures (gate) level. Kind of a DFW setup but outside of security. Last time I went through there a couple of weeks ago, a construction wall was up so I couldn't see if there was access down from ticketing and arrival levels. I sure hope so or it's going to be really confusing for departing passengers as well as when they eventually extend to T3 and the Rental Car center.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: bkircher
    Posted 2013-04-08 11:10:30 and read 2931 times.

    I believe there is, I used to work at the airport for us airways express, and it was supposed to open in march, but its not, so in total its like over a year behind. Anyways, I believe there is some sort of access on the ground level for the sky train. It sucks for the t2 passengers connecting to t3 or 4 considering the train, once finished, won't even connect to t2. They will have to walk to the train.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: jmc1975
    Posted 2013-04-08 11:11:40 and read 2931 times.

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
    Starting 2016, a new south concourse will be built, replacing T2. This should be completed in 2019. T2 will be closed, but not demolished.

    What the heck?!?!?!?!? Why don't they just build the 8th and final concourse on T4 (S1) and call it a day?

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: 1337Delta764
    Posted 2013-04-08 11:11:44 and read 2931 times.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 14):
    I believe there is, I used to work at the airport for us airways express, and it was supposed to open in march, but its not, so in total its like over a year behind. Anyways, I believe there is some sort of access on the ground level for the sky train. It sucks for the t2 passengers connecting to t3 or 4 considering the train, once finished, won't even connect to t2. They will have to walk to the train.

    T2 will likely already be closed by the time the Sky Train is extended to the Rental Car Center, so no need to build a station there.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: wn676
    Posted 2013-04-08 11:22:58 and read 2889 times.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 7):
    Theirs no need to make the track go above the dang taxi way when you already have a bridge that cars can drive under!

    Actually there is. There was not enough clearance on the east side to maintain the necessary guideway slope without major realignment and reconstruction of the N4/S4 connector bridge, south ramp, and taxiway Romeo. The bridge was the cheaper and less intrusive option.

    Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 13):

    The access bridge to the Sky Train connects to level 3. From there you can take escalators to both levels 1 and 2. They installed both up and down escalators connecting all levels about a year ago.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: EricR
    Posted 2013-04-08 11:52:42 and read 2826 times.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 7):
    and the skytrain layout is also pretty dumb if you think about it. Theirs no need to make the track go above the dang taxi way when you already have a bridge that cars can drive under! If you drive the loop at PHX, you will see that the skytrain goes up then down then back up then down, and right before t3, the train goes under the bridge along with the cars.




    There was no other choice. There was insufficient room for a light rail station at ground level, hence the reason for the above ground stations at both T3 and T4. The T4 concourse connectors and T4 parking garage would have obstructed any type of possible rail path from street access to the above ground station if a street level rail design were used. Therefore, a bridge concept had to be used.

    In addition, a street level design would have presented a lot of logistical issues associated with the access streets to the East Economy Parking garage and the WN maintenance facility, and logistical issues associated with the East Economy lot itself once the tracks entered the parking lot.

    An above ground concept was the only viable option.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: chrisair
    Posted 2013-04-08 12:02:52 and read 2808 times.

    Quoting ckfred (Reply 11):
    While there are plenty of options in the terminal itself

    There are? I haven't been down the AA side, but pre-security there's a Starbucks, a Paradise Bakery (where I always eat) and a Sbarro pizza. Nothing like the options at T4.

    Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 10):
    Not just the up/down thing, but the phasing was dumb as well. They should have done the Rental Car Center / T3/ T4 section first and dumped the massive bus fleet. Would have seen far more use than what they'll see from the current setup.

    Hey, let's show the locals some love first. Remember, it goes to light rail, not just the parking lot, so they've removed a good chunk of the bus traffic, especially around T4, which can be a mess during certain times of the day/year.

    If you read that article I posted last week from the Republic, you'd know the original plan was to do it all at once. They just didn't have the money to do the entire thing in one shot. The next two years aren't going to be fun when flying out of T3 or T2 though. My problem is I'm typically flying WN on one end of the trip, so parking at the East Economy lot is faster.

    Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 13):
    I sure hope so or it's going to be really confusing for departing passengers as well as when they eventually extend to T3 and the Rental Car center.

    I'm not sure how it'll be confusing for departing passengers. People can check their bags (for free) at the East Economy lot and at the Light Rail station, so theoretically people shouldn't need to go downstairs unless they're on one of the other carriers at T4. Both WN and US have kiosks upstairs right by the checkpoints and the Sky Train station is right next to the escalators to the ticket counters, so it's not a long walk.

    One good thing PHX has is a ton of volunteers. I suspect a lot of them will be around the station helping people out. That and my car won't be covered in concrete dust anymore at the East Economy garage. I hated that.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: glbltrvlr
    Posted 2013-04-08 13:23:12 and read 2742 times.

    Quoting chrisair (Reply 19):
    People can check their bags (for free) at the East Economy lot and at the Light Rail station, so theoretically people shouldn't need to go downstairs

    Ahhh... Didn't realize they were doing remote check-in. That does help departing passengers. When they extend to the Rental Car center it will require going down to bag claim then back up to the T4 station.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: DesertJets
    Posted 2013-04-08 13:56:29 and read 2707 times.

    Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 15):
    What the heck?!?!?!?!? Why don't they just build the 8th and final concourse on T4 (S1) and call it a day?

    Because that will just barely house the existing T2 tenants, not allow for any expansion nor deal with any of the major shortcomings of the current T3.


    For $500 million, I think this is an incredible deal. Especially given what some of the other major terminal projects going are slated to cost. T2 is well past it usable life and while it may have been a marvel for its day in 1962, that day is well past. I remember flying through T2 in the 90s and remembering how cramped it could be. The major upside was that parking was (probably still is) a breeze.


    I know the article says they are not demoing T2, but from the rendering it looks like the far west end of the new south concourse would be awfully close to the existing T2 concourse. I assume they'd demo that and leave the landside portion in place until they decide to do the whole Sky Harbor Blvd. realignment.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: dlramp4life
    Posted 2013-04-08 14:16:47 and read 2694 times.

    Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 12):
    Yes, B6 uses gate 5 on the south concourse which they share with HA. I agree, the south concourse offers very little in food options, the north concourse has quite a bit more to choose from.

    HA has been rumored to be moving over to T3N for months, the airport has new lines outlined on gate 26 and fixed the jetway on 24. Food on the north concourse is a bit better but not much... Blue Burrito and Wendys, not really much to choose from

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: bkircher
    Posted 2013-04-08 14:45:05 and read 2662 times.

    Quoting chrisair (Reply 19):
    There was no other choice. There was insufficient room for a light rail station at ground level, hence the reason for the above ground stations at both T3 and T4. The T4 concourse connectors and T4 parking garage would have obstructed any type of possible rail path from street access to the above ground station if a street level rail design were used. Therefore, a bridge concept had to be used.

    In addition, a street level design would have presented a lot of logistical issues associated with the access streets to the East Economy Parking garage and the WN maintenance facility, and logistical issues associated with the East Economy lot itself once the tracks entered the parking lot.

    An above ground concept was the only viable option.

    I wasnt talking about having everything be at ground level, im talking about the actual track that the train goes on. To me it seems like major over kill to build a track over 75ft in the air, why not just have it go on the ground and use the same path as the cars considering theres already a passage way for the cars under the taxiway, all they would have had to do is widen that and make room for the train then go up to the terminal, to me that seems more logical rather than building over the airport taxiway.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: wn676
    Posted 2013-04-08 15:18:25 and read 2624 times.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 23):
    I wasnt talking about having everything be at ground level, im talking about the actual track that the train goes on. To me it seems like major over kill to build a track over 75ft in the air, why not just have it go on the ground and use the same path as the cars considering theres already a passage way for the cars under the taxiway, all they would have had to do is widen that and make room for the train then go up to the terminal, to me that seems more logical rather than building over the airport taxiway.

    The bridge was built because there wasn't any way to provide the proper clearance and slope requirements for the guideway going east out of T4 and down to the roadway level. To come out from level 3 and clear underneath both the taxiway and connector bridge wouldn't have been possible as they are currently built. To do so would have been more expensive and would have required an extensive amount of reconstruction and realignment.

    [Edited 2013-04-08 15:19:33]

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: chrisair
    Posted 2013-04-08 15:23:14 and read 2665 times.

    Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 20):
    When they extend to the Rental Car center it will require going down to bag claim then back up to the T4 station.

    It still shouldn't be that big of an issue. There are escalators that go from level 3 (gates) straight to bag claim and v.v. It's probably a bit shorter of a walk than the current way of doing things.

    Hopefully they'll have more trains or cars because I've seen some real nasty lines for the rental car busses at T4 and T3.

    Quoting bkircher (Reply 23):
    To me it seems like major over kill to build a track over 75ft in the air, why not just have it go on the ground and use the same path as the cars considering theres already a passage way for the cars under the taxiway, all they would have had to do is widen that and make room for the train then go up to the terminal, to me that seems more logical rather than building over the airport taxiway.

    Not really. If they went under it following the roadway, they'd have to rebuild every bridge, like they're currently doing between T3/T4. There isn't enough room between the bridge walls and the roadway for the train, and there is no room for a station at roadway level. They looked at a basement station, but that was nixed for a bunch of reasons (see below), one of which was security after Sept. 11 and it was also below the water table.

    Since it seems nobody read the article I posted earlier in the other thread   here it is again: http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...0322phoenix-sky-train-airport.html

    This is why they built a bridge:

    Quote:
    As Terminal 4 went up, engineers deliberately placed thicker and longer concrete piers, which support the building, at wider intervals to make room for a future train tunnel in the basement at an additional cost of $9 million.

    Some longtime Phoenix residents still believe there is a tunnel hidden deep in the bowels of Terminal 4. In fact, the tunnel is only loose earth between the piers, which would make it easier to bore a tunnel.

    [.....]

    She [proj. mgr Jane Morris] toured the Terminal 4 basement with rail- and airport-design experts to see where the trains were to arrive.

    She asked how passengers would get to their gates. The experts pointed down a dark corridor at a sea of electrical boxes. The tunnel was below the water table and would be half-submerged.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: glbltrvlr
    Posted 2013-04-08 17:56:00 and read 2567 times.

    Quoting chrisair (Reply 25):
    Hopefully they'll have more trains or cars because I've seen some real nasty lines for the rental car busses at T4 and T3.

    I've noticed the same thing. Someone has really gone overboard with cost cuts. When they first opened the Rental Car center the only problem was the unbelievable annoying Deborah Ostreicher (that name will live with me for the rest of my life) video that ran in the buses on a continuous loop. There were always buses available on both sides and they didn't sit for 10 minutes before leaving.

    Nowadays I always run into a line for a non-existent bus.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: chrisair
    Posted 2013-04-08 18:21:08 and read 2549 times.

    Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 26):
    Someone has really gone overboard with cost cuts.

    Family members have complained about the same thing, and they go to T2.

    I noticed the same thing with the busses for parking. They'd often come in waves and occasionally I would end up waiting 10 or 15 minutes for another one to show up. It was especially annoying when 3 or 4 east economy (the old Gecko lot) would come by while there were no garage busses for 15 minutes. This started happening in late 2011 and really got bad last summer.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: ckfred
    Posted 2013-04-09 07:50:58 and read 2327 times.

    Quoting chrisair (Reply 19):
    There are? I haven't been down the AA side, but pre-security there's a Starbucks, a Paradise Bakery (where I always eat) and a Sbarro pizza. Nothing like the options at T4.

    There's a deli with food that is way overpriced, and a BBQ.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: asqx
    Posted 2013-04-09 09:14:19 and read 2274 times.

    Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
    Could be, although there are a few major problems preventing that. One major issue is that it would probably necessitate a split-level road deck like T4, which is impossible. Another issue is that the gate level is too undersized. Also, the new baggage Matrix system and TSA setup installed about two years ago was designed around the ticket counters being on the ground level. I'm not sure if they'd want to turn around and do another redesign.

    I think the shared level plan will continue because those problems are too big to fix without some seriously major work that would probably require the terminal to be closed -- which obviously ain't happening. The setup now isn't ideal, but with a facelift and a more practical design of the floor plan on the ground level, I think things can function much more efficiently without costing big money or causing big disruptions.

    While there will be no split level roadway, the ticket counter will, if this plan goes forward, be moving to level 2. The new bag system is a joke and, especially in the morning rush, too prone to jams and shutdowns. Bags from the ticket counter have to go downstairs (yes, there is an under ground in T3), get turned around and then go up three floors to get to screening. Moving the counters upstairs will shorten the trip for bags and since bags will be going downslope instead of upslope there will be fewer jams caused by bags not being able to make it up the slopes.

    The ticket counter area is too small as it is for most of the morning and adding in United and Alaska would simply created an unorganized mob in the mornings. Also, if United and Alaska do get moved over to T3, the current four bag claims in T3 will not suffice and so more carousels will have to be added. The only sensible place to put them would be on the ground level where the ticket counters are currently located.

    The inconvenient part of the new layout will be that all pick ups and drop offs not coming from the parking garage will be on the baggage claim level.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: dlramp4life
    Posted 2013-04-09 12:57:58 and read 2177 times.

    Quoting asqx (Reply 29):

    I did not know that the belt system goes underground then up three levels to the TSA screening area. It takes a bag 10 minutes to get to the pier from the ticket counter. So you agree that the ticket counter should move up to level two?

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: asqx
    Posted 2013-04-09 14:12:13 and read 2118 times.

    Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 30):
    I did not know that the belt system goes underground then up three levels to the TSA screening area. It takes a bag 10 minutes to get to the pier from the ticket counter. So you agree that the ticket counter should move up to level two?

    From the counter it goes down below, then turns first away from and then towards the outside wall where it goes back up past the counter, up to the cieling of the service level, then bags go around to TSA screening. Then they go back into the cieling of the service level and get sorted to the outbound carousels.

    If the counter moves up to level 2, the bags will go then go from the counter down a half floor to the cieling of the service level and then follow the same path as they follow now. Depending on the backup at screening, should cut at a minimum from 2 to 5 minutes or more off the travel time. A large part of the problem with bags now is because of the turning underneath the counters to get the bags on the upward belt they get turned sideways or fall over, or in the case of golf bags they roll over, and end up wheels down and slide down to the bottom and can't make it all the way up.

    Besides, the horseshoe layout of the current ticketing area creates a lot of congestion and back tracking for passengers who after waiting to check in must then walk through the croud of people still waiting to check in to leave and go up to the gates. Moving upstairs will help with that and from what I have seen will allow for the counters to be set up to avoid people backtracking to leave after checking in.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: DesertJets
    Posted 2013-04-09 14:56:30 and read 2104 times.

    In all the years I lived in PHX and visited since then I have only flown in and out of T3 twice. Which is probably why I am having trouble picturing the improvements to the terminal. So is there an intermediate level between the current ticketing lobby/baggage claim and the passenger level? So that is where the new ticketing area would be?



    I've been thinking about this a bit, once T2 is demoed and Sky Harbor Blvd is realigned there is the potential to redo the northern concourse as well given all that extra real estate. And they could potentially expand the core building as well if the passenger demand was ever there. Would I be off base on that one?

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: asqx
    Posted 2013-04-09 16:40:09 and read 2032 times.

    Quoting DesertJets (Reply 32):
    In all the years I lived in PHX and visited since then I have only flown in and out of T3 twice. Which is probably why I am having trouble picturing the improvements to the terminal. So is there an intermediate level between the current ticketing lobby/baggage claim and the passenger level? So that is where the new ticketing area would be?

    There is a level between the floors 1 and 2 but it is the service level where the outbound baggage piers are located, as well as some other non-public spaces.

    If this remodel is done, the ticket counters will be moved from the current level 1 locations and be moved up to level 2. The restaurants and shops currently located before security will be removed and replaced with the new check in lobby areas.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: dlramp4life
    Posted 2013-04-09 21:19:10 and read 1936 times.

    Quoting asqx (Reply 31):
    From the counter it goes down below, then turns first away from and then towards the outside wall where it goes back up past the counter, up to the cieling of the service level, then bags go around to TSA screening. Then they go back into the cieling of the service level and get sorted to the outbound carousels.

    and some of my coworkers complain about the old straight belt system but this sounds so complex.

    So with this expansion of moving the ticket counter to level two there would be more baggage claim belts and outbound piers... sounds all good but the logistics of moving the belt system up to level two, adding more baggage claim bets, and outbound piers, this will be a major inconvenience for pax and ground employees alike.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: EA CO AS
    Posted 2013-04-10 00:10:26 and read 1847 times.

    Quoting asqx (Reply 33):
    If this remodel is done, the ticket counters will be moved from the current level 1 locations and be moved up to level 2.

    I may have overlooked this, but would there also be an addition of a level 2 roadway for departures to align with the new location of the ticket counters?

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: dlramp4life
    Posted 2013-04-10 00:31:02 and read 1836 times.

    Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 35):
    I may have overlooked this, but would there also be an addition of a level 2 roadway for departures to align with the new location of the ticket counters?

    No there wouldn't. There would be elevators and esclators on level one that would bring passengers up to the ticketing lobby, one on the north end, one on the south end and then an area over on the west end near the sky train station.

    Topic: RE: PHX Announces T3 Modernization/expansion
    Username: asqx
    Posted 2013-04-10 07:58:04 and read 1734 times.

    Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 34):
    So with this expansion of moving the ticket counter to level two there would be more baggage claim belts and outbound piers... sounds all good but the logistics of moving the belt system up to level two, adding more baggage claim bets, and outbound piers, this will be a major inconvenience for pax and ground employees alike.

    No airport construction project is every really convenient while being done, certainly not the dozen or so I have been involved with. However, after completion, if done right, things work out better in the long run.

    Changing the input of bags into the pre-screening feeder belts is actually pretty simple though. Since the conveyor belts are in sections, they just disconnect the system at a junction and replace the feeder belt that comes from downstairs with one that comes from upstairs. In the last airport I worked at that redid the baggage system, once they installed the new system it took only one night to change the feeder belts to go from old to new. Now, rearranging the vertical passenger flow and remodeling level 2 to be ticket counters instead of shops, that will be messy but since it is coming after the new security checkpoints there will be more room to work with. Since the new outbound bag piers would be located west of the current ones where there are now offices, adding those won't cause much issue for current operations. The same goes to the new baggage claim as since those would be in the area now occupied by the ticket counters, once those move walls can be put up and the claim carousels added without too much inconvenience.


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