Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5736684/

Topic: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-04-11 23:00:51 and read 8323 times.

.... Boeing is back to hinting that the 787 program its heading to South Carolina so here is my thoughts


1st stage ..... The 787 leaves PAE

2nd stage ..... Boeing cancels its agreement with RNT and moves the 737 Max program to South Carolina once an additional assembly line is built.

3rd stage...... Boeing starts an aggressive push to sell all 737 MAX a/c and soon cancels the NG program.

4th stage .... Boeing announces lagging sales with the 747 program and cancels the queen of the sky after 45 plus years.

5th stage ..... Boeing lets attrition kill the 777 program

This will I think happen all within the next 10 years, Boeing is leaving SEA folks...they announced besides the layoff of 2300 employees today that they have cancelled the building permit process for a new multi story office/technology building at PAE.

Boeing is GOING away SEA.... Now would be a good time for the state to tax them on the sell of their aircraft and collect what they can.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: macsog6
Posted 2013-04-11 23:05:58 and read 8312 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Thread starter):
Now would be a good time for the state to tax them on the sell of their aircraft and collect what they can.

And guarantee that your predictions come true. Washington has done their very best to run Boeing away and this would only be the final nail in the coffin. Yes, lets tax the daylights out of them and then pay the revenue in unemployment benefits to the thousands of workers who no longer have jobs.

Encourage industry, do not give it reasons to leave.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: 707lvr
Posted 2013-04-11 23:29:45 and read 8246 times.

I think your examples are pretty extreme. While Boeing is definitely out of love with Washington at last, there is just too much investment here to throw away. And it would be effectively thrown away because there is no one big enough to buy most of it.

The only people left who are dumb enough not to realize that the good ol' home Boeing boys are all gone seem to be officials of the great State of Washington. Will they ever wake up and break every bone in their asses to keep Boeing here? 50-50.

Incidentally, in case somebody brings up RCW Title 82 Chapter 82.04 Section 82.04.260 for the zillionth time to point out how generous Washington has been in cutting Boeing's tax load, please remember that no other jurisdiction in the world which houses a "major airframe manufacturer" would ever establish an excise tax specifically on them, and then cut it, only to be accused of giving illegal support.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: SSTeve
Posted 2013-04-11 23:51:49 and read 8178 times.

In *10* years, the 767, 777, and 787 will still be produced in Everett, the 737 in Renton, and craploads all-else whatever it is they do down at Boeing Field. P-8s and whatnot.

After 10 years, who the heck knows, but watercooler talk probably isn't going to be the best predictor.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: aklrno
Posted 2013-04-12 00:36:00 and read 8049 times.

Can you folks even guess how much money Boeing has invested in facilities in the Seattle area? They may expand elsewhere, but I don't think they are throwing away tens of billions of dollars in buildings and real estate. Do you think they plan on converting all those buildings to Wal-Marts?, or housing developments like at Kai Tak? If Boeing left there wouldn't be much of a real estate market for a decade or two.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: Gunsontheroof
Posted 2013-04-12 02:17:50 and read 7931 times.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 4):
Can you folks even guess how much money Boeing has invested in facilities in the Seattle area? They may expand elsewhere, but I don't think they are throwing away tens of billions of dollars in buildings and real estate. Do you think they plan on converting all those buildings to Wal-Marts?, or housing developments like at Kai Tak? If Boeing left there wouldn't be much of a real estate market for a decade or two.

This is pretty much the story for the near-term future. A lot of folks outside of the Puget Sound region don't seem to have a great grasp of just how much Boeing has invested around here. It's not just factories, flight lines and paint shops at PAE, RNT and BFI--it's everything from machine shops to graphic design to computer services to warehouses. Boeing's presence here isn't what it was when I was a lad, but it's still extensive. I can't imagine how even the most Washington-disenchanted CEO could possibly find a way to safely divest from the region completely in less than decade. For that matter, I'm not sure I can see how doing so would make sense. This is arguably the largest aviation cluster in the world and the concentration of talent that it's attracted over the years (the better part of a century) is remarkable.

That being said, we'll have wait a bit to see how well the Charleston facility works out for Boeing. I suspect that we'll see substantial resources directed there if no locally unique issues with the current 787 production emerge in the near term,

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2013-04-12 02:52:13 and read 7876 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Thread starter):
1st stage ..... The 787 leaves PAE

Did I miss an announcement? I can't imagine Charleston has anywhere near the capacity to be the sole 787 plant. If production is to be transferred, isn't stage 1 building a new line? There isn't even a paint hall.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-12 03:01:21 and read 7853 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 6):
Did I miss an announcement? I can't imagine Charleston has anywhere near the capacity to be the sole 787 plant. If production is to be transferred, isn't stage 1 building a new line? There isn't even a paint hall.

No announcement, just speculation. Boeing’s plan to invest an additional $1.1 billion and hire 2,000 more employees in South Carolina by 2020 rang alarm bells in Washington state.

[Edited 2013-04-12 03:03:09]

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-04-12 03:24:51 and read 7814 times.

Seems like despite the administration punishing Boeing by grounding the 787 in retaliation for fighting them re: the 787 FAL,they will continue to move jobs away from democratic controlled Washington to right to work republican South Carolina. This will get uglier. How long will the FAA now take to recertify the 787 considering these announcements? They obviously didn't get the message that regulation can be used to punish...

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: Gunsontheroof
Posted 2013-04-12 03:44:45 and read 7774 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
Seems like despite the administration punishing Boeing by grounding the 787 in retaliation for fighting them re: the 787 FAL,they will continue to move jobs away from democratic controlled Washington to right to work republican South Carolina. This will get uglier. How long will the FAA now take to recertify the 787 considering these announcements? They obviously didn't get the message that regulation can be used to punish...

You can't possibly believe that the 787 grounding has anything to do with politics. Throwing a wrench in the gears of one of the largest American exporters is something no conceivable administration would consider advisable at this day and age. The words "political suicide" come to mind. There's also the small matter that the Boeing program in question has been no stranger to serious problems and almost certainly warrants its ongoing review process.

The current head brass at Boeing might not have the greatest relations with Olympia/D.C., but that has precisely zip to do with the 787's battery problems and grounding. The U.S. economy has every reason to want 787 production to proceed unfettered.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-04-12 04:10:27 and read 7727 times.

You assume the state of WA just sits there and doesn't respond with an incentive package to keep Boeing production. WA is not a business unfriendly state. I don't think you'll see anything move, but additional capacity will be in SC.

What I don't get is why Boeing corporate offices are in Chicago.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2013-04-12 06:18:57 and read 7542 times.

LOL.

Moving all the manufacturing facility to SC would actually put you back to square 1 by putting all your eggs in one basket. You are assuming that SC politics would be stable in 20, 30, 50 years time. Even if that is true, then you are also assuming that the SC plant woulnd not be impacted by one or more Huricanes in 20, 30 or 50 years time frame.

Building airplanes is only one aspect of Boeing production cycle. The cycle include sustaining Engineering and Airplane Development Engineering which they like to keep near the factory. Good luck trying to move the whole Engineering staff to SC.

Finally if you ever have a chance to come up to Everett, I recommend taking the factory tour and see the Biggest Building in the World (in vollume). In order to replace what they are doing in Everett, you'll have to build the biggest building in the world all over again. Don't think Boeing has enough money do do that . . . not at 10% return on investment each year.

bt

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-04-12 06:23:15 and read 7523 times.

One thing missing fom your formula is that 30% of Boeing employees in Washington are in the technical union SPEEA. They can't easily pick up and move engineering to South Carolina. Boeing learned the hard way on the 787 that they can't outsource all engineering work.

Also there is a clause in the IAM contract that the MAX will be in renton. If they try to shut renton down, they will face a labor relations law suit that they likely will not be able to get out of.

I see Boeing diversifying away from seattle, but I don't see it leaving. But I agree the good old seattle boys don't run the company anymore.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-04-12 06:49:50 and read 7444 times.

I was fortunate enough to be giving a tour of Boeing's Renton factory a couple of weeks ago. In no way did it look as if they're scaling back production but quite the opposite...moving to I believe 43 a/c per month on two assembly lines. Anyone that has ever visited PAE or RTN can see the huge commitment to producing airplanes here...it would not be easy to pick up and leave.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-04-12 07:24:37 and read 7347 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 10):
What I don't get is why Boeing corporate offices are in Chicago.

The official reason is to bring Boeing HQ closer to both Washington D.C. and their facilities in Saint Louis.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
One thing missing fom your formula is that 30% of Boeing employees in Washington are in the technical union SPEEA. They can't easily pick up and move engineering to South Carolina. Boeing learned the hard way on the 787 that they can't outsource all engineering work.

Also there is a clause in the IAM contract that the MAX will be in renton. If they try to shut renton down, they will face a labor relations law suit that they likely will not be able to get out of.

And a "Right to Work" state means one does not have to be a member of a union to gain employment, not that unions are disallowed.

Boeing CHS was a union shop when Boeing took over. The workers voted to de-certify the IAM because they felt they could negotiate better deals with Boeing on their own. If Boeing treats them worse as non-union than when they were union, expect the IAM to be back.

And if Boeing moved all commercial airliner production to CHS, that would only encourage the IAM to re-certify the facility due to the number of workers present.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-04-12 07:27:15 and read 7339 times.

Didn't I read a report that Boeing stating that Boeing just bought another large facility adjacent to Everett that it has been renting for use in reworking the already built 787s. The article speculated that Boeing purchased the building to ensure enough production space once the 787-10 gets going. Which raises another question - when are they going to finally offer the 787-10?

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
despite the administration punishing Boeing by grounding the 787 in retaliation for fighting them re: the 787 FAL

Oh come on now, lets leave the outlandish conspiracy theories to those friendly folks in N. Korea.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-12 08:27:42 and read 7223 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 15):
The article speculated that Boeing purchased the building to ensure enough production space once the 787-10 gets going.

Weird speculation, Boeing already has 3 assembly lines for the 787 and one of them is only temporary (the 'surge line'). I think the EMC will have another purpose in the future, maybe a wing assembly building for the 777X.

[Edited 2013-04-12 08:28:30]

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2013-04-12 08:41:45 and read 7186 times.

Oh yeah, what about the new delivery center they just opened up in Everett? How much did that cost to build? Shame to waste such a beautiful building if they were going to move everything out of Everett. 


bt

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: F9animal
Posted 2013-04-12 10:02:26 and read 7070 times.

Charleston workers are already hinting that they want to be union again. I see it happening in the near future. I know the IAM is frequently visiting the area again, so that makes me curious on that front.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: Gunsontheroof
Posted 2013-04-12 10:21:46 and read 7029 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 10):
What I don't get is why Boeing corporate offices are in Chicago.

From what I remember my dad (a Boeing employee of nearly 40 years) saying, it had something to do with the post-MD merger management wanting HQ to be located more central to Boeing's facilities across the country.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 11):
Good luck trying to move the whole Engineering staff to SC.

This is a big one. I'm sure Boeing could probably attract up and coming engineering talent to SC if they put their efforts into it, but one thing they have in their favor around Seattle is the high level of education and a standard of living that many young professionals find attractive.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
And if Boeing moved all commercial airliner production to CHS, that would only encourage the IAM to re-certify the facility due to the number of workers present.

Again, something that gets overlooked. All the "Boeing is bailing on Seattle/moving to Charleston" arguments assume the workers there are never going to try to unionize, which I kindly doubt.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 18):
Charleston workers are already hinting that they want to be union again. I see it happening in the near future. I know the IAM is frequently visiting the area again, so that makes me curious on that front.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that IAM's going to be keeping an eye on Charleston for any way in.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-04-12 10:26:20 and read 7004 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Thread starter):
This will I think happen all within the next 10 years, Boeing is leaving SEA folks...they announced besides the layoff of 2300 employees today that they have cancelled the building permit process for a new multi story office/technology building at PAE.

Boeing is GOING away SEA.... Now would be a good time for the state to tax them on the sell of their aircraft and collect what they can.

Is your name Chicken Little? The ski is falling. OMG, help us.

Way over dramatized. They want to geographically diversify a bit, but I still believe SEA will be the major place. It's not just to diversify because of unions. SEA is prone to earthquakes.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-04-12 11:33:47 and read 6899 times.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 17):
Oh yeah, what about the new delivery center they just opened up in Everett? How much did that cost to build? Shame to waste such a beautiful building if they were going to move everything out of Everett.

Company's often spend lots of cash either before they file bankruptcy,go out of business or MOVE the operation... It is taking advantage of LOOPHOLES that are killing this country.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2013-04-12 12:46:44 and read 6583 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 20):
Is your name Chicken Little? The ski is falling. OMG, help us.

The sky is not falling . . . but there are posibilities.

Everett may not lose it Final Assy status, but there are many operation that could easily move to SC.

1) The Blanket Shop
2) Interiors Responibility Center - Well maybe not the IRC as they are critical in new airplane development.
3) Various Wire shops.

Boeing is good with asset/property managment. I can easily see them paring activites in the Puget Sound down to the essentials. Sell of prime real estate and move ancilary activities to SC.

They could also move move their labs (sonic labs, wind tunnel etc . . . ). But those items are probably not worth the moving expenses. Best to leave those alone.

bt

[Edited 2013-04-12 12:57:51]

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: SEA
Posted 2013-04-12 13:12:32 and read 6275 times.

I really don't think Boeing would have just built a multi-million dollar delivery center at PAE if the idea is to move the 787 to SC and kill the 777 within 10 years...

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: EASTERN747
Posted 2013-04-12 13:36:26 and read 6045 times.

Boeing is in Chicago, IMHO, because of several reasons......
-The city gave them a great tax incentive
-They are in the center of the country and can reach out to airline corporate offices in a much more time sensitive basis,,including Europe
-they were promised helicopter service would be ok to land on the top of the building.After all was all said and done Mayor Daley said no...Boeing does support the arts here in the city and that is very good....

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: 707lvr
Posted 2013-04-12 13:38:41 and read 6237 times.

Couple of things. First, it's naive to think that an administration, especially one like we are enjoying presently, would not rap the country's greatest exporter HARD in order to favor its Union friends. It would. It did.

Second, executives DO make decisions up there on the top floors which have nothing to do with the business pages. Boeing brass left Seattle because (a) No one remaining had any connection with this community, except Phil, who seriously needed to get out of town fast; (b) McD guys hate it here (wouldn't you?) (c) to get away from the *&%# employees. Item (c) Was the principal reason.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: EASTERN747
Posted 2013-04-12 14:20:44 and read 5928 times.

The entire reason Boeing left to go to CHS were the unions. You think they were working in a sweat shop FGS. They shot themselves in the a##. They made their bed, so lay in it...............................I would be retired from Eastern if it wasn't for unions and a person who knew nothing about airlines....

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: BravoOne
Posted 2013-04-12 14:49:10 and read 5761 times.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 4):
Quoting aklrno (Reply 4):
Can you folks even guess how much money Boeing has invested in facilities in the Seattle area? They may expand elsewhere, but I don't think they are throwing away tens of billions of dollars in buildings and real estate. Do you think they plan on converting all those buildings to Wal-Marts?, or housing developments like at Kai Tak? If Boeing left there wouldn't be much of a real estate market for a decade or two.

Well after watching the take the first steps in closing the training center in Renton nothing that Boeing might do would surprise me. Pure hatred for labor is the only reason and Boeing doesn't care if it cost them millions, they will teach the unions a leson, or two. Pathetic doesn't beging to describe what is happening over there.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: Blackbird1331
Posted 2013-04-12 15:08:41 and read 5612 times.

The "Max" is the replacement for the NG. The reason it was developed.

The 747 will be around for a long time, as a freighter at least.

The 777 is the new "heavy" for Boeing. It, too, will be around for a long time.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-04-12 15:50:07 and read 5306 times.

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 25):
(c) to get away from the *&%# employees. Item (c) Was the principal reason.

And most of the employees prefer it that way. When I worked for Boeing, the less attention we got from HQ, the better.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2013-04-12 15:56:03 and read 5251 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 10):

What I don't get is why Boeing corporate offices are in Chicago.

In two words: tax incentives.
Also an ideal geographical location.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 20):
SEA is prone to earthquakes.

Also volcanic hazards from Mts. Baker, Rainier and St. Helens. Ash clouds, ash falls, lahars, you name it.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
Seems like despite the administration punishing Boeing by grounding the 787 in retaliation for fighting them re: the 787 FAL,they will continue to move jobs away from democratic controlled Washington to right to work republican South Carolina. This will get uglier. How long will the FAA now take to recertify the 787 considering these announcements?

Politics in the real world isn't exactly as red and blue as a presidential election result map suggests. It's all about lobbying to begin with, and who can outspend who.
There is also NO conspiracy whatsoever about the FAA grounding the 787. It's all about possible fire hazards and people's safety.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-04-12 16:04:23 and read 5175 times.

If Boeing closes Seattle....I guess Yuasa could buy the whole plant and surrounding areas... my guess is that they need such a space for testing batteries ...   

On a serious note, I think that the investment on facilities is WAY TOO BIG to, just drop it and pack to go somewhere... then again with al the mumbo jumbo on real state..they may make a lot of bucks out of it... but I doubt it...

TRB

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: baw716
Posted 2013-04-12 16:39:33 and read 4962 times.

Did anyone mention the COST of moving the whole operation to South Carolina?

Unrealistic.

Boeing needs to spread its footprint in order to makeup for the backlog of 787s they have as a result of the delay in getting the aircraft built, certified and delivered. They will need to be up to full capacity right out of the gate once the 787 gets recertified, which it will sooner or later (sooner hopefully), plus with the other future projects on the map, having facilties around the country is not a bad thing.

We do have to get over the fact that Boeing is no longer a "Washington State" company. Painful as that might be to our egos (I am from the Seattle area and with Boeing in the family my entire life, its personal), reality is that they can only do so much in Washington State (and they do A LOT there).

It's not leaving WA anytime soon, so let's cool our jets on this issue so we can talk about getting the 787 airborne again.

baw716

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: aklrno
Posted 2013-04-12 16:50:44 and read 4883 times.

I forgot to mention that in addition to Boeings facilities in Washington, they have many, many suppliers nearby that would have to move (at great expense) too. You might not want to move the workforce (who might not want to move anyway) but how many years would it take to adequately replace them? And the suppliers workforces?

Opening a second center seems like a prudent idea. The competition among governments and labor forces will help Boeing. Cutting back to one (albeit a different one) just puts you back in the prior situation. Putting all your eggs in one basket is dangerous whether that basket is threatened by strikes, volcanos, earthquakes, or hurricanes.

I am not surprised that from time to time Boeing moves some operations out of Renton or Everett. Those places are getting crowded. Situations change, requirements change. Labor issues make multi-million dollar differences. Moving it all is a multi-billion dollar issue.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-04-12 17:17:12 and read 4725 times.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 4):
Do you think they plan on converting all those buildings to Wal-Marts?,

No, but can't you just see the Everett FAL painted blue and yellow with a giant yellow IKEA on the side.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Thread starter):
they announced besides the layoff of 2300 employees today

They severely over hired to get the 787 program up to speed as well as do all the required modifications so this may have made the headlines but everybody new it was coming long ago.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 6):
Did I miss an announcement? I can't imagine Charleston has anywhere near the capacity to be the sole 787 plant. If production is to be transferred, isn't stage 1 building a new line? There isn't even a paint hall.

  

Funny you should mention paint. It's extremely difficult/costly to build a new paint hanger anywhere these days. I don't see one in CHS yet. Boeing is still kicking themselves for not building the "planned" 4th paint hangar in PAE when they built the third one. With four paint hangars at BOE and one at RNT they are looking at painting 737's in Spokane as the rate goes up.


Boeing's production rate has gone up drastically and is continuing to rise there just isn't room in the Puget Sound area and all it takes is a major earthquake/eruption/hurricane and you learn it's not smart to have all your eggs in one basket.


Quoting BravoOne (Reply 27):
Well after watching the take the first steps in closing the training center in Renton nothing that Boeing might do would surprise me. Pure hatred for labor is the only reason and Boeing doesn't care if it cost them millions, they will teach the unions a leson, or two. Pathetic doesn't beging to describe what is happening over there.

Most of those people belong to SPEEA and although a thorn in Boeings side they are not anywhere as militant as the IAM. You're also talking about a building that has been surrounded by 10' rock walls for the last several years due to a threat of a possible damn break upstream.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-04-12 17:36:48 and read 4617 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Thread starter):

1st stage ..... The 787 leaves PAE

2nd stage ..... Boeing cancels its agreement with RNT and moves the 737 Max program to South Carolina once an additional assembly line is built.

3rd stage...... Boeing starts an aggressive push to sell all 737 MAX a/c and soon cancels the NG program.

4th stage .... Boeing announces lagging sales with the 747 program and cancels the queen of the sky after 45 plus years.

5th stage ..... Boeing lets attrition kill the 777 program

This will I think happen all within the next 10 years, Boeing is leaving SEA folks...they announced besides the layoff of 2300 employees today that they have cancelled the building permit process for a new multi story office/technology building at PAE.

Boeing is GOING away SEA.... Now would be a good time for the state to tax them on the sell of their aircraft and collect what they can.

1st stage: Not a snowballs chance in Kauai.

2nd stage: That would be a tremendous amount of capital tied up in building new plants.

3rd stage: They still need to fill the NG orders they presently have.

4th stage: Only after Airbus cancels the A380, which means the 747 program while not what it once was will still continue on the books.

5th stage: The 777 will be here to stay

Are you living in South Carolina perhaps and wish this to come to fruition? Boeing although is having issues with the 787 but seem to ironing them out is still a very good company and has much more to offer than just the commercial side of the aircraft business. They also have their military side which you did not mention as well they also have the service side to their existing customers.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-04-12 17:40:13 and read 4608 times.

It's a cycle. I do believe there is some truth to it. Come 2030, the low-income states of California, Washington will be hoping for lucrative Texas and Florida-related jobs, states with low taxes and right-to-work.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-13 03:50:07 and read 3081 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 34):
It's extremely difficult/costly to build a new paint hanger anywhere these days.

Interesting. Why is that?

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-04-13 04:59:14 and read 3031 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 37):
Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 34):
It's extremely difficult/costly to build a new paint hanger anywhere these days.

Interesting. Why is that?

What is your definition of difficult/costly. I agree, but what we may view as costly Boeing may view as an investment in their future and may have benefits that we don't know about.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-04-13 11:23:35 and read 2832 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 34):
It's extremely difficult/costly to build a new paint hanger anywhere these days

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 37):
Interesting. Why is that?
Quoting brilondon (Reply 38):
What is your definition of difficult/costly. I agree, but what we may view as costly Boeing may view as an investment in their future and may have benefits that we don't know about.

All the federal/state laws about emissions etc and getting certification.

Boeing is ferrying more and more (50+) 747/767/777's to PDX for paint every year as the production rates of the 777 and 787 increase, even though they have the space (and the plans) to put a fourth paint hangar at PAE. They're ferrying 787's from CHS halfway across the US for paint, yet there is room right now for a paint hangar in CHS--why isn't there one.

[Edited 2013-04-13 11:26:16]

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-13 11:31:30 and read 2804 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 39):
They're ferrying 787's from CHS halfway across the US for paint

That makes me wonder if the Airbus plant in Alabama wil get a paint hangar.

Topic: RE: My Prediction For Boeing In Washington State
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-04-13 11:53:57 and read 2777 times.

I'm trying to get my mind around the assumptions of the OP. Boeing has contractually committed to keeping the MAX in Washing will keep other work there.

As to engineering, Boeing pulled engineering from other sites to Washington as Defense spending was cut. So the trend is the opposite way except for production.

Production is what can be moved easiest so it was. The IAM is simply too militant a union and it was getting to the point where aircraft production was not competitive.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 18):
Charleston workers are already hinting that they want to be union again. I see it happening in the near future. I know the IAM is frequently visiting the area again, so that makes me curious on that front.

When Boeing's defense business contracted, I couldn't help but note they were hiring any anti-union employees for Charleston. Those that I know in Charleston think the IAM has little chance. Even if they do recruit, they cannot force dues as in Seattle.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 39):
Boeing is ferrying more and more (50+) 747/767/777's to PDX for paint every year as the production rates of the 777 and 787 increase, even though they have the space (and the plans) to put a fourth paint hangar at PAE. They're ferrying 787's from CHS halfway across the US for paint, yet there is room right now for a paint hangar in CHS--why isn't there one.

Long term, the site that wins is the site that allows the *needed* expansion.


Lightsaber


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/