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Topic: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: lono
Posted 2013-04-04 01:14:11 and read 11429 times.

Hearing AS is committed to bring 3 Q400's to ANC.
These Q400's will initially service ANC -ADQ and ANC-FAI.
Apparently these A/C will not service the SE Alaska market due to lack of bad WX capabilities.
Which I find interesting since ADQ has been known to have some bad WX.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2013-04-04 02:34:33 and read 11268 times.

All of Alaska has been known to have bad WX. Except Anchorage, I suppose, and we just get ridiculous turbulence.

I've been hearing this rumor for nearly a year... I wonder if it will come to fruition. I suspect it will be good for AS; they can reduce costs on some of their marginal routes, hopefully. I doubt they'll be kind enough to pass those cost savings onto their customers (ahem), but one can always hope!

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-04-04 02:40:26 and read 11247 times.

It has been rumored by several people here on A.net that AS would bring the Q to Alaska one day. One would consider your source before going wild with the thought, you have presented.

From what I understand QX is already stretched thin with their 400's, and unless they will reduce flying elsewhere, I'm not sure where the available frames would come from, but who am I to doubt the top minds at AS?

I wonder how well the Q400 will do in the harsh Alaska winters? Likely well, I'd suspect.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-04-04 04:56:26 and read 11063 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):

Is Skywest increasing their CR7 flying for AS? That could free up some Q400s

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: rampbro
Posted 2013-04-04 08:53:28 and read 10539 times.

Quoting lono (Thread starter):
rently these A/C will not service the SE Alaska market due to lack of bad WX capabilities

Aren't the QX birds equipped with a super nice HUD for low-viz conditions? I wonder if the bad WX in question is more about wind/ice and less about fog/low ceiling.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2013-04-04 08:57:29 and read 10524 times.

Quoting rampbro (Reply 4):
Aren't the QX birds equipped with a super nice HUD for low-viz conditions? I wonder if the bad WX in question is more about wind/ice and less about fog/low ceiling.

I believe that AS has some special RNP/GPS/RNAV (not sure the correct term) approaches which they developed and only they are certified for in SE Alaska. This may be what the OPs source was referring to.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2013-04-04 13:19:58 and read 9796 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):

I wonder how well the Q400 will do in the harsh Alaska winters? Likely well, I'd suspect.
Quoting rampbro (Reply 4):
I wonder if the bad WX in question is more about wind/ice and less about fog/low ceiling.

I don't know, but ERAAlaska seems to do okay with their Dash-8-200's.
That said, their airborne stall incident from last September was, in fact, a Dash-8. But that presumably could have been avoided by proper piloting.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-04-04 14:30:38 and read 9105 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
From what I understand QX is already stretched thin with their 400's, and unless they will reduce flying elsewhere, I'm not sure where the available frames would come from, but who am I to doubt the top minds at AS?

This is what I wonder, B. AS is not overloaded with the Qs and AFAIK, for the last couple of years anyway, they pretty much have had to cancel service somewhere in the system to free up a/c availability for new routes/capacity elsewhere. (There used to be some slack necessary in the schedules due to fleet mx/reliability issues but I believe that has lessened lately.) However, I also think I remember hearing that they do have some options for additional new Qs and maybe the used market has a few frames in it as well.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 3):
Is Skywest increasing their CR7 flying for AS? That could free up some Q400s.

Possible but AS does seem pretty tight about increasing the OO arrangement for additional CRJ flying.

We'll have to keep an eye on the existing Q routes to see if flights start disappearing...

bb

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: lono
Posted 2013-04-04 14:52:04 and read 8894 times.

Yes I have been hearing this for a while and coming from an airline career myself I often disregard.
However this time maybe different since the rumor is union generated.
The WX issue has to do with advanced guidance equipment on the jets that is not available n the Q400's.

[Edited 2013-04-04 15:16:30]

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-04-04 15:42:00 and read 8558 times.

Alaska Air Group has made no secret of the fact that Q400 service will eventually occur within the state of Alaska, however the intent is to supplement existing service, not replace it.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: Kaphias
Posted 2013-04-04 16:47:56 and read 8035 times.

Quoting lono (Reply 8):
The WX issue has to do with advanced guidance equipment on the jets that is not available n the Q400's.

Not quite sure what this unavailable equipment might be, considering that everything I can find says that their Q400s are RNP capable.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: lono
Posted 2013-04-04 17:23:03 and read 7753 times.

Kaphias.....Could be special RNP training into SE Alaska? Or perhaps the EAS agreement stipulates 737 equipment?

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: SVA402
Posted 2013-04-04 19:48:56 and read 6942 times.

Everything at Alaska points to this long-term. If you read their financials on their website, the plan over the next 5 years is to get rid of 737-400 combis, and eventually all -400s. There has been no announcement of a replacement plan. Perhaps they will use -700s up there, but as of now -700s have been used almost exclusively for lower load factor SEA-California markets. Investor telephone conferences have also played towards Alaska wanting to get rid of -700s long term. So what's going to happen eventually? I think we'll see Alaska pull out of several of the markets and outsource them to Era/PenAir, and I think we'll see some go to Horizon. Long-term I think that we'll see Alaska serving markets such as ANC, FAI, SIT, JNU, etc with -800s and -900s, and the rest will go to turboprops or outsourcing. While it's not what I'd personally like to see, I understand their desire to make as much money as possible per airplane, and they've stated numerous times that larger airplanes are the way to do that.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2013-04-04 20:09:07 and read 6821 times.

Quoting lono (Thread starter):
Hearing AS is committed to bring 3 Q400's to ANC.
These Q400's will initially service ANC -ADQ and ANC-FAI.
Apparently these A/C will not service the SE Alaska market due to lack of bad WX capabilities.
Which I find interesting since ADQ has been known to have some bad WX.

This is exactly what I've heard as well. I heard it directly from the mouth of a senior VP though. I have no idea where the 3 frames will come from but I'm pretty sure they've already figured that part out. It sounds like this plan is in motion.

As far as the harsh winters in Alaska go, Air Canada uses the Q up in Canada, where winters are harsh as well. Penair uses the Saab in the Aleutians and Era, the Q200 in the same markets Alaska is considering. I don't think Horizon is going to have any problem flying within Alaska using the Q's.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: dashman
Posted 2013-04-04 21:58:12 and read 6341 times.

Horizon has 3 CRJ's coming back from lease. My money is on Skywest will get them, fly longer existing Q400 routes and there are your 3 Q400's to Alaska.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-04-04 22:58:08 and read 6118 times.

Quoting dashman (Reply 14):
Horizon has 3 CRJ's coming back from lease. My money is on Skywest will get them, fly longer existing Q400 routes and there are your 3 Q400's to Alaska.

I think some current Q400 routes that would be candidates to go to the the Skywest CR7s would be the SJC-PDX QX flights, the second SEA-FAT flight and SEA-YEG, LAX-LTO and SEA-YYC. Those were all CR7 routes in the past, as were a few Montana routes like SEA-BIL.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2013-04-04 23:40:20 and read 5944 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15):
I think some current Q400 routes that would be candidates to go to the the Skywest CR7s would be the SJC-PDX QX flights, the second SEA-FAT flight and SEA-YEG, LAX-LTO and SEA-YYC. Those were all CR7 routes in the past, as were a few Montana routes like SEA-BIL.

I agree with all as possibilities except LAX-LTO since it would require a bridge city to get the RJs to LAX.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: atct
Posted 2013-04-05 07:55:52 and read 5500 times.

This has been a rumor for as long as the Q400's have been on property at Horizon. Until it happens its all rumors and speculation.

atct

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: chrisjw
Posted 2013-04-05 09:51:40 and read 5393 times.

The problem with Q400 operating in SE Alaska isn't the WX itself, but the possibility of a diversion. When SE AK get's socked in, it generally affects the whole region, and the Q400 just doesn't have the range to be profitably operate a route AND be able to divert to a suitable airport not in the SE region.

Everything I've heard is that unless there are some snags, you should see a QX Q400 in Alaska around Q4 of this year.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-04-05 10:11:48 and read 5363 times.

Quoting chrisjw (Reply 18):
The problem with Q400 operating in AS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE Alaska isn't the WX itself, but the possibility of a diversion. When AS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE AK get's socked in, it generally affects the whole region, and the Q400 just doesn't have the range to be profitably operate a route AND be able to divert to a suitable airport not in the AS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE region.

Yeah, I saw where an AS 734 went to Whitehorse a few years ago when JNU and the other nearby suitable diversion points were socked in. Sounds like he got to JNU and and FMC failed and couldn't meet the RNP requirements.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: B6WNQX
Posted 2013-04-05 14:11:38 and read 5166 times.

Didn't AS/QX have options for a few more Q400's? I thought I read on a.net awhile back that they were in discussions for a few more. If so, that is where they could come from too.

Edit: It looks like from the 2012 Annual Report is that they have 10 options for the Q400 with delivery dates from 2013 - 2015 if exercised.

[Edited 2013-04-05 14:43:49]

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: PassedV1
Posted 2013-04-06 23:37:02 and read 4742 times.

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 10):
Not quite sure what this unavailable equipment might be, considering that everything I can find says that their Q400s are RNP capable.

There are different levels of RNP. The basic level that almost everyone has is .3, which is also what Horizon has right now. Horizon is expected to get .1 by the summer. Depends on the surrounding terrain, but at least in AS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE Alaska, you need to get down to about a .12/.15 RNP capability in order to get basic CAT I minimums.

AS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE Alaska's system of interlnked RNP Approaches and Departure/Arrival procedures require a .12 authorization to be able to take advantage of them to their fullest.

FAI is basically a big midwest airport with plenty of room for long straight-ins required for CATIII landings. No reason Horizon couldn't operate there.

ADQ - Ironically the conditions around Kodiak are so bad that even RNP doesn't currently really help you. QX will have no harder time getting in then AS does.

So, although I have no idea of the validity of the OP's statement, it does at least ring true from an operational practicality point of view.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: roadrunner165
Posted 2013-04-07 13:42:33 and read 4457 times.

My recent and first Q400 experience left me thoroughly impressed. I would have no problem flying on one from Anchorage to Nome. The issue I see is the lack of cargo space. Nome has 3 737 combis per day presently. I think 3 Q400 flights and one 737 Freighter could do the trick. The challenge I see is that as a passegner I bring a lot of luggage with me. Alaska presently offers three free bags each 50lbs on intra-alaska flights. I wonder if the Q's have enough space to accomoadte that much luggage. Or if they would have to change their luggage policy - which would be very unpopular.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-04-07 14:15:44 and read 4398 times.

Talk is ANC-FAI and ANC-ADQ....looking into removing a row of seats to allow for more checked bags/cargo. QX flights would operate in support of AS flights (mid-day, extra flight) as opposed to replacing all mainline service. Latest I heard was the -700's might be sticking around after all for thinner markets. Maybe the reason being that it will replace some QX flying out of PDX...freeing Q400's to go north. All will become clear soon if the fall start is a reality.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-04-07 14:18:38 and read 4384 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 23):
Latest I heard was the -700's might be sticking around after all for thinner markets. Maybe the reason being that it will replace some QX flying out of PDX..

So that would be PDX-ONT, PDX-BUR and PDX-SMF probably. Aren't the 737-700s mostly used at SNA also? I know AS does sometimes send the -800s to SNA, but aren't the -700s more optimized for that mission?

What about QX Q400s allowing AS to directly serve markets like Dutch Harbor, Valdez, Kenai and Homer?

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: woodsboy
Posted 2013-04-07 22:17:57 and read 4245 times.

Quoting SVA402 (Reply 12):
Long-term I think that we'll see Alaska serving markets such as ANC, FAI, SIT, JNU, etc with -800s and -900s, and the rest will go to turboprops or outsourcing.

We (FAI) get 738s and 739s now, everyday have for years ever since those types evtered service, not sure if you meant that we were going to get them but didnt now...because we do.

All this points to AS ceding the cargo market within Alaska to everyone else. With NAC operting 732s and 733s and Everts with DC-9-30CFs and the building fleet of MD-82SFs (one is already here) the writing is on the wall. The Q400 cant carry any cargo by Alaska standards much less bypass mail so I guess its the beginning of the end of AS being in the cargo game. I dont know how SE Alaska is going to adjust to life with no combis or freighters, neither NAC or Everts has any scheduled to SE Alaska at all but I guess times are changing!

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2013-04-07 22:26:39 and read 4210 times.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 25):
We (FAI) get 738s and 739s now, everyday have for years ever since those types evtered service, not sure if you meant that we were going to get them but didnt now...because we do.

I think he meant that he expects the -700 and -400 to disappear, with the -8/-9 and Q400 filling in the gaps.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 25):
ll this points to AS ceding the cargo market within Alaska to everyone else. With NAC operting 732s and 733s and Everts with DC-9-30CFs and the building fleet of MD-82SFs (one is already here) the writing is on the wall. The Q400 cant carry any cargo by Alaska standards much less bypass mail so I guess its the beginning of the end of AS being in the cargo game. I dont know how SE Alaska is going to adjust to life with no combis or freighters, neither NAC or Everts has any scheduled to SE Alaska at all but I guess times are changing!

Well, perhaps, but rest assured: if there's money to be made by doing it, AS will seize that opportunity.
And I'd say bypass mail would fit in the Q4 just fine, to a point. Especially given that PenAir seems to be providing the majority of it, and they're flying SAABs.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2013-04-08 00:38:33 and read 4233 times.

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 20):
Didn't AS/QX have options for a few more Q400's? I thought I read on a.net awhile back that they were in discussions for a few more. If so, that is where they could come from too.

Edit: It looks like from the 2012 Annual Report is that they have 10 options for the Q400 with delivery dates from 2013 - 2015 if exercised.

I think Bombardier Capital have a few pre-owned Q400s available for lease, they might get three from them - but they better hurry, the aircraft have found quite a few new homes lately.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: snowzilla
Posted 2013-04-08 07:25:11 and read 4115 times.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 26):
All this points to AS ceding the cargo market within Alaska to everyone else. With NAC operting 732s and 733s and Everts with DC-9-30CFs and the building fleet of MD-82SFs (one is already here) the writing is on the wall. The Q400 cant carry any cargo by Alaska standards much less bypass mail so I guess its the beginning of the end of AS being in the cargo game. I dont know how SE Alaska is going to adjust to life with no combis or freighters, neither NAC or Everts has any scheduled to SE Alaska at all but I guess times are changing!

The word is that Alaska is converting (probably, as opposed to buying) 4 700's to freighters, so it doesn't look like they are gonna be giving up any cargo to anyone else.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: atct
Posted 2013-04-08 12:34:59 and read 3926 times.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 21):
ADQ - Ironically the conditions around Kodiak are so bad that even RNP doesn't currently really help you. QX will have no harder time getting in then AS does.

I believe AS has their own approach into ADQ with lower minimums than what the FAA/Jepp publishes. (I'll see what I can dig up at work today). So at minimum the Q's would still beat Era when it comes to getting in and out.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 24):
What about QX Q400s allowing AS to directly serve markets like Dutch Harbor, Valdez, Kenai and Homer?

Homer is flown mostly with B1900s and Dash-8-100's. Grant Aviation recently pulled out of this market (Navajo's and King Air 200's) but I think its more to do with the losing of one of their Navajo's out in Dutch Harbor than poor loads. Pure speculation on my part.

Kenai is flown by Era with Dash 8's and B1900's as well as Grant Aviation with caravans. 4 or 5 Q's a day vs hourly Era and almost every 30 minute Caravans from Grant. Also, with Era and Grant there is open boarding and no TSA. I would rather fly the Caravan or Dash 8 and show up to the gate 15 min before my flight than go through TSA and do the whole speel of check in, TSA, pat down, etc. etc.

Valdez and Dutch are good contenders. The Saab takes a hit on loads going into Dutch. PenAir has removed the last row of seats and enlarged the baggage compartment making it 30 seats. I was a FA on a saab a while back and I cant imagine 30 passengers and heavy bags (think fisherman / cannery workers going to work for 6-8 weeks at a time). I frequently see the all cargo Saab doing Dutch runs during pre/post-fishing season. Grant recently pulled out of Valdez (King Air 200's) leaving Era only with 1900's and Dash 8's.

As stated above other contenders for potential service would be Kotz, Nome, Unk, Cordova, Yakutat, Bethel, Barrow, Deadhorse, Fairbanks, Dillingham, King Salmon, Cold Bay, Iliamna (if the new mine goes through), and Kodiak. Maybe a stretch but seasonal Whitehorse?

Again all speculation, I'll believe it when I see the first Q taxiing from the gate.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: PassedV1
Posted 2013-04-08 19:31:30 and read 3766 times.

Quoting atct (Reply 29):
I believe AS has their own approach into ADQ with lower minimums than what the FAA/Jepp publishes. (I'll see what I can dig up at work today). So at minimum the Q's would still beat Era when it comes to getting in and out.

They basically have two. The ILS 25 let's you down to a 300'DH with 1 3/8 vis requirement and the RNP 36 lets you down to a 330'DH with a 1 mile vis requirement. The problem is 1/3 the time in the winter, there is often visibility below 1 mile due to fog or snow.

Additionally, the good approach is to runway 25, but the prevailing winds are out of the East which makes 25 unusable if the wind gets above 15 knot tailwind component. In the winter when braking action is less than good the max tailwind is 5 knots which is almost always.

If you are lucky and the winds are out of the west, then you are still not out of the woods because you'll be able to land, but the only real DEPARTURE runway is 07 which now probably has a tailwind so you'll either get the jet stuck in ADQ (which they won't let happen on purpose) or you will be severely weight restricted.

36 is sometimes an option but it is short so you are often weight restricted and you still have to deal with the lowered crosswind limits if the braking action is less than good.

What is desperately needed is an RNP approach to 07 but the surrounding terrain makes an RNP solution impossible so far.

Kodiak Overview


The big runway ending at the base of the mountain, slightly to the left of the frame is 25.

[Edited 2013-04-08 19:32:33]

[Edited 2013-04-08 19:44:50]

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: n7371f
Posted 2013-04-08 19:36:27 and read 3754 times.

My understanding is the 734 Combi fleet runs up against its HMV's starting next year and with no replacement in sight, AS plan is to put the 3 Q400's up there in ANC to backfill the initial group of 734's that are retired. What happens beyond that, I have no idea.

The idea to use the Q400 to backfill on the Boeing's out of ANC is essentially the exact same business plan AS has executed at PDX over the past 5 years.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: roadrunner165
Posted 2013-04-11 00:46:01 and read 3479 times.

Yes NAC does have 732’s and 733’s in service but was that not a direct replacment of the 727’s and DC-6s? Everts DC-6s are being replaced by a DC-9 & MD-82 fleet. The major problem Alaska has with the Combi is that with the fixed bulk head its very hard to ge the right mix of passenger and cargo and still make weight and balance.

We’ve also heard the Q400s are eventually coming to Nome and Kotzebue. By putting passengers on with Q400s (plus Goldstreaks) and perhaps once daily 737 freighter service (for goldstreak, prioriry/general and bypass mail) AS can probably better serve certain towns. And yes, Nome can handle a daily 737 freighter service. Lots and lots of cargo.

The question I have is can the Q400s carry much luggage? Alaskans get 3 bags per passenger on intra-alaska flights.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: woodsboy
Posted 2013-04-11 17:23:15 and read 3274 times.

Yes, NAC retired the DC-6s and 727 and brought on line 737s but with the number of 737s they did not by any stretch of the imagination replace all the lift they retired. They have been smaller, eclipsed by Everts Years ago in terms of lift, fleet size and capability. Everts still operates 6-7 DC-6s and 2 C-46s along with the 2 DC-9-30CFs and the soon-to-be-more than one MD-82SF. Also remember that Everts operates their "Air Fuel" operation with more DC-6s and C-46s dedicated to bulk fuel hauling, not the same ones used for cargo.

I havent heard of 737-700s being converted as freighters. I asked a couple of my local AS contacts (former co workers) and they had not heard this. What was mentioned was that the 700 is considerably smaller than the 400 so it could not replace the lift of the combis and 400 freighters.

Back in the day the 732QCs were reconfigured several times a day depending on the demand for pax/cargo. When we got word that they replacement would be fixed bulkhead 734s everyone groaned. Looks like that set-up isnt the greatest. Recently flew to Barrow on a combi with a full load up front and 11 pax in the back with igloos left in FAI. That would never have happened in the days of the 200QC!

I wouldnt be surprised seeing Q-400s on ANC-FAI maybe even ANC-JNU......places that have a larger pax demand than cargo. I also agree that nobody is going to choose AS on a short flight to Valdez or Kenai or Homer when they dont have to go through security flying ERA or Grant. The Q-400 is too much plane for those routes anyway, frequent service throughout the day makes a lot more sense than a couple Q-400s. We love the choice of ERA and the other little guys even between FAI and ANC since you dont have to get to the airport and hour early and your bags come off the plane on the other end in a matter of minutes!

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: EIPremier
Posted 2013-04-12 01:22:16 and read 3084 times.

I, too, wonder where these ANC-based Q400s will come from? QX has gotten rid of 2 Q400s from its fleet, and is now actually stretched rather thin in terms of aircraft (have witnessed quite a few instances where two Q400 SEA-GEG flights are canceled and replaced with 1 mainline 737). Hopefully this will not continue to be a problem stretching into the summer schedule. I hope that the aircraft going up to AK will not be the result of axing or reducing service on existing routes in the lower 48. I'm a little worried about some of the intra-CA service, especially SJC-LAX now that VX is starting that route.

It would certainly be great to see some of the longer Q400 routes replaced with jet service. Anything longer than 90 minutes on a Q400 is just too long, IMHO. I like the Q400, but QX clearly has it configured for short-haul flights (non-reclining seats, no window shades and a single tiny lav with no sink).

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-04-12 13:57:22 and read 2943 times.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 25):
We (FAI) get 738s and 739s now, everyday have for years ever since those types evtered service, not sure if you meant that we were going to get them but didnt now...because we do.

All this points to AS ceding the cargo market within Alaska to everyone else.

Last I'd heard the plan was to eliminate the combis and replace them with extra dedicated freighters, along with keeping the existing freighter. I believe the talk was for 3 or 4 freighters total. So no, AS is not ceding the air cargo market to anyone - far from it.

The combis are inefficient and don't mesh well with the customer experience AS wants to deliver consistently across the network, so they'll eventually have to go.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: atct
Posted 2013-04-12 22:09:59 and read 2764 times.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 33):
soon-to-be-more than one MD-82SF.

Ive been told these will not be operated in Alaska.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: PassedV1
Posted 2013-04-13 21:19:22 and read 2541 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 35):
Last I'd heard the plan was to eliminate the combis and replace them with extra dedicated freighters, along with keeping the existing freighter. I believe the talk was for 3 or 4 freighters total. So no, AS is not ceding the air cargo market to anyone - far from it.

The combis are inefficient and don't mesh well with the customer experience AS wants to deliver consistently across the network, so they'll eventually have to go.

But the 400's are slated to be gone by 2017...Do you really believe that Alaska will run 3 400's in there fleet of 130 NG's?

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 33):
I havent heard of 737-700s being converted as freighters

Boeing actually offers these as an option. 737-700's are also on the chopping block at Alaska as they have the same per seat cost as a 737-400. AS's 737-700's offer no operational advantage other than the fact that AS owns them. If you are going to spend the time and effort to convert an NG to a freighter you might as well use an 800 with a Short Field Kit as you get very similar performance and can carry a couple extra igloos.

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/737family/737_700Cback.page

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: L-188
Posted 2013-04-13 22:45:06 and read 2484 times.

Quoting roadrunner165 (Reply 32):
The major problem Alaska has with the Combi is that with the fixed bulk head its very hard to ge the right mix of passenger and cargo and still make weight and balance.

Pretty much correct.......The FAA got a burr in their butt about ten-fifteen years ago about cargo fires on combi aircraft so they have pretty much regulated them out of existance. That SAA 747 crash in the Indian Ocean had a lot to do with that.

Frankly I think their worries are overblown and just lowered aircraft flexibility and increased costs. But did nothing for safety.

Quoting roadrunner165 (Reply 32):

The question I have is can the Q400s carry much luggage? Alaskans get 3 bags per passenger on intra-alaska flights.

Nope, It you want to fly them in Alaska I think they are going to have to pull seats. That is what Pen-Air did with both their Saab 340s and Metros. I think it was the back two rows that they pulled on the 340'and the backrown on the Metro but dont quote me.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 33):
Also remember that Everts operates their "Air Fuel" operation with more DC-6s and C-46s dedicated to bulk fuel hauling, not the same ones used for cargo

I think they have an Embraer 120 or two floating around too.
I believe those aircraft are operated on Everts 125 certificate, which is essentially a different company that their 121 carrier that flies the cargo. They also operate a 135 operation out of their Fairbanks office at the same time too!

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 33):
Everts still operates 6-7 DC-6s and 2 C-46s along with the 2 DC-9-30CFs and the soon-to-be-more than one MD-82SF

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: yeelep
Posted 2013-04-14 05:41:29 and read 2410 times.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 37):
But the 400's are slated to be gone by 2017...Do you really believe that Alaska will run 3 400's in there fleet of 130 NG's?

Yes, it would be no different than when they had a small subfleet of -200's.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 37):
Quoting woodsboy (Reply 33):
I havent heard of 737-700s being converted as freighters

Boeing actually offers these as an option.

Boeing offers a new build plane, it is not a conversion. I don't know of any NG conversion yet, though it will eventually happen.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 37):
If you are going to spend the time and effort to convert an NG to a freighter you might as well use an 800 with a Short Field Kit as you get very similar performance and can carry a couple extra igloos.

The -800's are worth to much as passenger planes.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 35):
Last I'd heard the plan was to eliminate the combis and replace them with extra dedicated freighters

I see them converting some of the combi's to full freighters. It has to be the cheapest option.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 25):
All this points to AS ceding the cargo market within Alaska to everyone else.

Well, if they get rid of the combi's and fly 3 to 4 -400 freighters they will go from 29 pallets to 27 to 36 pallets of capacity. That does not account for the undersized tenth pallet position on the freighter. So they plan to stay about the same or expand the freight capacity at AS.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-04-14 10:09:47 and read 2323 times.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 38):
The FAA got a burr in their butt about ten-fifteen years ago about cargo fires on combi aircraft so they have pretty much regulated them out of existance.

My understanding is that it's not combi aircraft that's the concern. The FAA doesn't allow moveable bulkheads anymore.

Topic: RE: RUMOR: AS Q400 To ANC
Username: atct
Posted 2013-04-14 21:11:24 and read 2148 times.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 38):
I think they have an Embraer 120 or two floating around too.

First aircraft has left the fleet, the 2nd will not be far behind.


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