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Topic: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-03-29 09:28:45 and read 10922 times.

And another one bites the dust...

Armenia’s national airline, Armavia has filed filed for bankruptcy and will cease flights April 1.

Continued loss making airline was put to sale last year and now its current owner says “it is impossible to continue this way.”

Story:
http://atwonline.com/airlines/armavi...files-bankruptcy-cease-operations?
and
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...-11e2-b5b4-b63027b499de_story.html

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Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: PlymSpotter
Posted 2013-03-29 09:43:43 and read 10844 times.

Sadly inevitable, they've been bankrupt and blaming everyone else for at least a year now.

Hopefully a new venture will be able to operate more profitably.


Dan  

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: Braniff747SP
Posted 2013-03-29 10:21:36 and read 10659 times.

Pity... My flights with them were not bad in the least; hopefully someone will step in and take the EVN market.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-03-29 10:32:22 and read 10566 times.

I think Armenia made mistakes by giving Armavia exclusive rights while refuse entry of others in market.

At the end they still end up with a big loss making venture which now is shutting down.

Instead Armenia should look to adopt open-skies and welcome other companies and nations that can provide service to country.

Its the old failed Soviet thinking to focus on state air company.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-03-29 13:05:28 and read 10192 times.

Apparently they have had to discontinued services early with last flights operating tonight. With news out of their BK, there has been a rush for cash.

No news on what passengers can do holding tickets.

Total bills outstanding are reported to be near $50mil with them owning monies to everyone from ATC and airports, to vendors and $22mil to aircraft lessors.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-03-29 13:29:20 and read 10108 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Apparently they have had to discontinued services early with last flights operating tonight. With news out of their BK, there has been a rush for cash.

That's no real surprise. I'd expect the lessors of their aircraft to try to seize the planes while they're on the ground anywhere outside of Armenia, since they'd have a better bargaining position than if they were forced to deal with Armenian courts/processes which might tend to favor domestic creditors in the bankruptcy. Plus all suppliers (particularly fuel & airports) would demand cash up-front at this point.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-03-29 18:53:04 and read 7945 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
And another one bites the dust...

Sounds like a total mess....but this could be a blow to the SSJ program too, as these guys were the launch customer for the SSJ. Not good at all.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: ATLFlyer323
Posted 2013-03-29 19:06:43 and read 7868 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
this could be a blow to the SSJ program too, as these guys were the launch customer for the SSJ. Not good at all.

No, they had already returned their first SSJ and never took delivery of their second. I do not think this is a blow to the SSJ program.

-ATLFlyer323

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: zkojq
Posted 2013-03-29 23:52:25 and read 6851 times.

Very sad to hear about the end of Armavia; they certainly have one of the most colourful liveries in the world. I hope the loss won't significantly hinder Armenia.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 3):

I think Armenia made mistakes by giving Armavia exclusive rights while refuse entry of others in market.

From the top of my head, I know that Nordstar, Air France, S7, Aeroflot and UtAir all fly to Yerevan, so Armavia doesn't have exclusive rights. BMI also used to fly there, via Georgia.

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 7):
I do not think this is a blow to the SSJ program.

Well:

Quote:
Mikhail Bagdasarov, announced his intention to sell the company last year, but has failed to find a buyer. Bagdasarov attributed Armavia’s troubles to the global economic downturn and losses from using a new Russian-made Sukhoi superjet.

Probably just hot air though.

http://asbarez.com/109105/armavia-airlines-goes-under/

[Edited 2013-03-29 23:56:46]

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-03-30 00:59:36 and read 6594 times.

Shame that Turkish carriers can't fly into Yerevan. Their hubs in Istanbul would offer the fastest and the most direct travel between Armenia and the West. I guess for the time being those travelling to Armenia will have to go via other hubs.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: Skyeurope
Posted 2013-03-30 01:56:15 and read 6295 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 9):
Shame that Turkish carriers can't fly into Yerevan. Their hubs in Istanbul would offer the fastest and the most direct travel between Armenia and the West. I guess for the time being those travelling to Armenia will have to go via other hubs.

Well, Turkish carriers could actually fly to Armenia.

BoraJet announced scheduled Van - Yerevan flights, starting 03.04.13. Sadly, these were already cancelled before operating, as appearently the loads would have been very bad.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-03-30 01:59:31 and read 6277 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 9):
Shame that Turkish carriers can't fly into Yerevan. Their hubs in Istanbul would offer the fastest and the most direct travel between Armenia and the West. I guess for the time being those travelling to Armenia will have to go via other hubs.

Given the history between the two countries, I am not sure how enthusiastically Armenians would fly on Turkish Airlines.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-03-30 03:00:42 and read 5939 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 11):

Actually, I was told by Armenians that this hatred towards the Turks is more obvious among the diaspora and not so much among the Armenians in Armenia. A lot of them speak Turkish and have some sort of economic links to Turkey which angers the rather powerful Armenian diaspora- especially the one in France and the United States.

With Armavia out of the picture, and with Armenia not being the richest country in the world, I am sure that many people would fly via Turkey if the price is right.

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 10):
BoraJet announced scheduled Van - Yerevan flights, starting 03.04.13. Sadly, these were already cancelled before operating, as appearently the loads would have been very bad

Shame that these flights will not take place, however if Pegasus or Turkish Airlines offered connections via SAW and IST I am sure the loads would be better.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-03-30 05:57:02 and read 5201 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 9):
Shame that Turkish carriers can't fly into Yerevan.

Atlasjet has regular charter flights into EVN. I could see TK make a jump for it here and start IST-EVN.

I can also see AF up its service to 4 weekly on CDG-EVN. They were already codesharing with U8 on the route.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: luckyone
Posted 2013-03-30 06:00:08 and read 5176 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 9):
Shame that Turkish carriers can't fly into Yerevan. Their hubs in Istanbul would offer the fastest and the most direct travel between Armenia and the West. I guess for the time being those travelling to Armenia will have to go via other hubs.

Armavia flew into Istanbul for the last several years. Turkish carriers could certainly fly to Yerevan.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-03-30 06:11:40 and read 5115 times.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 8):

From the top of my head, I know that Nordstar, Air France, S7, Aeroflot and UtAir all fly to Yerevan, so Armavia doesn't have exclusive rights. BMI also used to fly there, via Georgia.

As did OK and OS.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
I can also see AF up its service to 4 weekly on CDG-EVN. They were already codesharing with U8 on the route.

??? They already operate 4 weekly flights to EVN.

[Edited 2013-03-30 06:13:37]

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-03-30 06:47:47 and read 4949 times.

Quoting LJ (Reply 15):

??? They already operate 4 weekly flights to EVN.


Until very recently, two of the flights were operated by U8. Dont know when this changed. Maybe AF took the lead and acted quickly to pick up the slack, because I now see 4 weekly flights to EVN in the schedules, all operated by AF.

Their destinations map still says 2 weekly though.

http://www.airfrance.fr/FR/en/common...eau/reseau_airfrance_airfrance.htm

I expect SU, UN and S7 to follow suit and pick up the slack on Moscow-EVN as well.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-03-30 07:00:45]

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: Braniff747SP
Posted 2013-03-30 07:16:44 and read 4812 times.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 8):
BMI also used to fly there, via Georgia


I know for several years they flew direct LHR-EVN; took the service many times myself.

Was this canceled by BA?

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-03-30 07:16:46 and read 4812 times.

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 10):
Well, Turkish carriers could actually fly to Armenia.

BoraJet announced scheduled Van - Yerevan flights, starting 03.04.13. Sadly, these were already cancelled before operating, as appearently the loads would have been very bad.

According to the following article dated March 14, 2013, the flights (charter, not scheduled) are still on for April 3rd.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/149836/

Thenoflyzone

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-03-30 09:22:52 and read 4205 times.

Air services can operate between Turkey and Armenia no problem. There are no legal restrictions on such services by Turkish private enterprises. As mentioned previously Turkish carriers have been flying to Armenia, while Armavia has served Istanbul. There was also recently service between Trabzon and Yerevan.

THY however wont operate the routes until state to state tensions levels recede mostly flared with the occupied Nagorno-Karabak . The land border between Turkey and Armenia remains closed as result.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: Skyeurope
Posted 2013-03-30 11:40:14 and read 4040 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 18):

Definetely scheduled flights.

They were even bookable on borajet.com.tr until about 3-4 days ago.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: blink182
Posted 2013-03-30 11:46:55 and read 4024 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
THY however wont operate the routes until state to state tensions levels recede mostly flared with the occupied Nagorno-Karabak . The land border between Turkey and Armenia remains closed as result.

To clarify, Nagorno-Karabakh is a conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, not Turkey. The Armenia-Azerbaijan border is impassable. I've heard lately that Turkey and Armenia are still frosty but have warmed up a tiny bit, much to the chagrin of Azerbaijan, which is firmly in Turkey's camp. Before anybody flames me in this thread, I'm an expat, so I am personally non-partisan in this affair and keep my mouth shut here.

Turkey and Russia exercise immense control in this region, and if TK or FlyPegasus felt EVN could be profitable, I'm sure they would fly there. A daily TK service via IST could open up EVN to a world of connections that would be difficult to turn down.

Back to the topic, does anybody know how strong airlinks are between TBS and EVN? Or, for that matter, would QR ever open EVN like they have with GYD and TBS?

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2013-03-30 11:57:08 and read 4011 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
Sounds like a total mess....but this could be a blow to the SSJ program too, as these guys were the launch customer for the SSJ. Not good at all.

Not in the least. They barely flew their one aircraft and tried to blame it for their problems. It was just a way to shift attention away from their real financial problems. The SSJ program never did and does not rely on this one aircraft that Armavia had for a quick second.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-03-30 12:07:47 and read 3976 times.

Btw - in the news today - the planned BoraJet Van-Yerevan service scheduled to start on April 3rd is being dropped before it starts.

According to news the Turkish tour operator Ayanis failed to secure enough bookings on the $200/rt route.

Quoting blink182 (Reply 21):
To clarify, Nagorno-Karabakh is a conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, not Turkey.

Indeed, and until it is resolved, Turkey which sides with Azerbaijan interests is keeping formal ties on ice with Armenia.

Quoting blink182 (Reply 21):
if TK or FlyPegasus felt EVN could be profitable, I'm sure they would fly there.

Pegasus could, but TK could not. TK as a national airline must follow policies of Ankara.

This matter of fact was clarified a couple weeks ago when in parliament the question of BoraJet operating services Armenia was brought up. Response from the government was they would not stop a private enterprises that sought to do business with Armenia, however such actions did not change the formal national stance on opening the border or having ties with Armenia.

Also in the recent past there has been air service from Armenia to Turkish tourism markets Antalya and Bodrum bringing Armenian tourist.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 22):
They barely flew their one aircraft and tried to blame it for their problems

In fairness Aeroflot also has lots of issues with the SSJ leading to its grounding.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-03-30 14:36:21 and read 3780 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16):
Until very recently, two of the flights were operated by U8. Dont know when this changed. Maybe AF took the lead and acted quickly to pick up the slack, because I now see 4 weekly flights to EVN in the schedules, all operated by AF.

It was already in the March 21st update (and maybe earlier) of the Skyteam timetable, thus not related to the bankruptcy (unless AF knew they were going bankrupt). Moreover, flight number changes into AF1060/1.

BTW this was already announced by AF. It seems that they issued a press release, however, can't see the date of the press release (though it can't be recent as it isn't listed in the news section).

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-03-30 14:57:42 and read 3834 times.

Looking on Wikipedia, I see most of their fleet is leased. Have any preposition flights occurred?

It is 'interesting' that an airframe launch customer has ceased flying.   Cest la vie.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 3):
Instead Armenia should look to adopt open-skies and welcome other companies and nations that can provide service to country.

I agree. That would do the most to boost their economy.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 3):
Its the old failed Soviet thinking to focus on state air company.

   But sometimes that failure is required to show there is *some* demand.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-03-31 05:59:50 and read 3538 times.

Quoting blink182 (Reply 21):
if TK or FlyPegasus felt EVN could be profitable, I'm sure they would fly there. A daily TK service via IST could open up EVN to a world of connections that would be difficult to turn down.
TK knows very well that a potential IST-EVN flight is profitable. They inquired with the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (SHGM) and the Foreign Ministry, asking for information regarding flight operations to EVN back in 2008, when relations between Turkey and Armenia seemed to be easing.

Obviously, this never materialized, but TK's interest, if nothing else, shows that they are interested in opening up EVN.

http://panarmenian.net/eng/news/27667

Quoting blink182 (Reply 21):
Back to the topic, does anybody know how strong airlinks are between TBS and EVN? Or, for that matter, would QR ever open EVN like they have with GYD and TBS?

U8 has tried EVN-TBS numerous times in recent years, especially when tensions flared between Russia and Georgia and flights between the two countries ceased back in 2008. At the height of U8's operations into
TBS, they had double daily service, but it didn't last long.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-03-31 06:05:25]

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-04-01 05:11:03 and read 3234 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 12):
Actually, I was told by Armenians that this hatred towards the Turks is more obvious among the diaspora and not so much among the Armenians in Armenia. A lot of them speak Turkish and have some sort of economic links to Turkey which angers the rather powerful Armenian diaspora- especially the one in France and the United States.

With Armavia out of the picture, and with Armenia not being the richest country in the world, I am sure that many people would fly via Turkey if the price is right.

Armenia is still a relatively poor country, and the average Armenian does not travel very much.

The Armenian diaspora is much wealthier than the population of the home country, and represent a larger share of the traffic flows to/from Armenia. This is the traffic you want to attract, and as I said earlier TK will have a hard time doing that (assuming they start flying to EVN).

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 25):
It is 'interesting' that an airframe launch customer has ceased flying. Cest la vie.

"Interesting" but sadly not unusual.

The same happened to the launch customers of the B747 (Pan Am), A310 (Swissair) and A330 (Air Inter). I'm sure there are more examples, but those are the ones I can think of right now.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: reifel
Posted 2013-04-01 05:28:54 and read 3183 times.

AZ is also flying to EVN, the market is pretty well served. Some airlines codeshring on Armavia would need to find other solutions, though.
Regarding air travel between Armenia and Turkey, not sure if this is allowed. In any case the border is closed. There is aparently a demand, since there are busses from EVN to Turkey, but they need to pass via Georgia and make a detour due to the closed border.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: b2319
Posted 2013-04-01 05:32:51 and read 3175 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 27):
"Interesting" but sadly not unusual.The same happened to the launch customers of the B747 (Pan Am), A310 (Swissair) and A330 (Air Inter). I'm sure there are more examples, but those are the ones I can think of right now.

How about Air Inter, again, jointly with British Caledonian? Do I need to state the model? I think not.....

Cheers

B-2319

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-04-01 05:36:40 and read 3165 times.

Quoting b2319 (Reply 29):
How about Air Inter, again, jointly with British Caledonian? Do I need to state the model? I think not.....

You're right about BCal, but the other launch customer was Air France. Air Inter ordered a little later.





For anyone who's confused, we're talking about the A320.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: b2319
Posted 2013-04-01 05:59:54 and read 3130 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 30):
You're right about BCal, but the other launch customer was Air France. Air Inter ordered a little later.





For anyone who's confused, we're talking about the A320.

More than happy to be corrected. Why did MSNs 003 and 004 start at Air Inter, then get transferred to Airr France? Is this similar to CX receiving the first ever 330, many, many months after initial flights?

If so, I stand corrected and always make a point of learning something new every day.....!  

Cheers

B-2319

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-04-01 06:14:40 and read 3098 times.

Quoting b2319 (Reply 31):
More than happy to be corrected. Why did MSNs 003 and 004 start at Air Inter, then get transferred to Airr France? Is this similar to CX receiving the first ever 330, many, many months after initial flights?

There were two things at play there.

MSN3 and MSN4 stayed with Airbus for a little while longer, for additional tests, and were not delivered to Air Inter until 1989. The same thing happened with MSN2, which was not delivered to Air France until 1991, almost 4 years after they received their first A320, MSN5. The first A320 delivered to Air Inter was MSN10, in June 1988.

MSN3 and MSN4, along with the rest of Air Inter's fleet, were transferred to Air France in 1997 as part of the shutdown of Air Inter.


As for the launch customers: BCal placed the first order, AF the second order. AF got the first delivery (MSN5, March 1988), BCal the second (MSN6, also March 1988).

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: b738FlyUIA
Posted 2013-04-01 06:58:13 and read 3031 times.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 22):
Not in the least. They barely flew their one aircraft and tried to blame it for their problems. It was just a way to shift attention away from their real financial problems. The SSJ program never did and does not rely on this one aircraft that Armavia had for a quick second.

That is true!! Even off topic but reminds be about SR (Swissair) years ago..

In any case sooner or later truth comes in to light!! Pity about this "Miss-Mgmt" in my Eyes...

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: b2319
Posted 2013-04-01 07:10:19 and read 3013 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 32):

Many thanks for superb info.

For what it is worth, I've managed to fly both the so-called B-Cal A320-100s; G-BUSB/C & the original, aformentioned A330-200; B-HLJ. How cool does that make me?   

Actually, let's get back on topic, shall we.....?

Regards

B-2316

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-01 11:30:38 and read 2819 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 27):
The same happened to the launch customers of the B747 (Pan Am), A310 (Swissair) and A330 (Air Inter). I'm sure there are more examples, but those are the ones I can think of right now.

Swissair was also the launch customer for the DC-9-30, MD-80 and 747-300. They were also the joint launch customer (with KLM) of the DC-10-30.

Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-15 13:11:28 and read 2261 times.

CAPA has story about Armavia.

Interesting even being the sole national airline they only make up 25% of capacity in the Armenia market.

Their top markets were Moscow (48% of their seats), Beirut and Novosibirisk, and Sochi

Some foreign airlines have already increased capacity - Austrian, CSA and Alitalia have increased European frequencies while Russian carriers S7, Aeroflot, Donavia and UTair are also increasing seats.

Story:
http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ion-from-armavia-suspension-104422

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Topic: RE: Armavia Bankrupt; Halt Flights
Username: OD720
Posted 2013-04-16 03:02:33 and read 1801 times.

A very short but interesting read about Armavia and the future of Armenian aviation in general.

http://www.azatutyun.am/content/article/24958412.html


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