Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5738024/

Topic: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: Max Q
Posted 2013-04-13 21:48:24 and read 13060 times.

Amongst all the worlds finest international Airlines it appears to me that EK is at the top, not only in it's size, modern fleet and impressive route system but in the most important yardstick, service.


CX don't seem to be what they were anymore, JAL and ANA are still very good, as for SQ, I don't know, they used to be 'the standard' in Airline service but seem to be taking a back seat these days.


Is Emirates that good ?

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: Max Q
Posted 2013-04-13 22:23:40 and read 12944 times.

Whether or not they are subsidized wasn't really my question, just whether they are seen to be at the top of the industry.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-04-13 22:28:07 and read 12916 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 2):
EK is no more than a spoiled teen with a rich daddy's credit card.

I'm not sure this is a fair characterization, however, EK has certainly benefitted from relatively cheap Export Credit Agency (ECA) financing, which is not availalble to many of its competitors, particularly those from North America & Europe.

[Edited 2013-04-13 22:35:39]

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2013-04-13 22:49:53 and read 12821 times.

How do you define "pre-eminent"? While the growth of EK has been impressive, LH still has many more aircraft, employs more staff and serves more destinations. If you take the LH Group, the figures are even more impressive.

Air France is another European airline that both has more aircraft and serves more destinations than EK, as does British Airways.

Quality of service varies. Many describe LH as "business friendly" but the level of refinement, quality and presentation of food on board, as well as its separate check-in and limousine transfer to the aircraft in Frankfurt for First Class Passengers mean that many rate it highly. And Emirates is routinely bagged for its 10 abreast on the 777.

Quoting weebie (Reply 1):
completely bankrolled by the UAE government.

Is that a fact or an opinion? If the former, can you provide a link to data proving the point? If you could, that would be wonderful because none of EK's detractors in the industry have: not LH, not AF, not AC. Lots of claims made but nothing to back them up, which is a shame because if it were true the evidence would be easy to obtain.

While it is unquestionable that Dubai - EK is owned by a government entity of Dubai, not the UAE - set out to benefit from its location to diversify the economy "after oil", it is perhaps a bit far stretched to suggest that EK is not a proper business.

[Edited 2013-04-13 22:51:30]

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: KU747
Posted 2013-04-13 23:25:00 and read 12741 times.

Who cares about who own EK or how they get funded or where, why, how come ...or....or...etc.
Most passengers do not care about those things.

The bottom line is this:
- Safety.
- Service.
- Network.
- Reliability.
- Convenience.

In Seattle today I met a cab driver from Addis Ababa and told me that he was very happy when EK started SEA route because it was very convenient to connect through DXB .
Do you think he cares about why EK is not public Co. or why EK is funded by the government or .. or...

Passengers tend to choose EK because they like what EK is doing in the air and in the ground.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-13 23:45:29 and read 12670 times.

I would say that they are not. Their service is not what it used to be, neither in business class nor in economy. Their aircraft are uncomfortable due to the ten seats per row and I did not find their crew to be the friendliest. Last time I flew with them I was lucky enough to have a Serbian cabin crew and she told me that a lot of them were tired because of long hours. She told me that after she comes back to Dubai from Larnaca (00:55) she had to go the very next day to Tokyo (09:35). It seems that this is normal for them

Another thing which is important in being a world class airline is to operate out of a first class airport. I personally find Dubai to be an ugly airport- I can't stand it. Not to mention that it is usually overcrowded (at least at the time when the flight from Larnaca arrives).

They have a decent service and their brand is well-know all throughout the world. On top of it all they are safe and they can take you pretty much anywhere these days.

Personally, I find that Lufthansa is the best carrier (at least in Europe). They have a great hub in Munich (though for some reason I prefer Frankfurt) and their product is simple and great. On top of it all, most of the Lufthansa crew are very friendly.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: FCAFLYBOY
Posted 2013-04-14 01:13:29 and read 12471 times.

For service.... 10 years ago possibly, however like many airlines, get too big and service really drops off.

My personal top 10 for service are

1 - EY (always consistent too!)
2 - WY - actually my favourite airline
3 - CX
4 - BA
5 - SQ
6 - MH
7 - EI
8 - KE
9 - NZ
10 - KL

Emirates need to return to form or see a stall in their all-important growth strategy IMO

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: flyingthe757
Posted 2013-04-14 01:19:36 and read 12447 times.

I would not say pre-eminent.

They are big, and getting bigger. There will come a time where they get to big for their own boots and service style will start to fail (going from some comments that's already happening)

They have something a lot of major carriers don't have, and that is a (rumours of course) bottomless pit of money to buy new aircraft. They fly literally EVERYWHERE and I. Sure so e routes don't make the money they want it to, but because it has the brand out there, they can keep flying that route.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-04-14 01:29:55 and read 12409 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 2):
EK is no more than a spoiled teen with a rich daddy's credit card.

To some extent it is flatterring, but flatterring to decieve. Only the mgmt at EK knows what they do to ensure EK keeps runnning as a commercially profitable venture. The last time they got state funding was when they started, way back in 1985.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 7):
She told me that after she comes back to Dubai from Larnaca (00:55) she had to go the very next day to Tokyo (09:35). It seems that this is normal for them

No sir, that seems to be one-off rare event and probably an option offered that the crew would have accepted. It is certainly not Normal.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: JohnClipper
Posted 2013-04-14 03:48:18 and read 12044 times.

Their service is spotty in business. Their FA base is from all over the globe and it shows. last flight I took on them, the FA's were middle eastern and eastern european and british. With your eyes shut, you could tell the difference - that's why I always hope for more middle eastern FAs.

Now QR, that's a different story...First Class all the way!

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: 3rdGen
Posted 2013-04-14 04:05:10 and read 11993 times.

EK is successful because they were the first ME airline to really expand all over the world and take advantage of their cost base to under cut most other airlines. However, this is now changing as the competition catches up.

In terms of safety, you must be kidding because they have had two take-offs that almost ended in disaster in the last ten years, and have had a number of uncontained engine failures. Actually they are within a whisker of having a hull loss, God forbid. This shows problems inside pilot training and engineering.

Its just in the last 10 years or so things have really clicked for EK. It started with the growth of the city of Dubai, building the world's tallest building, the indoor ski slope, biggest mall etc. Then came some innovative products on board EK, First Class suites, ICE etc. They also started a massive advertising campaign so no mater where you were the EK name was flashing in your face. This led to EKs rise.

However, the reality is that both DXB and EK will run their course and the market will mature and change. QR most definitely have the chance to outshine EK, they run a tight ship, however, they are still lacking the airport and the new aircraft. It seems that whatever QR do they can't seem to get things moving. Partly due to bad circumstances (i.e. 787 delays) and secondly due to issues with beaurocracy and the standard of project management and oversight in Doha, which is still third class compared to Dubai.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: flyingthe757
Posted 2013-04-14 04:49:35 and read 11873 times.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 12):

Agree with all that you said there. I would like to think on the QR front, with oneworld entry soon, they will be able to spread further with codeshares and agreements meaning fuller flights?

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2013-04-14 04:58:25 and read 11828 times.

MH, SQ & TG still beat EK for consistency in Cabin Crew any day. Do you see EK ever winning any awards anywhere for their friendly cabin crew?

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: jah718
Posted 2013-04-14 05:25:09 and read 11570 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 2):
EK is no more than a spoiled teen with a rich daddy's credit card.

If EK is a spoiled child then what are half of the US airlines with their bankruptcy protection. I think that EK is not really ahead in service when compared to some European airlines. I think that the likes of LH still have a superior and more genuine service even if the overall hard product may not be the best.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-04-14 06:46:45 and read 10740 times.

Quoting weebie (Reply 1):
etely bankrolled by the UAE government. Not a proper business but more a tool to get people into the Dubai hub which has practically run otu of oil.

We all agree they are profitable, right ?

They are profitable for the reasons UAE decided to create an airline, as any other airlines for their shareholders.

We all agree that EK and other middle east carriers lead the world to look more for quality, enhance equipment and service to survive.

And as for their network, they connect the world as never before, and manage to take full advantage of secondary markets.

Pre-eminent ? I don't think so, but they were the first to lead the change.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2013-04-14 07:11:43 and read 10463 times.

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
it appears to me that EK is at the top, not only in it's size, modern fleet and impressive route system but in the most important yardstick, service.
Quoting jah718 (Reply 15):
I think that the likes of LH still have a superior and more genuine service even if the overall hard product may not be the best.
Quoting chrisrad (Reply 14):
MH, SQ & TG still beat EK for consistency in Cabin Crew any day. Do you see EK ever winning any awards anywhere for their friendly cabin crew?

EK focus the PR on their F and J product. But most pax are Y class and from reading general websites it seems that their multi lingual and cultural cabin crew fail on the service in Y. The hard product is wonderful but the soft product is apparently not that great.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2013-04-14 07:16:50 and read 10408 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 14):
Do you see EK ever winning any awards anywhere for their friendly cabin crew?

I'll let others question the methodology of the various award presenters but here are just some of the awards that EK has received - criteria include high standards of cabin service.

2012:
Air Transport News Awards – Emirates named Gold Airline of the Year
Centre for Aviation (CAPA) Awards – Emirates named Airline of the Year (for the third time)

2011
Frequent Traveller Awards - Skywards wins Best Customer Service, Middle East, Asia & Oceania
Air Transport World Awards - Emirates named Airline of the Year
Airline Passenger Experience Association – Emirates wins Best Overall Passenger Experience (large airline)

My own experiences have been positive. Crew have always welcomed me with a smile, been happy to comply with requests and have even given me presents. But I accept that some people may have had a different experience.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-14 07:23:37 and read 10331 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 3):
Whether or not they are subsidized wasn't really my question, just whether they are seen to be at the top of the industry.

EK service is heavily overrated. It can be very inconsistent. And 10-abreast Y class on all 777s is far from the best. And 7-abreast (with middle seat) in J class on much of their fleet, especially the A332 and A343, is unheard of on any A330/340 operated by major carriers.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-14 07:28:25 and read 10262 times.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 5):
How do you define "pre-eminent"? While the growth of EK has been impressive, LH still has many more aircraft, employs more staff and serves more destinations. If you take the LH Group, the figures are even more impressive.

Air France is another European airline that both has more aircraft and serves more destinations than EK, as does British Airways.

True but that's only a matter of time, they have many aircraft on order and are taking them as fast as they can. For example, EK will take delivery of 17 new A380 aircraft during April 2013 - April 2014. That are impresive numbers.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: questions
Posted 2013-04-14 07:55:22 and read 9982 times.

Quoting KU747 (Reply 6):
In Seattle today I met a cab driver from Addis Ababa and told me that he was very happy when EK started SEA route because it was very convenient to connect through DXB .
Do you think he cares about why EK is not public Co. or why EK is funded by the government or .. or...

And how many times does this cab driver travel to Addis Ababa?

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-04-14 08:19:03 and read 9740 times.

EK has been the first airline to understand the way that VFR, holiday and businesses have became truly global, and how to successfully leverage that and implement an strategy.

I liked the sample of KU747 about the Ethiopian taxi driver in SEA... or just think about a Brazilian family going on holiday to Malaysia, or Chinese workers on a business trip to Africa... those trips were random only 10 or 15 years ago... now they are massive and growing. Euro/US carriers have been much slower to react to this new economic reality stuck in the Western-centric attitude and with their own issues; and definitely EK has the advantage to connect many of the BRICS and West to those countries (i.e. Brazil-Russia/China/India, Russia-India, Europe-China/India, US-India...)

About the service... I think most comments here overrate it. What your average customer wants is a basic standard. And EK gives that (i.e. new planes, independent entertainment system...; which is not always the case in US/Euro carriers). Who cares whether they don't have the best service? Is the iPhone the best phone on the market? Probably not, I am sure there are Nokias or Samsungs with better cameras, better software or hardware... but still everyone is buying iPhones and not Nokias whenever you go on the world.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 2):
EK is no more than a spoiled teen with a rich daddy's credit card.

I am not a big fan of EK or what Dubai represents, but saying that... there are many spoiled kids around the world (almost any other ME carrier to begin with)... but if you don't know where to spend your money smartly, you easily go bankrupt.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 12):
Its just in the last 10 years or so things have really clicked for EK. It started with the growth of the city of Dubai, building the world's tallest building, the indoor ski slope, biggest mall etc. Then came some innovative products on board EK, First Class suites, ICE etc. They also started a massive advertising campaign so no mater where you were the EK name was flashing in your face. This led to EKs rise.

I agree that you cannot understand EK today without Dubai... but you cannot understand Dubai either without Emirates either. Emirates is by far their most recognizable brand around the world.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-04-14 08:34:13 and read 9553 times.

Quoting jah718 (Reply 15):
If EK is a spoiled child then what are half of the US airlines with their bankruptcy protection. I think that EK is not really ahead in service when compared to some European airlines. I think that the likes of LH still have a superior and more genuine service even if the overall hard product may not be the best.

EK ... spoiled brat driving around in a Porsche (daddy has a gas station)

AA, UA, DL ... spoiled junkies in/out of ... uncle (sam) funded rehab   

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-04-14 08:50:02 and read 9400 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 21):
And how many times does this cab driver travel to Addis Ababa?

VFR only ... maybe once in a few years. But there are thousands of them!

The number of Somali and Ethiopian immigrants in the USA will boggle your mind. And it is just one part of the world. Imagine hundreds of thousands of people from different ethnicities going back home from US once in a few years. And then imagine that for other countries all over the world (as LipeGIG aptly puts in his post above).

Regardless, it shows that passengers care more about the service (affordability + safety + reliability + inflight etc put together) more than who runs the country, who bankrolls the airline, and what is the human rights standard in the city outside the airside walls. So the Ethiopian driver analogy was very useful.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: flying-b773
Posted 2013-04-14 09:09:17 and read 9649 times.

EK service is clearly overrated.
Did 4 sectors on Y with them, and the comfort of their A380 is the only factor which wow-ed me.

Food was lousy, cabin service was slow, and attendants were too cold.
Wonder if it is the cultural diversity that EK boasted about which created this problem.

Fortunately, I have to thank the promo fare for giving me a chance to tell myself not to fly them again.
I will be more than happy to fly on Lufthansa over EK, anytime.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: KU747
Posted 2013-04-14 09:33:54 and read 9392 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 21):
And how many times does this cab driver travel to Addis Ababa?

You will be surprised to see hundreds and hundreds of Ethiopian cab drivers in Las Vegas and in Washington DC.
My point is EK build the name in the back of a lot of people.
If you notice on A.net one of the most discussed airlines is EK !!!!

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-04-14 09:33:57 and read 9693 times.

While EK is more in your face than Singapore, in business, on very long flights, SQ still own the high ground. Although EK is great too. The fact SQ don't shout as loud also is in keeping with their taste. The long haul business class product is the best that I have encountered. Lufthansa has a mind blowing, spectacular NEW First Class and lounge. But until LH has removed ALL of their angled lie flat seats in business I will avoid them at all cost. The fact they charge the same as SQ for business is just wrong! Or Swiss for that fact, odd that LH owns NEW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX, but NEW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX has a far better hard product. IMHO: United business is better than LH only because the seat is decent on UA, for me, sleep rules over all else, I scratch my head about how LH chose that angled seat??? What were they thinking? It is so uncomfortable.

If I have to fly from Brazil to someplace in Europe (a trip I do a few times a year) I would choose NEW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX over any other.

I put SQ and NEW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX on top. (but I haven't flown Thai or ANA or CX long haul)

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ncfc99
Posted 2013-04-14 09:57:06 and read 9409 times.

Quoting weebie (Reply 1):
completely bankrolled by the UAE government. Not a proper business but more a tool to get people into the Dubai hub which has practically run otu of oil.

Completely bankrolled by the UAE goverment, to the tune of a few $M in start up capital.......

A tool to get people to Dubai that happens to run as a business and generate profits.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 2):
Oh boy, another pecker contest.

EK is no more than a spoiled teen with a rich daddy's credit card.

Typical baseless comment about EK

Quoting ASA (Reply 23):
EK ... spoiled brat driving around in a Porsche (daddy has a gas station)

But the Porsche is full of passengers generating a good yeild.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-14 10:12:53 and read 9276 times.

I still don't understand why some people are so bothered by the fact that Dubai funds/funded Emirates?
It is not their exclusive right and if certain countries around the world were not obsessed with neo-liberalism or corruption maybe today we would have more airlines of this kind.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-04-14 12:29:52 and read 8153 times.

It depends on how you value the service and whether they meet your needs. What the OP is asking cannot really be given a definitive answer. It is so subjective and depends how you define pre-eminent. Sure it is in your mind if you want it to be but for me there really isn't a "pre-eminent" airline except the one that I would be flying next.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-04-14 12:54:12 and read 7933 times.

Quoting jah718 (Reply 15):
If EK is a spoiled child then what are half of the US airlines with their bankruptcy protection
Quoting ASA (Reply 23):
EK ... spoiled brat driving around in a Porsche (daddy has a gas station)

AA, UA, DL ... spoiled junkies in/out of ... uncle (sam) funded rehab   

How exactly did U.S. airlines get lump in to this conversation, most U.S. airlines have no problem with EK and as it stands right now EK does not pose a serious threat to U.S. carriers. Ek poses more of a threat to European carriers than U.S. carriers which is where the problem comes in.

While EK is being supported in some ways by the U.A.E. government U.S. carriers most certainly are not. The bankruptcy laws in this country were not written solely to prop up the airline industry those laws were written to protect all businesses and ALL businesses in this country small, medium and large and in every industry use the same bankruptcy laws to either restructure or liquidate their businesses.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-04-14 14:35:22 and read 7095 times.

Quoting jah718 (Reply 15):
If EK is a spoiled child then what are half of the US airlines with their bankruptcy protection.

Aging Baby-Boomers with Government funded health-care and retirement; both guaranteeing to keep them alive for longer but not promising anything in terms of quality of life?

BTW, in answer to the post's question, I had to get an accurate definition of pre-eminence. So...

Pre-eminence: Superior to or notable above all others; outstanding.

Well their modern fleet, DXB hub infrastructure, global network and reach all certainly are. One can jump on an EK plane in most of the world's major cities and head to another major city on the other side of the world in one (or two stops) with Emirates - and you get to stop in the modern world's Babylon. There's parity (or worse) with most other decent airlines in all other areas.

[Edited 2013-04-14 14:48:47]

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-04-14 16:48:09 and read 6341 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 29):
But the Porsche is full of passengers generating a good yeild.

Let's call it a Porsche limo service for the world! 
Quoting JU068 (Reply 29):
I still don't understand why some people are so bothered by the fact that Dubai funds/funded Emirates? It is not their exclusive right and if certain countries around the world were not obsessed with neo-liberalism or corruption maybe today we would have more airlines of this kind.

Actually ... contrary to my jokes, I am totally okay with the Emirates structure and the UAE govt involvement. As long as they are not providing free oil or free services in special arrangements given to ONLY them, and not other business entities in UAE, they are playing a fair game, and very good at that! People here have accused of many FREE services to EK from the UAE govt, but we have never seen any evidence of that. If UAE has ZERO tax on businesses, so be it, that's for all the businesses in UAE ... if other countries want to compete, they have to come up with their own tools.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: bueb0g
Posted 2013-04-14 17:07:51 and read 6232 times.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 12):
In terms of safety, you must be kidding because they have had two take-offs that almost ended in disaster in the last ten years, and have had a number of uncontained engine failures. Actually they are within a whisker of having a hull loss, God forbid. This shows problems inside pilot training and engineering.

I would characterise this assessment as unfair. Plenty of airlines have had erroneous takeoff data incidents in the last decade, including Virgin, Thomson, Thomas Cook etc. These isolated events don't reflect on an overall safety problem, and in both cases, the crew saved the situation (admittedly after causing it). Uncontained engine failures again have not been an outstanding issue compared to most other airlines, and are often not directly caused by the airline's mx. By this analysis, almost every airline under the sun is "unsafe".

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: eljas
Posted 2013-04-14 18:49:41 and read 5776 times.

Every airline has it's heyday. In the 70's and 80's it was the US carriers, Pan Am, UA, AA, TWA etc that dominated. The 90's and 00's was the turn of the Europeans, BA, LH, KL, AF etc. Then the far east had it's turn, SQ, CX. Now the middle east is becoming a key player with EK, QR and EY.

The point I'm trying to make is that the industry is constantly evolving. If we look back just 10-15 years, BA were introducing the first fully flat bed in J class. Now BA's J product (already a newer generation) is far from industry leading. Looking forward the same period, we may well see that EK's product has stagnated, with a fleet too huge to keep consistent and up to date.

Meanwhile, US airlines are emerging from heavy consolidation and restructuring as leaner, more efficient businesses. DL and AA are certainly catching up with the European majors in terms of both hard and soft product. The Europeans are also restructuring their businesses to minimise their losses to the middle eastern carriers, as well as investing heavily in new aircraft (BA, LH) and improving the seats. I would say that LH and BA's on board service in all classes is still better than EK.

SQ and CX both still have far superior products to EK, but no doubt will continue to enhance them if they feel under threat.

Although EK may be considered dominant now, I think this will be short-lived. As someone has already said, they may well get too big for their own boots, and then the consistency of service will drop, and they'll find it hard to keep up with such a large fleet.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-04-14 20:30:55 and read 5284 times.

Quoting weebie (Reply 1):
completely bankrolled by the UAE government. Not a proper business but more a tool to get people into the Dubai hub which has practically run otu of oil.

You should be happy they're not acquiring foreign carriers, we all know who's the #1 candidate to become an EK owned airline!   

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-04-14 20:40:15 and read 5211 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 23):
AA, UA, DL ... spoiled junkies in/out of ... uncle (sam) funded rehab

Could you explain what you mean by Uncle Sam funded rehab. If you are referring to a bailout then you better check your facts and what has this got to do with EK? I have no idea what you are talking about, please elaborate.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-04-14 20:48:04 and read 5162 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 21):

What kind of question is that? How does that help answer a single point made here?

Talk about "far reaching"  

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-04-14 20:57:44 and read 5131 times.

So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?

It appears that while EK may not be pre-eminent in the world, it certainly in the most PRE-EMINENT airline in these forums......

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-04-14 22:12:16 and read 4849 times.

EK may not be pre-eminent, but I love everything about them, it creates a positive image in my mind, I have travelled with them and did not care about any negative aspects, I don't like overly friendly crew there was one on EK and I found her quite annoying, do your job put on an occasional smile when dealing with people that's all I want, then theres the PTV and all the nice stuff in there, the warm interior décor, food wasn't great but not bad either, new planes, nice branding,, multinational staff, a truly global airline, I'd choose them over any airline, but they are more expensive on some routes, even Etihad and Qatar don't excite me or create the kind of image EK does in my mind.

747s used to be ten abreast no body cribbed abut them.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: eljas
Posted 2013-04-14 23:10:22 and read 4742 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 40):
747s used to be ten abreast no body cribbed abut them.

True, but I believe the interior cabin width of the 744 is slightly larger than the 777. Not much, maybe, but enough to make a difference.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: hohd
Posted 2013-04-15 06:59:45 and read 4328 times.

Quoting jah718 (Reply 15):

Good point. Practically no other country has such generous bankruptcy laws. CO and US were in bankruptcy twice, and yet all airlines are flying or acquired when successful. If a true bankruptcy exits, none of these US airlines will be anywhere as profitable now as they will have continue to pay some of the investors who lost lot of money.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-04-15 07:09:00 and read 4301 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 37):
Could you explain what you mean by Uncle Sam funded rehab. If you are referring to a bailout then you better check your facts and what has this got to do with EK? I have no idea what you are talking about, please elaborate.

Yes ... I meant bailout. To be best of my knowledge, UA, DL, AA (and US and CO too) all went through bankruptcy atleast once since 2001 ... please correct me if I am wrong. It has nothing to do with EK. One of the posts compared EK to them in terms of receiving govt "help". That was my cartoonish comparison.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: YTZ
Posted 2013-04-15 07:22:11 and read 4263 times.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/preeminent

By what definition is EK the preeminent carrier? They aren't the biggest. They are certainly not the best at service. Maybe by marketing....

There was a time EK was great. And they lead the way. Not any more. That said, they maybe the preeminent airline by profit...

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-04-15 07:28:34 and read 4255 times.

Quoting hohd (Reply 42):
none of these US airlines will be anywhere as profitable now as they will have continue to pay some of the investors who lost lot of money

The "investors" (shareholders) are always at risk to lose their entire investment once bankruptcy is declared, it's the secured and unsecured creditors, including pension holders, that get the severe haircuts during a prolonged bankruptcy process.

[Edited 2013-04-15 07:31:07]

[Edited 2013-04-15 07:32:30]

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-04-15 08:15:06 and read 4157 times.

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 28):
to the tune of a few $M in start up capital.......

$10million in start-up funding and a couple of 2nd hand 727s, to be precise.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2013-04-15 08:20:03 and read 4147 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 46):
$10million in start-up funding and a couple of 2nd hand 727s, to be precise.

I thought they were 737's? See;


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ger Buskermolen

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ncfc99
Posted 2013-04-15 08:28:37 and read 4124 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 46):
Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 28):to the tune of a few $M in start up capital.......
$10million in start-up funding and a couple of 2nd hand 727s, to be precise.
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 47):
I thought they were 737's?

According to Wiki, they leased a 737 and an A300 from PIA, they also had the use of 2 727's.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-04-15 08:39:37 and read 4079 times.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 47):
I thought they were 737's? See;

I was referring to the two 727s that Emirates received as a gift from the Dubai Air Wing:

A6-EMA 727-2M7 c/n 21951 (ex A6-HRR)
A6-EMB 727-264 c/n 22982 (ex A6-HHM)

Anyone that decries turning $10million and two second-hand 727s into what EK is today is missing the bigger picture by a considerable margin.

Back on topic, are they the World's pre-eminent airline? Does any other airline fly to as many international destinations?

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2013-04-15 08:43:40 and read 4058 times.

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 48):
According to Wiki, they leased a 737 and an A300 from PIA, they also had the use of 2 727's.
Quoting scbriml (Reply 49):
I was referring to the two 727s that Emirates received as a gift from the Dubai Air Wing:

Thanks, I didn't know that!   

Quoting scbriml (Reply 49):
Anyone that decries turning $10million and two second-hand 727s into what EK is today is missing the bigger picture by a considerable margin.

Even with the low labor costs and tax structure in the UAE I absolutely agree. It's just a really well run airline...

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: 3rdGen
Posted 2013-04-15 09:01:34 and read 4003 times.

With all this talk about being funded by the govt, I think people have to realize one thing. Overall the modus operandi is that Dubai, as a single government entity made up of many comapnies, make an overall profit. Dubai has nothing in the way of oil or gas, close to zilch, maybe a barrel here or there, but nothing compared to Qatar or Abu Dhabi and the Al-Makhtoum family that run Dubai are and were shrewd business men and do not have money coming out of the ground which they can continuously throw at projects with their eyes closed. (This by the way is why Dubai is so efficient with the implementation of their plans compared to countries like Qatar). Look what happened during the Credit Crisis, they didn't have vast reserves of money to keep them safe, they had major problems and had to sell off a lot of their assets. So you won't see the government giving money to the airline which they are free to burn off without some return a la QR, EY, KW. Even if a flight loses money the tourists into Dubai and their Duty Free sales etc. will give them a net profit overall.

Therefore, this talk of free money to EK is bogus. There has to be an overall return to the country of Dubai in one way or the other. A subsidy is free money that is given out without any real return required, if at all. EK at the end of the day is an investment, it makes Dubai a profit, if not immediately on the flight, then overall based on tourist revenue etc. If anyone is receiving free money its QR and EY. I think that if countries like Canada, UK calculated that giving money to their airlines would boost the economy over and above placing money else where they would also send money the way of their airlines. But their economies have matured and as such it isn't a good investment for them to make. This is in contrast to decades ago where improved connections via air was making a big difference to their countries economy.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 34):

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 12):
In terms of safety, you must be kidding because they have had two take-offs that almost ended in disaster in the last ten years, and have had a number of uncontained engine failures. Actually they are within a whisker of having a hull loss, God forbid. This shows problems inside pilot training and engineering.

I would characterise this assessment as unfair. Plenty of airlines have had erroneous takeoff data incidents in the last decade, including Virgin, Thomson, Thomas Cook etc. These isolated events don't reflect on an overall safety problem, and in both cases, the crew saved the situation (admittedly after causing it). Uncontained engine failures again have not been an outstanding issue compared to most other airlines, and are often not directly caused by the airline's mx. By this analysis, almost every airline under the sun is "unsafe".

I don't know, its strange to me that they've had two uncontained engine failures on their 330 engines while I have not heard of a single one anywhere else in the world. Secondly, they have had two major issues with the same error of take-off speeds. I can understand when an airline has one incident, but when they have the same incident over again you have to question what is going on.

Anyway, all I wanted to point out is that they are not over and above anyone else in terms of safety, in my opinion they are a little below the curve, but even if you want to argue that they have had their fair share of incidents just like other airlines then that still leaves them as an average airline in terms of safety and not one with a stellar record as some would believe.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-04-15 10:00:08 and read 3890 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 45):
$10million in start-up funding and a couple of 2nd hand 727s, to be precise.

I remember those days ... one of the first routes were a twice weekly DXB-KHI-DAC on those 727s.

EK now serves THRICE DAILY 77W to DAC ... lol   

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: AirCalSNA
Posted 2013-04-15 10:30:55 and read 3853 times.

I don't think so. Emirates is more of a boutique airline serving places that most Westerners and Chinese have no desire or need to fly to. That's why they fly so few passengers compaed to the major international airlines.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-04-15 12:15:22 and read 3713 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 48):
Anyone that decries turning $10million and two second-hand 727s into what EK is today is missing the bigger picture by a considerable margin.

What an amazing ROI...

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 52):
That's why they fly so few passengers compaed to the major international airlines.

Huh? EK is #8 by RPK and #5 by freight ton kilometers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_largest_airlines

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-04-15 12:52:46 and read 3652 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 53):
Huh? EK is #8 by RPK and #5 by freight ton kilometers.

I believe AirCalSNA may have missed the sarcasm emoticon off his post.   

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ncfc99
Posted 2013-04-15 13:15:30 and read 3619 times.

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 52):
Emirates is more of a boutique airline serving places that most Westerners and Chinese have no desire or need to fly to

How can you describe the #8 by RPK airline as a boutique airline. The use of the word boutique indicates its small/niche airline flying a few routes, EK is anything but. I flew MAN-LHR-HKG-SYD-BNE a few years ago, I saw an EK plane at every airport, many westerners would like or need to travel to those airports. EK may not fly to many places you want to go to, and it may not be the most conveinient airline for most flights to and from the USA, but it your sweeping statement is baseless.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: AirCalSNA
Posted 2013-04-15 13:47:59 and read 3552 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 54):
I believe AirCalSNA may have missed the sarcasm emoticon off his post.

I appreciate the benefit of the doubt, but I was actually being serious. Airlines are businesses, and Emirates is way down the list when it comes to moving people. According to the Wikipedia link they aren't even in the top 10 when it comes to number of passengers flown last year. And Delta and United both fly twice as many passenger-kilometers than Emirates, which is also exceeded by all of the major US and European carriers. Here in SF we have one Emirates 777 daily to Dubai, I believe, which is of course very cool. And I know they tout their posh service. To me a small player that emphasizes its "specialness" is the epitome of a boutique, and by definition not preeminent, business. But you might have a good argument that they are the preeminent boutique airline.  Wink

[Edited 2013-04-15 13:53:08]

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: YTZ
Posted 2013-04-15 13:56:12 and read 3541 times.

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 52):
I don't think so. Emirates is more of a boutique airline serving places that most Westerners and Chinese have no desire or need to fly to. That's why they fly so few passengers compaed to the major international airlines.

Only clueless Yanks who don't travel much beyond the US would make such a ridiculous argument.

EK has grown tremendously. And a lot of that growth is specifically because they service destinations that Westerners and Asians want to fly to in Asia and Africa.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-04-15 14:32:40 and read 3483 times.

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 56):
I appreciate the benefit of the doubt, but I was actually being serious.

Oh dear.   

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: solarflyer22
Posted 2013-04-15 16:54:17 and read 3358 times.

I would agree that Emirates is probably #1 or pretty close. I think having a great home airport and being able to recruit flight attendants from around the world really helps a great deal. Truthfully, as a passenger you are really only going to interact with the flight attendants the most. I've always appreciated that on each plane you got a mix of westerners and easterners who are all very good at what they do. They can get visas easily to the UAE so more power to them.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-04-15 17:02:48 and read 3341 times.

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
Amongst all the worlds finest international Airlines it appears to me that EK is at the top, not only in it's size, modern fleet and impressive route system but in the most important yardstick, service.

It's not a level playing field. EK is not publicly owned so the don't have to answer to shareholders. They are owned by the royal family and an arm of Dubai, Inc. They do not operate in a democracy or a country that strictly enforces human rights, especially labor laws.
To me personally LH is still the most succesfull and best airline in the world and I don't see that changing any time soon. EK wouldn't last 6 months operating in the same environment as LH, BA, etc, have to operate in.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-04-16 06:27:56 and read 3022 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 59):
It's not a level playing field. EK is not publicly owned so the don't have to answer to shareholders. They are owned by the royal family and an arm of Dubai, Inc. They do not operate in a democracy or a country that strictly enforces human rights, especially labor laws.

This is a BIG can of worms!!!

In the real-life market, companies that are publicly owned are competing with private companies everyday. Nobody bothers how much is owned by who, and which angel prince is owner of which company. And on top of that, many of our beloved publicly listed companies operate far away factories and manufactering centers, where none of the democracy, human or labor rights exist. But we don't question if APPLE (for example) is the pre-eminent brand of the world right now ...

Just saying ...

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-04-16 06:58:16 and read 2974 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 60):
In the real-life market, companies that are publicly owned are competing with private companies everyday. Nobody bothers how much is owned by who, and which angel prince is owner of which company. And on top of that, many of our beloved publicly listed companies operate far away factories and manufactering centers, where none of the democracy, human or labor rights exist. But we don't question if APPLE (for example) is the pre-eminent brand of the world right now ...

Uh, maybe investors do bother? There are "quality" carriers that would not exist if they were publicly traded (i.e. Oman Air, more than probably Etihad or Qatar). Of course, as a consumer, you don't care, specially if they offer better service at a lower price.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: YTZ
Posted 2013-04-16 07:03:04 and read 2966 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 59):
It's not a level playing field. EK is not publicly owned so the don't have to answer to shareholders. They are owned by the royal family and an arm of Dubai, Inc. They do not operate in a democracy or a country that strictly enforces human rights, especially labor laws.
To me personally LH is still the most succesfull and best airline in the world and I don't see that changing any time soon. EK wouldn't last 6 months operating in the same environment as LH, BA, etc, have to operate in.

That speaks to the inadequacy of Western democracies in being able to build successful enterprises.

To start with, why blame Dubai for investing in their hub when other countries simply aren't willing to invest in aviation? And why blame EK for its shareholders (the Dubai Royals) taking longer view than shareholders in North America or Europe? You argue that they don't have to answer to shareholders. I'd argue that their shareholders care about running a profitable business just as much as the next guy. It's just that they look beyond quarterly numbers and take a 10-year view of their business.

As for labour rights. Isn't it interesting, how despite their apparently abhorrent record, people from all over the world flock to work there? Could you explain why that is? Ultimately, EK is an airline that survives only by playing in the global labour market (particularly for their most skilled staff like pilots and aircraft mechanics). As such, they have to pay globally competitive compensation.

I get the complaints over flight attendants and I'm not sympathetic at all. I don't agree with glorified waitresses having tenured employment. Emirates works its unskilled and low-skilled staff, like FAs, like McDonald's would. They hire young people and work them hard for a few years. Let them see the world. And let them move on after. What is messed up is that union structures in the West protect such low-skilled employment. There is no reason why any Western airline cannot and should not be allowed to hire FAs or counter staff on contracts and simply not renew them after a few years.

But I agree that overall when it comes to service or network, I don't think EK is the best. There are other airlines with better service. And there are other airlines with a bigger network.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-04-16 07:10:59 and read 2959 times.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 62):
As for labour rights. Isn't it interesting, how despite their apparently abhorrent record, people from all over the world flock to work there? Could you explain why that is?

Inability to find employment, at least in the airline industry, elsewhere. Of course many people who work in this industry in the "developed world" leave their positions because of poor working conditions as well.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-04-16 08:32:11 and read 2858 times.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 62):
As for labour rights. Isn't it interesting, how despite their apparently abhorrent record, people from all over the world flock to work there? Could you explain why that is? Ultimately, EK is an airline that survives only by playing in the global labour market (particularly for their most skilled staff like pilots and aircraft mechanics). As such, they have to pay globally competitive compensation.

Please, don't be cynical.

Air hostesses... it is way easier to be recruited for EK (or QR or EY) that for any major Euro or US carrier (just a matter of numbers). If you are a 23 y.o. girl from Bulgaria, which are the chances to be recruited by Lufthansa or Swiss? Or even a local carrier to fly to Varna or Burgas? Dubai offers you free housing and travelling on an A380 to Manila today or Rio tomorrow. At that age, it is exciting and easy. But how long will they stay there?

As for the pilots... it is probably the only ones who are offered really much better salary and working conditions that in the West... because they are in the peak of the job pyramid there. Nothing else. And again, many of those workers are there because there are no jobs in the West... I was reading the other day that 40% of the ex-Spanair pilots had been recruited by QR... which would be their chances to get a job in Europe today? 0.1%?

Regarding the lower skilled workers... better not to mention that!

[Edited 2013-04-16 08:34:12]

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2013-04-16 08:47:12 and read 2830 times.

Strikes me as being pretty pointless asking whether they, or any airline, is the pre-eminent airline given the subjective nature of it.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: aerokiwi
Posted 2013-04-16 09:48:01 and read 2735 times.

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 55):
I appreciate the benefit of the doubt, but I was actually being serious. Airlines are businesses, and Emirates is way down the list when it comes to moving people.

Funny because they take me to where I want and need to go a helluva lot more than ye olde Americana carriers. But you know, only 6.7 billion people in the rest of the world... not worth thinking about their travel habits.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 56):
Only clueless Yanks who don't travel much beyond the US would make such a ridiculous argument.

Sadly, seems like it.

I think that if you average out all the factors that one would include in considering the "eminence" of an airline, EK would likely come out on top. sure they're service isn't quite at the SQ-level, but it's a damn sight better than most carriers and their IFE is still the best I've ever encountered. Their network is vast, their business diversified, their fleet truly impressive, their safety record pretty top notch (touch wood), brand recognition is through the roof, they sponsor a huge variety of local and international events, they're a boon to their home country and on top of all that, hugely profitable.

Average that out and yup, I think EK comes out on top.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-16 11:31:46 and read 2641 times.

Quoting eljas (Reply 39):
Quoting 777way (Reply 40):
747s used to be ten abreast no body cribbed abut them.

True, but I believe the interior cabin width of the 744 is slightly larger than the 777. Not much, maybe, but enough to make a difference.

Exactly. The wider 747 cabin makes a big difference. I have always found 10-abreast on 747s perfectly acceptable. Go from a 10-abreast 747 to a 10-abreast 777 and you will immediately notice the difference.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: gasman
Posted 2013-04-16 16:12:54 and read 2505 times.

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
Is Emirates that good ?

No.

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 9):
Their service is spotty in business. Their FA base is from all over the globe and it shows.

Completely agree

Quoting flying-b773 (Reply 23):
Food was lousy, cabin service was slow, and attendants were too cold.

. My experience also

Quoting flying-b773 (Reply 23):
Wonder if it is the cultural diversity that EK boasted about which created this problem

I think It could well be, yes. You tend to get British Jolly Hockey-Sticks one minute, Asian quietness the next with Middle Eastern whatever in between. The service has no particular "brand" and the overall quality and attentiveness is poor.

My experience on EK is F Class AKL-AMS return and three trips across the Tasman in either F or J. The hard product is acceptable. I don't find the F class seats particularly comfortable. The soft product is all over the place. Food can be good, or can be dreadful. Cabin service seems to have no particular pattern and is generally lacking in insight (particularly in F). I flew J on AKL-MEL a few days ago and no-one even acknowledged me until 10 minutes after I had boarded the aircraft.

I have also flown many long haul trips on SQ in the premium classes; and SQ beats EK easily. Not even in the same ballpark. The only point on which EK scores is in IFE.

Is Emirates a good airline? Yes. Is it as good as all the hype would lead you to believe? Not even close.

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: YTZ
Posted 2013-04-16 16:51:37 and read 2437 times.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 63):
Inability to find employment, at least in the airline industry, elsewhere. Of course many people who work in this industry in the "developed world" leave their positions because of poor working conditions as well.
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 64):
Air hostesses... it is way easier to be recruited for EK (or QR or EY) that for any major Euro or US carrier (just a matter of numbers). If you are a 23 y.o. girl from Bulgaria, which are the chances to be recruited by Lufthansa or Swiss? Or even a local carrier to fly to Varna or Burgas? Dubai offers you free housing and travelling on an A380 to Manila today or Rio tomorrow. At that age, it is exciting and easy. But how long will they stay there?
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 64):

As for the pilots... it is probably the only ones who are offered really much better salary and working conditions that in the West... because they are in the peak of the job pyramid there. Nothing else. And again, many of those workers are there because there are no jobs in the West... I was reading the other day that 40% of the ex-Spanair pilots had been recruited by QR... which would be their chances to get a job in Europe today? 0.1%?

Don't blame the ME3 for any of this. Blame Western governments that aren't interested in facilitating aviation. For the UAE and Qatar, aviation is a strategic industry. Here in Canada, our government treats aviation like a cash cow through airport rents. And in Europe, aviation is seen as an annoyance at best.

This has created the situation where people have to moved to find work. Yet, you'll find that EK/EY/QR don't underpay pilots or techs or business staff.

As for FAs, EK is no different than say FR. Neither airline incentivizes young FAs to make a career of it. It should no more be a "career" than waitressing. That hypothetical young girl from Bulgaria should go work for EK for a few years, travel the world, party in DXB and move back home and get a real career when she's matured. There is no sense in forcing an airline to professionalize waiters and waitresses. I am not saying that flight attendants don't work hard. They certainly do. But it's a job which requires few skills and very little training. It's a low skill occupation which should really be biased towards transient employment. Very few people would consider a waitress gig (with the exception of the most high-end restaurants....and in that case waitressing actually requires skill) to be worthy of a full time career. Why then do people think it's a human rights violation for EK to simply have an incentive structure that encourages FAs to only work for a few years at the airline?

Topic: RE: So Is Emirates Todays Pre-eminent Airline?
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-04-16 18:41:12 and read 2371 times.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 69):
Blame Western governments that aren't interested in facilitating aviation. For the UAE and Qatar, aviation is a strategic industry.

Over the decades the airline industry has received untold billions in direct and indirect subsidies from "Western Governments." After decades of such "strategic investments" from government, the "training wheels," in large measure, remain firmly attached where the airline industry is concerned. The UAE and Qatar are autocratic regimes, one wonders if their aficionados/apologists on A.net would be quite so willing to give them a free pass on their "soft autocracy" if their premier industry was steel rather than air transport?


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/