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Topic: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: bpat777
Posted 2013-04-04 17:16:02 and read 21803 times.

Just read that AA will start to use logo lights on their aircraft soon. I think the tails will look nice illuminated at night.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: contrails
Posted 2013-04-04 17:19:21 and read 21797 times.

It will look nice, but how much will it cost?

AA is spending a lot of money on paint and lighting for a company in bancruptcy proceedings.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: toobz
Posted 2013-04-04 17:19:53 and read 21791 times.

Bleh..that's one tail that should stay unlit.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-04-04 17:21:53 and read 21763 times.

Advertising is nice, and the airport staff will appreciate it too. I used to work nights, peering out the window or standing in the JetWay looking at every flight on final and touchdown....everything has 3 headlights, so it was very helpful to have the tails lit, so you'd know it was your flight that just landed.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: TrnsWrld
Posted 2013-04-04 17:30:36 and read 21616 times.

Sweet, too bad they probably decommissioned all the logo light equipped TWA MD80's. those lights are mounted on the wingtips, although I imagine all your newer typical aircraft have them in the top of the horizontal stabilizers and would be a relatively easy mod (I would imagine), where as the MD80's have to have a special part attached to the wingtip. Then again maybe the MD's won't ever see the logo lights with AA.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: bpat777
Posted 2013-04-04 17:30:40 and read 21615 times.

Growing up in the Nyc area I remember seeing the AB6 and DC-10s fly around with their tails lit up. I'm looking forward to seeing them again in the near future just hope they paint a few of the MD-80s too.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-04-04 17:51:04 and read 21428 times.

So what airlines does that leave that don't have logo lights?

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-04-04 18:09:42 and read 21247 times.

From a safety standpoint they should be mandated at night when taxiing. Much easier to see aircraft with logo lights

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: United727
Posted 2013-04-04 18:12:24 and read 21206 times.

Quoting contrails (Reply 1):

It will look nice, but how much will it cost?

AA is spending a lot of money on paint and lighting for a company in bancruptcy proceedings.

Safety...maybe??? Otherwise not a huge concern right now. HELLO...Bankruptcy!?!?

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: nutsaboutplanes
Posted 2013-04-04 18:36:11 and read 21009 times.

On aircraft that are already equipped with them, they are likely just tagged out. The circuit breakers are probably collared and they just need to be RTS with new light bulbs......dont imagine it will break the bank. This said nothing about retrofits.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-04-04 18:52:51 and read 20873 times.

It's nice that AA is finally doing this. It would also be great it they installed the tail mounted cameras tied into the IFE as well.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-04-04 21:00:49 and read 20291 times.

My understanding is that with the advent of LED lighting, lighting the tail is less of an issue. LED lights draw less current, and they last far longer.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: AAR90
Posted 2013-04-04 21:05:26 and read 20269 times.

"Finally" isn't the word I would use since this will only be the FOURTH time AA has "reactivated" logo lights during my career.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: N243NW
Posted 2013-04-04 21:38:36 and read 19980 times.

Quoting United727 (Reply 8):
HELLO...Bankruptcy!?!?

Has almost nothing to do with the decision. AA has been investing a lot of money in modernizing its fleet and in-flight product in the last few months, and IMO it's money well spent.

Most of the 737s, all Airbuses, and all 777s will have the logo lights (re)activated. There are no plans to illuminate any MD80s, 757s or 767s.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: BMI727
Posted 2013-04-04 22:02:40 and read 19574 times.

Quoting bpat777 (Thread starter):
AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.

Why? American doesn't have their logo on their tails, and the design on the tail covers the entire tail and then some so the light will only illuminate a portion of it.

Not that the costs involved are huge or seeing the design at night is hugely important, but still. Depending on how exactly the lights are arranged you might just get a couple bars and not the flag effect.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: fraspotter
Posted 2013-04-05 03:41:38 and read 16517 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Why? American doesn't have their logo on their tails, and the design on the tail covers the entire tail and then some so the light will only illuminate a portion of it.

Ok well "logo lights" is most likely NOT the official name for this. Granted American's logo isn't on their tail, the flag is still a large part of the brand that is the new American Airlines...

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: richiemo
Posted 2013-04-05 04:38:12 and read 15815 times.

I don't think Delta lights its tails. They may be the only ones?

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2013-04-05 04:49:59 and read 15667 times.

Quoting richiemo (Reply 16):
I don't think Delta lights its tails. They may be the only ones?
DL typically only have logo lights on International aircraft. The few domestic a/c that are equipped with them, have them deactivated. There are exceptions, as I have recently seen a newly delivered MD-90 with them still active. They are a major league pain in the a$$ to maintain. This is for PMDL a/c, but I believe the PMNW fleet is similar.

[Edited 2013-04-05 04:54:11]

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: iFlyLOTs
Posted 2013-04-05 04:50:41 and read 15652 times.

They actually tweeted a picture of their 77W with the lights on it



I think it looks good all lit up at night.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: finnishway
Posted 2013-04-05 04:57:51 and read 15536 times.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 18):
They actually tweeted a picture of their 77W with the lights on it

It looks absolutely beautiful!

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-04-05 05:22:03 and read 15184 times.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 17):
DL typically only have logo lights on International aircraft. The few domestic a/c that are equipped with them, have them deactivated. There are exceptions, as I have recently seen a newly delivered MD-90 with them still active. They are a major league pain in the a$$ to maintain. This is for PMDL a/c, but I believe the PMNW fleet is similar.

I thought i saw a memo not to long ago that they were going to using them again on airplanes that have them(Domestic)
IIRC the 737s have them and the 320s do not. I can't remember if the 88s have them or not. 90s i think are hit or miss.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2013-04-05 05:27:10 and read 15120 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
IIRC the 737s have them

The -800s don't, not sure about the -700s.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
I can't remember if the 88s have them or not

None have them.

The ATA 757s have them deactivated, and all former Western a/c had them deactivated (which are now all gone from the fleet)

[Edited 2013-04-05 05:28:06]

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: KGRB
Posted 2013-04-05 06:09:30 and read 14576 times.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 17):
DL typically only have logo lights on International aircraft. The few domestic a/c that are equipped with them, have them deactivated. There are exceptions, as I have recently seen a newly delivered MD-90 with them still active. They are a major league pain in the a$$ to maintain. This is for PMDL a/c, but I believe the PMNW fleet is similar.

Interestingly, SkyWest has also has them, at least on their CR1/2s. I believe they are the only Delta Connection carrier to do so. It makes them easy to tell apart, which is great here in ATW, where our three RONs all come in around the same time.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-04-05 10:04:48 and read 10825 times.

Quoting contrails (Reply 1):
It will look nice, but how much will it cost?

AA is spending a lot of money on paint and lighting for a company in bancruptcy proceedings.

Oh for the love of...

Rebranding the company is a smart move coming out of bankruptcy. It worked for DL. In addition, my outside opinion is that using the logo lights is a point of pride. We're proud of our company, we're proud of our logo, we're proud of our airplanes, and we want everyone to see it. Good morale boost.

Quoting richiemo (Reply 16):
I don't think Delta lights its tails. They may be the only ones?

I think the 757's have logo lights on them too.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: spartanmjf
Posted 2013-04-05 10:30:23 and read 10463 times.

IIRC (given that I have way too many flights of late, I probably do), Airtran lights the tails......

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: Cathay350
Posted 2013-04-05 12:31:40 and read 9129 times.

i dont like it personally, that is one ugly tail

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: KingAir200
Posted 2013-04-05 13:14:36 and read 8676 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
I thought i saw a memo not to long ago that they were going to using them again on airplanes that have them(Domestic)

That's correct.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
IIRC the 737s have them and the 320s do not. I can't remember if the 88s have them or not. 90s i think are hit or miss.

All Airbuses other than some of the oldest 320s left are logo light capable. Quite a few are flying around with the tails lit now. Only some used 90s have the lights. Original DLs, like the 88s, as DL_Mech said above, don't even have the housing for the bulbs. The DC-9 has the housing, but I haven't seen one of those in the dark in a loooong time, so I have no idea if they're coming back. Perhaps not, given the relatively limited time with the company they have left.


Quoting KGRB (Reply 22):
I believe they are the only Delta Connection carrier to do so

RP, S5, CP, and XJ CR9s seem to have have them often. EV is a mixed bag and I don't know about G7. 9E CRJ-200s don't have provisions for logo lights.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: by738
Posted 2013-04-05 13:19:10 and read 8801 times.

was it the 737-200 that had the logo light reflector on the end of the main wing ?

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: TrnsWrld
Posted 2013-04-05 13:27:49 and read 8723 times.

Quoting by738 (Reply 27):

was it the 737-200 that had the logo light reflector on the end of the main wing ?


I'm pretty sure some 737s had the logo light out on the wingtip as I remember some of them had a weird extra extension with what appeared to be a big light in it. So I assume that's what that was. As for other aircraft I know for sure the DC9, MD80, and 727 aircraft that were equipped all had them on the wingtips. I always thought that was really cool and looked awesome at night especially in fog. If you were seated behind the wings and flew at night those lights were actually kind of annoyingly bright inside the cabin, but I didn't care  

[Edited 2013-04-05 13:28:33]

[Edited 2013-04-05 13:31:08]

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-04-05 13:34:19 and read 8520 times.

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 24):
Airtran lights the tails......

They do and it's a pretty great site seeing them cruise over Lake Michigan past down town Milwaukee on approach to MKE at night. Too bad AA's MD80 don't have them.

Although this seems to be a very minor detail for many (kindda like seat maps in American Way ... sigh), it really makes for some nice spotting at night in many locations.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-04-05 13:34:39 and read 8562 times.

Apparently AA originally deactivated the tail lights b/c the light bulbs would constantly go out and it was expensive to replace.

Perhaps technology is better now so that the bulbs are more reliable.

Although i'm not a fan of the new tail, it's good to see AA tails lit up again.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-04-05 14:26:56 and read 7803 times.

I have always thought a lighted tail demonstrates a bit of pride. They are quite beautiful at night and I love to see them lit as the planes approach the airport too.

As for AA's tail ....
Okay, I'll admit I was flabbergasted when I saw the reveal. I didn't know what to think - it didn't quite look finished or something. I have now seen a few of the new tails in and around SAN and the new design looks much better in person. And I have to admit it's growing on me. No other airline has a tail quite like it, which at the end of the day is probably a good thing brand-wise.
Love it or hate it, you certainly will know an AA aircraft when that tail goes by!

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: DualQual
Posted 2013-04-05 14:27:28 and read 7816 times.

Quoting by738 (Reply 27):

Also the 737-300/400/500 had the logo lights as an option on the wingtip. I say option because I don't recall UA's 733/735s having the housing out on the wingtip.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: redtailsforever
Posted 2013-04-05 15:13:30 and read 7306 times.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 22):

I know Compass lights the E-170/175 tails. At night they're easy to spot on departure with the lit tail, and real bright wing strobes.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: redtailsforever
Posted 2013-04-05 15:17:01 and read 7247 times.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 26):
All Airbuses other than some of the oldest 320s left are logo light capable. Quite a few are flying around with the tails lit now. Only some used 90s have the lights. Original DLs, like the 88s, as DL_Mech said above, don't even have the housing for the bulbs. The DC-9 has the housing, but I haven't seen one of those in the dark in a loooong time, so I have no idea if they're coming back. Perhaps not, given the relatively limited time with the company they have left.

I think the 757-300's are also lit, as well as the 767-400's. I don't think I've ever seen a 763 tail lit though.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: md80fanatic
Posted 2013-04-05 16:28:46 and read 6537 times.

Quoting N243NW (Reply 13):
Most of the 737s, all Airbuses, and all 777s will have the logo lights (re)activated. There are no plans to illuminate any MD80s, 757s or 767s.

The MDs are the only ones worth having the logo lights reactivated. Line up 737s, 757s, 767s all with their boring tails lit ... can you positively identify a 757 using only the logo light illuminated tail?

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: Mcoov
Posted 2013-04-05 16:35:24 and read 6496 times.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 30):
Perhaps technology is better now so that the bulbs are more reliable.

LEDs man, those things are brighter, more durable and less energy demanding than the incandescent bulbs AA was probably using before.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: LGA777
Posted 2013-04-05 18:46:06 and read 5981 times.

While I am not 100 pct positive I always thought logo lights were standard equipment on all Airbus aircraft yet a factory option on Boeing's. Yes there are some airlines operating Airbus equipment that have de-activated the logo lights but pretty sure they arrived from the factory with them. For example most airline that operate the A-320 family have logo lights while when it comes to 737 operators its about a 50-50 mix.

My 2 cents

LGA777

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: etops1
Posted 2013-04-05 20:18:45 and read 5793 times.

US uses their logo lights .

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: questions
Posted 2013-04-05 20:35:48 and read 5744 times.

Quoting bpat777 (Thread starter):
I think the tails will look nice illuminated at night.

The only thing that will make that tail look good is repainting it!

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 18):
I think it looks good all lit up at night.

It will look even better at 32,000 feet in the dark when you can't see it!

Quoting finnishway (Reply 19):
It looks absolutely beautiful!

You're kidding, right?

Quoting toobz (Reply 2):
Bleh..that's one tail that should stay unlit.

Agree!

Quoting Cathay350 (Reply 25):
i dont like it personally, that is one ugly tail

Agree!

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 30):
Although i'm not a fan of the new tail,

Neither am I!

Argh, Doug Parker, please put a fork in the SCREAMING REDNECK livery!

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-04-05 20:52:34 and read 5708 times.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 19):
It looks absolutely beautiful!

   Compared to the new Finnair tail, yes it does look absolutely beautiful!   

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: psimpson
Posted 2013-04-05 20:53:16 and read 5680 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 6):
So what airlines does that leave that don't have logo lights?

ELAL dont use logo lights.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: okie
Posted 2013-04-05 21:54:40 and read 5553 times.

TWA was the first airline to use tail logo lights and the first to have in flight movie.

That would indicate that at least some of the acquired MD80's should have the capability to light the tail but doubtful that any are going to repainted.


Okie

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: flyfree727
Posted 2013-04-05 23:31:42 and read 5426 times.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 30):
Apparently AA originally deactivated the tail lights b/c the light bulbs would constantly go out and it was expensive to replace.

Yes, pre-BK when times were "dire" the lights were cut off in a desperate attempt to keep the airline in business. Now that the BK process has been used to GUT the labor contract, money is a free-flowing at AMR
  

AA ORD

NO BASHING.!! it was a (semi) Joke!

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: TrnsWrld
Posted 2013-04-06 10:38:24 and read 4879 times.

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 37):
LEDs man, those things are brighter, more durable and less energy demanding than the incandescent bulbs AA was probably using before

Most aircraft lighting isn't LED yet. I would be VERY surprised if any aircraft flying uses an LED bulb to illuminate the tail. So although your argument about lighting being much more advanced now is true, it doesn't really apply to logo lamps....yet anyway. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: nutsaboutplanes
Posted 2013-04-06 11:33:18 and read 4734 times.

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 44):
Most aircraft lighting isn't LED yet. I would be VERY surprised if any aircraft flying uses an LED bulb to illuminate the tail. So although your argument about lighting being much more advanced now is true, it doesn't really apply to logo lamps....yet anyway. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.




That's a good question. I saw an AS 739ER yesterday night and noticed the tail logo seemed VERY bright....I actually thought that it looked like LED but I have no idea.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: n7371f
Posted 2013-04-06 11:38:01 and read 4721 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
IIRC the 737s have them and the 320s do not. I can't remember if the 88s have them or not. 90s i think are hit or miss.

NWA had them on the 320's, at least some of them I know.

The last airline I can recall with a brilliant job of highlighting just the logo was the original Frontier. They had the lights on the end of the 737-200 wings that shot a light straight at the 'F' logo. Should find a pic of it. Pretty cool.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: KGRB
Posted 2013-04-06 15:13:09 and read 4501 times.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 26):
RP, S5, CP, and XJ CR9s seem to have have them often.

Interesting. We only work EV, OO, and 9E in our station, so I don't see these other carriers enough.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 26):
9E CRJ-200s don't have provisions for logo lights.

If they did they'd be INOP all of the time.  

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-04-06 16:10:42 and read 4364 times.

Why would you shine a light on the most hideous tail in commercial aviation?

American should fly their planes with a paper-bag over the tail.
Much more reasonable.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: sgtusmc96
Posted 2013-04-06 16:23:56 and read 4331 times.

PMNW A319/20 have the logo lights. NW deactivated them around 2006-07. They have been reactivated just worked on one last night. They do burn out all the time and like previously said are a pain in the ass. But it does look great with the tails all lit up. I believe only 3201-10 were the only A320's delivered with out the logo lights. I worked 3227 last night so know it has them.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: JBo
Posted 2013-04-06 16:28:50 and read 4308 times.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 30):
Apparently AA originally deactivated the tail lights b/c the light bulbs would constantly go out and it was expensive to replace.

Perhaps technology is better now so that the bulbs are more reliable.

Although i'm not a fan of the new tail, it's good to see AA tails lit up again.

I wonder if LED retrofits are available for older logo lights, and how much they cost to install. It may not be cheap upfront, but they would probably pay themselves off in the long run.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 45):
That's a good question. I saw an AS 739ER yesterday night and noticed the tail logo seemed VERY bright....I actually thought that it looked like LED but I have no idea.

A good way to tell is by the color of the glow, most white LEDs are bluish in their cast while incandescent bulbs tend to have a much yellower, warmer glow.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: yeelep
Posted 2013-04-06 21:26:21 and read 3923 times.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 45):
That's a good question. I saw an AS 739ER yesterday night and noticed the tail logo seemed VERY bright....I actually thought that it looked like LED but I have no idea.

All AS NG's including the ER's have halogen logo lights.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: CoachClass
Posted 2013-04-06 21:38:41 and read 3943 times.

When exactly do these lights get turned on? Do these lights come on only when the landing lights come on, day or night?

I remember in the past you'd see the tails illuminated at the gate, seeing them take off and land but I don't know if these tails remained illuminated for 8-12 hours crossing the oceans. I remember National's Sun King logo illuminated on their DC-10s and of course PanAm's globe.

Topic: RE: AA To Start Using Logo Lights Again.
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-04-19 03:16:37 and read 2825 times.

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 44):
Most aircraft lighting isn't LED yet. I would be VERY surprised if any aircraft flying uses an LED bulb to illuminate the tail. So although your argument about lighting being much more advanced now is true, it doesn't really apply to logo lamps....yet anyway. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


Delta's A330 fleet seems to have LED logo lights.


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