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Topic: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-17 14:24:22 and read 7702 times.



It seems that a new terminal will be built to the north of the current facility. Some features...

* 3 concourses with 10 gates each initially, with the space to build an additional 12 gate concourse
* on-airport hotel
* new parking garage
* new I-10 access lanes

The article states that construction could begin next year with a 2018 opening, in time for the New Orleans' 300th anniversary. The current terminal building is 54 years old, and no matter how much $$$ is spent on "sprucing it up", apparently the maintenance cost continues to rise, which makes sense considering the age I guess.

Also apparently Southwest Airlines backs this idea and wants to partner with the city on this project, at least according to Bob Montgomery, VP of airport affairs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dn2O16nZdc&noredirect=1

Here's the full announcement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m1K7v1Jit8&feature=youtu.be

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-04-17 14:35:01 and read 7646 times.

I like the potential airport hotel! Looks like it could be good for a spotting trip.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: txjim
Posted 2013-04-17 14:39:34 and read 7617 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
I like the potential airport hotel! Looks like it could be good for a spotting trip.

WN737 - WN737 - WN737 - WN737.................. 
Heck, I can see that from my backyard!

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2013-04-17 14:39:39 and read 7618 times.

I'm sure it'll be nice, but not nearly as distinctive as the current facility.   I have such fond memories of being in the tall "hangar" part of the old terminal when it was bustling and full of advertisements & travel insurance booths, as well as spending quality time on the open-air observation deck. Man, THOSE were the days!

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: kordcj
Posted 2013-04-17 15:24:09 and read 7476 times.

Is this in addition to what they already have? Wasn't the concourse where UA and DL park just upgraded last year? I didn't have time to watch the video so my apologies if my question was answered in the video.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-04-17 15:30:31 and read 7448 times.

Great idea if Southwest is willing to commit. A horrible idea if they are building it to bring an airline in. Lets see how commited southwest is. It is a good location if they want to branch in Mexico, central america more i guess. Southwest definitely wants to partner I get that from the video but lets see how much they are willing to commit. If they gurantee a certain number of flights thats great.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2013-04-17 15:43:26 and read 7417 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
If they gurantee a certain number of flights thats great.

Exactly... Isn't one of the concourses at MSY currently closed off? I mean, MSY already has all the facilities it will probably ever need. But as the OP said, perhaps it's all about mitigating rising maintenance costs over the long term.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-17 15:45:14 and read 7407 times.

Quoting kordcj (Reply 4):
Is this in addition to what they already have? Wasn't the concourse where UA and DL park just upgraded last year? I didn't have time to watch the video so my apologies if my question was answered in the video.

It would replace what's there already. Apparently the current concourses A, B, and C will be demolished. D would be kept for some other purpose...not sure what exactly...as would the consolidated rental car facility which was just built.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
Great idea if Southwest is willing to commit.

Yeah, absolutely. The whole WN commitment, whatever it will end up being exactly, is not something I would have expected, but can only benefit this project.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-17 15:48:23 and read 7397 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 6):
But as the OP said, perhaps it's all about mitigating rising maintenance costs over the long term.

That's the jist of it, from what I understand. The new facility would actually be smaller in square footage, but with roughly the same number of gates. There would also be one centralized checkpoint so that passengers can come and go between terminals as they please without being re-screened. There's no easy way to do that with the current layout.

Edit:

See link below for more info and for the reasons behind it....

http://www.flymsy.com/press-room/May...port-on-North-Side-of-MSY-1?&Sort=

[Edited 2013-04-17 16:04:57]

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: william
Posted 2013-04-17 18:28:22 and read 7117 times.

I wander how they intend to use the consolidated rental lot when the terminal opens. Pretty long drive to shuttle buses. Other than that I think it's a great idea and a whole cheaper than building new.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-04-17 19:01:16 and read 7023 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 6):
I mean, MSY already has all the facilities it will probably ever need. But as the OP said, perhaps it's all about mitigating rising maintenance costs over the long term.

This is similar to a lot of recent projects (BHM, JAX, DTW North, etc.), where the gate count has actually gone down as part of renovations. That seems to be a smart way to go about things, particularly if the project allows room for expansion, as this one does.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 7):
D would be kept for some other purpose...not sure what exactly...as would the consolidated rental car facility which was just built.

Building the rental car facility was really solid planning if this was in the works  Wow!

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-17 19:19:04 and read 6975 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Building the rental car facility was really solid planning if this was in the works Wow!

I know right? Hopefully something like a light rail connection will be added, otherwise it sort of defeats the purpose for the facility. One of the original renderings I saw showed just that...a light rail running from the new terminal down the current access road connecting with the CONRAC.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: flyingcaT
Posted 2013-04-17 20:16:08 and read 6830 times.

Costs per emplaned passenger are key. Too much too fast and carriers will decrease service.

I am heartened that the price tag is under a billion but hopefully the costs of construction are realistic and not just for show.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-04-17 21:46:32 and read 6673 times.

What is the airports current situation. Have they been saving for this project, even, or actually in debt and this is only gonna make it worse?

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: r2rho
Posted 2013-04-18 05:22:29 and read 6127 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 8):
See link below for more info and for the reasons behind it....

http://www.flymsy.com/press-room/May...Sort=

The linked pdf in that article is quite interesting and definitely worth the read. Other than the West alternative, I see all other alternatives considered more as being patches/stopgaps than real solutions. Long-term, the north terminal is the best solution. The north location even looks more "natural" than the current lcoation, and has much better road access. Allowing room for expansion / building in phases is a smart way to go as well. The pdf doesn't include any airfield improvements, but I assume new some taxiways (north side of 10/28) would go along with it?

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2013-04-18 05:30:29 and read 6077 times.

Any idea on the FIS setup at the new terminal or is it safe to assume it will be in whatever concourse WN takes?

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-18 06:58:46 and read 5602 times.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 14):
The pdf doesn't include any airfield improvements, but I assume new some taxiways (north side of 10/28) would go along with it?

There's been a proposal on the table for some years to build a new taxiway in the location you just mentioned...just to the north of 10/28. This will probably be the catalyst for that.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 15):
Any idea on the FIS setup at the new terminal or is it safe to assume it will be in whatever concourse WN takes?

No idea, but I hope some details on that are made public soon. The current FIS (underutilized as it is) is amazingly nice and spacious for an airport our size.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2013-04-18 07:05:03 and read 5555 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 8):
The new facility would actually be smaller in square footage, but with roughly the same number of gates

What happened to the 48-gate plan I saw last year?

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: donindc
Posted 2013-04-18 07:53:39 and read 5315 times.

Looking at the satellie view it's hard to imagine that terminal complex fitting on the north side of the field. I wonder if it would be feasible to buy out the property along 24th St. where all those warehouses are in the northeast portion of the field. That would allow for expansion of parking, hotels and/or other related infrastructure. Otherwise the new termainal is going to be locked in with limited expansion opportunities. Not to mention the immediate area around the site of the new terminal is nothing but run down industrial crap. The approach by car won't be very scenic.

Don't get me wrong, this is exciting news and a new terminal has been a long time coming, but I'm curious how the new ramps/roadways will navigate through the existing neighborhood whithout it looking like you're driving through a 3rd world shanty town. Hopefully the new terminal will spark redevelopment of the surrounding area.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: william
Posted 2013-04-18 08:09:29 and read 5232 times.

Quoting donindc (Reply 18):
Looking at the satellie view it's hard to imagine that terminal complex fitting on the north side of the field. I wonder if it would be feasible to buy out the property along 24th St. where all those warehouses are in the northeast portion of the field. That would allow for expansion of parking, hotels and/or other related infrastructure. Otherwise the new termainal is going to be locked in with limited expansion opportunities. Not to mention the immediate area around the site of the new terminal is nothing but run down industrial crap. The approach by car won't be very scenic.

Don't get me wrong, this is exciting news and a new terminal has been a long time coming, but I'm curious how the new ramps/roadways will navigate through the existing neighborhood whithout it looking like you're driving through a 3rd world shanty town. Hopefully the new terminal will spark redevelopment of the surrounding area.

So true, its a bit run down. In the past, I did some plane spotting from that location and always..............allllllllllllllllllways kept vigilant what was going on around me.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-18 08:16:06 and read 5201 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 17):
What happened to the 48-gate plan I saw last year?

I guess they figured it wasn't needed for the short term. In one of the pictures in the pdf it shows the 12-gate addition being added in 2048. So obviously they aren't predicting needing 40+ gates for some time, but I'm sure it could be built sooner if needed. Right now 27 gates are in use...


DL: 6
WN: 6
UA/AC: 6
AA: 3
US: 3
B6: 1
NK: 1
F9: 1

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-18 08:19:56 and read 5193 times.

Quoting donindc (Reply 18):
Looking at the satellie view it's hard to imagine that terminal complex fitting on the north side of the field. I wonder if it would be feasible to buy out the property along 24th St. where all those warehouses are in the northeast portion of the field. That would allow for expansion of parking, hotels and/or other related infrastructure. Otherwise the new termainal is going to be locked in with limited expansion opportunities. Not to mention the immediate area around the site of the new terminal is nothing but run down industrial crap. The approach by car won't be very scenic.

Don't get me wrong, this is exciting news and a new terminal has been a long time coming, but I'm curious how the new ramps/roadways will navigate through the existing neighborhood whithout it looking like you're driving through a 3rd world shanty town. Hopefully the new terminal will spark redevelopment of the surrounding area.

Bainbridge Rd will need to be rebuilt pretty much. And yes, it won't exactly be the most scenic drive. The I-10 ramps will probably get most of the car traffic, although the airport area hotel shuttles would probably use Bainbridge extensively. I hope a plan is in place to make the area a little more pleasing to the eye.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: william
Posted 2013-04-18 08:38:18 and read 5081 times.

And the present parking garage just built will be used for what? The city should just imminent domain from MSY north to Veterans Blvd. Over to Loyola. Then the airport will have further room to grow and have room for longterm parking, and a new Rental facility near the new terminal. Bussing from the new north location to the present south location for Rental cars and parking will be long.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2013-04-18 10:18:50 and read 4630 times.

Quoting william (Reply 22):
Bussing from the new north location to the present south location for Rental cars and parking will be long.

Understood, but that seems to be the way of things lately around the country... Ever bussed from car rental facilities at BWI or even DFW? Those ain't short rides!

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: sccutler
Posted 2013-04-18 10:58:43 and read 4457 times.

On a recent business trip to NOLA, I was saddened to see, as the plane climbed out on departure, a total of four (4) aircraft on the ground at the airport; three Southwest and one Delta. This was on a Friday afternoon.

New Orleans, one of the continent's great and most storied cities, is no longer a large and important city- at least, not one in the way that could possibly justify spending nearly a billion dollars to construct a replacement for what is, now, a reasonable and functional airport.

Painful truth- an expenditure such as this would be a foolish waste of federal money, money the government simply does not have.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-04-18 11:17:35 and read 4520 times.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 24):
Painful truth- an expenditure such as this would be a foolish waste of federal money, money the government simply does not have.

Without knowing the costs of keeping up the current terminal, how can you possibly make this assertion? Certainly, many of the new terminal projects that we have seen recently (DTW and BHM are two great examples) are expected to be LESS expensive in the long term.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: donindc
Posted 2013-04-18 11:24:29 and read 4509 times.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 24):
On a recent business trip to NOLA, I was saddened to see, as the plane climbed out on departure, a total of four (4) aircraft on the ground at the airport; three Southwest and one Delta. This was on a Friday afternoon.

New Orleans, one of the continent's great and most storied cities, is no longer a large and important city- at least, not one in the way that could possibly justify spending nearly a billion dollars to construct a replacement for what is, now, a reasonable and functional airport.

Painful truth- an expenditure such as this would be a foolish waste of federal money, money the government simply does not have.

I respectfully disagree. True MSY is not a bustling hub, but I think you'll find that most medium sized airports have random down times where there aren't many jets on the ground. By contrast, if you departed MSY at 6:00 am, you'd likely count around 32 RON aircaft on the ramp.

With respect to the existing facility, it is a sloppy, inefficient hodge-podge patchwork of buildings dating as far back as 1959. As the article states, the cost of maintaining this crumbling infrastructure makes the argument for the new terminal, which will not be built using federal funds.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-18 11:33:01 and read 4542 times.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 24):
On a recent business trip to NOLA, I was saddened to see, as the plane climbed out on departure, a total of four (4) aircraft on the ground at the airport; three Southwest and one Delta. This was on a Friday afternoon.

That can be deceiving because there are quite a few gates that are not used or are only used once or maybe twice a day. In 2012 MSY was the 45th busiest airport in the U.S in terms of passenger traffic. That put it ahead of SJC, SAT, DAL, PIT, MKE, RSW, and IND, to name a few.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 24):

New Orleans, one of the continent's great and most storied cities, is no longer a large and important city- at least, not one in the way that could possibly justify spending nearly a billion dollars to construct a replacement for what is, now, a reasonable and functional airport.

It's the most important city on the Gulf Coast between Houston and Tampa, and the local economy has been diversifying in recent years. It's not the New Orleans of eight years ago. In many ways Katrina was a wake up call for the region. Still much to be done, but so much better than the way things were. Population is growing, there's new construction everywhere you look...the future is very bright.

Just a couple of the many recent articles talking about the rebirth of the business climate...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-...d-off-an-economic-miracle-20130408

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adrianal...-a-sustainable-business-culture/3/

The issue is the original terminal is 54 years old and the maintenance costs are skyrocketing. The city wants to put its best foot forward for visitors, so if this can be done, I'm all for it.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-04-18 11:54:35 and read 4417 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
I like the potential airport hotel! Looks like it could be good for a spotting trip.

Airport terminal hotels only work financially at hubs. Why would anybody want to stay there aside from plane-spotters? If you are in MSY you either live there or want to be a tourist far away from the airport. With the cost to build an in-terminal hotel as opposed to an off-site one, I hope that doesn't get built for a long time.

Quoting donindc (Reply 18):
Don't get me wrong, this is exciting news and a new terminal has been a long time coming, but I'm curious how the new ramps/roadways will navigate through the existing neighborhood whithout it looking like you're driving through a 3rd world shanty town. Hopefully the new terminal will spark redevelopment of the surrounding area.

They do desperately need a new terminal. It looks like this one is not a Taj. I give them credit for that. Still $900 million is a huge pill to swallow for the airlines and will almost certainly depress traffic. I agree that it is important for the roadway to show off the area and not look like a slum. Perhaps they could built Disney-esque 9 foot high painted walls along the landscaped roadway.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2013-04-18 11:57:07 and read 4401 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
Perhaps they could built Disney-esque 9 foot high painted walls along the landscaped roadway.

Honestly, I think that's what they actually do near and to/from airports in capitals of less-than-prosperous nations.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-04-18 11:57:30 and read 4413 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
Airport terminal hotels only work financially at hubs. Why would anybody want to stay there aside from plane-spotters? If you are in MSY you either live there or want to be a tourist far away from the airport. With the cost to build an in-terminal hotel as opposed to an off-site one, I hope that doesn't get built for a long time.

The Marriott at TPA and the Hyatt at MCO seem to do all right. Do you have some source on this?

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-18 12:09:08 and read 4352 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
Airport terminal hotels only work financially at hubs. Why would anybody want to stay there aside from plane-spotters?

I don't see why this would be an issue. The hotel would be funded by a private investor. Not sure how it would be any different than any other airport area hotel. The upside is a more convenient location to the terminal, which would be a draw.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-18 12:14:25 and read 4315 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
If you are in MSY you either live there or want to be a tourist far away from the airport.

That shouldn't be a blanket assumption. Just like in most metros, you'll always have people who are coming into town to conduct business in the cities outside the downtown core. If you have business in Metairie or Kenner, for example, staying at an airport hotel would be more convenient than staying in downtown. Also, the airport hotels near MSY have always capitalized on the large events that take place in the city. I see no reason why a terminal hotel at MSY wouldn't be successful. Besides...I doubt it'd be a 500 room Grand Hyatt. I'd guess it'd be a 150-room Marriott, or something of the sort.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-04-18 12:45:19 and read 4139 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 32):
That shouldn't be a blanket assumption. Just like in most metros, you'll always have people who are coming into town to conduct business in the cities outside the downtown core. If you have business in Metairie or Kenner, for example, staying at an airport hotel would be more convenient than staying in downtown. Also, the airport hotels near MSY have always capitalized on the large events that take place in the city. I see no reason why a terminal hotel at MSY wouldn't be successful. Besides...I doubt it'd be a 500 room Grand Hyatt. I'd guess it'd be a 150-room Marriott, or something of the sort.

All true. Also, I've used the Hilton more than once when coming in at night and then driving to Baton Rouge or Lafayette in the morning. The peculiar geography of MSY and Louisiana makes that a somewhat unique situation.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: toxtethogrady
Posted 2013-04-18 13:59:36 and read 3850 times.

This is going to be a nice project for the Parsons Brinckerhoff management team and for the airport management.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: BRJ
Posted 2013-04-18 19:16:29 and read 3526 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 32):

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
If you are in MSY you either live there or want to be a tourist far away from the airport.

That shouldn't be a blanket assumption. Just like in most metros, you'll always have people who are coming into town to conduct business in the cities outside the downtown core. If you have business in Metairie or Kenner, for example, staying at an airport hotel would be more convenient than staying in downtown. Also, the airport hotels near MSY have always capitalized on the large events that take place in the city. I see no reason why a terminal hotel at MSY wouldn't be successful. Besides...I doubt it'd be a 500 room Grand Hyatt. I'd guess it'd be a 150-room Marriott, or something of the sort.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
All true. Also, I've used the Hilton more than once when coming in at night and then driving to Baton Rouge or Lafayette in the morning. The peculiar geography of MSY and Louisiana makes that a somewhat unique situation.

Or Northshore area residents that may choose to spend the night for a 6am flight, rather than having to cross the Causeway at 4:00am with rain and/or fog.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-04-18 20:12:53 and read 3475 times.

Maybe southwest will be connecting more passengers and the in airport hotel would get some business. I agree though MSY certainly has less demand than other airports that are hubs for such a hotel but there will always be people wanting to be there for an early flight or people who miss flights.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-04-19 06:34:52 and read 3230 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
Airport terminal hotels only work financially at hubs. Why would anybody want to stay there aside from plane-spotters? If you are in MSY you either live there or want to be a tourist far away from the airport. With the cost to build an in-terminal hotel as opposed to an off-site one, I hope that doesn't get built for a long time.

From the conceptual plans in the original post, it doesn't look like the hotel would be in the terminal, but rather across the street from it. If you're going to have a terminal on airport property, wouldn't it make sense to have it close to the terminal? AUS has a 262 Airport Hilton on airport property, but it's about a 2-3 minute shuttle ride to the terminal. (I think the only reason it isn't closer to the terminal is because it was an existing building from the Bergstrom Air Force Base days that was converted into a hotel.) It provides additional revenue to the airport, and it's non-airline revenue. The more non-airline revenue an airport can generate, the less they'd have to collect from the airlines in the form of landing fees, terminal rents, jetway usage fees, RON space, etc.

BDL isn't a hub either, but they have a 237-room Sheraton in the airport between Terminal A & Terminal B and have for years.

Sheraton Hartford Hotel at Bradley Airport

I think a similarly sized hotel would work at MSY.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: ATLgaUSA
Posted 2013-04-19 06:58:38 and read 3196 times.

It sure seems like they could consolidate airlines in the existing space, tear down half the current terminal, rebuild it, and then do the same with the other half. That would save millions in costs relating to new roads, parking structures, taxiways, and other infrastructure. Perhaps there is a business case for relocating the terminal, but there are a lot of extra expenses that come with that decision.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-04-19 07:57:10 and read 3124 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 29):
Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
Perhaps they could built Disney-esque 9 foot high painted walls along the landscaped roadway.

Honestly, I think that's what they actually do near and to/from airports in capitals of less-than-prosperous nations.

True

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
The Marriott at TPA and the Hyatt at MCO seem to do all right. Do you have some source on this?

MCO is technically a hub according to DOT. I personally don't call it a hub, but in terms of size it is certainly a hub sized airport. Is the TPA hotel in the terminal?

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 31):
I don't see why this would be an issue. The hotel would be funded by a private investor.

If it is in the terminal, most of those are "concessions" where the airport builds the facility and then they contract a vendor to manage it. In fact, most hotels are not owned by Marriott, etc. The problem is that airports and government in general don't build things very cheaply for numerous reasons. It's virtually impossible to pay back the facility cost because of that.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 37):
From the conceptual plans in the original post, it doesn't look like the hotel would be in the terminal, but rather across the street from it.

That's a bit different. If it is just on airport property, but built by somebody else then it could be fine.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-04-19 08:40:23 and read 3086 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Is the TPA hotel in the terminal?

Yes. It's really convenient (more convenient than the likes of ORD).

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-04-19 10:07:06 and read 3013 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Is the TPA hotel in the terminal?

It's just to the right of the control tower in the below photo.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff158/LoneStarMike/Airports/DSC_0048.jpg

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: HSVXJ
Posted 2013-04-19 16:24:49 and read 2817 times.

HSV's in terminal Four Points Sheraton does quite well, and has been located in the terminal since its opening in the late 60's. (I think it was called the Sky Center Hotel back then.)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bruce Leibowitz



So, if it can work in an airport as far from hub status as Huntsville, I'm sure MSY will do well.

Chris

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: ContnlEliteCMH
Posted 2013-04-19 20:37:58 and read 2657 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 25):
Without knowing the costs of keeping up the current terminal, how can you possibly make this assertion?

Simple arithmetic?

I often wonder if many among us have simply lost perspective on money. This project is nigh on to a BILLION dollars -- for 30 gates. Since this project will doubtless be well over budget, the final tally is likely to be well over $30 million PER GATE. That's a *lot* of money, especially when you already have gates and a terminal facility.

It is reasonable to assume that repair and maintenance of the current facilities are in the millions of dollars per year. It is also reasonable to assume that there would be required some capital expenditure for mechanical systems over the years. But you can do a *lot* of repair and maintenance for a cool billion bucks, and for a long time. Questioning the plan simply based on its lofty price tag makes sense to me.

This reminds me the current master plan at CMH. The precursor work is ongoing. I've read the plan and I reject their rationale that the airport's capacity is strained. Measuring a charter-heavy day when Ohio State is going to a major bowl game, during the holidays, is hardly a justification to raze an entire facility and replace it. But when you don't have to earn the money with which you play, it's all fun and games.

This also reminds me of a project ongoing at Ohio State University hospitals. A $1.5 billion project is underway to erect a brand new cancer hospital. This hospital, when completed, will add under 150 beds. Do that math and the mind simply boggles. But if you wonder aloud if such expenditures are wise (and some of us go much farther and proclaim such efforts obviously wasteful), you "don't have the vision" or some other social cliche used to waive the concern raised by...

... simple arithmetic.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-04-19 21:28:47 and read 2620 times.

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 43):
the final tally is likely to be well over $30 million PER GATE. That's a *lot* of money, especially when you already have gates and a terminal facility

I didn't crunch the numbers myself but that is a good point. Thats alot of money for New Orleans. I do wonder the arirports current financial situation do they have cash in the bank ready to start paying for this, are even, or are in debt already before they start? If they are in debt i think its crazy unless southwest has some crazy commitments.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-04-19 21:40:06 and read 2606 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 44):
Thats alot of money for New Orleans. I do wonder the arirports current financial situation do they have cash in the bank ready to start paying for this, are even, or are in debt already before they start?

According to the press release:

Quote:
Funding for the new terminal project will come from various airport self-generated funds along with federal and state aviation grants. The City of New Orleans will not be funding any part of the new terminal project. Additionally, by law, airport funding cannot be used for non-airport improvements.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-04-19 23:08:31 and read 2564 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 37):
From the conceptual plans in the original post, it doesn't look like the hotel would be in the terminal, but rather across the street from it.

That's a bit different. If it is just on airport property, but built by somebody else then it could be fine.

Then you should be OK with it. This article indicates:

Quote:
The plan includes building a new, $650 million, 30-gate terminal with three concourses and a parking garage, as well as a $17 million privately financed hotel, all on the north side of the airport's east-west runway, according to documents obtained Tuesday by The Times-Picayune.


The article also has further information about where the funding would come from.

Quote:
Additionally, none of the plans call for city tax dollars to be used. Like the $305 million Super Bowl renovation, the airport will borrow the money it needs against its future revenue. New Orleans Airport generates about $107 million a year through concession sales, rents, leases, fees and other operations. It also charges passengers $4.50 each to use its facility, a standard rate that brings in another $20 million a year.

Additional financing could come from the FAA's Airport Improvement Program, as long as the final proposal meets the program's guidelines.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-04-20 10:54:17 and read 2417 times.

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 43):
This project is nigh on to a BILLION dollars -- for 30 gates. Since this project will doubtless be well over budget, the final tally is likely to be well over $30 million PER GATE. That's a *lot* of money, especially when you already have gates and a terminal facility.

Since you've done the arithmetic, why don't you tell us the following?

- Yearly utility costs for the current terminal
- Yearly utility costs for the new terminal
- Amount of time and fuel saved by better location of new terminal (it's likely around 2 miles per trip from Orleans Parish)

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-20 13:04:58 and read 2353 times.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 24):
New Orleans, one of the continent's great and most storied cities, is no longer a large and important city- at least, not one in the way that could possibly justify spending nearly a billion dollars to construct a replacement for what is, now, a reasonable and functional airport.

In the end, the airlines end up paying for these improvements with increased rents, which can only be supported by higher fares. As I think you are suggesting, that begs the question can New Orleans as a destination support higher fares? Or, is it the next Sacramento, another city with ambitions for a new airport but without the airline service to pay for the new airport.

The OP did mention that Southwest supported the building plan. I saw the video clip. The Southwest VP claimed it could be done without increasing Southwest's fares. Unless the new revenues from expanded concessions and parking can cover all the debt service, I just don't see how that is possible.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-04-20 13:49:26 and read 2306 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 48):
Unless the new revenues from expanded concessions and parking can cover all the debt service, I just don't see how that is possible.

One of the links in this thread said that right now, concession sales were historically low at MSY due to the current layout. That's understandable. If your flight departs from Concourse B, you're pretty much stuck with the concessions in that concourse, unless you want to buy food/merchandise in another concourse, exit security, then re-clear security. If you have a central security checkpoint, then it's not that big of a deal to buy something in one concourse even if you're departing out of another.

Also, does MSY currently have an airport on the property? If not, then this proposed privately funded hotel would contribute some additional revenue for MSY in that it would be on land owned by the airport. So the airport would be leasing the land to the hotel operator and would get revenue from that.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-04-20 13:58:45 and read 2293 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 49):
Also, does MSY currently have an airport on the property? If not, then this proposed privately funded hotel would contribute some additional revenue for MSY in that it would be on land owned by the airport. So the airport would be leasing the land to the hotel operator and would get revenue from that.

I don't believe the "airport" hotels--which are across Airline Drive from MSY--are on airport property.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-04-20 14:14:34 and read 2266 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 50):
I don't believe the "airport" hotels--which are across Airline Drive from MSY--are on airport property.

That's what I thought. So under the current plan, none of the "airport hotels" contribute revenue to the airport. But under this North Alternative Plan, it looks like that $17 million privately funded hotel across from the proposed new terminal would be on airport property. So wouldn't MSY get revenue from leasing the land to the hotel operator?

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: type-rated
Posted 2013-04-20 14:20:47 and read 2261 times.

MSY was a crowded and hoppin' place back in the eary 70's. Planes at all gates most of the time. National, Delta, Evergreen, Pan Am, Southern, Eastern, Texas International, TACA, and more.

The new plan for some reason reminds me of the renovations recently completed at HOU. I guess that's a popular design. I think if they have a concourse closed now, they need to drum up more traffic before considering rebuilding. I find nothing wrong with the current iteration of the MSY terminal. Back in the 70's SHV built a shiny new terminal to expand to what they thought SHV would need in the year 2000. Look what happened to that.

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-04-20 14:39:27 and read 2225 times.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 52):
I think if they have a concourse closed now, they need to drum up more traffic before considering rebuilding

The one that's closed (A...only 5 jetways at the time it closed up) housed NW and US. When DL bought NW, only US was left, with its dozen or so daily flights at the time. I'm sure it was a financial drain on the airport keeping that open for just one tenant, and I doubt the concessions did very well. US moved to B with WN.

The new facility would actually have LESS gates initially than what's there now. Right now there are around 36 gates...and 27 are used. There will be room to add another 12-gate terminal if demand dictates. When you take into account all the consolidation that has been going on, I think it's smart to build basically only what you can fill and still have room to grow in the future. In July 1983, for example, there were 18 domestic airlines that flew to MSY....Air New Orleans, American, Continental, Delta, Dolphin, Eastern, Northeastern Intl., Northwest Orient, Ozark, Pan Am, Piedmont, Republic, Royale, Southwest, TWA, United, USAir, and Western (for a short time)...plus the international carriers TACA, LACSA, AVIATECA, SAHSA...you can bet all of those gates were used. Now all that space is not needed and I doubt it will ever be again.

[Edited 2013-04-20 14:48:12]

Topic: RE: MSY: New $826 Million Terminal Project
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-04-20 14:55:46 and read 2203 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 49):
One of the links in this thread said that right now, concession sales were historically low at MSY due to the current layout.

I saw that. I also followed a link to the 2011 Financial Statements. (I guess 2012 statements are still unaudited.) Looked at three numbers: the amount of debt the airport was carrying, the debt coverage amounts, and the cost per enplaned passenger.

Some good news and bad news. First the bad news, debt at the end of 2011 was $360 million. Required coverage ratio on most of that debt was 105%. Actual coverage ratios were 156% for one class of bond and 175% for another class of bond. Since 2009, the actual coverage ratio(s) have been more or less declining. Not good. Got to wonder how the underwriting of the new bond issue is going to work. There is not much cushion there to absorb new debt.

Now for the good news, cost per enplanement (which reflects all facility charges to airlines) has been decreasing, from $10.45 in 2009 to $7.36 in 2011. Interesting enough, despite a $3.00 reduction in costs per passenger there has not been a dramatic increase in the number of enplanements from 2009 to 2011, about 9%. Here's the problem. It would seem there is room for the airport to increase the cost per emplanement, back to the 2009 number. But one has to wonder if that could reverse the growth at the airport.


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