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Topic: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: jumpjets
Posted 2013-04-17 12:32:09 and read 10645 times.

Airlineroute.net is reporting that bookings are now open for Garuda services from Jakarta to LGW and SYD in NW13.

Both routes will be operated with B777W aircraft and the timings of the flights seem to be arranged so that inbound customers from LGW will have a short transfer time at CGK for the flight to SYD and vice versa.

Full details at: http://airlineroute.net/2013/04/17/ga-lgwsyd-w13/

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-04-17 13:33:49 and read 10432 times.

Good thing to do. I assume AF/KL and perhaps other SkyTeam carriers will place their codes on these flights.

Are the GA 77Ws 9-abreast or 10-abreast in coach?

I hope CGK-LGW can become daily soon.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: TK773
Posted 2013-04-17 14:41:25 and read 10139 times.

I need a ticket from LGW-CGK for December, I'm very pleased to hear of this announcement! However, Garuda's website does not seem to allow me to make a reservation despite airlineroute.net stating that services will start from 2 Nov onwards, with online reservation having already started from yesterday..

How reasonable do you think its prices will be against EK/QR/EY/TK?

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: by738
Posted 2013-04-17 15:02:05 and read 10044 times.

With only 234 seats when delivered (way less than SQ and EK) Im sure its going to be very comfortable, cant see it being 10 abreast with that config

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: julio777
Posted 2013-04-17 17:57:59 and read 9737 times.

Tried to book jkt - lgw, the ticket has not been offered in Ga website, neverthelse i am very happy to hear this, i'd beter watch and check their website clossly, since based on my experience when they open new route, they usually have very attractive introduction rate. Can not wait to book on their business class with introduction promo rate.

Cheers

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-04-17 18:17:37 and read 9676 times.

Quoting by738 (Reply 3):
With only 234 seats when delivered (way less than SQ and EK) Im sure its going to be very comfortable

I don't know where these numbers are coming from but the correct configuration is 8F 38J 268Y for a total of 314 seats.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: DeltaB717
Posted 2013-04-17 18:38:18 and read 9628 times.

Does anyone know what the registrations of their 77W will be? Cheers

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-04-17 18:43:56 and read 9614 times.

With airlines seemingly either moving away from or preparing to do so from F class, interesting they will keep it in this aircraft.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-04-17 19:27:50 and read 9528 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 7):
With airlines seemingly either moving away from or preparing to do so from F class, interesting they will keep it in this aircraft.

It is not so much keeping the First Class as reintroducing it. Garuda doesn't currently offer an F product and hasn't done so for years.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-04-17 20:06:45 and read 9452 times.

Wouldn't a nonstop to AMS be better than LON?

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
I assume AF/KL and perhaps other SkyTeam carriers will place their codes on these flights.

They'll probably want to keep the pax/revenue on their own metal as far as possible, but without a QF codeshare I wonder what AF/KL's Australia strategy is now...EY? KE? CZ?.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
It is not so much keeping the First Class as reintroducing it. Garuda doesn't currently offer an F product and hasn't done so for years.

I'm pretty sure whatever F they had back in the day pales in comparison to their new 332 J, never mind the pictures floating around of the 77W F.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-04-17 20:19:17 and read 9416 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
It is not so much keeping the First Class as reintroducing it. Garuda doesn't currently offer an F product and hasn't done so for years.

I wasn't sure if they had it already but yes thats even more interesting then.

Going against the tide of opinion of most airlines at present.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-04-17 21:00:30 and read 9337 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't a nonstop to AMS be better than LON?

I assume a nonstop to AMS will happen too.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
They'll probably want to keep the pax/revenue on their own metal as far as possible, but without a QF codeshare I wonder what AF/KL's Australia strategy is now...EY? KE? CZ?.

Good points. Can you please remind me if KL serves AMS-CGK nonstop on its own metal?

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-17 21:04:07 and read 9326 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
without a QF codeshare I wonder what AF/KL's Australia strategy is now...EY? KE? CZ?.

From everything I've seen it is CZ for AF, and KL is split somewhat equally between CZ, EY, and MH (the latter due to historical reasons). I don't know if that is in any way an "official" list of partners, but whenever I've looked at AFKL for Europe in the last couple of months that's how the chips have fallen.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-04-17 21:04:40 and read 9327 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):
Can you please remind me if KL serves AMS-CGK nonstop on its own metal?

Negative. One way or another, a Skyteam hub in CGK could be a great alternative to SIN.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-17 21:09:06 and read 9317 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
a Skyteam hub in CGK could be a great alternative to SIN.

I'm afraid that I'm inclined to disagree. CGK would be the Asian equivalent of MIA, great for connections south, but fairly useless for intra-Asia connections. The difference between MIA and CGK, though, is that south of MIA is one of the fastest growing and most dynamic regions on the planet, whereas south of CGK there's only - what - 25 million people combined in AusNZ.

Of course this isn't to say that Indonesia itself isn't a very important destination, with one of the largest populations in the world and a fast growing economy. Having GA on-board will definitely help SkyTeam to benefit from that rapid growth. But I don't see an awful lot of value in it as a hub, unfortunately.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2013-04-17 21:11:34 and read 9306 times.

Congratulations to GA launching 77W on LGW and SYD routes. I would be looking forward to get on board these 77Ws soon, especially on their GA713 CGK to SYD flights once booking has been opened!  
Quoting jumpjets (Thread starter):
the timings of the flights seem to be arranged so that inbound customers from LGW will have a short transfer time at CGK for the flight to SYD and vice versa.

Nice strategy, wonder will the flights from Melbourne and Perth to CGK are being re-timed for the LGW connections too? Would be great feed to their flight if they re-timed the flights for shorter connections at CGK.

Quoting TK773 (Reply 2):
How reasonable do you think its prices will be against EK/QR/EY/TK?

With flights heading to LGW and a stopover at CGK, I reckon their prices should be lower than these carriers, although my assumption might be wrong.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
8F 38J 268Y for a total of 314 seats.

Great configuration. Was surprised at 38 J class seats though, I was expecting more J class seats aboard.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
It is not so much keeping the First Class as reintroducing it. Garuda doesn't currently offer an F product and hasn't done so for years.

Anyone know the reasons GA choose to introduce First Class on their 77W? Are the premium (First class) traffic between CGK to Europe or Australia are great?

I don't know for sure, but I feel that they would be better off introducing Premium Economy on their 77W, unless selling those F class seats would not be an issue to GA.

Although with my doubts on First Class seats, I wish GA all the best on their bid to serve the 'kangaroo route', and looking forward for GA flying their aircraft to more Australian and European cities in the future.

Regards,
Dirktraveller.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-04-17 21:27:05 and read 9250 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 14):
I'm afraid that I'm inclined to disagree. CGK would be the Asian equivalent of MIA, great for connections south, but fairly useless for intra-Asia connections.

Short term, it's tough; LGW, a low density 77W, and F are all a long shot for GA and Indonesia in general. But long term, it's a dynamic country and economy, with a huge population, and a quickly improving carrier, hubbed at an airport that really doesn't offer much more in the way of connection opportunity than SIN. Long term, I'm optimistic for Indonesia in general, and GA/CGK in particular, not so much for the connecting opportunity beyond, but for the major local population GA can bring to Skyteam. It's a bit like tagging a Brazilian carrier--it's not so much for the connections to Argentina, but for the Brazilian footprint.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 15):

Anyone know the reasons GA choose to introduce First Class on their 77W?

Probably for the same reason CZ put F in the 380s it got . I'd also bet GA won't be able to fill them, just like CZ too.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-17 21:46:27 and read 9189 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Long term, I'm optimistic for Indonesia in general
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
It's a bit like tagging a Brazilian carrier--it's not so much for the connections to Argentina, but for the Brazilian footprint

In which case I agree 100% 

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-04-17 21:50:15 and read 9177 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Negative. One way or another, a Skyteam hub in CGK could be a great alternative to SIN.

Thanks and I agree.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 15):
Are the premium (First class) traffic between CGK to Europe or Australia are great?

Most likely not, but there is still some demand for F-class service between Australia and Europe. For as long as these types of flights require a stop due to range issues, it may be worth fighting for those F-class passengers with the likes of EK, SQ, EY and CX.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 15):
feel that they would be better off introducing Premium Economy on their 77W, unless selling those F class seats would not be an issue to GA.

Some form of premium economy (be it economy "plus" with extra legroom like UA, DL, etc. or a proper premium economy like QF or NZ' offerings) would definitely be good!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Long term, I'm optimistic for Indonesia in general, and GA/CGK in particular, not so much for the connecting opportunity beyond, but for the major local population GA can bring to Skyteam. It's a bit like tagging a Brazilian carrier--it's not so much for the connections to Argentina, but for the Brazilian footprint.

Well put. I agree that due to Indonesia's dynamism, having GA on board is very good in the long run for SkyTeam.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2013-04-18 04:28:54 and read 7800 times.

Looks like this will become the longest non-stop flight out of the UK:

LGW - CGK 7276 mi

then:

LHR - EZE 6904 mi

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-04-18 04:57:38 and read 7561 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't a nonstop to AMS be better than LON?

I believe that was originally the plan when GA re-introduced AMS, first with a stopover at DXB (now AUH) on an A332, then non stop as soon as the 77W arrives. Heard the loads were not really that good though, so I guess GA tries something different with the 77W now. Still, with some decent marketing GA could make a non-stop AMS-CGK with the 77W work IMHO.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2013-04-18 06:41:59 and read 6868 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Probably for the same reason CZ put F in the 380s it got . I'd also bet GA won't be able to fill them, just like CZ too.

Well I thought GA has passed that days of where "prestige overrules economics" things.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
Some form of premium economy (be it economy "plus" with extra legroom like UA, DL, etc. or a proper premium economy like QF or NZ' offerings) would definitely be good!

Looking at their efforts on re-introducing themselves, if GA ever introduced a premium economy I would think it is more to QF/NZ offerings of premium economy.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):

Most likely not, but there is still some demand for F-class service between Australia and Europe. For as long as these types of flights require a stop due to range issues, it may be worth fighting for those F-class passengers with the likes of EK, SQ, EY and CX.

Most probably they could win the premium traffic originated in Indonesia, due to the fact of nonstop service being offered. But I have to say they have a lot of work to be done , if they would like to grab the premium demand between Australia to Europe.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
Well put. I agree that due to Indonesia's dynamism, having GA on board is very good in the long run for SkyTeam.

I have to agree with you on this and MaverickM11 on this one, having GA on board is very likely to be beneficial for Skyteam.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: afterburner
Posted 2013-04-18 07:42:32 and read 6444 times.

A presentation video of GA 77W's cabin: http://youtu.be/BC3svroDwJs

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: Markam
Posted 2013-04-18 08:14:59 and read 6233 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Short term, it's tough; LGW, a low density 77W, and F are all a long shot for GA and Indonesia in general. But long term, it's a dynamic country and economy, with a huge population, and a quickly improving carrier, hubbed at an airport that really doesn't offer much more in the way of connection opportunity than SIN. Long term, I'm optimistic for Indonesia in general, and GA/CGK in particular, not so much for the connecting opportunity beyond, but for the major local population GA can bring to Skyteam. It's a bit like tagging a Brazilian carrier--it's not so much for the connections to Argentina, but for the Brazilian footprint.

   Indeed. Indonesia still faces many challenges, but it has being performing really well in economic terms since the end of the Suharto dictatorship, and with 200+ million inhabitants and a fast growing middle class your comparison with Brazil is spot on. This flight may struggle in its beginnings, but if GA keep the good work it should be a very profitable route in the future, and I would not be surprised if it is eventually moved to LHR to take advantage of SkyTeam connections there, particularly if VS do join the alliance... as they say in Indonesian, kalau ada kemauan, ada jalan!  

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: Markam
Posted 2013-04-18 08:20:00 and read 6200 times.

Quoting afterburner (Reply 22):
A presentation video of GA 77W's cabin: http://youtu.be/BC3svroDwJs

It looks very nice and comfy, especially in F and J, although the batik motives may not be for everyone... like wine, batik is an acquired taste! 

[Edited 2013-04-18 08:21:36]

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-04-18 08:26:04 and read 6373 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
They'll probably want to keep the pax/revenue on their own metal as far as possible, but without a QF codeshare I wonder what AF/KL's Australia strategy is now...EY? KE? CZ?.

Currently MH for KL and EY for AF (if you look at the codeshares). In future I would expect that EY would take the bulk of this traffic.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 20):

I believe that was originally the plan when GA re-introduced AMS, first with a stopover at DXB (now AUH) on an A332, then non stop as soon as the 77W arrives. Heard the loads were not really that good though, so I guess GA tries something different with the 77W now. Still, with some decent marketing GA could make a non-stop AMS-CGK with the 77W work IMHO.

AFAIK AMS will be 77W once they have enough 77Ws. As fot the nonstop, it was indeed originally planned (as of S13), but as you said correctly postponed (just as the KL nonstop). Maybe when GA joins Skyteam next year.

[Edited 2013-04-18 08:29:33]

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: 9w748capt
Posted 2013-04-18 09:27:02 and read 6026 times.

Wow looks quite impressive. Good luck to GA! The F cabin reminds me somewhat of 9W's. Indonesia is a beautiful place. They deserve better than JT for sure.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: TC957
Posted 2013-04-18 13:36:46 and read 5151 times.

The schedules are loaded into Galileo for booking now but fares aren't as yet. I'm hoping our company will get great consolidated fares with them to DPS and Australia, I already have client interested.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: LondonCity
Posted 2013-04-18 13:44:11 and read 5143 times.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 15):
Nice strategy, wonder will the flights from Melbourne and Perth to CGK are being re-timed for the LGW connections too? Would be great feed to their flight if they re-timed the flights for shorter connections at CGK.

According to this news item, the Melbourne flights are retimed to connect very well with the London service in both directions. For the Perth services, passengers have to allow an extra one or two hours to make the connection in Jakarta.

The schedules are covered here:


http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...erate-london-to-australia-one-stop

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2013-04-18 19:58:51 and read 4773 times.

Quoting afterburner (Reply 22):

A presentation video of GA 77W's cabin: http://youtu.be/BC3svroDwJs

From the video GA 77W cabin looks nice. Didn't knew for Executive (Business Class) they are using the seat types that are similar to TG A380 (or maybe EY too). Initially was expecting J class seats that are similar to A330s in 2-3-2 arrangements. But definitely the 1-2-1 new seats are much better. Thanks for sharing the video.

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 26):
The F cabin reminds me somewhat of 9W's. Indonesia is a beautiful place. They deserve better than JT for sure.

I was about to say that too, their F cabin reminds me of 9W's. Agree, Indonesia deserves more than JT.

Quoting Markam (Reply 23):
as they say in Indonesian, kalau ada kemauan, ada jalan!  

Benar sekali, Pak.   

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 28):
According to this news item, the Melbourne flights are retimed to connect very well with the London service in both directions. For the Perth services, passengers have to allow an extra one or two hours to make the connection in Jakarta.

Thanks for the information, retiming MEL would be a wise decision to allow better feed. Looking at the time for Perth flights one or two hours is still a reasonable connecting time.

With AMS being non-stop in the future, hopefully GA will eventually re-open more of their European and Australian network. Combined with competitive prices, I hope they could gain more traffic between Australia to Europe, in addition to growing demand between Indonesia to both continents.

Regards,
Dirktraveller

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-04-18 20:34:37 and read 4742 times.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 29):
retiming MEL would be a wise decision to allow better feed

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that both the CGK SYD and CGK MEL routes will now only be accessible for passengers originating from London and those locally boarding. There is no domestic connectivity for these flights whatsoever either inbound or outbound. I honestly don't see how GA will fill a B77W to SYD at 8 am with just connections from London and local boardings. Not even the Amsterdam flight connects to either SYD or MEL in either inbound or outbound. I therefore believe that this new operational model, which is very efficient in terms of aircraft utilization (albeit a bit over optimistic with 90 minute turns in London and Jakarta), will be a commercial disaster in terms of filling the seats on the CGK Australia CGK sectors.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2013-04-18 22:42:11 and read 4510 times.

Hi HB-IWC,

Thanks for the insights into facts that I've overlooked.  
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
I would agree if it weren't for the fact that both the CGK SYD and CGK MEL routes will now only be accessible for passengers originating from London and those locally boarding.

Sorry about the fact that I assume most traffic between CGK to SYD / MEL flights are O&D only. If there's other connections impacted guess re-timings would not be really smart after all.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
There is no domestic connectivity

Although I may be wrong, with the new timetable I guess GA is pushing its domestic passengers at the other half of Java ( JOG, SUB, etc.) and other places in East Indonesia to connect through DPS instead. But yes, this still does not solve the issue of filling the 77W on CGK - SYD / MEL.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
I honestly don't see how GA will fill a B77W to SYD at 8 am with just connections from London and local boardings.

I agree with you on this one, GA somehow will have lots of work to do on filling this 77W with poor timing.

But with offers GA had for Students and Indonesian community in Australia, I might say most CGK-based Y passengers would not mind to fly the 0800 departure from CGK. Although I can't say the same for the premium classes.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
Not even the Amsterdam flight connects to either SYD or MEL in either inbound or outbound

Are they planning on re-timing on AMS flight once it goes nonstop in the future?

Thank you.

Regards,
Dirktraveller.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2013-04-19 02:26:53 and read 4298 times.

Garuda will have problems filling their J and F class cabins at this rate, they have not had any sale fares for months on their Australia-AMS route. They had very competitive fares in the past to AMS around the $3800 AUD area, but for at least the last 4-5 months there has been nothing, a quick look at their fares and they are around $7600 AUD for which you can fly any of the Gulf carriers or even SQ sale fares. Royal Brunei can be had for $3900 in the lower seasons as well. I rang there Melbourne office regarding the lack of any sale fares and they had no idea when any were coming out, and they admitted that the business class prices were very high. Even MH can be flown for $5300 to LHR.

[Edited 2013-04-19 02:28:03]

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-04-19 02:38:29 and read 4240 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 32):
they have not had any sale fares for months on their Australia-AMS route.

Wouldn't that usually just indicate that they do not need to chase that market to fill seats?

Why would you expect to have sale fares if there is no need? Chasing pax usually drives down fares and that is usually the only reason an airline takes such action.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2013-04-19 02:56:59 and read 4188 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 33):
Wouldn't that usually just indicate that they do not need to chase that market to fill seats?

Why would you expect to have sale fares if there is no need? Chasing pax usually drives down fares and that is usually the only reason an airline takes such action.

Every other airline advertises airfares, I have infact tried to do bookings on their own website and got airfares for $12000 AUD return. Surely you would think that there is something not quite right with that, and that was over a wide selection of dates.

With your argument SQ should then not advertise airfares because they are simply chasing pax and driving down airfares? Name me one other airline that serves Australia that doesn't advertise airfares?

Outside of a.net Garuda still have a quite a "reputation" out there vs. the other majors. For them to be charging more than the likes of SQ, MH, TG in J class, you would question who in their right mind would book that, not to mention the additional stop in AUH that none of the others have. Only Royal Brunei have a middle east stop-over on their flight to LHR.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-19 18:00:02 and read 3680 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 34):
With your argument SQ should then not advertise airfares because they are simply chasing pax and driving down airfares?

SQ have a lot more premium seats to fill than GA does, so it does make sense that at slow times they would struggle to fill them all.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 34):
you would question who in their right mind would book that,

Presumably enough people to sell the seats?

I'm not sure what you're argument is. Unless GA is truly incompetent, the reason that they're selling seats at a higher price level is because they can do so in order to maximise revenue.

The airlines that sell J for $3000-4000 aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart, but because that's the price level that they need to offer to get bums on seats.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: Fly2yyz
Posted 2013-04-19 19:32:03 and read 3583 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 35):


Or dump seats in order to put your competitors in the toilette.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2013-04-19 20:27:49 and read 3542 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 35):
I'm not sure what you're argument is. Unless GA is truly incompetent, the reason that they're selling seats at a higher price level is because they can do so in order to maximise revenue.

The airlines that sell J for $3000-4000 aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart, but because that's the price level that they need to offer to get bums on seats.

How many in Joe Public land would know they even fly to AMS? Garuda is known for cheap fares to Bali and thats about it. Go to any of the large online travel agencies on the web and every single airline is listed with their fare prices - dates etc. Try and find Garuda's business class fares.

If they can fill their premium cabins with no advertising then good on them and for the same price as other so called 5 star airlines, then they are doing well. However I find that very hard to believe.

Not to mention what true business class traveller would choose an extra stop en-route to Europe, and complete mis-matching of flight times on the return leg, which is up to 38-40 hours from AMS-MEL. Almost double the normal flight time.

Edit: I just checked their own website, and a MEL-AMS return airfare, I checked over 3 months worth of dates comes up as $16,000 AUD return, now tell me that is normal?

[Edited 2013-04-19 20:38:48]

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: smi0006
Posted 2013-04-19 20:31:44 and read 3538 times.

What is the airport experience like in CGK? Is it easy to transfer? I believe growth at CGK has been huge recently are there any plans to redevelop the airport or build a new one?

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 15):
Anyone know the reasons GA choose to introduce First Class on their 77W? Are the premium (First class) traffic between CGK to Europe or Australia are great?

I believe that Indonesia whilst a developing economy like most in the region, faces significant inequality. Thus whilst most of the economy is rising out of poverty, there is a very large amount of affluent Indonesians who would be willing and able to pay for first.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
I would agree if it weren't for the fact that both the CGK SYD and CGK MEL routes will now only be accessible for passengers originating from London and those locally boarding. There is no domestic connectivity for these flights whatsoever either inbound or outbound. I honestly don't see how GA will fill a B77W to SYD at 8 am with just connections from London and local boardings.

How big is the DPS hub domestically? Both SYD and MEL are severed by GA from both DPS and CGK, could more domestic connections be routed through DPS?

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-20 16:38:03 and read 3088 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 37):
now tell me that is normal?

That's not my point....

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 37):
How many in Joe Public land would know they even fly to AMS?

I can't say who is buying GA J, but they are probably selling a lot more CGK O&D than AMS. Now Jakarta might not be the most premium destination ever, but there is a lot of trade and investment between Australia and Indonesia, a lot of it inbound, and a lot of diplomatic traffic. Between Indonesian investors and business people and the Indonesian government traffic then GA might well have a fair shot of selling out J to Australia. Much better than QF given that there is more inbound business than outbound.

Whoever it is that is buying J, I presume that GA are selling it. If they are not then they have serious yield management problems, which would point to a much bigger problem for the airline than filling a 77W to SYD!

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2013-04-20 20:04:16 and read 2936 times.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 38):
What is the airport experience like in CGK? Is it easy to transfer? I believe growth at CGK has been huge recently are there any plans to redevelop the airport or build a new one?

It is considered simple to transfer through CGK, especially if you are only connecting between two GA flights. However if your connecting time is more than two hours there is not many thing you can do unlike in SIN or KUL, as the airport are really much basic with few shops and restaurants in the transit area.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 38):
Thus whilst most of the economy is rising out of poverty, there is a very large amount of affluent Indonesians who would be willing and able to pay for first.

I agree that Indonesia is an emerging economy, with large amount of affluent individuals in the country. About willingness and ability to sell the F class seats we will have to see later on. Back then I took LH (in F) and KE, both of them sell F class out of CGK, and the I have to say the cabin is only filled with foreign businessman/investors flying back to their home country.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 38):
How big is the DPS hub domestically? Both SYD and MEL are severed by GA from both DPS and CGK, could more domestic connections be routed through DPS?

I might be able to help you on this, according to GA in-flight magazine, DPS hub is considered large with daily flights to cities in eastern Indonesia such as UPG, BPN, and towns at western Papua region. In addition to the multiple daily flights from SUB, JOG, and the main hub CGK.

And I don't know if you are aware that there are more flights to Australia from DPS rather than CGK, with 2x daily PER, daily SYD and BNE, and 5x weekly MEL.About re-routing domestic connections to DPS I guess they have to wait for the new airport at DPS to open, as currently transfer experience I had is considered a nightmare the last time I did it.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
Between Indonesian investors and business people and the Indonesian government traffic then GA might well have a fair shot of selling out J to Australia.

Not trying to intervene the conversation, but I have recently flown on GA CGK-MEL flight, and the loads were quite decent at 25 out of 36 J class seats on the A332, which I'm not sure if it is good enough to "drive out" AMS-connecting passengers etc. And I have to say that not only business people and Indonesian government, there are a number of affluent Indonesians willing to pay full fare J class when sending their kids off studying overseas (in Australia at this case).

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2013-04-20 22:19:40 and read 2811 times.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 40):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
Between Indonesian investors and business people and the Indonesian government traffic then GA might well have a fair shot of selling out J to Australia.

Not trying to intervene the conversation, but I have recently flown on GA CGK-MEL flight, and the loads were quite decent at 25 out of 36 J class seats on the A332, which I'm not sure if it is good enough to "drive out" AMS-connecting passengers etc. And I have to say that not only business people and Indonesian government, there are a number of affluent Indonesians willing to pay full fare J class when sending their kids off studying overseas (in Australia at this case).

I agree that flights between Australia and Indonesia will have good loads, however these flights/airfares are advertised with the major travel agencies, and are generally competitive in their price. However this proves the point, they are advertising their asian flights, but nothing for AMS.

Topic: RE: Garuda To LGW And SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-21 17:37:58 and read 2336 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 41):
this proves the point, they are advertising their asian flights

OK that's interesting, maybe that will change with the new LGW flights? It would appear that GA are now making a go of the Kangaroo Route, whereas previously - it appears to me at least - that both Aus and AMS were O&D oriented. Don't forget that there is still a lot of traffic between the Netherlands and Indonesia. Supposing that loads are good to both destinations, then it probably makes more sense to focus on O&D rather than connections given that yield on the Kangaroo Route is infamous. Now that they've got bigger aircraft (77W) and a destination with less ex-Indonesia demand (UK) I would assume they're going to have to focus more on connections to help fill the planes.

I wish GA luck to London. With the newly emerging Indonesian middle class it makes sense that demand should be good (it seems to be a trend that nouveau riche like to go to London, shop in Harrods etc as a symbol that they've "made it"). If they can pick up that traffic then they could do very well. If, however, the end up carrying British holiday makers to DPS and some Kangaroo stuff then the yields could well end being worse-than-dreadful. We'll see...


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