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Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-09 07:39:37 and read 97079 times.

Eagerly awaited: "The company expects to achieve first flight of its A350 jet in the coming three months, Airbus CEO Fabrice Bregier said in the sidelines of a groundbreaking ceremony for a $600 million (393.52 million pounds) Airbus factory in Mobile.

http://www.globalpost.com

Between May and July?

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: overcast
Posted 2013-04-09 07:57:07 and read 97063 times.

I make it April, May or June. I have a feeling that progress is better than expected, so am hopeful of handover to the Flight Test this month and FF next month.

Just my 1 cent/penny etc

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-04-09 08:08:12 and read 96893 times.

Earlier they said "early summer", so I expect their internal goal will probably be between the last week of June and the first week of July. And I think that has been the case for a while now (and that might also be the reason why they haven't said anything like "Q2 2013" or "Q3 2013". If it slips from the last week of June to the first week of July Airbus would still be be bang on target, but some would say a delay of another quarter...   )

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: 3rdGen
Posted 2013-04-09 08:30:56 and read 96664 times.

When will aircraft manufacturers learn to stop giving out dates or time frames, when was the last time they gave us a date for anything which was actually met?

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: migair54
Posted 2013-04-09 13:01:12 and read 94591 times.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 3):
When will aircraft manufacturers learn to stop giving out dates or time frames, when was the last time they gave us a date for anything which was actually met?

And we can apply that for Airports... look at Berlin, Doha and soon Istambul...  


I was not even aware that the A350 could fly this year...

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: baldwin471
Posted 2013-04-09 13:07:09 and read 94396 times.

Can't wait to see her take to the sky. Haven't been this excited for a first flight since the 777.

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-04-09 15:55:15 and read 91408 times.

And Le Bourget is when exactly? The target must surely be to ensure it's ready for a flight display there so enough time for testing before.

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-04-09 15:57:49 and read 91385 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 6):
And Le Bourget is when exactly? The target must surely be to ensure it's ready for a flight display there so enough time for testing before.

17 - 23 June, so in about 2.5 months

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2013-04-09 17:16:18 and read 90520 times.

Forget about first flight--how about the first taxi tests?

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-04-09 17:39:16 and read 90281 times.

Quoting overcast (Reply 1):

I make it April, May or June. I have a feeling that progress is better than expected, so am hopeful of handover to the Flight Test this month and FF next month.

Yes, that is the the next three months, but I don't think that it will be flying yet.

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: windowflyer
Posted 2013-04-09 18:17:14 and read 89887 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 9):
Yes, that is the the next three months

LOL. I was about to make the same smart@ss comment.

Cant wait to see this baby fly. Another model to get under my belt.

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: bristolflyer
Posted 2013-04-09 19:59:34 and read 89069 times.

Quoting flymd1976 (Reply 10):
That plane's first test flight was a number of years ago. It's called a 787...wheres the innovation?

That's strange, I thought I heard that the 787 was doing test flights this week?

  

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2013-04-10 01:22:15 and read 86333 times.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 11):

Quoting flymd1976 (Reply 10):
That plane's first test flight was a number of years ago. It's called a 787...wheres the innovation?

That's strange, I thought I heard that the 787 was doing test flights this week?

  

hahaha, oke that just made my day! Thanks!

But really, when can we expect to see the A350 fully completed with the Airbus livery?

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: moo
Posted 2013-04-10 01:42:02 and read 86110 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
But really, when can we expect to see the A350 fully completed with the Airbus livery?

At the reveal ceremony, no guarantees of before (Airbus managed to keep the corporate livery refresh a secret right up until the reveal ceremony).

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: sabenapilot
Posted 2013-04-10 03:07:28 and read 85200 times.

If they hurry up in TLS, they can get the XWB in the air before the 787 gets its type certificate back!
Now that would be ironic, wouldn't it?  

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-10 03:21:57 and read 85015 times.

Indeed they can spoil 787's return to flight with skilled PR such as roll out, taxy tests ... even before the A350 first flight

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: SVJ77W
Posted 2013-04-10 03:31:26 and read 84875 times.

Oh WOW, I just cannot wait. When I was told about the Mayan prophecy of 21st December, 2012, My only thought was oh God, We wont get to see the A350 XWB flying. Glad to hear this is going to be real soon.

Is there any pictures of her out there with the engines on?

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-04-10 03:49:39 and read 84633 times.

Quoting sabenapilot (Reply 14):

If they hurry up in TLS, they can get the XWB in the air before the 787 gets its type certificate back!
Now that would be ironic, wouldn't it?  

It hasn't lost it's type certificate. The FAA has just said that the battery problem must be repaired, but they don't say how this must be done.

Topic: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-04-10 03:56:00 and read 84572 times.

Quoting sabenapilot (Reply 14):
If they hurry up in TLS, they can get the XWB in the air before the 787 gets its type certificate back!

Yeah, I'm sure the Airbus engineers will work that little bit harder with such knowledge in mind  

The A350XWB is already more than a year behind schedule, I'm sure everyone involved in the program are working as hard as they can, even if they see a possibility to win one day they'll give it their best. And the A350 program is strong as it is without having to point out to its competitors challenges.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-11 15:54:57 and read 80796 times.

Is she already beautiful enough?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-04-12 07:48:26 and read 80006 times.

I am holding opinion until I see the completed aircraft. I still think the cockpit/nose section looks funny but that may change with paint and lighting. Wishing her well on her maiden flight.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-13 04:35:56 and read 79052 times.

The start-topic "A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight In Next Time" was changed into "A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight".

Now would space for one spaces between A350 and XWB.
What do you think?
Like this: "A350 XWB Countdown To The First Flight"

Or is
A350XWB a good encryption?
DREAMLI a good decryption?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: art
Posted 2013-04-13 04:56:55 and read 78931 times.

Quoting Bogi (Thread starter):
in the coming three months,

I think what he actually meant to say was "within 3 months" or "in about 3 months". I don't believe FF is planned for April. Or May.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-13 05:36:08 and read 78767 times.

Logically:
Quoting art (Reply 22):
I think what he actually meant to say was "within 3 months" or "in about 3 months". I don't believe FF is planned for April. Or May.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: rcair1
Posted 2013-04-13 07:14:06 and read 78415 times.

Exciting to see a new type getting ready to soar. I wonder if the wing flex will be as dramatic as the 787. I would assume so - but I have not heard the discussion - though the renderings certainly seem to show it. Have we seen word of static tests? All I can find is that it is "ready" - and "moved to the static test facility".

Quoting sabenapilot (Reply 14):
before the 787 gets its type certificate back!
Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 15):
Indeed they can spoil 787's return to flight with skilled PR such as roll out, taxy tests ... even before the A350 first flight

Really guys - can't we just enjoy a new a/c without being .....

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-04-13 08:00:29 and read 79763 times.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 24):
I wonder if the wing flex will be as dramatic as the 787. I would assume so - but I have not heard the discussion - though the renderings certainly seem to show it.

Don't forget that the A380 also has a lot of wing flex as well.  .

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: art
Posted 2013-04-13 08:34:14 and read 79387 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 25):

+  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-04-13 08:40:17 and read 81131 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 15):
Indeed they can spoil 787's return to flight with skilled PR such as roll out, taxy tests ... even before the A350 first flight

The last time the marketing department decided on the roll-out date Home Depot had a run on Rivets. Let engineering decide the first fight.

Me thinks the 787 will have its type certificate long before this puppy flies!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Asturias
Posted 2013-04-13 10:06:09 and read 80797 times.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 4):
I was not even aware that the A350 could fly this year...

Me neither! Wow, I'm looking forward  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-14 16:05:24 and read 79409 times.

Rolls Royce Trent XWB Engine Installation on First Airbus A350 XWB (26 March 2013 Press Release). The watching was already exciting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiscr7MeAxw

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-15 05:00:01 and read 78488 times.

That's good to smile: SpeaksWiki Article Airbus A350 XWB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1cS4GKm9v8

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-04-16 14:06:06 and read 76984 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 27):
Me thinks the 787 will have its type certificate long before this puppy flies!

Certainly true, because the 787 already has its type certificate. However there is an Airworthiness Directive that is keeping it grounded till the FAA deems it is airworthy again.

In any case, best of luck to the A350XWB team - can't wait to see it fly!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-04-17 11:51:37 and read 76021 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 31):
In any case, best of luck to the A350XWB team - can't wait to see it fly!

Can't agree more! And I wish the A350 a smooth test program.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-18 04:55:34 and read 75413 times.


cool glasses?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-20 05:53:30 and read 74254 times.

Is on Friday 3rd May, Monday 13rd May or on Thursday 23rd May roll-out ceremony of the A350?

[Edited 2013-04-20 06:49:14]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-04-21 16:44:41 and read 72629 times.

Any word on a potential first flight date? Could there be a flight display at Le Bourget?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-04-21 23:20:06 and read 72063 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 35):
Could there be a flight display at Le Bourget?

If first flight does occur before the show, the flight test program will be in its absolute infancy, I think that the chances of any flying at Le Bourget are close to 0%.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-27 01:46:06 and read 70490 times.

Over one month there is no new informations or photos. This is amazing.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-04-27 09:03:30 and read 69618 times.

So is this the A358 or A359?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-04-27 10:18:55 and read 69342 times.

A359

*filler, but I don't know how much characters are minimum*

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-28 22:26:40 and read 67990 times.

Starts today the new competition-program B777X?

Boeings annual stockholders meeting is April 29 in Chicago.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-29 09:09:53 and read 66939 times.

Published on April 29, 2013.

Hexcel: The A350 XWB makes its first flight later this year.   

Hexcel To Attend SAMPE 2013

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-04-29 11:28:21 and read 66261 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 36):
I think that the chances of any flying at Le Bourget are close to 0%.

So static?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2013-04-29 15:04:29 and read 65757 times.

Whats the chance of the 1st flight being during Le Bourget with a live screening on the Airbus stand ?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-04-29 16:25:39 and read 65489 times.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 43):
Whats the chance of the 1st flight being during Le Bourget with a live screening on the Airbus stand ?

I think the ones that would be buying it can find their way to Toulouse, no?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-30 02:43:15 and read 64969 times.

You think, MSN001 will painted this or next week, then be immediately handed on to the Airbus Flight Test team, for the first time no roll-out event and after the first flight the first official presentation in Le Bourget on the static display?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2013-04-30 03:12:11 and read 64821 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 43):
Whats the chance of the 1st flight being during Le Bourget with a live screening on the Airbus stand ?

I think the ones that would be buying it can find their way to Toulouse, no?

Of course the buyers can find their way to Toulouse, working on that basis though, why stage Le Bourget or Farnborough as serious potential buyers will always be accomodated at the manufacturers premises.

The answer is its good publicity to advertise your success to the widest audience possible. Thats why Airbus stage those headline daily press conferences at the airshows. The publicity value would be enhanced by John Leahy announcing more A350XWB orders with the backdrop showing the live 1st takeoff.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-04-30 03:27:27 and read 64745 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 42):
So static?

I still doubt that Airbus can afford for it to stand around doing nothing when they are desperate to keep any delays down to an absolute minimum...

I'd really love to see it there, but personally - I doubt it.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 03:47:29 and read 64643 times.

The Bourget organisers confirmed that there won't be an A350 static nor flying display. Of course, nothing would prevent Airbus for doing a low pass fly by if the plane is ready but IMO they could use their valuable time for the test program instead.

[Edited 2013-04-30 03:48:27]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-30 06:06:14 and read 64262 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 48):
The Bourget organisers confirmed that there won't be an A350 static nor flying display.

The Airbus A350XWB is not planned to the Paris Air Show, with managing director Gilles Fournier predicting the first flight before the show, which kicks off on June 17.


Boeing 787 to Fly at Paris Air Show as Airbus A350 Debut in Flux

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 06:12:00 and read 64124 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 49):
The Airbus A350XWB is not planned to the Paris Air Show

That's what I said? No flying nor static display.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2013-04-30 06:47:23 and read 63995 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 49):
The Airbus A350XWB is not planned to the Paris Air Show, with managing director Gilles Fournier predicting the first flight before the show, which kicks off on June 17.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 48):
he Bourget organisers confirmed that there won't be an A350 static nor flying display. Of course, nothing would prevent Airbus for doing a low pass fly by if the plane is ready but IMO they could use their valuable time for the test program instead
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 46):
The answer is its good publicity to advertise your success to the widest audience possible.

I completely understand Airbus not committing to any display at Le Bourget..........1st flight is still not confirmed itself...........but I would lay good money on the airshow finding a 10 minutes gap if Airbus suddenly ask if they can do an A350 flyover on 1 of the days.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-04-30 13:04:02 and read 63773 times.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 46):
Of course the buyers can find their way to Toulouse, working on that basis though, why stage Le Bourget or Farnborough as serious potential buyers will always be accomodated at the manufacturers premises.

Why close down the air show just because the A350 program can't afford the time to park a frame there so early in the program? If one wants to see the A350 and one is an important buyer, one will be asked to come to Toulouse, at least for this year.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 46):
The answer is its good publicity to advertise your success to the widest audience possible.

It won't be good publicity to delay the A350, will it?

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 51):
I completely understand Airbus not committing to any display at Le Bourget..........1st flight is still not confirmed itself...........but I would lay good money on the airshow finding a 10 minutes gap if Airbus suddenly ask if they can do an A350 flyover on 1 of the days.

I hope that happens!

If I were an A350 test pilot, perhaps I'd just have to wander off course a bit and buzz the airshow!

Might cost me my job, but it'd be a good way to remember Tex Johnston! 

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 13:46:27 and read 63657 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 52):
Might cost me my job, but it'd be a good way to remember Tex Johnston! 

Reminds me of the Cathay 777 low pass flyby at Everett.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-01 12:33:06 and read 63029 times.

With google translated from German into English: "The new twin-engine long-haul Airbus A350 is expected to complete its first flight in June or July. This was announced by the China Speaker of european aircraft manufacturer Airbus in Beijing."

http://german.china.org.cn/china/2013-05/01/content_28702739.htm

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-05-01 19:04:58 and read 62500 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 52):
Might cost me my job, but it'd be a good way to remember Tex Johnston!

Only if he barrel-rolls it.  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-02 00:08:17 and read 62121 times.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-factor-now-real-unreal-and-untidy
Slightly confused?

Boeing sees the A350 as competing with 787s.
Airbus sees the A350 as competing with 777s.

Which of the two statements is more true?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: oldeuropean
Posted 2013-05-02 00:25:03 and read 61928 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 56):
Boeing sees the A350 as competing with 787s.
Airbus sees the A350 as competing with 777s.

Which of the two statements is more true?

The second.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Asiaflyer
Posted 2013-05-02 00:39:16 and read 61856 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 56):
Which of the two statements is more true?


Both.... Depends on what airline it is.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-02 00:43:28 and read 61864 times.

There is no 1-to-1 competition in this segment, many airlines are ordering both aircraft types.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: scouseflyer
Posted 2013-05-02 00:58:20 and read 61826 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 56):
Boeing sees the A350 as competing with 787s.
Airbus sees the A350 as competing with 777s.

Which of the two statements is more true?

I see it something like this

788
A332
789 A333 A358
7810 A359
772
A35J
773

Basically the two families from A & B overlap and all compete with each other.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-02 01:11:59 and read 61716 times.

The purpose of this thread is allegedly "counting down" to the first flight of the A350, the market analysis of dilettantes seems best done elsewhere.

[Edited 2013-05-02 01:13:39]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-02 03:00:53 and read 61292 times.

Thank you. Is the theme in the context of the contributions, questions and answers, rather too narrow or too wide?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-02 03:37:57 and read 61134 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 56):
Boeing sees the A350 as competing with 787s.
Airbus sees the A350 as competing with 777s.

Which of the two statements is more true?

Neither. Airbus and Boeing both aim to 'differentiate' their product rather than aim for a direct head to head battle. Helps to make sure that they 'win' the sales that directly target a customers needs. With only two manufacturers, it makes sense.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-02 05:52:17 and read 60583 times.

Is the number of grains of truth in different statements each getting the number of different answers to the one question, and would be therefore the first response from @oldeuropean rather wrong?

And is the following statement also rather wrong?
With the help of Google translated from german http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350 to English: "So is developed in fact a more modern competitor to the Boeing 777 series, however also in terms of capacity an bigger alternative to the technologically comparable Boeing 787."

[Edited 2013-05-02 06:01:27]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-02 14:32:48 and read 59798 times.

Agence France-Presse: The 777X faces competition from Boeing's European arch-rival Airbus, whose new A350, a twin-engine long-haul jetliner, is expected to enter service in the second half of 2014.

Boeing spokeswoman Karen Crabtree: The 777X will be "the world's largest and most efficient twin-engine airplane."

http://www.industryweek.com/product-...n-launch-new-777-plane-moves-ahead

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-02 16:13:47 and read 59587 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 56):
Boeing sees the A350 as competing with 787s.

I have seen Boeing argue the opposite. I guess when you are trying to sell the 787 you say the 350 competes with the 777 and when you are selling the 777 you say it competes with the 787  . So it competes with both and neither.

tortugamon

From Aspire Aviation

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-03 00:34:44 and read 58680 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 66):

Thanks for the solution of riddle.

Amazing logic at Boeing.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-03 02:07:58 and read 58523 times.

Rumor of http://doubledecker.boards.net: "MSN1 will roll out in 10 days.."

Monday 13rd May?

See:
Quoting Bogi (Reply 34):
Is on Friday 3rd May, Monday 13rd May or on Thursday 23rd May roll-out ceremony of the A350?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Alpage
Posted 2013-05-03 02:23:15 and read 58367 times.

If so...Airbus is really aiming for Le Bourget despite their press release... Thank God already got my tickets for it. Can't wait !!!!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-03 04:23:35 and read 57939 times.

"Alestis Aerospace and Teams testing laboratory, located in Aeropolis (aerospace technology park of Andalusia) in Spain, have announced that they have achieved the FFC First Flight Clearance for the Tail Cone (section 19.1). Airbus rescued the company after the management of the main shareholder Alcor Group had seriously compromised the development of the A350 program."

Alestis achieves the First Flight clearance for the tail cone of the A350 XWB

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: goosebayguy
Posted 2013-05-03 11:00:57 and read 56972 times.

So Boeing say the 350 competes with the 777 but is heavier than the 787? Weird way to compare that way. Also shows the 350 will beat the 777.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-04 04:19:14 and read 54657 times.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 71):
So Boeing say the 350 competes with the 777 but is heavier than the 787? Weird way to compare that way. Also shows the 350 will beat the 777.

Yes, that's a bit strange.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-05-04 05:07:45 and read 54467 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 45):
You think, MSN001 will painted this or next week, then be immediately handed on to the Airbus Flight Test team, for the first time no roll-out event and after the first flight the first official presentation in Le Bourget on the static display?

Airbus does not need to get the aircraft flying by the to do business. In todays business world you don't have to have an operating model at a show. The airlines that are going to buy the aircraft, will buy the aircraft regardless of the show and if it's flying in it. An airline executive would not be at the show and suddenly have a revelation that "Oh, gee, that aircraft is flying and now we can consider it over the competition. If an airline is interested, they would already have expressed interest in purchasing it and the OEMs would already be wooing them well before and after this show. In this day and age these shows are just that. Shows and not a lot of actual selling goes on these days. Computers and conference calls and Webinars are much more productive methods of doing business without all the expense of physically being at the particular event.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2013-05-04 05:14:43 and read 54426 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 73):
Airbus does not need to get the aircraft flying by the to do business. In todays business world you don't have to have an operating model at a show. The airlines that are going to buy the aircraft, will buy the aircraft regardless of the show and if it's flying in it. An airline executive would not be at the show and suddenly have a revelation that "Oh, gee, that aircraft is flying and now we can consider it over the competition. If an airline is interested, they would already have expressed interest in purchasing it and the OEMs would already be wooing them well before and after this show.

Most people realise this salient fact......numbers sell aircraft not emotions.

However getting the A350 airborne at La Bourget would be a major PR coup for Airbus.....showing "on schedule development" as opposed to the problems that Boeing have encountered. Regardless of the actual facts Airbus would get a positve headlines in the media.

*by "on schedule" I refer to the Airbus revised timetable rather than the 1 we were promised several years ago.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-05-04 09:51:58 and read 53972 times.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 74):
However getting the A350 airborne at La Bourget would be a major PR coup for Airbus.....showing "on schedule development" as opposed to the problems that Boeing have encountered. Regardless of the actual facts Airbus would get a positive headlines in the media.

*by "on schedule" I refer to the Airbus revised timetable rather than the 1 we were promised several years ago.

That is open to interpretation as you mentioned they revised the timetable a few years ago and even redesigned from scratch the A350 if I am not mistaken after the initial success of the 787 in terms of sales. I get the PR value of flying at Le Bourget, but at what cost? What I am saying is that it is not the end of the world if they don't get A350 in the air before the show. What I would see as more positive press would be that they get it flying without the problems that seem to plague the last few aircraft to be introduced. I think that they should take their time and get it right is basically what I am saying instead of rushing it to completion and then wasting time correcting issues that come about after they get it to market only to have problems surface after it is in the air.

The way I see it is that Boeing was forced to get its 787 flying before all the bugs were worked out. The same goes for the A380 with the issue of having engines fail in mid flight or developing cracks in the wings which I personally believe was because of the weight of the aircraft and the strain on the wings which caused the issues they had. How is that playing in the press right now?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: moo
Posted 2013-05-04 10:31:30 and read 53903 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 75):
The way I see it is that Boeing was forced to get its 787 flying before all the bugs were worked out. The same goes for the A380 with the issue of having engines fail in mid flight or developing cracks in the wings which I personally believe was because of the weight of the aircraft and the strain on the wings which caused the issues they had. How is that playing in the press right now?

I can't comment on the 787, but the A380 certainy wasn't rushed to first flight - the engine failure issue was a RR manufacturing issue, not a design fault, as was the wing crack issue.

Tell me, how do you find and fix a manufacturing issue in a regime of test designed to find design issues?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: astuteman
Posted 2013-05-04 10:52:52 and read 54214 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 75):
The same goes for the A380 with the issue of having engines fail in mid flight or developing cracks in the wings which I personally believe was because of the weight of the aircraft and the strain on the wings which caused the issues they had

???
The A380's wings have some of the lowest wing loadings known. The cracks were caused by an inadequate material selection. It related to the weight of the A380 only insofar as the choice was driven by the weight of the material.
The revised brackets add about 80kg to the airframe, for a bit of context
And the engines?
As Moo says, that was a poorly manufactured lubricating pipe.
Neither of these issues was remotely influenced by when the A380 flew

Rgds

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-04 13:42:52 and read 53736 times.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 71):
So Boeing say the 350 competes with the 777 but is heavier than the 787? Weird way to compare that way. Also shows the 350 will beat the 777.

I think Boeing's point is that the 787 is much lighter than the 350 because it has less structure. As airlines seem to be interested in 3-3-3 seating for both airplanes Boeing is attempting to show that they 787 has an inherent advantage. Yes the 350 structure will be lighter than the 777 and Airbus can produce the same diagram as above to show that. The difference is that the 777 will fit 10-wide 17.4" seats while the 350 will not. Also there is an advantage in J as well. BA for example has a 2-4-2 set up on their 777s that they will most likely not be able to do on the A350.

Airline preference and route needs will help airlines make the decision that is right for them but at this point it is premature to say who exactly will 'beat' the other (unless you are not talking about the 777X because the 350 should handily beat the current 777).

tortugamon

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-05-04 14:11:33 and read 53602 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 77):
The A380's wings have some of the lowest wing loadings known. The cracks were caused by an inadequate material selection. It related to the weight of the A380 only insofar as the choice was driven by the weight of the material.
The revised brackets add about 80kg to the airframe, for a bit of context
And the engines?
As Moo says, that was a poorly manufactured lubricating pipe.
Neither of these issues was remotely influenced by when the A380 flew

That was my point. If the cracks were caused by poor choice in material, should that not have been picked up with proper testing of a full maxed out weight? Would the RR powerplant issue not have shown up in testing as well? Why did it take an incident with an airline to find out about this issue?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-04 14:16:06 and read 53574 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 79):
Why did it take an incident with an airline to find out about this issue?

Because that's how everything in life works: you cannot discover all issues with testing. It's nearly impossible to simulate all possible scenarios.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: WingedMigrator
Posted 2013-05-04 15:16:04 and read 53451 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 79):
should that not have been picked up with proper testing of a full maxed out weight?

No. It was a fatigue problem, where the issue isn't how much load is applied but rather how the material behaves after being loaded for a huge number of cycles.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 79):
Would the RR powerplant issue not have shown up in testing as well?

Also material fatigue, due to manufacturing errors, that surfaced after a large number of cycles.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 79):
Why did it take an incident with an airline to find out about this issue?

Because you can't test every product coming off an assembly line to its full rated lifetime... That would only consume the lifetime and render the product worthless. By definition, issues that surface well into the lifetime of an airliner will do so while in airline service.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2013-05-04 15:25:32 and read 53475 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 75):
I get the PR value of flying at Le Bourget, but at what cost? What I am saying is that it is not the end of the world if they don't get A350 in the air before the show. What I would see as more positive press would be that they get it flying without the problems that seem to plague the last few aircraft to be introduced. I think that they should take their time and get it right is basically what I am saying instead of rushing it to completion and then wasting time correcting issues that come about after they get it to market only to have problems surface after it is in the air.

Well Airbus have 'officially' ruled out a display at La Bourget. So they are following your logic of not working towards a PR/Marketing related target (As Apple have done a few times over the last decade)

Airbus are not aiming for La Bourget, but if you were the head of the first flight team, of course you would have a little bit of ambition to be able to present your baby at 'your home airshow'. As a company of course Airbus are just focusing on their first flight program and not being swayed by any external factors.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: douglasyxz
Posted 2013-05-05 00:04:33 and read 53025 times.

Does it make sense to just fly over the place of Paris Air Show without any prior notice to the visitors? If you do so, you would make sure all cameras are spotting the aircraft, which means you'd probably have to leak out a little information ahead. If you can't make the flight, which is highly reasonable in the early stage of flight test, then you earn disappointment instead of positive PR.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-05 03:52:59 and read 52392 times.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 81):
where the issue isn't how much load is applied but rather how the material behaves after being loaded for a huge number of cycles.

Plus, it was very difficult to simulate the behavior of the materials on 30,000 feet in cold temperatures far below zero.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-05 04:39:29 and read 52208 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 79):
That was my point. If the cracks were caused by poor choice in material, should that not have been picked up with proper testing of a full maxed out weight? Would the RR powerplant issue not have shown up in testing as well? Why did it take an incident with an airline to find out about this issue?

My recollection is that there was no problem at all with the load on the wings, they handled that easily, it was the different expansion/contraction rates of different materials where they were mated along a plane. That only showed up over time as continual temperature changes showed up the stresses that were induced by different contraction rates that occurred because of those temperature changes. The planes could keep flying quite safely for a period of times while those cracks were still small and had not yet grown significantly. They are, of course a major pain in the posterior to remedy, as major wing components have to be removed and replaced. Airbus has to carry the cost of the replacement, the airlines have to carry the cost of the down time.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-05-05 11:50:15 and read 51698 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 85):
That only showed up over time as continual temperature changes showed up the stresses that were induced by different contraction rates that occurred because of those temperature changes.

It only showed up at certain places on the wing and part of the reason was that there were preset tension at load 0 on those places, these loads came in during manufacturing which was unintended. This plus a Al variant that was a tick less resistant to these kind of not foreseen tensions caused the fatigue crack to appear after some 1500-2000 cycles.

Nothing one could detect in flight testing unless you really measured what residual tensions you had after the wing was manufactured (and it might not have been there if it was caused due to manufacturing variability).

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-05-05 14:15:56 and read 51370 times.

And as early in the test prgram do you get permission to fly over Paris?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-06 09:31:29 and read 50496 times.

Rumour: Tonight to the paint shop.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: kl911
Posted 2013-05-06 10:12:45 and read 50237 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 88):
Rumour: Tonight to the paint shop.

Great! Let's hope it is true. How long does it take the first time to paint it?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-06 10:14:48 and read 50251 times.

Not longer than a week.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-06 10:23:23 and read 50278 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 89):
Great! Let's hope it is true. How long does it take the first time to paint it?

Yes, let's hope.

... "rumoured to be headed into the paint shop at Toulouse tonight, a further sign that the first flight of the new Airbus family is drawing closer."

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-the-next-gulf-war-between-a-and-b

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-05-06 13:42:45 and read 49743 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 88):
Rumour: Tonight to the paint shop.

That would be great. Let's hope the rumor is true.  .

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: abba
Posted 2013-05-06 14:02:24 and read 49606 times.

I am looking forward to see if Airbus is really going to paint the windows area in the font black as on their renderings and how that will look like in real life.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: AADC10
Posted 2013-05-06 14:52:48 and read 49428 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 78):
The difference is that the 777 will fit 10-wide 17.4" seats while the 350 will not.

There is no way that a 17.4" wide seat will fit in a 10 abreast 777. A 9-Y A350 seat will be wider than a 10-Y 777 seat. Not by much, perhaps 1/2" but a 10-Y 777 will be more cramped than a 9-Y A350.

Some of Boeing's claims are kind of spurious. Of course the A350 is bigger and heavier than the 787, it is a larger plane overall and its largest model will be significantly larger than the 789. Going on to compare the size to the 777 is also odd since they point out that the 777 is wider than the A350 but do not mention that the A350 is substantially lighter.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: davs5032
Posted 2013-05-06 15:20:44 and read 49302 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 94):
There is no way that a 17.4" wide seat will fit in a 10 abreast 777. A 9-Y A350 seat will be wider than a 10-Y 777 seat. Not by much, perhaps 1/2" but a 10-Y 777 will be more cramped than a 9-Y A350.

Some of Boeing's claims are kind of spurious. Of course the A350 is bigger and heavier than the 787, it is a larger plane overall and its largest model will be significantly larger than the 789. Going on to compare the size to the 777 is also odd since they point out that the 777 is wider than the A350 but do not mention that the A350 is substantially lighter.

Back-of-the-envelope calculations (albeit basic) tell a different story, however. If you believe that current 777's are flying around with 10X configurations having 17" wide seats, and you add the rumored 4 inches to that, you get an extra .4" per seat...not sure how you can discount that. You *can* question whether the current seats are actually 17" wide, or question whether Boeing will actually be able to add 4 inches in cabin width, but if things turn out as they've been predicted, the additional space is more than feasible. If the seat widths are the same, then sure, an A350 @ 9-Y would have to have wider aisles if seat widths were the same, but as to seat widths, I don't see your case.

(And let's be clear that we're talking 77X here, not the current 777.)

[Edited 2013-05-06 15:21:45]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-05-06 18:28:18 and read 49053 times.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 95):
Back-of-the-envelope calculations (albeit basic) tell a different story

Back of the envelope calculations for seat width:

Seat guru has BA economy seating 9 across @ 17.5 inches

Seat guru has EK economy seating 10 across @ 17 inches

So clearly the additional seat has cost 1/2 inch in width.

Airbus on its website has A350 XWB economy seating 9 across @ a 'generous' 18 inches

So using the same up gauge from 9 to 10 across seating of -0.5 inches for the A350XWB, 10 across at 17.5 inches width should be possible which would give the same 'comfort' as today's 777 in 9 across.

Adding your theoretical 0.4 inch per seat for the 777X would bring it up to 17.4 inches per seat in 10 wide i.e still not as generous as a A350XWB in 10 wide.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: davs5032
Posted 2013-05-06 20:36:48 and read 48929 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 96):
So using the same up gauge from 9 to 10 across seating of -0.5 inches for the A350XWB, 10 across at 17.5 inches width should be possible which would give the same 'comfort' as today's 777 in 9 across.

Adding your theoretical 0.4 inch per seat for the 777X would bring it up to 17.4 inches per seat in 10 wide i.e still not as generous as a A350XWB in 10 wide.

I should have been more clear, I was in a rush and didn't get the point across well. I agree wholeheartedly that the 77X in 10-Y would have narrower seats than an A350 @ 9-Y. My main disagreement was with the statement:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 94):
There is no way that a 17.4" wide seat will fit in a 10 abreast 777.

But apart from that, I agree with mostly everything you say. I am, however, skeptical of this part of your statement, (obviously Airbus' words, not your own):

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 96):
Airbus on its website has A350 XWB economy seating 9 across @ a 'generous' 18 inches

Given that the A350 is to have a cabin less than 5" wider than the 787, which is limited to (IIRC) 9-abreast with a seat width in the low 17" range, I don't see how the A350 could accommodate 18" seat width, much less a "generous" 18"..whatever that means. But then again I'm just splitting hairs now.. 

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2013-05-06 21:31:03 and read 48824 times.

Speaking of which, any news on when will Airbus roll out the completed and fully-painted A350XWB-900 prototype?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-05-06 21:55:42 and read 48766 times.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 97):

Given that the A350 is to have a cabin less than 5" wider than the 787, which is limited to (IIRC) 9-abreast with a seat width in the low 17" range, I don't see how the A350 could accommodate 18" seat width, much less a "generous" 18"..whatever that means. But then again I'm just splitting hairs now..

If a manufacturer puts up a definite number on its website like Airbus has done in this instance you have to assume that they can make it work, its pointless 2nd guessing them. On what basis are you second guessing the seat size of a company that has spent years and billions of dollars developing a product? 18 inches is 18 inches, its not a nebulous target like MTOW or fuel burn you are just going to have to trust them, at least until any credible sources suggest that they cannot do it and I am not aware of any sources at this time.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 98):
Speaking of which, any news on when will Airbus roll out the completed and fully-painted A350XWB-900 prototype?

Monday 13th May 2013 is where the smart money is.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-06 22:27:21 and read 48738 times.

The rumor probably came from: http://doubledecker.boards.net/thread/31?page=13

"Got some more info, MSN1 will move to the paint hangar on Monday May 6th.
I informed them, but they expect a movement during the night."

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: knoxibus
Posted 2013-05-07 00:15:02 and read 48360 times.

MSN 001 was moved to the paint hangar in the late afternoon of the 6th May.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-07 00:31:30 and read 48556 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 101):
MSN 001 was moved to the paint hangar in the late afternoon of the 6th May.

Hard to believe that spotters could not take make any pictures of she.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-07 00:57:22 and read 48479 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 96):
Back of the envelope calculations for seat width:

Seat guru has BA economy seating 9 across @ 17.5 inches

Seat guru has EK economy seating 10 across @ 17 inches

So clearly the additional seat has cost 1/2 inch in width.

Well Qatar's 777 is 9 across @18.9 inches. Does that mean that EK's 10th seat cost an additional 1.9 inches per seat? (yes it does)

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qat...Qatar_Airways_Boeing_777-300ER.php

Current consensus is that the A350 at 10 across is 16.4 inches per seat.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-05-07 01:14:45 and read 48372 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 103):
Well Qatar's 777 is 9 across @18.9 inches. Does that mean that EK's 10th seat cost an additional 1.9 inches per seat? (yes it does)

Eh? Cathays 777 seats are 18.5 inches wide so I guess that BA has very wide aisles, that's very odd..

Airbus guidance seems to be A330 at 9 across seat width will be A350XWB at 10 across so 16.5 inches, my arse might fit into that space but my shoulders won't...

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: aviaponcho
Posted 2013-05-07 01:18:25 and read 48367 times.

And the 18" wide 9 abreast A350 is not with non standard 1.5" armrest an 18.1 aisle (acaps 2013 ... it's 17"7 only with then according to acaps 2011 various documents (and 18.35" aisle)
It seems that it can be possinle to go 9 abreast with 18" and 2" armrest and 17" aisle

According to boeing 10 abreast 777 is 17" seat cushion, 2" armrest and 17 " aisle
And 9 abreast 787 is 17.2" seat cushion, 2" armrest and 18 in aisle ... so it can be 17.4" wide with reduced 17" aisle ... the magical 17.4" figure we see for the 777X

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-07 01:20:36 and read 48370 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 101):
MSN 001 was moved to the paint hangar in the late afternoon of the 6th May.

Thanks.

Is this information or the rumor not too mysterious, to be true?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: knoxibus
Posted 2013-05-07 01:59:19 and read 48231 times.

This is real info. Several people have seen her being moved. Maybe the spotters missed it because she was moved to a close-by paint shop. And maybe not all spotters put their pics on a.net also (or did not yet re-work their pics, who knows).

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: FlyingAY
Posted 2013-05-07 02:25:07 and read 48074 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 103):
Current consensus is that the A350 at 10 across is 16.4 inches per seat.

I can't believe you're making this so difficult! There is a certain width available for seats and ailes. You subtract the minimum permitted aisle width x2 from that and assuming that the seat width is constant (each seat have their own armrests, which might not be the case) you divide the remaining amount with the number of seats and bang, you've got your seat width. It does not make sense to compare EK, BA or CX figures, since we don't know how they have been measured and rounded or if the aisle width is equal on both cases.

Sorry for being lazy and not digging up the manufacturers websites, but Is the cabin width a published spec?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-07 03:25:17 and read 47844 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 107):
This is real info. Several people have seen her being moved. Maybe the spotters missed it because she was moved to a close-by paint shop. And maybe not all spotters put their pics on a.net also (or did not yet re-work their pics, who knows).

Well, however it looks as though this could be also a rumor or a information of one and the same source.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-07 03:29:40 and read 47911 times.

@Bogi Obvious you don't know knoxibus. If you have a look in the previous A350 production threads you will understand why his information is correct  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-07 04:03:20 and read 47737 times.

IMHO we've had enough of this quibbling about seat widths - the thread is about A350XWB Countdown To Launch!

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 107):
This is real info. Several people have seen her being moved. Maybe the spotters missed it because she was moved to a close-by paint shop. And maybe not all spotters put their pics on a.net also (or did not yet re-work their pics, who knows).

Cheers to Knoxibus for this most welcome news!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-07 04:46:16 and read 47512 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 110):
Some skepticism still seems appropriate.

Nevertheless, the last three or four words of the following superscription are wonderful:
Hexcel Celebrates Partnership with Airbus as A350 XWB Gets Ready for Take-Off

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2013-05-07 06:01:08 and read 47288 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 112):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 110):

Some skepticism still seems appropriate.

There are a few people on this forum whoes "rumours" I have come to accept as almost-a-fact, knoxibus is one of those people  

Loving this countdown, can't wait to see her where she belongs, in the air!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-07 06:37:03 and read 47064 times.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 113):
Yes, and equal the next wonderful rumor is the first flight of the A350 on 11 June.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-05-07 08:48:11 and read 46671 times.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 97):
Given that the A350 is to have a cabin less than 5" wider than the 787, which is limited to 9-abreast with a seat width in the low 17" range, I don't see how the A350 could accommodate 18" seat width...

An A350 should be able to do 3+3+3 with an 18" cushion width if they shrink the aisles to 16".

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-07 10:27:16 and read 46327 times.

That's how they advertise it I believe.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-07 11:43:58 and read 46218 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 66):
I have seen Boeing argue the opposite.

First, thank you for the links. But some of that added weight the A350 has over the 787 adds value! The 20% larger wings will mean a lower wing loading combined with a improved wingspan. Thus more efficient cruise (better wing L/D ratio from span) at a higher (less dense air) altitude. The A350 is simply optimized for slightly longer routes.

The larger and heavier Trents will certainly burn less fuel for the A350.

Also, the larger horizontal stabilizer will help with short field performance.

I simply see a plane more optimized for missions over 4,000 nm (the A350).   

I see the A350 and 787 competing for a *long* time.   

Either way, RR will benefit.  

However, there is weight for a wider cabin that will generate zero additional revenue. I do think the cargo will benefit though...

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 103):
Current consensus is that the A350 at 10 across is 16.4 inches per seat.

That would work for AirAsiaX.   

Lightaber

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-07 12:34:26 and read 45983 times.

The Spotters make hopefully not that: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spotten

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-07 19:35:39 and read 45493 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 104):
Airbus guidance seems to be A330 at 9 across seat width will be A350XWB at 10 across so 16.5 inches, my arse might fit into that space but my shoulders won't...

I have been on Air-Asia-X 9 across A330. I have to say, I was impressed with the number of people they could fit on a plane that size. This was a Melbourne to KL flight, so it was not just a short hop. The seats, considering how tightly we were packed in, were comfortable. The price was affordable, which is why I was a passenger. No complaints from me.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Asiaflyer
Posted 2013-05-07 19:49:31 and read 45464 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 117):
However, there is weight for a wider cabin that will generate zero additional revenue. I do think the cargo will benefit though...

Nor SQ or CX has any 787 on order and I believe the reason being that they only could fit 8 abreast in a 787. Hence they saw the wider A350 cabin adding so much value that 787 was out of the game.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-07 22:34:57 and read 45208 times.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 120):
Nor SQ or CX has any 787 on order and I believe the reason being that they only could fit 8 abreast in a 787.

Doesn't SQ still have 20 789s on order?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Asiaflyer
Posted 2013-05-07 22:38:20 and read 45218 times.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 121):
Doesn't SQ still have 20 789s on order?


The 787 order was transferred to Scoot. SQ instead ordered another 20 A350.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-07 23:32:52 and read 45052 times.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 120):
Nor SQ or CX has any 787 on order and I believe the reason being that they only could fit 8 abreast in a 787. Hence they saw the wider A350 cabin adding so much value that 787 was out of the game.

One would almost suspect that Boeing and Airbus have carefully staked out the 8/9/10/11 across seat markets. There is overlap, but a guaranteed nice slice of the pie for everyone.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-05-08 20:02:34 and read 44072 times.

No 'suspect' about it, in my view, RickNRoll.   Starting a bit late, and needing to compete against two aeroplanes with one (plus eventually replace the A330), Airbus really had no choice but largely to aim the A350 at the 'gap' between the B787 and the B777.

Their only possible problem at this stage is that the vast majority of the orders so far are for the A359; but that's probably only because it will be the first model to enter service (hopefully in 2014).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350_XWB

By contrast, Boeing's orders for the 787 are just about evenly-divided between the 788 and 789 - and they already have so many that they can probably afford to concentrate on production and delivery for a couple of years, rather than worry about A350 competition:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders_and_deliveries

It's a different story with the 777. As far as I can tell (scroll down to 'Orders and Deliveries') the 772 and the basic 773 are just about out of production. Lots of orders still on the books for the 773ER and the freighter, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

Whether the apparent demise of the 772 is due to a saturated market or the popularity of the 787 combined with the looming advent of the A350, one can't tell. All one can really say is 'interesting times ahead.'  

[Edited 2013-05-08 20:04:32]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Confuscius
Posted 2013-05-08 21:22:10 and read 43930 times.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 98):
any news on when will Airbus roll out the completed and fully-painted A350XWB-900 prototype?
Paint job but no 'rollout' party for newest Airbus jet

LONDON (Reuters) - Airbus has started painting the A350, a sign it is approaching a maiden flight, but has bowed to the industry's increasingly pragmatic mood by deciding against a traditional "rollout" for its newest jet.

Asked recently whether Airbus would hold an A350 rollout ceremony, Airbus Chief Executive Fabrice Bregier told Reuters, "Probably not. We'll go straight to our first flight."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...bre9470r6-20130508,0,3201883.story


Darn, I was looking forward to Jerry Lewis and David Hasselhoff entertaining the French and Germans respectively.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-05-08 22:28:06 and read 43699 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 124):
Whether the apparent demise of the 772 is due to a saturated market or the popularity of the 787 combined with the looming advent of the A350, one can't tell.

The current 787 models are not really a one-for-one 772 replacement. The ever-improving A333 and the A359 have played no small part in 'stalling' 772 orders.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: astuteman
Posted 2013-05-08 23:33:00 and read 43674 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 124):
Airbus really had no choice but largely to aim the A350 at the 'gap' between the B787 and the B777.

They did

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 124):
Their only possible problem at this stage is that the vast majority of the orders so far are for the A359; but that's probably only because it will be the first model to enter service (hopefully in 2014).

In the first few years of sales, most 787 orders were 787-8, as that entered service first.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 124):
By contrast, Boeing's orders for the 787 are just about evenly-divided between the 788 and 789 -

They are now. So is the "problem" that the 787-8 doesn't sell so well any more?   

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 124):
Whether the apparent demise of the 772 is due to a saturated market or the popularity of the 787 combined with the looming advent of the A350, one can't tell.

772 sales were already flagging by the time the 787 and A350 hove into view, as far as I can see.

Rgds

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-09 01:11:58 and read 43301 times.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 125):
LONDON (Reuters) - Airbus has started painting the A350, a sign it is approaching a maiden flight, but has bowed to the industry's increasingly pragmatic mood by deciding against a traditional "rollout" for its newest jet.

Asked recently whether Airbus would hold an A350 rollout ceremony, Airbus Chief Executive Fabrice Bregier told Reuters, "Probably not. We'll go straight to our first flight."

Increasingly pragmatic mood?

Bombardier effectively "rolled-out" the CS100 two months ago with an incomplete and unpainted aircraft by calling the event an "update" instead.

See: http://airteamimages.net/bombardier-cs100_50001_bombardier_171191.html

Boeing never marked the "roll-out" of 747-8F with a ceremony of any kind, but did stage a very splashy event for the "unveiling" of the Intercontinenal.

Seems odd that Airbus would completely eschew the opportunity to stage a ceremony to formally "roll-out" the first aiircraft of their major new program, especially when a complete and painted aircraft will be available for such an event. It's hard to believe John Leahy has lost his penchant for staging a laser light show to mark such an "important" program milestone.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: oldeuropean
Posted 2013-05-09 01:18:22 and read 43247 times.

It's a wise decision to focus on the schedule- Who needs roll out parties? Can't wait to see that beauty, ready and freshly painted.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 125):
Darn, I was looking forward to Jerry Lewis and David Hasselhoff entertaining the French and Germans respectively.

Why on earth do you Americans believe in this popular myth that the Germans like the Hoff?   

Neither me or anyone I know here likes this clown, his bad acting, or his stupid songs. BTW he's from your country. Big grin

[Edited 2013-05-09 01:27:37]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-09 01:24:13 and read 43311 times.

Off to the paint shop...

Quoting
Photos of MSN001 with engines attached and being moved into paint shop.


Source:
http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intel...st-look-at-a-complete-airbus-a350/
EK413

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-05-09 01:29:47 and read 43224 times.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 129):

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 125):
Darn, I was looking forward to Jerry Lewis and David Hasselhoff entertaining the French and Germans respectively.

Why on earth do you Americans believe in this popular myth that the Germans like the Hoff?   

Neither me or anyone I know here likes this clown, his bad acting, or his stupid songs. BTW he's from your country.

Ditto Jerry Lewis. Never understood where that myth came from. 95% of people in France have no clue who he even is...

I find the Hoff funny though. At least he doesn't take himself too seriously...

Anyhow, what is that red structure underneath the tail of the aircraft in EK413's pics? The VMU scraping pad?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-09 01:39:48 and read 43178 times.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 128):
Seems odd that Airbus would completely eschew the opportunity to stage a ceremony to formally "roll-out" the first aiircraft of their major new program, especially when a complete and painted aircraft will be available for such an event. It's hard to believe John Leahy has lost his penchant for staging a laser light show to mark such an "important" program milestone.

Sure he would love to have a ceremony but he's not making all the decisions. Secondly, starting the flight testing is far more important than a laser show. And I'm sure Airbus customers are thinking the same way.

Just imagine what Mr. Baker would do with Leahy if he can't get his aircraft in 2014   

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-09 01:42:02 and read 43182 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 131):
Anyhow, what is that red structure underneath the tail of the aircraft in EK413's pics? The VMU scraping pad?

Yes, that's for the tail strike test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I6SSE88fF0

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-09 01:59:38 and read 43039 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 132):
Secondly, starting the flight testing is far more important than a laser show. And I'm sure Airbus customers are thinking the same way.


If the plane can't be spared for a few hours to stage a "proper" roll-out, then there's something seriously wrong. In the case of the 748i, the plane was out on the "fuel dock" at Everett less than two hours after the conclusion of the roll-out ceremony in the final assembly building. Hopefully this decision merely reflects a change in PR strategy rather than being driven by the demands of the flight-test program.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-05-09 03:07:31 and read 42813 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 133):
Yes, that's for the tail strike test.

Sincere thanks, KarelXWB - learned something from it!

Of COURSE - in an actual 'first flight,' no-one knows for certain what the right speed/angle of attack will be for a successful take-off.

So there's the world of difference between an actual first flight (most likely a series of them, for testing purposes) and a 'ceremonial' one, in front of the general public, later on when everyone knows how the aeroplane will behave.

Still think, though, that Airbus should aim to get some 'private' first flights completed ASAP, and then 'demonstrate' the A350 at a 'roll-out' for VIPs - and also take it to as many air shows as they can. Basic marketing, IMO.........

[Edited 2013-05-09 03:09:42]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-05-09 03:09:30 and read 42856 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 135):
Still think, though, that Airbus should aim to get some 'private' first flights completed ASAP, and then 'demonstrate' the A350 at a 'roll-out' for VIPs

  

The big deal 787 roll-out wasn't such a good idea in retrospect.

mariner

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-09 05:41:27 and read 42402 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 136):
The big deal 787 roll-out wasn't such a good idea in retrospect.

Boeing rolled-out a "Potemkin" aircraft for the sake of having a ceremony on a date (7-8-7) which was deemed significant and scheduled months in advance. I'm not sure what's the risk involved in having a traditional roll-out ceremony for an aircraft that has completed the final assembly process and looks to be close to being airworthy?

[Edited 2013-05-09 05:52:00]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Cerecl
Posted 2013-05-09 06:25:11 and read 42275 times.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 137):
I'm not sure what's the risk involved in having a traditional roll-out ceremony for an aircraft that has completed the final assembly process and looks to be close to being airworthy?

So that when A350 encounters problem(s) leading to delays during the period from roll-out to EIS, no one can draw parallel to 787 rollout.
Ultimately, it is airlines that will order A350. If I were an airline executive considering an order I would rather see Airbus hard at work preparing the aircraft for first flight than nice videos/photos of a ceremony.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-09 06:37:58 and read 42216 times.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 138):
So that when A350 encounters problem(s) leading to delays during the period from roll-out to EIS, no one can draw parallel to 787 rollout.

Unless Airbus decides to substitute a "Potemkin" aircraft for the one we've seen in the photographs, what would be the relevant parallels?

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 138):
If I were an airline executive considering an order I would rather see Airbus hard at work preparing the aircraft for first flight than nice videos/photos of a ceremony.

You would represent a completely new breed of airline executive because these guys have been more than willing participants in these dog and pony shows for decades.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Cerecl
Posted 2013-05-09 06:54:42 and read 42147 times.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 139):
nless Airbus decides to substitute a "Potemkin" aircraft for the one we've seen in the photographs, what would be the relevant parallels?

Flashy ceremonies followed by delays. The exact details do not have to be the same.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 139):
You would represent a completely new breed of airline executive because these guys have been more than willing participants in these dog and pony shows for decades.

What I am saying is that whether a ceremony is held or not matters zilch to airline executives. In most cases, planes are purchased because money can made by them not because executives can have a nice photo opportunity. This is not to say ceremonies aren't important, it is just not so important at this stage of A350 development.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-09 07:27:09 and read 42042 times.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 140):

Sorry, I find the notion that eschewing a traditional roll-out ceremony, flashy or otherwise, would somehow insulate/immunize Airbus from criticism for some sort of potential programatic problem/failure down the road to be ludicrous. If I were an airline executive, I would ask myself why Airbus is breaking with tradition? If the the answer is it would be too taxing on the resources of the organisation to stage a roll-out ceremony, then I would have questions about whether that organisation is robust. Any way you cut it, it's a very odd move for an organisation which has never been shy about heavily promoting every last thing it does or accomplishes. Eschewing the opportunity to stage a roll-out ceremony for the A350 is completely at odds with Airbus' corporate culture to date.

[Edited 2013-05-09 07:33:42]

[Edited 2013-05-09 07:34:48]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: moo
Posted 2013-05-09 08:26:51 and read 41869 times.

The point isn't to insulate Airbus from talk a year from now, it's to eliminate the talk today. Can't criticise them for having a flashy, expensive roll out ceremony if they don't have one. Can't make comparisons between the A350XWB roll out ceremony and those of the A380 and 787 if you don't have a roll outt ceremony.

If you were an airline executive, and if you did spend any time mulling why Airbus didn't do a roll out ceremony, then you are mulling the wrong things - are you in charge of Kingfisher per chance?

You can't seriously be trying to argue that Airbus should throw a pointless party just because it's "tradition"?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-09 08:34:20 and read 41896 times.

Who cares about a roll out ceremony! Seriously, such a party is for customers, journalists and political people only. I'm waiting for:

- High-res pictures from the painted aircraft   
- A video showing the blue smoke rising up from the initial engine run   
- Watching the first flight   

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2013-05-09 08:40:46 and read 41809 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 143):

Who cares about a roll out ceremony! Seriously, such a party is for customers, journalists and political people only. I'm waiting for:

- High-res pictures from the painted aircraft   
- A video showing the blue smoke rising up from the initial engine run   
- Watching the first flight

And these events will generate media attention of their own.....so Airbus will still get the PR value without a flashy 'roll-out ceremony'.


Funny thing about the 7-8-7 roll out date.....it was actually on the 8-7-7. Silly US dating system!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-05-09 09:32:12 and read 41645 times.

Quoting moo (Reply 142):

Why does a roll-out necessarily have to be flashy and expensive? Seems to me it can be done at a very modest cost and still garner significant media attention which is the primary objective of such events anyway.

Seems to me any executive in the industry who is the least bit sensient would notice and at least briefly contemplate such a significant deviation from industry tradition and prior company practise. To determine whether they would be necessarily favorably or unfavorably impressed by this particular circumstance would be a fool's errand. However, to argue that it wouldn't merit any contemplation on their part would be equally specious.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: zeke
Posted 2013-05-09 09:42:22 and read 41644 times.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 144):
Funny thing about the 7-8-7 roll out date.....it was actually on the 8-7-7.

It was only when you expressed it like that that I realized it has almost been 6 years, how many have been delivered so far 50 ? I guess is that sort of track record they are trying to avoid.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 145):
Why does a roll-out necessarily have to be flashy and expensive? Seems to me it can be done at a very modest cost and still garner significant media attention which is the primary objective of such events anyway.

Roll out does not mean much to me, it is when they aircraft rotates and leaves the ground for the first time, then it is an aircraft. I see the roll out as exciting as going to a modern art gallery.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-09 10:40:41 and read 41443 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 130):
Off to the paint shop...

At the risk of major flamage, I'll say I like the looks of the GE engines (you know, the ones the A350 Mk 1 was supposed to have) much better (even though I'm not a fan of GE's business practices)...

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 141):
If I were an airline executive, I would ask myself why Airbus is breaking with tradition? If the the answer is it would be too taxing on the resources of the organisation to stage a roll-out ceremony, then I would have questions about whether that organisation is robust.

I think most CEOs are used to the idea of cost containment these days.

I think the bigger impact would be on employee morale - they deserve a good party!

I suppose that will happen on the day of first flight?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-05-09 12:02:33 and read 41161 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 147):
I think most CEOs are used to the idea of cost containment these days.

Not if it affects their own luxury life style paid by their company or other companies if they haven't to pay taxes for it.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-05-09 12:09:51 and read 41185 times.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 137):
I'm not sure what's the risk involved in having a traditional roll-out ceremony for an aircraft that has completed the final assembly process and looks to be close to being airworthy?

I've never quite understood the point of any rollout. The first appearance of the A380 didn't stop the cynics.

I think first flight is the great moment.

mariner

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-05-09 12:12:36 and read 41196 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 149):
I've never quite understood the point of any rollout.

Employee morale? If I had worked on bringing a new aircraft into the world, I'd like to celebrate it with a roll-out (as well as first flight, of course).

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-09 12:19:01 and read 41261 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 150):
Employee morale?

Now I wonder how those poor Boeing employees must have felt on 7-8-7   

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-09 12:20:29 and read 41525 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 126):
The current 787 models are not really a one-for-one 772 replacement.

I believe that the 789 is well positioned as a 772 replacement.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...nalysis-meet-boeings-777-200e.html


tortugamon

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-05-09 12:23:09 and read 41486 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 150):
Employee morale? If I had worked on bringing a new aircraft into the world, I'd like to celebrate it with a roll-out (as well as first flight, of course).

They can have rool-outs, or roll-arounds, up the wazoo, for the staff. But surely, the point of an aircraft is to fly?

All I remember of the A380 roll-out is a lot of hoopla involving a lot of politicians. But I shall always remember the moment the A380 left the ground for the first time.

mariner

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-05-09 12:27:57 and read 41502 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 143):
Who cares about a roll out ceremony! Seriously, such a party is for customers, journalists and political people only. I'm waiting for:

- High-res pictures from the painted aircraft   
- A video showing the blue smoke rising up from the initial engine run   
- Watching the first flight   

Amen to this!

I got really happy on the A380 FF, I even Cheered and did not go to work !!! weirdly enough the 787 after so many delays, did not get so excited, I flew, I just saud WOHA those wings really bend..and thats it...

I think Airbus is pulling an Apple textbook introduction:

Nobody knows anything for sure and there are tons or rumors and conflicting info, then they show it and give a huge PR show.

My guess is that they will fly on the Show, and they only make a small announcement on rollout, first flight...

TRB (fingers crossed)

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-09 12:28:14 and read 41571 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 152):
I believe that the 789 is well positioned as a 772 replacement.

Sure, unless one need those 20 extra seats (77E can seat 314 pax in a 10 abreast Y layout).

Quoting mariner (Reply 153):
All I remember of the A380 roll-out is a lot of hoopla involving a lot of politicians. But I shall always remember the moment the A380 left the ground for the first time.

Speeches, music, dancing, laser show etc. Hell you can't even get a clear view on the aircraft while it's inside the hanger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P-cT8D6nCo

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-09 12:42:20 and read 41508 times.

I don't remember a thing about the A380 rollout but I'll never forget the first flight.
Airplanes are made to fly, not to be towed around by a tug  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-05-09 12:52:55 and read 41440 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 156):
I don't remember a thing about the A380

I found a short video of that 2005 event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEI2va6KBOU

[Edited 2013-05-09 12:53:33]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-10 01:40:01 and read 40902 times.

Nice comparison of the A350 vs B787

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7286/8720608653_5610823039_c.jpg

Source: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=103093594#post103093594

EK413

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-05-10 02:17:11 and read 40514 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 158):

The scale is all wrong though.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-05-10 03:10:55 and read 40360 times.

The similarities between the main landing gears is a bit eerie.

Did both design use the VC-10 'multi-strut' gear'approach?
I know it had to do with reducing stress on the main CRFP wing spar, I'm guessing the engineering constraints were similar.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-05-10 03:20:56 and read 40329 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 160):
Did both design use the VC-10 'multi-strut' gear'approach?

They both used the Boeing standard approach, Messier learned that it was better when doing the MLG for the 787 and told Airbus for the A350 IMO. The VC10 explanation was to avoid saying "like Boeing does it". AFAIK B has have had this design since 767.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Jumpjet
Posted 2013-05-10 04:20:46 and read 39992 times.

Is there anywhere that I can get a look at some silhouettes of various airliners scaled one against another please, as I'm trying to get my head around the relative sizes of these things.....?   

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 159):
The scale is all wrong though.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2013-05-10 04:41:59 and read 39821 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 158):
Nice comparison of the A350 vs B787
Quoting francoflier (Reply 160):

The similarities between the main landing gears is a bit eerie.

Funny, the similarity of the MLG doors is very striking to me! Of course I am not a technical person, so I am probably missing a lot of big differences, but the little flap/door in front of the left MLG door looks like a carbon-copy to me!

EDIT:

Quoting ferpe:

They both used the Boeing standard approach, Messier learned that it was better when doing the MLG for the 787 and told Airbus for the A350 IMO. The VC10 explanation was to avoid saying "like Boeing does it". AFAIK B has have had this design since 767.

Aahh that explains a lot, thanks Ferpe!!



Absolutely loving the winglets, absolutely gorgeous!

[Edited 2013-05-10 04:46:10]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-05-10 05:22:54 and read 39585 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 161):
Quoting francoflier (Reply 160):
Did both design use the VC-10 'multi-strut' gear'approach?

They both used the Boeing standard approach, Messier learned that it was better when doing the MLG for the 787 and told Airbus for the A350 IMO. The VC10 explanation was to avoid saying "like Boeing does it". AFAIK B has have had this design since 767.

Do I understand what you are saying right? The MLG is not done like in the VC10?

The VC10 being a bit older than the B 767.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-05-10 05:42:27 and read 39517 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 164):
Do I understand what you are saying right? The MLG is not done like in the VC10?

The VC10 being a bit older than the B 767.

In total 40 VC10 were built whereof 29 for the captive BOAC in the 1960ies. Furhter it was a very odd ariframe configurtion with double rear engines, way different to the A350. To use that as a reference for what you do 2010 when the schema has been used on every Boeing airliners since the 707 is a little like "yes we drive on the right side of the road as Vietnam does".

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-05-10 06:16:17 and read 39298 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 165):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 164):
Do I understand what you are saying right? The MLG is not done like in the VC10?

The VC10 being a bit older than the B 767.

In total 40 VC10 were built whereof 29 for the captive BOAC in the 1960ies. Furhter it was a very odd ariframe configurtion with double rear engines, way different to the A350. To use that as a reference for what you do 2010 when the schema has been used on every Boeing airliners since the 707 is a little like "yes we drive on the right side of the road as Vietnam does".

As Boeing is doing it since the B 707 it is of course like Boeing, also the VC10 did it like Boeing.

But the rest of your post I do not accept, you always give the honour for a design to the one who did it first, not to who did it most often.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: bongodog1964
Posted 2013-05-10 07:56:14 and read 38858 times.

Quoting jvaljean (Reply 134):
If the plane can't be spared for a few hours to stage a "proper" roll-out, then there's something seriously wrong. In the case of the 748i, the plane was out on the "fuel dock" at Everett less than two hours after the conclusion of the roll-out ceremony in the final assembly building. Hopefully this decision merely reflects a change in PR strategy rather than being driven by the demands of the flight-test program.

I think one of the factors is the closeness of Le Bourget, Airbus traditionally make a big splash for their home airshow, some have the theory that big announcements are saved up for that week to make the splash to Tsunami proportions. A lot of effort at Airbus will presently be devoted to Le Bourget, and organising a 350XWB roll out would divert resources, additionally would many of the likely invitees want to make two visits to France in a short period of time ?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: A520
Posted 2013-05-10 08:53:17 and read 38629 times.

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 167):
additionally would many of the likely invitees want to make two visits to France in a short period of time ?

... unless they do a roll-out in Toulouse but during Le Bourget ... and organise a free transfer (airport to airport should not be difficult) for the selected happy few who can then see the plane with their own eyes ... before singing the cheque?

just a guess

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-10 09:45:13 and read 38645 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 158):
Nice comparison of the A350 vs B787

Jon posted another picture:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7415/8725540643_0e25483003_c.jpg

Larger view here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/8725540643/in/photostream

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Pygmalion
Posted 2013-05-10 10:02:12 and read 38376 times.

Has Airbus completed the static testing needed to clear the A350 for flight? I looked for news but couldn't find anything.

Here are some of the milestone tests needed for first flight.

Static testing to at least limit load.

Taxi test to full rotation speeds and subsequent braking.

Fueling tests and calibration of indicating systems.

Full system gauntlet test of all flight critical systems and backups.

Ground vibration tests (needed for flutter clearance)

There are probably others...

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Vasu
Posted 2013-05-10 10:31:04 and read 38321 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 169):

I prefer the Boeing paintjob to the Airbus one  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-10 10:33:13 and read 38307 times.

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 170):
Has Airbus completed the static testing needed to clear the A350 for flight?

Airbus has tested at least all critical components last summer at IABG.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 171):
I prefer the Boeing paintjob to the Airbus one

  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BuyantUkhaa
Posted 2013-05-10 10:42:14 and read 38234 times.

By the way, did anyone else notice that the main gear wheels are spaced much further apart (on one axle) than usual on the A350? What would be the reason to do so? This requires a (slightly) bigger gear bay, so would consume valuable space within the fuselage.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-10 10:50:08 and read 38277 times.

The most striking difference to me is how much cleaner the 787 wing is. The A350 has enourmous "canoes" compared to the 787 wing.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 173):
By the way, did anyone else notice that the main gear wheels are spaced much further apart (on one axle) than usual on the A350? What would be the reason to do so? This requires a (slightly) bigger gear bay, so would consume valuable space within the fuselage.

I noticed that too. My guess is bigger wheels for a future HGW variant or maybe the A350-1000?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-10 12:35:32 and read 38010 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 155):
Sure, unless one need those 20 extra seats (77E can seat 314 pax in a 10 abreast Y layout).

-Other than AF it is hard to find a 77E with 10 abreast seating. EK has 6. If airlines are trying to replace this highest produced 777 variant (for a couple more weeks anyway) for existing capacity then the 787-9 is a good fit, if they want growth and some additional range than the A350-900 is a perfect choice. Maybe that is why we see the 787s going to KL and the A350s potentially going to AF.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-10 12:39:38 and read 37999 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 175):
Maybe that is why we see the 787s going to KL and the A350s potentially going to AF.

Both airlines will operate both types, there must be another reason.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-05-10 13:45:22 and read 38209 times.

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 170):
Has Airbus completed the static testing needed to clear the A350 for flight? I looked for news but couldn't find anything.

Here are some of the milestone tests needed for first flight.

Static testing to at least limit load.

Taxi test to full rotation speeds and subsequent braking.

Fueling tests and calibration of indicating systems.

Full system gauntlet test of all flight critical systems and backups.

Ground vibration tests (needed for flutter clearance)

There are probably others...

In the 350 prototype production thread we speculate that what remains after 1 month of testing in hangar C63 (after the 350 was complete late March) is the taxi tests. The others should have been finished by now bar any mishaps. We thus expect first flight before Le Bourget, rumor is in the week of 11th June.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-10 14:23:31 and read 38060 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 169):

That's another nice comparison of the 2.

EK413

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: airmagnac
Posted 2013-05-10 16:06:41 and read 37837 times.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 171):
I prefer the Boeing paintjob to the Airbus one

Airbus tried a camouflage motif to keep the A350 hidden until it's completly ready...
Needless to say, they failed miserably ; the ever-watching KarelXWB cannot be fooled so easily !       


Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Ruscoe
Posted 2013-05-10 16:30:37 and read 37674 times.

If you straightened out those nice looking winglets on the 350, would look like the nice looking wingtips on the 787.

Ruscoe

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-11 05:23:44 and read 36933 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 180):
If you straightened out those nice looking winglets on the 350, would look like the nice looking wingtips on the 787.

If you really straightened out those nice looking winglets on the 350 it would look like the mother of a 757  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-05-11 05:28:07 and read 36924 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 181):
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 180):
If you straightened out those nice looking winglets on the 350, would look like the nice looking wingtips on the 787.

If you really straightened out those nice looking winglets on the 350 it would look like the mother of a 757  

If you keep those sharklets it stays an A350.
  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-11 13:56:23 and read 36240 times.

A small teaser:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/1em4uw.jpg

There are more pictures in the A350 production thread.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-11 15:12:54 and read 35940 times.

There are more pictures in facebook.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-05-12 03:16:52 and read 35092 times.

This looks to be the likely outcome. The A350 making its first flight well before the Paris show, but not participating in the show itself; the 787 flying every day:-

"Boeing Co. (BA) will put its 787 Dreamliner on flying display at the Paris Air Show, as the aircraft maker seeks to leave behind a prolonged grounding, while Airbus SAS’s A350 may debut even before the June expo.

"Qatar Airways Ltd. and Boeing are expected to participate now that U.S. regulators have cleared the airplane to fly again, said Gilles Fournier, managing director for the Paris show.

“We expect a flying display of the Boeing aircraft every day” with confirmation still pending, he said at a London briefing. The Airbus A350, the direct rival to the 787, is not planned to showcase at the event, with Fournier predicting the first flight before the show, which kicks off on June 17."


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-as-airbus-a350-debut-in-flux.html

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-12 03:48:47 and read 34941 times.

"Monday, Monday" is the XWB in Color.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-12 04:08:10 and read 34989 times.

Another teaser:

http://oi41.tinypic.com/14s9so.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2013-05-12 06:15:01 and read 34561 times.

In short, F-XWBA will have the standard Airbus "house" livery just like A380 MSN 001.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-05-12 06:31:45 and read 34514 times.

The A350 wing seems to cantilever down towards the tip, while the 787 seems to flex upward. Is there some kind of prestressing of the wing spar going on or is it just shaped that way?

Thanks.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-05-12 09:19:36 and read 33973 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 189):
The A350 wing seems to cantilever down towards the tip, while the 787 seems to flex upward. Is there some kind of prestressing of the wing spar going on or is it just shaped that way?

Thanks.

I guess you refer to the pics where we see them slightly from the back. Keep in mind the 787 seems to have a high velocity with flaps extended whereas the A350 is almost static.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: abba
Posted 2013-05-12 10:41:45 and read 33645 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 187):
Another teaser:


It looks white under the plastic - even around the windows! Will it remain so?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-12 11:44:26 and read 33522 times.

More:
http://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247615_564435370267820_1114501300_n.jpg

http://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/943432_564377476940276_161217263_n.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-12 12:13:00 and read 33329 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 192):
More:

Clearly designed by men!  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-12 12:42:56 and read 33135 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 193):
Clearly designed by men!

Whence this "wisdom"?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2013-05-12 12:50:17 and read 33162 times.

Gives a new meaning to the white euro style  

I know it won't stay that way. The windows and other parts have been covered and will soon be again visible. More color will be added in places with paint or stickers. But boy, does this aircraft look very nice in the all-white...

Very sexy!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: discovery1
Posted 2013-05-12 12:58:32 and read 33165 times.

Eh, close enough:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/f24ozm.jpg

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcJ-wNmazHQ

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: sturmovik
Posted 2013-05-12 13:24:38 and read 32958 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 143):
the blue smoke rising up

I thought we were already done with the Pope business..     

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-12 14:22:48 and read 32822 times.

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 197):
I thought we were already done with the Pope business

    

While we wait, here is a picture of the initial engine run of the first 787:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7247046956_184e621fa1_c.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/7247046956/

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-12 14:23:11 and read 32808 times.

The back part
http://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525452_564593256918698_413075329_n.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Klaus
Posted 2013-05-12 14:39:08 and read 32630 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 199):
The back part

What, no live video feed yet...? 

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-12 14:49:50 and read 32589 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 200):
What, no live video feed yet...?

Comes earlier or later.

[Edited 2013-05-12 15:06:17]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-05-12 19:53:54 and read 32465 times.

Quoting a380900 (Reply 190):
Quoting comorin (Reply 189):
The A350 wing seems to cantilever down towards the tip, while the 787 seems to flex upward. Is there some kind of prestressing of the wing spar going on or is it just shaped that way?

Thanks.

I guess you refer to the pics where we see them slightly from the back. Keep in mind the 787 seems to have a high velocity with flaps extended whereas the A350 is almost static.

Thanks, but not sure what you mean? In the pictures, both aircraft are on the ground so the wings are unloaded.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-05-13 01:04:22 and read 31822 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 202):
Thanks, but not sure what you mean? In the pictures, both aircraft are on the ground so the wings are unloaded.

It's not either/or in my view. If the plane is fast enough on the ground, the wings do take some load which changes their shape. And in this case, it looks like the 787 is braking after landing. So the wings "deflexing" may not have completely occured yet. To me, on the picture of the 787 with the struts out, it is clearly the case.

Also the fuel load can change the shape of the wings on the ground big time. So if the 787 is close to empty (and it is landing) and the A350 is fullly loaded with fuel, it will change the look of the wings too. So this could contribute to this effect.

I have to admit that I don't see why the A350 would be fully loaded with fuel just before going into the paint shop. But it could be the case for some reason...

[Edited 2013-05-13 01:14:33]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-05-13 03:48:19 and read 31349 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 202):
In the pictures, both aircraft are on the ground so the wings are unloaded.
Quoting a380900 (Reply 203):
So if the 787 is close to empty (and it is landing) and the A350 is fullly loaded with fuel, it will change the look of the wings too.

Guys, PLEASE............  

The most likely reason for the wing dihedral angles appearing to be (subtly) different is that one camera was closer to the aeroplane concerned than the other. The closer the camera, the higher the angle...........

Nowadays it is only too easy to edit photographs. The two photographs could very well have been taken from very DIFFERENT distances - while still looking very similar...... Just a matter of 'enlargement' - or the opposite.........  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bthebest
Posted 2013-05-13 05:32:57 and read 30731 times.

http://www.aeronewstv.com/en/

suggests First Flight will be week of 10th June - nothing official though. Other details on taxi tests etc.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2013-05-13 05:34:36 and read 30760 times.

Saw an image Airbus site.......Airbus current corporate livery.

Looks like an airplane now. Sleek and Euro white!!!!

[Edited 2013-05-13 06:14:02]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: lszb
Posted 2013-05-13 05:52:56 and read 30690 times.

New pictures on the official airbus homepage:

http://www.airbus.com/galleries/phot...to-gallery/filter/a350-xwb-family/

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: sturmovik
Posted 2013-05-13 06:13:22 and read 30639 times.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...50-emerges-in-full-colours-385779/

She looks awesome..   

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-13 08:16:13 and read 30062 times.

Slender young style.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: speedbird2263
Posted 2013-05-13 08:31:26 and read 30112 times.

That bird's got swag...I never thought I'd say it when I found out awhile back they were going with the A380 style nose, but she's got it.  

  
-2263

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-13 08:42:56 and read 30028 times.

The Glasses has a thin edge.
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3272/a350xwboutofpaintshotwi.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bthebest
Posted 2013-05-13 09:05:16 and read 29749 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 211):

Great angle!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-13 09:06:20 and read 29815 times.

Quoting speedbird2263 (Reply 210):
I never thought I'd say it when I found out awhile back they were going with the A380 style nose

That is a 'lifting nose,' it cuts cruise drag nicely and improves low speed stability.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mbj2000
Posted 2013-05-13 09:07:08 and read 29811 times.

Looks great! It had somehow a chubby figure as it was unpainted, but now it's just WOW!  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BoeEngr
Posted 2013-05-13 09:15:12 and read 29739 times.

That's one nice looking bird. Congratulations to the men and women of Airbus. Well done.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: virginblue4
Posted 2013-05-13 09:24:00 and read 29701 times.

Looks much sleeker than I had ever imagined. Very excited to see it make it's first flight!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: United727
Posted 2013-05-13 09:24:20 and read 29790 times.

Let the speculation begin...A350 flight during one of the more famous air shows in "France"? Maybe..Possibly..Could be?
  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: FriendlySkies
Posted 2013-05-13 10:33:25 and read 29441 times.

Nice looking bird...but that ninja mask looks pretty darn cheesy.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: oykie
Posted 2013-05-13 11:30:11 and read 29287 times.

The A350 is easily one of the best looking airplanes! Just stunning!!!   The A350 looks state of the art and just looking at it shows the advances humans have made in technology, modern Production techinques, aerodynamics and propulsions. I look forward to my first flight in the A350!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-13 11:45:19 and read 29180 times.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 218):
Nice looking bird...but that ninja mask looks pretty darn cheesy.

   That it does... Maybe it will grow on us? But it does look like a cheesy 'superhero' mask.

Quoting oykie (Reply 219):

The A350 is easily one of the best looking airplanes! Just stunning!!!

In everything but the 'window mask.'


Lightsaber

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Coronado
Posted 2013-05-13 12:40:18 and read 28959 times.

Very distinctive eyes, if this is carried over to delivered production units for their customers, this killer white shark mask will certainly be noticed by casual observers looking out through the terminal windows when the aircraft is pulled up to a jet bridge.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: oykie
Posted 2013-05-13 13:03:07 and read 28585 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 220):
In everything but the 'window mask.'

    

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-05-13 13:46:06 and read 28381 times.

Very nice indeed. It will look even better in some of the customers c/s.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 213):
That is a 'lifting nose,' it cuts cruise drag nicely and improves low speed stability.

to me, the nose looked smaller relative to the size of the body, but still very sleek and as noted, with good AD properties.

Yes, the bandit mask stands out. I hope someone will get creative with it!

Oh, and those wings, very nice sharklets.

[Edited 2013-05-13 13:49:01]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-05-13 14:41:53 and read 28494 times.

Since some people don't like the window mask, here's what the A350 looks like without them.



And the 787 with them.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-05-13 14:52:04 and read 28100 times.

Yeah not feeling the "glasses"! Or the black eyes which I think are more apt!!! Lol

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-05-13 17:41:11 and read 27571 times.

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 208):
She looks awesome..

Yes she does!  .

Quoting speedbird2263 (Reply 210):
That bird's got swag...I never thought I'd say it when I found out awhile back they were going with the A380 style nose, but she's got it.

I always was positive about that nose, but the result is even better looking then expected.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 223):
Very nice indeed. It will look even better in some of the customers c/s.

In most customer liveries she will look even better. A great plane to see. Now let's see her fly.   .

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: curiousflyer
Posted 2013-05-13 18:54:45 and read 27539 times.

Very unexpected retro nose! I like it a lot.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-13 19:08:10 and read 27576 times.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 223):
es, the bandit mask stands out. I hope someone will get creative with it!

   I see room to have fun with the A350 design...

Quoting ghifty (Reply 224):
And the 787 with them.

Ack, it looks like an attack chipmunk!   

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: speedbird2263
Posted 2013-05-13 19:14:28 and read 27574 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 213):
That is a 'lifting nose,' it cuts cruise drag nicely and improves low speed stability.

I remember reading it had to do with better aerodynamics but didn't quite get the details. I'm all or better performance and efficiency indeed.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 226):
I always was positive about that nose, but the result is even better looking then expected.

The artistic renditions at the time weren't exactly flattering, especially after having seen the original dashing lines of the flightdeck. However, I admit it looks like a serious machine 

-2263

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-14 00:21:48 and read 26903 times.

Good work
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6443/a350xwbpaintshoprollout.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-05-14 02:17:06 and read 26408 times.

Airbus just posted the official rollout video on their YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHr8l2sfWig

Some very beautiful views. The A350 is a pretty aesthetically-pleasing aircraft, especially from Airbus.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-14 02:33:50 and read 26206 times.

Not a plane to get exited about. Just a few little details are different, otherwise its a generic twinjet like sadly almost everyone else these days. Another step to aviation boredom.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-14 03:04:37 and read 25938 times.

Quoting na (Reply 232):
Not a plane to get exited about. Just a few little details are different, otherwise its a generic twinjet like sadly almost everyone else these days. Another step to aviation boredom.

They do have to obey the laws of physics and economics.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: pvjin
Posted 2013-05-14 03:17:27 and read 25871 times.

Beautiful aircraft, I like the shape of the nose way better than with B787.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-14 03:20:26 and read 25971 times.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ALFqaLDclGI/UZGzQkpL2xI/AAAAAAAALKs/gwqB_qoIwNA/s1600/919271_10151580914844020_757740627_o.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U1iQbwt-MzY/UZGzUPNbH0I/AAAAAAAALK8/iqhBSkRu6Fg/s1600/919713_10151581510054020_406020788_o.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mgWj6asFfyw/UZGzRI5st6I/AAAAAAAALK0/QhXvdPU1jhU/s1600/919407_10151581510524020_1112716729_o.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GX9vhrwNkS4/UZGzVioS7aI/AAAAAAAALLM/in90rWLKe8E/s1600/922197_10151580915734020_886985434_o.jpg

Source: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=103234157#post103234157

EK413

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-14 03:23:18 and read 25872 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 233):
They do have to obey the laws of physics and economics.

Sure, but if everything looks the same nobody can expect me to say "wow". In 10 years there will only be the A380 and the 748F as newbuild planes which will offer some diversity, the rest will be boring, boring, boring, wherever its being built.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-05-14 03:30:29 and read 25815 times.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 231):
Some very beautiful views. The A350 is a pretty aesthetically-pleasing aircraft, especially from Airbus.

  

I think it is a fine-looking aircraft, stylish and even elegant.

mariner

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: tropical
Posted 2013-05-14 03:39:54 and read 25726 times.

Quoting na (Reply 236):
Sure, but if everything looks the same nobody can expect me to say "wow". In 10 years there will only be the A380 and the 748F as newbuild planes which will offer some diversity, the rest will be boring, boring, boring, wherever its being built.

I might live in cuckooland, but I wouldn't bet against a new supersonic passenger jet being introduced in the next 20-25 years. Couldn't say whether it'll be a two or four-holer though
 

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-05-14 03:48:55 and read 25652 times.

It looks better than I expected but it is not a pretty aircraft. The 777 looks better and so does the 787 even though I am not a huge fan of the 787 either.

The nose section is just too strange to look at (from the side. from the font it looks okay) I think and the winglets look like something from a cartoon and look like an afterthought somehow.

[Edited 2013-05-14 03:53:29]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Jumpjet
Posted 2013-05-14 04:31:17 and read 25335 times.

  

My thoughts, for what they're worth, is that this is a very attractive machine. It has a definite grace and appeal to it, almost a feminine look whilst simply sat still on the ground. I'm sure that when in it's true element and actually airborne, it'll be even better.  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Pihero
Posted 2013-05-14 05:01:03 and read 25076 times.

Amusing : the party crashers and party spoilers on this thread - and the other, btw - must be teed off   
To be serious : What is amazing - to me, at least - is that the lines of this airplane hide its dimensions : 67 m long, a fuselage that's 6 m wide and a tail cculminating at more than 17 m.
This is one big lady, but so slender and elegant.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Jumpjet
Posted 2013-05-14 05:10:40 and read 24980 times.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 241):
Amusing : the party crashers and party spoilers on this thread - and the other, btw - must be teed off
To be serious : What is amazing - to me, at least - is that the lines of this airplane hide its dimensions : 67 m long, a fuselage that's 6 m wide and a tail cculminating at more than 17 m.
This is one big lady, but so slender and elegant.

So how do the dimension compare to the B787? I've tried to find a couple of scaled silhouettes of the A350 and B787 against each other without joy.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: autothrust
Posted 2013-05-14 05:16:50 and read 24976 times.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 239):
The 777 looks better and so does the 787 even though I am not a huge fan of the 787 either.

Strongly disagree, the 777 is just a tube and is as boring as hell, the 787 is thousand times more aestethically pleasing. I would dare to say even more of a beauty then the A350.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: gatorman96
Posted 2013-05-14 05:18:18 and read 24956 times.

Awesome bird. congrats Airbus!

I know people always say an airplane is a tube with wings, they all look the same, but it is amazing to see all of the different design elements and philosophy differences between A and B. Can't wait to see her fly

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: cv990coronado
Posted 2013-05-14 05:28:53 and read 24853 times.

What a beautiful aircraft even better than the 787 and she is good looking. Lets hope she is as quiet as the 380, she is of course much better looking but looks are not the 380's strong-point IMO.
Fingers crossed for a Paris 2013 Airshow flypast.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: StickShaker
Posted 2013-05-14 05:42:00 and read 24808 times.

I agree the 350 is particularly elegant and graceful in appearance - but the best could be yet to come. Once in flight there will no doubt be quite a bit of wing flex (aka787) which I think will enhance what is already a sharp looking bird.



Regards,
StickShaker

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-14 05:48:59 and read 24746 times.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 241):
This is one big lady

Then Superfly will love it! 

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: maxter
Posted 2013-05-14 06:01:01 and read 24646 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 237):
I think it is a fine-looking aircraft, stylish and even elegant.

Too true Mariner, too true... and for those of us who were fortunate to have flown in the Viscount and Comet era, it also has some nostalgia value as well.

Well done Airbus, a beautiful bird indeed.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-14 06:22:24 and read 24519 times.

Quoting autothrust (Reply 243):
the 787 is thousand times more aestethically pleasing. I would dare to say even more of a beauty then the A350.

Not to start anything, but it would be interesting to see side-by-side head-on views of A350 and B787 showing wing-to-body treatment, dihedral, etc.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-05-14 06:30:17 and read 24491 times.

Quoting autothrust (Reply 243):
Strongly disagree, the 777 is just a tube and is as boring as hell,

Plus the 777 has the cockpit windows of the 767. Talk about boring!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: afriwing
Posted 2013-05-14 07:07:19 and read 24392 times.

For the first time we have an airplane that came out better looking than the rendering. True the slope of the nose in side-view is a bit strange, but strange doesn't mean ugly in this case (reminds me of the UK's intercity 125HS train's nose   )

Love this new baby, she is classy and elegant. Well done Airbus team. Now she needs to exceed those specs like she exceeded the renderings  



Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 239):
The 777 looks better and so does the 787 even though I am not a huge fan of the 787 either.

 Wow!  Wow!
To each his own of course. But if you think the 777, as bland as she is, is better looking than the 787 then we won't mind that you don't appreciate the beauty of the A350 lol

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: A388
Posted 2013-05-14 07:15:49 and read 24576 times.

Great and a beautiful aircraft I must say. The new generation of aircraft of both Boeing and Airbus are nice, the redesigned nose section is totally different from its predecessors but still nice in my opinion. When is the first flight expected of this A350XWB?

Edit: My apologies, the version is seen on one of the photos. It's the -900 version.


Cheers,

A388

[Edited 2013-05-14 07:51:00]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: davs5032
Posted 2013-05-14 07:28:55 and read 24478 times.

I like overall looks of the A359 very much. I expected it to be a very sleek, modern looking, well-proportioned airplane and it has turned out just as I expected. My only complaint would be with the black "eye shadow" that seems unnecessary to me. I don't know why exactly Airbus has done this. Maybe it's an attempt to try and make the plane look more futuristic; that's the only reason I can think of, but I don't see the need to do this. The plane has a 6-pane cockpit that has a very "Airbus" appearance and ties it to the rest of the A family, and I think this is not a bad thing at all. I don't think it limits the plane's modern-ness, so why try to hide it? I assume that this is purely an option airlines can choose to select or reject, and if so, I'd expect most will not select this look, as I think it looks better/more natural without the black paint.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-14 07:44:18 and read 24389 times.

All current photos from the Airbus-Galery in high res:
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...00/A350_XWB_out_of_paint_shop1.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...00/A350_XWB_out_of_paint_shop2.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...00/A350_XWB_out_of_paint_shop3.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...00/A350_XWB_out_of_paint_shop4.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...WB_out_of_paint_shot_with_team.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi.../A350_XWB_paint_shop_rollout_6.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi.../A350_XWB_paint_shop_rollout_7.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi.../A350_XWB_paint_shop_rollout_8.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi.../A350_XWB_paint_shop_rollout_9.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...A350_XWB_paint_shop_rollout_10.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: A388
Posted 2013-05-14 07:58:12 and read 24344 times.

First photo on airliners.net:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © T.Laurent




This is just very nice!!! A very appropriate registration too!!!

Cheers,

A388

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: hivue
Posted 2013-05-14 08:22:31 and read 24051 times.

There are a dozen probes clustered right around the nose -- air data, AoA, etc. I assume (static ports look they're on the right side of the fuselage). Are some of them there for test only? Will those be their permanenet homes on the production aircraft?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-05-14 08:25:44 and read 24141 times.

Quoting autothrust (Reply 243):
Strongly disagree, the 777 is just a tube and is as boring as hell, the 787 is thousand times more aestethically pleasing. I would dare to say even more of a beauty then the A350.

Well, the difference between the B777 and the B787 is not a factor 1,000 to me. I like the B777 design, but I do like the shape of the B787 better. When I saw the B787 up-close for the first time (from not even 10 meters away driving very slowly by her on a bus at FRA, she impressed me even more.

But now having seen the A350 as she looks now, she might take the crown for most beautiful modern wide-body twin. But the A340-500 remains unsurpassed in beauty to my eyes. But to each his or her own of course.  .

Quoting StickShaker (Reply 246):

I agree the 350 is particularly elegant and graceful in appearance - but the best could be yet to come. Once in flight there will no doubt be quite a bit of wing flex (aka787) which I think will enhance what is already a sharp looking bird.

Very true. In flight, and in the livery of some nice customers, the airplane will look even better. And those wing-lets...........   

Quoting Revelation (Reply 249):
Not to start anything, but it would be interesting to see side-by-side head-on views of A350 and B787 showing wing-to-body treatment, dihedral, etc.

Indeed, we must not start a beauty contest where the judgement is so based on whatever personal bias we all have. At the next big airshow it would be nice to see them head-to-head. However, the B787-9 would make the best comparison with the A350-900. That still will take a few years to see her next to the A350-900.  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-05-14 08:35:58 and read 24093 times.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 239):
It looks better than I expected but it is not a pretty aircraft. The 777 looks better and so does the 787 even though I am not a huge fan of the 787 either.

Strange really - these are basically transport aeroplanes - we don't usually expect other transport modes, like buses or trains, to be 'pretty.'  

I disagree with you about the 777 - given that the 777 was designed 20 years ago, I think it still looks good (and was a revolutionary design, not just in terms of looks, in its time). And I agree that the 787 was, and remains, genuinely 'beautiful.' The A350 looks pretty good to me too (now that it's been painted  ) but looks aren't overly important in this case.

The important thing is that Airbus appears (at long last) to have produced an aeroplane that can compete with the other two. They had a yawning gap in their range (between the A330 and the A380) for far too long; now it's been filled. And Airbus are already getting their fair share of orders.

I think myself that they'll do all right. They've 'aimed' the A350 at the gap between the two Boeings - and the only 'weakness' of the Boeing range is that the 787 can't really manage 9-across, whereas both the 777 and the A350 are designed for it.

So it'll be interesting to see which of the two Boeing types the A350 competes best with. Obviously, the original 'target' was the 787 - but I wouldn't be surprised if the 777 is the area in which the A350 (especially the 'first-built' A359 version) makes the most inroads............

[Edited 2013-05-14 08:37:41]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ContnlEliteCMH
Posted 2013-05-14 10:54:44 and read 23412 times.

I love the black mask around the cockpit windows. I don't like the A380 windows (with which these share a similar shape) but the black mask really does wonders for it.

This is a magnificent looking bird, in my opinion. Best Airbus ever, or so says my eye.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-05-14 11:58:38 and read 23029 times.

Apparently my post was very controversial. Sorry about that.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 258):
Strange really - these are basically transport aeroplanes - we don't usually expect other transport modes, like buses or trains, to be 'pretty.'

Because most of us in here are passionate about aviation. But I guess most people don't care much about this kind of stuff.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-14 12:56:31 and read 22680 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 258):
Strange really - these are basically transport aeroplanes - we don't usually expect other transport modes, like buses or trains, to be 'pretty.'

You obviously don't know any "train people"   They're just as passionate about it.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-05-14 13:00:48 and read 22770 times.

Quoting Jumpjet (Reply 242):
So how do the dimension compare to the B787? I've tried to find a couple of scaled silhouettes of the A350 and B787 against each other without joy.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 249):
Not to start anything, but it would be interesting to see side-by-side head-on views of A350 and B787 showing wing-to-body treatment, dihedral, etc.

This has already been done in the A350 prototypes production thread, here the 359 vs 789 (359 vs 788 would not be fair, they are too different in capacity), there the plan view with the inner wing leading edges aligned:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/350and789topviewdrawingscale200door1aligned_zps02ee0dad.jpg

and here from the front with their fuselage centers aligned:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350vs788frontviewcomparison20120830.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: sturmovik
Posted 2013-05-14 14:09:44 and read 22384 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 257):
But the A340-500 remains unsurpassed in beauty to my eyes.

  

That plane has the best proportions!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-14 14:17:19 and read 22294 times.

I'm happy that brand new planes are being made but I can't say any of the big twins look significantly better than any other...they all look basically alike...except for the single aisles...and even they, (with the Ejets and CSeries), are blending right in.

From the 767 on...I have to find specific identifying features to distinguish one from the other.

The 350 is a good looking plane...just not significantly better or worse than any other big twin.

I understand why twins are the way to go but there are much nicer looking planes.

The 727, Tu-154, VC-10, 747, 340, An146, 146...all are much more interesting looking than any twin...at least to my eyes.

It's like modern cars...sure the corolla and civic are very efficient but their styling led to a whole bunch of really boring looking cars.

So while I recognise the debut of the 350 for the milestone it is, I can't help feeling it's another nail in the coffin of the development of more interesting looking planes.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: thunderboltdrgn
Posted 2013-05-14 14:50:22 and read 22101 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 264):
So while I recognise the debut of the 350 for the milestone it is, I can't help feeling it's another nail in the coffin of the development of more interesting looking planes.

Then what is the definition of interesting? Is it only the looks that makes a plane interesting
or could things that you cannot see from the outside (such as new technology) be considered
as something that makes a plane interesting?

Look wise I think its a good looking aircraft and I do think the nose looks
like a bit like an Embraer E195 but bigger and with different cockpit windows.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-14 15:06:01 and read 22043 times.

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 265):
Then what is the definition of interesting? Is it only the looks that makes a plane interesting

I'm only talking about looks...that's why I specifically say 'interesting looking'. As I mentioned, I fully understand why twins make the most sense for most aircraft, but they all look basically the same. Yes, they have some differences but to the eye, a twin, is a twin, is a twin.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: queb
Posted 2013-05-14 16:40:43 and read 21804 times.

Per Jon Ostrower on Twitter:

"Sources: Airbus aims for 1st A350 APU run as early as Wed., Trent XWB engine start as early as week's end. MSN1 in C63 bldg for elec. tests."

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/334451027157860352

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Atlflyer
Posted 2013-05-14 17:16:27 and read 21669 times.

I think the 787-9 will look much better than the 787-8. The A350-900 I think will be the best of all the A350s...

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-05-14 18:47:24 and read 21480 times.

I'll add my 2-cents worth and congratulate Airbus for this most elegant of big twins.

To me, this is the best looking aircraft there is currently, despite my fondness for the A345. And while the 789 too will be a great looking craft, I think the 788 is disproportionate, needing a longer fuselage. Though when it comes to longer, I suspect the A35J will be the best looking in the series.

Looking forward to seeing the A359 fully laden with her undercarriage in a crouch and wings swept heavily with the weight of fuel. What a great sight that will be and what a cracker looking plane.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-14 19:57:40 and read 21440 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 262):
here the 359 vs 789

Thanks!

Another comparison, now that both have their evening clothes on!  http://oi40.tinypic.com/t9h6br.jpg

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Pihero
Posted 2013-05-14 20:02:20 and read 21339 times.

Quoting hivue (Reply 256):
(static ports look they're on the right side of the fuselage).

Static ports are paired on symetrical positions on both sides of the fuselage.
See TechOps thread for the rest of your question.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: blrsea
Posted 2013-05-14 20:04:08 and read 21368 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 270):
Another comparison, now that both have their evening clothes on!

The A350 looks like a cool guy while the 787 appears to be having a wide smile due to its livery!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-14 20:22:08 and read 21277 times.

The 787 looks wider.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-14 20:38:51 and read 21309 times.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 272):
The A350 looks like a cool guy

Wonder if someone will get out Photoshop and give the 787 the "raccoon eyes"?  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-05-14 21:07:26 and read 21239 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 274):
Wonder if someone will get out Photoshop and give the 787 the "raccoon eyes"?

I already did. Reply 224.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-15 00:33:59 and read 20887 times.

Is the envy already large and empties into one of the new themes?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-15 01:38:56 and read 21130 times.

Soon are started for the first time APU and also in the next days the Trent engines.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-15 05:20:04 and read 20551 times.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 275):
I already did. Reply 224.

Thanks, I enjoyed that, but I was also wondering what 787 + raccoon eyes would look like.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-15 05:52:15 and read 20512 times.

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 268):
The A350-900 I think will be the best of all the A350s...

I'm not sure yet, the A350-1000 will look pretty nice with those six-wheel bogies  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-16 02:34:14 and read 19386 times.

Is the A350-900 the new beautiful boss in the sky?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-05-16 02:53:20 and read 19297 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 280):
Is the A350-900 the new beautiful boss in the sky?

Until her big sister arrives.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-05-16 03:10:09 and read 19258 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 280):

Is the A350-900 the new beautiful boss in the sky?

No. Haven't you heard? It's the ugliest airliner in history, as per a global consensus...
  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-16 03:51:19 and read 19035 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 282):
No. Haven't you heard? It's the ugliest airliner in history, as per a global consensus...

Was that a "global consensus" from malicious tongues?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-16 08:11:30 and read 18679 times.

"Maiden flight on 13 June"

http://www.airliners.de/airbus-nennt-termin-fuer-a350-erstflug/29631

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-05-16 12:11:51 and read 18274 times.

There's a video of the rollout of the hangar from Airbus here

http://youtu.be/DHr8l2sfWig

Sorry if it was already posted.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-16 15:29:36 and read 18013 times.

"A350" belly painting for the flyover to Le Bourget?
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/1556/a350xwbparisairshow2013.jpg
From http://www.facebook.com/A350XWB

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Ruscoe
Posted 2013-05-16 16:30:03 and read 17841 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 258):
Boeing range is that the 787 can't really manage 9-across,

The 787 just does it, and airlines are doing it.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 258):
The A350 looks pretty good to me too (now that it's been painted

I agree with this, but although an attractive aircraft, the 6 cockpit windows, the straight wing (no matter how efficient) , the disproportionate tail, and the wheel bogies obviously made for another aircraft, make it look aged already to me. The 351 with 6 wheel bogie should look good.

Ruscoe

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-16 17:34:30 and read 17711 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 287):
The 787 just does it, and airlines are doing it.

If the 787 can do nine across, then the A350 can do ten across.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-16 17:45:08 and read 17722 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 288):

It could with about 16" wide seats. I believe the seats in the 9 abreast 787 are 17.2 inches...or about the same as on the 10 abreast 777 or 747 or 6 abreast 737.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: DeltaB717
Posted 2013-05-16 17:54:33 and read 17755 times.

Those winglets!!! O... M... G!!!

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-17 01:16:00 and read 17256 times.

A well equipped young beautiful lady of the sky.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: parapente
Posted 2013-05-17 01:39:39 and read 17213 times.

Reply 289
It could with about 16" wide seats. I believe the seats in the 9 abreast 787 are 17.2 inches...or about the same as on the 10 abreast 777 or 747 or 6 abreast 737.


I believe that is right. I think it is 16.5 actually but no more. (simple maths really if you shrink the (18in) seats by 2" each x9 and shrink the isles a couple of inches too you get more than the extra 16" required.(22" in fact)

I am sure Airbus released a pici of it in 10 abreast"package holiday class" some time ago. I did once go on a 330 with X9 (same thing really). Not great (I am 5' 10") but OK for a few hours. Somehow it's OK if it's a package holiday but not if it's scheduled (perhaps thats just me).

I can't see many scheduled airlines going for this X10 option - but package yup why not.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Alpage
Posted 2013-05-17 01:58:21 and read 17135 times.

Excellent point Bogi about the belly pain...

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-05-17 02:14:11 and read 17086 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 278):
Thanks, I enjoyed that, but I was also wondering what 787 + raccoon eyes would look like.

Like the 767 bandit?

Quoting Bogi (Reply 286):
"A350" belly painting for the flyover to Le Bourget?

Could this be the "modification" to the livery which has been talked about?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: StickShaker
Posted 2013-05-17 03:45:01 and read 16765 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 287):
the straight wing (no matter how efficient)

It should bend a bit in flight - makes it all the more elegant.



Cheers,
StickShaker

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: MigPilot
Posted 2013-05-17 07:49:21 and read 16318 times.

Quoting StickShaker (Reply 295):
It should bend a bit in flight - makes it all the more elegant.

actually I like it when the wings do not bend so much upwards. For me, the 787 wings flex way too much. It more looks like a sailplane than a jet plane. Nothing against sailplanes... but duhh
 

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-18 02:45:25 and read 15482 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 288):
If the 787 can do nine across, then the A350 can do ten across.

Airbus advertises 10-abreast on its website and AirAsiaX will do 10-abreast so yes it is possible. I believe the seats will be around 16.4".

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-05-18 03:33:10 and read 15358 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 287):
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 258):Boeing range is that the 787 can't really manage 9-across,
The 787 just does it, and airlines are doing it.

Yes, Ruscoe, I was just plain wrong! Not sure if (even though I'm no more than 'normal size') I'd enjoy sitting in a 17" seat on a 6,000-mile flight, though.  

And, as KarelXWB implies, it remains to be seen whether Airbus find themselves having to go for fleet-wide 10-across 16" seats in economy on the A350 to stay competitive.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S-iJ1FmyFw

[Edited 2013-05-18 03:47:40]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-05-18 03:55:43 and read 15193 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 287):
the disproportionate tail

In what way is the tail "disproportionate"?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 298):
it remains to be seen whether Airbus find themselves having to go for fleet-wide 10-across 16" seats in economy on the A350 to stay competitive.......

That will be the choice of its customers, not Airbus.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: BuyantUkhaa
Posted 2013-05-19 05:30:09 and read 14075 times.

Quoting Alpage (Reply 293):

Excellent point Bogi about the belly pain...

Where does it hurt?   

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-05-19 13:25:54 and read 13298 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 284):
"Maiden flight on 13 June"

So even before the Paris Air Show!? .

Quoting Bogi (Reply 286):
"A350" belly painting for the flyover to Le Bourget?

What works for EK must also work for Airbus.  .

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 297):
Airbus advertises 10-abreast on its website and AirAsiaX will do 10-abreast so yes it is possible. I believe the seats will be around 16.4".

Still I would not like to fly on such a configured aircraft for long routes. It will be even more cramped then a 10-abreast B777.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Klaus
Posted 2013-05-19 18:23:51 and read 13051 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 287):
I agree with this, but although an attractive aircraft, the 6 cockpit windows, the straight wing (no matter how efficient) , the disproportionate tail, and the wheel bogies obviously made for another aircraft, make it look aged already to me.

You're entitled to your subjective preferences, but I see none of what you're seeing.

That the bogies are obviously custom-made for the A359 (each of the three variants is expected to get different ones, as far as I'm aware) is just one of several points where your judgment looks a little wonky to me...!   

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-05-19 19:14:06 and read 12920 times.

The -900 and -800 share the same bogie AFAIK

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Klaus
Posted 2013-05-19 19:20:48 and read 12927 times.

The schematic drawings posted elsewhere seemed to show the -800 getting a narrower set, which would make sense since it doesn't have as much weight to distribute and would benefit from a lighter design.

Even if the (now in doubt) -800 would in fact get the same bogies, those would by necessity be sized for the -900, not for the -800.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Ruscoe
Posted 2013-05-19 23:54:11 and read 12536 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 302):
quoting Ruscoe and the wheel bogies obviously made for another aircraft,

My apologies Klaus, it was my way of saying in my opinion, the bogies on the 359 look awkward, and as if they were not meant for this aircraft.

Ruscoe

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: maxter
Posted 2013-05-20 02:15:22 and read 12083 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 302):
...is just one of several points where your judgment looks a little wonky to me...!

Wonky and entirely predictable, nothing new here, time to move along.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-20 03:44:29 and read 11875 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 304):
The schematic drawings posted elsewhere seemed to show the -800 getting a narrower set, which would make sense since it doesn't have as much weight to distribute and would benefit from a lighter design.

Here is the picture:

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: macc
Posted 2013-05-20 07:58:03 and read 11130 times.

Anyone has news about ground testing? taxi and braking?

And MODS, can I suggest a second part? We have come to more than 300 posts now.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-05-20 08:00:01 and read 11144 times.

Little birds were tjirping about first APU run today.....

Haven't heard about it actually happening yet

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Klaus
Posted 2013-05-20 09:15:32 and read 10882 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 305):
My apologies Klaus, it was my way of saying in my opinion, the bogies on the 359 look awkward, and as if they were not meant for this aircraft.

It's a rather large and heavy bird, so pavement loading needs to be addressed. That the -1000 is getting six-wheel bogies is a pretty good sign that the -900 is about the maximum feasible with four; The -900 bogies have a somewhat unusual appearance, but they are plausible and consistent when you think about it.

It would be weird if nothing ever changed with completely new models.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 307):
Here is the picture:

Yep. Thank you!

If these schematics are correct, all three models will get their own specific set of landing gears (likely different strength variants of the struts as well).

[Edited 2013-05-20 09:33:11]

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-21 01:25:31 and read 9864 times.

Yea!
Quote:
Airbus reiterated it plans to fly the A350 around the middle of the year and declined further comment on the plane's debut.

However, the prospect of Airbus flaunting its newest jet from the air increased as photographs of an A350 logo painted on the plane's belly circulated on the Internet. Such belly markings are typically used for branding in air show flypasts.
http://tvnz.co.nz/travel-news/first-...ld-make-paris-show-flypast-5444073

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Alpage
Posted 2013-05-21 03:07:32 and read 9478 times.

No pain no gain...

Thanks BuyantUkhaa  

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-05-21 03:47:48 and read 9309 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 301):
Quoting Bogi (Reply 284):
"Maiden flight on 13 June"

So even before the Paris Air Show!? .


Pretty clear now that Airbus are hoping to do a 'fly-over' at the Paris Show. But that will depend on all the ground and air tests going perfectly; they'll never be allowed to fly low over hundreds of thousands of people unless they do.

Personally I hope they manage it. A lot of people have put a lot of effort into the A350. I hope they get the chance to see the thing fly at an important event this year, not next year.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: deaphen
Posted 2013-05-21 04:09:44 and read 9140 times.

Any actual flight deck or interior shots?

Nitin

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-05-21 04:16:20 and read 9084 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 310):
If these schematics are correct, all three models will get their own specific set of landing gears (likely different strength variants of the struts as well).

Looks like the -800 will indeed get a narrower bogie. I thought the -800 would be a non-optimised 'simple' shrink from the -900, but it seems it will still get its own MLG. Which makes sense of course, it's an easy way to save weight. It also looks like the -1000 will get a narrower bogie, and smaller wheels as well.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 311):

Well, Airbus surely is prepared for a possible flyby at Le Bourget. But I strongly doubt you will hear an announcement from them. Too many uncertainties. Date of first flight is not certain, and those of the following flights are even more uncertain as you will never know what issues have to be resolved. So, if one of the test flights can be combined with a flyby at Le Bourget it would be a bonus, but not a priority. Think of it: an unannounced flyby will only generate great publicity, but an announced but cancelled flyby will cause disappointment. It's best not to set expectations too high.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2013-05-21 04:20:31 and read 9053 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 313):
Pretty clear now that Airbus are hoping to do a 'fly-over' at the Paris Show. But that will depend on all the ground and air tests going perfectly; they'll never be allowed to fly low over hundreds of thousands of people unless they do.

Do they need to prove 24 hours of safe operations until they can fly over populated areas?

At least I've heard that number during the 787 flight testing...


David

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-21 12:53:50 and read 8192 times.

If they fly before or during the airshow, I have no doubt they will do a fly by...probably nothing fancy but enough to get some fantastic press. After all, they have to fly somewhere during flight testing and Le Bourget isn't exactly across the world from Toulouse.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-05-21 18:00:48 and read 7481 times.

I'm skeptical about the A350 flying at Le Bourget. This all feels like unnecessary rush. After the 787 roll out, I just dislike the idea of manufacturer working against stupid, elective deadlines. If the first flight is on June 13th, flying at Le Bourget a week later sounds stupid to me. I mean it took one week before the A380 went for its second flight. Why rush things. I'd be disappointed by Airbus if they do so. Just unprofessional.

Just the idea that they may be cutting just one little corner in the coming weeks to achieve that goal makes me very uneasy. Really. Who cares. If they send it to Le Bourget, it will just show there is a need for adult supervision in Toulouse.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: Ruscoe
Posted 2013-05-21 19:13:32 and read 7356 times.

I think it is highly likely that Airbus have some 350 sales which are dependant on a successful first fight.

IMO geting in the air before Paris is important so orders can be announced, rather than showing the aircraft.

Ruscoe

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-21 19:13:38 and read 7355 times.

Quoting a380900 (Reply 318):
This all feels like unnecessary rush.

Well, first flight at least does fit in with the Airbus timetable. As much as they'd like to fly at the show, I think, (hope), Airbus has learned a thing or two about PR for its own sake and they won't fly until it's ready. That being said, if it is flying, the show is only 300 or so miles from Toulouse.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: A380900
Posted 2013-05-21 19:31:08 and read 7312 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 320):
That being said, if it is flying, the show is only 300 or so miles from Toulouse.

Still. I think sending the plane there just "out of the egg", with no extensive tests beforehand, does not really make sense. I mean it would be its second or third flight? It juste seems unholy...

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-05-21 19:31:39 and read 7328 times.

They will not cut corners to fly-by at Le Bourget but you can bet that they're quietly working away to ensure that everything goes smoothly and the stars align for the possibility of an unannounced demonstration.

If everything does come together for them on time, it would be a big opportunity to squander.

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-05-21 20:06:15 and read 7249 times.

Live feed to a big screen TV from Toulouse?

Topic: RE: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-05-21 20:36:02 and read 7183 times.

Due to length of this thread, it will be archived. Part two is available here: A350XWB Countdown To The First Flight Part 2 (by iowaman May 21 2013 in Civil Aviation)


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