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Topic: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Paolo92
Posted 2013-04-21 06:42:59 and read 16304 times.

According to CH-Aviation, Lufthansa plans to replace the 70-seater CRJ700 at its regional subsidiary, LH CityLine.
CityLine to retire CRJ-700 fleet as part of Lufthansa regional fleet plans?

What could be the replacement?

Lufthansa CityLine now has a fleet of:
20x CRJ700 (70-seats)
12x CRJ900 (90-seats)
9x E190 (100-seats)
19x E195 (120-seats)

Within the end of this summer season, 5 additional E195 will be added (ex-Augsburg Airways) and possibly also the 2 E190 IQ has (leased from LH too, as the E195).

Would those CR7 be replaced with CR9 aircraft or rather with bigger planes? LH could arrange a deal with Bombardier so that BBD would take back the 700s delivering them some new CRJ900, or even some CRJ1000.
If they plan to increase further the seating capacity they could even order some CS100, but that would be comparable to the E195.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-21 07:20:06 and read 16065 times.

I am never happy to see an airline retire a model from its fleet but in this case I am. The CRJ-700 is a horrible aircraft, speaking as a passenger.

Quoting Paolo92 (Thread starter):
Would those CR7 be replaced with CR9 aircraft or rather with bigger planes? LH could arrange a deal with Bombardier so that BBD would take back the 700s delivering them some new CRJ900, or even some CRJ1000

I might be wrong but it seems to me that they are trying to make CityLine an all Embraer operator. The CRJ-900 has 10 less seats than the E190 and I do not know if they really need the CRJ-900 since the E190 can do its job just fine.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2013-04-21 07:30:31 and read 15975 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 1):
The CRJ-700 is a horrible aircraft

Why ?

Personally I don't like it either. To cramped ... All the CRJ's are ...

[Edited 2013-04-21 07:31:35]

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-21 07:37:03 and read 15920 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 2):

Too cramped and every time I sit in the back I have a feeling the front of the aircraft is way too low.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2013-04-21 07:48:55 and read 15814 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 3):

Glad to see that there are other people who feels the same way as me. What also annoys me is the lack of storage space for handluggage. The cabinluggage that I get on on every other Aircraft, is always put in the hold on this Aircraft. ...

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-21 07:56:51 and read 15743 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):

I never take hand-luggage with me, I can't be bothered to drag it through the airport but are the overhead bins in the Embraer larger?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2013-04-21 08:01:19 and read 15721 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):

Please dump the CRJs and add more E-series. Just to note: a few months ago I flew a cityline E-190 or E-195 and last week a KLM E-190 and the seats of the LH E-19x were so much better...

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-21 08:04:11 and read 15680 times.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 6):
seats of the LH E-19x were so much better...

What made them better? Legroom or the quality of the actual seat?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2013-04-21 08:06:53 and read 15653 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 5):
are the overhead bins in the Embraer larger

Don't know. Have'nt flown one ...

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: columba
Posted 2013-04-21 09:37:12 and read 15255 times.

Maybe they can make a deal with Bombardier and return the CRJ 700s and get CSeries instead.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: visualapproach
Posted 2013-04-21 10:18:44 and read 14843 times.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 6):
Just to note: a few months ago I flew a cityline E-190 or E-195 and last week a KLM E-190 and the seats of the LH E-19x were so much better...

Aren't all Embraer 170/190 series seats the same type though?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-04-21 10:21:31 and read 14801 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
Quoting JU068 (Reply 5):

I've flown on both of these aircraft (albeit on US Airways), and the overheads on thed E-jets are considerably larger

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-04-21 11:43:00 and read 13481 times.

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 10):
Quoting AngMoh (Reply 6):Just to note: a few months ago I flew a cityline E-190 or E-195 and last week a KLM E-190 and the seats of the LH E-19x were so much better...
Aren't all Embraer 170/190 series seats the same type though?

I know what the various posts mean, about the CRJ feeling cramped.

The CRJ fuselage cross section is smaller due to the way the two are constructed, ad the CRJ cabins sits higher and is more dramatically sloped (causing the lower ceiling, smaller bins and narrower cabin at window height - something I notice when in a CRJ window seat). Narrower seats and aisles too, according to the post in this thread, that discusses it at length:

CRJ Vs ERJ170 Cabin Cross Section (by Flyboy80 Feb 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: bahadir
Posted 2013-04-21 11:55:52 and read 13268 times.

I have a feeling like those CRJ700s will find their way to US.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: douglasyxz
Posted 2013-04-21 12:30:10 and read 12632 times.

Two month back I flew on E190, Q400, CRJ700 and CRJ900 STR-MUC-WRO and back. Among those four, the E-Jet is by far the best aircraft from a passengers point of view: very quiet, more space than in the CRJ's and overhead bins big enough for a cabin trolley. With engines under the wings, boarding and deboarding is possible fore and aft - making the procedure more comfortable.
Thanks to a kind cockpit crew, I had a look at the flight deck and a nice conversation prior to departure. The FO told me that within LH CityLine, the E-Jet is considered as the most efficient aircraft they operate. Would love to see more of them (or CSeries) replacing CRJ,s.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: LuftyMatt
Posted 2013-04-21 12:35:57 and read 12562 times.

Is LH Cityline here to stay then? I was under the impression that all stations (apart from FRA and MUC) that German wings would be taking over the routes. I'd be glad if CityLine did still carry on though   Granted I have been out of the loop for a while.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: douglasyxz
Posted 2013-04-21 12:49:52 and read 12326 times.

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 15):
Is LH Cityline here to stay then?

LH CityLine is supposed to stay and serve small destinations out of FRA and MUC that require small aircraft.
Same goes for Air Dolomiti feeding LH mainline in MUC from North Italy.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: LuftyMatt
Posted 2013-04-21 14:07:23 and read 11227 times.

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 16):

Thanks, will the fleet size decrease or stay the same?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: douglasyxz
Posted 2013-04-21 14:37:27 and read 10744 times.

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 17):

No information has been released about a fleet size of CityLine. Their headquarters is planned to be moved from Cologne to Munich as a part of LH's 'Score' cost-cutting program.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-04-21 15:36:43 and read 9957 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 5):

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):

I never take hand-luggage with me, I can't be bothered to drag it through the airport but are the overhead bins in the Embraer larger?

Why don't you check your luggage instead of taking up all the available room on the aircraft? I don't see the reason that anybody would want to drag all that luggage through the airport. I just bring my carry on and my laptop which conveniently fits in my carryon. My bag is checked and I have yet to have a problem. Most times it is there before I get to the baggage reclaim belt. The only time I had a delayed bag was the only time I flew with WN, it eventually showed up three days later.

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 10):

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 6):
Just to note: a few months ago I flew a cityline E-190 or E-195 and last week a KLM E-190 and the seats of the LH E-19x were so much better...

Aren't all Embraer 170/190 series seats the same type though?

Usually the seats are airline specific and have very little to do with the aircraft. I, for what it is worth don't like flying in CRJ's or ERJ's on the DL connector service or with UA Express or whatever they are called.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-04-21 15:43:12 and read 9877 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 19):

I can only speak for myself, but I don't check any luggage unless it is free or I have to gate check something. I have a bag I always travel with that isn't huge, but can be a pain to lug around with me.

Just because somebody doesn't want to be pained when they travel doesn't mean they are using huge luggage that will take up all the room on the plane.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: B747forever
Posted 2013-04-21 16:11:50 and read 9566 times.

I dont know why some dislike the CRJ700 so much. The overhead bins might be a bit smaller, but otherwise it is a fine aircraft.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2013-04-21 17:27:23 and read 8873 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 19):
Why don't you check your luggage instead of taking up all the available room on the aircraft? I don't see the reason that anybody would want to drag all that luggage through the airport. I just bring my carry on and my laptop which conveniently fits in my carryon. My bag is checked and I have yet to have a problem

Well, I never travel for business, so I rarely have that little luggage. I'm talking about holiday travel, wich mens I have both checked in and carry on luggage. The CRJ is the only Aircraft ( and I have flown most big and small shorthaul, regional and longhaul Aircraft ) that I have flown on where I have gotten into trouble With carry on luggage ( it is ofcourse the standard size accepted on all other Aircraft ). I never have a problem on Aircraft around the same size, such as the ATR, the DASH 300 / q400, the Saab 340, the Fokker F50 ... and not even on the tiny Embraer EMB110P1 Bandeirante I have had this problem. There has always been room on either the floor under the seat in front of me or in the luggage bin.

The carry on luggage I talk about are rucksack cabin roller suitcase or handbag well within the standard normal size accepted on all Aircraft. You make it sound as if it is a full size large 23 kilo size Samsonite suitcase I'm trying to get onboard into the cabin ...

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-04-21 19:10:48 and read 8037 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 21):

I agree, I like flying on them, but when I have the choice between a CRJ700 and an E-Jet, the latter gets my vote almost every time.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Markam
Posted 2013-04-21 19:49:12 and read 7718 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 5):
are the overhead bins in the Embraer larger?

Oh yes, they are considerably larger. I guess that it is not really a fair comparison, since the E-Jets are newer generation aircraft compared to the CRJs, but I find the former much much more comfortable than the latter from a passenger point of view, all other things equal.

Quoting Paolo92 (Thread starter):
20x CRJ700 (70-seats)
12x CRJ900 (90-seats)

Wouldn't the E-170/175 be a good replacement for these CRJs, given the seating capacity required and the advantage of fleet commonality with the E-190/195 already in the LH regional fleet?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Flightlover
Posted 2013-04-21 20:24:34 and read 7743 times.

Flew on the CRJ-200, 700 and 900. Also flew on the Embraer 135, 140, 145, 170, 190 and 195. If one compares the CRJ-700 and 900 with the new Embraer series (170, 175, 190 and 195) then definitely Embraer is one head above the Bombardier. The Embraer is much higher, has the feel of a proper mainline narrow-body plane, whereas the CRJ feels very much like a small, regional jet. Much more space on the Embraer 170-195. The overhead bins on the CRJ-700 and 900 are very tiny. Seat comfort really depends on the configuration. I've flown in Embraer 190 with Air Moldova which is very tight, and have flown CRJ-700 with American Eagle with plenty of legroom.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: B747forever
Posted 2013-04-21 21:41:05 and read 7267 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 23):

Sure, the E170/190 family is a much more comfortable airplane. However the CRJ is not as bad as some try to make it.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-21 21:43:04 and read 7354 times.

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 18):
Their headquarters is planned to be moved from Cologne to Munich as a part of LH's 'Score' cost-cutting program.

I find it interesting that they are moving to Munich, could it mean that their future growth will be concentrated there? Does anyone know when the additional terminal will be completed?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-04-21 22:15:34 and read 7160 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 26):

I agree, the CRJ-700/900 is still one of my aircraft.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: douglasyxz
Posted 2013-04-21 22:34:09 and read 7016 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 27):

CityLine will be based in FRA and MUC only, after 4U takes over connections and aircraft from LH mainline beginning summer 2013.
The new terminal T2 Satellite is supposed to open 2015 with a capacity of 11 million pax per year. The current capacity of MUC is 25 million.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-21 22:56:56 and read 6790 times.

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 29):
CityLine will be based in FRA and MUC only

I might be wrong but didn't someone on here mention that other airports in Germany will be getting the CRJ-900?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: Paolo92
Posted 2013-04-22 00:58:38 and read 5828 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 30):
I might be wrong but didn't someone on here mention that other airports in Germany will be getting the CRJ-900?

The LH Regional brand, includes, as of now, LH CityLine, Air Dolomiti, Augsburg Airways and Eurowings.
Eurowings (which has a fleet of 23 CR9) will be operating for Germanwings, serving smaller routes that do not fit a 319.
Augsburg Airways will leave LH Regional by October 2013, returning the leased Embraers 190&195 to Lufthansa, which will assign them to CityLine.
Air Dolomiti and CityLine will be the two airlines left in LH Regional, serving smaller routes from MUC and FRA.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-04-22 01:13:19 and read 5652 times.

I just flew on a couple of United -700's and I didn't have any problems with the comfort or the bins. I'm 6-1 and a heavy guy and I was comfortable on both flights, (including one from YLW-LAX). Granted the window seat is a bit tight but I prefer aisle seats and my row partner didn't seem bothered by my proximity.

As well, my bag wasn't small and it fit in the overheads, though some people had to gate check...which is a great service as it saves time collecting luggage and is usually free.

Being in a long, thin tube doesn't bother me either...my comfort doesn't come from the space outside of the vicinity of my seat.

There are roomier planes but my flights were quite enjoyable.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2013-04-22 02:46:31 and read 4890 times.

Perhaps Adria Airways can lease some of the CRJ700 that LH wants to retire and replace the current CRJ200. A few more seats might help lower CASM for struggling Adria, though not so many seats as the A319 offers.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-22 03:08:05 and read 4713 times.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 33):

Doubt they need the extra capacity at this point, their average load factor for 2012 was only 67% which is not that great. Also, their A319s are leaving the fleet just before the busy summer season which should tell us how desperately they need the extra seats.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: r2rho
Posted 2013-04-22 05:48:47 and read 3410 times.

This is not so new as there had been rumors about it for some time now. And I am quite sure that pax comfort and overhead bin size are the last things LH had in mind when taking this decision. Profitabilty was likely the driver.
LH is basically saying that it is not worthwhile for them to fly "only" 70pax on a regional jet (though I wonder what will happen to the ex-Augsburg Airways Q400's?). Note how after this, the smallest RJ at LH will have 90+ seats. Are there any scope clauses at LH or can they add 90+ seaters at will? I am not familiar with it.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: birdbrainz
Posted 2013-04-22 06:49:27 and read 2850 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 21):
I dont know why some dislike the CRJ700 so much. The overhead bins might be a bit smaller, but otherwise it is a fine aircraft.

Me, too. After many flights on CRJ-200 or E145, the CRJ700 is a major improvement. Maybe the E170/190 are better, but it's really not that big of a deal.

It's funny though. The E145 is really quiet if it's flying over you, but is noisy inside. The E170s seem fine on the inside, but comparatively not so quiet on the outside.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: nycdave
Posted 2013-04-22 17:34:45 and read 2384 times.

I remember reading on one of these boards that the E-Jets are despised by ground crews? Something about having the most awkward and inefficient baggage hold. Wonder if that or other aspects effect ground/turnaround efficiency, and maybe make the CRJ's more appealing depending on the situation?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-22 17:46:59 and read 2356 times.

I remember reading in their August 2003 in-flight magazine them boasting about how efficient their CR2s were!   

Topic: RE: Lufthansa To Replace CRJ700
Username: davs5032
Posted 2013-04-22 17:50:43 and read 2340 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 26):
Sure, the E170/190 family is a much more comfortable airplane. However the CRJ is not as bad as some try to make it.

I agree with this. The CRJ 700+ is often compared to the ERJ's, but I don't think it's a fair comparison to make, b/c the ERJ's are abnormally spacious for a regional jet. I've been on a 3+ hour flight aboard an ERJ, and felt like it was more comfortable than even a B737 or MD80, so it's in a whole different group really. The CRJ 700+ is a great improvement over the CRJ200 and it's just fine IMO for the short routes that its normally used on.


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