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Topic: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: RJA321
Posted 2013-04-21 13:00:28 and read 17709 times.

A friend of mine posted this video on Facebook and I didn't believe the title until I actually watched the video! I don't even know where to begin... Do people really still try and smoke during a flight? What are the consequences? Will the smoke emitted from the cigarette pose any immediate threat to the aircraft/passengers?

Here is the link to the video, and please let's try and avoid making this a discussion about stereotypes/different cultures etc. that might offend people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tberuhYdy9E&feature=youtu.be

(the conversation taking place in Arabic is the FA firmly asking the passenger to immediately stop smoking, and the passenger refuses to do so).

[Edited 2013-04-21 13:19:30]

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-21 13:09:42 and read 17652 times.

Quoting RJA321 (Thread starter):
Will the smoke emitted from the cigarette pose any immediate threat to the aircraft/passengers?

Erm... of course not.


I remember some time ago I was flying on Cyprus Airways from Larnaca to Paris and two Lebanese guys in front of us started smoking. The crew came around and asked them politely to turn it off. They refused so the first officer came and told them that if they kept on smoking they would have to divert and that there would be consequences. They ended up turning off their cigarettes.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-04-21 13:12:56 and read 17614 times.

Quoting RJA321 (Thread starter):
What are the consequences?

In this part of the world, potential diversion and arrest for refusing to follow flight crew instructions, among other things.

Not sure about other parts of the world.

That said, it's not really a safety of flight issue. People used to smoke on planes all the time. Only difference is now there aren't any ash trays - it's not like planes are suddenly unable to cope with a little cigarette smoke. It's more that it's rude, unhealthy for everyone else, and against regulations. It's also against regulations to refuse to put the cigarette out when a flight crew member tells you to.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2013-04-21 14:06:44 and read 17287 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 2):
Only difference is now there aren't any ash trays

Actually, there are still ashtrays on aircraft, they are required to be in the lavs.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: s5daw
Posted 2013-04-21 14:10:13 and read 17255 times.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Actually, there are still ashtrays on aircraft, they are required to be in the lavs.

Along with the smoke detectors?? Why!?

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-04-21 14:15:44 and read 17227 times.

Smoking onboard an aircraft is not dangerous. Infact it was only in the mid-ninetys that airlines began to phase out smoking cabins, not for safety reasons but simply due to changing trends and customer preference (and I'm sure the cost element of changing air filters helped sweeten the deal too). What is dangerous is having a sneaky one in the toilet and then trying to hide the evidence by placing the butt in the bins.....those things are full of tissues!

As for prosecution, I think this varies from airline to airline. At my carrier it requires an incident report to be completed. If it happens once in the cabin it can be excused as the offender may simply not be aware (increasingly likely these days) and a gracious extinguishing is generally prompt, this situation I would barely bat an eyelid over!

However if someone does take a sneaky one in the toilet the crew do generally discover it quickly and we easily can find out who it is because all we need to do is smell the one muppet who smells of cigarettes! Anyone who does this in my opinion is instantly guilty and will be warned, an incident form completed and the company's assets protection department informed ASAP so that they may decide whether to prosecute or not.

If the individual is a repeat offender on a single flight then I see no option but arrest on arrival. I doubt any pilot would be bothered diverting unless the imminent danger of passengers and crew is a possibility!

I know in Qatar where I used to work smoking would result In the cancelation of the return journey and that seemed to be all, nothing to lose if you have no return journey booked! Lol

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2013-04-21 14:17:38 and read 17214 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 4):
Along with the smoke detectors?? Why!?

Some good info in previous threads on this subject:

Ashtrays In The Lavatories (by Raptor1090 Jun 24 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Would you rather have someone that is dumb enough to light a cigarette in a lav put it out in an ashtray or in a trash can filled with paper towels? If they were dumb enough to break the law by lighting up, they'll be dumb enough to set the trash can on fire LOL

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: jagflyer
Posted 2013-04-21 14:17:46 and read 17214 times.

Two questions: is it possible this is an electronic cigaratte? It doesn't look like the thing in her hand is putting off smoke when she is not pulling on it. Second, what aircraft is this? The interior looks like it's an older model plane but MEA doesn't fly any planes that would fit that description.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-21 16:39:46 and read 16709 times.

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 7):
Second, what aircraft is this?

I think it's an A330.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-04-21 18:15:18 and read 16383 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):

Never seen an A330 with a self help overwing emergency exit!!!!  

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B727FA
Posted 2013-04-21 18:24:06 and read 16333 times.

Ash trays are required equipment in case someone *does* light up then there is an "approved" place to extinguish the cigarette or other item being smoked. I'm amazed at how many passengers assume an a/c is "old" b/c "there are still ash trays on here!"

In the US if a person complies with the directive to cease smoking then there are generally no futher consequences. We will ask the smoker to tell us where the butt is (if they're smoking in the lav) so we can confirm extinction.

That said I haven't had a smoker fire up in 11 years or so...ironically enough a firefighter!

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-21 18:33:18 and read 16292 times.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 9):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):

Never seen an A330 with a self help overwing emergency exit

I said A330 because when it pans up to the overhead service panel (air vents, reading lights etc.) they appear to be angled upward as on the A330, not horizontal over the window seats as on the A320/321, but might be distortion in the video.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: dumbell2424
Posted 2013-04-21 18:40:36 and read 16248 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
I think it's an A330.

I'm pretty sure MEA's 330s are 2-4-2 configuration. The video clearly shows 3 people against the window

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-21 19:14:59 and read 16107 times.

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 12):
I'm pretty sure MEA's 330s are 2-4-2 configuration. The video clearly shows 3 people against the window



Where is the 3rd person? I see the man in the window seat, then the woman smoking, and then the aisle. The flight attendant talking to the woman is beyond the other man watching the video screen in the foreground.so she must be in the aisle.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: dumbell2424
Posted 2013-04-21 19:45:43 and read 15950 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Where is the 3rd person?

Perhaps it's the camera depth distortion, but to me the guy with the laptop, it looks like you can see f/a step back into aisle at 0:26

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: sq_ek_freak
Posted 2013-04-21 20:14:49 and read 15863 times.

Do you know what happened to the passenger and/or flight? Seems like the cabin crew went to get the Purser or one of the pilots after she failed to listen to her instructions.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: allrite
Posted 2013-04-21 22:30:47 and read 15618 times.

On my last flight (Jetstar) some moron was caught smoking after we left the gate at Narita. We had to return to the gate (actually the adjacent one) and offload the passenger and their luggage. Considering that we were already delayed due to a systems crash and risked missing connections I could have incinerated the offending passenger with something stronger than a cigarette.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Rabenschlag
Posted 2013-04-22 02:12:20 and read 13961 times.

On a recent transatlantic flight on an US carrier I witnessed an incident where a German passenger lit up twice (and did other nasty things) and received several warnings, one in written form. The crew de-escalated the situation in an admirable way, which resulted in a relatively calm behavior of the violator during the rest of the flight. She was then escorted away by police after de-boarding.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: theDave
Posted 2013-04-22 02:14:50 and read 13946 times.

I have never understood how people cannot go a few hours without smoking. My wife, a smoker that truly enjoys her habit, has never had a problem with not doing it during flight, even when we fly home to ATL from NRT. With the increasing prevalence of e-cigs you might think they could allow the nic fiends an outlet.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Trijetsonly
Posted 2013-04-22 03:21:44 and read 13302 times.

Smoking in lavatories is quite common in these times. On nearly every long haul flight at some point when I enter the lav I will smell cigarette smoke.
Once I had a conversation about that with a smoker and he told me, that he always takes one breath through the cigarette, shuts it off and relights it one minute later. Then the smoke detector won't recognize it.

For me personally I don't care as long as I don't have to smell it on my seat and as long as there are no burning marks left anywhere.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-04-22 03:54:27 and read 12908 times.

Quoting RJA321 (Thread starter):
Do people really still try and smoke during a flight?

Cubana still allows smoking in-flight.
I've also flown Aeroflot where people were smoking a lot despite the no smoking light that stayed on throughout the flight.
My Aeroflot flight was on an IL-96 with Russian vacationers returning from Thailand. I'm sure this isn't on their flights to Western Europe and to the US on their Western fleet of aircraft.

Are the non-flashy Middle-East carriers liberal with smoking?
I'm sure Saha 707s and Iran Air might allow smoking.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2013-04-22 06:02:46 and read 11206 times.

Quoting theDave (Reply 18):
With the increasing prevalence of e-cigs you might think they could allow the nic fiends an outlet.

Electronic cigarettes are prohibited, mainly due to the heating element (such things are not allowed).

Quoting B727FA (Reply 10):
In the US if a person complies with the directive to cease smoking then there are generally no futher consequences. We will ask the smoker to tell us where the butt is (if they're smoking in the lav) so we can confirm extinction.

That is true if they're smoking at their seat, or in plain view. If they light up in the lav, it's an automatic violation as the FAA sees it as a willful violation (since the pax is purposefully being sneaky about it). We are to report the offense via company established procedures, who will then forward the information to the FAA. It's up to the FAA whether or not they want to fine/prosecute the pax for it.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: moriarty
Posted 2013-04-22 06:14:49 and read 11023 times.

I was once (a couple of years ago) sitting in the row in front of a guy that tried to smoke on the toilet. Cannot remember the airline (ARN->LPA however), but I do remember this:

The guy was big, noisy and drunk and the flight attendant were quite small and looked like flight attendants do mostly: nice and polite. However, the scolding she performed was beyond impressive - I thought she was going to open up a door and throw the guy out at cruising altitude. He (the guy) shrunk half a meter at least, and I remember I promised myself never to get into an argument with a flight attendant, no matter how nice and/or timid they might look.

On a side note: He had numerous chances to behave before that, I even heard them offering him a nicotine patch. He still couldn't resist. I guess the failed attempt to smoke just was the final nail in the coffin.

Well, they informed him he was not welcome to fly with them again (this was a charter and we were heading towards the destination, not back home...). Think they mentioned fines as well.

Still, on the return leg, he was on the flight. Sober. And quiet like a mouse...

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-22 06:26:46 and read 10829 times.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 21):
Electronic cigarettes are prohibited, mainly due to the heating element (such things are not allowed).

I don't think this applies to European carriers. My sister regularly uses her electronic cigarette while flying and if I am not mistaken Ryanair sells them onboard.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: skiaplg
Posted 2013-04-22 07:15:16 and read 10110 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 23):

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 21):
Electronic cigarettes are prohibited, mainly due to the heating element (such things are not allowed).

I don't think this applies to European carriers. My sister regularly uses her electronic cigarette while flying and if I am not mistaken Ryanair sells them onboard.

It might be just certain carriers? I recently flew CFE-CDG AF operated by Régional, and they specifically mentioned that e-cigarettes were also not allowed

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: mcr
Posted 2013-04-22 07:28:17 and read 10438 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 23):
I don't think this applies to European carriers. My sister regularly uses her electronic cigarette while flying and if I am not mistaken Ryanair sells them onboard.

I flew with Virgin Atlantic last week, electronic cigarettes were specifically mentioned in the safety briefing as not permitted.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-04-22 07:38:14 and read 10257 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 2):
Not sure about other parts of the world.

Sure, mileage varies widely...

Ok, my experience last year on a TK flight IST-ADD. A Turkish man got into the lav and lit up (so not as blatant as the lady on the video, so he gets points for that  )
Coming out, a good part of the 738 aft stunk of cigarette smoke. One of the flight attendants came out of the galley and followed the man. They had a heated discussion; he was brought to the front of the plane and was talked to by the captain but that was the end of it.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2013-04-22 07:43:13 and read 10256 times.

Just like there are no universal regulations in lighting up in public, so too there are no universal regulations on smoking in flight.

This creates problems for the airlines. In some countries it is unlawful to smoke on any flight. Australia is an example and it doesn't matter where the flight originates: if it flies in Australian airspace, smoking is unlawful. But in other countries there is no similar ban.

As a consequence, many airlines have chosen to implement a no-smoking policy on all flights for the simple reason that the cabin staff can not be reasonably expected to know when an aircraft has passed from airspace of one country to another - they're too busy serving meals, clearing up after drunks, etc, to pay attention to whether at that precise moment they have crossed an invisible line.

However, it is universal that passengers must follow the lawful instructions of the crew. Reminding passengers that the airline has a no-smoking policy that the passengers agreed to when making a booking, or pointing out that smoking is not allowed in certain countries, can result in a passenger being arrested and charged. If an airline chooses to refuse an passenger on an onward connection or return flight that is their right as the passenger, by refusing to carry out a lawful instruction as outlined in the contract that was agreed to, has indicated that they don't care about the contract anyway.

[Edited 2013-04-22 07:46:51]

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Birdwatching
Posted 2013-04-22 08:19:23 and read 9548 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Cubana still allows smoking in-flight.

No they don't, neither on international nor on domestic. I flew with them last year and smoking was prohibited, and nobody smoked.

It's beyond me why people still smoke today when it's perfectly proven to be extremely dangerous to others, especially children. Plus it is super expensive. Luckily the number of smokers is declining and even for kids it isn't cool any more, smoking definitely has the image of low-life / loser / weak personality nowadays. I'm still hoping for the day this ugly selfish habit completely disappears.

Soren   

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: something
Posted 2013-04-22 08:51:32 and read 8943 times.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 27):
This creates problems for the airlines. In some countries it is unlawful to smoke on any flight. Australia is an example and it doesn't matter where the flight originates: if it flies in Australian airspace, smoking is unlawful. But in other countries there is no similar ban.

Without wanting to be pedantic but this is not exclusive to Australia. Article 1 of the ''Convention of International Civil Aviation'' states that

''Article - 1
Sovereignty
The contracting States recognize that every State has complete and exclusive sovereignty over the air- space above its territory. '' (http://www.icao.int/publications/Documents/7300_orig.pdf)


which distinguishes air travel from sea travel. Vessels are legally considered part of the territory of their home nation, a principle the German law calls ''Flaggenrechtsprinzip''. The ''Flaggenrechtsprinzip'' takes a backseat to the customary law but it can (and does) apply mutatis mutandis if the law of the home nation (''where the aircraft is registered'') does not in principle oppose the foreign law, ie. the sovereign laws of the airspace's nation. (§2 LuftVG; (2) Soweit ausländisches Recht in Übereinstimmung mit völkerrechtlichen Grundsätzen extraterritoriale Wirkung beansprucht und sich auf Gegenstände bezieht, die von den Vorschriften nach § 1 Abs. 1 geregelt sind oder in einer sonstigen Beziehung zur Luftfahrt stehen, findet es im Hoheitsgebiet der Bundesrepublik Deutschland nur insoweit Anwendung, als es deutschem Recht nicht entgegensteht.)

Criminal law also follows the law of the land in which an aircraft is present.

According to §4 StGB and §5 OWiG criminal acts can be prosecuted under German law if they have been committed on board of a German-registered aircraft outside of Germany's territory, however sovereign rights cannot be derived from these laws. For that reason the ''Tokyo Convention'' was signed in 1963 (http://www.mcgill.ca/files/iasl/tokyo1963.pdf) which guarantees sovereign power on board of aircraft outside one's own jurisdiction.

International law and conventions supersede all other laws.

In conclusion: Aircraft are subject to the jurisdiction of the airspace they are flying through, however if the law of the land they are registered in does not fundamentally oppose that of said airspace, it may apply alternatively.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2013-04-22 08:55:08 and read 8855 times.

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 7):
Second, what aircraft is this? The interior looks like it's an older model plane but MEA doesn't fly any planes that would fit that description.

It's an A320 (A321s don't have overwing window exits), and a rather newer one, judging by the paneling/PSU's (they're the updated style consistent with all A32x series built in 2008 and beyond). Perhaps it's just the lighting that gives it an 'older' look.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B737900
Posted 2013-04-22 09:33:11 and read 8081 times.

I think I can safely say that quite a few a.netters are too young to remember when smoking was allowed on US flights. I can sure remember it. Quite frankly, it was grotesque for a non-smoker. I flew almost exculsevly on Alaska Airlines then.
In the old days, smokers could sit any where, including in the cockpit!. Later, one could request non-smoking seats but that was really not any relieve. Some AS a/c still have ash trays but they are sealed shut.
The impetus to have non-smoking on domestic flights came largely from the flight attendants. Can you imagine flying five or six legs while continuously breathing cigarette smoke. It was a health hazard to say the least. Also, cigarette, cigar and pipe smoke played hell with the air conditioning.

[Edited 2013-04-22 09:34:51]

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: cjg225
Posted 2013-04-22 10:00:54 and read 7538 times.

This reminds me of when I was a kid. I was probably 4 and on a flight to LAX. I snitched on a guy who lit up in the lav and was holding his cigarette package like an idiot when he left. "Mr. Flight Attendant, that guy was smoking in the bathroom!"

One of my fond memories from being a kid on an airplane. lol

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-04-22 10:34:36 and read 6938 times.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 28):
No they don't, neither on international nor on domestic. I flew with them last year and smoking was prohibited, and nobody smoked.


That must be a new thing. I remember people smoking on my IL-62 flight to Havana.
In fact I met some British guys in Havana that specifically chose to fly Cubana just so they could smoke in-flight across the Atlantic.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 28):
It's beyond me why people still smoke today when it's perfectly proven to be extremely dangerous to others, especially children. Plus it is super expensive.



Not only that, it STINKS!   
That is my main reason I hate cigarettes.
It's one habit I never understood.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 28):
Luckily the number of smokers is declining


No it's not. Sadly it's on the rise here in Asia.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-04-22 11:46:16 and read 5789 times.

Why would anyone smoke on an aircraft? That is just rude. It is a confined space.

And what is the rule on electric cigarettes. The reason I ask is someone was smoking one not even a yard from us yesterday. Only my older daughter, who has an amazing sense of smell, didn't like it. I only noticed the electric cigarette as she was complaining about the stink and I have a far above average sense of smell for my age. But I have aged...   

Quoting JU068 (Reply 1):
Quoting RJA321 (Thread starter):
Will the smoke emitted from the cigarette pose any immediate threat to the aircraft/passengers?

Erm... of course not.

I've known two kids with asthma where it would. Thankfully, one outgrew the issue.

Quoting B737900 (Reply 31):

I think I can safely say that quite a few a.netters are too young to remember when smoking was allowed on US flights. I can sure remember it. Quite frankly, it was grotesque for a non-smoker.

I remember the wall of smoke at the back of DL's L1011s.   

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
Not only that, it STINKS!   
That is my main reason I hate cigarettes.
It's one habit I never understood.

Smokers need to realize a non-smoker has 4X better smell. One thing smoking destroys (quickly) is the sense of smell (and a bit of taste too). So smokers are not able to understand why the smell bothers non-smokers so much due to their olfactory damage.

Because of the impact on taste, as soon as a few restaurants started being 'smoke free' (late 1980s), I would try anything I could to divert whom I was eating with to those restaurants. If someone was so hooked they needed their fix, they went outside. When California went smoke free in workplaces, including bars and restaurants, it wasn a NICE change.   

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-04-22 12:57:27 and read 4776 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Why would anyone smoke on an aircraft? That is just rude. It is a confined space.

It's a confined space yes, but like an earlier poster I too remember the days when it was common. Unlike him, though, my memory of it is that it really wasn't that bad. Obviously if you were a flight attendant and had to be exposed directly to smoking passengers on a constant basis, then yes it was bad and that's why it was outlawed in the US. But for those of us sitting back in the non-smoking section, I really don't remember smelling much smoke, if any. I think some people overdramatize the way it used to be. Remember, airliners are constantly circulating air. Unless you were up near the front of a non-smoking section (which could literally be directly behind a smoker - there often was no real divider or bulkhead), I don't see how you could really smell it, because that air would be changed by the time it drifted back to you. It's like saying you can smell a person farting from 20 rows away today - that's impossible. That gas never makes it back to where you are.

Certainly, you could smell it if you decided to take a walk up into the smoking cabin. And if you bent down and smelled the ashtray at the seat of an older airplane that used to be 100% smoking, then yes, it smelled like an ashtray. But if you were just sitting in your seat in the non-smoking section, I just don't remember it smelling like anything.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
And what is the rule on electric cigarettes. The reason I ask is someone was smoking one not even a yard from us yesterday. Only my older daughter, who has an amazing sense of smell, didn't like it.

E-cigs are not allowed on US flights - I suppose other places could be different. I don't actually see how a person can't smell these - to me they stink just like any other cigarette. Again, if a person's 20 rows ahead of me I am sure I'm not going to smell it. But if someone's right next to me? It smells just like a regular cigarette. I hope they keep these prohibited, if they're going to keep cigarettes in general prohibited - there's no difference as far as I'm concerned, from the perspective of another passenger. And now that there's no such thing as a "no smoking" section, it would be impossible to get away from them if they were ever allowed.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: 4tet
Posted 2013-04-22 13:09:23 and read 4676 times.

2 years ago I had a chance to smoke a cigar in a friend's GIV along with some rum on the rocks... Not joking!

I was astonished when the captain turned off the smoke prohibition, and he started a cigar...    You could imagine my face when I saw that, as I'm used to fly commercial and smoking in-flight is (was) something unimaginable for me...

Seems that this was something normal for them though

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-04-22 13:21:51 and read 4597 times.

Quoting 4tet (Reply 36):
I was astonished when the captain turned off the smoke prohibition, and he started a cigar...

and he got a triple shot of Mount Gay Rum...

NO, I just made it up, but I thought that is where you were going. Glad it wasn't  

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B737900
Posted 2013-04-22 13:39:13 and read 4558 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 35):
I think some people overdramatize the way it used to be. Remember, airliners are constantly circulating air. Unless you were up near the front of a non-smoking section (which could literally be directly behind a smoker - there often was no real divider or bulkhead), I don't see how you could really smell it, because that air would be changed by the time it drifted back to you. It's like saying you can smell a person farting from 20 rows away today - that's impossible. That gas never makes it back to where you are.

I'm sorry spacecadet, what you said is simply not true. The smoking/non-smoking separation was a joke. Of course you could smell it; your clothes were saturated with the smoke. And remember, the air you breathe in an a/c is circulated through filters. I have seen those filters from a "smoking allowed" a/c and they are filthy.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-04-22 14:54:50 and read 4362 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 35):

You're wrong ya know!!!!

Airlines with different cabin classes often had non smoking cabins smack bang in the middle of two smoking sections. Not to mention that a large number of aircraft have air conditioning processes that pump the air forward such as the A330/340. I remember EI when they first recieved their a330s back in 1994 and they had smoking cabins!!!! Business class was rows 1-4 with 4 being the smoking row.......,I can assure you those in row one new all about it!!!!

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B4REAL
Posted 2013-04-22 15:02:05 and read 4364 times.

I was on an aircraft in 2012 - DTW-AMS I believe on DL - and someone smoked in the bathroom. They were quick and not directly caught but the cabin crew tried to find them but was not successful.

As far as US-based aircraft, I believe all, even the new ones, have an ash tray - especially up front or near lavs - for the aforementioned approved disposal technique if one comes in.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-04-22 18:28:43 and read 4020 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Why would anyone smoke on an aircraft? That is just rude. It is a confined space.

s
Agreed. Something I never understood as a kid. Especially since we had to dress up and look fancy wearing our Sunday's best only to be in a smelling cigarette infested airplane cabin.
At least we were on 707s and 727s so I guess that made up for the cigarette smoke.  
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
I remember the wall of smoke at the back of DL's L1011s.

Me too. Not fun at all.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Smokers need to realize a non-smoker has 4X better smell. One thing smoking destroys (quickly) is the sense of smell (and a bit of taste too). So smokers are not able to understand why the smell bothers non-smokers so much due to their olfactory damage.

I didn't realize that but that sounds about right. Many women chose to smoke to suppress their appetite because they're so afraid they may get fat. Sounds crazy!   

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Because of the impact on taste, as soon as a few restaurants started being 'smoke free' (late 1980s), I would try anything I could to divert whom I was eating with to those restaurants. If someone was so hooked they needed their fix, they went outside. When California went smoke free in workplaces, including bars and restaurants, it wasn a NICE change.  

I enjoyed kicking out smokers when I worked at the Hard Rock Cafe in San Francisco back in 1996.  
The ones that had the biggest problem with it was tourist visiting from Europe.
Some smokers, particularly co-workers look so pathetic when it's raining and they'll crowd underneath a small awning shivering, trying to keep dry while they smoke their cancer sticks.

Despite my hatred of cigarette smoke, I don't have a problem with the smell of marijuana.
Perhaps Air Jamaica would have been more successful if they offered weed in-flight. It's a natural scent unlike the processed chemical laced manufactured cigarettes that has a hint of a sewer smell when smoked.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-04-22 18:52:11 and read 3972 times.

10 years ago (April 2003) I had two flights within almost as many weeks when someone had been smoking in the lavatory. In both cases there was an announcement to the effect of "don't do it again". What was bizarre about these two events at almost the same time, is that - as far as I'm aware - it's never happened on a flight I was on before or since!


Three weeks ago I was talking to a QF FA while flying CBR-BNE. She listed this as one of the reasons she was glad that she worked short domestic hops rather than long treks up to LAX etc. as most people can go an hour-and-a-half without succumbing to the cravings. (Incidentally two others she mentioned were: people who enjoyed the free alcohol a bit more than was advisable, and couples that can't keep their hands off each other for 14 hours!)

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-04-22 18:54:51 and read 3953 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 42):
and couples that can't keep their hands off each other for 14 hours!)

There's no harm in that.  

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-04-22 19:39:52 and read 3885 times.

Must admit, in the last 5 years I think Iv encountered it 3 times in totes and that's all Longhaul. I can actually remember the routes.....LON-SIN, LON-HKG and MRU-LON
Think it's becoming more and more rare.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: aklrno
Posted 2013-04-22 22:35:39 and read 3726 times.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 39):
Airlines with different cabin classes often had non smoking cabins smack bang in the middle of two smoking sections. Not to mention that a large number of aircraft have air conditioning processes that pump the air forward such as the A330/340. I remember EI when they first recieved their a330s back in 1994 and they had smoking cabins!!!! Business class was rows 1-4 with 4 being the smoking row.......,I can assure you those in row one new all about it!!!!

I remember the bad old days before the complete smoking ban. The airlines thought they were doing you a big favor by having a non-smoking section. It didn't work well.

First, each class had its own smoking section. That often left you sandwiched between smokers. Some airlines managed to make it worse. One that I was on (I think it was JAL) divided the cabin lengthwise. One side of the aisle smoked, the other didn't. The reasoning was that the airflow kept them separated. It didn't.

For a while Alitalia decided that forcing smokers into the back of the (air)bus was unfair, so their A300 (maybe A310) had alternating patches of 6 rows smoking/nonsmoking. No one was ever more than 3 rows from a smoker, most were closer.

The worst version I ever had was on Lufthansa. Some kind soul in the company travel office had bought me a business or first class ticket on a flight about 3 hours long. At check-in I asked for no smoking, and was duly assigned to the no smoking section. Shortly after takeoff, everyone around me started smoking. I pushed the attendant call button and asked what had happened to my no smoking seat. She told me that the no smoking section was adjusted in size to accommodate non-smokers. Since I was the only non-smoker on the flight, my seat WAS the non smoking section. Apparently everyone around me could smoke, but if I wanted to participate directly instead of indirectly, I couldn't.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: mcr
Posted 2013-04-23 02:09:10 and read 3545 times.

I forget where I first heard this, but...

"Having a no-smoking section on an aircraft makes about as much sense as having a no-peeing area in a swimming pool."

 

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: gr8circle
Posted 2013-04-23 04:51:03 and read 3400 times.

I read the last few posts criticising the policies of various airlines back in the day......I would say the airlines were just doing their best to accommodate the requirements of the smoking community, comprising of people who just can't take a few normal breaths without having a puff in between......it must have been very difficult for the airlines.....whatever layout you introduce in the cabins, some non-smoker was bound to have to put up with the smoke emitted by the smokers nearby, in spite of sitting in a so-called "non-smoking zone"....

So I'd say, don't blame the airlines, blame the smokers.....I know I'll get flamed for this, but truth is the truth....

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-04-23 07:57:26 and read 3227 times.

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 47):
I read the last few posts criticising the policies of various airlines back in the day......I would say the airlines were just doing their best to accommodate the requirements of the smoking community, comprising of people who just can't take a few normal breaths without having a puff in between......it must have been very difficult for the airlines.....whatever layout you introduce in the cabins, some non-smoker was bound to have to put up with the smoke emitted by the smokers nearby, in spite of sitting in a so-called "non-smoking zone"....

So I'd say, don't blame the airlines, blame the smokers.....I know I'll get flamed for this, but truth is the truth....




I agree with you. Years have gone by now and many have forgot how smoking was commonplace back then. Smoking had been glamorized in the previous generations and many were already hooked. I'm sure non-smokers felt marginalized from time to time back then.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-04-23 09:25:42 and read 3136 times.

Quoting B737900 (Reply 38):
I'm sorry spacecadet, what you said is simply not true.

Why do people express opinions here this way? What I said is just as "true" as what you say. You're remembering it differently, that's all.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 39):
Airlines with different cabin classes often had non smoking cabins smack bang in the middle of two smoking sections.

I flew several times per year in the 1970's and I never saw this once.

(Note that I did not say "this is simply not true." But this was not my experience.)

[Edited 2013-04-23 09:29:48]

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-04-23 10:30:42 and read 3048 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 49):

Care to tell us how they did have it then????? And which carriers back in the 70s did you fly with so we may dispute or discuss further!

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B737900
Posted 2013-04-23 11:36:17 and read 2975 times.

My experience was almost exclusively with Alaska Airlines way back then. The only bulkhead AS had on their 737's was/is between F and Y class. Back in the mid-70's there was no bulkhead between smoking and non-smoking. It was just tough luck if you were sitting in the row just in front or in back of the smoking section. But the reality was that you could not separate smokers from non-smokers. When you smoked on an airplane at 30,000 ft, everyone got a dose of smoke.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: B727FA
Posted 2013-04-23 11:40:59 and read 2930 times.

qqflyboy, That may be the case or policy at your airline, but there is no "automatic" rule imposed by the FAA on this.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-04-23 13:02:14 and read 2799 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 2):
Only difference is now there aren't any ash trays
Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 42):
and couples that can't keep their hands off each other for 14 hours!)

There's no harm in that.

Might be a bit bothersome for the guy in the middle seat.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: vfw614
Posted 2013-04-23 13:24:59 and read 2749 times.

I can tell you that one of the most vivid memories my wife has about air travel is that her father turned loose hell and earth when he found out that his three young children were assigned seats in the last row of the non-smoking section, with dozens of smokers lined up behind his children on a five hour flight.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2013-04-23 14:36:06 and read 2636 times.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):

Actually some of our 717's have an ashtray built into the outside of the lav doors.

Topic: RE: Passenger Smoking During Flight
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-04-23 19:25:51 and read 2458 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 53):
Might be a bit bothersome for the guy in the middle seat.

Not a problem if he's asked to join.  
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 54):
I can tell you that one of the most vivid memories my wife has about air travel is that her father turned loose hell and earth when he found out that his three young children were assigned seats in the last row of the non-smoking section, with dozens of smokers lined up behind his children on a five hour flight.

I never understood the logic used when smoking and non-smoking sections were assigned at restaurants, hotels and airplanes. Often times, the entire place was a smoking section just because the awful stench of cigarette smoke travels.


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