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Topic: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2013-04-21 23:40:27 and read 15316 times.

Starting September 2014, AIR FRANCE is planning to upgrade its Daily CDG-ABJ-CDG to an A380 (currently B77W).

AF is posting a record of PAX carried on the route with more than 186 000 PAX in 2012.
To face the nonstop growing raffic, Air France has added this summer 3 x Weekly flights with an A343 to the already Daily B77W flight.

With The A380, starting September 2014, the number of frequencies will return to 1 x Daily.

source : http://economie.jeuneafrique.com/reg...-france-fait-debarquer-l-a380.html

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-04-21 23:44:02 and read 15312 times.

Wow. That's impressive.

Who is AF's competition on the route (if any)?

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-04-21 23:46:38 and read 15284 times.

I'm wondering how A380 capable ABJ is currently? Maybe that is why AF is waiting until 2014 to upgauge this route?

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: swallow
Posted 2013-04-21 23:48:35 and read 15255 times.

This will make ABJ the second African airport to receive A380 service, after JNB.

Are any mods required, or will pax deplane via the existing jetways?

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2013-04-21 23:49:41 and read 15253 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
I'm wondering how A380 capable ABJ is currently? Maybe that is why AF is waiting until 2014 to upgauge this route?

ABJ is not yet A380 capable. Some work should start soon to uprgrade the infracstucture of the Airport.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-04-21 23:54:00 and read 15214 times.

Surprising A380 destination. Not even EK sends an A380 there    (77W as a tag-on from ACC).

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-22 00:07:07 and read 15079 times.

Great and surprising news. Even if the article mentions the return to daily flights it does not say if the A380 will operate daily. It could be used on a few weekly flights while the remaining days it would be a B777.

Ivory Coast has been doing really well lately. In 2010 they recorded a 3% growth and then in 2011 they were in recession (-4.7%) while last year they recorded spectacular growth of 9.8% with inflation rates kept low at 1.3%! I am sure that Air France gets a good share of transit passengers.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: AF185
Posted 2013-04-22 00:08:26 and read 15068 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
Not even EK sends an A380 there

AF/KL (including KQ) have a much stronger network in Africa than EK.
AF-KL serve 42 destinations in Africa, compared to 22 for EK.

I am not surprised to see the A380 in ABJ. This is a nice reward for Africa, being the best performing region for AF/KL.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2013-04-22 01:30:44 and read 14724 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 6):
Even if the article mentions the return to daily flights it does not say if the A380 will operate daily. It could be used on a few weekly flights while the remaining days it would be a B777.

It will be a DAILY A380. To keep the same cacapicity of today with a 77W + 3 x Weekly A343

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-22 01:33:40 and read 14711 times.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 8):

Thanks, will it be the 9/80/449 configuration?

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: 744FOREVER
Posted 2013-04-22 02:09:46 and read 14503 times.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 1):
Who is AF's competition on the route (if any)?

Corsair International (SS) started 3 weekly ORY-ABJ last March 1st using 333 equipment.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-04-22 02:32:06 and read 14352 times.

Strangely this news was announced only by the AF local manager in ABJ during an itw. It is pretty unusual as generally the new A380 destinations are announced by the PR department or AF CEO, like Sao Paulo, also due to be operated by A380 in 2014. I am not saying ABJ will not be served by the A380 but surely AF is cautious with this info as ABJ might not be ready in due course.
AF announced last week the increase in seat capacity to ABJ but no mention of the A380: http://corporate.airfrance.com/filea..._Africa_an_even_denser_network.pdf



Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 1):
Who is AF's competition on the route (if any)?

Corsair has just started a 3 weekly flight from ORY to ABJ (by A333).



Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
Surprising A380 destination

Again, let's be wary with this info as it is not "official". But in fact, Abidjan is the second largest french-speaking metropolis in the world. There are very strong economic, politic and cultural ties between France and the Ivory Coast, a lot of expats on both sides, etc. Western Africa is AF territory and their bread and butter...

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2013-04-22 05:28:43 and read 13796 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 9):
Thanks, will it be the 9/80/449 configuration?

This configuration doesn't exist.

The 8 A380 operated by AF are all configured with 9P / 80J / 38W / 339Y

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: miami
Posted 2013-04-22 06:10:20 and read 13587 times.

Now if AF will just send the A380 to MIA, that'd be great.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: AF022
Posted 2013-04-22 06:44:14 and read 13392 times.

This is impressive, really.
Is most CDG-ABJ traffic local, or is there a lot of feed at CDG? Where are all those passengers going?

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: A388
Posted 2013-04-22 07:18:11 and read 13255 times.

According to Google Earth, ABJ only has 4 jetways to accomodate narrowbody aircraft such as the A320 and their runway is only about 3000 meters long. The ramp also looks very narrow to handle widebody aircraft. Based on the images I see a widebody aircraft can barely be pushed back from a gate. Are these images on Google Earth out of date? If not, then ABJ has a lot of work to do if it wants to accomodate/handle the A380!!!

A388

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: boeingrulz
Posted 2013-04-22 08:24:31 and read 12332 times.

Google Earth shows the date of the imagery. It shows 14 Mar. 2013.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-04-22 09:40:35 and read 11077 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 15):
According to Google Earth, ABJ only has 4 jetways to accomodate narrowbody aircraft such as the A320 and their runway is only about 3000 meters long. The ramp also looks very narrow to handle widebody aircraft. Based on the images I see a widebody aircraft can barely be pushed back from a gate. Are these images on Google Earth out of date? If not, then ABJ has a lot of work to do if it wants to accomodate/handle the A380!!!

I wouldn't worry about the runway length as the 380 doesn't require any more than other aircraft, but the ramp does look small in the google maps view. Though there is a pic of a Cargolux 747-800 in the photo DB so there must be large widebody stands available somewhere.

I suppose they could just remote park it and use mobile steps to avoid having to put in expensive things like airbridges and the like.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-04-22 10:05:27 and read 10701 times.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Starting September 2014, AIR FRANCE is planning to upgrade its Daily CDG-ABJ-CDG to an A380 (currently B77W).

Excellent news! I remember I flew CDG-ABJ in summer of 1996 and it was an A310-300 if I am not mistaken. How things change!

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
Surprising A380 destination. Not even EK sends an A380 there

As Azure mentioned, there are very strong links between Côte d'Ivoire and France. If the political and social situation in Côte d'Ivoire has stabilized and the economy is growing (as others have indicated), then it makes sense. Congratulations to ABJ and AF!

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: TheAviator380
Posted 2013-04-22 12:00:23 and read 9117 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):

Won't be long EK will send A380 to half of their destination...

Well done AF.
   

[Edited 2013-04-22 12:01:10]

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-04-22 12:16:20 and read 8897 times.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 14):


This is impressive, really.
Is most CDG-ABJ traffic local, or is there a lot of feed at CDG? Where are all those passengers going?

Impressive, but how many nations have a national language of French and have the name of the country officially being in French. I assume it local and business traffic from the strong ties between France and the Ivory Coast.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: tolmachevo
Posted 2013-04-22 12:37:18 and read 8641 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 20):
but how many nations have a national language of French

29

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-04-22 12:59:08 and read 8368 times.

CDG-ABJ according to the stats I have from Sheppherd system show that 114,000 pax in 2012 flew point to point (no transit involved) between these two cities and not 186,000 as mentioned in the article itself.

Regardless its still a high volume market but wouldnt a high density 10 weekly B77W be better than a premium heavy A380?

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-04-22 13:12:56 and read 8160 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 22):
Regardless its still a high volume market but wouldnt a high density 10 weekly B77W be better than a premium heavy A380?

Some of the African markets tend to be heavy in business class and thin in economy. It's not a tourist destination, so either it is business traffic based which justifies the A380, or ethnic family based which would justify a high density 77W. Ivory Coast has strong exports (4th largest exporter in Sub-Sahara Africa).

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-04-22 13:22:16 and read 8017 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 23):
It's not a tourist destination, so either it is business traffic based which justifies the A380, or ethnic family based which would justify a high density 77W. Ivory Coast has strong exports (4th largest exporter in Sub-Sahara Africa).

Yup. Whenever you eat pineapples or cocoa-based products such as chocolates in France, Belgium, Italy, etc., there is a very large probability that the pineapples or the cocoa came from Côte d'Ivoire.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: airproxx
Posted 2013-04-22 13:31:19 and read 8237 times.

If the A380 is due to be sent to ABJ, I wonder if AF is considering sending it also to LBV.... The market seems to be in a constant growth for these past few years, and I wouldn't be surprised if this destination would see the same upgrade soon...

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Jalap
Posted 2013-04-22 14:38:55 and read 7498 times.

And this while only 2 European airlines serve the airport. SN also has a daily A330, though not non-stop. This market must be very hard to penetrate, but once you're in it seems to be a very lucrative one.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-22 15:58:32 and read 6844 times.

Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
Abidjan is the second largest french-speaking metropolis in the world.

Isn't Montreal (metropolitan area) slightly larger than ABJ?

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: TurkishWings
Posted 2013-04-22 16:38:59 and read 6531 times.

Quoting Jalap (Reply 26):

And this while only 2 European airlines serve the airport. SN also has a daily A330, though not non-stop. This market must be very hard to penetrate, but once you're in it seems to be a very lucrative one.

Turkish Airlines also serve Abidjan...

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2013-04-22 21:57:27 and read 4972 times.

Quoting airproxx (Reply 25):
If the A380 is due to be sent to ABJ, I wonder if AF is considering sending it also to LBV....

Air France has just upgraded CDG-LBV from 5 x Weekly to a DAILY flight nonstop flight with a B77W and is still waiting for the traffic rights to open CDG-POG (Port-Gentil).

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-04-22 22:40:08 and read 4718 times.

There's a large O&D market between the two places for sure, although I wonder how much of the front end will be filled, especially since the A380 tends to have a slightly larger proportion of premuim seats, if I'm not mistaken.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2013-04-23 01:06:06 and read 4263 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 30):
I wonder how much of the front end will be filled, especially since the A380 tends to have a slightly larger proportion of premuim seats, if I'm not mistaken.

Not really ... :

Currently AF flies a daily B77W + 3 x Weekly A343 to ABJ which means an offer of 559 Business Class seats per week (67 x 7 = 469, + 30 x 3 = 30).
With the A380, it will be 80 x 7 = 560 Business Class seats offered ....

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-04-23 01:45:44 and read 4188 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):
Isn't Montreal (metropolitan area) slightly larger than ABJ?

Montreal population (2011) : 3,8 m
Abidjan population : 4 m (source : http://districtabidjan.org/)

Furthermore you are probably aware that not everyone in Montreal is french-speaking...



Quoting Jalap (Reply 26):
This market must be very hard to penetrate

It is. "The Minister of Transportation has been contacted by Corsair to complain about some flight schedules by Air France, which coincide with theirs, and asked for a redevelopment. The second complain relates to catering costs for Corsair which are higher than those of Air France, " per an article in Jeune Afrique magazine.
To my knowledge, the Ivoirian authority has declined Corsair's complain on flight schedules.
As for the catering, as AF flies 3 times more passengers than Corsair, we can already anticipate the answer...
AF strategy is clear : if they are to send an A380 to ABJ, it is to suck all traffic to Europe and weaken competition (just like EK in Europe).

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: AirGabon
Posted 2013-04-23 01:50:48 and read 4176 times.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 28):
Turkish Airlines also serve Abidjan...

Yes TK flies 4 weekly to ABJ.

Also to ABJ EK has a daily 777, SN a daily A330, ME 3 A330 per week (around 75,000 Lebanese are living in Ivory Coast), AT daily flight, MS is flying back daily + many flights per week by ET, SA, KQ, AH, TU etc.

It seems that business is back in Ivory Coast which is a very good news.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: AAexecplat
Posted 2013-04-23 04:09:57 and read 4014 times.

Uhm...Abuja is in Nigeria...not in Cote d'Ivoire...

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 20):
Impressive, but how many nations have a national language of French and have the name of the country officially being in French. I assume it local and business traffic from the strong ties between France and the Ivory Coast.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2013-04-23 04:40:17 and read 3957 times.

Quoting AAexecplat (Reply 34):
Uhm...Abuja is in Nigeria...not in Cote d'Ivoire...

Correct ... but ABJ = ABIDJAN / IVORY COAST.

ABV = ABUJA / NIGERIA

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-04-23 06:07:38 and read 3796 times.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 35):
ABV = ABUJA / NIGERIA

Which is btw served daily by AF  

I am sure some people in this forum have never heard of Abidjan before...  

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: AAexecplat
Posted 2013-04-23 06:42:47 and read 3734 times.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 35):
Quoting AAexecplat (Reply 34):
Uhm...Abuja is in Nigeria...not in Cote d'Ivoire...

Correct ... but ABJ = ABIDJAN / IVORY COAST.

ABV = ABUJA / NIGERIA


Thanks for setting me straight.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Jalap
Posted 2013-04-23 09:00:36 and read 3597 times.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 28):
Turkish Airlines also serve Abidjan...

Ah, they're not listed on the Abidjan airport website, then again the look and feel of that website didn't get me very confident about the accuracy of the information  

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: TS-IOR
Posted 2013-04-23 09:57:54 and read 3511 times.

Maybe the Ivorians will ask Air France to participate financially in the works that should be done in ABJ...

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-04-24 02:33:32 and read 3131 times.

Quoting Azure (Reply 36):
I am sure some people in this forum have never heard of Abidjan before

Agreed, I often assume other people know what I'm talking about. It's amazing even the well heeled person I meet, rarely knows where Rhodesia is, which is my family home.

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 39):
Maybe the Ivorians will ask Air France to participate financially in the works that should be done in ABJ...

It's got to come from somewhere. I assume AF will be able to obtain favors in return, for upgrading them to the next century.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-04-24 09:52:53 and read 2888 times.

Good move by AF which clearly has a competitive advantage that is not going to be easy to match.
As mentioned, Abidjan is an important center of Francophone west Africa (along with Dakar), has an economy that is strong, export oriented for decades, has a growing middle class and a large Sahelian population that does business there, etc.

Quoting Azure (Reply 32):
AF strategy is clear : if they are to send an A380 to ABJ, it is to suck all traffic to Europe and weaken competition (just like EK in Europe).

Agreed. Their way of saying to all others: now match this! knowing no one else can.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 40):
arely knows where Rhodesia is, which is my family home.

Yes, it is now called Zimbabwe. They should also rename Lake Victoria to an African name, but that is just me.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 22):

CDG-ABJ according to the stats I have from Sheppherd system show that 114,000 pax in 2012 flew point to point (no transit involved) between these two cities and not 186,000 as mentioned in the article itself.

And perhaps growing still. Looking at other one-stop options for Europe-ABJ, we have:
Air Algerie via ALG
Royal Air Maroc via CMN
Tunisair via TUN

With a bit of a diversion,
Brussels via BRU (and COO on certain days)
Turkish via IST
Egyptair via CAI
MEA via BEY

This is on top of the other direct service from Corsair in ORY. So all in all, many options for ABJ-Europe. Looks like AF really intends on dominating this route. They also are investors in the local Air Côte d'Ivoire which could become a feeder.

Quoting AF185 (Reply 7):
AF/KL (including KQ) have a much stronger network in Africa than EK.

Sure, with KQ included, that is true. However, I think each (AF and EK) focus is different: AF on the north-south, mostly VFR and business traffic. EK on the east-west, mostly traders traffic. The pie is growing so each can still grow. Going to Europe from West Africa via DXB is a bit of a diversion but some still do it due to better fares.

Topic: RE: AF To Use The A380 On CDG-ABJ
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-04-24 10:51:34 and read 2795 times.

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 39):
Maybe the Ivorians will ask Air France to participate financially in the works that should be done in ABJ...

Based on what I have already read on the Ivoirian forums, it already happened. But AF will participate through the airport taxes to be paied anyway , and I expect these to be higher for an A380 than for a smaller aircraft.


Quoting RWA380 (Reply 40):
even the well heeled person I meet, rarely knows where Rhodesia is, which is my family home.

Well, as ETinCaribe righfully noted, Rhodesia is the former name of Zimbabwe, so the youngest generation might not be quite aware. How about Dahomey and Haute Volta ?!
Yet, I am not sure many could locate Zimbabwe on a world map... It is sad, because history and geography help to understand / be critic with the constant flow of information we receive everyday. Even in the world of aviation  



Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 41):
Egyptair via CAI

Egyptair is indeed due to resume its service from Cairo via Accra on July 1st.

The Accra - Abidjan route seems to be quite busy... Does anyone know why ABJ is often a tag on ACC ? Does it have anything to do with fuel costs for instance ?


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