Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5746688/

Topic: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-04-24 16:41:20 and read 6890 times.

Once again, the Localizer to 22L is out of service. With fog off the water and southerly winds, the VOR 22L will not cut it.

All traffic being thrown to ILS 13L.

Couple with ATC issues, major delays and mounting cancellations at JFK this evening.

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-04-24 16:53:59 and read 6832 times.

When it rains, it pours.

Good thing our flight shows up nice and early and leaves nice and early!

[Edited 2013-04-24 16:55:19]

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-04-24 17:01:16 and read 6777 times.

Thats an ugly configuration. Good luck to anyone going through NYC tonight

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: dolinja777
Posted 2013-04-24 17:03:21 and read 6764 times.

Ah... I live in Brooklyn Heights and there's been lots of abnormal low flying traffic around. I noticed Air France and Fedex and figured that wasn't something going into LGA!

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-04-24 17:18:27 and read 6665 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 2):
Thats an ugly configuration. Good luck to anyone going through NYC tonight

My dad's friend is sitting at LGA right now not knowing when his NK flight to MYR is going to leave (BTW he shoudl already be in MYR).

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2013-04-24 17:25:24 and read 6620 times.

Well, this should make for an interesting night at JFK, good thing I get off at 9pm LOL. Is this causing an impact at EWR/LGA as well? I know when they use ILS 13L at JFK, the aircraft are pretty much going all the way to the tip of Manhattan before turning final. Taking a look at the online tracking for JFK, it looks like it would be quite the beautiful approach if it were nice outside....going over the Verrazano, clipping the tip of Manhattan, etc.

http://www4.passur.com/jfk.html

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-04-24 18:58:53 and read 6309 times.

Anyone know if they are still landing that way? Metar shows 4R RVR so I am thinking not.

But 180/15 means a good tail wind for 4R

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-04-24 19:09:27 and read 6263 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Anyone know if they are still landing that way? Metar shows 4R RVR so I am thinking not.

But 180/15 means a good tail wind for 4R

Flightaware still shows aircraft on vectors for 13L

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KJFK

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: planesarecool
Posted 2013-04-24 20:00:49 and read 6081 times.

I understand enough about JFK to realise that a 13L ILS is abnormal, I know it affects normal operations at LGA, EWR and TEB. But if they still have two runways in use, one for arrivals and one for departures, why does this cause delays at JFK (more so than usual)?

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-04-24 20:23:30 and read 6006 times.

The sharp turn to final and the lack of space to manuever aircraft around the final approach area.

Main problem though is that is messes with LGA and EWR and shuts down TEB

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2013-04-24 21:41:43 and read 5840 times.

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 8):
I understand enough about JFK to realise that a 13L ILS is abnormal, I know it affects normal operations at LGA, EWR and TEB. But if they still have two runways in use, one for arrivals and one for departures, why does this cause delays at JFK (more so than usual)?

Normally JFK uses 2 runways for arrivals and 1 for departures during the arrival bank and then 1 runway for arrivals and 2 for departures during the departure banks with scattered arrivals on one of the departure runways when flow requires. Even when using the 13's 22L will usually be used for arrivals in addition to 13L.

As of 0037lcl the runway config has switched to the 22s.

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: metsfan1
Posted 2013-04-25 06:33:26 and read 4607 times.

Well from my area (Riverdale/Yonkers) area I could see LGA arrivals going straight out over the Hudson from East to West then making a left over NJ before making another left just south of the George Washington Bridge and landing on runway 13.

I have lived in that area 7 years and have only seen something akin to this landing config maybe 5-6 times. I am sure it happens in bad weather but then the cloud base is so low I can't actually see the airplanes coming in. Was definately interesting.

The strangest I've ever seen was aircraft coming straight down the hudson at about 2000-3000 feet on a clear day (some already gear down) and then making a hard left right around the George Washington Bridge and going into 13 at LGA.

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: corinthians
Posted 2013-04-25 07:05:06 and read 4414 times.

Quoting metsfan1 (Reply 11):
The strangest I've ever seen was aircraft coming straight down the hudson at about 2000-3000 feet on a clear day (some already gear down) and then making a hard left right around the George Washington Bridge and going into 13 at LGA.

That’s the River Visual approach. I remember they used that a lot on the weekends about ten years ago when Runway 4/22 was closed for maintenance. I haven’t seen them use it for a long, long time.

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: ANITIX87
Posted 2013-04-25 10:21:23 and read 3279 times.

Quoting corinthians (Reply 12):
That’s the River Visual approach. I remember they used that a lot on the weekends about ten years ago when Runway 4/22 was closed for maintenance. I haven’t seen them use it for a long, long time.

The River Visual is used all the time (and is a route up the Hudson with a right to 13). What MetsFan1 mentioned was planes coming down the Hudson (not up) and turning left into Runway 13. I've never seen this in 22 years in the NYC area.

TIS

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-04-25 13:27:46 and read 2492 times.

On a quiet Saturday, they can make a left to final.

Yesterday was unique.

Because JFK is by the water, it had foggy conditions with somewhat lower ceilings and a south wind 180/15. This would call for ILS 22L. Because, ILS 22L was OTS, they had to throw it to ILS 13L.

Ironically, ceilings were rather high elsewhere so we got to see a good show.

This setup usually only happens in very bad weather with the crosswind component being exceeded on 22L. Maybe 2 to 3 times a year.

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: N353SK
Posted 2013-04-25 14:44:46 and read 2176 times.

This is a rumor that I can't substantiate, but apparently the only person at JFK qualified to fix the localizer was out on a furlough day.

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-25 14:48:13 and read 2155 times.

Quoting N353SK (Reply 15):
This is a rumor that I can't substantiate, but apparently the only person at JFK qualified to fix the localizer was out on a furlough day.

 

Such equipment should be the responsibility of the airport, not FAA.

Here at LAX, LAWA handles all such airfield equipment. PANYNJ should do the same at JFK.

Only thing FAA does is calibrate and the required certification test.

Topic: RE: JFK: LOC 22L OTS, ILS 13L, Major Delays
Username: metsfan1
Posted 2013-04-25 15:53:15 and read 1905 times.

Just to confirm, yes the aircraft were flying from north to south on that one day. I had never seen it before and have never seen it since (I live on the river).

Come to think of it, it may have been during the U.S. Open this year but I really don't remember exactly when. All I know was that it was a perfectly clear day and I looked out my window and saw that. At first I thought maybe it was a one time thing such as a go-around. However it lasted about 2 hours with one after the other.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/