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Topic: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: TS-IOR
Posted 2013-04-25 05:34:58 and read 24459 times.

http://goo.gl/Jp9Tl

The news sounds surprising, but one would like seeing a B757 in EI colours and would also appreciate nice fares and a wider choice ! There will be three aircrafts and they will be based in SNN. Is the market in SNN catchment area is that significant ?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: peterinlisbon
Posted 2013-04-25 05:53:55 and read 24265 times.

What would be very interesting would be if they could operate the aircraft jointly with Jet Blue, providing low cost fares to Europe through it's network. I guess Shannon and Boston do not have large catchment areas in themselves, but it is one of the shortest (and therefore lowest cost) routes across the atlantic with good onward connections at each end. If they fill it with economy seats they could probably offer very competitive fares.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: TS-IOR
Posted 2013-04-25 05:59:09 and read 24168 times.

But does Jet Blue has rights regarding EU regulations to do so ?!

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-04-25 06:01:25 and read 24149 times.

Quoting TS-IOR (Thread starter):
The news sounds surprising, but one would like seeing a B757 in EI colours and would also appreciate nice fares and a wider choice ! There will be three aircrafts and they will be based in SNN. Is the market in SNN catchment area is that significant ?

Lots of discussion on the Irish threads about this in the last couple of months on this, but in short:
-This is a temporary lease arrangement until the A321NEO is available.
-757's will be former Finnair airframes.
-757's will be operated by Air Contractors.
-757's rumoured to be converted to freighters after the contract.
-Will be used on existing TA SNN flights where the A330 is a bit to big to sustain off season traffic.
-Also possibly used to open new new destinations from DUB where the A330 would be too large.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-04-25 07:49:26 and read 23410 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 3):

Does EI have A32xNEOs on order?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-04-25 07:53:39 and read 23362 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 3):
-757's will be operated by Air Contractors.
-757's rumoured to be converted to freighters after the contract.

Could make sense since Air Contractors is mainly or only (until now) a cargo operator flying on behalf of DHL.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-04-25 07:55:12 and read 23328 times.

Quoting TS-IOR (Thread starter):
The news sounds surprising, but one would like seeing a B757 in EI colours and would also appreciate nice fares and a wider choice

If they are replacing the A330s, fares will go up. If not, then the 757s will be for new service and that will help in those markets.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-04-25 08:04:15 and read 23168 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 4):

Does EI have A32xNEOs on order?

Not yet but that's the plan.
They are rumored to be one of the pioneers of NEO T/A ops for Airbus so you can be sure delivery slots will not be a problem.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-04-25 08:12:00 and read 23076 times.

I wonder why there is no DUB-FLL. There are no current flights Ireland - South Florida, and they could connect with Jetblue in FLL. It seems like a win-win for everybody.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: anfromme
Posted 2013-04-25 08:12:35 and read 23049 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 4):
Does EI have A32xNEOs on order?

No, so there's the assumption there that as an all-A32S operator, Aer Lingus will buy NEO as well.
I actually concur with that assumption.
As for replacing the 757 with MAX/NEO in general, it seems like a good strategy to basically test this size category of planes and appropriate routes first - at relatively small capital cost - and then buying A321NEO/737-9 once the basic route/size strategy has proven itself.

Getting back to EI and the A321NEO itself - besides EI being an all-Airbus shop at the moment (which with their relatively small fleet size I don't think they're going to change) it also seems that the A321NEO is more capable than the 737-9 on long thin routes. Especially when based at SNN, the A321NEO would surely be enough to cover thinner routes to the East Coast, with SNN far enough West already to make for a viable refill (and customs clearance) stop for BA's A318s.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-04-25 08:39:43 and read 22819 times.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 1):
guess Shannon and Boston do not have large catchment areas in themselves, but it is one of the shortest (and therefore lowest cost) routes across the atlantic with good onward connections at each end.

Boston's metro area is the 10th largest in the U.S. if I am not mistaken. I am not sure whether there are many flights ex-BOS to non-hub airports in the U.S.

Any chance EI will be able to have Air Contractors paint the 757s in EI's livery for this service?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: TS-IOR
Posted 2013-04-25 08:48:58 and read 22734 times.

I think they will paint them in the EI green livery. It's a marketing issue.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-04-25 09:45:35 and read 22398 times.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 1):
I guess Shannon and Boston do not have large catchment areas in themselves

How do you define large? I don't know about Shannon but BOS is the main airport for New England, an area of 15 million people, and a major international gateway. Boston residents take the highest number of flights, per capita, than any other city in the entire US. It's also a huge Irish city. EI currently flies 3x daily A330 to BOS, 1x from SNN and 2x DUB. BOS has TATL service from every significant European carrier (and some not so significant), and into every major EU hub.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: tjwgrr
Posted 2013-04-25 09:52:57 and read 22327 times.

Quoting TS-IOR (Thread starter):
but one would like seeing a B757 in EI colours

One can hope:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00009789.jpg

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-04-25 10:20:46 and read 22098 times.

Hmmm, a friend of mine asked me to draw this up several months back. Probably not at all related, though he does work with Aer Lingus on some projects. He never tells me what, regardless how hard I try.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: EIDL
Posted 2013-04-25 11:04:41 and read 21818 times.

Aer Lingus had their MD11 and Tristars painted when they were leased for significantly shorter periods - its pretty much a given that with Mueller pushing them towards stronger branding at all times recently that they'll be painted.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: AmricanShamrok
Posted 2013-04-25 11:23:46 and read 21263 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 6):
If they are replacing the A330s, fares will go up. If not, then the 757s will be for new service and that will help in those markets.

It is speculated that 2x 757s will replace the existing A332 at SNN (for daily summer SNN-BOS and SNN-JFK rotations instead of 4x weekly and 3x weekly respectively) and the remaining 757 will be DUB-based. I don't know how it will work during the low season (January-March).

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-25 11:25:00 and read 21204 times.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 15):
- its pretty much a given that with Mueller pushing them towards stronger branding at all times recently that they'll be painted.

Yes its 100% that they will be painted and also they will have a branded Premier section .

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-25 11:28:45 and read 21083 times.

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 2):
But does Jet Blue has rights regarding EU regulations to do so ?!

I see no problem. The US-EU open skies agreement permits almost anything related to codesharing or joint ventures.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-04-25 11:34:58 and read 20895 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 8):
I wonder why there is no DUB-FLL. There are no current flights Ireland - South Florida, and they could connect with Jetblue in FLL. It seems like a win-win for everybody.


Why? They fly to MCO! If they are going to add anywhere else in Florida it would be MIA!!!!

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-04-25 11:55:36 and read 20413 times.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 19):
Why? They fly to MCO! If they are going to add anywhere else in Florida it would be MIA!!!!

MCO is Central Florida... MIA/FLL is a different market.

IMO FLL would make more sense. They could target cruise traffic and since they have this agreement with JetBlue... JetBlue is huge at FLL (with some distinctive Caribbean destinations) and they don't fly to MIA. FLL has also much lower fees than MIA, which should work better for an "hybrid-cost" carrier like EI (think of Norwegian flying to FLL instead of MIA).

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-04-25 11:59:19 and read 20292 times.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 19):
Why? They fly to MCO! If they are going to add anywhere else in Florida it would be MIA!!!!

MIA vs. FLL makes no difference really. It's like the discussion of which is a better NYC airport: EWR vs. JFK. Both are  
Althought if I had to guess I'd say there are more "Irish" north of Miami and up to Palm Beach, than at Miami, mostly transplants from Boston and New York. But that's just my impression as a visitor.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-04-25 12:08:14 and read 20024 times.

Good to see the last remaining "rockets" being put to good use. There will never be a true replacement for the 757 sadly. Over powered means over inefficient.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-25 12:20:05 and read 19745 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 20):
MIA/FLL is a different market.

IMO FLL would make more sense. They could target cruise traffic and since they have this agreement with JetBlue... JetBlue is huge at FLL (with some distinctive Caribbean destinations) and they don't fly to MIA. FLL has also much lower fees than MIA, which should work better for an "hybrid-cost" carrier like EI (think of Norwegian flying to FLL instead of MIA).

I have said it before many a time in the Irish threads. If EI could team up with Tour Operators/Travel trade and more importantly big cruise companies like RCI CEL NCL etc.. and fly to connect with cruise departure days ( ideally day before ) then MIA / FLL could do well.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: ei2ksea
Posted 2013-04-25 12:24:13 and read 19643 times.

I'm extremely curious about where the surplus A330 (released from SNN) and that 3rd B757 will be deployed. Given the current double daily's on DUB-JFK/BOS/ORD with A330's, it doesnt seem obvious that any of these routes would warrant another frequency. In addition, AC-Rouge announcing year-round YYZ-DUB makes the concept of a YYZ run somewhat less likely IMO. Interesting times ahead for sure. Perhaps 3 weekly SFO for Summer 2014 (I can dream at least).

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 6):
If they are replacing the A330s, fares will go up. If not, then the 757s will be for new service and that will help in those markets.

I cant agree with this comment as its far too simplistic without further measures being taken into account such as the costs of operation, load factor etc. The B752 is far more appropriately sized for the SNN market. A high load factor daily B752 versus a far-less-than-full A330 with less than optimal frequency will be more competitive for EI when UA/DL have daily flights to their respective hubs in the NYC area. The frequency will be a great win for EI at SNN.

Im guessing that the B752 will also sit a little more neatly at JFK-T5 without snarling up adjacent B6 gates like the A330.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-04-25 12:30:41 and read 20171 times.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 15):
and Tristars painted when they were leased for significantly shorter periods -

Even partially. One summer they had one TZ aircraft with the whole tail painted green with the white shamrock.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Thomas Posch - VAP
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Photo © Fergal Goodman

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-04-25 12:32:18 and read 20039 times.

So, after reading all the threads from members on the other side of the pond who decry using NB a/c TATL and that they have moved on to WB a/c, along comes a non-USA carrier who wants to use NB on TATL.
Wow, will be interesting to read the trip reports.

If they are able to operate the flights profitably good for them, wish them all the best.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-04-25 12:45:49 and read 20092 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 20):
JetBlue is huge at FLL (with some distinctive Caribbean destinations) and they don't fly to MIA. FLL has also much lower fees than MIA, which should work better for an "hybrid-cost" carrier like EI (think of Norwegian flying to FLL instead of MIA).

B6 does have a lot of destinations from FLL, but the ones in the Northeast make no sense DUB-FLL-XXX, and SDQ and SJU are likewise significantly backtracking vs. direct European flights.

NAS, CUN , KIN and BOG might be useful in the B6 network.

Is DUB-FLL even in range reliably for a tight-pitch, fully loaded 757?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: cosyr
Posted 2013-04-25 13:26:44 and read 19112 times.

Took them long enough. I know 757's were never as popular in Europe, given the closer geography of major cities compared with north America, but we have been sending them across the pond for years, and Ireland is closest, so it really opens up a wealth of destination options. Also always wondered by BA didn't use theirs until open skies. It would present real possibilities from MAN, BXM, GLA and EDI.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-25 13:38:44 and read 19007 times.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 28):
Also always wondered by BA didn't use theirs until open skies.

They did. BA was one of the first transatlantic 757 operators. They operated the 757 BHX-JFK-YYZ (with 5th freedom rights JFK-YYZ) for a year or two in the late 1990s.

BA 757 at Toronto in 1997.

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Photo © John Kelley

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: DavecFlyer
Posted 2013-04-25 14:01:05 and read 18386 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 3):
757's rumoured to be converted to freighters after the contract.

I heard that the cargo conversion would not be viable as they had blended winglets and apparently you lose a lot of payload capability because of that.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-04-25 14:26:08 and read 17796 times.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 28):
I know 757's were never as popular in Europe, given the closer geography of major cities compared with north America

The 757 was quite successful with the charter industry in Europe, mainly in the UK and Germany. For its part, BA used its fleet on its UK network as well as many European destinations. Also, for many years European carriers have used the A300/310 on their continental networks.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2013-04-25 14:29:44 and read 17779 times.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 28):
Also always wondered by BA didn't use theirs until open skies. It would present real possibilities from MAN, BXM, GLA and EDI.

They did.
G-BPEC / E flew BA1515 GLA-JFK(-BOS) and BA15xx BHX-JFK(-Posted 2013-04-25 14:38:44 and read 17472 times.

They did.
G-BPEC / E flew BA1515 GLA-JFK-BOS and BA15xx BHX-JFK-YYZ after NW and AC dropped the respective cities from GLA and BHX.

The B757 replaced the B763 which had earlier replaced the L1011 at GLA. It was not a success and lasted only from early 1995 to late '96 from memory when BHX was dropped and GLA went seasonal to JFK for a few more seasons on the B763.
In fairness the first long haul B757 operators were in the 1980s with Air 2000 opening GLA-(PIK)-BGR-MCO and CMM and OL flying Canda-Europe. BY joined the party in 1991.

* Couldn't edit last post, not sure what happened!

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: IADCA
Posted 2013-04-25 15:11:30 and read 16851 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 26):

So, after reading all the threads from members on the other side of the pond who decry using NB a/c TATL and that they have moved on to WB a/c, along comes a non-USA carrier who wants to use NB on TATL.
Wow, will be interesting to read the trip reports.

Icelandair's been doing it for years. So have some niche carriers, though mostly in all-business or very business-heavy configurations (PrivatAir on behalf of several carriers, L'Avion/OpenSkies, etc.). As mentioned, BA did it briefly too.

Personally, I'd be happy to take a 757 SNN-BOS. It's only ~275 miles longer than BOS-LAX. Just a matter of whether you're flying over cornfields or sea.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: aviateur
Posted 2013-04-25 18:05:18 and read 14719 times.

I miss the Aer Lingus 747s that used to make daily calls here at BOS.

It's amazing how many routes/markets have fragmented, with carriers operating smaller and smaller planes.

At one point, until about 20 years ago, both Aer Lingus and Northwest were flying 747s between Boston and Ireland.


PS

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: cipango
Posted 2013-04-25 18:46:09 and read 14258 times.

Quoting aviateur (Reply 35):

I miss the Aer Lingus 747s that used to make daily calls here at BOS.

It's amazing how many routes/markets have fragmented, with carriers operating smaller and smaller planes.

From what I have heard the 747 was too big back then, even.

Will the 757's be fitted with a similar product as the A330's (i.e. IFE)?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: jetmarc
Posted 2013-04-25 20:44:30 and read 13306 times.

What is a damp lease? Air Contractor pilots but EI cabin crews?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: Aircellist
Posted 2013-04-25 21:12:14 and read 13050 times.

Any chance we may see EI in YUL?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: psimpson
Posted 2013-04-26 00:34:50 and read 11429 times.

Quoting jetmarc (Reply 37):
What is a damp lease? Air Contractor pilots but EI cabin crews?

Correct.
Damp lease is where everything is provided by the lessor except cabin crews.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: heathrow
Posted 2013-04-26 00:44:41 and read 11297 times.

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 38):
Any chance we may see EI in YUL?

I think YYZ will be more likely unfortunately

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-04-26 03:36:19 and read 9603 times.

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 38):

Do they serve YYZ?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-04-26 03:52:00 and read 9491 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 41):
Do they serve YYZ?

No, at the moment they only serve BOS, JFK, MCO and ORD. And if they were to open (re-open?) routes to Canada:

Quoting heathrow (Reply 40):
I think YYZ will be more likely unfortunately

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2013-04-26 05:03:13 and read 8828 times.

Quoting heathrow (Reply 40):
I think DUB-Posted 2013-04-26 05:46:59 and read 8421 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 26):
So, after reading all the threads from members on the other side of the pond who decry using NB a/c TATL and that they have moved on to WB a/c, along comes a non-USA carrier who wants to use NB on TATL.
Wow, will be interesting to read the trip reports.

Much like FI, EI is a unique European carrier. They are relatively small and relatively close to N.America making the use of a narrowbody to complement their WB routes viable, as long as there is a NB aircraft that can do the job economically, which the NEO will be able to. As mentioned above, the 757 is just an interim solution.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 28):
Took them long enough. I know 757's were never as popular in Europe, given the closer geography of major cities compared with north America

It's not that they were not popular. They were and still are hugely popular with a variety of charter airlines because of their uplift capability compared with the A321. It's just that the A321 is a much better aircraft for the European domestic market.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-04-26 14:25:24 and read 7789 times.

Quoting heathrow (Reply 40):
Quoting Aircellist (Reply 38):Any chance we may see EI in YUL?

I think YYZ will be more likely unfortunately

YUL was EI's only Canadian destination until they dropped it long ago. They have never served YYZ. If memory correct, when EI began service to ORD the flights operated via YUL. They may have operated some charters to YYZ as there are a few (4) photos of EI aircraft at YYZ in the '70s and '80s. Or they may have been diversions.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2013-04-26 15:48:32 and read 7528 times.

Air Canada Rouge are starting year round DUB-YYZ, think that ship has sailed alas.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: BasilFawlty
Posted 2013-04-26 16:07:33 and read 7469 times.

Would be nice to see the 757's on some shorter busy European routes as well instead of the now used A321's, but that's not going to happen I guess?

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: tonymctigue
Posted 2013-04-26 17:11:29 and read 7277 times.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 47):
Would be nice to see the 757's on some shorter busy European routes as well instead of the now used A321's, but that's not going to happen I guess?

Unlikely seeing as the main aim of this move is to test the water with transatlantic narrowbody services before committing to ordering the A321NEO. I'd say that there is a possibility that they may try to squeeze in a morning SNN/DUB-LHR rotation between flights given that most of the transatlantic flights arrive into SNN/DUB between 06:00 and 08:00 and generally do not depart again till after 12:00.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-04-26 23:05:09 and read 6968 times.

For those that haven't been on a 757 this is a good chance to get that rocket feeling at take off. Its not the slow 737/A320 NB. Its just great that way, huge engines on a NB.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2013-04-27 00:22:55 and read 6798 times.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 47):
Would be nice to see the 757's on some shorter busy European routes as well instead of the now used A321's, but that's not going to happen I guess?

Actually I would expect the B757 to make the odd appearance on longer Euro sectors (LPA, TFS,FUE) rather that the LHR routes. Capacity will actually be less than the EI A321's. (But it will be more than the SNN based A320's)

There is no confirmation that the B757 will result in daily JFK/BOS ex SNN. ANd I cannot see the DUB based B757 being used 7x weekly for a new route. So there will be B757 availability 2-3 times a week for EUro sectors.

Topic: RE: Aer Lingus To Boost Transatlantic With 757s!
Username: AmricanShamrok
Posted 2013-04-27 04:40:15 and read 6463 times.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 50):
There is no confirmation that the B757 will result in daily JFK/BOS ex SNN.

I can't see EI basing just one 757 at SNN and maintaining the status quo schedule-wise. The current A332 operation does not struggle with light loads (far from it actually, even at this time of the year!). If I was a betting man I would say SNN-BOS will go daily and SNN-JFK will go 5x weekly or daily as well. If UA didn't jump on the bandwagon with SNN-ORD this year I think EI would have given that serious consideration too (maybe rotating the JFK 757 to ORD 3x or 4x weekly).


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