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Topic: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-04 22:30:23 and read 17270 times.

I'm not sure what is behind this info, however I have a report that says Olympic Airlines has negotiated with it lessors to return its A319/A320 aircraft and revert an all Dash-8 & Q400 operation by this summer.

As I said I am not sure what is driving this - if its the proposed Aegean merger for which the companies allegedly last month proposed to the EU several regulatory concessions to make the deal more acceptable, or if its owners Marfin Holdings is tired of supporting the ongoing losses.

I know OA has shrunk its network quite a bit over the last year to focus primarily on domestic flying including public service obligation routes, with only a handful of foreign markets left on the map.

Anyone have any insight ?

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: 0A340
Posted 2013-04-05 03:34:14 and read 16613 times.

This is not a rumor, is the stark truth. Olympic Air's current network can barely support a couple of 150-seaters, and makes no sense for such a small fleet to maintain. The Airbus 320-family fleet has shrunk from a 16 max to barely a few currently. Uncorrelated to what happens with the proposed 'merger', in reality, takeover, by Aegean, a dedicated fleet of efficient and modern turboprops makes sense.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-04-05 05:02:26 and read 16271 times.

What is the status of the 4 A340 at the Athens airport ? Are they still there ?

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: raffik
Posted 2013-04-05 06:23:39 and read 15880 times.

According to Wikipedia, Olympic have no more A320 in the fleet, retiring them on the 31st March 2013.
This is quite a shock - does this mean they no longer offer any flights to London and Paris etc?
We always used to fly with Olympic Airways to Lebanon. A340 (sometimes a 747-200 early 90s) to Athens and then a 737-200 to Beirut. Fantastic service always.
Really sad. Not they just have Dash 8 s

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: KaiTak747
Posted 2013-04-05 06:33:39 and read 15700 times.

According to Wikipedia the last A320 was retired on 31st March. They now currently operate 4 Dash 8-100s (37 seats) and 10 Dash 8 Q400s (78 seats).

I think the Q400s are the right size for them, but isn't the -100 a bit small? With only 37 seats the yields must have to be very high to make money on these small aircraft, which will be very difficult in the Greek depression.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):

What is the status of the 4 A340 at the Athens airport ? Are they still there ?

I believe they were sold for scrap by the Greek Government, all four of them for $40 million. Due to the maintenance logs being incomplete or missing they were never going to fly again.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
As I said I am not sure what is driving this - if its the proposed Aegean merger for which the companies allegedly last month proposed to the EU several regulatory concessions to make the deal more acceptable, or if its owners Marfin Holdings is tired of supporting the ongoing losses.

The merger was blocked by the EU commission on the grounds that it would lead to a monopoly on Greek air travel. This doesn't make a lot of sense as FR or EZ could further penetrate the market if the demand was there.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-05 06:38:18 and read 15597 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

I'm not sure what is behind this info, however I have a report that says Olympic Airlines has negotiated with it lessors to return its A319/A320 aircraft and revert an all Dash-8 & Q400 operation by this summer.

Its not rumor its true. They have been winding down the Airbus fleet for a while now. ATH-IST was moved to Dash-8 also. This is to satisfy the EU for the appeal on the merger. Ruling due in the next few weeks. The hope was also that now that CY has a small operation in Greece that all these things would go in favor. The only thing now is that unless the Chinese buy CY it is curtains for them and this in turn could have implications on any A3/OA merger approval.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
What is the status of the 4 A340 at the Athens airport ? Are they still there ?

Last time I saw them was December/January and I took pics of the ones parked at the remote gate and another of the one inside the hanger. SX-DFA ( Olympia ) has been dismantled.

Basically if the merger goes through then eventually we will see some small network which will (subject to whatever conditions are applied) consist of a small jet fleet 20% and 80% prop. Any jets in future would need to be E Jet type and not A320's.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out thats for sure.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-05 06:48:43 and read 15446 times.

Olympic Air has been a mess since day 1. What they are missing is a decent strategy and a purpose. They started off competing with Aegean and the others but when they saw that things were not turning out as they had hoped for, they limited themselves to a Balkan and eastern Mediterranean network. As time when by, they kept on reducing their network and the most shocking decision was when they decided to suspend their flights to Larnaca.

If they end up keeping only the Dashes, and if this strategy doesn't work, then I guess they are left with no other choice but to give up and call it a day.

Also, didn't Marfin Investment Group own a part of the Laiki Bank that was liquidated some days ago? This could be one of the reasons why they can't cover the losses of Olympic.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-05 06:57:23 and read 15318 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 6):
Olympic Air has been a mess since day 1.

They actually started off with a decent plan and a good fleet and network. MIG had the capital OA needed and then the economic crisis came. They then decided to chat to A3. The first attempt to merge was rejected by the EU due to competition fears. Then ever since OA/A3 have been turning OA into a small domestic carrier to try get the merger through in appeal. Hence the pulling of LHR/LCA etc.... LCA was not shocking it was a clear business plan to satisfy Brussels.

If this fails then OA will keep as a Domestic Dash only operator with maybe some close partnerships with A3 and others.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: Andy33
Posted 2013-04-05 07:09:16 and read 15138 times.

Quote:
think the Q400s are the right size for them, but isn't the -100 a bit small? With only 37 seats the yields must have to be very high to make money on these small aircraft, which will be very difficult in the Greek depression.

The -100s are used on PSO subsidised routes to small islands where the runways couldn't take a -400 and most of them couldn't take even an ATR-42 in the days when the previous Olympic had some.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: sofianec
Posted 2013-04-05 07:24:08 and read 14885 times.

Olympic have the best service of all airlines flying in and out of SOF. And I love the DASH. It's very nice.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-05 07:36:17 and read 14687 times.

Quoting sofianec (Reply 9):
Olympic have the best service of all airlines flying in and out of SOF. And I love the DASH. It's very nice.

Beleive it or not I have never been on the OA props always been the jets. I know people that use the Domestic routes alot for leisure and business travel and the feedback has mostly been very positive. They certainly had a great AIrbus product on LHR and IST so if they do return to some key routes with E Jets or similar then lets hope the product stays the same.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-05 08:56:39 and read 13707 times.

Wow thanks guys.

I knew things were not going too well for OA as its route network continued to shrink, but did not realize it got to the point of parking all its Airbus fleet.

Regarding Q400's, while nice planes, they can be costly to operate on a per seat kilometer basis.
I hope OA managed high enough revenue yields as otherwise a regional only operation will only further add to the red ink.


Btw - what happened to OA's London slots -- lease to Aegean ?

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: Andy33
Posted 2013-04-05 09:03:45 and read 13608 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Btw - what happened to OA's London slots -- lease to Aegean ?

That's exactly right. There was a period with 5 flights a day from LHR to ATH using A3's own slots and the OA ones, then they tried using some for an LCA route. The two slot pairs A3 were using originally were leased from BMI, and were repossessed by BA at the end of the winter timetable as part of the sale of BMI. So now A3 uses only the three OA slot pairs, and the LCA route has been moved to LGW.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-05 09:30:55 and read 13283 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):

Yes, but if I am not mistaken their period of decent operations lasted a short while. My whole point is that once the crisis started Olympic lost all market and started shrinking very fast. Had they managed to reorganize themselves and find their own place within the Greek market there would be no need for them to seek a merger with Aegean. They limited themselves to the low yielding Balkan market instead of going into markets which are only now being exploited by Aegean, and which Astra has developed really nice, that is eastern Europe, primarily Russia.
Another way they could have made more money was by basing a few aircraft in Crete or some other island and by flying charter flights.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-05 09:53:59 and read 13007 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 13):
My whole point is that once the crisis started Olympic lost all market and started shrinking very fast. Had they managed to reorganize themselves and find their own place within the Greek market there would be no need for them to seek a merger with Aegean

Wasnt going to happen. OA and any carrier for that matter would have found it hard to excel in such a market. Hence the reason A3 argue that there is only room for one medium sized Greek carrier and thats what the merger is all about. The merger is aimed at A3/OA both surviving under two brands but joint purchasing power from catering to ground handling etc.. The crisis/merger and OA/A3 deciding to shrink OA's fleet and network happened very fast also ! Talks were silently going on before they hit the rumour mills. Unfortunately Olympic Air entered the market at very difficult times to put it mildly so they could hardly find their own place in the market overnight where the market had changed so much.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-05 11:16:43 and read 12132 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):

Well, what else could Aegean say? No, there is enough room for both of us so let them be?

The reason why I said that they should have aimed at charter flights is exactly because of the crisis and the reduced demand at Athens airport. Aegean seems to be doing just fine when it comes to bringing tourists to the Greek islands, they are even expanding their Rhodes and Crete network this summer- as I am sure you are aware of it.

With the extra capacity they could have concentrated more at Thessaloniki which back then was not as competitive as it is today.

There were several options on the table, that is other than the merger. I think when the crisis started and when things turned ugly they tried to take the easiest way out- sell the whole business to Aegean.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-05 11:33:52 and read 11965 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 15):
Well, what else could Aegean say? No, there is enough room for both of us so let them be?

Well its because it was and is true.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 15):
charter flights

To whom ? Thats a pipe dream. Even A3's charter market shrinked. What routes based on factual figures would you suggest and also give reasoning for why it would work and what kind of profit you would expect them to yield?

Quoting JU068 (Reply 15):
Aegean seems to be doing just fine when it comes to bringing tourists to the Greek islands, they are even expanding their Rhodes and Crete network this summer- as I am sure you are aware of it.

Purely because OA is not in competition anymore thus further copper fastening the realisation that the market is not big enough for both parties to operate the same model/routes.

Dont forget that during the first year of service Olympic Air gained international awards for its developments and innovation so it was hardly a mess from day one as you posted. I think a bit more understanding of the region and market would give you a more factual overview of the issue.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-04-05 11:39:46 and read 11895 times.

What a fall from grace for the airline and the country in general.

Europe is such an economic mess right now, it is scary.

The day Greece kissed the Drakna goodbye and entered into the EU will go down in infamy.

Olympic was better off being a government subsidized, cockpit-filled-with-cigarette-smoke, surly flight attendant airline. They just weren't ready for prime-time on the open market.

Sad news

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-05 11:50:05 and read 11742 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
To whom ? Thats a pipe dream. Even A3's charter market shrinked. What routes based on factual figures would you suggest and also give reasoning for why it would work and what kind of profit you would expect them to yield?

To all sorts of foreign agencies that send their people for holidays to Greece. Though the income would not be that great it would still be better than to have their aircraft parked in Athens- as was the case in the beginning. Just look at the summer charters from the Balkans to the Greek islands, and I used the Balkans as an example because that is all that is left of their network.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
Dont forget that during the first year of service Olympic Air gained international awards for its developments and innovation so it was hardly a mess from day one as you posted. I think a bit more understanding of the region and market would give you a more factual overview of the issue.

I actually live in that market so I am very well aware of what is happening and how the market is developing. If the airline was not a mess from the start its business model would not have deteriorated with the first days of the crisis. From the outside the airline seemed ok but from within there were many flaws which cost them a lot in the long-run. Also, there were two crucial mistakes their investors made.
The first was that they replaced their Atrs with Dashs which was not suitable for the internal Greek market. Second of all, they did not manage to reduce the cost structure which was what brought down the old Olympic (among other things).
It took some time for Athens airport to lower their fees which acted as a catalyst in the whole collapse of the airline.

These were actually things I was told by people who worked for the airline, so they are not from the the top of my head.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-05 12:19:27 and read 11472 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 17):
Olympic was better off being a government subsidized, cockpit-filled-with-cigarette-smoke, surly flight attendant airline. They just weren't ready for prime-time on the open market.

Well the government was the problem all along. It used the old OA as a playground for its voters.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 18):
To all sorts of foreign agencies that send their people for holidays to Greece. Though the income would not be that great it would still be better than to have their aircraft parked in Athens-

That really doesnt answer the question to be honest. If you were able to provide us with facts and figures to support that arguement then I would agree with you. its all very vague and maybe and if etc...

Quoting JU068 (Reply 18):
If the airline was not a mess from the start its business model would not have deteriorated with the first days of the crisis.

As stated above it was not in a mess from day one. It had a very good business plan and product with the injection of capital it needed. Maybe go back and read the documents from MIG that were freely available from day one to the public and investors alike.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 18):
Second of all, they did not manage to reduce the cost structure which was what brought down the old Olympic (among other things).

Another mis truth to be honest. The main issue for state controlled OA was the unions and pay scales. This was dramatically reduced in the company set up by MIG.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 18):
These were actually things I was told by people who worked for the airline, so they are not from the the top of my head.

Which means we need to take it with a pinch of salt.   Im sure there were many views and ideas from various departments as with all establishments.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-05 23:40:13 and read 8217 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
That really doesnt answer the question to be honest. If you were able to provide us with facts and figures to support that arguement then I would agree with you. its all very vague and maybe and if etc...

Are you able to provide the facts and figures to prove me wrong?  

Aegean will be operating the following flights, which are most definitely there to bring in the tourists:

Kalamata - Tel Aviv, two weekly.
Kalamata - Moscow Domodedovo, two weekly.
Kalamata - Munich, two weekly.
Kalamata - Stockholm, once a week.
Corfu - Milan Malpensa, once a weekly.
Corfu - Moscow Domodedovo, two weekly
Corfu - Rome, once a week.
Heraklion - Brussels, once a week.
Heraklion - Moscow Domodedovo, three weekly.
Heraklion - Tel Aviv, two weekly.
Heraklion - Düsseldorf, two weekly.
Heraklion - Frankfurt, two weekly.
Heraklion - St. Petersburg, two weekly.
Alexandroupolis - St. Petersburg, once a week.
Kos - Moscow Domodedovo, two weekly.
Kos - Maribor, once a week.

Though most of these frequencies are not crazy, it does show that there was/is room for Olympic to expand into the tourist market instead of just concentrating on the extremely competitive Athens market or the low yielding domestic market. Though the Greek economy might be in crisis the tourism industry is doing just fine. As I said, I do not have the numbers you asked for but logically speaking there is a market and, at least in my opinion, when the crisis started they should have directed some of their business to the Greek islands.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
Another mis truth to be honest. The main issue for state controlled OA was the unions and pay scales. This was dramatically reduced in the company set up by MIG.

The whole point is that their cost structure was still too high for the market they served. Also, the maintenance cost for their rather large Dash-8 fleet was much higher than the one they had for their Atrs.



Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
Which means we need to take it with a pinch of salt.   Im sure there were many views and ideas from various departments as with all establishments.

Well, normally I would doubt what they are saying but he is working in the middle management of the airline. So it's not like it is your usual galley gossip.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-06 02:27:52 and read 7977 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 18):
To all sorts of foreign agencies that send their people for holidays to Greece.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 20):
Are you able to provide the facts and figures to prove me wrong?  

So you want me to provide you with the facts and figures to prove something you claim would work ? No thats not the way it goes my friend. If you are going to make a business suggestion YOU need to back it up with projected tourist numbers,aircraft to be used, cost analysis and projected yields and profits. If this is anything other than just fantasy football and armchair CEO  
Quoting JU068 (Reply 20):
Though most of these frequencies are not crazy, it does show that there was/is room for Olympic to expand into the tourist market instead of just concentrating on the extremely competitive Athens market or the low yielding domestic market.

Aegean has the Alliance conntections and the bases something that took years to build. Even then they have found it very tough and lost money. Take a look at the in depth statistics available. Being part of Star Alliance has fed them a good portion of traffic but it took them years to build this model.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 20):
Well, normally I would doubt what they are saying but he is working in the middle management of the airline. So it's not like it is your usual galley gossip.

Well again I know people in high positions in the industry and hear lots of things but I always take them with a pinch of salt until they become fact.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-06 10:28:47 and read 7495 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):

Erm... yeah, why would I go seek all those information when I was merely pointing out that it would be better to seek charter contracts than to have their planes sit on the ground. I always thought that seeking ways to improve aircraft utilisation was the most important thing in the aviation business. Plus, I am sure most people understood that what I wrote was not a serious business proposal so there was no need to go into so much detail. General market trends and the overall state of the Greek market were enough to sustain the argument.
I did not see you presenting any of those things you mentioned above when you were arguing in the Cyprus Airways thread.  


But I guess it doesn't matter because 99% of us on this website are armchair experts.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-04-06 10:31:39 and read 7488 times.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 22):
I did not see you presenting any of those things you mentioned above when you were arguing in the Cyprus Airways thread.  

Didnt need to . The figures speak for themselves  
Quoting JU068 (Reply 22):
But I guess it doesn't matter because 99% of us on this website are armchair experts.

Hope its comfy    

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: mrcomet
Posted 2013-04-06 19:50:10 and read 7138 times.

A sad fall from the days of their majestic 747-200s plying the trades from Bangkok and Sydney to Montreal. Those birds always seemed special.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2013-04-07 14:26:33 and read 6853 times.

Any chance Olympic will fly the Q400 on Athens-Larnaca? I think it's around 1,000km and doesn't fly too far from land.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-04-07 20:39:11 and read 6623 times.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 25):

I think they could but both Aegean and Cyprus Airways will have up to 8 daily flights between Larnaca and Athens. I am surprised that Olympic has not tried flying to Paphos. Ryanair seems to be doing more than fine with their Thessaloniki flights (even in winter the flights are full) and in this way Olympic could cover all of eastern Cyprus and give an alternative to people living in Limassol, who are living halfway between Paphos and Larnaca. I guess the economic climate is not making it easy for them.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-04-29 12:14:11 and read 5310 times.

What does rejection of merger with A3 do to OA business plan ?

It seems they have purposely exited many markets shrinking while awaiting merger.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-04-29 15:35:27 and read 5108 times.

Being 100% privately held it really will be up to its owners (Marfin Investment Group) as to what they decide to do.

From what I gather Marfin lost €1.36bil in 2012 itself, so who knows how deep its pockets are to keep funding a loss making airline. Having committed to selling OA to A3, they clearly are willing to dispose of it, if the opportunity exist.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-05-14 09:31:26 and read 4580 times.

So Olympic is essentially non-viable standalone company.

I think owners need to either invest and rebuild into competitive enterprise or forget this game of trying to minimize operations while awaiting merger this last years.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-14 11:25:28 and read 4354 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
The crisis/merger and OA/A3 deciding to shrink OA's fleet and network happened very fast also !

Actually as you said earlier:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
Well the government was the problem all along. It used the old OA as a playground for its voters.

So while this particular decision to get rid of the Airbus aircraft was fast, it was just the final act of a slow death.

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-05-30 07:50:34 and read 3349 times.

I see A3 just post a loss. OA probably also loss making.

Makes merger more critical for both, but does OA have a plan B incase EU does not allow merger?
How long can the small prop only operation last?

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-05-30 08:18:38 and read 3275 times.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 31):
I see A3 just post a loss. OA probably also loss making.

Yes but they narrowed the loss year on year considerably so their business model seems to be working despite issues at home. Domestic market shrunk again as expected. So on the part of A3 its positive news. Going from a loss of 31.2M to 8.2M is a great result considering the climate in Greece. If this trend continues then they will make a profit. The busy Summer season has just started so with projected traffic from Jun-Sept I am very much looking forward to the next QTR results.

As for OA unless you have seen the figures its all speculation on the figures and nothing is fact until we get those. If A3 decreases its Domestic operations and OA takes them up then a prop operation can work quite well given the Islands that need served.


Increased International Traffic and Revenue

Revenue for the first quarter of 2013 reached €115.9m, 11% higher compared to the same quarter of last year. Pre-tax losses narrowed to €8.2m compared to losses of €31.2m in 2012. Higher load factors in international routes and further cost management efforts were the main contributors to the improvement.

Net result after taxes was a loss of €1.2m against losses of €25m in 2012, given the additional positive impact of a €5m rise in deferred tax assets, derived from the increase in tax rate to 26% from 20%.

AEGEAN carried 1 million passengers in the first quarter of 2013, achieving an increase in its average load factor to 70.5% from 65.3%. Passengers on international flights reached 585 thousand, rising by 7% versus 2012. Domestic traffic fell by 13%, with average fares declining by a further 9% for a fifth consecutive year as a result of declining local GDP.

http://en.aegeanair.com/all-about-us...s-releases/press-release/?prid=417

Topic: RE: Rumor: Olympic Air To Return Airbus, Go All Prop
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-30 13:11:00 and read 2982 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 32):
As for OA unless you have seen the figures its all speculation on the figures and nothing is fact until we get those.

MIG has not reported its Q1 numbers yet, but its probably safe to say that OA continues to lose money for the group and them having continue take impairment charges.

I suppose in the coming weeks we will know.


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