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Topic: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-03-07 14:54:55 and read 86859 times.

Due to length of part 7, please continue part 8 here if so desired.

Previous thread: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 7 (by Luxair747SP Jan 21 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-03-08 01:46:14 and read 86520 times.

First Photo in the database:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Langenfeld - hummelfX

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Semaex
Posted 2013-03-08 05:02:39 and read 85892 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):

That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

One question though: Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330? Does that not increase the parasite drag a lot?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-08 05:09:37 and read 85856 times.

I have a question. There are 5 spots at station 18:

http://oi45.tinypic.com/5bocd4.jpg

And 7 hangars at station 20:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/2i7o6eb.jpg

At some point in time these places will handle 10x A330 and 10x A350 aircraft per month. Airbus is building a second A350 FAL right now but no word on extra places at station 18 nor station 20. Are 5x station 18 and 7x station 20 spots really enough to support the assembly of 20 aircraft a month?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-08 05:20:18 and read 85787 times.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
One question though: Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330? Does that not increase the parasite drag a lot?

Well, the A380 has more or less the same tail design at the VTP/fuselage meeting point..


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © T.Laurent



So I guess the design works  Smile

[Edited 2013-03-08 05:21:01]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: infiniti329
Posted 2013-03-08 07:56:55 and read 84676 times.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Pugman211
Posted 2013-03-08 08:44:03 and read 84087 times.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 5):
Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets

Agreed!!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-03-08 09:19:23 and read 83656 times.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330?

There is a rounded shape at the base of the fin. It doesn't necessarily need to be proportional to the size of the fin.
And it decreases the wetted area that way.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: rwood89
Posted 2013-03-08 09:46:46 and read 83303 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
I have a question. There are 5 spots at station 18:

and 7 hangars at station 20:

At some point in time these places will handle 10x A330 and 10x A350 aircraft per month. Airbus is building a second A350 FAL right now but no word on extra places at station 18 nor station 20. Are 5x station 18 and 7x station 20 spots really enough to support the assembly of 20 aircraft a month?


If you can streamline production and improve it's leaness then yeah, make more with less.

Eventually the A330 will be completely replaced by the A350, although there's no sight of this yet, I believe once the A350 is flying and production matures, there won't be as much demand for the A330 and it will slowly phase out. There will be plenty of young second hand frames available perhaps too because of the increased production rate now.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ER757
Posted 2013-03-08 10:22:34 and read 82869 times.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 5):
Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets

Yeah - the A350 has instantly risen to near the top of my favorite looking aircraft with those babies!  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: TeamDA
Posted 2013-03-08 11:07:50 and read 82362 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
And 7 hangars at station 20:

To my knowledge (from the Taxiway panoramic tours and other sources) there are actually 9 station 20 hangers. Which I have labelled in red 20A-20I.

Airbus Postes


They've more or less finished a new hanger next to 20A, but I don't think it is in use yet.
In addition the big hanger C63 can get at least 3 A330s inside, I have seen frames come out of Poste 35A/B and go straight in there, frames go from stations 18 in there and from stations 20. A330s can also end up in C63 after a test flight. So although I don't count it in the 9 stations 20 at present this hanger provides extra capacity.

The area I have marked with 1 (Blue) is now a location that you can often see A330s in a similar state to stations 18. Therefore you could also consider that as extra capacity, especially after they have come out of stations 30.

Early this month I realised that it looks like a new hanger is being built in the area marked 2 (Blue) next to the hanger traditionally used by the test flight A380s.

There is one hanger I have marked with Z (Blue) , that I don't know what it has used for. It looks like a paint hall (other 2 are marked with PH) , but i have also seen A320s and 330s in there receiving attention.

Finally there is also the opportunity to do some work off site. B-LAZ (A330 msn 1387) is a recent example as it spent more than two weeks away from TLS between it's first and second flight. I think at Châteauroux and came back painted and I assume with its cabin installed.

What is happening on the A350 site, I don't know. It is still one big building site on one side still and the tours don't get near it. It is also built in such a way that external views are very limited.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-08 11:48:19 and read 81899 times.

Now that's some useful information! Thank you. There is almost nothing to find on the internet about the A330 final assembly buildings.

Quote:
They've more or less finished a new hanger next to 20A, but I don't think it is in use yet.
In addition the big hanger C63 can get at least 3 A330s inside, I have seen frames come out of Poste 35A/B and go straight in there, frames go from stations 18 in there and from stations 20. A330s can also end up in C63 after a test flight. So although I don't count it in the 9 stations 20 at present this hanger provides extra capacity.

It's probably a hanger with enough space to do some (specific customer?) things that are not part of the normal assembly process.

Quote:
The area I have marked with 1 (Blue) is now a location that you can often see A330s in a similar state to stations 18. Therefore you could also consider that as extra capacity, especially after they have come out of stations 30.

Ah, there are more places for outdoor ground tests. Good to know.

There is still one unknown building, do you know its purpose?

http://oi47.tinypic.com/vpbx34.jpg

1 = A330 wing join
2 = A330 fuselage join
3 = A330 system installation
? = ??

The steel on the roof indicates that there are cranes inside so it must be some kind of assembly building.

[Edited 2013-03-08 11:52:36]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: TeamDA
Posted 2013-03-08 12:48:22 and read 81198 times.

Your latest pic takes me back a few years when Taxiway ran a tour of the A330/340 line.

The area with the question mark is the Beluga unpacking area. They go in nose first here where there is some equipment to empty them.

Area 1 as you say is where the wings are joined to the middle fuselage section. This is know as Poste 40A

Area 2 has two areas for assembling the aircraft. Marked as Poste 35A (bottom of pic) and Poste 35B

Area 3 is then Poste 30D - Poste 30A from left to right.

The old tour had a visitors gallery between poste 30A and 35A. So if you have seen any pictures of 4 A330s on the line it is probably taken from here.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-08 12:58:13 and read 81102 times.

Quoting TeamDA (Reply 12):
The old tour had a visitors gallery between poste 30A and 35A. So if you have seen any pictures of 4 A330s on the line it is probably taken from here.

Like this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aviaciondigital/5412855073/ ?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-03-08 13:38:36 and read 80614 times.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 9):
Yeah - the A350 has instantly risen to near the top of my favorite looking aircraft with those babies!

Really? I don't think they fit with the rest of the wing design. To me, they somehow look like something that was mounted on an already existing design, like the 767 winglets.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-03-08 17:54:33 and read 79566 times.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 14):
Really? I don't think they fit with the rest of the wing design. To me, they somehow look like something that was mounted on an already existing design, like the 767 winglets.

I can see where you are coming from, but they look so damn good at the same time  

Certainly adds some interest and something distinctive to the aircraft.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-03-08 17:58:16 and read 79549 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):
First Photo in the database:

Are the engines mounted? One cannot say from the pic but I guess at the point where the plane is spending time outside, they must be on. No?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-03-08 18:53:47 and read 79432 times.

Quoting a380900 (Reply 16):
Are the engines mounted? One cannot say from the pic but I guess at the point where the plane is spending time outside, they must be on. No?

Nope, the engines will not be mounted until after she has been to the paint shop.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-03-08 23:03:15 and read 79173 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 15):
I can see where you are coming from, but they look so damn good at the same time  

Certainly adds some interest and something distinctive to the aircraft.

This is also true.. I will wait with final verdict till I see the whole aircraft assembled and painted  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-03-08 23:51:05 and read 79058 times.

Ive got a question though, the A350 is supposed to have a composite structure, but why is it outside unpainted?? Shouldn't it be covered to the protect the surfaces from the UV rays? Or is it already protected in some other way like a protective coating being applied already?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-09 02:01:49 and read 78783 times.

So she's been outside for 10 days now, anyone knows how far along the station 18 test are?

Getting anxious to see her painted  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: bigsmile
Posted 2013-03-09 11:44:48 and read 77877 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 19):
Ive got a question though, the A350 is supposed to have a composite structure, but why is it outside unpainted?? Shouldn't it be covered to the protect the surfaces from the UV rays? Or is it already protected in some other way like a protective coating being applied already?

Already painted in Primer (green or yellow depending how you see it)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-03-09 11:46:16 and read 77863 times.

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 21):
Already painted in Primer (green or yellow depending how you see it)

Thanks, thats what I was thinking.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-09 13:52:10 and read 77635 times.

Another picture, MSN001 at station 18:


(uploaded by Flox Papa)

[Edited 2013-03-09 13:56:08]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-03-09 14:13:27 and read 77449 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 23):

Thanks for sharing that photo Karel, it looks really nice at that angle, though if only it had some Trent XWB's on it...

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-03-10 05:04:28 and read 77552 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 24):
Thanks for sharing that photo Karel, it looks really nice at that angle, though if only it had some Trent XWB's on it...

Soon she will have them mounted under these beautiful wings.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
Now that's some useful information! Thank you. There is almost nothing to find on the Internet about the A330 final assembly buildings.

Thanks to your digging work we now know more.  . The facilities look to be build pretty dense. Are they running out of space in Tolulouse?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: lollomz
Posted 2013-03-10 11:09:09 and read 76682 times.

Very intersting winglets design; in my opinion they don't appear like the one on B767s, they fit perfctly on the wings!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-03-10 11:18:39 and read 77941 times.

Does anyone else see a hint of the 757 in the nose, at least from the profile? I can't decide if I like it or not, from some angles it looks fine while others (like the one in reply 23) it looks kind of stubby.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-10 14:09:17 and read 77479 times.

Quoting starbucks (Reply 20):
So she's been outside for 10 days now, anyone knows how far along the station 18 test are?

I learned that outdoor tests for the A330 last about 2 weeks so I don't expect MSN001 to be moved before the end of next week.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2013-03-10 14:45:02 and read 77320 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 25):
Thanks to your digging work we now know more. . The facilities look to be build pretty dense. Are they running out of space in Tolulouse?

Bing maps shows an area North of the A380 complex as the site for phase 3, so there's still quite a bit left yet.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-10 15:41:25 and read 77138 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 28):
I learned that outdoor tests for the A330 last about 2 weeks so I don't expect MSN001 to be moved before the end of next week.

Ok, thanks, Just trying to get a timeline... End next week, 15/16 March.... 1 week for paint, 23/24 March.... Engine installation, 1/2 weeks... So rollout early April??   (hopefully... )

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2013-03-10 18:45:32 and read 76806 times.

Loving the initial look of the A350. Of course lets see it fully painted up.

Overall it is/has been an exciting couple of years in civil aviaiton,I am enjoying all the developments and changes happening
....B787 (flying again soon I hope)....A350....C Series....A320 Sharklets.....A320NEO and B737MAX programs

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-12 13:41:01 and read 75396 times.

More winglet pictures.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PFBCdqjzq1U/UTuzbpq4nzI/AAAAAAAAC0w/HbRubKf04Os/s1600/image.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jlfCiRfJ7ZI/UTuzbQcV7dI/AAAAAAAAC0s/h609tkGLlIY/s1600/image.jpg

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-03-12 14:06:21 and read 75116 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
More winglet pictures.

Thanks for posting. These wing-lets are absolutely gorgeous!  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KPDX
Posted 2013-03-12 14:12:52 and read 75096 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 33):
Thanks for posting. These wing-lets are absolutely gorgeous!  

They look far more "sharklet-y" than the A32x winglets. 

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-12 14:48:28 and read 74900 times.

Quoting starbucks (Reply 30):
Ok, thanks, Just trying to get a timeline... End next week, 15/16 March.... 1 week for paint, 23/24 March.... Engine installation, 1/2 weeks... So rollout early April??   (hopefully... )

I think station 20 will take at least 2 weeks, maybe longer. It's not just attaching the engines but also checking if everything works, all the engine sensors etc. A roll out in the second half of April looks more likely.

It's also possible that Airbus will not show the complete airplane until the official roll out ceremony.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: faedc3
Posted 2013-03-12 15:08:26 and read 74831 times.

That is some sexy sharklet... to me it looks like a flying Manta Ray

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmforster/219829995/

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: N14AZ
Posted 2013-03-12 15:24:09 and read 74715 times.

Are this "historic" pictures of MSN 001 getting its winglets or which MSN is this?

Just out of curiousity: why no safety helmets when working with that gantry crane and moving objects? Naaah, these baseball caps will work fine in case something goes wrong...

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ER757
Posted 2013-03-12 16:56:43 and read 74403 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
More winglet pictures.

Beautiful.......I'll forgive the stubby-looking nose in reply 23 as long as these beauties are attached to the wings.
Really anticipating seeing it fully painted and also airborne!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-13 01:26:54 and read 73833 times.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
re this "historic" pictures of MSN 001 getting its winglets or which MSN is this?

Correct, these are the winglets of MSN001.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-13 01:42:42 and read 73951 times.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
Are this "historic" pictures of MSN 001 getting its winglets or which MSN is this?

This is MSN001, MSN003 which is next at FAL is not in station 30 yet, it should have entered station 40 and should have it's wings, pylons and vertical/horizontal tail fitted.

The picture is nice not only for showing the fitting of those gorgeous winglets or the real sharklets as they should be called (the A320 is just a blended winglet renamed to sharklet  ) but for showing the very distinctive A350 flaps deployed:



Airbus uses an inner and outer flap with a seamless join between them (left arrow, Boeing has a high speed aileron in between, it is discussed at length in the Airbus vs Boeing wing thread in Tech/Ops). This seamless join allows a very optimally shaped pressure distribution on the wings inner part. This is especially important at start as the designers fight for every % of lift versus drag (L/D) to allow max MTOW to be hauled while still being safe if one engine let's go.

Given the droop hinge principle of the A350 wing flaps such a join is a little tricky to get simple and efficient. Airbus solved it nicely by having the outer flap deploying straight back thus parallel to the inner flap. They also gain noise level by doing that (the under wing flap fairings does not go into the wind, generating turbulence and thus noise), this is especially important at landing when e.g. operating at LHR where Airport operation noise is a real issue. This importance will only augment and more and more airports will join LHR with such night flying rules.

The right arrow in the picture points to the area between outer flap and high speed or inner aileron, the gap between these is made a little more complicated as the outer flap now moves straight back and the aileron follow the wings trailing edge angle. When both are deployed (aileron droop for start and landing) there is a small gap on the inner part which closes when going to the aileron/flap tip. Airbus has made a fitting in between for sealing the gap at the non deployed position, this also holds the wing tank venting outlet.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Crj 900
Posted 2013-03-13 02:59:47 and read 73580 times.

beautiful! aside from that FUGLY nose and cockpit.....

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2013-03-13 03:00:39 and read 73595 times.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
Just out of curiousity: why no safety helmets when working with that gantry crane and moving objects? Naaah, these baseball caps will work fine in case something goes wrong...

If anything breaks in this scenario a £3 safety helmet is totally useless. Their widespread use is just a result of our modern obsession with petty minded rules. They are very useful for what they are designed for which is to protect the head from small falling objects, on a building site they provide protection if a hammer or a brick falls off the scaffold onto someone below. They provide similar protection on other environments.
What they don't do is protect you from a falling load from a crane, being run over by a vehicle etc.

Their drawbacks include providing people with a false sense of security, and restricting vision, particularly when looking up.

Airbus Health & Safety obviously take a sensible approach to this.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: moo
Posted 2013-03-13 03:21:23 and read 73415 times.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
What they don't do is protect you from a falling load from a crane, being run over by a vehicle etc.

They would offer some protection against a stray load bearing strap swinging around with a bolt eye on the end, however....

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: art
Posted 2013-03-13 03:21:28 and read 73419 times.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
If anything breaks in this scenario a £3 safety helmet is totally useless.... What they don't do is protect you from a falling load from a crane, being run over by a vehicle etc.

Their drawbacks include providing people with a false sense of security, and restricting vision, particularly when looking up.

Airbus Health & Safety obviously take a sensible approach to this.

I would say a safer approach from what you say - you are less likely to avoid injury if you wear a helmet.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-13 03:49:29 and read 73430 times.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
Just out of curiousity: why no safety helmets when working with that gantry crane and moving objects? Naaah, these baseball caps will work fine in case something goes wrong...

It looks like one of these things: http://www.tuffcap.com, they're baseball caps with protection around the head... I would say that's enough for some stray bands swinging around?

And if they are normal caps, these offer some protection as well. Last year I bumped my head (really hard) onto the edge of a Fokker 70 NLG door, I got a pretty large bump on my head but no cuts or bleeding thanks to the cap I was wearing.
A couple of weeks later a colleague had the same, unfortunately he wasn't wearing one and he got a pretty deep cut in his head which had to be treated at the airport medical post (disinfected, glued, etc..)

Caps do protect! Not as much as a helmet or "Tuffcap" but there is some protection  

And now back on topic I would say? A350!  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-03-13 04:00:53 and read 73327 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 40):
This is MSN001, MSN003 which is next at FAL is not in station 30 yet, it should have entered station 40 and should have it's wings, pylons and vertical/horizontal tail fitted.

Thanks for this information, and the rest of your very enlightening post. I have learned a thing or two from it.  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Pugman211
Posted 2013-03-13 13:43:17 and read 72366 times.

The wings of MSN002 were transported to Bremen today by Beluga. I only saw the R/H wing leave, but assume the L/H already went.  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-13 13:53:13 and read 72307 times.

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 47):
The wings of MSN002 were transported to Bremen today by Beluga. I only saw the R/H wing leave, but assume the L/H already went.

Great, the first MSN001 wing left for Bremen 5 Sept and was at FAL 2 months later, lets assume things at Bremen take 1.5 month now, then we have MSN002 getting it's wings in Station 40 early May, sounds plausible. We should see MSN003 being rolled from Station 40 to 30 end of this month IMO, the FAL heart is starting to beat  angel  Big grin .

[Edited 2013-03-13 13:56:34]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-13 14:04:49 and read 72114 times.

The first wing of MSN001 was completed on October 13, so it takes about a month to outfit them.

Quote:
then we have MSN002 getting it's wings in Station 40 early May, sounds plausible.

Yes, and assembly can already start without the wings in station 50. I expect MSN002 to start final assembly somewhere next month.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-13 14:57:58 and read 71831 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 49):
The first wing of MSN001 was completed on October 13, so it takes about a month to outfit them.

OK, I was looking at when wing join took place at FAL which was announced at 5 Nov. Question is if Bremen still does one wing at a time or if they now have 2 stations/teams that can do the work in parallel.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-03-13 19:19:58 and read 71331 times.

Why is the plane parked outside without the engines on? What can possibly be needed to do outside with no engines fitted?

Also I wonder: the A380 has this 3 parts ailerons that are supposed to stabilized the plane or something like this. Why didn't Airbus do that with the A350 if this thing was a success? Maybe not 3 parts as the plane is smaller but two maybe? Why didn't they go for that?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: CCA
Posted 2013-03-13 20:07:03 and read 71661 times.

Quoting art (Reply 44):
I would say a safer approach from what you say - you are less likely to avoid injury if you wear a helmet.

Completely off topic, but which driver would be more careful one with an airbag in the steering wheel or one with a sharp steel spike pointing out at you? Carelessness is often a result of perceived safety.

Great looking A/C looking forward to seeing the engines on shame about the cockpit colour that blue is hideous!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-13 21:30:23 and read 71697 times.

Quoting a380900 (Reply 51):
Why is the plane parked outside without the engines on? What can possibly be needed to do outside with no engines fitted?

It is covered in post in thread 7, engines are the single most expensive item on the production line and are therefore hung as late as possible, this is standard practice in the production world. The tests outside in station 18 is best taken from Aibus press release when rolling the aircraft there

"The aircraft has recently completed successfully a series of indoor ground tests including stability tests on ‘movable’ elements such as rudder, elevators, ailerons and wing spoilers and landing gears extraction/retraction. The next steps which will take place outdoors at Station 18 will include three planned families of tests: Fuel tanks testing – including levels, flows, sealing and internal fuel transfer functions; pressure testing of the fuselage; and radio equipment testing.

Quoting a380900 (Reply 51):
Also I wonder: the A380 has this 3 parts ailerons that are supposed to stabilized the plane or something like this. Why didn't Airbus do that with the A350 if this thing was a success? Maybe not 3 parts as the plane is smaller but two maybe? Why didn't they go for that?

The A350 has a 2 part aileron, inner for high/low speed and outer which is only active at low speed. They are sitting close together but one can see where they start and stop in this picture, about midway on the aileron area:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/Winglets_zpsa06ba84c.jpg

Also visible is the guiding vane for the outer end of the flap. This is needed so that the flap follows the bending of the wing otherwise the gap between then flap and the spoiler on it's cricitcal overside would vary. Those spoilers also produce the flaps aerodynamic slot by going sligthly down when the flap extends, once again it is important that the slot stayed the same along the flap as the wing bends, thus the flaps are supported on a number of points, not only the hinges.

[Edited 2013-03-13 21:45:03]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Pugman211
Posted 2013-03-13 22:20:17 and read 71523 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 53):
Those spoilers also produce the flaps aerodynamic slot by going slightly down when the flap extends,

The spoilers go down??? I've never seen that. Did you mean the ailerons??? I've seen them lower when the flap is extended, assumably to aid the airflow at the tip end of the wing.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-14 00:29:10 and read 71443 times.

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 54):
The spoilers go down??? I've never seen that.

The world is full of surprises, they do go down as they do on the 787. It is all about the new clever cooperation of the drop hinge flaps and the spoilers doing double duty (as spoilers and flap slot controllers). This is made possible by all movable surfaces on the new frames being controlled by FBW, ie any sort of movement can be commanded within their movement authority and in full cooperation with any other movable surface on the ship.

It has all been covered at lenght, first I thought I'd tell you to search up-thread, then I went and found where it was discussed, it was 7 threads ago  Wow! , Nov 2011:

www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/ge..._aviation/read.main/5289057/1/#236

Times flies and we have covered quite a bit in this thread  . In the discussion about the wing there was one thing that was confused, the wing loading. Actually the 787 and 350 wings have similar wingloadings, the problem was that the areas that were given were measured according to different standards, this is covered here:

Boeing Vs. Airbus Wing Design Philosophies (by ferpe Apr 16 2012 in Tech Ops)

I now use one standard for all discussions around wings, as Airbus is the more frequent publisher of the wing area I used their measurement principle and convert other to that. It really doesn't matter which one one use as long as one does not mix    .

[Edited 2013-03-14 00:34:28]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-15 01:24:45 and read 69909 times.

Bloomberg has a nice article about the iron bird (Aircraft Zero).

Quote:
Each night when the lights go out at Airbus SAS (EAD) in southern France, a nocturnal creature stirs. Inside a hangar at the Toulouse production campus, the planemaker’s “iron bird” performs all-night tests on hydraulic pumps, electrical cabling and mechanical parts draped across a loose layout of the A350 jetliner. When Airbus engineers return next morning, they sift through the data to fine-tune the new wide-body’s systems ahead of its maiden flight later this year.

......

While most of the A350’s innards are replicated on the iron bird, Airbus has complementary setups in Filton, England, for landing gear -- among the plane’s largest and most complex structures -- and in Bremen, Germany, for wing surfaces. Both sites can be connected to the Toulouse test-bed via computer.

 Wow!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-avoid-787-s-ruffled-feathers.html

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Pugman211
Posted 2013-03-15 02:52:07 and read 69587 times.

Ooops! I made a mistake, it was yesterday that the l/h of MSN 002 was transported to Bremen by Beluga.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2013-03-15 03:43:43 and read 69401 times.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
If anything breaks in this scenario a £3 safety helmet is totally useless. Their widespread use is just a result of our modern obsession with petty minded rules..............Airbus Health & Safety obviously take a sensible approach to this

I'm in this camp. Health and Safety can go too far sometimes and actually hinder the operation. EG. my mates in the cabin constantly complaining that they company issued oven gloves are actually too think to allow them to open the ovens. In addition they are not waterproof.........aircraft alleys can get very wet during service.......

Quoting KPDX (Reply 34):
They look far more "sharklet-y" than the A32x winglets.
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 33):
These wing-lets are absolutely gorgeous!

Spot on

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: flyglobal
Posted 2013-03-15 08:58:11 and read 68641 times.

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 58):
I'm in this camp. Health and Safety can go too far sometimes and actually hinder the operation. EG. my mates in the cabin constantly complaining that they company issued oven gloves are actually too think to allow them to open the ovens. In addition they are not waterproof.........aircraft alleys can get very wet during service.......



Safety rules can vary, depending on country specific habits and safety standards, legal, union standards or by 'best practice'.
One example from Car industries:

We once worked with a Japanese car company.
When in a proto shop, every time you had to go below the lifter and hence under the car, a helmet had to be used.
And tit was strictly enforced. They had a real paranoia behave the one or two times we forgot it, not being used to it.

In Germany (and our company), this is not a safety requirement, as we consider a lifter basically safe, as a lifter has a Lock function which needs to be 'locked in', when in use.

We wondered then as Germans and Americans (it was essentially a global project):
Just next to the lifter, people openly used Toxic fluids, where in Germany very severe safety rules exist regarding evaporation, fire protection, clothing and skin protection, gloves, training etc.):
Compared to the helmet under lifter issue we felt the fluid issue way more a safety and life threatening health risk - completely unbalanced in our view.

So everyone may react here based on the standards and sensitivities in his environments.

Same for Sexual harassment standards:
In US your job may be at risk if you mention a nice dress to your female college, while in Korea (I lived there), your female colleague may almost kill you and hate you if you didn't mention (positively) a new dress or haircut.

Different standards, different behaves - very difficult to globalize.

regards

Flyglobal

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: discovery1
Posted 2013-03-15 12:11:43 and read 68298 times.

So there seem to be rumors that Spirit is selling their Saint Nazaire plant:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/03/15/271...ch-media-reports-airbus-might.html

Here is a short story in french, not that I can read french:
http://votreargent.lexpress.fr/bours...a-saint-nazaire-en-vue_297481.html

I'm going to guess it was staffed with ex-airbus people, so I'm not entirely certain what this will do. Maybe the highest level management is just terrible and could use a change.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-15 12:14:41 and read 68254 times.

Well, things can only get better if Airbus buys the plant. Boeing did the same with the 787 aft section plant in Charleston.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-03-15 12:23:16 and read 68166 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 61):
Well, things can only get better if Airbus buys the plant. Boeing did the same with the 787 aft section plant in Charleston.

They did. But every transition has risks too. But I am sure they can manage that. It is striking though that both Boeing and Airbus have or might be buying plants from Spirit.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-03-15 12:24:52 and read 68225 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 62):
It is striking though that both Boeing and Airbus have or might be buying plants from Spirit.

Boeing actually sold their facilities at Wichita to Spirit.  






The Charleston acquisitions were from Vought and Alenia.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-03-15 13:04:16 and read 68045 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 63):
Boeing actually sold their facilities at Wichita to Spirit.  

The Charleston acquisitions were from Vought and Alenia.

Oops. Thanks for the correction. I must have mixed up the names and the plants somewhere along the line.  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: art
Posted 2013-03-15 13:04:45 and read 68023 times.

Quoting discovery1 (Reply 60):
So there seem to be rumors that Spirit is selling their Saint Nazaire plant:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/03/15/271...ch-media-reports-airbus-might.html

Here is a short story in french, not that I can read french:
http://votreargent.lexpress.fr/bours....html

The report in l'Express does mention an analyst saying Airbus were not happy with work done by Spirit.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-15 13:10:19 and read 68002 times.

Quoting discovery1 (Reply 60):
So there seem to be rumors that Spirit is selling their Saint Nazaire plant:

The Spirit plant in St Nazaire is rather small operation far away from the main Spirit activities in Kansas and North Carolina. Spirit is also a US company with what that entails in management and language culture. I always wondered how they would handle french personnel (which thinks and work differently) in this small enclave. On the other hand Airbus has a major site just on the other side of the airfield with a big workforce and management capability, all tuned to french conditions.

It might just be a very pragmatic solution for both that the delivery line is drawn ex Kinston South Carolina rather then the middle of the St Nazaire airfield.

If also the North Carolina operation switch to Airbus then there was major problem but if it stays with the St Nazaire activity it might be a god move for both.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-03-15 13:20:05 and read 67949 times.

Quoting art (Reply 65):
The report in l'Express does mention an analyst saying Airbus were not happy with work done by Spirit.

As I understand it, the Saint-Nazaire plant assembles the pieces of Section 15, but the pieces themselves are manufactured by Spirit in Kinston, North Carolina and then shipped to S-N. In addition to Section 15, Spirit also designs and builds the composite front wing spar and fixed leading edge for the A350 XWB at Kinston and then ships them to the UK.

So is Airbus not happy with how the workers at Saint-Nazaire are assembling the pieces arriving from Kinston? Or are they not happy with the production rate at Kinston?

In July 2012, A350 project manager Didier Evrard did mention issues with suppliers, but he did say they had been solved. At the same time, Spirit CEO Jeff Turner noted that they were working to improve the efficiency of A350 parts production.

[Edited 2013-03-15 13:36:47]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-15 13:30:43 and read 67969 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 67):
them to Brighton in the UK

It should be Prestwick Scotland, it is the old Scottish aviation/BAE site that Spirit has acquired ( I know cause I have flown one of their types  ) . Brighton is on the English south coast, quite a different environment then Glasgow  Wow! .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-03-15 13:36:28 and read 67852 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 68):

I was thinking Bristol, but must have had last night's Midsomer Murders still on the mind (the new DCI is from Brighton).

But yes, I see Spirit has their assembly facility in Prestwick. I take it the completed ship-sets then go to Bristol?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-15 15:45:39 and read 67617 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 69):
I take it the completed ship-sets then go to Bristol?

They go to Broughton where the production is, it is in north Wales. The wing design team and the GKN rear spar production is in Bristol (both descendants of the venerable Bristol aircraft aka BAC aka BAE aka A aka GKN for one team  )

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-03-15 17:17:36 and read 67351 times.

Excuse if it has been asked before, but the wing design was made at Filton or its German designed?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-16 12:45:20 and read 66414 times.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 71):
Excuse if it has been asked before, but the wing design was made at Filton or its German designed?

Both, the wing design (the cruise shape and pressure distribution, drag etc ) is done at Filton and the high lift competence center is at Bremen, at least that is how it is described in presentations and open literature. So the slat, droop nose, flap and droop aileron movements and shapes and their resultant lift and drag characteristics are all defined at Bremen. Where the structure is designed I am more unsure about but I would guess Filton (Bristol) for the overall wing like wingbox etc with a lot of input from Bremen for loads on the leading and trailing edges. All the high lift components should be Bremen.

Perhaps we have someone in the know that can complement.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-20 15:43:38 and read 64268 times.

There is a nice video clip from Hexcel about the CRFP parts on the A350 that the A350 site had in a post. The most interesting is perhaps that it has a complete rundown of where they are made:

http://wpc.1e6e.planetstream.net/001E6E/Hexcel.mp4

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2013-03-20 16:31:45 and read 64069 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 73):
There is a nice video clip from Hexcel about the CRFP parts on the A350 that the A350 site had in a post. The most interesting is perhaps that it has a complete rundown of where they are made:

One interesting fact is that the resin films are manufactured in the Hexcel factory at Duxford. This site developed and manufactured the aerolite resin that held the WW2 DH Mosquito together, probably one of the 1st composite aircraft albeit a wood composite.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-03-21 18:15:30 and read 62716 times.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 71):
Excuse if it has been asked before, but the wing design was made at Filton or its German designed?

IIRC UK has been responsible for all wing design on all Airbuses

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-25 14:54:33 and read 60921 times.

Me thinks it has been very quiet around A350, last post was over 3 days ago    (talk about us living in the info world, cracking up for 3 days silence  ).

Ponchos AVIA forum has this picture of the A350 rear galleys, he better fill in what we see  Wow! :



BTW, shouldn't station 18 be history soon??

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-25 15:02:26 and read 61025 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):
BTW, shouldn't station 18 be history soon??

Yes it's very quiet. MSN001 now doubled the A330 parking time at station 18.

However, we don't know for sure if she is still parked at station 18. Going from station 18 to the paint hanger is not very excited (expect for the people here on the forum), so maybe the next announcement will come after painting?

[Edited 2013-03-25 15:06:11]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: airmagnac
Posted 2013-03-25 15:26:54 and read 60825 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):
shouldn't station 18 be history soon??
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 77):
MSN001 now doubled the A330 parking time at station 18

Keep in mind that in addition to the standard testing performed on a series aircraft, there is a whole bunch of other things to do :
- test instrumentation calibration,
- gross calibration of various systems (radios, nav, air data, air conditioning valves, etc...),
- lots of specific ground tests to be run,
- some tests that need to be re-run to confirm a failure,
- previously failed tests that must be re-run following a solution,
- late changes due to problems found during tests (on MSN1 itself, or the armada of simulators)
and so on...

There may be a move tomorrow, but it may also only be in another few weeks !

"Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet." Or something like that  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 00:28:03 and read 60083 times.

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 78):
"Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet." Or something like that

I asked a spotter if he could have a look and he replied:

Quote:
she is currently in a hangar and will move for pait begining of april. today eveninig there is the msn 5000 ( Pamela), for structural test moving away from toulouse.


So painting next week. I'm not sure why MSN5000 would move away from TLS, maybe the static tests will begin?

[Edited 2013-03-26 00:31:31]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-26 02:12:55 and read 59672 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):

Thank you Ferpe, it's from an old flightglobal article
There as already been a lot of drama on the rear galley, the initial galley proposed by Airbus has been rejected by Airlines
The final galley might be different, or there might be other options

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-26 04:42:45 and read 59121 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 79):
So painting next week. I'm not sure why MSN5000 would move away from TLS

Good, then Station 18 is finished, after some checks (or paint preparations) we will have paint, then Station 20 to hang engines and last preparations before taxi tests. I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying    , seems like a lot of taxiing    .

Me thinks Enders and Bregier is carrying a lot of bags with sand in them   

Re MSN5000, if it takes from Dec to March to hook her up I can't believe they then would move her, I think he translated "ils demarrent" = "they start" wrongly somehow.

[Edited 2013-03-26 04:49:41]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-26 04:54:59 and read 59021 times.

Early April paint, lets say about a week? (They're doing an A380 in about 1,5/2 weeks if I'm correct)

A bit of negativity saying that she enters the paintshop on Friday (April 5th), plus a week makes April 12...
2 weeks for engines and tests...

Rollout ceremony last week April? Or maybe May 1st (nice date?)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: queb
Posted 2013-03-26 04:56:10 and read 59173 times.

engines installed

link (in french): http://midi-pyrenees.france3.fr/2013...teurs-sur-son-a350-xwb-223077.html

Posted 2013-03-26 05:03:01 and read 59060 times.

Quoting queb (Reply 83):
engines installed

NICE!!! Earlier than expected and they're apparently not following the production process they published. (Maybe that's only for series production)

So if paint is still early April we might see a rollout in 2/3 weeks? :O 

[Edited 2013-03-26 05:05:02]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 05:07:06 and read 59029 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Good, then Station 18 is finished

I agree.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
after some checks (or paint preparations) we will have paint

MSN001 is now in "a hanger", probably for some checks and/or paint preparations indeed.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
then Station 20 to hang engines and last preparations before taxi tests

Engines can be attached within a day. Let's say they take a week for it because it's a new airplane and they want to make sure everything is correct etc. Also done at station 20 is cockipit furnishing. The cockpit picture of October 2012 has shown us that the cockip is as good as complete, I guess they need only to install 2 more chairs and a closet maybe?

1 week for painting and 2 - 3 weeks for station 20 worst case = roll out somewhere in the second half of April.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying    , seems like a lot of taxiing    .

Now that's the only thing I don't want to put my money on  It took the first A380 about 3 months from roll out (January 2005) to first flight (April 2005), and even Bombardier feels they need about 2 months to prepare the first flight. Extensive ground testing can take a while.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 05:08:15 and read 59032 times.

Quoting queb (Reply 83):
engines installed

Wait, wut?? Engine attachment should be done after painting.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
MSN001 is now in "a hanger", probably for some checks and/or paint preparations indeed.

Now we know, "that hanger" is station 20 Big grin

[Edited 2013-03-26 05:12:12]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-26 05:12:29 and read 58987 times.

No need to paint if they want to fly before 787 battery flight test  

Good news indeed and nice pics

Painting is a matter of day isn't it ?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 05:15:00 and read 58946 times.

It's a nice surprise indeed; so they did the outdoor ground tests and installed the engines all in 1 month. Things are progressing well.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-26 05:31:45 and read 58858 times.

And then here Station 20 today, first roll engine to pylon:



Then hang it  :

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-03-26 05:32:33 and read 58790 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
Engines can be attached within a day. Let's say they take a week for it because it's a new airplane and they want to make sure everything is correct etc.

According to the link they started with the night shift and had them both hung by lunch time..

Maybe time for us to start looking at EU leaders diaries to see when they have a window to come watch circ du soleil unveil an aircraft in TLS.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Good, then Station 18 is finished, after some checks (or paint preparations) we will have paint, then Station 20 to hang engines and last preparations before taxi tests. I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying , seems like a lot of taxiing .

Me thinks Enders and Bregier is carrying a lot of bags with sand in them

No one wants to jinx it, but I also find it hard to see what they will find to do on the ground for 10 weeks..

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-26 05:38:40 and read 58732 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 90):

Maybe time for us to start looking at EU leaders diaries to see when they have a window to come watch circ du soleil unveil an aircraft in TLS.

Haha indeed, Especially Hollande (France), Merkel (Germany), Cameron (UK) and Rajoy (Spain)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-26 05:41:39 and read 58755 times.

Waiting for the euro to go below 1.25 € / 1 $ ?  

They might need to finish power on
Finally, the engine seats rather low above the ground !

Ferpe this T XWB was marketed as 10% SFC below GE90 (GE9094 I guess)
GE90X will be 10% below GE90 (GE90-115   )

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-26 06:04:37 and read 58589 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 92):
Finally, the engine seats rather low above the ground !

According to: http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...ch_data/AC/Airbus-ACA350-Jan13.pdf

At Maximum Ramp Mass the engine ground clearance is between 74cm (forward CG) and 75cm (aft CG)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: queb
Posted 2013-03-26 06:14:41 and read 58569 times.

From Airbus website:

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1364299415_A350_XWB_Trent_engine_mounting1.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1364299418_A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting4.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1364299417_A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting2.jpg

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-26 06:16:36 and read 58457 times.

Yes I know
I've done some comparison in december (in french ; key word for google : garde au sol A330 A350 777)
It's the same ground clearance as 777-300ER

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: queb
Posted 2013-03-26 06:17:51 and read 58532 times.

APU is also installed

Airbus installs Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines and Honeywell APU on A350 XWB MSN001

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honeywell-apu-on-a350-xwb-msn001/

[Edited 2013-03-26 06:18:55]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-26 06:18:51 and read 58512 times.

I'm surprised to read that they also just installed the APU.

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honeywell-apu-on-a350-xwb-msn001/

I thought that it was installed at station 30.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 06:19:13 and read 58695 times.

Quoting queb (Reply 94):
From Airbus website:

Excelent   

The high-res pictures are available at http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/
Now we can zoom in a bit 

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: overcast
Posted 2013-03-26 06:24:22 and read 58504 times.

Quoting queb (Reply 96):

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honeywell-apu-on-a350-xwb-msn001/

From this Press release it doesn't sound like they are planning a big rollout ceremony. Maybe the focus is on First Flight, Flight Test and Delivery.

That would make a refreshing change.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-26 06:27:30 and read 58610 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 92):
Ferpe this T XWB was marketed as 10% SFC below GE90 (GE9094 I guess)
GE90X will be 10% below GE90 (GE90-115 )

That is right, I have them as best value (at about FL370) GE90-94 0.57 (PIPed a bit), the GE90-115 at 0.55, TXWB 0.52 and the GE9X 0.495

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-03-26 06:38:10 and read 58572 times.

Quoting overcast (Reply 99):
From this Press release it doesn't sound like they are planning a big rollout ceremony. Maybe the focus is on First Flight, Flight Test and Delivery.

That would make a refreshing change.

I would imagine that the usual suspects..

Quoting starbucks (Reply 91):
Especially Hollande (France), Merkel (Germany), Cameron (UK) and Rajoy (Spain)

Will demand some face time with a successful pan European project, but if Airbus really want a grand unveiling why not do it at Le Bourget? Now wouldn't that be something..

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2013-03-26 07:10:00 and read 58730 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 100):
That is right, I have them as best value (at about FL370) GE90-94 0.57 (PIPed a bit), the GE90-115 at 0.55, TXWB 0.52 and the GE9X 0.495

Do these numbers actually make sense in real life? The numbers don't stand still and they are all based on different years. Today's TXWB will not be the same as the TXWB delivered in the same year as the GE9X will be delivered and also the GE90-115 delivered in 2018 will be better than GE90-115 delivered today.

The best example is the A330: no major new wing, no new engines, no special materials and still today's A330 is enormously better than the first one 20 years ago or even thous built 10 years ago. Airbus actually indicated that continuous improvements is way forward rather than brand new designs or big overhauls as the risks and the costs associated with them are not worth the returns they give.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 07:30:07 and read 58721 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Re MSN5000, if it takes from Dec to March to hook her up I can't believe they then would move her, I think he translated "ils demarrent" = "they start" wrongly somehow.

That must be it. Static tests would start in March.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 90):
According to the link they started with the night shift and had them both hung by lunch time..

Ignore my post, I wrote it before queb shared the link. The engines were prepared in advance so the only thing the team has to do is attaching them   

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-26 07:42:43 and read 58638 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 103):

And to put nacelle fairing on

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-03-26 07:46:55 and read 58688 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 103):
Ignore my post, I wrote it before queb shared the link. The engines were prepared in advance so the only thing the team has to do is attaching them
Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 104):
And to put nacelle fairing on

Looking at the pictures most of the belly fairing was also removed, any idea why this would be?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-26 08:05:32 and read 58657 times.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 102):
Do these numbers actually make sense in real life? The numbers don't stand still and they are all based on different years. Today's TXWB will not be the same as the TXWB delivered in the same year as the GE9X will be delivered and also the GE90-115 delivered in 2018 will be better than GE90-115 delivered today.

Let me first say these are my estimates based on a number of cross-checks, it can be close but also some way off. And yes the engines get better over time, the GE90 values are those I believe they have today when new from factory (they deteriorate 2-4 % before overhaul) and they have had numerous upgrades, not all for performance. The TXWB is not at it's target value yet (according to RR and A) but both say it will be by EIS and the GE9X fly on ppt and will be in the 0.49-0.5 region by 2019. Where the TXWB will be by 2020 when the GE9X flies one can speculate over.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-26 08:11:52 and read 58654 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 105):
Looking at the pictures most of the belly fairing was also removed, any idea why this would be?

They are working on numerous places on the frame, the fairing of the fin base is also taken off. Re wing-root one can speculate that they have test points there for a number of electrical, hydraulic, air and fuel lines to check that all the connections at the engine side turned out OK, you need to verify that somehow and I would not do it in the pylon, I would prefer a longer run before I apply the check means.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 08:41:16 and read 58506 times.

Quoting starbucks (Reply 84):
So if paint is still early April we might see a rollout in 2/3 weeks? :O

MSN001 is in station 20 so painting is now the last assembly step. This changes the gambling, I can see her rolling out in 2 weeks from now.

Before MSN001 entered final assembly, Aviation Week reported that the roll out date was set for April 2013. It seems to look like they will meet the target. I'm still surprised about the smooth assembly process, as far as we know there were no hiccups.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-03-26 08:45:06 and read 58532 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 107):

I guess that they are still building her   Its quite funny to see plug connectors hanging from the pylons ready for connection to the TXWB, we truly are witnessing the birth of an airplane.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2013-03-26 09:18:04 and read 58293 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 108):
Before MSN001 entered final assembly, Aviation Week reported that the roll out date was set for April 2013. It seems to look like they will meet the target. I'm still surprised about the smooth assembly process, as far as we know there were no hiccups.

On the back of the 787 debacle and the A380 delays, I think Airbus are very keen to give the impression of everything running smoothly. Let's hope they have set themselves conservative targets so it won't end up going down the same route. Airlines are becoming increasingly difficult to impress nowadays!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-26 09:41:18 and read 58131 times.

Quoting overcast (Reply 99):
From this Press release it doesn't sound like they are planning a big rollout ceremony. Maybe the focus is on First Flight, Flight Test and Delivery.

What is your definition of a big ceremony? The A380 ceremony was done in a simple hanger.

Just put some seats and scaffolding in the paint hanger, invite the press, customers and some government people and you're done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UHJ5OZIzOc

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-26 09:47:09 and read 58067 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 111):
What is your definition of a big ceremony? The A380 ceremony was done in a simple hanger.

I would say/hope for something like the A350 FAL inauguration, complete with livestream, social media coverage, etc. 

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: overcast
Posted 2013-03-26 09:56:17 and read 57900 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 111):
What is your definition of a big ceremony? The A380 ceremony was done in a simple hanger.

By big I mean having the Political Big Wigs(Hollande, Merkel etc) attend, and having the light show etc that we had with the A380.

I'd hope for a more low key thing. Just get the thing painted and ready for the flight test crew to go fly.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-03-26 11:35:07 and read 57389 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 105):
Looking at the pictures most of the belly fairing was also removed, any idea why this would be?

They are taking out the Home depot fasteners      

Sorry could not resist...

I really wish Airbus would surprise everyone with a new livery paint.... the blue one is getting boring...

TRB

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: PW100
Posted 2013-03-26 11:56:45 and read 57189 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying , seems like a lot of taxiing .

Me thinks Enders and Bregier is carrying a lot of bags with sand in them
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
It took the first A380 about 3 months from roll out (January 2005) to first flight (April 2005), and even Bombardier feels they need about 2 months to prepare the first flight. Extensive ground testing can take a while

And then to think that it took the A320 just eight (!!) days from roll out to first flight . . .

Roll out: 14 Feb 1987
First flight : 22 Feb 1987
JAA certification: 26 Feb 1988


PW100

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: astuteman
Posted 2013-03-26 12:07:05 and read 57271 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 106):
The TXWB is not at it's target value yet (according to RR and A)

Do you have any links to this Ferpe? I was under the impression that the TXWB was performing well within target

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/AW_02_18_2013_p34-548404.xml

Quote:
Rolls says initial results from testing of the Trent XWB-84s delivered to Toulouse for installation on the first A350-900 show fuel-burn performance meets specification and is slightly improved over that seen on earlier flight-test units.

So i'll call you on that one..  

Rgds

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-03-26 14:09:09 and read 56504 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 116):
Do you have any links to this Ferpe? I was under the impression that the TXWB was performing well within target

That was my impression as well. No doubt Ferpe will find something to back that up. He is such an asset to this wonderful Internet-forum.  .

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):
Me thinks it has been very quiet around A350, last post was over 3 days ago (talk about us living in the info world, cracking up for 3 days silence  ).

Be careful what you wish for Ferpe. Suddenly lots of things are happening in a positive way.  .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-26 14:59:23 and read 56257 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 116):
So i'll call you on that one..

Sure , you cut the quote short of the important next sentence:

Rolls Trent XWB program director Chris Young says, “We are well on track to meet our targets for entry into service. So it is looking good on fuel consumption.”

which happens to be the same sentence that Fabrice Bregier put forward at Global Investor forum Dec 2012. On a question from the audience re his TXWB "good performance" on slide 9 he said that the TSFC was not quite there for the flight test engines but would be for EIS, check out the audio from that session.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-26 15:22:05 and read 56033 times.

Being on spec at EIS is no smal feat compared to the 787...
I suspect it implies :
- weight creep as been limited (I feel that part of the engine problem on the 787 is the increase weight that is increasing SFC and fuel burn)
- no over promise from RR to Airbus or no foolish requirement by Airbus to RR

Sounds good isn't it ?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-26 15:27:00 and read 56003 times.

And what about MSN3, and others ?
First flight on time is one thing, but full fleet of test aircrafts on time is necessary for a non delayed EIS

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: astuteman
Posted 2013-03-26 16:39:29 and read 55756 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 118):
On a question from the audience re his TXWB "good performance" on slide 9 he said that the TSFC was not quite there for the flight test engines but would be for EIS, check out the audio from that session.

Which says the same as ....

Quoting astuteman (Reply 116):
Rolls says initial results from testing of the Trent XWB-84s delivered to Toulouse for installation on the first A350-900 show fuel-burn performance meets specification and is slightly improved over that seen on earlier flight-test units.

i.e. the ones that have been flight testing on the A380 test-bed may not hav been quite there, but the ones being installed on the very first A350-900 to fly will meet spec.

"First A350-900" and "fuel burn performance meets specification" in the same sentence. I'm not sure what else there is to be important..  

Either way, by 2019 the TXWB will have moved a long way on from where it is on MSN001, without question   

Rgds

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2013-03-26 18:06:29 and read 55457 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 121):
Either way, by 2019 the TXWB will have moved a long way on from where it is on MSN001, without question

Which in engine performance terms means usually means a few percent.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-27 01:14:07 and read 54880 times.

A video of the engine installation on MSN001:

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressroom/broadcastroom/ (click "Enter the Broadcast room").

[Edited 2013-03-27 01:15:06]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: parapente
Posted 2013-03-27 03:02:06 and read 54312 times.

Reply 116 - from article - 25% improvement seat fuel burn on a 773er? Thats a huge amount - find that hard to believe really. I could see it on comparison against the older 772er but not the 773er. However they have said it not me. They will sell like hot cakes if that is prooved to be the case in the air.

I guess the reason Rolls has hit target so easily is jusy how much they have learned and are learning from the Trent 1000 programme. I think the final PIPed version is about to come out (I forget it's name) which finally meets/excedes the origonal targets.

All of this must have found it's way into what is a scaled up version really (the XWB).


On an aside with the XWB being such a good engine (it appears) it may increase pressure to do the inevitable and put it on the 380. Not only would it create an enormous step in efficiency it would bring the 2 aircraft families together. That has to be appealing to long distance airline carriers I would have thought.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: na
Posted 2013-03-27 03:05:56 and read 54292 times.

Wings and tail fine, but the nose of this plane is truly ugly, the worst "face" of any widebody built so far.

[Edited 2013-03-27 03:20:56]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-03-27 03:16:07 and read 54273 times.

Quoting parapente (Reply 124):
from article - 25% improvement seat fuel burn on a 773er? Thats a huge amount - find that hard to believe really.

Not really. And that number has come from Airbus since they are marketing the A350-1000.

Technology has moved on quite a long way since the B77W was designed and build. Of course incremental improvements further bettered her performance, but it is way off to compete with the A350-1000. For that reason the B777-8X/9X are under development.

And the A350-1000 is a lot lighter and more aerodynamically shaped then the B77W. Thanks to new materials and designing and construction technologies being used in the airplane. Even with the same level of engine technology only these basic improved qualities compared to the B77W would make the A350-1000 easy 15% better in fuel consumption on a per seat basis. Add the latest in engine technology (which also do not need to generate the awesome power of the GE90-115B engines) I can easily see that 25% mark being achieved.

Even the bigger B777-9X will only need 100,000 lbs of thrust compared to the 115,000 lbs of thrust the current B77W requires. So I don't doubt that percentage number from Airbus at all. Especially if all is already up to spec according to the official statements made by Airbus and Rolls-Royce.  .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: nomadd22
Posted 2013-03-27 04:26:34 and read 54251 times.

I know English isn't the only language in play here, but target and specification aren't the same thing.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-27 05:48:05 and read 53859 times.

On Twitter:

Quoting @FlightDKM:

#Airbus coughs up a shot of the #A350 starboard engine fit, promising a photo of the whole aircraft tomorrow: http://twitpic.com/cerhtz

Maybe change from Station 20 to paint? Or maybe just a picture of the whole aircraft in the hangar...  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-27 06:14:39 and read 53690 times.

Quoting starbucks (Reply 128):
Or maybe just a picture of the whole aircraft in the hangar...

That makes no sense, I think they will pull the a/c outside for a photoshoot.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-27 06:26:35 and read 53729 times.

Quoting starbucks (Reply 128):
Maybe change from Station 20 to paint? Or maybe just a picture of the whole aircraft in the hangar...

We will see, me thinks transport to painting    .

The video was really nice, it shows things that one does not see otherwise, here a bit of details:

Static discharge wicks on THE sharklets (the one and only  ) :

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting526032013_zps6fa15cd7.jpg


The pylon ready for engine mounting, clear to see the flap drop hinge linkage (inner flap, outer hinge) and the busy front and trailing edge areas with the slat torque shaft drive, also the engine rear mount:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting6_zps033d8e62.jpg


Then the proof that we are in the Station 20 hall of the 330 line, HAL 332 in the background. Also APU doors open + hatch and ladder to rear cone for APU mounting work. Also the very flat sides of the rear cone, makes away with shrouds on the VTP. On right picture, the ingenious CART-Jacks that lift the whole TXWB trolley, guess it can micro-maneuver in all 4 directions also to get engine mountings lined up:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting926032013_zps0d67bda8.jpg


Then the engine mountings, the engine side shackle is there for the aft mount but still missing on the fan case mount, in the middle the bleed air pre-cooler duct where the cooling air taken from the bypass is cooling the engine bleed air:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting826032013_zps58b94e42.jpg

[Edited 2013-03-27 06:58:14]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: astuteman
Posted 2013-03-27 09:17:12 and read 53074 times.

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 127):
I know English isn't the only language in play here, but target and specification aren't the same thing.

I would have thought that by definition the specification was the first target.

If you had suggested that "specification" and "guarantees" were different things, I would readily agree  

Rgds

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-03-27 10:15:58 and read 52802 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 123):

A video of the engine installation on MSN001:

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressroom/broadcastroom/ (click "Enter the Broadcast room").

Very interesting video, I guess from Airbuses point of view if things are going well you might as well show it, in comparison the 787 was built as a black project.

For geek spotter points I offer that the engine delivery trolley is marked A350/ T1700 so it looks like RR internally have retained the Trent 1700 name that was to have powered the original A350.

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 127):
I know English isn't the only language in play here, but target and specification aren't the same thing.


They absolutely can be the same thing.

[Edited 2013-03-27 10:19:15]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-27 10:18:51 and read 52827 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 132):
For geek spotter points

  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-27 11:05:54 and read 52627 times.

The Bourget organisers today confirmed that the A350 (and Bombardier Cseries) will not be present at the Paris air show.

[Edited 2013-03-27 11:33:31]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Heavierthanair
Posted 2013-03-27 11:20:26 and read 52527 times.

G´day

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 134):
The Bourget organisers today confirmed that the A350 (and Bombardier Cseries) will not be at the Paris airshow.

Presumably Airbus would have no problem getting the A 350 into the Le Bourget show at half an hours notice. Same is probably true for Bombardier.   

These shows live from the exhibitors, not the other way round  


Cheers

Peter

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-27 11:24:05 and read 52578 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Re MSN5000, if it takes from Dec to March to hook her up I can't believe they then would move her, I think he translated "ils demarrent" = "they start" wrongly somehow.

It was MSN5001! The EF1 nose section has now arrived in Toulouse.







Pictures uploaded by http://www.flickr.com/photos/florent_peraudeau

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-27 12:47:42 and read 52204 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 136):
The EF1 nose section has now arrived in Toulouse.

Great network of spotters you have    , this makes 100% sense, EF1 shall be tested in TLS, must hae gone from St Nazaire to TLS by road. I seem to remeber the other section have been delivered , at least the wing+center section (EF2) to Munich. The aft body (EF3) stays at Hamburg, difficult for the official .net oversight organization = us    to check  :

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350staticandfatiguetestunitsjpg_zps88786509.png

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-27 12:54:05 and read 52052 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 137):
I seem to remeber the other section have been delivered , at least the wing+center section (EF2) to Munich.

Yes, the EF2 center fusulage section was spotted in St Nazaire on March 6 and should be in Munich by now.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 137):
The aft body (EF3) stays at Hamburg, difficult for the official .net oversight organization = us    to check  :

Yeah, I'm afraid we will never see the EF3 section.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Pihero
Posted 2013-03-27 13:39:21 and read 51837 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 130):
Then the engine mountings, the engine side shackle is there for the aft mount but still missing on the fan case mount,

Never cease to maze me how fragile looking these mountings are.
Great work ,everybody.
I'm looking forward to the roll out - to see her in all her glory ! - but it will be a sad day as it will see the end of the greatest thread on A.net ever...
Unless we'll keep on monitoring the flight tests !?!?
... and the first deliveries ?!?!?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-27 13:43:36 and read 51829 times.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 139):
see the end of the greatest thread on A.net ever...
Unless we'll keep on monitoring the flight tests !?!?
... and the first deliveries ?!?!?

The end? This is just the beginning  We have to track assembly of MSN 2, 3, 4 & 5 too. And then the first customer frame (MSN 6). And of course the flight testing itself.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-03-27 13:55:54 and read 51741 times.

Helas Pihero

But you must have forgotten the A350-1000, the -800
The NEO's
And maybe Airbus will launch other products... A310/300 Replacement, A380-900
And I will be happy to see such a thread for the 777X

It seems that finally the A350 is ahead of the CS100 (speaking of the 1 st plane only), looks like power on is more advanced on the Airbus

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-03-27 14:31:20 and read 51568 times.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 139):
I'm looking forward to the roll out - to see her in all her glory ! - but it will be a sad day as it will see the end of the greatest thread on A.net ever...

The A350-1000 has EIS 2017 (if it is on time    ...) so we will go on for a while ...   

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Pihero
Posted 2013-03-27 14:32:15 and read 51568 times.

     
Ok ! Ok !
I surrender.
T'was also a bit provocative... and, yes we still have so much to share.
Can't wait to see her out of the painting room !

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: PW100
Posted 2013-03-27 14:54:31 and read 51424 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 126):
Even the bigger B777-9X will only need 100,000 lbs of thrust compared to the 115,000 lbs of thrust the current B77W requires

Not to go too far off topic, but I'm firmly in the "believe it when I see it - camp " if a pre-2020 EIS 8500nm-405 pax (no cargo) 777-9X will make it with just 100,000 lbs thrust. I can easily see that crawl up to at least 105.000 lbs. In fact, I think even that would be monumental achievement for Boeing. I'll be happy to be surprised though . . . kudos to the engineers!

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 132):
For geek spotter points I offer that the engine delivery trolley is marked A350/ T1700 so it looks like RR internally have retained the Trent 1700 name that was to have powered the original A350

Great catch! Surprising though, as even EASA considers it to be a Trent XWB:
Official models:
Trent XWB-75
Trent XWB-79
Trent XWB-79B
Trent XWB-84
http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...XWB_Series_engines-01-07022013.pdf

PW100

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-03-27 15:08:13 and read 51286 times.

They keep this up, we might have rollout really soon!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-27 15:20:28 and read 51308 times.

Yes but when will that be   I wouldn't be surprised if we won't see any pictures of the painted aircraft before the unveiling ceremony.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-03-27 15:47:31 and read 51207 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 146):
I wouldn't be surprised if we won't see any pictures of the painted aircraft before the unveiling ceremony.

Who knows? Someone might be able to sneak a photo or 2    

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2013-03-27 16:36:30 and read 51010 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 131):
I would have thought that by definition the specification was the first target.

If you had suggested that "specification" and "guarantees" were different things, I would readily agree  

Rgds

To me "specification" and "guarantees" should be the same with the specification being the minimum numbers which should be achieved, while the targets are more ambitious of where you would like it to be. BTW only talking about performance specifications here. For stuff like dimensional specifications there are only specifications and no targets.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: astuteman
Posted 2013-03-27 22:37:05 and read 50622 times.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 148):
To me "specification" and "guarantees" should be the same with the specification being the minimum numbers which should be achieved, while the targets are more ambitious of where you would like it to be

Surely "specification" means exactly what it says - i.e. the "specification" SFC required to make the "specification" range/payload - i.e. what Airbus publish as the "spec".

We've had arguments on here ad-nauseam about whether meeting guarantees means meeting spec. The concensus has usually been that the OEM keeps a percent or two up their sleeves between guarantee and specification, sensibly so.

So when we discuss the relationship between the performance of the Trent XWB and another engine, say, the GE9X, then I'm comfortable that we will be comparing "specification" with "specification".

Anything other than this comparison IMO is a distortion, and on here that would usually be aimed at a particular agenda.

Rgds

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-03-27 23:32:21 and read 50554 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 149):
The concensus has usually been that the OEM keeps a percent or two up their sleeves between guarantee and specification, sensibly so.

Exactly what I would expect, especially in the early stages of a program when you have no real-World data. Even with today's very accurate modelling, OEMs do sometimes initially miss targets.

With the first batch of 787s significantly overweight and with engines not yet to 'spec', Boeing was very careful to note that the plane was still meeting its range and fuel consumption guarantees. Clearly, those guarantees were set lower than the design specs.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: knoxibus
Posted 2013-03-28 06:45:17 and read 49604 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 130):
Then the proof that we are in the Station 20 hall of the 330 line, HAL 332 in the background.

Actually no, the aircraft is in C63, it is a "working party" hangar close to the Gramont 2 (cabin fitting) stations 20 of the A330/A340 FAL.

This hangar is used for some outstanding works, or special testing, such as our dear MSN001. I remember seeing the first A380 for SIA in there being tested for EMI/EMC (we could not get too close).

Airbus has several such hangars around to perform special or extra work on aircraft in order not to clog up the normal FALs.

The HAL A332 must have been in there for some similar reasons.

Another example is for when A340 MSN1 flight test aircraft was being fitted with A350 acoustic panels, etc...

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-03-28 07:34:29 and read 50246 times.

Wondering if we will see that "promised" picture.. :P

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: planesmart
Posted 2013-03-28 12:59:53 and read 49406 times.

Guarantees are always set below specifications. The former costs the manufacturer - the latter is best endeavours with no financial responsibility.

The former is a confidential part of the contract negotiations (not all customers receive the same guarantees, or the same financial consequences), while the latter is for the public and competition.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Semaex
Posted 2013-03-29 04:44:57 and read 48414 times.

Question:
I've been driving by car to FRA yesterday while totally by chance I encountered a front section of an airliner loaded onto a truck. It clearly had 6 windows and obviously was packed in white sheets, so I couldn't identify it properly. Could it have been the A350?
Time was around 4pm at the intersection of A3/A66, the truck coming from the north going to the east.

Might also just be a boring sim mockup, but i hope not  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-03-29 08:59:03 and read 47707 times.

Weren't we supposed to have a pic of the finished plane today?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: a380heavy
Posted 2013-03-29 09:36:10 and read 47639 times.

I thought there was going to be a picture yesterday!

Can't wait to see the complete A350 in the open air, and looking forward even more to some pretty awesome wing flex when she gets some air beneath her tyres!

Come on guys give her some fresh air!   

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-29 13:58:11 and read 47234 times.

Unfortunately, the only picture Airbus has shared today is from a big A359 model with a chocolate bunny on it.

http://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/882505_634092859940335_1521015584_o.jpg

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Pihero
Posted 2013-03-29 14:05:53 and read 47141 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 157):
Unfortunately, the only picture Airbus has shared today is from a big A359 model with a chocolate bunny on it.

But an Easter bunny, no less  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: autothrust
Posted 2013-03-30 06:51:49 and read 46190 times.

I could be wong, but it seems the TrentXWB reaching new heights in terms of complexity. If i compare the ducts and pipes on older Trents, this looks way more complex.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-03-30 08:41:58 and read 45864 times.

Quoting autothrust (Reply 159):
I could be wong, but it seems the TrentXWB reaching new heights in terms of complexity. If i compare the ducts and pipes on older Trents, this looks way more complex.

Well the XWB is the first Trent to have two Intermediate Pressure Turbines so that might account for some of the additional plumbing.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-03-30 09:49:06 and read 45664 times.

Quoting autothrust (Reply 159):
I could be wong, but it seems the TrentXWB reaching new heights in terms of complexity. If i compare the ducts and pipes on older Trents, this looks way more complex.

The TXWB as we see it in the pictures above is packed full of test sensors, production engines will look a lot less complex.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: autothrust
Posted 2013-04-02 00:34:57 and read 43997 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 160):
Well the XWB is the first Trent to have two Intermediate Pressure Turbines so that might account for some of the additional plumbing.
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 161):
The TXWB as we see it in the pictures above is packed full of test sensors, production engines will look a lot less complex.

Many thanks for the answers. I'll will be curious to what the final TrentXWB will look like.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: nomadd22
Posted 2013-04-02 04:52:00 and read 43251 times.

A day late, but Airbus seems to have settled on an eco friendly power system.
I can't see any reason it wouldn't work.


http://www.aero-news.net/subscribe.c...2aa581-ae2d-4bb1-91a3-277d7d9b13bb

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: a380900
Posted 2013-04-02 17:12:02 and read 41944 times.

So where is the pic??? It feels like we're gonna have to wait for some big show in a hangar before we see the plane completed. I kind of remember it was the same for the A380. Oh well...

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-03 02:40:24 and read 41312 times.

While we wait for the bride (in full clothing it might be  ) here a nice clip from the 3rd TV channel in France which were present when the second engine went onto MSN001. It is from Ponchos AVIA forum (go up to post 258 and play the video ) :

http://avia.superforum.fr/t1358p240-airbus-a350xwb#36201

For those that understand french the last comment from the reporter is interesting "the aircraft will fly in the early summer"  Wow! . The guy on the mid level that answered the question from this reporter did not stay 100% with the A party line "in the summer", he added his own little qualification   . This is how you get reliable non party-line info, ask the middle managers when the big bosses are gone  .

So is early summer before 17th of June    .......

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-03 02:57:57 and read 41185 times.

We've now seen multiple hints of MSN001 flying before the Paris air show, first the RR guy and now that guy in the video. I'm still thinking that Airbus is internally aiming to fly the A350 before the air show, but keeping a low profile so they cannot get lynched if they miss the target. One lesson learned from the A380 and B787 programs is that you do not want to make too much promises.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-04-04 05:58:43 and read 39354 times.

If we could expect a rollout this week I guess we should have seen some sort of announcement on the Airbus site, at least for a lvestream I would say, with the FAL inauguration Airbus announced one a couple of days in advance.

I'm putting my hopes on next week some days after the Mobile ground breaking ceremony....

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-04 13:05:23 and read 38486 times.

There is a nice story at the A350 blogs site about Airbus contracting the Berlin company PACE to supply a customized version of their Cabin layout tool Pacelab Cabin 7 as the A350 XWB Configurator.

It has all the A350 catalog items of interior elements already preloaded with all their design rules and constrains:

http://www.bloga350.blogspot.fr/

For those who want to understand how a cabin is designed at the project level in order to understand how many pax it will take, what it will weigh etc, take look at this video:

http://www.pace.de/products/cabin-configuration/pacelab-cabin-7.html

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Phen
Posted 2013-04-06 09:02:20 and read 37105 times.

Apologies if this question has been asked before - I did a search but could not find an answer. With the new LED lights now in use on new aircraft such as the 787 / 747-8 (and presumably all new Airbus aircraft), does anybody how will Airbus achieve the trademark double wingtip strobe flash with LEDs? Or perhaps they will abandon it? Looking at the 787, if you imagine two wingtip strobe flashes, it would probably result in a very long flash cycle - possibly too long?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-08 03:12:42 and read 35346 times.

Quoting Phen (Reply 169):
Apologies if this question has been asked before - I did a search but could not find an answer. With the new LED lights now in use on new aircraft such as the 787 / 747-8 (and presumably all new Airbus aircraft), does anybody how will Airbus achieve the trademark double wingtip strobe flash with LEDs?

This question has not been asked before. I don't think we know if they will keep the double flash, perhaps someone is in the know.

From a technical point of view there should be no problem in realizing it (IMO) so they might keep it.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: a380heavy
Posted 2013-04-08 05:26:43 and read 34771 times.

Two weeks since the Trents were fitted and still no sneaky peek of the finished bird! - the suspense is killing me!

Are there really no pictures yet, even spy shots?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-04-08 05:40:43 and read 34745 times.

Quoting a380heavy (Reply 171):
Two weeks since the Trents were fitted and still no sneaky peek of the finished bird! - the suspense is killing me!

Me too!!

Maybe 2nd half of this week?? when all the Airbus top-bobo's have returned from todays Mobile event.

(purely speculative)
This page from a KLM A330 acceptation team member mentions "Festivities" on the 12th which could delay the delivery.... A350 rollout maybe??  http://www.qsl.net/pa0sny/SNY-AM.html

[Edited 2013-04-08 05:51:35]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: bigsmile
Posted 2013-04-08 09:02:02 and read 34137 times.

There might be some movements later this week.
Could that be MSN003 going to Station 30 and MSN001 going to paint..............?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: a380heavy
Posted 2013-04-08 09:36:33 and read 33925 times.

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 173):
Could that be MSN003 going to Station 30 and MSN001 going to paint..............?


Isn't it MSN0001 that has been in for paint for the last 2 weeks?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-08 09:39:37 and read 33995 times.

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 173):
Could that be MSN003 going to Station 30 and MSN001 going to paint..............?

Could you be right ???       thanks Bigsmile, that means MSN003 is tracking 5 months behind MSN001 which is to long, the flight test plan which we have shows it should have been more like 2 months to make the flight test plan to complete in 12 months:



Admit-tingly this plan is old (3 years to be exact http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-testing-by-three-months-340991/) but there is nothing that speaks against it still being valid. I would expect the FAL stations to be quicker so perhaps one can claw back 1-2 months, we will see.

Re MSN001 seems there was a few tests to make after the engines went on.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: starbucks
Posted 2013-04-08 09:41:57 and read 33944 times.

Quoting a380heavy (Reply 174):
Isn't it MSN0001 that has been in for paint for the last 2 weeks?

AFAIK it was never confirmed that MSN001 was transferred to painting... But I have to say, 2 weeks of radiosilence after engine attachment is long for some testing with the engines (even for a first frame I'd say...)

Maybe they transferred her during the night no one was allowed to take pictures?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-08 10:18:34 and read 34490 times.

Wait a minute people.

It was reported by a local spotter that MSN001 would enter the paint hanger in the beginning of April (see reply #79). Let's assume she went inside last Monday (April 1)**, that's only a week. Painting a A330/A350 sized aircraft takes about a week (sometimes longer, it depends on the complexity of the livery I guess) so maybe we might see MSN001 this week. But the possibility exists that we won't see any pictures at all before the official roll out ceremony. And nobody knows when that will be.

** The beginning of April can also be the second week of the month. In that case she will enter the paint hanger this week, which would be consistent with bigsmile's post.

[Edited 2013-04-08 10:24:49]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-08 11:12:35 and read 34267 times.

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 173):
Could that be MSN003 going to Station 30 and MSN001 going to paint..............?

MSN001 was moved to station 30 on December 4, so it took about 10 weeks between fuselage join and station 30 roll over. MSN003 moving to station 30 this week fits the timeline.

In fact, this is about 2-3 weeks faster than MSN001:

MSN001:
- September 25: fuselage join
- December 4: station 30 roll over

= 10 weeks

MSN003
- February 20: fuselage join
- April 12: station 30 roll over (let's assume the end of the week)

= 7 weeks

Quoting ferpe (Reply 175):
thanks Bigsmile, that means MSN003 is tracking 5 months behind MSN001 which is to long,

Well, no surprise there. MSN003 would come about 2 months after MSN001 but was delayed for 2 months. It enterered final assembly in February instead of December.

So now MSN003 will disappear in station 30 for the next 3 months    She should see daylight again in July, then add another month for outdoor tests and engine attachment    Then paint    MSN003 should roll out in August or September. But assembly should go a bit faster.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 175):
I would expect the FAL stations to be quicker so perhaps one can claw back 1-2 months, we will see.

Assembly should be going faster**, at least for MSN 003 and 004. MSN 002 & 005 will take more work bacause they will have a full cabin.

** see:

Quote:
MSN3 was the first aircraft joined on Station 50B, which had a higher readiness level thanks to debugging that followed the initial two jetliners’ assembly on Station 50A.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-09 02:30:21 and read 33347 times.

"The company expects to achieve first flight of its A350 jet in "the coming three months," Airbus CEO Fabrice Bregier said in the sidelines of a groundbreaking ceremony for a $600 million Airbus factory in Mobile."

See http://news.yahoo.com/airbus-sales-c...ane-orders-184249587--finance.html

[Edited 2013-04-09 02:30:51]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: flyhigh@tom
Posted 2013-04-09 04:09:31 and read 32956 times.

Quoting Phen (Reply 169):
Apologies if this question has been asked before - I did a search but could not find an answer. With the new LED lights now in use on new aircraft such as the 787 / 747-8 (and presumably all new Airbus aircraft), does anybody how will Airbus achieve the trademark double wingtip strobe flash with LEDs? Or perhaps they will abandon it? Looking at the 787, if you imagine two wingtip strobe flashes, it would probably result in a very long flash cycle - possibly too long?

Its already present and flying on the sharklets on the 320 series. actually its a very short double flash..similar to the older generation strobes but only brighter and more annoying to the people in the flight deck...especially in the night! In the A320 atleast you can just turn your head and see the wingtips...now the strobes are right in your face when you do that and the flashes actually illuminate the glareshield   ....well for the a nutters and others they look cool though!  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Flyhigh1982
Posted 2013-04-09 04:45:58 and read 32750 times.

This is a question about the a350 Interior . Early on airbus displayed there BMW interior and one feature it with its led lighting system that it alowwed them to project images onto the ceiling as apart of the mood lighting . now with the new videos it dosnt look like they can do it I personally think that was an amazing idear and no other aircraft had it and would defently made the a350 interior stand out from the 787 and even the a38o anyone no anything about this it's defently has the cool factor I thought they have either scrapped the idear or. There not really showing untill it comes out ?????

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Phen
Posted 2013-04-09 11:21:45 and read 31941 times.

Quoting Flyhigh1982 (Reply 181):
Its already present and flying on the sharklets on the 320 series. actually its a very short double flash.

Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. Looking at this video its actually visible as you described: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO5vOsjdkRk.

I assumed the long flash on the 787 / 747-8 was a feature of all LEDs - thats obviously not the case!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-09 11:43:31 and read 31903 times.

Latest news on the first flight issue:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...=SOC|FGFG|twitterfeed|Flightglobal

"It will be around mid-year, just after Paris or a week later. It's difficult to say," Airbus chief executive Fabrice Bregier tells Flightglobal on the sidelines of an industry lunch in Washington DC.

Somehow I don't see the point of flying the week after  ...

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: speedygonzales
Posted 2013-04-09 11:44:53 and read 31813 times.

Quoting Phen (Reply 182):
I assumed the long flash on the 787 / 747-8 was a feature of all LEDs - thats obviously not the case!

LEDs are much faster than incandecent bulbs, but not as fast as xenon flash bulbs.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2013-04-09 11:47:41 and read 31827 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 183):
"It will be around mid-year, just after Paris or a week later. It's difficult to say," Airbus chief executive Fabrice Bregier tells Flightglobal on the sidelines of an industry lunch in Washington DC.

I would guess that internally they are pushing the A350 team for flying before Paris. It would be a great PR coup, especially in light of the current B787 woes. However I assume they are publicly playing it down so as to not have to disappoint publicly. "around mid-year" is suitably vague. almost as if they don't really care about the Paris airshow.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 183):
Somehow I don't see the point of flying the week after

Agreed.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-10 02:08:11 and read 30720 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 178):
MSN001:
- September 25: fuselage join
- December 4: station 30 roll over
= 10 weeks

MSN003
- February 20: fuselage join
- April 12: station 30 roll over (let's assume the end of the week)
= 7 weeks

Good lineup, it servers well to check where Airbus is today with production rate. The limiting factor is the FAL stations 50, 40 and 30 where they only have 2 lines each, then at 18 and 20 they are more flexible again as we have seen (engine hang in a special purpose hangar). If we add the MSN001 station 30 time we can check time through this dimensioning sector of the FAL, here goes:

MSN001
- September 25: fuselage join
- December 4: station 30 roll over
= 10 weeks with 2 FAL lines ie at 5 weeks throughput
- February 26: station 18 roll out
= 12 weeks, ie 6 weeks throughput

MSN003
- February 20: fuselage join
- April 12: station 30 roll over (let's assume the end of the week)
= 7 weeks, ie 3.5 weeks throughput
- lets assume 3 weeks improvement for station 30 as well, gives 17 June (the day Le Bourget starts  Wow! )
= 9 weeks, ie 4.5 weeks throughput


To be at 4.5 weeks FAL throughput after the 3rd frame (including static) is good as A had planned for 1 frame per month until around shipset 18 when they shall be at 1.5 a month. Lets say that 1 a month was planned from shipset 6 or so, they will be there by shipset 4 it seems. Bregier and Evrard have said the FAL is running well, it seems so. They might claw back all the delays caused by Spirit once Spirit can deliver full speed again.

[Edited 2013-04-10 02:14:02]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-11 10:37:39 and read 29292 times.

Thanks for digging a bit deeper   

The 2 lines in station 50, 40 and 30 should not be a problem as long as the production rate is low. And the second FAL - the A50 building - should be ready somewhere next year.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-12 02:14:31 and read 28333 times.

MSN003:



Source http://twitter.com/luchtvaart/status/322637406266351617/photo/1

This must be station 40? I can see the pylons with blue weights in place, the red door covers are already removed etc.

[Edited 2013-04-12 02:26:20]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-12 02:24:04 and read 28186 times.

Nice thanks !
Slats are on (not inboard position), spoilers are on ?
Pylons ? donno
Gear ? donno

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-04-12 06:28:32 and read 27525 times.

Oh yes, nice, thanks !
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2318/a350msn003pictwitterfro.jpg
http://twitter.com/JeffvB_/status/322643119378153472

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-12 10:48:50 and read 26889 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 189):
Pylons ? donno

I could be wrong, but it looks like they are attaching the counter weights on the pylons:



vs



Strange enough, MSN001 did not have them after station 40 roll out:

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: discovery1
Posted 2013-04-12 11:21:02 and read 26749 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 191):

Strange enough, MSN001 did not have them after station 40 roll out:

Maybe MSN1 didn't have some internal ducting installed at that point, resulting in the CG being farther forward? There was talk of changes being incorporated.

Also I suspect a lot of the heavier elements in the rear aren't installed at this point. The APU isn't and neither is all the stuff that goes under the belly fairing. I know there is at least an hydraulic reservoir just aft of the wing, it's listed in the airport manual for the A350, it was posted in version 7 of this thread.

repost:
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...ch_data/AC/Airbus-ACA350-Jan13.pdf

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-04-14 23:27:59 and read 25111 times.

Quoting Phen (Reply 169):
Apologies if this question has been asked before - I did a search but could not find an answer. With the new LED lights now in use on new aircraft such as the 787 / 747-8 (and presumably all new Airbus aircraft), does anybody how will Airbus achieve the trademark double wingtip strobe flash with LEDs? Or perhaps they will abandon it? Looking at the 787, if you imagine two wingtip strobe flashes, it would probably result in a very long flash cycle - possibly too long?

I will attempt to give some input here - I was watching the sharklet equipped A320 of LH yesterday, and I am almost 100% certain the new white wingtip 'strobes' are now LED on that machine, and they do indeed have a double flash. They are not flashing as quick as the strobes, however, it definitely looked like it was still two flashes, just slightly longer duration. If they weren't LED, then apologies, it certainly seemed it to me.

So I guess that the A350 will have similar design.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-16 10:57:06 and read 23498 times.

In the meantime I found a picture of MSN001 being towed towards the hangar for engine attachment on March 26:

http://oi45.tinypic.com/280sgnn.jpg

I believe we never have seen a picture from this distance, it clearly shows what a large aircraft the A350 is.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-16 11:06:26 and read 23385 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 194):
MSN001 being towed towards the hangar for engine attachment on March 26:

The engines was hung in a day, it's absence since then is intriguing. I think Airbus either has found something that needs to be attended to (less likely given their comments that things are progressing well ) or they finish the tests that they scheduled for after painting now before painting. There is nothing that forces them to do such tests after painting and it will give them more time to schedule the painting and a more media oriented appearance after painting where they can hand the aircraft over directly to the flight test department.

We will see what was behind this keeping it under wraps 10 days longer then we all thought, one is checking every day if the bird is there  Wow!    .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-04-16 11:17:16 and read 23257 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 195):
We will see what was behind this keeping it under wraps 10 days longer then we all thought, one is checking every day if the bird is there      .

The same as going to the restroom and then checking (outside) if your fly is open, or you really did zip it....LOL

I am anxious to see this new AC painted and ready to fly.... (after all the 787 delays, I did not expect it to fly in 2013!)

TRB

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: abba
Posted 2013-04-16 11:19:24 and read 23249 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 195):
one is checking every day if the bird is there


Indeed so. And I wonder if a date for official roll out has been given? If they are going to have the press and dignitaries attending at least some notice in advance must be needed. How long time did it take from announcement to actual roll out of the 380? Just to have some kind of reference!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-16 11:20:19 and read 23405 times.

From the Airbus press release:

Quote:
With the installation of its engines and also the APU, the A350 XWB MSN001 becomes essentially a ‘completed’ aircraft. Following the ongoing ground tests, other preparations and also painting in the coming weeks, MSN001 will then be handed over to the Airbus Flight Test team to commence preparations for ground runs and maiden flight in the summer.

I guess they are doing those "ongoing ground tests" and "other preparations" now.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 195):
one is checking every day if the bird is there

I know a spotter out there, checking every day for MSN001 

[Edited 2013-04-16 11:22:13]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-16 11:31:25 and read 23241 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 198):
I know a spotter out there, checking every day for MSN001

That's what I figured, therefore I didn't bother to pass the airfield Saturday when we passed Toulouse to get out to the Atlantic coast, if the bird would have been outside to see, you and your friends would have already served us the info    .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-16 11:48:15 and read 23131 times.

Quoting abba (Reply 197):
And I wonder if a date for official roll out has been given?

No, but multiple sources mentioned a roll out date in April 2013. Also, in the press release of March 26 Airbus said that the ongoing ground tests, other preparations and also painting should take place in the "coming weeks" and not months so I'm still convinced that we will see MSN001 fully painted before the end of the month (unless a problem pops up).

[Edited 2013-04-16 11:51:02]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: abba
Posted 2013-04-16 15:27:49 and read 22646 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 200):
I'm still convinced that we will see MSN001 fully painted before the end of the month


That must mean that a number of the invited guests already have a date at least reserved! Why has that not been leaked by now   

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: knoxibus
Posted 2013-04-17 00:55:50 and read 22099 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 198):
I know a spotter out there, checking every day for MSN001

I guess your spotter did not "spot" MSN 003 leaving station 40 and joining MSN 001 in the same hangar on Monday 

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-17 01:04:08 and read 22103 times.

Hehehe  Unfortunately, plane spotting is not a full time job  

So what is MSN003 doing in that hangar, shouldn't it be in station 30?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: jvaljean
Posted 2013-04-17 01:06:45 and read 22011 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 202):

Any thoughts on when the roll-out ceremony might occur?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: moo
Posted 2013-04-17 01:52:24 and read 21805 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 203):
So what is MSN003 doing in that hangar, shouldn't it be in station 30?

Could Airbus be trying to pull something amazing and do the roll out ceremony with two aircraft rather than one?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-17 01:52:34 and read 21849 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 202):
I guess your spotter did not "spot" MSN 003 leaving station 40 and joining MSN 001 in the same hangar on Monday

We need to increase our resources and vigilance    , we can't have you doing things without us knowing       .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-17 02:07:05 and read 21786 times.

Either way, this confirms the 3 weeks faster assembly time for MSN003.

[Edited 2013-04-17 02:12:00]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-04-17 02:07:31 and read 21757 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 202):
I guess your spotter did not "spot" MSN 003 leaving station 40 and joining MSN 001 in the same hangar on Monday

Shouldn't she have gone to the fueling station first like MSN001?

Quoting moo (Reply 205):
Could Airbus be trying to pull something amazing and do the roll out ceremony with two aircraft rather than one?

That would just be showing off!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-17 02:11:06 and read 21763 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 208):
Shouldn't she have gone to the fueling station first like MSN001?

No, the sequence is station 50 -> station 40 -> station 30 -> station 18 (fuel / outdoor tests).

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-17 02:16:13 and read 21710 times.

BBD has shown at least 3 FTV

Showing 2 A350 for the price of one will give indications on (choose your favortite proposal)

1) the current level of discount on list price
2) the readiness of the supply chain

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2013-04-17 02:24:02 and read 21676 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 210):
1) the current level of discount on list price

Hahaha nice one!

I haven't been following this project since the start and I am absolutely not an expert like most of the guys in this thread. But to my layman eyes this project almost seems to go extraordinarily well up until now, would that be a correct assessment? (barring any unforeseen developments in the near future of course). I seem to remember that the project is now delayed by 6 months. Is this correct? And where in the project cycle did this delay occur?

[Edited 2013-04-17 02:26:52]

[Edited 2013-04-17 02:28:54]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-17 02:24:59 and read 21697 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 210):
Showing 2 A350 for the price of one will give indications on (choose your favortite proposal)

I think they needed to fit some testing equipment which they could do in station 30 but also in C63 by the side of MSN001. This also gives a fine photo-shoot opportunity at the cost of one more towing leg.

It would be the kind of sacrifice one could do for getting a nice photo to spread, no impact to the project but a nice status shoot for the sales guys to use with their clients    .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-17 02:27:51 and read 21773 times.

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 57):
Ooops! I made a mistake, it was yesterday that the l/h of MSN 002 was transported to Bremen by Beluga.

We are now a month further, the first wing of MSN002 should be ready in Bremen (the first wing of MSN001 was transported to Bremen in the middle of September last year and unveiled on October 16). MSN002's fuselage join in station 50 should start in the coming weeks, wing join in station 40 than in the beginning of May.

In a few weeks we will have:

- MSN001 in paint
- MSN002 in station 40
- MSN003 in station 30

We also saw different sections for the fatigue tests passing by, so the next big announcement after MSN002 should be MSN004.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-17 03:25:44 and read 21515 times.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 211):
I seem to remember that the project is now delayed by 6 months. Is this correct? And where in the project cycle did this delay occur?

The project is about 18 months delayed compared to the original plan from 2006, here the best overview that we have had in the thread (it is a chart which is made by CM ) :



The text on the left can be hard to read, the first line is the schedule A announced at launch 2006. Then a presentation from A at Hamburg Uni 2007-09, it included the flight test start and then the changes announced by A all the way up to 2013-01. As can be seen the flight test start is delayed 18 months but delivery only 12. A has said there was 6 months reserves in flight test they could release. In the meantime additional delays (e.g. mid section late changes) will most probably mean we will see deliveries 2H 2014 if things go smoothly and later if not. It is a lot to ask for a totally new design to pass flight test with only minor issues and most people expect EIS will be late 2014 or early 2015 depending on how many problems that crop up in flight test.


Re cause of delays:
Airbus has taken the delays when they appear in this project e.g. in the design phase (CFRP damage tolerance...), by parts build and preFAL. FAL has therefore gone smoother then expected as the sections that arrive have a good maturity level. This is different to the A380 and 787 projects and shows the way how projects will be run going forward (stop and fix rather then keep going and fix later). The learnings are that there is no point in pushing forward with things if you are not ready at a certain stage, you will only cause further delays with this tactic as special people have to complete the work item later in a non standard place and then be in the way for those that should do the standard tasks at that stage. The result in the kind of half chaos we have seen in A380 and 787 production which is detrimental to the overall time plan and which delays the all important learning curve improvements in task completion.

So stop and fix the problems with the people that shall do it later in series and you will have smoother sailing for the future  .

[Edited 2013-04-17 03:39:56]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: knoxibus
Posted 2013-04-17 08:03:43 and read 20715 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 203):
So what is MSN003 doing in that hangar, shouldn't it be in station 30?

Just went to station 30 and it should be there either tonight or tomorrow morning.

Now I am ready to play a little game with you guys. Who can guess the kind of testing that MSN 003 was doing there for 2/3 days?

Please avoid to flood the thread, so thanks to make a serious proposal (don't want to get in trouble with the mods).

In order to make things quick, here are some hints:
1) It can be encountered several times in the life of an aircraft during its operation.
2) It is the title of a famous AC/DC song.

Fire away!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-17 08:09:57 and read 20704 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 215):
1) It can be encountered several times in the life of an aircraft during its operation.
2) It is the title of a famous AC/DC song.

How about lightning strike tests    (must admit I had to check AC/DC songs  )

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-17 08:10:02 and read 20727 times.

So ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:AC/DC_songs

It won' t be T.n.t

Maybe High voltage ?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-04-17 08:10:11 and read 20787 times.

Landing Gear testing....

I would be pissing my pants if those guys make the official rollout with 2 A350 in different colors....

TRB

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: N14AZ
Posted 2013-04-17 08:10:18 and read 20857 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 215):
2) It is the title of a famous AC/DC song.

Thunderstruck!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: knoxibus
Posted 2013-04-17 08:13:11 and read 20942 times.

  

Ferpe is the winner, N14AZ came in as close second.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-04-17 08:14:30 and read 20979 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 215):

Lightning tests?

Thunderstruck is my favourite AC/DC song, volume goes up maximum    on my car stereo!

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-17 08:15:02 and read 21016 times.

Lightning strike tests in a hangar? Never heard about that.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-04-17 08:15:45 and read 20998 times.

Damn, was I slow   

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-17 08:16:52 and read 20991 times.

Oooooooooo

Isn't thunderstruck a high voltage current ?
 



   

I miss this one
What king of lightning test can you do at this stage on a full airframe ? (that has been powered on ?)
Strange (at least for me)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-17 08:23:52 and read 20956 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 224):
sn't thunderstruck a high voltage current ?

I think there is some Volts in-between     .

But the thread is certainly high voltage    right now, everyone on their toes not to miss the sight of a complete bird    , might even have the cloths on    .

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-17 08:25:12 and read 21010 times.

Obviously i'm not alone   

Can we have some more explanations ?

Thanks

(by the way, nice song)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Unflug
Posted 2013-04-17 08:26:49 and read 21731 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 222):
Lightning strike tests in a hangar? Never heard about that.
Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 224):
What king of lightning test can you do at this stage on a full airframe ? (that has been powered on ?)
Strange (at least for me)

They should be able to create high voltages resulting in lightning strikes in the hangar. Similar to what is shown in this museum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxmJdNhh1BE

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-04-17 09:09:13 and read 21448 times.

You should be able to produce lightening using a Van der graaf generator... Which was also the name of a half decent English prog rock band from the 70's

OK so MSN003 has done a high voltage tour of Hanger 63 before going to Station 30 for 2 weeks (?) then to Station 18 and back to 63 for engines, that will take about a month, so I doubt that we will see A350's in a choice of colours for the rollout. They could leave the Station 18 work till later though and just hang the engines and paint her though I suppose.

Any news on when MSN001 is heading to the paint shop?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-17 09:46:51 and read 21356 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 228):
Station 30 for 2 weeks (?)

MSN001 spent 3 months in station 30.

[Edited 2013-04-17 09:47:22]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-04-17 10:47:26 and read 20979 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 229):
MSN001 spent 3 months in station 30.

Totally losing track of time here..

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aircellist
Posted 2013-04-17 11:04:04 and read 20932 times.

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 215):
Now I am ready to play a little game with you guys.

And that happened just while I was out for lunch!  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2013-04-17 12:08:58 and read 20641 times.

Oh dear Lord, that pic, courtesy of KarelXWB leaves me chomping at the bit to see this beauty fly.

She has so many aesthetic qualities from favourites of old; flight deck windows like the Trident, the tail arrangement screams speed a la Coronado, sharklets/winglets/gorgeous appendiges which scream style and functionality.

Remember the Dreamliner's shark tail which got everyone so excited? Looks like Airbus have managed to keep their aesthetic licences through to the final incantation,

She's stunning. All that's missing now is the noise that draws your eyes to the sky from those ground breaking Rolls engines.

Rarely have I anticipated a first flight so intensely.

Rgds

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: airmagnac
Posted 2013-04-17 12:15:23 and read 20600 times.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 224):
What king of lightning test can you do at this stage on a full airframe ? (that has been powered on ?)
Strange (at least for me)

This is the first time Airbus builds a fuselage out of a majority of composite materials, which have relatively poor conductive properties. To make up for that, a metallic mesh is embedded into the layers of composites. It makes sense to make a few tests on this new solution in a controlled environment as soon as possible, before discovering in flight that it does not work quite right.
It most likely has been lab tested on small elements, but this is the first time that a complete frame with all the internal electrical networks and calculators can be tested.


Quoting Aircellist (Reply 231):
And that happened just while I was out for lunch!

Well let's keep on fooling around anyway !  To each event its ACDC song :

Painting - Back in Black [or rather in white ??]
Roll Out - For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)
Engines on - Rock and Roll(ers) Ain't Noise Pollution [certainly not !    ]
Taxi tests - Are you ready
First Flight and launch of flight test campaign - It's a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock 'n' Roll)
MSN003 joins MSN001 on the flight line - Can I Sit Next to You Girl
Static testing - Hard as a Rock
Fatigue testing - You Shook Me All Night Long
Certification - That's the Way I Wanna Rock 'n' Roll
EIS - What Do You Do for Money Honey


Hopefully, a lot of Have a Drink on Me and not too much Shot Down in Flames, TNT or Highway to Hell


Now I really have to get back to that report I'm supposed to finish by tomorrow...
        

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: thunderboltdrgn
Posted 2013-04-17 12:22:35 and read 20509 times.

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 233):
Well let's keep on fooling around anyway ! To each event its ACDC song :

Painting - Back in Black [or rather in white ??]
Roll Out - For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)
Engines on - Rock and Roll(ers) Ain't Noise Pollution [certainly not ! ]
Taxi tests - Are you ready
First Flight and launch of flight test campaign - It's a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock 'n' Roll)
MSN003 joins MSN001 on the flight line - Can I Sit Next to You Girl
Static testing - Hard as a Rock
Fatigue testing - You Shook Me All Night Long
Certification - That's the Way I Wanna Rock 'n' Roll
EIS - What Do You Do for Money Honey

wow great work.      

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: oly720man
Posted 2013-04-17 13:06:02 and read 20297 times.

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 233):
It most likely has been lab tested on small elements,

Airbus have a test lab in Cardiff where they can zap bits of material with up to 250000A and 400000V as the worst ever recorded lightning strike.

http://blogjfa.blogspot.es/

There's a BBC video report here. Compare the response of the composite with the tea pot at the end.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18870112

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-04-17 15:55:56 and read 19715 times.

Wow, so many developments and time lines in the most recent days of this thread. Things are getting really exciting now. I can hardly wait to see the A350-XWB in full colors.  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-19 01:09:21 and read 18327 times.

Busy days in C63.



Source http://www.bloga350.blogspot.nl/2013...hing-flight-test-installation.html

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-19 01:13:34 and read 18247 times.

Hello
Look a the pics, one engine missing on two of them
I suspect that they are quite old (dating from engine installation)

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-19 01:15:59 and read 18287 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 237):
Busy days in C63.

Yes, but these photos was taken on the day of the engine install (left engine still not mounted on the first picture). On the Italian website that the 350 blog is referring it is more clear these pictures does not tell what has transpired after engine install. But the text makes sense, it is additional preparations so MSN001 can be transfered to the flight test team (after painting) which is done right now.

 banghead  you beat me to it Poncho Big grin

[Edited 2013-04-19 01:17:32]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-19 01:30:32 and read 18270 times.

I should have seen this. Let's forget the pictures above  

[Edited 2013-04-19 01:31:50]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: Aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-19 01:40:02 and read 18208 times.

  

I was waiting for KarelXWB message hidden in the woods         

It's no news pics, but pics, so that's always nice to have some, thanks karelXWB

I'm sure Airbus and BBD will be able to spoil 787 back in the air PR campaign  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-19 03:22:52 and read 17836 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 240):
I should have seen this. Let's forget the pictures above

You have given us so many breaking pictures and these were also new (=not seen before), always nice with action in the thread    , better we discuss then biting our nails  Wow! 

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-04-19 03:24:14 and read 17835 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 242):
You have given us so many breaking pictures and these were also new (=not seen before), always nice with action in the thread    , better we discuss then biting our nails   

I can only agree with this comment.   The more pictures we get to see here, the better it is.  

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: pugman211
Posted 2013-04-22 21:47:40 and read 15904 times.

Any more updates for this thread???

The only update I have is there will be another set of wings ready for transport to Bremen in the coming weeks.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-23 00:32:16 and read 15611 times.

The wings for EF2 maybe?

So we have had a set of wings last month (MSN002) and now another set. Seems like production is accelerating  

[Edited 2013-04-23 01:03:53]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: maxter
Posted 2013-04-24 10:23:28 and read 14219 times.

Not sure where to put this, but...

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...-with-airlines-20130424-2iene.html

Cheers,

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-26 13:42:29 and read 12428 times.

MSN001 has been spotted in C63 last Wednesday. So it's still not inside the paint hangar.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-29 08:41:18 and read 10755 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 247):
MSN001 has been spotted in C63 last Wednesday. So it's still not inside the paint hangar.

I know that CM and Tom informed us that there is quite some testing to be done once the A350 is complete, here is a very good link from the 787 to what that is. I don't expect that Airbus does it very differently:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...etting-from-here-to-there-787.html

So I think what we are watching (or not seeing ) is the tests up to outdoor gauntlet when the engines and APU get exercised as well. These tests can be done before or after painting, I guess you want access to all hatches and take away all cover panels for the tests so why not leave the painting until late in this process, many a prototypes have flown unpainted for first flight  Yeah sure .

[Edited 2013-04-29 09:30:16]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 01:47:48 and read 9895 times.

Pictures of the lightning test:





Quote:
Airbus’ second A350 XWB flight test aircraft, MSN3, demonstrated necessary protection levels in case of lightning strikes while aloft during evaluations performed at the company’s Clément Ader facility in April 2013
http://www.airbus.com/no_cache/newse...with-lightning-strike-evaluations/

[Edited 2013-04-30 01:49:23]

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-30 02:01:28 and read 9771 times.

Thks
The photoshooter made it blurred .... focusing on the fence on the first one, and on the white boxe on the ground on the second ...

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 05:51:39 and read 9200 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 248):
I know that CM and Tom informed us that there is quite some testing to be done once the A350 is complete, here is a very good link from the 787 to what that is. I don't expect that Airbus does it very differently:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl....html

Thanks for sharing this interesting url.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 248):
So I think what we are watching (or not seeing&nbsp Wink is the tests up to outdoor gauntlet when the engines and APU get exercised as well. These tests can be done before or after painting, I guess you want access to all hatches and take away all cover panels for the tests so why not leave the painting until late in this process, many a prototypes have flown unpainted for first flight   .

It makes sense. It has been a month since engine attachment, I assume they are extensively testing the a/c like described in the Flightglobal article. It's also a smart move to do the lightning tests on MSN3 so this test can be skipped. And yeah, why wasting a whole week for painting 

This is different from the A380 program. The A380 MSN001 was painted for an unveiling ceremony and they did the pre-flight tests afterwards.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-30 06:06:24 and read 9236 times.

Did you see this one ?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-as-airbus-a350-debut-in-flux.html

Quote:

Qatar Airways Ltd. and Boeing are expected to participate
now that U.S. regulators have cleared the airplane to fly again,
said Gilles Fournier, managing director for the Paris show.

“We expect a flying display of the Boeing aircraft every
day” with confirmation still pending, he said at a London
briefing. The Airbus A350, the direct rival to the 787, is not
planned to showcase at the event, with Fournier predicting the
first flight before the show, which kicks off on June 17.


I don't know what to think of that

By the way, MSN003 has most of it's movable aero device installed ... it seems pretty complete !

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-04-30 06:22:45 and read 9101 times.

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 252):
By the way, MSN003 has most of it's movable aero device installed ... it seems pretty complete !

You are right, the wing seems to be pretty much the same as MSN001 also had spoilers and ailerons etc installed when rolled between Station 40 to Station 30 but there where front covers missing on the VTP and HTP of MSN001. This is all complete on MSN003, could be that it has to be there to make the lightning tests representative.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 06:25:46 and read 9089 times.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 253):
This is all complete on MSN003, could be that it has to be there to make the lightning tests representative.

Maybe. So 3 weeks faster assembly than MSN001 and even more complete.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: aviaponcho
Posted 2013-04-30 06:34:58 and read 9023 times.

And MSN003 wiring and systems should be complete and already powered up in order to check lightning effect ...
So in fact they are going through preflight tests with two aircrafts ... it should be quicker.

What about T-XWB ? and other MSN ?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 06:46:31 and read 8935 times.

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 255):
And MSN003 wiring and systems should be complete and already powered up in order to check lightning effect ...

That's the normal procedure, MSN001 had its full power on in station 40 too.

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 255):
and other MSN ?

MSN002 should enter final assembly very soon. I expect its wings to be ready now (if not already transported to TLS).

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: LZ129
Posted 2013-04-30 12:04:23 and read 8296 times.

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is there a picture of MSN001 in its entirety at this moment, that is with engines, but without paint?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 12:08:07 and read 8287 times.

There isn't such a picture yet.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: LZ129
Posted 2013-04-30 12:11:10 and read 8281 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 258):

Thank you for the info! I really can't wait to see the whole thing. Even without paint it should look stunning.
I heard a rumor somewhere that there will also be a slight change in the Airbus livery with the 350. Is there anything to that?

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-04-30 12:29:58 and read 8271 times.

Quoting LZ129 (Reply 259):
I really can't wait to see the whole thing.

No problem, everyone in this thread can't wait to see it  
Quoting LZ129 (Reply 259):
Even without paint it should look stunning.

  

Quoting LZ129 (Reply 259):
I heard a rumor somewhere that there will also be a slight change in the Airbus livery with the 350. Is there anything to that?

That's the first thing I heard about a changed livery.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: gr09
Posted 2013-04-30 18:16:45 and read 8019 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 251):
And yeah, why wasting a whole week for painting

It's better showing up at Paris without paint than wandering around the factory painted   (Just my wild speculation, but you know... fingers crossed)

Let me use the opportunity to thank to all contributors to make this the best thread (at least for me) on airliners.net. It won't be the same after the first take off since during the design phase there were many dense informative posts, later on with the beautiful plane in the air the thread will get more fragmented.

Topic: RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-04-30 19:19:46 and read 7930 times.

Due to length of this thread, please continue the discussion in part 9: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9 (by iowaman Apr 30 2013 in Civil Aviation)


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