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Topic: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-01 15:08:13 and read 6778 times.

I see in GDS, JAL is switching its HND-SFO service from 777 to 787 effective September 1st.

I cant think of how much JAL has shrunk at SFO.
From being its first US mainland city in 1954, to multiple 747s, to dropping SFO-NRT completely in 2010, and now using a low capacity 787 to the Bay Area.

Yikes!

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: psa1011
Posted 2013-05-01 15:24:31 and read 6676 times.

Although it will be the first 787 to fly to SFO regularly 

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-05-01 16:33:43 and read 6433 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I cant think of how much JAL has shrunk at SFO.
From being its first US mainland city in 1954, to multiple 747s, to dropping SFO-NRT completely in 2010, and now using a low capacity 787 to the Bay Area.

Yikes!

I think your being a little mellow dramatic with your observation.

Yes, JAL was first to SFO in 1954. You could not expect them to just fly to SFO without JFK,LAX etc.

Since JAL no longer flies the 744, it is kind of moot. The most JAL ever flew to SFO was 8 weekly with an extension to LAS.

Since they are currently flying a 777-200ER into SFO with 56J/40W/149Y. I would rather fly on a new 787-8 with their Sky suite instead of their 772 that did not have them. In time, I would expect them to upgage to the 787-9.

If anything, LAX has seen the decline in JAL over the last few years. No more service to KIX,NGO and they are down to one daily flight to NRT.

Yikes!

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: modesto2
Posted 2013-05-01 17:05:58 and read 6313 times.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 2):

If anything, LAX has seen the decline in JAL over the last few years. No more service to KIX,NGO and they are down to one daily flight to NRT.

Agreed, I only have data to the year 2000, but when comparing JL's SFO and LAX schedules in 2000 vs. 2013, LAX has lost far more service. In July 2000, JL served LAX with:

1x weekly GRU
7x weekly KIX
4x weekly NGO
13x weekly NRT

In July 2013, it serves LAX with just:

7x NRT

By comparison, JL served SFO in July 2000 with 8x NRT and will serve SFO in July 2013 with 7x HND.

Yes, aircraft gauge has changed and reducing SFO capacity from 1x daily 744 to 1x 788 is substantial, but LAX's frequency reduction alone far outweighs any competing gauge adjustments.

Excellent point, legacyins.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-05-01 17:06:19 and read 6310 times.

I recall SFO used to be the premier station for JAL in North America, and even Americas HQ at one time. Flights were JAL001 & 002.

But yes they drop greatly from past.

Gone is much capacity. With 787 only 180 seats huge drop from 747 days. Also terminating Narita was amazing move by JAL in SFO.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-05-01 17:18:03 and read 6257 times.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 4):
I recall SFO used to be the premier station for JAL in North America, and even Americas HQ at one time. Flights were JAL001 & 002.
Quoting mercure1 (Reply 4):
But yes they drop greatly from past.

Back in 1954 you didn't have UA, DL and NH also flying SFO-NRT, not to mention now also SJC-NRT (and PDX-NRT, SEA-NRT and multiple LAX-NRTs). While JAL has cutback SFO, there is far far more US west coast to NRT service now.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-05-01 17:19:29 and read 6257 times.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 4):
Gone is much capacity. With 787 only 180 seats huge drop from 747 days. Also terminating Narita was amazing move by JAL in SFO.

I am thinking of this a little differently. You cannot really compare their 744 service to their current service since they no longer fly the 744. They last service to NRT was on a 777-300ER with 246 in 4 classes compares to 186 2 class 787. Yes, a decrease but the flight was also transferred over to HDN. NRT has a lot more transfer traffic within Asia than HDN does. HDN is also more convenient to Tokyo than NRT.

I am actually flying on this flight at the end of this month. The Westin Hotel in Tokyo actually has a shuttle service that I am taking advantage of. If I had flown into NRT, I would have had to taken a private/public transit service to the Hotel.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-01 18:59:22 and read 5939 times.

SkySuite product is not available on the 787.

787 is rather basic in 2-class with the shell seat (angled flat) in business class.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-05-01 19:10:37 and read 5899 times.

Actually, I was checking JAL's website and they will have the Shell Flat NEO seat on JL 1/2.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-01 19:36:09 and read 5787 times.

Yes the Shell Flat NEO is the angled biz seat.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-05-01 20:26:39 and read 5659 times.

I was confused by the word "flat". It is true it is flat but on an angle. I don't really like these type of seats as I tend to slide. So I guess JL and DL will be the only carriers that do not offer full lie flat seats on the SFO-TYO run.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-01 22:26:18 and read 5416 times.

Actually I am quite surprised at how mediocre JAL chose to make its 787 cabins. No Y+ product either.

ANA atleast uses its latest staggered business class product on its longhaul 787s.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: modesto2
Posted 2013-05-02 06:16:13 and read 5096 times.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 10):
So I guess JL and DL will be the only carriers that do not offer full lie flat seats on the SFO-TYO run.

Actually, DL now offers flat-beds on NRTSFO. DL has been installing flat-beds on its 763ER fleet and as those aircraft have entered service, NRTSFO has been receiving them. The route now has DL's high-density 767 configuration known as the "76Z," with 25 flat-bed BusinessElite seats, 29 Y+, and 171 Y. There was some time when only some of the NRTSFO flights operated with the flat-beds but now, the route has all flat-bed aircraft.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: mikeology
Posted 2013-05-02 09:04:59 and read 4636 times.

While a little off topic lets not forget they do have competition at SFO. At peak season you have 5 flights a day to choose from. In summer you have 2x Daily flights from UA. (Although one is to KIX) plus DL and NH. Not to mention at some point in the future NH resuming SJC service.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-05-02 09:52:41 and read 4208 times.

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 12):

Thanks for the nfo. I had been following the thread on the upgraded 767 but was not sure if every flight was using the 76Z. The last time I flew this route was Delta was a few years ago when they were still using the A332 from NW.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-05-02 09:54:40 and read 4190 times.

On a side note, since LA changed their schedule into SFO, the JAL flight offers nice connections from SFO to TYO for them.

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: PHXFlyer16
Posted 2013-05-02 10:03:09 and read 4117 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
Back in 1954 you didn't have UA, DL and NH also flying SFO-NRT, not to mention now also SJC-NRT (and PDX-NRT, SEA-NRT and multiple LAX-NRTs). While JAL has cutback SFO, there is far far more US west coast to NRT service now.

I agree completely. Does anyone have a list of US cities that now have non-stop service to NRT? I bet that list has tripled or quadrupled in the last 30 years.

Here's what I can think of in the western US:

LAX, SJC, SFO, SEA, PDX, SAN, DEN, IAH, DFW

The only remaining major cities without service I can think of in the Western US:

PHX, SLC, LAS

Did I get anything wrong/miss anything?

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: ATA L1011
Posted 2013-05-02 11:24:59 and read 3619 times.

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 16):
Here's what I can think of in the western US:

LAX, SJC, SFO, SEA, PDX, SAN, DEN, IAH, DFW

Although not a major player SMF, the Sacramento area doesn't with a metro area with over 2.5 mil. Also its hard pressed to call DFW and IAH the Western USA, they are pretty Central.

[Edited 2013-05-02 11:37:02]

Topic: RE: JAL Plans 787 To SFO
Username: carpethead
Posted 2013-05-02 11:30:05 and read 3577 times.

Not a total surprise at all. Throw away all the low-yielding really low bucket fares from economy.
Perhaps JL will re-instate NRT-SFO with 788 once they have more delivered. Their plan with the 787 is right on.
1) Start some thin long-haul routes (NRT-BOS/SAN/HEL). Certainly more to come in the future.
2) Increasing frequency on certain flights (NRT-DEL & TYO-SIN).
3) Replace longish 767 flights with 787s. (TYO-SIN/BKK)
4) Replace some 777 flying with 787s. (NRT-SYD & HND-SFO)
5) Upgauge Japan-HNL flights with 777 from 763.
6) Replace some int'l 738 flights with 763.
7) Replace the older domestic 763s with newer converted int'l 763.
8) Possibly put winglets on the 763 and upgrade the 763 product.

Quoting mikeology (Reply 13):
At peak season you have 5 flights a day to choose from. In summer you have 2x Daily flights from UA. (Although one is to KIX)

Unless something has changed recently, there are indeed 5 SFO-TYO flights a day. UA has two daily during the summer.


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