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Topic: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Andrensn
Posted 2013-05-02 05:08:21 and read 24190 times.

Hi all
What is longest runway in the world is that commonly handles passengers and is there any specific to have the runway that long?

Cheers
Andrensn

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-05-02 05:19:36 and read 24173 times.

Rwy 14/32 at ZUBD - 5500m/18,045ft

Airfield Elevation 14,219ft AMSL. That's likely the reason. LOL

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-05-02 05:24:08 and read 24100 times.

Yep, the Tibet Airport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZUBD
There's another airport being built in China with a longer runway...should be finished by next year...

I wonder if there's any videos out there of any takeoffs or landings...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagqu_Dagring_Airport

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: stealthz
Posted 2013-05-02 05:24:30 and read 24079 times.

As Speedbird said...

Qamdo Bamda Airport (IATA: BPX, ICAO: ZUBD), also known as Changdu Bangda Airport, located in Bamda, Qamdo, Tibet, China is the highest airport in the world, at an elevation of 4,334 metres (14,219 ft).[1] It has the longest publicly used runway in the world, at 5,500 m (18,045 ft).[2]

Google is your friend...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qamdo_Bamda_Airport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways


Cheers

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: beechtobus
Posted 2013-05-02 05:27:33 and read 24043 times.

Denver Intl. has the longest civilian one in North America at 16,000 ft.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-05-02 05:30:45 and read 23996 times.

Quoting Andrensn (Thread starter):
in the world

=

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 4):
Denver Intl. has the longest civilian one in North America

 

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-05-02 05:56:21 and read 23753 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
I wonder if there's any videos out there of any takeoffs or landings...

Here are some photos taken by someone who worked in this airport.

Link:
http://pic.feeyo.com/posts/137/1370419.html

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2013-05-02 05:59:59 and read 23714 times.

Shouldn't the mods make this thread a sticky at the top?

This question comes up every four to six months.

BTW - the longest runway is not really a good thing according to what I've learned on these threads.

Aircraft tires have maximum speeds. Some of these really long, really high runways can result in heavy aircraft approaching, and possible crossing, the tire maximum speed limits. Greatly increasing the chances of a catastrophic failure at the worst possible time.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-05-02 06:24:44 and read 23422 times.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds. Some of these really long, really high runways can result in heavy aircraft approaching, and possible crossing, the tire maximum speed limits. Greatly increasing the chances of a catastrophic failure at the worst possible time.

Bingo. We have a winner. Even out of JNB on that "little" runway there were occassions where tyre rotation speed brought down payload.... And that is only at 5558' amsl...

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-05-02 06:40:50 and read 23297 times.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds. Some of these really long, really high runways can result in heavy aircraft approaching, and possible crossing, the tire maximum speed limits. Greatly increasing the chances of a catastrophic failure at the worst possible time.

Brake energy limits (if aborting take off) can come into play, too. At some point longer runways don't help - nothing but removing weight is going to work.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-05-02 10:48:43 and read 21225 times.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds

I've seen speed limits of 275mph on Delta 757 tires (Michelins).

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-02 11:08:42 and read 20692 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 10):
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds

I've seen speed limits of 275mph on Delta 757 tires (Michelins).

Its time at speed (heat) too. And that is the 757 'rocket.'  


Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: speedbird2263
Posted 2013-05-02 11:22:38 and read 20358 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 1):

You wont see any CRJ's in there anytime soon...well...ever  . Flap extension altitude limit for the entire line of CRJ aircraft is 15,000ft. We have issues as is with crews remembering that limit flying in the West(USA) in the higher elevations as downwind for some arpts is close to 15,000ft. The AFM also states a max operating airport pressure altitude of 8000ft.

  
-2263

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2013-05-02 11:30:17 and read 20153 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):


Oh come on.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 6):
Here are some photos taken by someone who worked in this airport.

According to the crude google translation of the thread, 89 people died of various causes during the construction of the airport. Very sad to consider.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-05-02 12:33:01 and read 18758 times.

MIAs runway 9/27 is 13,000 feet and when LH flies the 380 it uses
almost the entire length of the runway when it takesoff as well as certain cargo & international flights.

LPB has a 13,100 foot runway but that's because the elevation is over 13,000 above sea level.

[Edited 2013-05-02 12:38:01]

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-02 12:52:07 and read 18206 times.

JFK has a 14,000 foot runway and J'berg has one 16,000 feet.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: migair54
Posted 2013-05-02 13:02:54 and read 17941 times.

MAD has very long runways as well, but threshold are displaced.


Few factors can limit the Regulated take off weight of the aircraft:
-Brake energy limit.
-Runway length.
-Second segment climb gradient. (for N-1), more restrictive for twins than 3 or 4 engine plane.
-Maximum tyre speed.
-Density Altitude. (temp, Qnh, runway elevation)

In the case of high elevation runways not only aerodynamics are affected but also engine trust, and that´s because of the air density, the same happens with the lift generated by the wings, and less density means a higher ground speeds, don´t forget that when talking about taking off speed we are talking about IAS (indicated Air Speed) so that´s the plane speed in that mass of air, and not the ground speed. Easy example (not perfectly accurate) 140 Knots of IAS at sea level is around 140 knots of ground Speed, but 140 knots at 14.000´ can easily be 170 knots of ground speed or even more.

so even if the runway is 10 kms long that doesn´t mean that the plane can take off with maximum take off weight.

Usually when airports are limiting the performance of a plane, airlines also limit the seat for sale, they don´t sell the whole plane, they will make a calculation and they will limit accordingly.

Another interesting fact is that in places like La Paz (Bolivia) when in ground the F/O go for walk around and the captain stays in the cockpit with the Oxygen mask on to avoid altitude sickness and planes has to be specially prepare to avoid the auto deployment of the pax mask when cabin altitude is above the usual threshold they are set.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-05-02 15:37:30 and read 14951 times.

YYC's new parallel runway due for completion in 2014 will be Canada's longest at 14,000 ft. The existing longest runway at YYC is currently Canada's longest at 12,675 ft. YYC elevation 3,557 ft. ASL.

GVA's single runway is the longest in Switzerland at 12,795 ft, about 650 ft. longer than the longest runway at ZRH.

[Edited 2013-05-02 16:02:20]

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: gr8circle
Posted 2013-05-02 15:48:38 and read 14753 times.

So, I'm sure Dubai will wait a little longer and look around and then build the longest runway in the world, which no other airport can (or would care to) beat...   

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2013-05-02 15:53:26 and read 14687 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
YYC's new parallel runway due for completion in 2014 will be Canada's longest at 14,000 ft. The existing longest runway at YYC is currently Canada's longest at 12,675 ft. YYC elevation 3,557 ft. ASL.

I might add that SLC has plans to extend Runway 16L-34R to 15,500' (4,724m) in the very near future. SLC is the second highest high passenger volume airport in the U.S. after DEN.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: tropical
Posted 2013-05-02 16:04:07 and read 14515 times.

On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: scouseflyer
Posted 2013-05-02 16:07:43 and read 14468 times.

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s#Transoceanic_Abort_Landing_Sites

Sites included RAF Fairford, Zaragoza and Moron airbase

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: deltacto
Posted 2013-05-02 16:09:54 and read 14432 times.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 16):
Another interesting fact is that in places like La Paz (Bolivia) when in ground the F/O go for walk around and the captain stays in the cockpit with the Oxygen mask on to avoid altitude sickness and planes has to be specially prepare to avoid the auto deployment of the pax mask when cabin altitude is above the usual threshold they are set.

A Braniff DC-8-62 almost crashed at La Paz in 1974 because the pilots failed to use oxygen prior to calculating the takeoff speed

Oxygen Pre-Breathing For Pilots At La Paz? (by mrskyguy Aug 5 2010 in Tech Ops)

La Paz Bolivia Operations (by Levg79 Feb 7 2006 in Tech Ops)

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-05-02 17:30:13 and read 13727 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):

Quoting Andrensn (Thread starter):
in the world

=

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 4):
Denver Intl. has the longest civilian one in North America

 

that's why the NFL champions are world champions!!  

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2013-05-02 17:45:56 and read 13573 times.

This reminds me of another topic that I've been meaning to ask about: procedures for operating at very high airports. Case in point, the El Alto Airport in Bolivia. Took this picture while we were landing, still in the air:



That is almost four kilometer barometric altitude, inside the cabin. The airport altitude is 4069 meters. As we were descending, the cabin altitude kept increasing!

How do the pilots deal with this situation? Oxygen masks on? And why does the cabin altitude get normalized before landing, why not normalize it to the outside environment *after* landing?

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: BreninTW
Posted 2013-05-02 18:07:22 and read 13955 times.

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

Upington was one of the designated runways. UTN has a 4,900 m runway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upington_Airport

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: ADent
Posted 2013-05-02 18:20:36 and read 13992 times.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 24):
And why does the cabin altitude get normalized before landing, why not normalize it to the outside environment *after* landing?

The pressure has to be equalized before landing in case of an emergency. Basically all aircraft doors are sealed by the pressure differential and if the pressure is not equalized they physically can not be opened.

It would be terrible if there was a fire on landing and the plane was still pressurized.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-05-02 18:26:35 and read 14024 times.

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian?

In an emergency, any runway of at least 10,000' was fair game. DFW was often mentioned as an alternate for low-energy situations.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-05-02 18:32:28 and read 13876 times.

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
Were any of them civilian?

I believe that Banjul, The Gambia was an emergency landing site for the shuttle.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: beechtobus
Posted 2013-05-02 19:37:14 and read 13113 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):

so the tread should have been closed after the second reply when you answered the OPs question? over yourself man, its a discussion forum.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-05-02 23:44:19 and read 10169 times.

It was merely amusing...

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 29):
the tread

Good pun if it was intended. Tyres are often the limiting factor at high altitude airports...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
J'berg has one 16,000 feet.

Umm, nope. If you're referring to JNB, then it has 'only' 4418m/14,495feet as its longest (03L/21R). Airfield elevation of 5558' amsl.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: thesultanofwing
Posted 2013-05-02 23:50:24 and read 10097 times.

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 29):
it's a discussion forum.

Agreed!

So let me add this to the thread: I think the new Quito airport has the longest runway in Latin America.
Correct?

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: tonymctigue
Posted 2013-05-03 03:14:50 and read 7636 times.

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

Shannon (SNN), Ireland was one such airport with a 3,200 m runway at an elevation of 14 m.

[Edited 2013-05-03 03:15:17]

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-03 04:32:59 and read 6651 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 30):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):J'berg has one 16,000 feet.
Umm, nope. If you're referring to JNB, then it has 'only' 4418m/14,495feet as its longest (03L/21R). Airfield elevation of 5558' amsl.

So I was 1000 feet too generous. JNB or J'berg, there is only one commercial airport in Johannesburg ?

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: breiz
Posted 2013-05-03 07:10:45 and read 5783 times.

Wait a sec, isn't it the Nazca runways in Peru which are the longest?   

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: tp1040
Posted 2013-05-03 07:37:39 and read 5682 times.

Threshold length looks to be about 13,700 feet.

Who has the longest runway in terms of threshold length?

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: woodreau
Posted 2013-05-03 07:57:15 and read 5604 times.

Quoting speedbird2263 (Reply 12):
You wont see any CRJ's in there anytime soon...well...ever  . Flap extension altitude limit for the entire line of CRJ aircraft is 15,000ft. We have issues as is with crews remembering that limit flying in the West(USA) in the higher elevations as downwind for some arpts is close to 15,000ft. The AFM also states a max operating airport pressure altitude of 8000ft.

There is a mod that ups the max takeoff and landing pressure altitude to 9600ft.

But it is something when you're configuring for landing at 15,000ft. Flaps, gear, flaps 45, increase the power to maintain alittude just as you hit the first detent. Max cruise just to hold pattern altitude.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: SP90
Posted 2013-05-03 10:38:08 and read 5321 times.

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

Check this out there is a whole list of abort sites available. I know they're all retire now but if they ever had to abort into JFK or another equally busy airport the ATC recordings would be interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_abort_modes

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Aesma
Posted 2013-05-03 11:35:08 and read 5144 times.

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

For transatlantic abort (the one that was most likely to happen, after orbital abort) there were two runways in Spain, one in France at Istres-Le Tubé Air Base. That latest one had a runway extension built for Airbus for testing purposes (used for both civilian and military tests, I think the various tail dragging tests are done there, max weight RTO, there is also equipment to wet the runway) and as such has the longest runway in Europe with 4950m/16200ft.

More runways were available but I think some were "more ready", with NASA tracking equipment and personnel manning them.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-05-03 12:12:48 and read 5040 times.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 3):
Qamdo Bamda Airport (IATA: BPX, ICAO: ZUBD), also known as Changdu Bangda Airport, located in Bamda, Qamdo, Tibet, China is the highest airport in the world, at an elevation of 4,334 metres (14,219 ft).[1] It has the longest publicly used runway in the world, at 5,500 m (18,045 ft)

Google maps show that about 4200 feet is unusable, even as a taxiway.

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: sandyb123
Posted 2013-05-03 12:37:19 and read 4948 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 33):
So I was 1000 feet too generous. JNB or J'berg, there is only one commercial airport in Johannesburg ?

JNB is the main airport and the long north south right runway is 14,500ft. I was sitting watching the planes go at JNB last week and noticed that most of the aircraft (even the widebody's) were using only the first half of the runway for T/O rolls.

Jo'burg also has Lanseria International Airport HLA but it's really only for regional flights into Southern Africa and the Cape.

Sandyb123

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: by738
Posted 2013-05-03 15:22:35 and read 4672 times.

Wasn't Campbeltown Scotland a Shuttle diversion runway albeit then quasi civil/ military

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: LV
Posted 2013-05-03 15:45:52 and read 4597 times.

Quoting cornutt (Reply 27):
In an emergency, any runway of at least 10,000' was fair game. DFW was often mentioned as an alternate for low-energy situations.

Ah, I thought I heard IND was a possible diverision point if needed.... so that would make sense if it's any runway over 10k

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: Pihero
Posted 2013-05-03 16:00:35 and read 4552 times.

This wiki article answers the question for runways over 4 km long :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_runway

Topic: RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-05-03 21:38:12 and read 4199 times.

Quoting SP90 (Reply 37):
Check this out there is a whole list of abort sites available. I know they're all retire now but if they ever had to abort into JFK or another equally busy airport the ATC recordings would be interesting.

For most of the post-Challenger period, the four designated TAL sites were, from south to north:

Banjul, The Gambia
Ben Guerir, Morocco
Moron, Spain
Zaragosa, Spain

For a given mission, one was designate primary and one alternate, depending on the orbit inclination. Either the primary or the alternate had to have observed and predicted "go" weather in order for the Shuttle to be go for launch. Moron was not as well equipped as the others and so it was never primary, although it could be an alternate.

There were also two sites designated as "late TAL" sites; these were Anderson AFB in Guam, and Hickham AFB in Hawaii. Late TAL was not an abort mode that would ever be required for an engine failure case; it was for certain systems cases in which the failure occurred after the last standard TAL opportunity, but required the earliest possible landing time. For instance, if a total cooling failure or severe loss of cabin pressure occurred and the Shuttle had already flown too far to land at the designated TAL site, it would land at a late TAL site.


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