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Topic: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-03 08:48:14 and read 12467 times.

A joint venture of Turkish companies have won the tender for Istanbul's new airport.

The Cengiz-Kolin-Limak-Mapa-Kalyon Consortium offered the government €22.1 billion for a 25-year franchise to operate the airport commencing in 2017.

Cengiz-Kolin-Limak-Mapa-Kalyon Consortium beat out the other finalist which were IC-FRAport, TAV Holdings(current IST operator), and another Turkish firm Makyol.

The BOT (build-operate-transfer) project, will be built in four stages, with the government guaranteeing minimum amount of passengers and tariff levels for the operator.

The first phase of construction is set to take 42 months, to be completed in 2017, and provide an initial capacity of 90 million passengers a year. Once all phases are complete the airport will feature 6-runways, and 165 gates at the terminal.

Story:
http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=108069
and
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/con...38&nID=46153&NewsCatID=344

=

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-05-03 09:08:19 and read 12390 times.

The expansion of Aviation in Turkey in recent years is quite phenomenal.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-05-03 09:46:18 and read 12282 times.

The growth in Turkey in general - both economic and political has been impressive.


So does this mean airport construction will begin imminently?

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-05-03 10:16:21 and read 12211 times.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 2):
So does this mean airport construction will begin imminently?

It will have to be fairly soon; 2017 is only for years ago and that's very ambitious for a project of this size.

I assume that the design of the airport has already been finalised, so it's really a matter of moving in the bulldozers and construction equipment.

Are there any plans/diagrams available online?

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: ImperialAero
Posted 2013-05-03 10:24:43 and read 12185 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
I assume that the design of the airport has already been finalised, so it's really a matter of moving in the bulldozers and construction equipment.

HA! Nope.

Proposed configurations will have been investigated, but no final decision made...remember they designed, built and constructed a ~25Mppa Terminal at SAW in around 18months. The site of the new airport has a massive amount of earthworks required before they can even begin to start building anything so that's a good 18 months of time to do the masterplanning and design before they can start laying concrete, the critical thing to decide though is what the levels of the runways, and hence the required amount of earthworks need to be.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: United787
Posted 2013-05-03 10:39:08 and read 12100 times.

Have they planned for a rail link between the new airport and the city?

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: toxtethogrady
Posted 2013-05-03 10:44:21 and read 12066 times.

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 4):
HA! Nope.

I tried to do a Google search on the consortium partners. They don't appear to be big airport operators the way TAV is, so I wonder if they are going to have to import or recruit some airport planning and design expertise to their team. You have to start somewhere, but a 22 billion Euro airport is an incredible gamble.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-03 11:07:30 and read 11990 times.

Some more info out from the tender:

Stage 1 = 2017:
- Main terminal with 680,000sq meter
- Additional satellite building 170,000sq meter - the total capacity of both terminals will be 90mil passengers per year
- 88 jetway contact gates
- Car park for 42,000 cars
- three independent runways
- 3.1mil sq meter apron

Stage 2 = 2019
- additional terminal - 200,000 sq meter
- additional runway + additional high speed taxiways for existing runways
- additional 1mil sq meter apron

Stage 3 = 2021
- additional terminal - 200,000 sq meter
- additional runway + taxiway systems
- additional 1mil sq meter apron

Stage 4 = 2025
- additional terminal - 250,000 sq meter
- additional runway + additional taxiways
- Additional 0.9mil sq meter apron

Key facts:
- 1.5mil sq terminal space area
- Capacity of 150mil passengers per year
- 6 runways (4 parallel + 2 crosswind parallel) all VLA capable
- 165 jetway contact gates
- intra-terminal rail connection
- 3 separate maintenance hangar areas
- 8 cargo ramp areas
- Apron space for 500 aircraft spread over 6.5mil sq meters
- Direct airport auto parking lots for 70,000 cars
- Additional adjacent facilities including hospital, hotels, mosque, congress center, waste recycling and water treatment facility.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Are there any plans/diagrams available online?

Image from news paper.

Quoting United787 (Reply 6):
Have they planned for a rail link between the new airport and the city?

Yes.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-03 11:29:50 and read 11928 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Image from news paper.

Where do runways #5 and #6 go? And that image should be oriented about South. (Please correct if that's off.) I'm assuming the two other runways are to the left (I assume East)?

Its also a slightly different layout than expected. I thought we would see pairs of runways near the terminals with other runways 'further out.' Although, this layout will be easier to expand...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
- three independent runways

Nice start!    Just about right IMHO for the time frame.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Stage 2 = 2019
- additional terminal - 200,000 sq meter

Wow.. I was going to comment that Stage 1 wasn't ambitious enough until I noted Stage 2 completes only two years later!    Now that is good planning. Assuming the 20% growth per year continues (or restarts with the new airport capacity).

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
- Direct airport auto parking lots for 70,000 cars

How is that ratio of auto parking to number of passengers per year compared to other international airports? I respect the new IST will hub quite a bit, but I expected a few more parking spots.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: radiopolitic
Posted 2013-05-03 12:07:45 and read 11839 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Quoting United787 (Reply 6):
Have they planned for a rail link between the new airport and the city?

Yes.

Are we still expecting the 15mins from airport to Taksim as was once claimed?

[Edited 2013-05-03 12:08:18]

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: Northstar80
Posted 2013-05-03 12:27:20 and read 11772 times.

Quoting radiopolitic (Reply 10):
Are we still expecting the 15mins from airport to Taksim as was once claimed?

We're probably looking at 1 hour + 15 minutes   with the fastest possible transportation as the new airport is way far away from the city center.

€22.1 Billion is downright craziness, there is no way they can make €1 billion a year to pay the rent on top of the construction and operating costs. This will turn out to be a disaster - and will probably be financed by the taxpayer later on during the project when government will bail out the crazy consortium.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-03 13:09:41 and read 11667 times.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 7):
I tried to do a Google search on the consortium partners. They don't appear to be big airport operators the way TAV is, so I wonder if they are going to have to import or recruit some airport planning and design expertise to their team.

Well Limak built Istanbul SAW airport which everyone seem to praise so they are not novices to the airport business.

Anyhow, I am sure the consortiums can bring in subcontractors or subject matter experts as needed.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
Where do runways #5 and #6 go? And that image should be oriented about South. (Please correct if that's off.) I'm assuming the two other runways are to the left (I assume East)?

Found this published diagram but it only shows a single crosswind runway, so there was probably a subsequent change.

http://i.imgur.com/46GYQOc.jpg

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
How is that ratio of auto parking to number of passengers per year compared to other international airports? I respect the new IST will hub quite a bit, but I expected a few more parking spots.

They say 70,000 airport specific parking spots, so I suppose they also probably envisage off airport lots run my private companies that acquire their own land.
But in Turkey many will reach the airport via rail, bus, or taxi as well.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-05-03 13:36:02 and read 11612 times.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 11):
€22.1 Billion is downright craziness, there is no way they can make €1 billion a year to pay the rent on top of the construction and operating costs. This will turn out to be a disaster - and will probably be financed by the taxpayer later on during the project when government will bail out the crazy consortium.

Under BOT model, the airport will become the governments eventually (25-years in this case) anyhow.

So i the consortium defaults a few years early the government simply gets the airport earlier.

I don't forsee problems with running the facility by even the government as long as it gets built without issues first.
So as long as Cengiz-Kolin-Limak-Mapa-Kalyon builts it first, whatever happens to them after probably not end of world. Also once built, I bet there would be a 100 companies that would be happy to manage terminals day to day.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: radiopolitic
Posted 2013-05-03 13:58:50 and read 11554 times.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 11):
We're probably looking at 1 hour + 15 minutes   with the fastest possible transportation as the new airport is way far away from the city center.

Of course we are. The 15min offered was a ridiculous standard to try towards.

I still think this is a horrible location for the airport but I guess it's a reality now.

[Edited 2013-05-03 13:59:26]

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-03 14:03:25 and read 11537 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
But in Turkey many will reach the airport via rail, bus, or taxi as well.

In cities where I've had the option, direct rail connections to the airport are fantastic...for me, easily the best way to get to get there.

You don't hear much about Turkey but it's a place that's quietly growing at a fantastic rate...and the same goes for TK. It's just going to keep growing and getting the new IST going shows some good forward thinking. There will be the inevitable delays so the sooner started, the better.

I think TK is the real competition for the Gulf 3. With the huge amount of O&D traffic to Turkey, and an ideal transfer location, they really have a hard to beat combination to really kick some airline butt in a few years.

For now, they are flying under the radar...but I suspect not for long.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: TK787
Posted 2013-05-03 16:45:53 and read 11240 times.

Wow, 22 million euros...
Now the real work starts.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 15):
they are flying under the radar...

Current fleet of 217
Orders for another 214
Options for 68, All this will in by 2020.

TK carrying 46million pax this year with this fleet size, could be carrying 90million by 2020.

Someone start building now!

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-03 18:44:46 and read 10847 times.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 15):
Current fleet of 217
Orders for another 214
Options for 68, All this will in by 2020.

...and a very balanced fleet from both manufacturers...picking exactly the right plane for the job without worry about playing favourites.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2013-05-03 19:52:19 and read 10671 times.

Wow. I guess this settles the question of the A380 order...

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-05-03 20:00:04 and read 10644 times.

Dear United Kingdom,

This is how you solve your airport capacity problems.

Signed
Turkey

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-03 20:49:07 and read 10508 times.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 18):

You owe me a new keyboard.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-05-03 23:26:42 and read 10120 times.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 15):

Wow, 22 million euros...
Now the real work starts.

lol - i'm sure it was a typo. Not an M but a B .... x1000 

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: TK787
Posted 2013-05-04 01:10:25 and read 9772 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 20):
Not an M but a B .... x1000

Yes, my typo, Billion.

From the news right after the tender; The construction might start by next year and first phase compilation by 2018.
Hope this works out, it is going to be a very challenging project.
The other part of the puzzle, who is going to build roads, mass transit to this airport which is miles away from population centers. When completed they are expecting 100,000 cars to travel to the new airport daily and they are expecting a total of 850,000kg of garbage daily.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-04 04:57:40 and read 9094 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Found this published diagram but it only shows a single crosswind runway, so there was probably a subsequent change.

Thank you. I agree, there probably was a change. I'm simply excited by the scale of the new airport. It seems neither too small nor too large.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 15):
TK carrying 46million pax this year with this fleet size, could be carrying 90million by 2020.

Someone start building now!

Whenever I consider TK's growth, I wonder how they can manage with the current infrastructure. While Stage 1 will be needed earlier than its scheduled completion date, the growth stages seem at about the right rate.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 18):
Dear United Kingdom,

This is how you solve your airport capacity problems.

   Well played sir. If only more economies took their airport capacity constraints as seriously as Turkey/Istanbul has.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: MeCe
Posted 2013-05-04 05:03:42 and read 9068 times.

Hope this project will not turn a nightmare. Do a simple math, OR-GI airport at blacksea requires 6.500.000m3 of landfill and they can't complete it in 2 years. This airport needs to a massive 2.500.000.000 m3 of landfill which is mostly in forests and water basin area of İstanbul's water supply area. Besides area is selection completely wrong, due to size of enormous landfill, it is nearly impossible to complete on time and budget this project. But never mind, taxpayers will pay happily this project because they have biggest airport. Kanal İstanbul and 3rd airport is only ego driven and completely wrong two projects may kill all development of 10 years

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: KaiTak747
Posted 2013-05-04 05:31:42 and read 8964 times.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 18):

We better start saving up!

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: TK105
Posted 2013-05-04 06:38:33 and read 8877 times.

Quoting MeCe (Reply 23):

I also did a small math for the financial side:

Franchise Cost
22.1 bn Euro

VAT (%18)
4 bn Euro

Construction Cost
10 bn Euro

Financial Cost of Construction (average 3% annual, 75% for 25 years)
7.5 bn Euro

Total Initial Cost
43.6 bn Euro
1.75 bn Euro for each year over 25 years

Annual Operational Cost (I checked TAVHL costs which incl IST+ESB+ADB and considered x2 for this larger airport)
1.8 bn Euro / year

Total Annual Cost
3.55 bn Euro / year

Considering that on average 120M passengers annually uses new airport over 25 years, Contractor will break even if revenue per passenger is 30 Euro.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: radiopolitic
Posted 2013-05-04 06:53:48 and read 8792 times.

Quoting MeCe (Reply 23):
is only ego driven

  

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: Northstar80
Posted 2013-05-04 12:41:03 and read 8382 times.

Quoting TK105 (Reply 25):
Considering that on average 120M passengers annually uses new airport over 25 years, Contractor will break even if revenue per passenger is 30 Euro.

Good calculation! I wonder what is the current IST revenue per passenger, or other large airports..

Quoting MeCe (Reply 23):
Kanal İstanbul and 3rd airport is only ego driven and completely wrong two projects may kill all development of 10 years

Couldnt have said better. Waste of money/resources and most important, trees.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-04 13:23:34 and read 8341 times.

According to TAV presentation I have, they made 15.70 EUR per passenger at IST in 2010 just from sales commission fees from all the vendors at the airport.
So EUR 30 seems quite plausible via combination of ticket taxes, airline charges, rental fees plus the improved commission sales.

Also don't forget the government (as it does for TAV at ESB and ADB today) will guarantee a minimum level of revenue for the franchise operator regardless of what actual traffic figures produce.

Topic: RE: New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-05-04 15:44:24 and read 8213 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Also don't forget the government (as it does for TAV at ESB and ADB today) will guarantee a minimum level of revenue for the franchise operator regardless of what actual traffic figures produce.

And that guarantee sums up to 6.3bn euros for the first 12 years of operation, which falls way short of the bid value.

We all want a new airport for Istanbul, but a vanity project that may become a burden we do not... I wish tenders were not awarded solely on price.


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