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Topic: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: AirbusGeek
Posted 2013-05-08 12:25:13 and read 27665 times.

Hi!

Quick question: What will happen to US Airways' Airbus A330s after the US/AA Merger?

Thanks!

AirbusGeek

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2013-05-08 12:28:32 and read 27668 times.

They will continue to fly, albeit with American titles

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: etops1
Posted 2013-05-08 12:45:33 and read 27467 times.

A330's will stay . They stayed at Delta . They will stay at the new AA.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-05-08 12:51:09 and read 27400 times.

There is a new one about to be delivered (though already painted in current US colours).

Any idea when the first US aircraft will be painted in the new AA colours - or do we know yet if the new colours are being retained?

(Is AA still repainting acft into the new c/s?)

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-05-08 13:01:27 and read 27269 times.

Quoting AirbusGeek (Thread starter):


Quick question: What will happen to US Airways' Airbus A330s after the US/AA Merger?

They'll get repainted with American on the side and probably get new seat covers. The US Airways business class is almost identical to the new American business class that rolled out on the 777-300ERs.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: etops1
Posted 2013-05-08 13:35:50 and read 26935 times.

You will not see any painting of US aircraft into AA livery until after merger closing which is scheduled to be on Aug 31 (Subject to change).So expect an aggressive rebranding on the USAirways side in September 2013 .

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: infiniti329
Posted 2013-05-08 13:38:54 and read 26874 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
The US Airways business class is almost identical to the new American business class that rolled out on the 777-300ERs.


Merly by coincidence or done on purpose?

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-05-08 13:40:43 and read 26858 times.

And considering that the combined airline will be run by US management, I predict that Airbus will be the primary manufacturer for the combined airline and that AA's existing Boeing orders will be cancelled in favor of more Airbus orders.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: flashmeister
Posted 2013-05-08 14:07:37 and read 26562 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
And considering that the combined airline will be run by US management, I predict that Airbus will be the primary manufacturer for the combined airline and that AA's existing Boeing orders will be cancelled in favor of more Airbus orders.

Total rubbish. In fact, being larger makes it more important to send business to both sides. AA by itself even said that no single source could produce enough to meet its demands, a problem that just gets larger once you add US in.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-05-08 14:09:40 and read 26534 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
And considering that the combined airline will be run by US management, I predict that Airbus will be the primary manufacturer for the combined airline and that AA's existing Boeing orders will be cancelled in favor of more Airbus orders.

Oh no, I hope you aren’t serious. This reminds me of the countless number of people who think United is run by the Continental management and therefore any decisions made by pre-merger United leadership are no longer applicable and the new airline will be all Boeing forever.

I don’t see the AA 737 and 777 orders disappearing. They just firmed up the 787 order in January, so I don’t see that going anywhere. The A330s are great airplanes, and they also have a lot of Boeing widebodies on order too.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2013-05-08 14:15:51 and read 26426 times.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 6):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):The US Airways business class is almost identical to the new American business class that rolled out on the 777-300ERs.

Merly by coincidence or done on purpose?

Although people probably don't want to hear or admit it, US was the first airline to launch these type of seats back in 2009, 3 years before AA, and a couple years ahead of DL/CX/LH and whoever else currently has the Cirus model.

While they aren't identical, the new AA seats are pretty close to the present US A330 seats.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-05-08 14:16:05 and read 26395 times.

Probably a number of flights will be cut as a result of the merger, so keeping the A330s might be part of a strategy to accelerate the retirement of older 767ERs. I recently flew PHL-CDG on a US A333 and I found it to be very comfortable and in great shape of maintenance and repair. It will certainly be good for the new AA to have a few of these birds.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: chepos
Posted 2013-05-08 15:13:20 and read 25435 times.

I'm sure the 330's will be a handy aircraft for medium/long haul routes that might require more lift than a 763 but not enough to warrant a 772 (once converted to a 2 class layout). It will also be a handy aircraft for hauls that require heavy cargo lift.

The Boeing orders aren't going anywere, come on now!

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-08 15:17:41 and read 25336 times.

Quoting chepos (Reply 12):
I'm sure the 330's will be a handy aircraft for medium/long haul routes that might require more lift than a 763 but not enough to warrant a 772 (once converted to a 2 class layout). It will also be a handy aircraft for hauls that require heavy cargo lift.

I actually think many 330s may stay in PHL as the 330 fits the PHL market well. The 772 may be too large for many routes save LHR and MAD.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-05-08 15:19:33 and read 25316 times.

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 8):
Total rubbish. In fact, being larger makes it more important to send business to both sides.

   Look where Delta is now. People were saying they'd offload the Airbus fleet as soon as possible; now the A330's are undergoing cabin upgrades.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-05-08 15:20:03 and read 25266 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 13):
I actually think many 330s may stay in PHL as the 330 fits the PHL market well.

I think the A330s will go to JFK and MIA while the 763s move to PHL. The new AA might reconfigure some of their 763s to two class, which would better suit many of PHL's International flights.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-05-08 15:22:11 and read 25229 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
And considering that the combined airline will be run by US management, I predict that Airbus will be the primary manufacturer for the combined airline and that AA's existing Boeing orders will be cancelled in favor of more Airbus orders.


  

That is ridiculous.

First off, the management will be a mix of both companies. Second, the composition of the management team is meaningless in this case since this resulting airline is going to be so large that committing all of their business to a single manufacturer would be stupid, anyway, and any management team worth anything will know that. Witness the AA order of July 2011 to see why airlines benefit from doing business with both manufacturers: AA, an airline on the verge of bankruptcy, was able to pit the two manufacturers against each other so effectively as to get insanely favorable deals from both. There is absolutely no logical reason why that would not continue going forward, regardless of who the CEO is.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):
Probably a number of flights will be cut as a result of the merger, so keeping the A330s might be part of a strategy to accelerate the retirement of older 767ERs.

  

I suspect the A330s will figure prominently in the widebody fleet rationalization. With respect specifically to the widebodies, priority #1 post-merger will likely be to get the US 767s parked ASAP - likely accelerating the plan US already had in place. The inevitable network and fleet optimization following the merger will likely facilitate this acceleration. Beyond that, I could also definitely see some shifting - like 12-18 months after the merger close - of widebodies among the hubs. There are PMUS longhaul markets like CLT-FRA and PHL-DUB that I think would probably be perfect for PMAA 767-300ERs post-merger, and likewise there are PMAA longhaul markets like JFK-BCN and MIA-GIG that would probably be a good fit for the PMUS A330s post merger.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: delawareusa
Posted 2013-05-08 15:22:45 and read 25214 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):
I recently flew PHL-CDG on a US A333 and I found it to be very comfortable and in great shape of maintenance and repair. It will certainly be good for the new AA to have a few of these birds.

PHL-CDG is normally on one of their new A330-200, which are in very good shape. The A330-300 were in rough shape when I used to fly them frequently a few years ago.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-05-08 15:25:02 and read 25169 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):

I think the A330s will go to JFK and MIA while the 763s move to PHL. The new AA might reconfigure some of their 763s to two class, which would better suit many of PHL's International flights.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 763s in PHL, but they are already 2 class, so other than getting flat business seats, I don't know how they would be reconfigured. The A330s likely will move around and may switch hubs, but they might stay in PHL. The A332s could replace some 763s to South America where cargo is in demand.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: B777LRF
Posted 2013-05-08 15:25:34 and read 25172 times.

It is probably not unfair to assume flight ops at AA have already had a look at the numbers for the A330, and passed same on to their route planning boffins. Likewise, it is very plausible both of those departments have said 'not bad for a frog piece of plastique, can we have some more please?'. You know, akin to what every other airline on the planet operating the things have discovered: Used wisely it's a money printing machine, just like the 77W.

Expect AA/US to be operating sizeable fleets of both the A350 and 777X, neo and MAX, etc. - even considering going single source as the largest airline in the world is absurd.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jetsetter629
Posted 2013-05-08 15:39:27 and read 24913 times.

Just look what DL has done with their long-haul flying since merging with NW. They have opened up many more destinations because they have aircrafts flying overseas from the 744 to the 752 and everything in between. I don't think it's wise for an airline to have the same fleet for long haul flying because not all markets have equal demand...

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-05-08 15:47:18 and read 24763 times.

The 330s will stay for a while and it wouldn't suprise me to see a swap of
330s to MIA & JFK for some 763s or 777s.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-05-08 15:55:01 and read 24610 times.

Perhaps the A330s would see some use out of MIA to some of those Caribbean, Central and South American cities that used to see the A300s. As we always used to hear around here, AA moved a lot of cargo with the A300 in those markets and now they're down to (mostly) 757s and 738s.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-05-08 16:02:53 and read 24502 times.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 6):
Merly by coincidence or done on purpose?

Let's not start the whole "Doug Parker was involved in this decision" nonsense again. If anything, AA was trying to equal CX's product.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
The new AA might reconfigure some of their 763s to two class,

There's no need to reconfigure as all of AA's 763's are currently two class. Only the domestic 762's are three class.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-05-08 16:33:49 and read 24065 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):

Before AA retired the A300s they flew them internationally to PAP, MGA, SJU
SDQ, CCS, BOG, & LIM.

All those flights left full every day on the 300s especially freight.

I think the 330s would do good on the BOG & LIM flights if they
do in fact fly from MIA.

Maybe replace the 763s on the MIA/ LAX run with a 330   

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: DesertFlyer
Posted 2013-05-08 16:58:16 and read 24817 times.

Quoting delawareusa (Reply 17):
The A330-300 were in rough shape when I used to fly them frequently a few years ago.

All US A333s have been refurbed to have the same cabin as the A332s. Pretty decent hard product, IMO. The only negative is the lack of an adjustable headrest in Y.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-05-08 17:03:48 and read 24781 times.

Quoting delawareusa (Reply 17):
PHL-CDG is normally on one of their new A330-200, which are in very good shape. The A330-300 were in rough shape when I used to fly them frequently a few years ago.

I was quite pleasantly surprised when I saw that my flight would be operated with an A333, as it is a rare type for someone based out of MEX like me. I was even more surprised when I saw the aircraft was in such good shape, clean, and with the more than decent AVOD that US offers.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 24):
Before AA retired the A300s they flew them internationally to PAP, MGA, SJU
SDQ, CCS, BOG, & LIM.

At some point one of the several daily rotations of MIA-MEX was done with A300s, so it'd be great to see AA reinstate widebody service to MEX from MIA at some point... I don't expect that to happen though.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-08 17:06:21 and read 25327 times.

The US A333 will stay on the est coast because they are older versions with less range then today's A333. DFW or Miami would be challenging for US A333, SWISS and Lufthansa A333 are more capable that due fly to MIA. ITS most likely the US A333 flet will stay based at PHL and CLT. The A332 could see some DFW or Miami action to Europe, Santiago, Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires. Short haul A300 type flying died with the A300 fleet.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-08 18:08:25 and read 24211 times.

Quoting delawareusa (Reply 17):
The A330-300 were in rough shape when I used to fly them frequently a few years ago.

They have since seen a cabin refresh, or at least in envoy.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
I think the A330s will go to JFK and MIA while the 763s move to PHL.

US
762 18/186
332 20/238
333 28/268

AA
763 30/195
772 16/34/194 (going 2 class?)
773 8/52/250

One thing to note is that the 330s have a rather small premium cabin

The 763s can be a good replacement for existing 762/752 routes as those two exit the fleet. (Aren't US' 752s due to be retired soon?). Though I think a decent number of markets will retain 330s.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: nomorerjs
Posted 2013-05-08 18:10:09 and read 24111 times.

I would hope to see them here at DFW and my home town airport ORD!

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: MSYPI7185
Posted 2013-05-08 18:11:47 and read 24253 times.

US is taking delivery of 2 A332's this month IIRC. That is unless they have already received this this past week and I missed it.

The A330's IMO are staying, with the 762's being retired fairly soon after the merger. US had plans to take new A332's and use them to expand Intl flying. If the economy was such that expansion did not make sense at that particular time the A332's would then replace 762's.

I personally would not be surprised to see an expansion of US A350 orders, especially if the A350 launch goes as smoothly as I hope it will. If not and major delays ensure as what happened with the 787's, I believe that more A330's will be ordered or leased, unless AA has some other widebodies on order other than 777 or 787's I am not aware of.

Later
MD

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: zeke
Posted 2013-05-08 18:20:32 and read 24071 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):

And considering that the combined airline will be run by US management, I predict that Airbus will be the primary manufacturer for the combined airline and that AA's existing Boeing orders will be cancelled in favor of more Airbus orders.

Do not see that happening. It was not United that decided on the couple of hundred A320/A320neo series.

We have had conspiracy theories going on for years about how AA will never operate Airbus aircraft again after AA587, where are these people now ?

Time will tell what they will do, I see some consolation and updates in the 757/767/A330/772/787/A350 combined fleets.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-05-08 18:24:42 and read 23904 times.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 30):
I personally would not be surprised to see an expansion of US A350 orders, especially if the A350 launch goes as smoothly as I hope it will. If not and major delays ensure as what happened with the 787's, I believe that more A330's will be ordered or leased, unless AA has some other widebodies on order other than 777 or 787's I am not aware of.

I'm not sure about an immediate expansion of the order, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the A358s converted to A359s. The combined airline doesn't really need them (A358s) as much with all their 787s on order. I honestly don't see really any new orders for the A330- between the existing A330 orders/fleet, 763 fleet, the 787 order and the A350 order I don't think they would be in a rush to continue to expand their fleet in that size segment in the near term vs waiting for additional 787s/A350s.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-05-08 19:16:13 and read 23290 times.

Hi:

The planes will stay at AA. They will probably get moved to MIA, JFK mostly. PHL A330s will likely be replaced with AA 767-300s. Hope this helps.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-05-08 19:18:50 and read 23278 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
I predict that Airbus will be the primary manufacturer for the combined airline and that AA's existing Boeing orders will be cancelled in favor of more Airbus orders.

AA will pay a massive penalty if they do that.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: questions
Posted 2013-05-08 19:42:13 and read 22889 times.

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 20):
Just look what DL has done with their long-haul flying since merging with NW. They have opened up many more destinations because they have aircrafts flying overseas from the 744 to the 752 and everything in between.

What non-US destinations has Delta opened up since merging with NW that could not have been opened up prior to the merger?

The fleet/network rationalization so far has helped the new DL better match route demand with the right equipment.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: nutsaboutplanes
Posted 2013-05-08 20:19:29 and read 22437 times.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 30):
US is taking delivery of 2 A332's this month IIRC. That is unless they have already received this this past week and I missed it.

This is correct, one aircraft this Friday and the the other next Friday (subject to change) along with two new A321's for the East Fleet by the end of May.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: AirbusGeek
Posted 2013-05-09 00:25:47 and read 20217 times.

Thanks everyone!

You have definitely answered my question!

But now what will happen to the A350s on order with US?

AirbusGeek

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-05-09 00:36:39 and read 20091 times.

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 20):

Just a note.

Pretty sure Delta is down in destinations. They just keep cutting and cutting across the Atlantic. (thank goodness for that JV.  )

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-09 04:28:30 and read 17664 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 33):
The planes will stay at AA. They will probably get moved to MIA, JFK mostly. PHL A330s will likely be replaced with AA 767-300s. Hope this helps.

Why does every one want to move AA 767 to PHL and CLT and US A330's to Miami and JFK. A330 flying to the Caribean a la A300 is an old concept and massive misuse of an A330 fleet, these planes need to ply the Atlantic or Brazil. Adding another type to the JFK fleet mix helps how ? AA flies their 777 to Tokyo, London and Sao Paulo loaded with cargo and many Business Class passengers, they don't need A330 help on those routes.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 28):
US
762 18/186
332 20/238
333 28/268

AA
763 30/195
772 16/34/194 (going 2 class?)
773 8/52/250

Moving A330's to Miami and JFK creates another issue, too few Business Class seats. AA's new 773ER has 52 j class seats and US A333 has only 28, half as many. US A330's are suited to their current hubs and should stay there. IF a new route beyond the range of the A330, PHL to NRT say, then an AA 777 could step in. Miami and JFK work so don't fix what ain't broke.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: smi0006
Posted 2013-05-09 04:37:36 and read 17464 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
There is a new one about to be delivered (though already painted in current US colours).

How many more do they have on order? In fact what does the US order book look like?

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
The US Airways business class is almost identical to the new American business class that rolled out on the 777-300ERs.

Will AA be fitting these same seats to their 772ER? Will either airline be fitting them to their 767s? They must have a bit of life left in them before the 787s arrive.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-05-09 04:55:27 and read 17168 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):
Why does every one want to move AA 767 to PHL and CLT and US A330's to Miami and JFK.

Because it seems to make sense. There are some markets from PHL/CLT - again, like PHL-DUB and CLT-FRA, where a 763 is probably just about the right level of capacity post-merger, while there are other markets at JFK/MIA where an A330 probably makes more sense. In addition, I also see 2-class AA 777s going to PHL/CLT, too - particularly for LHR.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):
Moving A330's to Miami and JFK creates another issue, too few Business Class seats.

Not necessarily. For some longhaul markets like JFK-FCO, MIA-BCN, etc., the larger J cabin may not be needed.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Ryefly
Posted 2013-05-09 05:26:44 and read 16659 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 41):
There are some markets from PHL/CLT - again, like PHL-DUB and CLT-FRA, where a 763 is probably just about the right level of capacity post-merger,

You do realize US currently has two non-stops a day on the CLT-FRA (A332 & A333) route? The loads are very stong on this route. If they downsize this route, it will be one flight a day with a 772 instead of two flights.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jetsetter629
Posted 2013-05-09 05:34:47 and read 16493 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 35):
What non-US destinations has Delta opened up since merging with NW that could not have been opened up prior to the merger?

I'm not saying they have been able to open more destinations, but they can use the 744 capasity to NRT while using the 77L range to open SYD and JNB. NW "could" have flown to both JNB and SYD, but the 744 would not have been the right aircraft.

Look at DL utilization to Latin America - they fly the A332 which opens up more cargo than the 763 - a good example is LIM

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-05-09 05:37:15 and read 16519 times.

Quoting Ryefly (Reply 42):
You do realize US currently has two non-stops a day on the CLT-FRA (A332 & A333) route? The loads are very stong on this route.

On some days this summer, CLT-FRA is double-daily A333.

They pick up a lot of German pax every day, especially among those who are going to Florida.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-05-09 05:39:51 and read 16561 times.

If I look at the US Airways fleet I see 9 A330-300 7 A330-200 and 10 B767-200 all together 28 wide bodies with two A330-200 being added this month. That is out of whole fleet number of 346 frames. 1 wide body to 11 narrow bodies.
That seems to me rather few wide bodies for a major airline but they are at least quite new.

Looking at AA they have 70 B767, 17 of them 15 years or younger, and 53 B777 + 9 on order out of a fleet of 620 airplanes.
That means 1 to 4 wide to narrow.

Combined fleet is about 1 wide body to 5 narrow bodies.


I would imagine that were this airlines had competing flights (similar time, same route), it would be economical to go to one and bigger frame.

I would say the combined fleet is in the need of quite a few midsized wide bodies. I know they ordered B787, but when will they come into the fleet? They need to change out 53 long toothed B767.
I could imagine there would be space for some more A330 before the B787s arrive.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-09 06:20:22 and read 15925 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 45):
If I look at the US Airways fleet I see 9 A330-300 7 A330-200 and 10 B767-200 all together 28 wide bodies with two A330-200 being added this month. That is out of whole fleet number of 346 frames. 1 wide body to 11 narrow bodies.
That seems to me rather few wide bodies for a major airline but they are at least quite new.

2 US 762s are due to be retired this year. Once the merger is complete and cross fleeting takes place I imagine the remaining frames will go pretty quickly.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 44):
On some days this summer, CLT-FRA is double-daily A333

CLT-Germany likely benefits from the big US hub in CLT. Take that out of the equation and if CLT-FRA stays it will likely be a 763.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-05-09 06:35:58 and read 15702 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 46):
CLT-Germany likely benefits from the big US hub in CLT. Take that out of the equation and if CLT-FRA stays it will likely be a 763.

If the CLT hub is dropped, I think CLT-FRA is done for entirely, at least on US/AA. Read the second line of my post (which you didn't include in your quote):

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 44):
On some days this summer, CLT-FRA is double-daily A333.

They pick up a lot of German pax every day, especially among those who are going to Florida.

The are a lot of German corporations with operations near CLT, but they tend to have strong ties to Lufthansa (and therefore Star Alliance). With US out of *A, I could see LH's MUC-CLT becoming FRA-CLT. Probably on an A343, like ATL or DFW.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: superjeff
Posted 2013-05-09 06:54:19 and read 15455 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
The US A333 will stay on the est coast because they are older versions with less range then today's A333. DFW or Miami would be challenging for US A333, SWISS and Lufthansa A333 are more capable that due fly to MIA. ITS most likely the US A333 flet will stay based at PHL and CLT. The A332 could see some DFW or Miami action to Europe, Santiago, Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires

Good grief! Again, for the umpteenth time, this is a takeover of AA by US. The Airbus fleet (which is relatively young) is not going anywhere. It operates very profitably for US, and will be profitable for the combined AA/US operation. The hard product is quite competitive with anything else out there and arguably better than some of their competition's both in J and Y (compare it to, say, Iberia, for example which is terrible in comparison). Yes, they may move some to South America (and maybe even some Asian/Hawaii routes), but they are modern, well equipped, and quite profitable to operate.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: superjeff
Posted 2013-05-09 06:56:00 and read 15387 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
I think the A330s will go to JFK and MIA while the 763s move to PHL. The new AA might reconfigure some of their 763s to two class, which would better suit many of PHL's International flights.

AA's 763's ARE two class. They haven't had F for years.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-09 07:12:13 and read 15203 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 47):
If the CLT hub is dropped, I think CLT-FRA is done for entirely, at least on US/AA. Read the second line of my post (which you didn't include in your quote):
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 47):
The are a lot of German corporations with operations near CLT, but they tend to have strong ties to Lufthansa (and therefore Star Alliance). With US out of *A, I could see LH's MUC-CLT becoming FRA-CLT. Probably on an A343, like ATL or DFW.

I really meant take US out of Star in the equation and those German paxs may just jump to LH/UA through other hubs as you allude to.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-05-09 08:20:46 and read 14293 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 50):
I really meant take US out of Star in the equation and those German paxs may just jump to LH/UA through other hubs as you allude to.

Ah, that's what you meant. In that scenario, I still see reasonable demand between Germany and the destinations US/AA serves/will serve via CLT, especially Florida. I think a reduction in capacity is a given, but moving to a single B763 seems too drastic. Yes, the route would lose feed on the FRA end, but there would still be feed on the CLT end.

You're right that the frequent flyers loyal to *A will likely stop flying with US (I know I will), but over here US takes a big portion of the "seldom flyer" market, so I don't think the alliance switch will hurt them that much, at least not in the German market.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-09 10:56:19 and read 12339 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 41):
Because it seems to make sense. There are some markets from PHL/CLT - again, like PHL-DUB and CLT-FRA, where a 763 is probably just about the right level of capacity post-merger, while there are other markets at JFK/MIA where an A330 probably makes more sense. In addition, I also see 2-class AA 777s going to PHL/CLT, too - particularly for LHR.

Dublin is flown by teh right airlplane right now, a 757.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-05-09 11:09:54 and read 12234 times.

The new American is big enough to justify a fleet that consists of B737/A320/B787/A330/A350/B777 and I would say even B748I/A380

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-09 11:13:24 and read 12168 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 52):
Dublin is flown by teh right airlplane right now, a 757.

PHL-DUB is currently a 762 and CLT-DUB is a 752. CLT-DUB is likely gone with the merger

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-05-09 11:24:14 and read 12021 times.

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 8):
Total rubbish. In fact, being larger makes it more important to send business to both sides. AA by itself even said that no single source could produce enough to meet its demands, a problem that just gets larger once you add US in.

I could not agree more. At the end of the day the manufacturer that offers the best price on the airplane that most closely matches AA's needs will get the go ahead.

US's 767 are getting a little long in the tooth and I would expect them to be gone shortly. Some of them were originally Piedmont aircraft and their limited capacity is a drawback.

Just curious--CO had ordered some 767-200ER's very late in the order cycle--are they still in service?

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-09 11:36:32 and read 11868 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 55):
Just curious--CO had ordered some 767-200ER's very late in the order cycle--are they still in service?

After the merger, they have been quickly retired because they are not as fuel efficient as the other widebodies. A few remain because of the 788 situation.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-05-09 12:20:07 and read 11353 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 54):
CLT-DUB is likely gone with the merger

Why, is it not doing well? Not sure why the merger would affect it in the least.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-09 12:49:57 and read 11154 times.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 57):
Why, is it not doing well? Not sure why the merger would affect it in the least.

Because you go from having just PHL/CLT-DUB to PHL/CLT/ORD/JFK-DUB. JFK will serve the NYC market and some connections and PHL/ORD will serve their own markets as well as all the connections.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2013-05-09 14:07:04 and read 10927 times.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 24):
Maybe replace the 763s on the MIA/ LAX run with a 330

Ohh...one could only hope!

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: HPRamper
Posted 2013-05-09 15:26:08 and read 10789 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 58):
Because you go from having just PHL/CLT-DUB to PHL/CLT/ORD/JFK-DUB. JFK will serve the NYC market and some connections and PHL/ORD will serve their own markets as well as all the connections.

US already routes the vast majority of their own JFK-originating traffic through PHL so that shouldn't affect CLT in the least. All it says is that some current PHL-DUB traffic may now flow through JFK instead. CLT only operates with a 757 which is probably right for funneling the Southeast traffic to DUB.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: planesmart
Posted 2013-05-09 15:57:57 and read 10671 times.

Existing fleet will change as financial obligations on those aircraft permit / expire.

Ordered aircraft can be changed, subject to negotiation between airline, manufacturer and financiers.

Fleet rationalisation would be one of the many selling points to financiers.

Aviation financiers want at least two strong global civil manufacturers.

The decision by this airline to adopt a single airframe manufacturer would have no tangible financial impact on either of the current manufacturers.

The decision to adopt a single manufacturer would be hard to justify.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: rising
Posted 2013-05-09 19:40:27 and read 10448 times.

The "one manufacturer" myth is an antiquated idea, mostly coming from America, stemming from the virtual omnipotence many give to Southwest's business model. Yes, it works for them and others, but running an international carrier, with flights to Rapid City and Rome, is a totally different transportation system with a need for a diverse fleet to maintain profitability.

The "synergies" from having one manufacturer in regard to parts, maintenance, etc. are nickels and dimes hyped to hundred dollar bills to a massive operation a la Delta, Air France/KLM, and IAG. The revenue more than offsets the savings.

Having a robust fleet and orders with both Boeing and Airbus would be something that as an executive at US/AA would let me sleep at night, rather than keep me up. One would imagine the A330s will be deployed in a manner that best fits the needs of the network. The 330 is a great airplane.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2013-05-09 19:57:33 and read 10414 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 51):
Ah, that's what you meant. In that scenario, I still see reasonable demand between Germany and the destinations US/AA serves/will serve via CLT, especially Florida. I think a reduction in capacity is a given, but moving to a single B763 seems too drastic. Yes, the route would lose feed on the FRA end, but there would still be feed on the CLT end.

You're right that the frequent flyers loyal to *A will likely stop flying with US (I know I will), but over here US takes a big portion of the "seldom flyer" market, so I don't think the alliance switch will hurt them that much, at least not in the German market.

US has served CLT-FRA since the early 1990s, even before PHL-FRA, and was one of the first US TATL routes to receive the A333s back in the early 2000s. The flight isn't going anywhere. US operated the flight for more than 10 years without LH feed. I see this route staying a A330 in the winter, and a 777 in the summer.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2013-05-09 20:00:18 and read 10405 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 63):
US has served CLT-FRA since the early 1990s, even before PHL-FRA, and was one of the first US TATL routes to receive the A333s back in the early 2000s. The flight isn't going anywhere. US operated the flight for more than 10 years without LH feed. I see this route staying a A330 in the winter, and a 777 in the summer.

I would go as far as putting a 777 on the rout, but perhaps the A350 when she comes online... 

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-05-09 20:43:27 and read 10291 times.

You'll see the 330s in MIA to replace the the 757s on certain routes
that demand more pax and freight such as BOG & LIM.

I know AA runs daily 763 and 752 to LIM. BOG I believe is all
752s. It could even fly them to certain destinations in the
Caribbean & Central America like they did with the 300s.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-05-09 20:50:27 and read 10294 times.

Quoting Ryefly (Reply 42):
You do realize US currently has two non-stops a day on the CLT-FRA (A332 & A333) route? The loads are very stong on this route. If they downsize this route, it will be one flight a day with a 772 instead of two flights.

I do realize that. I also realize that a very large portion of the traffic US carriers on that route is driven by the online connectivity available beyond FRA onto Star partner LH. Once that connectivity largely goes away (there will always be some interlining, but not nearly as much without codeshares), I suspect traffic in the market will drop substantially. I am not as pessimistic as some others here - I think the commercial ties between Germany in general and the southeastern U.S. in general are likely sufficient to justify a continuation of at least 1 daily CLT-FRA flight, but I think it will be on a substantially smaller airplane. And I think a PMAA 763 might be just the right airplane.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 54):
PHL-DUB is currently a 762 and CLT-DUB is a 752. CLT-DUB is likely gone with the merger

  

Quoting Flighty (Reply 57):
Why, is it not doing well? Not sure why the merger would affect it in the least.

Personally, I don't see the market being one that warrants that much capacity from quite that many U.S. hub gateways. I think a year-round (albeit perhaps not all daily in the winter) schedule of JFK/PHL/ORD-DUB is quite strong. Additionally, seeing as its more leisure-skewing and seasonal, I'm not sure if the yields on CLT-DUB are going to work at the higher post-merger cost levels. I see the same situation developing with the other highly seasonal, leisure-oriented CLT Europe flight - FCO. I could easily see that moving to MIA-MXP.

Quoting rising (Reply 62):
The "one manufacturer" myth is an antiquated idea, mostly coming from America, stemming from the virtual omnipotence many give to Southwest's business model.

I don't think it's antiquated, or a myth, at all. There is enormous efficiency, flexibility, and economies of scale that come from sourcing all of a given fleet or aircraft category from a single manufacturer, if the business model makes sense and the deal(s) is (are) structured correctly. Exhibit A: Southwest. The thing, though, is that these single-source economics tend to produce diminishing returns once a certain level of size is reached. Most of the big U.S. carriers before their mergers were not of that sufficient size, which is why we saw every single one of them pretty much go to one or the other manufacturer for all of their narrow body recapitalization for the last 15-20 years. But post-merger, the combined airlines are so large and have so many planes that they can effectively take advantage of these economies of scale from both manufacturers, and need not limit themselves to one or the other.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: KD5MDK
Posted 2013-05-09 21:30:09 and read 10180 times.

Quoting rising (Reply 62):

The "one manufacturer" myth is an antiquated idea, mostly coming from America, stemming from the virtual omnipotence many give to Southwest's business model.

As opposed to Ryanair, Continental, or JAL? Lots of airlines operated single manufacturer fleets.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: planesmart
Posted 2013-05-10 12:19:26 and read 9529 times.

Other than for the World's financially strongest airlines, with a one model type network, a one manufacturer policy would receive enormous scrutiny from financiers.

In the days when there was extensive commonality between models, and a single account manager looking after each airline (for delivery, parts, training, etc), it made sense.

Now with model teams, extensive sub-contracting, reduced structural commonality, etc, it now suggests compromise, rather than commonsense.

Two major suppliers is limiting enough when it comes to negotiating. Try single supplier negotiating.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-05-10 15:20:47 and read 9275 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 66):
And I think a PMAA 763 might be just the right airplane.

Better fix it up first....it's subpar to DL/UA.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-10 16:39:31 and read 9085 times.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 65):
You'll see the 330s in MIA to replace the the 757s on certain routes
that demand more pax and freight such as BOG & LIM.

Why would US or AA fly an perfectly good LONG haul A330 on a short haul route from Miami to Bogota, what a waste of an A330. Miami to Madrid and Barcelona wold be much better. Miami to Santiago, Chile would be much better too. BOG & should NOT get an A330 or a 777.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2013-05-10 16:43:25 and read 9065 times.

[quote=jfk777,reply=70]Why would US or AA fly an perfectly good LONG haul A330 on a short haul route from Miami to Bogota, what a waste of an A330. Miami to Madrid and Barcelona wold be much better. Miami to Santiago, Chile would be much better too. BOG & should NOT get an A330 or a 777.[/quote}

I'm sure Avianca is doing quite well with theirs (or have they switched over to smaller planes?)

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-05-10 16:45:46 and read 9055 times.

Is there anybody out there that would like to take a stab at an A330 in AA's current (new) livery

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-05-10 19:48:54 and read 8844 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 70):
Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 71):

AV used to fly the 767s into MIA from BOG before switching to the 330s
and they have been flying them ever since. If AV wasn't doing good I'm
sure they wouldve downgraded to a 320.

AA used to fly A300s to BOG before phasing them out and it did good.

Why wouldn't AA use a 330 on the MIA/BOG route?

I can possibly see AA upgrading MIA/BCN to a 777 but that's a different story.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-05-10 22:06:46 and read 8687 times.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 72):

Is there anybody out there that would like to take a stab at an A330 in AA's current (new) livery

My first attempt at this...

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: chepos
Posted 2013-05-11 02:12:27 and read 8410 times.

Why would they use a 330 on medium hauls like BOG or even LIM?
To haul cargo. DL as mentioned above has used their 330's to LIM in the past, I believe even CCS has had them. Not to mention they can fill the cabins out of MIA. I'm not saying they will use this fleet on these shorter South American segments but it is not that crazy of an idea.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-05-11 04:22:16 and read 8250 times.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 40):
Will AA be fitting these same seats to their 772ER?

Bizarrely, no. The 772s and 77Ws are going to have a different J product.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 40):
Will either airline be fitting them to their 767s?

The 767 is too narrow (although I guess they could go 3 abreast like AC do, albeit different seat)

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-05-11 04:36:39 and read 8298 times.

A B777-200 takes 32 LD3s, AB777-300 takes 44.
An A330-200 takes 27 and the A330-300 takes 33.

So both the A330 and B777 do well on freight. The same LD3/LD6/LD11 container fit most wide bodies apart from the B767.
The B767 uses the smaller LD2 and LD8.
So if you have to move freight in the belly use a A330 or a B777.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jfkman
Posted 2013-05-11 05:38:42 and read 8099 times.

Boeing orders won't be cancelled, but Airbus will be much more relevant to AA in the future.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-05-11 10:33:02 and read 7758 times.

AA currently runs a 763 to LIM & SDQ. Both flights are doing well.

Its not crazy to see AA fly a 330 to BOG, LIM or even SDQ
why not capitalize on what routes your doing good on.

Its almost the same as AA flying the 777s between MIA/LAX.
The 777s are long range planes and MIA/LAX is a medium
range flight.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-05-11 12:24:25 and read 7569 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 54):
PHL-DUB is currently a 762 and CLT-DUB is a 752. CLT-DUB is likely gone with the merger

I doubt you will see it disappear as that is the only flight to DUB from the SE US, and I believe that it is ingoing to warrant a 757 daily from CLT.


Quoting flashmeister (Reply 8):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
And considering that the combined airline will be run by US management, I predict that Airbus will be the primary manufacturer for the combined airline and that AA's existing Boeing orders will be cancelled in favor of more Airbus orders.

Total rubbish. In fact, being larger it more important to send business to both sides. AA by itself even said that no single source could produce enough to meet its demands, a problem that just gets larger once you add US in.


I doubt there will be anymore acquisitions of aircraft once all the orders are fulfilled for a while. Has US ordered any new aircraft recently or are they just going to use all of the available orders from the AA for both the Boeing and Airbus aircraft.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 58):
Because you go from having just PHL/CLT-DUB to PHL/CLT/ORD/JFK-DUB. JFK will serve the NYC market and some connections and PHL/ORD will serve their own markets as well as all the connections.

I don't see much reduction in flying to Europe from the Southeast and maybe expansion in the future.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 65):
You'll see the 330s in MIA to replace the the 757s on certain routes
that demand more pax and freight such as BOG & LIM.

I know AA runs daily 763 and 752 to LIM. BOG I believe is all
752s. It could even fly them to certain destinations in the
Caribbean & Central America like they did with the 300s.

Would you think that the US A321s would be useful for the above flights?

Quoting cv880 (Reply 69):

Quoting commavia (Reply 66):
And I think a PMAA 763 might be just the right airplane.

Better fix it up first....it's subpar to DL/UA.

They are fixing them up. They are installing MCE on them but with the 787s coming in the future, I don't think that we will see the whole fleet being converted as some of the 763s are already long in the tooth and it would not pay for them to be upgraded to the present level.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: chepos
Posted 2013-05-11 12:37:50 and read 7532 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 80):
doubt you will see it disappear as that is the only flight to DUB from the SE US, and I believe that it is ingoing to warrant a 757 daily from CLT.

DL operates ATL-DUB on a year round basis, and EI operates into MCO if you want to take that flight into consideration.

I am almost positive the seasonal CLT-DUB will cease to exist.

Regards,

Chepos

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-05-11 12:59:30 and read 7490 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 80):
whole fleet being converted as some of the 763s are already long in the tooth and it would not pay for them to be upgraded to the present level.

The oldest 763 would either go away, or be replaced by 332. 777 could, in theory, be replaced by new A333 deliveries, but we all probably know that US A350 deliveries now have an almost unlimited potential with AA's older 777 retiring in the future. See what Airbus did there? A 10-year strategy is now likely to pay off for them. The A350 has a bright future at AA, likely.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-05-11 13:39:28 and read 7392 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 74):
My first attempt at this...

Not bad........ but as I've said many times, in many different threads........ the engines and the winglets are missing something...................

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-05-11 14:03:24 and read 7329 times.

In my view, the 763 works better for routes up to 9 hours, while the A332 could be a good fit for routes or longer than that or with cargo demand.

All will depend on what AA will do with the 772 replaced by 77W's.

But I do expect AA/US to keep them. They may be used to allow the airline to shift better among Northern and Southern Hemispheres during IATA seasons.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-05-11 14:07:57 and read 7313 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 80):
They are fixing them up. They are installing MCE on them but with the 787s coming in the future, I don't think that we will see the whole fleet being converted as some of the 763s are already long in the tooth and it would not pay for them to be upgraded to the present level.

They may be fixing them up in the front, but according to what I've read, the economy section, where most pax travel, is lcd overhead monitors for IFE, a far cry from the other carriers including US/DL/UA. DL has over 60 763/763er's converted to inseat AVOD and the remaining 15 done by year end. As the bulk of AA's international fleet is still the 763, they'll still be around for awhile.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: American 767
Posted 2013-05-11 14:16:42 and read 7294 times.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 49):
AA's 763's ARE two class. They haven't had F for years.

That's why it wouldn't be a good fit on the JFK-LAX route, even though JFK-SFO does see the 763.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 53):
I would say even B748I/A380

I doubt it will ever happen.
Even United, who has been flying a large fleet of 747s TPAC for now 30 years (In fact United has been flying the 747 for now over 40 years), has not shown an interest in the 748i or the A380. United chose the A350 as 744 replacement.
Even Delta ,who inherited ex-NW 744s and the former NW TPAC routes, has not shown an interest either. I think Delta will rather choose the A350 or the 77W.

I don't think AA will go for anything larger than the 77W.

So in summary the US majors will most likely be flying twins only in the near term future, I mean...in less than 10 years from now.

Ben Soriano

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-05-11 14:19:07 and read 7304 times.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 86):
Delta will rather choose the A350 or the 77W.

I actually expect DL will wait for the 777-9X. DL isn't really in any rush to replace the 744 fleet considering DL has outfitted them with AVOD and flat-bed BusinessElite seats.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-05-11 14:26:07 and read 7253 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 70):

Why would US or AA fly an perfectly good LONG haul A330 on a short haul route from Miami to Bogota
Quoting brilondon (Reply 80):
Would you think that the US A321s would be useful for the above flights?

Good to see others picking up on my comment (reply 22) that the A330s might be a good A300 replacement (something the 738 / 752 / 767 is not, because of both the large number of pax an A330 carries plus the large volume of freight it carries).

An A321 would not be useful on those former AA A300 routes out of MIA.

[Edited 2013-05-11 14:26:41]

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: planesmart
Posted 2013-05-11 14:30:06 and read 7244 times.

US-based airlines would struggle to obtain competitive funding to operate an A380 or new 747 without the respective manufacturer underwriting / guaranteeing. Financiers would rather fund smaller aircraft for legacies - more flexible to operate and easier to find new homes.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-11 16:30:15 and read 7060 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 80):
I don't see much reduction in flying to Europe from the Southeast and maybe expansion in the future.

You have to look at the bigger picture. Yes these two airlines by and large compliment each other with some exceptions but there will ultimately be some overlap and cuts.

As it appears (obviously none of us really know what direct the airline goes) AA/US will have TA gateways in ORD, JFK, PHL, DFW, LAX, MIA, CLT.

That is a ton of capacity with overlap. I'm not saying CLT-Europe will go away but AA/US doesn't need CLT as a European gateway as much as just US did.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2013-05-11 17:50:11 and read 6933 times.

I don't think CLT will loose any Europe flights. CLT is going to be the ATL of DL. Now I'm not saying we're getting 1000+ flights. Clt will operate like ATL in a lesser extent.

My rundown

CLT-LHR- 2 daily 1 AA A333 1 BA-772
CLT-FRA- A330 winter 777 summer
CLT-FCO- seasonal A332
CLT-DUB-752
CLT-MUC- LH A333( I do believe they'll stay there's a lot of German Business in CLT and the surrounding area
CLT-DUB-Seasonal 752
CLT-MAD-year round (idk what aircraft)

I'm confused why people on here just assume DUB and FCO will get axed. You need to remember PHL,MIA won't suffice for the SE, you need to remember that it's all about geographics. I think they will stay.

[Edited 2013-05-11 17:58:43]

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-05-11 18:00:29 and read 6894 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 87):

While true, the 747 ROI is only expected in the short term. (5 years)
The majority of the fleet is still very old, highly likely for a 777 order somewhat soon.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-05-12 07:01:37 and read 6458 times.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 82):
The oldest 763 would either go away, or be replaced by 332. 777 could, in theory, be replaced by new A333 deliveries, but we all probably know that US A350 deliveries now have an almost unlimited potential with AA's older 777 retiring in the future. See what Airbus did there? A 10-year strategy is now likely to pay off for them. The A350 has a bright future at AA, likely.

Great observation. AA's older 772's are getting to the point where selling or parting them and replacing them with A350's would make a lot of sense. Of course, Boeing would dearly love to keep AA as a customer with the 77W.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-05-12 07:17:19 and read 6418 times.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 91):
I'm confused why people on here just assume DUB and FCO will get axed.

Several reasons. These markets are more leisure-skewed, with less business demand, and more seasonal, and thus likely lower-yielding. In addition, they also generate less local demand from CLT than the bigger European heavy hitter business markets like LHR and FRA. All this may present a challenge considering that AA's cost structure post-merger will likely be materially higher than US' pre-merger.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 91):
You need to remember PHL,MIA won't suffice for the SE

PHL will certainly suffice - particularly for lower-yielding, more seasonal markets like FCO and DUB.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 93):
Great observation. AA's older 772's are getting to the point where selling or parting them and replacing them with A350's would make a lot of sense.

The oldest AA 777 has been in service for less than 15 years. Has the value of a 777 dropped that much that a 15-year-old 777 is worth little more than its parts? I don't think so. AA's fleet plan submitted as part of their bankruptcy plans did not anticipate the attrition of any 777s out of the fleet for several more years (2016).

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2013-05-12 10:34:24 and read 6181 times.

My question is when will BA come to CLT

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-13 06:54:05 and read 5733 times.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 79):
Its almost the same as AA flying the 777s between MIA/LAX.
The 777s are long range planes and MIA/LAX is a mediu
range flight.

The 777 used between Miami and LAX would otherwise be on the ground between flights to GRU and EZE from Miami. Using them provides and "international F and J" service on a key route. Many passengers are travelling to or from LAX for international connections in MIA.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 93):
Great observation. AA's older 772's are getting to the point where selling or parting them and replacing them with A350's would make a lot of sense. Of course, Boeing would dearly love to keep AA as a customer with the 77W

Many AA 777 were deilvered between 1997 and 2001, most have another 10 years to go which is why they are getting new J and Y seats. AA & US need every long haul plane they have since US doesn't have enough.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-05-13 17:41:34 and read 5436 times.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 95):
My question is when will BA come to CLT

I was thinking about that yesterday. I'm sure that CLT and PHL will both gain an extra frequency to LHR, making it 2x CLT and 4x LHR for BA/US combined. But, IMHO, it would make more sense for BA to put a 767/787 on RDU, which would allow AA to close their oddball RDU crew base, and consolidate at CLT 1x 330 1x 767 (ex-RDU) - and maybe upgauge from there.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2013-05-13 21:01:54 and read 5213 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 97):
it would make more sense for BA to put a 767/787 on RDU, which would allow AA to close their oddball RDU crew base, and consolidate at CLT 1x 330 1x 767 (ex-RDU) - and maybe upgauge from there.

I have a hard time seeing BA in RDU simply because of the ties AA has with the Triangle community, and the amount of corporate contracts on the flight.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-05-13 21:15:52 and read 5168 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 98):
I have a hard time seeing BA in RDU simply because of the ties AA has with the Triangle community, and the amount of corporate contracts on the flight.

But I thought that they could be shifted one-to-one on a metal neutral basis? Or are corporate contracts metal specific?

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2013-05-14 11:35:55 and read 4631 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 99):
But I thought that they could be shifted one-to-one on a metal neutral basis? Or are corporate contracts metal specific?

I am not sure, but I doubt BA would want to take on that route. While the route does fine in J (revenue guarantee from Triangle businesses), it isn't really a stellar performer in Y, especially during the Winter months. I wonder if we will see the route move to a 75L after the merger.

Now that AA has downsized RDU so much, I wonder whether it would be best if DL attempted to take over the route, as they could actually develop connections for the flight.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-14 12:49:25 and read 4527 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 98):
I have a hard time seeing BA in RDU simply because of the ties AA has with the Triangle community, and the amount of corporate contracts on the flight.

There are also costs associated with opening operations at a new airport. It doesn't make sense for BA to incur these costs when AA can handle the flts just fine.

I'm not sure we'll see BA in CLT. With metal neutrality there isn't a need for them to serve CLT unless US/AA is short aircraft. BA generally has larger Premium cabins so the premium demand needs to exist to warrant BA. Even PHL hasn't been able to generate a ton of premium paxs for BA and has seen the 763 on 1 of the 2 flts for the past few years.

US 333 28/268
BA 763 24/168 (Aren't they on the way out)
BA 772 3 class 48/227
BA 772 4 class 14/48/162
I'm not sure what the BA 788 config will be

That is almost a double the current premium capacity.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2013-05-14 13:28:54 and read 4472 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 101):

Nope I argue against BA will fly to CLT to complement the current flight on CLT-LHR!

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-05-14 19:08:53 and read 4272 times.

Likewise this past winter season, US will upgrade CLT-GIG during IATA winter 2013/2014 to A332.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2013-05-14 19:37:43 and read 4236 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 103):

Indeed it was and the aircraft was rotated to MCO in the morning! Hopefully GRU gets upgraded this winter too!

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2013-05-14 19:38:03 and read 4227 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 101):
BA 763 24/168 (Aren't they on the way out

Doesn't this have Y+ as well.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-05-14 19:51:06 and read 4201 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 105):
Doesn't this have Y+ as well.

Yes, they all have Y+, I just grouped in with Y. I know they consider it 3 class but it is not the traditional F/J/Y 3 class config

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-05-14 20:31:36 and read 4160 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 101):
There are also costs associated with opening operations at a new airport. It doesn't make sense for BA to incur these costs when AA can handle the flts just fine.

True, but I was thinking of keeping the costs associated with having a crew base for 1 flight a day. Now that AA is (I think) abolishing the -I crew bases, I guess the base could be expanded to cover domestic RONS. Between MIA, ORD, DFW, CLT etc the combined carrier must have, what, 5 (?) RON mainline aircraft?

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 100):
Now that AA has downsized RDU so much, I wonder whether it would be best if DL attempted to take over the route, as they could actually develop connections for the flight.

If it's profitable it probably isn't going anywhere. And where do you propose that DL would connect to? Other than the obvious (ATL, MSP etc which all ready have direct flights to LHR) the only places that DL could get you that AA couldn't are CMH, IND, BWI, and BOS, and RDU isn't exactly a convient place to change planes to any of those cities from LHR given the backtracking.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-05-16 15:57:42 and read 3664 times.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 104):
Indeed it was and the aircraft was rotated to MCO in the morning! Hopefully GRU gets upgraded this winter too!

Lets see how it develops. GIG during IATA winter is a two way strong market (leisure from and to GIG) as a beach destination, while GRU is more of a leisure origin.
But GRU just need one A332 (while GIG needs 2) right now.

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2013-05-16 16:15:25 and read 3623 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 108):

It was rotated to MCO November--January

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: laca773
Posted 2013-05-18 15:18:59 and read 3150 times.

Quoting Ryefly (Reply 42):
You do realize US currently has two non-stops a day on the CLT-FRA (A332 & A333) route? The loads are very stong on this route. If they downsize this route, it will be one flight a day with a 772 instead of two flights.

If US-AA continue to carry large corporate contracts in Germany from the CLT area, I see them continuing the service as is. If not, I see them downgauging CLT-FRA to a 76W.
Since US will be going into OW, I suspect will see LHR go to at least twice daily (if they can get the slots) and these will be operated on AA metal. I think they will be flown with A330s unless, the premium cabin demand increases markedly where it makes sense for them to upgauge to a 76W or 77E which have larger J cabins compared to the smaller one's US currently have.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 65):
You'll see the 330s in MIA to replace the the 757s on certain routes that demand more pax and freight such as BOG & LIM.

There have been occasions where MIA-BOG has seen one of the three daily flights operated with a 763. Not all the time, but it has occurred, most likely during the peak season.
I could see AA operating a A330 if they bring a few of them down to MIA for South American operations. They could use a A330 on the MIA-BOG route during the day so it doesn't sit on the tarmac all day prior to leave to go South. We all know the A330s can carry a lot of cargo and this is one route where cargo does very well. Otherwise, I don't think we'd see AV flying the A330 into MIA on a daily basis. AV is good about up & downgauging their flights according to demand.
75W/738s work well for AA in this market for the most part. Having the A330s will give them some flexibility in a market such as BOG in addition to LIM. Another good a/c for Colombian markets is the A319.

Has there been any discussion if US-AA will increase the J cabin on the A330 fleet?

Topic: RE: US Airways Airbus A330s. What Will Happen?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-18 15:55:06 and read 3057 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 110):
There have been occasions where MIA-BOG has seen one of the three daily flights operated with a 763. Not all the time, but it has occurred, most likely during the peak season.
I could see AA operating a A330 if they bring a few of them down to MIA for South American operations. They could use a A330 on the MIA-BOG route during the day so it doesn't sit on the tarmac all day prior to leave to go South. We all know the A330s can carry a lot of cargo and this is one route where cargo does very well. Otherwise, I don't think we'd see AV flying the A330 into MIA on a daily basis. AV is good about up & downgauging their flights according to demand.
75W/738s work well for AA in this market for the most part. Having the A330s will give them some flexibility in a market such as BOG in addition to LIM. Another good a/c for Colombian markets is the A319.

Has there been any discussion if US-AA will increase the J cabin on the A330 fleet?

What is people's fascination with using A330 from Miami to Latin America. AA uses 767, 738 or 757, if you want an A330 to Bogota buy a ticket on Avianca( good luck with that). US Airways A330 fleet already has its mission and fit well into CLT and PHL. A330's are fine planes but not neccesarily good for Miami where the distances to Caribean and Central America are under 3 hours, not the swwet spot for an A330. IF A330 work well in Miami as A300 replacements then AA would have some today.


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