Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5767405/

Topic: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-05-18 16:51:42 and read 6075 times.

http://www.facebook.com/unitedairlines
http://instagram.com/united

Apparently, UA has something big planned for the 25th anniversary of the (former sCO) EWR hub. I'm willing to bet that the day in question is the day the former PEOPLExpress hub became a "true" rolling hub for Lorenzo-era sCO, not the days when sUA had a considerable EWR presence.

UA is being very vague on details, except that it will be a big celebration. You can bet that Jeff Smisek will be at a party to mark it. But whether this event involves new routes to the extent that UA's EWR slots can allow, ticket giveaways across NYC, new partnerships with NYC landmarks, or a mix remains to be seen. (My bet: all three, as DL has said loud and clear that they want to be "New York's Airline" and that nothing will stop them.)

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: AVENSAB727
Posted 2013-05-18 17:12:15 and read 6014 times.

I wonder when UA will hold a IAH anniversary event.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-05-18 18:05:02 and read 5869 times.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 1):
I wonder when UA will hold a IAH anniversary event.

That would have happened last year on the 30th anniversary of the CO/TI merger.

Alas, UA was in their battle with WN over the FIS at HOU at the same time. The "anniversary gift" to IAH from UA as a result was cutbacks.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: ABQopsHP
Posted 2013-05-18 18:56:11 and read 5756 times.

I was at the EWR opening. Actually I had to go to EWR before the Big Bang Feb,1,1987 to assist with that fiasco. Then went back up there 3 days before the new Terminal opened, to help out with final preps. That was one cool terminal, in the late 80s. Havent been back up there in years. Im curious to see how she has held up. As for IAH? I flew TI a few times through Terminal C in summer of 82 then on CO in Jan 83. While employed with CO I got to know terminal C quite well, in the 80s. Last time I was in IAH-C was 2010. Sure is a tired worn down terminal. But it sure brings back memories.

JD CRP

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: FlyPeoria
Posted 2013-05-18 20:48:28 and read 5547 times.

So this actually refers to the existing EWR terminal that opened in 1988, not the actual hub operation?

[Edited 2013-05-18 20:50:21]

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: 747buff
Posted 2013-05-18 22:02:21 and read 5439 times.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 4):


So this actually refers to the existing EWR terminal that opened in 1988, not the actual hub operation?

Exactly. PEOPLExpress began construction in 1985, even signing a 25-year lease agreement. As most of us know, other events intervened before the building was completed. In the meantime CO shared Terminal B with its then-sibling Eastern, and IIRC continued to run DCA/BOS flights from the North Terminal.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: widget1580
Posted 2013-05-19 09:04:06 and read 4482 times.

I'm sure this has something to do with Delta opening T4X this week.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-05-19 09:14:46 and read 4426 times.

Quoting widget1580 (Reply 6):
I'm sure this has something to do with Delta opening T4X this week.

I think you have it backwards, DL's T-4 expansion is in response to UA's EWR hub.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: widget1580
Posted 2013-05-19 09:19:55 and read 4404 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think you have it backwards, DL's T-4 expansion is in response to UA's EWR hub.

False. I do not have it wrong. United is just remaining competitive in the market.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-05-19 09:23:35 and read 4383 times.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 4):
So this actually refers to the existing EWR terminal that opened in 1988, not the actual hub operation?

Texas Air began combining NY Air, which also had a substantial operation at EWR, PeoplExpress and Continental around 1986. That was also around the time Texas Air acquired Eastern, as we know some of Eastern's assets were transferred to CO. For instance before their transfer to CO Eastern was flying EWR-BDA, EWR-STT etc.. which were taken over by CO. Also Eastern's JFK-MEX route was transferred to EWR where CO began flying EWR-MEX. Also Eastern's JFK-BOG and JFK-PTY authorities were also transferred to CO which later launched the routes from EWR in the Early '90s.

Continental once combined with NY Air and PeoplExpress immediately moved out of the North Terminal and jammed into Terminal B for about a year and a half. Their express operation remained at the North Terminal. In 1988 the entire operation was consolidated into the new Terminal C.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: msp747
Posted 2013-05-19 09:24:36 and read 4371 times.

Quoting widget1580 (Reply 6):
I'm sure this has something to do with Delta opening T4X this week.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think you have it backwards, DL's T-4 expansion is in response to UA's EWR hub.

I think he was trying to say UA wants to divert attention from DL's big move to T4, not that DL "owned" NYC before UA. DL had a large JFK operation before, now it's just a lot nicer and much more competitive with UA

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-05-19 09:41:14 and read 4288 times.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 4):
So this actually refers to the existing EWR terminal that opened in 1988, not the actual hub operation?

That's what I understood too since CO/PE merger happened in early 1987.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-05-19 09:46:59 and read 4251 times.

Quoting msp747 (Reply 10):
I think he was trying to say UA wants to divert attention from DL's big move to T4, not that DL "owned" NYC before UA.

Around the time that Terminal C opened, no single airline "owned" any of the three NYC airports. JFK was led by five airlines: TW, AA, UA, PA, and EA. LGA was led by EA, AA, and DL. EWR was led by EA, UA, and CO (via PEOPLExpress and New York Air).

25 years later, JFK is led by DL, AA, and B6, as PA, EA, and TW are gone. LGA is dominated by DL and AA - again, EA is gone, as is the US focus city that started after EA's collapse. And EWR is dominated by UA, but it's the sCO hub (with bits of EA thrown in from the Lorenzo era) that survived. The once-sizable and market-leading sUA EWR focus city was dismantled long ago, picking up pace after the Summer of Hell in 2000 and rapidly accelerating after 9/11.

Quoting widget1580 (Reply 6):
I'm sure this has something to do with Delta opening T4X this week.

Exactly. UA wants to stay number one in NYC at a time when DL is pouring boatloads of cash from their war chest (in the form of flights, facilities, and marketing) into both JFK and LGA to become "New York's Airline". And personally, I think that UA is smart to respond to travelers in NYC that want to give DL's new JFK T4 facilities a try.

[Edited 2013-05-19 09:58:40]

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-05-19 09:48:44 and read 4239 times.

Quoting widget1580 (Reply 8):
United is just remaining competitive in the market.

Which is my point about DL, they're trying to remain competitive by improving their inadequate facilities. DL has been playing catchup for 14 years to keep up with AA and CO who launched their respective terminal redevelopments on the same day in 1999. They missed that opportunity, which we discussed at nauseum here, but have finally made it 14 years later. I posted a quote on these boards back in 2000 that had a direct quote from Leo Mullin that DL's JFK terminal redevelopment was their effort to imitate what CO has done with EWR.

The forthcoming UA celebrations is to celebrate the development of the first true hub in the New York City market (what Pan Am, TWA had were more along the lines of Large focus cities). It's coincidence that DL is finishing their project 25 years since CO/UA began their first expansion, and 14 years since CO began their second expansion.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: BC77008
Posted 2013-05-19 09:57:50 and read 4196 times.

Quoting widget1580 (Reply 8):

False. I do not have it wrong. United is just remaining competitive in the market.

They're doing a fantastic job, considering they have by far the largest hub in the market! Congratulations United on 25 years!

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: Max Q
Posted 2013-05-19 12:27:21 and read 3690 times.

It's not a UA anniversary, it's a Continental one.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2013-05-19 12:30:59 and read 3674 times.

Which day will this be?

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-05-19 13:30:50 and read 3443 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):

It's not a UA anniversary, it's a Continental one.

True. As I have said, they are celebrating the anniversary of the sCO EWR hub, as sUA had a considerable EWR presence for decades before 9/11.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 16):
Which day will this be?

UA isn't saying. But I would expect sometime this week on or before 5/24 to steal DL's JFK T4 thunder.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: idlewildchild
Posted 2013-05-19 13:59:55 and read 3339 times.

I'm a Manhattan based silver with UA and am seriously considering swapping, like so many have already, the miles over to sky team and Delta until, at least, United has their act together.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-05-19 18:12:43 and read 2832 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think you have it backwards, DL's T-4 expansion is in response to UA's EWR hub.

Actually it's in response to their crappy facilities that they inherited from Pan Am.

But anyway... happy 25th Anniversary to the EWR hub!

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-05-19 19:30:11 and read 2733 times.

I was going to go to this but have to finish moving tomorrow. I was looking forward to viewing some historical photos and whatnot from the mid 1980s planning.

Overall, it's just an OK terminal. It's too crowded, security lines are relentless, and it needs a third club.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
It's not a UA anniversary, it's a Continental one.

Bravo, rah-rah, (clap, clap, clap.)

 
Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
DL has been playing catchup for 14 years to keep up with AA and CO who launched their respective terminal redevelopments on the same day in 1999.

AA's got one the nicest terminals on the eastern seaboard. That "Global gateway" expansion or whatever you want to call it was merely an addition that they quickly outgrew.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-05-19 20:44:03 and read 2647 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
AA's got one the nicest terminals on the eastern seaboard. That "Global gateway" expansion or whatever you want to call it was merely an addition that they quickly outgrew.

The scope of CO's $1.6 Billion dollar Global Gateway was far more than just an expansion of Terminal C, it was way more than what AA has done (or half done) and what DL is currently doing at JFK.

As part of the Global Gateway project CO built the following:

built two new widebody hangars
Re-built two narrow-body hangars
built an automated aircraft parts warehouse
built a new engine build up shop
built a brand new cargo facility
New ground equipment repair facility (former cargo building)
1 million square ft expansion of Terminal C
Two new parking garages (one short, one long term)
Ramp control tower
Airside corridor
converting the lower level, former parking garage, into a baggage claim
new concourse with 19 gates capable of handling International arrivals

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
I was going to go to this but have to finish moving tomorrow. I was looking forward to viewing some historical photos and whatnot from the mid 1980s planning.

It's 11:30 am on May 21st, there's a public event and an invitation only event. The public event as Tommy mentions has historic displays etc.. I would absolutely love to be there, but I'm home taking care of my Wife (who just had a C section) and our 1 week old daughter. UA must have some interesting events lined up, they're flying up a 787 and keeping it a day or two at EWR just for the event.

May 21, 1988 is the date CO moved their hub operation from Terminal B to the new Terminal C. CO acquired PeoplExpress and merged with NY Air (fellow Texas Air corp) in 1986, that's when they established the Newark hub. They moved to the completed Terminal C May 21 1988, it was dedicated in August 1988. There's a plaque dedicating the Terminal near the C-1 food court.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-05-19 21:10:51 and read 2609 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):

So, in short, they did what they had to do........just as DL (or any airline) has done to their hubs to try and improve them. Ok......DL is late to the party with improving JFK......so what? Are there not circumstances which delayed any improvements at JFK.......stuff like 9/11, bankruptcy, etc? I'm guessing that CO had alot more room to work with at EWR than DL has had at JFK. There's just not room to improve much at JFK, sizewise, unless you demolish and build on top of existing property at JFK. You know that......you were at all the meetings (or you said you were).


So, hey, hey UA (and CO)......good for you.....you've got 25 years as a hub. What else can I say?

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-05-19 21:29:01 and read 2579 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
.so what? Are there not circumstances which delayed any improvements at JFK.......stuff like 9/11, bankruptcy, etc?


Every Time this discussion comes up people defend DL's poor decisions regarding the JFK project by blaming it on 9/11. Meanwhile the truth is DL was, according to their own schedules, supposed to have already have begun construction the Spring before 9/11. And by September 2001 they had not even submitted anything for the Port Authority's Board to approve, they weren't even doing survey work. What was jamming them up was their focus on the Terminal A project at BOS. It's just an example of their fleeting commitment to JFK since they acquired the assets from Pan Am in 1991, this was finally corrected under Anderson.

If construction was underway, as they had planned, by the time of 9/11 I have no doubt DL would have carried through with the project as they did in BOS and as AA did to a certain extent at JFK. It might have been delayed a bit, perhaps as late as 2005, but it would have brought relief years sooner.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-05-19 21:48:02 and read 2559 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):

I agree with all of that. I can remember at least 3 announcements of new facilities (including this last one) during my time with DL. I can also remember some of the things I mentioned affecting planning and some things I didn't list because I couldn't remember all of them.


NOW, go take care of your wife and your new daughter........that's infinitely more important than any of this, anyway.  




BTW, is this your first?

[Edited 2013-05-19 22:15:48]

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-05-20 08:51:08 and read 2386 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 18):
I'm a Manhattan based silver with UA and am seriously considering swapping, like so many have already, the miles over to sky team and Delta until, at least, United has their act together.

Okay. Good luck trying to use those miles. They don't call them Sky Pesos for nothing.

Anyway, this is pretty cool. But I've never heard of a hub birthday party before. But it sounds like it could be a good time!

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: CODC10
Posted 2013-05-20 08:57:47 and read 2384 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 18):
I'm a Manhattan based silver with UA and am seriously considering swapping, like so many have already, the miles over to sky team and Delta until, at least, United has their act together.

This is not an uncommon sentiment. I was having dinner Friday night with a few friends in investment banking and they were mildly shocked that I continue to fly United these days. AA and DL are their picks for mostly paid F/J travel, primarily because of United's poor reliability and atrocious customer service over the last 12-14 months.

My answer is that I'm just too close to MM to abandon ship now, and I get great value out of the miles, but from a business traveler's perspective, AA and DL are simply doing a better job right now. My brief stint as an EXP and previously DL Plat were pleasant experiences, but I'm just 'in too deep', as they say!

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-05-20 09:36:34 and read 2312 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 25):
Anyway, this is pretty cool. But I've never heard of a hub birthday party before. But it sounds like it could be a good time!

And you probably wouldn't have heard about this one, if it wasn't for DL opening T-4 at JFK.  

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-05-20 14:02:35 and read 2087 times.

UA flew a 787 up to EWR today, flight 80, which will overnight in EWR and no doubt be part of the 25 year celebration tomorrow.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL80

Quoting mayor (Reply 24):

BTW, is this your first?

Yes, she's a peanut.

Topic: RE: UA EWR Hub 25th Anniversary
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-05-20 14:49:09 and read 2005 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
The scope of CO's $1.6 Billion dollar Global Gateway was far more than just an expansion of Terminal C, it was way more than what AA has done (or half done)

Whatever. The AA terminal at JFK is still much nicer than UA EWR terminal C.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
I would absolutely love to be there, but I'm home taking care of my Wife (who just had a C section) and our 1 week old daughter

Congrats!  


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/