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Topic: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 10:16:08 and read 10287 times.

The Wall Street Journal today printed excerpts from a detailed internal Boeing report on other 787 teething issues.

"The report's biggest take-away is that Dreamliners experienced problems most frequently when they were first powered up. These issues had the biggest impact on keeping the 787 from leaving on time. Those events were almost always unrelated to the jet's batteries, and they took "more time on average to clear than those detected during any other phase of flight.

The report says carriers should consider turning on the 787's lithium-ion batteries, computers and electrical system three hours prior to the first flight each day, and adding time between flights to give cockpit crews and mechanics adequate time to resolve any difficulties."

Overall though nothing too alarming or disconcerting, which is good news for Boeing and its 787 customers.

Perhaps someone can publish a link to the article, I cannot figure out a way to get the link to show since it is behind a paywall.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-05-20 10:56:37 and read 10011 times.

Quoting sankaps (Thread starter):
carriers should consider turning on the 787's lithium-ion batteries, computers and electrical system three hours prior to the first flight each day, and adding time between flights to give cockpit crews and mechanics adequate time to resolve any difficulties.

Nothing alarming indeed although a longer turnaround would decrease the aircraft profitability, wouldn't it?

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 11:19:24 and read 9874 times.

Quoting Azure (Reply 1):

Nothing alarming indeed although a longer turnaround would decrease the aircraft profitability, wouldn't it?Regards from NCE

I think it is a teething / learning curve issue, which will get resolved over time.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-05-20 12:59:47 and read 9489 times.

Quoting sankaps (Thread starter):
Perhaps someone can publish a link to the article, I cannot figure out a way to get the link to show since it is behind a paywall.

You need to do a Google News search on the article's title, which is Dreamliner's Other Issues Draw Attention.



Quoting Azure (Reply 1):
Nothing alarming indeed although a longer turnaround would decrease the aircraft profitability, wouldn't it?

Boeing estimates that the issues cost airlines around $3 million and resulted in an overall reliability rating of 97.7% for the period of October-December 2012. This is said to be similar to the 777's numbers during it's first year of service.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 13:06:42 and read 9455 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
You need to do a Google News search on the article's title, which is Dreamliner's Other Issues Draw Attention.

Thanks. Let's see if this works... http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-235750/

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: Navigator
Posted 2013-05-20 23:53:50 and read 8036 times.

Quoting sankaps (Thread starter):
The report says carriers should consider turning on the 787's lithium-ion batteries, computers and electrical system three hours prior to the first flight each day, and adding time between flights to give cockpit crews and mechanics adequate time to resolve any difficulties."

Overall though nothing too alarming or disconcerting, which is good news for Boeing and its 787 customers.

Any adding time between flights is alarming for the economics. And the need to power up such a long time in advance could also be a problem...

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-21 00:32:02 and read 7686 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 5):
Any adding time between flights is alarming for the economics. And the need to power up such a long time in advance could also be a problem...

One saving grace, (to a certain degree), is that these aren't being flown by LCC's demanding 25minute turn arounds.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-21 00:39:10 and read 7612 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
One saving grace, (to a certain degree), is that these aren't being flown by LCC's demanding 25minute turn arounds.

But they will soon be flown by LCCs or LCC-like airlines, such as Jetstar and Thomson...

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: JRadier
Posted 2013-05-21 01:47:24 and read 7091 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 5):
Any adding time between flights is alarming for the economics. And the need to power up such a long time in advance could also be a problem...

But if it is only power up, then short turnarounds are not a problem as the aircraft stays powered on. The way I read it, you only need to power up the aircraft earlier if it is left for a longer period of time. As such the only real cost factor is the GPU, which is what, USD150 extra? Not really a dealbreaker.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: CALTECH
Posted 2013-05-21 05:09:46 and read 5528 times.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 8):
But if it is only power up, then short turnarounds are not a problem as the aircraft stays powered on. The way I read it, you only need to power up the aircraft earlier if it is left for a longer period of time. As such the only real cost factor is the GPU, which is what, USD150 extra? Not really a dealbreaker.

   This member hit it. On initial powerups is where the problem lies. This is not to say that messages do not show up between turns or during flight.

[Edited 2013-05-21 05:15:59]

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-21 05:55:04 and read 5041 times.

This will be addressed and is less than the issues seen with the 777. An airframe known for its smooth EIS.   

Quoting sankaps (Reply 2):
I think it is a teething / learning curve issue, which will get resolved over time.

  

Quoting sankaps (Reply 7):
But they will soon be flown by LCCs or LCC-like airlines, such as Jetstar and Thomson...

   Expect this of all mid-size and smaller airframes.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: bellancacf
Posted 2013-05-21 16:34:56 and read 2161 times.

Just out of curiosity, does it happen now and again that a new type turns out to have unexpected personality traits in service that no one saw coming during design or testing? I sympathize with the 787 -- I don't like a rushed breakfast, either, and a bit of a lie-in beforehand is welcome, too.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: UALWN
Posted 2013-05-21 16:56:53 and read 2096 times.

Wouldn't powering up the aircraft 3 hours before the first flight mean that the crew would have to be there 3 hours before their first flight? That would imply shorter effective duty times and, hence, more personnel cost for the airlines.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-21 17:02:41 and read 2071 times.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 12):

Mechanics power up planes all the time.

Topic: RE: 787 Returns To Service, Focus Now On Other Issues
Username: UALWN
Posted 2013-05-21 17:05:06 and read 2071 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
Mechanics power up planes all the time.

Thanks. You learn something new every day...


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