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Topic: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-19 03:41:11 and read 23776 times.

China is booming, its private Airlines have more or less colourful new liveries. Only the flag carrier stays in the dull ages of communism.. I think that Air China´s livery has the most oldfashioned, obsolete livery out there of any flag carrier worldwide. Why dont they change? Has this design been created by Mao himself or what?

Now if they would use bright shades, but they dont, the blue is a rather dull hue, the grey is a symbol of dullness, and the red logo doenst fit to the rest of the plane, as if taken as spares from another airline. On top the titles look rather cheap and outdated too.

Look at their new 77Ws, they look like as if they have flown 20 years already and are send to the scrapyard soon. Imho Air China´s livery is incredibly poor and an utterly bad representation for the world new superpower.


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Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-05-19 03:53:57 and read 23774 times.

Although it's correct to say that it is not a new livery and descends pretty much directly from the old CAAC days, I actually think this adds to it; there is a certain "retro chic" to it and as you can see from the above picture and also from the A330, it is actually quite classy.

They're not totally without imagination and they do have quite a number of aircraft in special colour schemes.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: RubberJungle
Posted 2013-05-19 04:03:31 and read 23717 times.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
I think that Air China´s livery has the most oldfashioned, obsolete livery out there of any flag carrier worldwide.

Oh, absolutely, that all-white fuselage, those simple black titles, the weird red flying creature logo...what on earth were they thinking?

They really should take a hard look at other Asian economic powers for inspiration.


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Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-19 04:13:38 and read 23631 times.

If you mean the JL livery is inspiration then I hope CA stick to theirs, though I think you are joking right? Chinese liveries are changing now but very slow, Hainan, Xiamen and SF Cargo are the top ones now with modern upto date looks, Chinese also have to start looking at better fonts and logos.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: TC957
Posted 2013-05-19 04:24:33 and read 23558 times.

Good answer, RubberJungle. OK, so what then, NA, do you propose as a new livery for CA ? Love to see a few examples of your ideas.
I for one still like cheatline liveries and I think CA's current one , and MU's has a simple elegance to it that time has stood well.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: RomeoBravo
Posted 2013-05-19 04:44:42 and read 23449 times.

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 2):
They really should take a hard look at other Asian economic powers for inspiration.

I think you're pushing it a bit calling that JL scheme a "livery". It's the slip of a painter's wrist away from a plane sitting in Seattle waiting for a new buyer.

I quite like the Air China one myself, looks smart and professional... But maybe i'm just stuck in a past era.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: cobra27
Posted 2013-05-19 04:53:46 and read 23396 times.

I wouldn't call it dull, I would call it classic. Altought I don't like the colors particullary
Probably you think it is communist because it resembles Aeroflot livery. And if you think China is communist judge yourself


Sometimes introducing new liveries can backfire

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-19 04:54:38 and read 23382 times.

Definitely in need of an updated livery!

EK413

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Aeri28
Posted 2013-05-19 04:59:18 and read 23345 times.

well it does have that certain Mao chic look to it. I'll always remember the old CAAC 747 SPs sitting all alone between flights on the tarmac at SFO in the 80s. Always envisioned an F/A clad in a shapless gray uniform and when asked at dinner time "whats this?", a curt response of "meat".

Perhaps a blue underbelly a la British Airways? I like Air China's shade of blue. Or maybe the tail could be all Red with the Yellow Chinese stars strewn whimsically like on an artists canvas.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: aerorobnz
Posted 2013-05-19 05:04:35 and read 23286 times.

They have plenty of Specials to choose a new standard from...

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-19 05:21:05 and read 23197 times.

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 2):

I guess you are being ironic by showing JAL non-livery. That looks just desperate, guess thats the only livery that didnt involve a brand specialist.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 5):
I quite like the Air China one myself, looks smart and professional

Then perhaps you think that your old caribbean blue 70s suit with bellbottom trousers still looks smart and professional? 

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-19 05:23:42 and read 23187 times.

MU looks unprofessional. even 20 years ago it looked like that, more so now.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):
They have plenty of Specials to choose a new standard from...

This one would look good if tweaked a bit.


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[Edited 2013-05-19 06:24:51]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-19 05:49:21 and read 23034 times.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):

They have plenty of Specials to choose a new standard from...

        

EK413

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-05-19 06:12:38 and read 22911 times.

I like the current livery and think it does not need changing. I think sometimes the obsession to have new liveries all the time often leads to ruining what was a decent livery in the first place.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: zoom1018
Posted 2013-05-19 07:44:04 and read 22561 times.

I like Air China most probably not because of their services on board, but because of their elegant and classic livery especially the Phoneix on the tail.

Livery is not made to personal taste, it has a great link to CULTURE.

[Edited 2013-05-19 07:45:07]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-19 07:59:02 and read 22341 times.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):
They have plenty of Specials to choose a new standard from...

Indeed. I drew this up recently as a study. Taking cues from their special liveries.
It's not perfect as it was just a quick study to take a look at some possibilities. This was one of the least objectionable designs.


Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-05-19 08:55:19 and read 21355 times.

Ugh yes, change it! It looks hideous and doesn't do them any favors if they expect people to see them as a viable alternative to AF, BA, KL...etc.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-05-19 09:17:20 and read 21004 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 15):

YOU STOLE THE DARING GOOSE BUMP UNITED 787 WAVE!!!

just kidding  

Very nice job. IMHO, the primary issue is the typography. The font used for AIR CHINA looks like a default font or the kind of roman characters that are used on old gov documents in translation from Chinese languages. The icon of the bird is awful looking in it's actual drawing, but it does have authenticity. It only needs to be better staged. The Singapore "bird" is very old, designed by Walter Landor himself about 40 years ago, but it's used well which counters the 70's style of the drawing itself. (question: which bird came first? I always felt like Air China tried to copy (a bit) the very successful Singapore symbol. Certainly the idea of a large stylized bird is the same- as is JAL's Crane.

I would love a shot of redesigning Air China, IMHO, I'd keep the spirit of the current authentic nature but make it more elegant to match the great service (which I have only ever heard of)

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: N821NW
Posted 2013-05-19 09:52:09 and read 20479 times.

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 2):

I think that the current JAL livery is absolutely wonderful, but of course that is my   

But I agree CA is in desperate need of a new livery...however there new "Smiling China" livery is stunning!  

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-19 10:04:15 and read 20311 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 15):

I like it. Plus red and gold is very Chinese to me. Would be nice to see the 748 in those colours.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
I think sometimes the obsession to have new liveries all the time often leads to ruining what was a decent livery in the first place.

A classic livery is only fine, if you have got a good one. If the old one is nice, like Avianca´s for example, you are right, don´t change it. But CA should have changed 10 years ago and they would still have been late. CAs paintjob isnt "decent", its just old and dull. Seeing how dynamic China´s economy is I really cannot understand why they havent rebranded.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-05-19 10:04:27 and read 20313 times.

Actually, Air China reminds me of VARIG. Before the 1999 redesign, VARIG had a cool retro, old world livery, I think the LANDOR redesign did a good job of keeping all the basic elements: wordmark and compass and just modernized it. It recalled the original but then looked world class. It too looked great on a 747 and 777.

IMHO: Air China can be updated without throwing the baby out with the bath water. Air China just needs the bath water changed, but keep the baby!

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2013-05-19 10:06:06 and read 20283 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 17):
I always felt like Air China tried to copy (a bit) the very successful Singapore symbol. Certainly the idea of a large stylized bird is the same- as is JAL's Crane.

SIA's logo came many years before Air China's.

As well as being a phoenix, Air China's logo is supposed to represent the English letters VIP. With a bit of imagination, you can probably see it, although it doesn't really stand out for me.

By the way, I really like those designs you provided garpd.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: ER757
Posted 2013-05-19 11:05:34 and read 19484 times.

Quoting na (Reply 19):
Quoting garpd (Reply 15):

I like it. Plus red and gold is very Chinese to me. Would be nice to see the 748 in those colours.

   +1 to that idea! What a beauty that would be....

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: ba319-131
Posted 2013-05-19 11:15:01 and read 19314 times.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
I like the current livery and think it does not need changing

- Agreed, I think it's quiet classy, loving the blue cheatline that runs the length of the fuselage.

Whilst on topic, I also love the MU & CZ schemes too.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: as739x
Posted 2013-05-19 11:43:56 and read 18916 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 15):

Those are fantastic! Nice work

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 23):
Whilst on topic, I also love the MU & CZ schemes too.

I'll speak on MU, it's awful. They restarted SFO recently and it's no uninspirational seeing them land or at the gate.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: TJCAB
Posted 2013-05-19 11:52:43 and read 19152 times.

IMO still better than the previous AA livery!

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-05-19 12:00:06 and read 19212 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 15):
This was one of the least objectionable designs.

Great work. Looks very ready for prime time [maybe reconsider typeface]!   

So exciting to think about China brands as luxury / premium... A long future full of Chinese luxury awaits.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: N821NW
Posted 2013-05-19 13:11:52 and read 18303 times.

Quoting na (Thread starter):

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Fengxiaoxi

WAY of topic but could somebody please tell me how to post a picture like that.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: airfrancejfk
Posted 2013-05-19 13:19:01 and read 18157 times.

The old CA colors still look great on the 744's, not so great on the 777's.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: AnsettB727
Posted 2013-05-19 13:21:58 and read 18133 times.

I'm so glad someone's brought this up. I always look at these guys at MEL and their aircraft just look horrendous. If Chinese carriers want to appeal more to western tastes (and their marketing would suggest that they do), this needs immediate rectification.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-05-19 14:01:01 and read 17595 times.

Since the 747-8i has been mentioned here a few times...does Air China have any on order?

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: N821NW
Posted 2013-05-19 14:03:38 and read 17545 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 30):
Since the 747-8i has been mentioned here a few times...does Air China have any on order?

On order no CA does not have any, but I think they have MoU or something...

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-19 14:28:25 and read 17190 times.

Quoting N821NW (Reply 31):

they have on order and have increased by five more, will be next receive them.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 17):

CA bird came out in 1987.

Quoting garpd (Reply 15):

better fonts and plain red tail, limited to the tail an not coming onto fuselage, with gold logo would look nicer, also the belly paint could be less heavy like dropped a few notches.

I think the photo I posted could be adopted as is but just drop the flowers as they look too much like their Taiwan counterpart along with the nose job.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: N821NW
Posted 2013-05-19 14:38:33 and read 17036 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 32):
they have on order and have increased by five more, will be next receive them.

Whoops my mistake, sorry about that.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: SRQKEF
Posted 2013-05-19 15:34:07 and read 16459 times.

Quoting N821NW (Reply 27):
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/help.main

Under "How to make a link to a photo on Airliners.net"  

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2013-05-19 15:44:14 and read 16250 times.

Quoting na (Reply 19):
Seeing how dynamic China´s economy is I really cannot understand why they havent rebranded.

Change is a different concept in Communist China. Air China is the de facto flag carrier of the state and therefore the Chinese Communist party. There are underlying reasons why "change" isn't as important as Westerners might wish.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-19 15:47:57 and read 16185 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 15):

Nice! I wonder how it would look if the colors around the tail extended down the rear fuselage a bit more, and the body left all white? And if the Air China in the English and Chinese scripts could be slightly (about a third) bigger?

(I know, Eurowhite is not popular, but could work well with this tail!).

Cheers.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2013-05-19 15:56:09 and read 16060 times.

Does anyone know when the current livery was introduced? I like their livery, as someone else mentioned it has that "retro-chic" look that other carriers decided to do away with ( OA, AA, AM, AI )

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-19 16:14:43 and read 15946 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 36):

Nice! I wonder how it would look if the colors around the tail extended down the rear fuselage a bit more, and the body left all white? And if the Air China in the English and Chinese scripts could be slightly (about a third) bigger?

Funny you should describe such a variant, as the above was a progression from this (with a few steps in between):


Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Mcoov
Posted 2013-05-19 16:27:04 and read 15740 times.

Ew. No gold. It looks tacky.

CA's current paint looks fine as it is. Perhaps some additional colors (e.g. blue) could brighten it up a bit, but there's no need to change it.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-19 16:43:07 and read 15586 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 38):

Preferring this, sometimes its best to go eurowhite.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 37):
Does anyone know when the current livery was introduced?

1987 as Air China, prior to that exactly same but with CAAC title and flag on tail dating back to I don't know when.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: strandedinbgm
Posted 2013-05-19 16:52:03 and read 15490 times.

Are their planes full? Are they making money? Why does it matter how they look? Is the appearance of an airline's fleet a deciding in purchasing a ticket?

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-05-19 17:39:21 and read 15188 times.

Quoting strandedinbgm (Reply 41):
Are their planes full? Are they making money? Why does it matter how they look? Is the appearance of an airline's fleet a deciding in purchasing a ticket?

  
It always amazes me how people believe an airline should repaint their fleet at great expense to look like flying pimp mobiles just because they're "bored" with the current scheme. This when will (X) airline paint it's fleet some hideous design should probably go in the bin of weekly threads by boring people asking asinine questions.. next we'll see "when will Alaska merge with Air China?".....

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: zoom1018
Posted 2013-05-19 18:43:42 and read 14567 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 38):

those look very Hainan Airlines...

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-05-19 18:55:25 and read 14426 times.

Personally, I like the livery. I find it classic and timeless. I specially like the blue cheatline and the stoic bird on the tail. I wish more airlines brought back the cheatline. I don´t see why they need to tinker with it. I looks particularly beautiful on the 747s.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: daviation
Posted 2013-05-19 19:31:59 and read 14055 times.

I just saw this plane yesterday at JFK! I went to pick up some family on an Alitalia flight, so I parked in the mobile phone lot until they were finished with customs and immigration. I came prepared with my opera glasses and saw the Air China 777, an A340-600 of another Chinese airline (can't remember), and my very first A380 (Emirates). Lots of JetBlue Airbuses, American 737s and 757s, a few Delta's, and a BA 747.

Of course, the traffic to/from JFK was beyond belief. I live on the west side of the Hudson River; EWR is a far preferable airport for me.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-05-19 20:09:55 and read 13733 times.

Due to some political reasons (PRC flag can't be shown on flights to ROC.), Air China has a large fleet of special livery. Here are some.

1. Narrow bodies, for example, CA has Mudan (Tree peony) series, which is the national flower of China.

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/mudan_zps9835cb3d.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/8b13632762d0f703339226f208fa513d279759ee3d6de5c0_zps18b511cb.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/d0c8a786c9177f3ec1b4d81570cf3bc79e3df8dcd1007619_zps96c557be.jpg

2. Wide bodies, for example, CA has Purple series, and the livery is among the best in China.

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/1e30e924b899a901ee7f18181d950a7b03087bf40ad1d56a_zps43d6dfae.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/a9d3fd1f4134970a0a33530195cad1c8a686c9177f3e7d67_zps963cf35f.jpg

And I think CA can modify the Purple series a little bit and make it the new standard!

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/20104112742574_zps892a28d1.png

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/20104112631104_zpsaf93549f.png

3. And there are also other special theme liveries for example, Olympic Special Livery, but it's gone now...

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: aklrno
Posted 2013-05-19 22:46:57 and read 12278 times.

Quoting strandedinbgm (Reply 41):

Are their planes full? Are they making money? Why does it matter how they look? Is the appearance of an airline's fleet a deciding in purchasing a ticket?

I can think of two reasons:

1. If the look is memorable then you might notice the aircraft when you are at an airport, and remember that the airline in question does in fact serve that market. When I'm thinking about a trip from AKL to asia certain airlines come to mind right away. Maybe because I saw them at the airport.

2. Passengers may not know what plane they are on, but they probably like to think it is a modern one. Retro looks might be great for the staff and enthusiasts but I think it sends the wrong message to the general public. While WN was changing their livery (I think it took about 4 years) I remember people in the terminal commenting on whether they were boarding a new or an old plane based on its color even though some of the newly painted planes were in fact older than the planes in the older livery.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 17):
Very nice job. IMHO, the primary issue is the typography. The font used for AIR CHINA looks like a default font or the kind of roman characters that are used on old gov documents in translation from Chinese languages.

Have you checked a Chinese visa application lately? They are still using fonts that look like they were made by amateurs and typeset by hand. My chinese laser printer does a better job.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: smi0006
Posted 2013-05-19 23:01:58 and read 12144 times.

Quoting AnsettB727 (Reply 29):
I'm so glad someone's brought this up. I always look at these guys at MEL and their aircraft just look horrendous. If Chinese carriers want to appeal more to western tastes (and their marketing would suggest that they do), this needs immediate rectification.

I agree, an its not just that. Not only do these liveries look out of date, they no longer fit with the branding of the Chinese airlines more widely. They are out of place with the wider branding efforts. Stylish new uniforms, rather stylish and modern interiors, lounges are coming along nicely. Time for their aircraft exteriors to catch up!

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-19 23:24:15 and read 11914 times.

Quoting zoom1018 (Reply 43):
those look very Hainan Airlines...

Hence why I moved on

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 01:14:50 and read 11034 times.

Keep Air China the way it is. I find it to be gorgeous and I see no reason to change it. I admire Air China for staying out of the rat-race to the bottom and have the cheapest, generic discount carrier look.
No swirls or white fuselage & painted tails!

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Only the flag carrier stays in the dull ages of communism..

I strongly disagree and not all Communist liveries are dull.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
I think that Air China´s livery has the most oldfashioned, obsolete livery out there of any flag carrier worldwide.

More like the most classy - at least one of the most.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
I actually think this adds to it; there is a certain "retro chic" to it and as you can see from the above picture and also from the A330, it is actually quite classy.

It's a powerful and distinctive livery on all of their jets. My favorite is on their 747.



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Photo © Dmitriy Shapiro
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Rajesh Changela



I love those cheatlines, native Mandarin script and block letters.

Quoting garpd (Reply 15):
I drew this up recently as a study.

My eyes! My eyes!      

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2013-05-20 01:18:10 and read 10933 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 3):
If you mean the JL livery is inspiration then I hope CA stick to theirs, though I think you are joking right?
Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 2):
They really should take a hard look at other Asian economic powers for inspiration.

Just to clarify.......RubberJungle was being sarcastic in reply 2.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 01:28:17 and read 10797 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 38):
Funny you should describe such a variant, as the above was a progression from this (with a few steps in between):

I love this version, though it is true it resembles Hainan too much. Perhaps with different colors it would work...

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 707lvr
Posted 2013-05-20 01:38:39 and read 10699 times.

Executives at the Chinese carriers will start spending the majority of their time on new liveries (and uniforms) as soon as their companies start losing tons of money and go bankrupt every few years and they find themselves flailing about, clueless as to what to do about it. Just like we do.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-20 01:39:12 and read 10690 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 30):
Since the 747-8i has been mentioned here a few times...does Air China have any on order?
Quoting VC10er (Reply 30):
On order no CA does not have any, but I think they have MoU or something...

There ordered two more just earlier this year. All in all they ordered five if I´m not mistaken.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-20 01:43:36 and read 10656 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 50):
It's a powerful and distinctive livery on all of their jets. My favorite is on their 747.

Distinctive? Perhaps, but only for looking like a drawback to the last century.
Powerful? No, it's a cheap knock off of the ancient Aeroflot livery and just looks old.

It is true, a livery does not enhance performance of an airline. A flight on a plain white aircraft can be just as enjoyable or horrific as one on a colourfully painted one.

However, for better or worse, image is a big marketing tool in today's global world.
Do you want your airline to be seen as some throwback to the 1960s? Or a modern global leader in service, quality and professionalism?

Perception is everything.

Air China's current livery does not paint the picture of a modern, global leader in the aviation industry. More of a government owned dinosaur.
When I see their aircraft, despite knowing different, I get the sense them being a "has been" or an "also ran". Not an airline I'd entrust with my hard earned cash and ultimately my life.

In my study, I displayed two images of the same aircraft in two different liveries. One in the current mainline Air China livery, one with current mainline China Airlines livery

I asked 300 people: From these images alone. Which airline would you prefer to fly.
93% chose China Airlines as their preferred carrier.
Top reason with 68% for choosing China Airlines: Looks modern and reliable.
Top reason for not choosing Air China: Looks old fashioned, don't trust them.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-20 01:50:54 and read 10570 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 50):
More like the most classy - at least one of the most.

Define classy, I cannot understand how Air China livery and classy can the sued in one sentence. Classic, ok, but classy.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 50):
It's a powerful and distinctive livery

Powerful? How? Distinctive, yes, a bit, but only because its so outdated and dull that its stands out.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 50):
My favorite is on their 747.

I agree, maybe because the 747´s graceful shape is classic.

Quoting garpd (Reply 55):
I asked 300 people: From these images alone. Which airline would you prefer to fly.
93% chose China Airlines as their preferred carrier.
Top reason with 68% for choosing China Airlines: Looks modern and reliable.
Top reason for not choosing Air China: Looks old fashioned, don't trust them.

No surprise at all. Air China looks like a government carrier from old times. I wouldnt wonder if they have a secret service agent on board who reports political "irregularities" to the party. Thats how it looks to me.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: aviasian
Posted 2013-05-20 01:52:35 and read 10566 times.

The bird logo of Air China is absolutely not a copy of the Singapore Airlines logo ...

It was said to have something to do with its former Premier Deng Xiao Peng and represents the word "VIP".

I must say I quite like the design by ARP Design ... the choice of red and gold is very agreeable with the Chinese idea of auspiciousness and the logo (which due to its association with Deng Xiao Peng) is retained. The flowing lines are very easy on the eye and stylish at the same time.

I guess if a good design comes along, the Air China livery sure could do with an update ... but if the proposal is one that is closer to that of JAT or JAL or some utterly bland Euro-white non-livery, than let's stick with the classic current look.

KC Sim

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 02:14:18 and read 10404 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 55):
Do you want your airline to be seen as some throwback to the 1960s?

Absolutely!   
The quality of airline service was top-notch back then. Larger seat pitch, full meal service, gorgeous flight attendants, passengers that respected the airline crew and vise-verse, other goodies offered in-flight, yes I'd love to be seen as a "throwback" if I ran an airline. Sir Richard Branson is doing that with Virgin and is very successful doing it.

Do you have a stake in this? Do you work for a marketing research firm that stands to make a profit if Air China cheapens(updates) their livery?

Quoting garpd (Reply 55):
Or a modern global leader in service, quality and professionalism?

They're already a global leader and bailing and loaning money to the US and other nations. China is making money and not concerned about their airlines livery.
They have cash on-hand to buy brand new 747-8Is unlike Delta and United which has gone through livery changes & mergers.

Quoting aviasian (Reply 57):
if the proposal is one that is closer to that of JAT or JAL or some utterly bland Euro-white non-livery, than let's stick with the classic current look.

That will most likely be the case. In just about every livery change over the past 15 years have gone for the worst - cheap, bland discount carrier look. The ONLY livery change over the last 15 years that I saw as an improvement was TWA - but sadly they were dying by that time already.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-20 02:20:04 and read 10298 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 58):
Absolutely!
The quality of airline service was top-notch back then. Larger seat pitch, full meal service

Yes and an eye watering ticket price to pay for it.


Quoting Superfly (Reply 58):
They're already a global leader and bailing and loaning money to the US and other nations. China is making money and not concerned about their airlines livery.
They have cash on-hand to buy brand new 747-8Is unlike Delta and United which has gone through livery changes & mergers.

You're completely missing the point.
All that may be so, you and I and most of us here on A.net know the realities.

However, the public perception is quite different. And that is the whole crux of the matter.

Rightly or wrongly, China is seen a source of cheap knock-offs, cheap labour, cheap parts and is seen as a country still stuck in a cold war like communist era with all the negativity that brings with it.
The Air China Livery does nothing to dispel this. THAT is the point.

[Edited 2013-05-20 02:24:19]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 02:29:33 and read 10219 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 59):
However, the public perception is quite different. And that is the whole crux of the matter.

Only to a few hardcore aviation enthusiast does this matter. Most of the buying public outside of China will go by who has the lowest fare and/or most convenient flight schedule.

Quoting garpd (Reply 59):
China is seen a source of cheap knock-offs, cheap labour, cheap parts

So why go to a cheap looking livery too?

Quoting garpd (Reply 59):
the public perception is quite different. And that is the whole crux of the matter.

Not a matter at all. They have over 1.3 BILLION people of their own. Even though a small minority of their population fly internationally, it's more than enough to keep them profitable. Their survival isn't dependent on business and vacationers from Europe, Australia or North America. They're making too much money to be worried about a 'perceived' public perception issue from a few aviation enthusiast.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 02:46:06 and read 10041 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 58):
Larger seat pitch, full meal service, gorgeous flight attendants, passengers that respected the airline crew and vise-verse, other goodies offered in-flight, yes I'd love to be seen as a "throwback" if I ran an airline. Sir Richard Branson is doing that with Virgin and is very successful doing it.

So you believe Virgin has larger seat pitch and superior service than other airlines? You'd be in for a rude surprise if you ever flew them in economy class! Branson is indeed marketing that idea, but the reality is far from the image.

Quoting garpd (Reply 59):
Yes and an eye watering ticket price to pay for it.

Exactly!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 58):
They're already a global leader and bailing and loaning money to the US and other nations. China is making money and not concerned about their airlines livery.

But of course they are concerned about their brand and image. The Olympics showcased that. Shanghai showcases that. They just haven't gotten to Air China's livery yet.

Quoting garpd (Reply 59):
Rightly or wrongly, China is seen a source of cheap knock-offs, cheap labour, cheap parts and is seen as a country still stuck in a cold war like communist era with all the negativity that brings with it.
The Air China Livery does nothing to dispel this. THAT is the point.

In fact the Air China livery perpetuates and emphasizes the communist era linkage. Like others have pointed out, it is a communist-era Aeroflot livery copy, and it looks very much like a communist-era airline!

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 02:53:03 and read 9996 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 61):
So you believe Virgin has larger seat pitch and superior service than other airlines? You'd be in for a rude surprise if you ever flew them in economy class! Branson is indeed marketing that idea, but the reality is far from the image.

I've flown them in coach and first class. Yes they offer superior service than many other airlines. My 'seat pitch' comment was about the era (1960s). Of course Virgin hasn't adopted everything from the 1960s but yes, his airline does offer superior service and harkens back to a better era in aviation.

Best of luck with your market research project.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 03:06:44 and read 9843 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 62):
Of course Virgin hasn't adopted everything from the 1960s but yes, his airline does offer superior service and harkens back to a better era in aviation.

Best of luck with your market research project

The advertising and branding indeed harks back to a better era in aviation. However the on-board experience in coach is miserable, and in business is slightly below par these days. Flight attendants who tend to have lots of attitude. I try to avoid them nowadays as much as possible

Only thing I grant is way ahead of competition is their lounge in LHR T3.

What market research project??

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-20 03:13:54 and read 9815 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 62):
Of course Virgin hasn't adopted everything from the 1960s but yes, his airline does offer superior service and harkens back to a better era in aviation.

If they are that superior, why are they loosing money hand over fist?
I found BA's economy service to be far better to that of Virgin myself. The food was better, entertainment was better, cabin service miles and miles better. Quite frankly, it was superior.

Anyhoo, back on topic:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 60):
Only to a few hardcore aviation enthusiast does this matter. Most of the buying public outside of China will go by who has the lowest fare and/or most convenient flight schedule.

Clearly not. My small survey shows that. I asked ordinary folks on the street, not a forum of hardcore a.nutters.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 60):
Not a matter at all. They have over 1.3 BILLION people of their own

The crushing majority of whom cannot afford to fly (Although the numbers are rising).

Quoting Superfly (Reply 60):

So why go to a cheap looking livery too?

You tell me, that's what they have just now.

[Edited 2013-05-20 03:21:13]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: TheAviator380
Posted 2013-05-20 03:19:21 and read 9752 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 49):

I went on your blog page as a curiosity and I was really impressed with the designs for those liveries. Man Air Canada 787 and Qantas 787 looks so awesome in your livery, it is so brilliant that I would recommend to AC and Qantas to adopt this livery. Well done, very impressive indeed.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-20 03:20:31 and read 9764 times.

Thank you very much  

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 03:28:27 and read 9688 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 64):
If they are that superior, why are they loosing money hand over fist?

I should have clarified Virgin America and they are making money. Then again, it's not like they have tough competition in terms of service.
Most of my friends in England that are not aviation enthusiast prefer Virgin Atlantic over British Airways. I haven't flown on BA in ages so I can't comment on their service of today.

Quoting garpd (Reply 64):
Clearly not. My small survey shows that. I asked ordinary folks on the street, not a forum of hardcore a.nutters.

...and their chances of buying a ticket to fly to Beijing? Shanghai?
Did you qualify in your survey that they could someday be a customer on this route? Identifying your target audience is a basic rule of market research. No point in getting the opinion of product from someone who would never be in that market in the first place.

Quoting garpd (Reply 64):
You tell me, that's what they have just now.

I disagree.
Different strokes for different folks. You may life something that I hate and vise-versa. It's a big beautiful world out there with a vast array of opinions and likes & dislikes.  

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 03:40:24 and read 9569 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 67):

I should have clarified Virgin America and they are making money. Then again, it's not like they have tough competition in terms of service.

Virgin America is making money? Not according to their financial results, including the very latest one -- see http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...975407_apusearnsvirginamerica.html . They have never made money in their six years of existence!

Besides, Virgin America's branding is anything BUT retro -- it is ultra mod and ultra cool.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 67):
Most of my friends in England that are not aviation enthusiast prefer Virgin Atlantic over British Airways. I haven't flown on BA in ages so I can't comment on their service of today.

Very few people I know in London prefer Virgin these days over BA except those who fly Upper Class and want the lounge experience in T3 and bar experience on-board -- a very distinct but small customer segment.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2013-05-20 04:16:43 and read 9419 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 55):
Air China's current livery does not paint the picture of a modern, global leader in the aviation industry. More of a government owned dinosaur.

The "independent" Chinese airlines are all pretty much government beasts....

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 08:40:38 and read 8997 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 66):

I support your efforts to make some money in aviation. Just pick on an airline that actually needs a new livery change such as Delta and United.   
Worth noting, I actually like your Philippines Airlines proposed livery. Just have the logo merge into a straight line all the way to the front instead of ending the logo in the back.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-20 09:33:25 and read 8871 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 70):
I support your efforts to make some money in aviation. Just pick on an airline that actually needs a new livery change such as Delta and United

In your opinion they don't need a new livery.
In most other peoples (including mine) they do need a new livery.
In fact, Air China desperately need a whole makeover, from the ground up. They're a laughable communist dinosaur.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 70):
Just have the logo merge into a straight line all the way to the front instead of ending the logo in the back.

So you like your cheat lines. Problem is, they're old hat.

[Edited 2013-05-20 09:34:37]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Tomassjc
Posted 2013-05-20 09:54:27 and read 8799 times.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 8):
well it does have that certain Mao chic look to it. I'll always remember the old CAAC 747 SPs sitting all alone between flights on the tarmac at SFO in the 80s. Always envisioned an F/A clad in a shapless gray uniform and when asked at dinner time "whats this?", a curt response of "meat".

Yes! For some of us that are old enough to remember CAAC, that's exactly the image that comes to mind. The cold and grey of the old communist China. Service onboard CAAC's first international routes was "basic" to say the least!

Thank god for the special liveries that bring in some excitement. They are a brighter reflection of a country that in the last 25 years has come of age and has become part of the world market. It's definitely time to step up the standard livery to match where the country is today!

Tom in SJ

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Giancavia
Posted 2013-05-20 10:55:09 and read 8628 times.

Better then anything a modern livery designer would come up with. Keep it old school because nu school is painting our sky with bland puke.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: ER757
Posted 2013-05-20 11:48:14 and read 8499 times.

Quoting na (Reply 54):
There ordered two more just earlier this year. All in all they ordered five if I´m not mistaken.

The original order was five so it's a total of seven now. I believe they hold some options as well.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: B2443
Posted 2013-05-20 12:50:27 and read 8376 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 71):
They're a laughable communist dinosaur.

Hmmm...don't understand how a livery like Air China's suggests communist. Old, yes, but communist livery? Even if they adopted a new livery, wouldn't that be also communist as well? By the way, I like your design but you forgot the flag.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 13:02:53 and read 8344 times.

Quoting B2443 (Reply 75):

Hmmm...don't understand how a livery like Air China's suggests communist. Old, yes, but communist livery? Even if they adopted a new livery, wouldn't that be also communist as well?

Because that was the Cold-war era livery for both Aeroflot and CAAC (predecessor to Air China), and therefore represented the two largest communist countries at the height of the communist period. Air China just replaced the China flag on the CAAC tail with this stylized dragon logo. So it is a communist livery in that it represents the pre-détente, pre Deng, pre-Gorbachev area communist airline identity.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: WROORD
Posted 2013-05-20 17:57:19 and read 8009 times.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
China is booming, its private Airlines have more or less colourful new liveries. Only the flag carrier stays in the dull ages of communism..

Dull ages of communism are very prominent in China. It is still a communist state and the communist party is in charge of continuing the existance of Mao revolution - just an f.y.i. On the other hand Air China livery is an old classic look very traditional and being there a few times I do not expect it to change any time soon.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 18:03:21 and read 8005 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 71):
They're a laughable communist dinosaur.

China is Communist in name only. Lot's of new wealth in China and income disparities.

Quoting garpd (Reply 71):
So you like your cheat lines. Problem is, they're old hat.

...and is classic in style. The cheatlines emphasize the beautiful shape of the aircraft. I don't like the large banners, swirls or white fuselage/painted tail look at all.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 76):
Because that was the Cold-war era livery for both Aeroflot and CAAC (predecessor to Air China)

I actually like the old Aeroflot livery.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-05-20 19:21:00 and read 7846 times.

Maybe they could keep their Aircraft unwashed as AF to make them a lot more interesting!

TRB

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-20 20:22:47 and read 7789 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 78):
The cheatlines emphasize the beautiful shape of the aircraft.

truelso cut out ugliness of some types the dumpiness of a310 and DC-10I/MD11, IL86/96.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 78):
I actually like the old Aeroflot livery.

The USSR version was better.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 46):
CA has Purple series, and the livery is among the best in China.

Amazing schemes, in the Tree Peony ones the cheatlines and grey belly gone they look so clean, and this wins hands down as contender for possible standard CA livery, surprised no one here has commented on it.

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/ljrtc/20104112742574_zps892a28d1.png

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-20 22:09:52 and read 7632 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 80):
The USSR version was better.

That's what I meant to say.  
Quoting 777way (Reply 80):
truelso cut out ugliness of some types the dumpiness of a310 and DC-10I/MD11, IL86/96.

True. I when I flew on Aeroflot's IL-96 in 2006, I was hoping to get the classic USSR era livery but it had just been painted in the new livery when it showed up at Don Mueang.

There are so few cheatline carriers left so I see no point in changing the last few remaining. Keep Air China the way it is.
Interesting that Cubana has a modern livery and had it for some time now but the previous one with the cheatline looked so much more lively and appealing.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: seahawk
Posted 2013-05-20 22:57:48 and read 7511 times.

I personally like their classic livery. Not being trendy is a value itself in todays world.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-20 23:58:34 and read 7426 times.

Quoting WROORD (Reply 77):
It is still a communist state and the communist party is in charge of continuing the existance of Mao revolution - just an f.y.i.

Yes, but this is a very different communism from the old days. In the Mao days every citizen in China had to or were "encouraged" to wear the Mao suit. Individualism was discouraged. Very different from today's China. To borrow from the Oldsmobile ad, "This is not your father's China" anymore. It is a new China that is rapidly shedding its dour old identities.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-21 01:27:38 and read 7295 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 83):
Yes, but this is a very different communism from the old days. In the Mao days every citizen in China had to or were "encouraged" to wear the Mao suit. Individualism was discouraged. Very different from today's China. To borrow from the Oldsmobile ad, "This is not your father's China" anymore. It is a new China that is rapidly shedding its dour old identities.

That is true. Many have got rid of their bicycles in favor of Buicks.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 82):
I personally like their classic livery. Not being trendy is a value itself in todays world.

  
Strongly agree!  

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Aeri28
Posted 2013-05-21 01:57:55 and read 7232 times.

this is simply my opinion, but I tend to think an outside livery gives me a glimpse of what the interior may be. Not that that is 100% accurate, but visually, that is what affects ME.

if something looks drab and boring, in MY mind, I tend to think the service, amenties etc are of similar caliber. Like i said, only "I" can make that distinction to what "I" find boring. And I may definitely be quite wrong too, but it is how "I" tend to visual things. I'm a visual kind of person. Air China's livery do not inspire me to fly them. I would go out of my way to avoid them, but then I would not have flown the old Aeroflot as well. (Just my opinion guys and the way i see things).

I remember in the 70s, living near LAX and seeing those shiny silver Aeromexico DC9 birds come in for finals at LAX. That silver paint job always made me think the inside of the plane was hot like an oven. Maybe because it came from a hot climate.. Mexico.. but they looked very warm and potentially uncomforrtable. But I imagined the food to be good though lol. Oddly I did not feel the same towards AA.. When I was a kid and my dad worked at SFO, I used to love seeing those Calder painted Braniff DC8's going down to Lima or Santiago. I just knew I wanted to fly on that jet and imagined an exciting interior, good food and a good time.

It's all impression I guess. Can't please everybody, but the image you present 'can' have an affect on some.

[Edited 2013-05-21 02:16:15]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Cerecl
Posted 2013-05-21 02:02:50 and read 7215 times.

While I personally don't think CA's livery is anything to write home about, some of the posts in this thread are laughable and offensive at the same time.

Quoting garpd (Reply 55):
When I see their aircraft, despite knowing different, I get the sense them being a "has been" or an "also ran". Not an airline I'd entrust with my hard earned cash and ultimately my life.

Given your vitriol I doubt any livery will persuade you to "entrust" CA.

Quoting garpd (Reply 55):
Do you want your airline to be seen as some throwback to the 1960s? Or a modern global leader in service, quality and professionalism?

Leadership in service, quality and professionalism are traits that need a lot more than an attractive livery to establish. I am not sure judging an airline by its livery is a very smart idea.

Quoting garpd (Reply 59):
is seen as a country still stuck in a cold war like communist era with all the negativity that brings with it

"is seen"? By whom? This statement says more about you than China. Have you ever been to China? Ever talked to any of the young generations, or even the not so young generations?

Quoting garpd (Reply 71):
In fact, Air China desperately need a whole makeover, from the ground up. They're a laughable communist dinosaur.

I could remind you that CA is a listed company (surely an alien concept to a cold war communist country?) with healthy profits (Another very communist idea!). I could remind you that they have a young fleet (Dinosaur!) with latest generations of aircrafts in operation or on order (laughable!). But that would be too logical wouldn't it?

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-21 02:03:45 and read 7210 times.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 85):

Excellent post, fully agree!

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-21 02:13:16 and read 7207 times.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):
I am not sure judging an airline by its livery is a very smart idea.

Well I did that with Olympic Airways A340 (ATH-JFK) and I definitely had made the right decision. It was a throw back in a very good way. It was as if I went back to 1972 (even though it was 2006).
Gorgeous all female flight attendants, 2 full-course meals, 9 rounds of Greek wine, snacks in between, real silverware, footrest in coach, had a small PTV as an ode to the modern era but this airline's soul was in a much better era of aviation. Even the passengers were dressed up nice and very polite. It was as if deregulation, EU, 9/11 and LCCs never happened.
Too bad they're no longer with us. I sort of knew it was too good to be true that an airline this great was still in service at the time I bought my ticket - so I bought my ticket on them. One of the best flights I've ever had.   

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-21 02:29:41 and read 7134 times.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):
Leadership in service, quality and professionalism are traits that need a lot more than an attractive livery to establish. I am not sure judging an airline by its livery is a very smart idea.

Well then, you must be part of the tiny minority for whom branding is not important, even if you are unfamiliar with a brand or product. Branding and livery companies such as Landor are just a big scam then, eh?

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):
I could remind you that CA is a listed company (surely an alien concept to a cold war communist country?) with healthy profits (Another very communist idea!). I could remind you that they have a young fleet (Dinosaur!) with latest generations of aircrafts in operation or on order (laughable!). But that would be too logical wouldn't it?

You are missing the point completely. The Cold War era communist livery gives the *impression* that the airline is a cold war dinosaur. The same livery incidentally that was carried by Aeroflot and Vietnam Airlines in that era. Both of whom have completely transformed their brand and livery since. As have Korean and China Airlines, which too had Cold ware-era militaristic liveries earlier.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-21 02:31:56 and read 7137 times.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):

Given your vitriol I doubt any livery will persuade you to "entrust" CA.

What vitriol? I have not displayed any malice toward CA. I have expressed opinion based on their image. If you call having an opinion "vitriol", perhaps you should check up it's definition. If there is any vitriol, it's in your reply.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):
Leadership in service, quality and professionalism are traits that need a lot more than an attractive livery to establish.

I never said it only needed a livery. You should actually read posts before commenting on them.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):
I am not sure judging an airline by its livery is a very smart idea.

Neither do I. But as my survey showed, and what a few people here have admitted to, people do! It's a fact of life. People perceive quality, desire, etc from how an object or organisation is presented.


Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):
"is seen"? By whom? This statement says more about you than China. Have you ever been to China? Ever talked to any of the young generations, or even the not so young generations?

The 300 people I asked in a survey. I have spoken to Chinese people and they are incredibly clever and open minded.
I know the reality. Do not mistake my explanation of results in a survey as my own opinion of the subject.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 86):

I could remind you that CA is a listed company (surely an alien concept to a cold war communist country?) with healthy profits (Another very communist idea!). I could remind you that they have a young fleet (Dinosaur!) with latest generations of aircrafts in operation or on order (laughable!). But that would be too logical wouldn't it?

Again, I was speaking of the perception of Air China based on what one sees. As this entire thread is about the livery and it's pros and cons, I thought that would be obvious.

[Edited 2013-05-21 02:35:33]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-21 02:50:44 and read 7090 times.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 82):
I personally like their classic livery. Not being trendy is a value itself in todays world.

If your "classic" look is great, fine. But CA´s isnt great at all. I admit I like the double cheatline curving downwards at the front on the 747 somehow, but thats a detail, and doesnt help as overall its just old and dusty especially on the 777, and the colour combination just cheap looking. Many people will link this look instictively to the dark old communist era, and that alone should be sufficient to throw it in the bin.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-05-21 03:14:09 and read 7076 times.

Leave Air China ALONE! ! ! !      

Quoting garpd (Reply 90):
The 300 people I asked in a survey.

Not a scientific sample.

Quoting garpd (Reply 90):
I have spoken to Chinese people and they are incredibly clever and open minded.

Maybe they're just being nice & polite.  

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: seahawk
Posted 2013-05-21 04:49:50 and read 6938 times.

Quoting na (Reply 91):
If your "classic" look is great, fine. But CA´s isnt great at all. I admit I like the double cheatline curving downwards at the front on the 747 somehow, but thats a detail, and doesnt help as overall its just old and dusty especially on the 777, and the colour combination just cheap looking. Many people will link this look instictively to the dark old communist era, and that alone should be sufficient to throw it in the bin.

Tradition is a high value in China. And for me Air China´s livery sets them apart from the newer Chinese airlines. Compared to the other Chinese carriers, they have a flag carrier look to them. Very serious and business like. More reliable than fancy. And without a doubt their livery is unique. And while their special scheme A330 look stunning, changing to such a livery takes away much of the brand design. Cheatline aside Air China looks very much like LH imho. I would also see both airlines go for a similar public image.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-21 05:21:23 and read 6858 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 92):

Leave Air China ALONE! ! ! !      

Certainly not.

All people here defending that old look do it because of personal taste or preferences, nothing else but private opinion with no professional background or knowledge. Fine, note taken.

I am a brand specialist all my life, and that is long and successful enough to know what I am talking about: Air China´s look IS old and obsolete and from times China has left behind since the 90s. If there is just one airline CI/livery in the world that must be changed due to such important reasons, its CA!

Quoting seahawk (Reply 94):
Very serious and business like.

No, very ignorant and unaware that businesslike also means to keep up with modernity. Constant change is one of the KEYpoints of business.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-21 05:48:32 and read 6817 times.

na, you just made it onto my respected users list. I might not like your opinion on everything, but I respect it. In this case we are on the same page. Means nothing to you, but I rarely add people.

[Edited 2013-05-21 05:52:08]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-21 08:57:43 and read 6528 times.

Forgot to mention CA were to get a modified look in 2004 but it didn't happen, new titles and tweaked logo were pictured on a CA Cargo banner at some event, looked a very unprofessional inhouse job.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: seahawk
Posted 2013-05-21 11:45:17 and read 6282 times.

Quoting na (Reply 96):
No, very ignorant and unaware that businesslike also means to keep up with modernity. Constant change is one of the KEYpoints of business.

Oh I do not disagree that the livery could be modernized, but they must find a way to do it without braking with their old identity.

This could be evolved into a new livery. : http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7604065

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2013-05-21 12:33:58 and read 6230 times.

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 53):
Executives at the Chinese carriers will start spending the majority of their time on new liveries (and uniforms) as soon as their companies start losing tons of money and go bankrupt every few years and they find themselves flailing about, clueless as to what to do about it. Just like we do.

   This is so true it's not funny. "Gees, Bob, how can we save ourselves? We need huge restructuring." "Easily, Larry: let's rebrand." Happens all the time, and it's sad.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-05-21 12:44:41 and read 6187 times.

Rebranding or not, the CS looks old and boring, if that is going to make the managers spend the money on good MX and great service, I would fly a darn airplane with no paint at all.

On the other hand how many airlines have these wonderful SC and have terrible service questionable maintenance ?

I would go the John Baldesari way on the aircraft Huge big color dots.... who cares!

TRB

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-21 19:09:19 and read 5819 times.

CA could have something like the outgoing Malaysia livery, not too modern yet not outdated.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: garpd
Posted 2013-05-22 04:55:10 and read 5354 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 100):

I think if CA do eventually opt for a new look, they'll want some thing of their own and not wish to copy something.
Nice idea though. Might draw that "just for giggles".

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: Cerecl
Posted 2013-05-22 19:33:24 and read 5068 times.

With the way major airports are constructed, passenger may not even be able to have a full side-on view of the aircraft they travel in. Often it requires one to walk all the way to the next gate. What proportion of non-enthusiasts will actually walk that distance to have that view?

Quoting sankaps (Reply 89):
you must be part of the tiny minority for whom branding is not important

I never said branding is unimportant. In fact I think it is very important. I just think there are far more important contributing factors to an airline's brand image than its livery. Let's imagine a hypothetical conversation between a potential customer and an agent:
"So, I can book you on Air China. Have you ever travelled with them?"
"No, what is the price of the whole trip? How much cheaper are they compared to British Airways?"
"No, will I be able to accrue mileage on my Virgin Atlantic Frequent Flyer program?"
"No, how long does the trip take? I don't like to transit too many times before arriving."
"No, will I be transiting in Beijing? How is the airport, any English signage? Will I have visa issues?"
"No, how is the airline's safety record?"
"No, My client is a Star Alliance Platinum member and he/she will need limousine access at the destination. Will they be able to arrange that?"
"No, Will I have access to a PTV? How wide is their seat? What about the distance between rows? I am fairly tall!"
"No, I'd like to see a photo of a CA plane before making a decision"
I will leave you to judge which of these conversations are more likely to happen than others. If further convincing is required I suggest glancing at an airline passenger review site such Skytrax and see what they complain or rave about.

[Edited 2013-05-22 19:34:13]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-22 20:37:11 and read 5016 times.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 102):
"No, I'd like to see a photo of a CA plane before making a decision"

That's a riot, LOL!

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 102):
Skytrax

heavily edited, manipulated.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-23 00:03:55 and read 4925 times.

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 102):
I never said branding is unimportant. In fact I think it is very important. I just think there are far more important contributing factors to an airline's brand image than its livery.

It is not an either - or. What you have listed is a set of product and service attributes, which are of course important. I dont think anyone is suggesting that the livery is the only important attribute for a brand or an airline. But it is an important attribute of the brand

Quoting 777way (Reply 103):

Quoting Cerecl (Reply 102): Skytrax
heavily edited, manipulated.

Agree, Skytrax cannot be taken too seriously for various reasons. Even so, branding and livery is what encourages trial, after which the product has to deliver. Skytrax measures delivery. If the delivery is poor, then the brand / livery gets associated with the poor delivery.

Think of branding and livery as the colorful flowers that attract insects for pollination. If after the insects do their bit the flower fails to fertilize, that is a different issue, but does not reduce the role of the colors attracting insects.

In the specific case of Air China, the last time I flew them was around 2005-6. Beijing - Singapore red-eye in Business Class on a 767. Very poor experience, ancient seats that reclined no more than domestic US first class seats, poor / surly service, crew that disappeared after serving the meal. In my mind the current CA brand and livery are synonymous with that experience. So if CA have improved, a new branding and livery would signal to the world that they are not the same old CA. I do agree that livery change must come AFTER the product is improved, or ALONG with product and service improvements to signal things are different.

[Edited 2013-05-23 00:25:21]

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-23 01:11:15 and read 4853 times.

CX livery would've been another superb one for Air China, muted yet modern.

Topic: RE: Air China´s Extremely Outdated Livery
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-23 04:50:21 and read 4749 times.

Could this be a new color scheme in the works 

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bastian Ding



EK413


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