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Topic: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-05-26 10:24:11 and read 11059 times.

There were reports several months ago following VV's collapse that PS purchased the 5 three-class configured 77L that we all thought AI was never going to be able to sell (registrations available?). Ever since VV's collapse, Ukraine is devoid of inter-continental routes. PS suggested they intended to refit the a/c into 2 class only. Any idea on where are they now, when will they join the fleet and when and which long-range routes will be started by Ukraine International Airlines? Thanks for any input.

Previous topic: Ukraine Intl Getting 777-200s (by hotplane Jan 11 2013 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2013-05-26 10:29:05]

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: rutankrd
Posted 2013-05-26 10:30:17 and read 11016 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Thread starter):

There were reports several months ago following VV's collapse that PS purchased the 5 three-class configured 77L that we all thought AI was never going to be able to sell (registrations available?). Ever since VV's collapse, Ukraine is devoid of inter-continental routes. PS suggested they intended to refit the a/c into 2 class only.
Any idea on where are they now, when will they join the fleet and when and which long-range routes will be started by Ukraine International Airlines? Thanks for any input.

All remain with Air India and in daily service with the exception of VT-ALH currently stored broken.

Either AI have retained them to cover for the 788 groundings or as more likely the deal has collapsed

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2013-05-26 11:36:34 and read 10743 times.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 1):
VT-ALH currently stored broken

Why? Broken... how?

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: whiplash
Posted 2013-05-26 12:07:01 and read 10593 times.

Probably cannibalized..   

The last 77L to be taken up by Air India.. Probably they are trying to keep the airframe hours on it to their minumum for a greater resale value, they really don't need another 77L in service - take your pick..

[Edited 2013-05-26 12:10:02]

In fact, i think i can see it parked in front of the Air India hanger at the Mumbai Airport - on google maps.. I think they have taken out engine -1..


[Edited 2013-05-26 12:13:19]

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: rutankrd
Posted 2013-05-26 12:16:58 and read 10528 times.

Not flown for a year and stored at Mumbai with cracked undercarriage spar and as whiplash correctly said used as a doner frame.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-05-26 12:29:36 and read 10457 times.



Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 2):

Wait, the aircraft is not even 4 years old, how could it be cannibalized?

Anyway, what about the rest, they're still flying with Air India? No official info regarding the deal?

[Edited 2013-05-26 12:38:54]

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-05-26 12:52:09 and read 10310 times.

How many aircraft AI has sold and "leased back"?  Wow!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India#Fleet

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: whiplash
Posted 2013-05-26 13:05:24 and read 10246 times.

All the other 777's are flying with Air India.. And there is no info on any deals signed by Air India with anyone for the future sale or lease of these 77L's..
They'll probably use them till they get all the 787's and then will find a more permanent solution to them..

And as soon as all this is achieved, I believe they'll cash out with the 3 77W's that have not been built by Boeing yet but are on order..

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-26 13:20:56 and read 10160 times.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
Not flown for a year and stored at Mumbai with cracked undercarriage spar and as whiplash correctly said used as a doner frame.

It is astounding how carriers in South Asia disrespect and abuse their stored aircraft, regardless of whether owned or leased. Just a reflection of poor management and shortsightedness.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-26 14:46:38 and read 9834 times.

I thought AI was going to put these into a 2-class configuration for mid-east routes. Was that delayed due to the 787 or is there any real plan on what AI intends to do with the 77Ls?

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
Not flown for a year and stored at Mumbai with cracked undercarriage spar

Wait, if I have the right spar in mind, that isn't that expensive a repair. Spars can be replaced on jacks. The keel on the other hand...

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 5):
Wait, the aircraft is not even 4 years old, how could it be cannibalized?

Any aircraft can be cannibalized. Did we learn nothing from IT? While a shame, in the end all aircraft are just parts and if one needed a pricey repair, it becomes the donor.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: rutankrd
Posted 2013-05-26 14:54:01 and read 9805 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
Wait, if I have the right spar in mind, that isn't that expensive a repair. Spars can be replaced on jacks. The keel on the other hand...

We are talking AI here must be the worst managed carrier outside of Sub Saharan Africa !

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-05-26 14:56:47 and read 9789 times.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
We are talking AI here must be the worst managed carrier outside of Sub Saharan Africa !

Yes, especially now since Kingfisher is dead!     

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-26 15:32:26 and read 9663 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 11):
Yes, especially now since Kingfisher is dead!

                       


If that hadn't been so funny, I would make a comment about a 'below the belt' hit...  

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: Max Q
Posted 2013-05-26 21:43:58 and read 8503 times.

Question is, how was the spar cracked ?

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-05-26 21:49:14 and read 8437 times.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
We are talking AI here must be the worst managed carrier outside of Sub Saharan Africa !

Nah. Think AR. They take THAT award.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-26 21:49:29 and read 8436 times.

AI also planning to sell off entire 77L fleet with Boeing's help according to other news sources, that means the Ukraine deal is off.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: whiplash
Posted 2013-05-26 23:57:26 and read 7715 times.

Hasn't Air India been trying to sell them for ages.. I'll believe it the day they actually get rid of them..

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: DIJKKIJK
Posted 2013-05-27 01:13:30 and read 7236 times.

Air India is rather hamstrung by the fact that the 77L is not a very popular airliner, and they are going to have problems finding a buyer for them.

The only option they have is to sell them cheap to the highest bidder.

Can the 77L be converted to a freighter? Surely that would make the more marketable.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: BreninTW
Posted 2013-05-27 01:19:55 and read 7193 times.

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 17):
Can the 77L be converted to a freighter? Surely that would make the more marketable.

From what I understand, the best answer to that is "not in an economically viable way" -- apparently the floor loading of the passenger aircraft is lower than for the freighter, so for a conversion, the entire floor support structure needs to be changed.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-27 03:05:14 and read 6574 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 5):
Wait, the aircraft is not even 4 years old, how could it be cannibalized?

Look for cannibalized AI A320 pictures on Google and you will have your answer.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-27 03:20:46 and read 6459 times.

I have seen that stored 77L at BOM last month. Very dusty and indeed looking as if out of work for some considerable time. Parked aside 3 or 4 787s at that time, close to some A310s being scrapped. I hope thats not indicative of its fate, just 4 years old, what a shame.

Quoting whiplash (Reply 16):

Hasn't Air India been trying to sell them for ages.. I'll believe it the day they actually get rid of them..

Since 2 or 3 years, yes. There were several articles in the press about it from time to time.

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 17):

Air India is rather hamstrung by the fact that the 77L is not a very popular airliner, and they are going to have problems finding a buyer for them.

Who would need a 77L who hasnt got them already? And then from India of all places? AI will finally have to give in to accept a huge loss if they finally find a taker. Or they will keep operating them on odd routes not making much money, if any.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-05-27 04:23:10 and read 6042 times.

Quoting na (Reply 20):
Since 2 or 3 years, yes. There were several articles in the press about it from time to time.

the one I quoted is the latest.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-05-27 07:09:33 and read 4901 times.

I was on a NW A332 that hit a flock of vultures on rotation out of BOM at about 0130L--several went through the #2 engine. It sounded like when we were kids and we would place a baseball card and a clothespin on our bike tire to make that braaaaak sound. So, needless to say we did a fast 360 and came back to land. Our A330's have no fuel dumping mechanism and as we were enroute to AMS we had a heavy load of fuel and pax. We hit the ground hard with MAJOR wing flex. No harm--just some VERY hot brakes. The plugs on the tires never even blew, oddly enough.

The f/o went down with his cell and took pictures of the front fan to show to us--the blades were all twisted and it was obvious we were going nowhere. He said the tailpipe smelled like burned chicken. Air India does our major maintenance there and they came over, looked at the damage and I swear because I was standing in the cockpit doorway and heard it myself and the lead mechanic said "Well, we could cut the lower six inches off the blades and you should be good to go." All of our mouths just fell open in disbelief. The look on the captain's f/o's and my face must have ben incredulous!

We cancelled. Another night in BOM. It also turned out that at least one bird had hit the fuselage right about where the f/a's right knee would sit and had left a large dent.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-05-27 07:57:54 and read 4469 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 22):

Wow, thanks for sharing that with us. Could you explain us more in details what would be the consequences of what he proposed? What repairs are actually gonna be done on the aircraft?

PS: What was the flight number?

Thanks.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-05-27 08:16:07 and read 4312 times.

A jet turbine has to be perfectly balanced or it will wobble and come apart. Essentially, it is like putting your finger against a spinning top. If they had cut those 6-7 fan blades off, the whole engine would have been out of balance as it essentially a gyroscope.

The GOOD news is that the engines on the A330 do not have to be changed as one unit like on so many other planes. All they had to do was to remove that first stage fan and replace it after boroscoping the engine looking for more damage. There was none--there was also not a fan stage in India and one had to be flown in from AMS. After they repaired the engine the plane was ferried back to AMS for repair to the skin damage. Thankfully, our partner KLM has EXCELLENT maintenance facilities.

Topic: RE: Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-05-27 19:30:37 and read 3068 times.

Are the collisions with vultures more frequent in India than elsewhere, according to your experience? I remember witnessing an unbelievable number of crows in India the last years, i'm talking of thousands on a single square kilometer.


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