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Topic: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-05-30 09:07:58 and read 16963 times.

Per GDS display, Iberia will suspend service to Boston effective 24 October 2013. No idea if this is a seasonal suspension or not. It could very well be seasonal, or maybe an AA 757 will take Iberia's place starting around this time.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-05-30 10:36:23 and read 16542 times.

Could part of this be due to IAG's problems with its IB business unit alongside the obvious drop in traffic come October?


Dream scenario - AA does both MAD-BOS year-round and BCN-BOS at least seasonally on 757. They are still doing the seasonal CDG-BOS which I figured would have been dropped by now.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-30 10:57:37 and read 16406 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 1):
Dream scenario - AA does both MAD-BOS year-round and BCN-BOS at least seasonally on 757. They are still doing the seasonal CDG-BOS which I figured would have been dropped by now.

If they can't make MAD-BOS work I doubt there's any chance to make BCN-BOS work.
As I understand it the market between MAD and BOS is very small and low yield, and IB was filling the seats with connections to Italy and Portugal at rock bottom yields. Without connections at BCN the flight would never succeed.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2013-05-30 11:18:46 and read 16294 times.

I never understood the logic behind this route to begin with. IB couldn't even maintain IAD nor LAX year-round.

Sadly, this is really the state of EU flag carriers. Their short-haul ops are unprofitable, their long-haul ops can no longer subsidize the losses of those short-haul flights, and slowly and surely, the network is culled and things start to unravel.

The aviation landscape may be completely different in a few years with airlines like EasyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian, etc. filling in the void on the long-haul sector.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-05-30 11:21:26 and read 16292 times.

Seems that IB has a strange relationship with BOS. They start it then suspend it. A few years later they will restart it only to suspend it again. I believe the first DC-10 incident in the history of that aircraft was an IB one at BOS. I don´t understand. If they can´t make it work with their new A330s I´m not sure what else they need.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: sw733
Posted 2013-05-30 11:26:35 and read 16232 times.

BOS-MAD would be an awesome route for a 752, I imagine. I hope AA starts it.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-05-30 11:33:18 and read 16176 times.

Gone are the days of national airlines. Gone are the days of small airlines that represent each country.

European airlines now need to be profitable...and many of them are merged together albeit with separate names for branding sake.

Spain has an astonishingly high unemployment rate (somewhere near 25%) and tough decisions need to be made at IAG.

I will go out on a limb and say that most of their routes to the US are unprofitable for a good chunk of the year

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-05-30 12:14:08 and read 15981 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 2):
Without connections at BCN the flight would never succeed.

Now that IAG owns Vueling its possible.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
I will go out on a limb and say that most of their routes to the US are unprofitable for a good chunk of the year

That seems likely to me as well. Maybe AA winds up actually serving at least MAD seasonally from BOS which would be a win-win for them and IAG due to the JV.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: zrs70
Posted 2013-05-30 12:27:00 and read 15883 times.

With AA put of all other BOS -Europe routes, I doubt they would start MAD.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2013-05-30 12:39:38 and read 15775 times.

It's funny, I've always wondered why AZ couldn't make BOS-FCO work year-round but IB could make BOS-MAD work despite having lower yields as well as O&D, unless I am mistaken.

Hopefully AA will start the route with a 757, but if they do I hope they refurbish the cabins and upgrade the IFE. I flew on one DFW-BOS two years ago, and while I had a good flight, the plane looked worn out and seven or eight hours is a long flight without good IFE.

Anyway, I'd be shocked to see IB drop it completely. BOS-Europe grows tremendously during the summer months, so there should be at least seasonal service here.

[Edited 2013-05-30 12:41:06]

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-05-30 12:41:42 and read 15747 times.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
Hopefully AA will start the route with a 757, but if they do I hope they refurbish the cabins and upgrade the IFE. I flew on one DFW-BOS two years ago, and while I had a good flight, the plane looked worn out and seven or eight hours is a long flight without good IFE.

757 internationals have brand-new interiors and lie-flat/PTV in J.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: cedarjet
Posted 2013-05-30 12:43:56 and read 15730 times.

Iberia have flown to Boston since the 60s. I don't think of it as a hotbed of Spanish culture or immigrants but obviously there has been something to sustain service for so long. And yes, Iberia have something of a chequered history there.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
I believe the first DC-10 incident in the history of that aircraft was an IB one at BOS.

It wasn't an incident, they crashed a DC-10 there, the first of it's kind to be written off, although luckily there were no fatalities. IB 933* on December 17, 1973, at 15h42 local. Lucky escape for 167 passengers.

* nowadays it's IB 6165, in case you wondered

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: zrs70
Posted 2013-05-30 12:53:25 and read 15643 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 11):
Iberia have flown to Boston since the 60s. I don't think of it as a hotbed of Spanish culture or immigrants but obviously there has been something to sustain service for so long. And yes, Iberia have something of a chequered history there.

Iberia had a hiatus in Boston for much of the 80's, 90's, and 2000's. they only restarted BOS service two or three years ago after at least 15 years.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-05-30 13:12:56 and read 15385 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 11):
Iberia have flown to Boston since the 60s. I don't think of it as a hotbed of Spanish culture or immigrants but obviously there has been something to sustain service for so long. And yes, Iberia have something of a chequered history there.

BOS-MAD = 97 PDEW
BOS-BCN = 63 PDEW

Granted its not LHR-BOS but they are both in the top 25 international destinations from BOS.

BOS-ZRH is 84 PDEW and you don't see LX having many issues on BOS-ZRH

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: mfc
Posted 2013-05-30 13:16:31 and read 15297 times.

I hope it is just a seasonal cut. Iberia flies to Boston daily in Summer and even with 346s, so I guess it hasn't to be that bad.

Anyway I thought it would be easier for Iberia to maintain the route given the AA-BA-IB JV, and nowadays with the 330s with an up to date Economy Class and improved service I thought they could get higher yields.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: mfc
Posted 2013-05-30 13:20:39 and read 15222 times.

I have just checked Iberia's website and they sell tickets for April next year, so for the moment it is just a Winter cut.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-05-30 13:22:00 and read 15227 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 13):

BOS-ZRH is 84 PDEW and you don't see LX having many issues on BOS-ZRH

ZRH is a much better-located connecting hub than MAD. There aren't many destinations in Europe (other than Spain) where MAD is a convenient hub, and it's not a big gateway to Africa. And LX has a much stronger reputation as a high-quality premium class carrier than IB.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
Seems that IB has a strange relationship with BOS. They start it then suspend it. A few years later they will restart it only to suspend it again. I believe the first DC-10 incident in the history of that aircraft was an IB one at BOS. I don´t understand. If they can´t make it work with their new A330s I´m not sure what else they need.

The unemployment rate in Spain wasn't 27% when those changes were made.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-30 13:22:48 and read 15166 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 13):
BOS-ZRH is 84 PDEW and you don't see LX having many issues on BOS-ZRH

Because Swiss runs a strong hubbing operation at ZRH. Much of LX longhaul network would never be sustained if it was simply reliant on O&D.

IB on the other hand has a much weaker European hub operation. Unless you are headed to the Iberian peninsula the IB network is not that great coming from the US both in its destinations and frequency options.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-05-30 13:29:14 and read 15064 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 13):
BOS-ZRH is 84 PDEW and you don't see LX having many issues on BOS-ZRH

BOS-ZRH connects two financial centers so there's a fair bit of high-yielding traffic up front. There's practically none on BOS-MAD apart from perhaps some Santander employees.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
I've always wondered why AZ couldn't make BOS-FCO work year-round

BOS-FCO was year-round for a very long time with BOS-MXP being seasonal. However, the A332 is a fair bit larger than the 763's AZ used to fly to BOS, and that makes for more challenging economics in the weak season.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: r2rho
Posted 2013-05-30 13:39:23 and read 14912 times.

IMO this is just a seasonal suspension over the winter, I wouldn't draw conclusions too quickly.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 7):
Without connections at BCN the flight would never succeed.

Now that IAG owns Vueling its possible.

Connections in BCN would be already possible today, at least theoretically, as I don't know if AA codeshare with VY yet. And they are possible with or without IAG, as VY has been an IB subsidiary for some years now.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 2):
As I understand it the market between MAD and BOS is very small and low yield

I have no specific knowledge, but I'm surprised that they have cut several LatAm services - their core market - but have maintained BOS so far. So yields must not be that bad if they have cut other core destinations first.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
If they can´t make it work with their new A330s I´m not sure what else they need.

The A333 is a huge improvement over the A343 for this route, but in the winter an A332 or even 752 would be better suited.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-05-30 13:44:00 and read 14840 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 10):
757 internationals have brand-new interiors and lie-flat/PTV in J.

All of them? I flew BOS-LHR six months ago and they had the old interiors (at least in Economy). Horrible horrible flight...!!! (not to mention the "Boston-based international crew" but that would be another topic.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 11):
Iberia have flown to Boston since the 60s. I don't think of it as a hotbed of Spanish culture or immigrants but obviously there has been something to sustain service for so long. And yes, Iberia have something of a chequered history there.

I assume in summer it is a mix of tourism from both sides (surprisingly you will cross a lot of Spanish tourists in BOS - a lot of Italians too - and Boston area has a lot of outbound tourism for the American average), and then year-round higher education and business (i.e. Sovereign Bank which is based in Boston is now Santander owned).

I think the problem with his flight is, like others have said, connectivity. You can surely get some connections in BOS (to LAX or ORD, not the most obvious place, but it can happen) and some "cheap" connections in MAD (I mean "cheap", because if you are even flying to BCN, you don't have any advantage to fly IB through MAD when you can fly BA, AF, LH...). MAD is not a very attractive hub for the US, unless it is some random places in Northern Africa, Italy, Portugal (backtracking already) or Israel. Overall connectivity is quite reduced in both MAD and BOS.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: Markam
Posted 2013-05-30 14:02:28 and read 14518 times.

I posted yesterday night about this, asking weather Iberia had suspended the route after receiving an email from Iberia cancelling both my wife's and my flights for later this year. It was today confirmed by IB customer service, the route is suspended at least during the Fall.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 12):
Iberia had a hiatus in Boston for much of the 80's, 90's, and 2000's. they only restarted BOS service two or three years ago after at least 15 years.

They started MAD-BOS again in 2007. I have been on the flight many times and loads were awful most of the year and days of the week, but from a passenger point of view it was great because if traveling on Y the plane was so empty that 2 times out of 3 one could get a row of four seats to sleep horizontally... so, a shame because it was a very convenient flight, but probably a smart decision from the airline's perspective.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-05-30 14:36:57 and read 14069 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 20):
All of them? I flew BOS-LHR six months ago and they had the old interiors (at least in Economy). Horrible horrible flight...!!! (not to mention the "Boston-based international crew" but that would be another topic.

Yes, all of them.

You might have hated the interior, but it's not old. The 75L subfleet was stripped to the bone and got new interiors in both cabins around 08-09 when it was launched. AA recently converted two more 757s to international configuration, which I did find odd given how underused it is.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: luckyone
Posted 2013-05-30 14:47:13 and read 13924 times.

Quoting mfc (Reply 14):
I hope it is just a seasonal cut. Iberia flies to Boston daily in Summer and even with 346s, so I guess it hasn't to be that bad.

They also flew A346's to Havana. That route has been cancelled as well.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: mfc
Posted 2013-05-30 15:37:22 and read 13410 times.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 23):


Well, I think it isn't fair to compare Boston and Havana, they're very different markets, and Havana was cancelled for very different reasons. In any case, right now BOS has been suspended during Winter season, not canceled.

It just seem that if they are sending 346s to Boston some days in Summer (also this year) is because loads are as good as to other US cities such as MIA, JFK or ORD.

[Edited 2013-05-30 16:16:12]

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: VV701
Posted 2013-05-31 05:52:26 and read 9853 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 3):
Sadly, this is really the state of EU flag carriers.

A generalisation like that is as bad as saying all US legacy airlines have sought Chapter 11 protection except that, while airlines like BA, KL and LH have remained operationally profitable, all US legacy airlines have actually been in Chapter 11 protection relatively recently.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
European airlines now need to be profitable...and many of them are merged together albeit with separate names for branding sake.

They have retained their own brands because of their financial and operational structure which in all cases allows them to continue to operate on those international routes still covered by bilateral air services agreements between their 'home' country and other non-EU nations. If this had not been done I believe I am correct in saying, for example, that none of the European merged airlines could operate to the Russian Federation. See the EU document on this specific Russian Federation / EU situation here:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-88_en.htm


Quoting zrs70 (Reply 12):
they only restarted BOS service two or three years ago after at least 15 years

Certainly there were no direct BOS-MAD flights back in Summer 1995. The April 95 ABC World Airways Guide lists a CO flight on this route (CO4052) with the qualification "CO4052 plane change at intermediate stop". The departure time from BOS (18:00) is the same as CO365 (BOS-EWR). That flight was scheduled at EWR at 19:24. I guess this was OK for a transfer to CO62 that was due to depart from EWR for MAD at 20:15.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-31 06:14:54 and read 9768 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 3):
I never understood the logic behind this route to begin with. IB couldn't even maintain IAD nor LAX year-round.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that BOS is a bigger market to the Iberian peninsula than either LAX or IAD.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 3):
Sadly, this is really the state of EU flag carriers. Their short-haul ops are unprofitable, their long-haul ops can no longer subsidize the losses of those short-haul flights, and slowly and surely, the network is culled and things start to unravel.

Please, there are far more profitable European carriers than there are unprofitable ones.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 25):
A generalisation like that is as bad as saying all US legacy airlines have sought Chapter 11 protection

  
Even that is a lot closer to the truth than the above generalization  
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
Hopefully AA will start the route with a 757

I don't think so. If they really wanted to serve a low yield destination in Europe from BOS they would start with LIS, amongst many others  
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 13):
BOS-ZRH is 84 PDEW and you don't see LX having many issues on BOS-ZRH

Again, I'm going to go our on a limb and say that ZRH commands higher yields than MAD. Also, ZRH is a better hub, not only for Europe but also with connections to Asia. And third but not least, LX is a far better run airline than IB.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-31 06:29:57 and read 9791 times.

I could definitely see this route being picked up with a MAX/NEO HGW in a couple years as well as it is less than 3,000nm.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2013-05-31 08:48:39 and read 8987 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 25):
A generalisation like that is as bad as saying all US legacy airlines have sought Chapter 11 protection except that, while airlines like BA, KL and LH have remained operationally profitable, all US legacy airlines have actually been in Chapter 11 protection relatively recently.

Um, that's because all US legacy carriers HAVE sought out Chapter 11 protection. It is not a generalization. I don't understand your logic.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 26):
Please, there are far more profitable European carriers than there are unprofitable ones.

Note that I was referring to flag carriers. Not LCCs. Big difference. IB, SK, AZ, LO, AF, OS, TP are just a few examples of airlines that aren't really fitting your description.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-31 09:37:10 and read 8777 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 27):
I could definitely see this route being picked up with a MAX/NEO HGW in a couple years as well as it is less than 3,000nm.

Doubtful. MAD is just hot enough and high enough to make this very difficult on the west bound route.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
Note that I was referring to flag carriers. Not LCCs. Big difference. IB, SK, AZ, LO, AF, OS, TP are just a few examples of airlines that aren't really fitting your description.

TP has been profitable just about every year since 2000, including 2012.
http://atwonline.com/finance-amp-dat...ruples-2012-net-profit-159-million

Also there's little reason to believe that AF and OS won't come out of it. AZ however, I've lost hope.

Profitable carriers: TP, BA, VS, EI, LH, LX, SN, KL, TK, etc. Just as many if not more. But I do agree that the European landscape will look more consolidated in the near future.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: AA777
Posted 2013-05-31 09:48:50 and read 8740 times.

Boston is such a bizarre market.

It's too small to be big, and too big to be small.

I think these ventures to smaller intl markets are going to be tough for airlines. You can find enough people who want to fly nonstop to LHR, FRA and CDG (on AF with a 744), but the relatively smaller European markets are just tough. I'm not sure IB is strong enough of a carrier intraeurope or otherwise to compete with the connections that BA, LH and AF have.

It reminds me of IB's off and on again presence at IAD. And IAD and DC as a whole has a lot more intl market share...

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-05-31 10:00:19 and read 8668 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 11):
It wasn't an incident, they crashed a DC-10 there, the first of it's kind to be written off, although luckily there were no fatalities. IB 933* on December 17, 1973, at 15h42 local. Lucky escape for 167 passengers.

I was at Logan Airport that day and the Iberia aircraft did a normal approach to the runway with no mechanical problems. He came in too fast and touched down very hard on the runway. The aircraft broke in half, just in front of the wings

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-05-31 11:00:49 and read 8487 times.

Quoting AA777 (Reply 30):
I think these ventures to smaller intl markets are going to be tough for airlines. You can find enough people who want to fly nonstop to LHR, FRA and CDG (on AF with a 744), but the relatively smaller European markets are just tough.

I don't think it's the size as much as the yields. I'd be surprised if FRA was a big market from BOS. But it is a profitable market and if offers a lot of connections. Outside of LHR are there any big destinations from BOS? It's all about the connections.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-05-31 11:08:08 and read 8509 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
Outside of LHR are there any big destinations from BOS?

PAR, FRA, ROM and DUB.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: mfc
Posted 2013-05-31 11:52:16 and read 8409 times.

Here it is the article from Airline Route:

http://airlineroute.net/2013/05/31/ib-w13update1/

It says BOS going seasonal. There are some other changes for next Winter season.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-05-31 12:24:44 and read 8296 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
PAR, FRA, ROM and DUB.

AMS too (115 PDEW)

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: hinckley
Posted 2013-05-31 12:32:59 and read 8298 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
Outside of LHR are there any big destinations from BOS? It's all about the connections.

NRT, SNN (seasonal), DUB, CDG, AMS, FRA, MUC, ZRH, FCO

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-05-31 13:23:34 and read 8054 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
PAR, FRA, ROM and DUB.

You mean CDG, FRA, FCO, and DUB. I get that you were probably going for the cities in general, not just the airports, but it is a lot easier to understand like this.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2013-05-31 14:46:59 and read 7842 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 26):
I don't think so. If they really wanted to serve a low yield destination in Europe from BOS they would start with LIS, amongst many others

They have the JV with IB, so this will better-size the market in the winter months. It can only help, right?

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-01 04:46:26 and read 7320 times.

Quoting hinckley (Reply 36):
NRT, SNN (seasonal), DUB, CDG, AMS, FRA, MUC, ZRH, FCO

Thank you, this is very interesting. Do you happen to have the PDEW numbers for those markets?

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: by738
Posted 2013-06-01 05:33:27 and read 7245 times.

Redirecting Euro passengers through BA at LHR and the far more profitable arm of IAG ?

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: r2rho
Posted 2013-06-01 06:48:41 and read 7132 times.

Quoting mfc (Reply 34):
Here it is the article from Airline Route:
http://airlineroute.net/2013/05/31/ib-w13update1/
It says BOS going seasonal. There are some other changes for next Winter season.

Thank you for the link, this puts it all in perspective. It's a seasonal cut only, as expected. From the looks of it BOS performs well in the summer but is highly seasonal. So instead of maintaining a route that struggles in winter, IB prefers to use the aircraft to increase frequencies to MIA, MEX and SCL. Makes perfect business sense to me.

The link also shows that the new A333's will be progressively taking over all North America routes, as was to be expected.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-06-01 15:49:46 and read 6690 times.

IB dropping Boston back to seasonal I think is indicative of the bigger and long term difficulty Iberia has in the US market.

Gone is IAD, while its return to LAX as well has had to be rolled back to into a seasonal only route.

Besides NYC and MIA, I am not sure IB has the market power to keep routes like BOS around.
Even ORD is extremely heavily reliant on connection flow from AA to keep it alive.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-02 06:23:40 and read 6266 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 42):
Besides NYC and MIA, I am not sure IB has the market power to keep routes like BOS around.

BOS has an advantage over just about any other city in that is has high Summer demand for Portugal and IB can capitalize on that. SATA used to take a big chunck of this market but over the years have struggled (and reducing frequencies), and I will be surprised if they are still serving BOS 12 months from now. Heck I wouldn't be at all socked if they shutdown, and that would be a big advantage to IB in the BOS market. IB is a well known brand both in Portugal and the Portuguese communities in the US, and the language and social similarities between the 2 communities would make this a very easy market for IB to penetrate.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2013-06-02 07:12:54 and read 6163 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 31):
I was at Logan Airport that day and the Iberia aircraft did a normal approach to the runway with no mechanical problems. He came in too fast and touched down very hard on the runway. The aircraft broke in half, just in front of the wings

I thought he hit the lights jutting out into the harbor.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-06-02 08:04:09 and read 6051 times.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 44):
I thought he hit the lights jutting out into the harbor.

I believe that was the World Airways DC-10 that broke in half upon landing at BOS

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: VV701
Posted 2013-06-02 08:20:35 and read 6024 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 45):
I believe that was the World Airways DC-10 that broke in half upon landing at BOS

A different incident.

Here is a report on the IB DC-10 BOS accident. The aircraft was EC-CBN. It did not break in half:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19731217-2&lang=es

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2013-06-02 10:40:50 and read 5838 times.

The IB DC-10 hit the lights on the pier; the World DC-10-30 settled too far down the runway and couldn't brake in time before going off the end and into Boston Harbor. There was shared blame all around on that one, helped along by ice.

The elephant in the living room is a woeful European economy...particularly Spain...that needs every tourism and business dollar that it can vacuum up. And with no flights to carry those dollar-spending people to Spain, the misery will continue. Granted, a daily flight from Boston does not a 'recovering economy' make, but Spain is in no position to send tourism dollars elsewhere.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-06-02 11:19:57 and read 5787 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 43):
BOS has an advantage over just about any other city in that is has high Summer demand for Portugal and IB can capitalize on that.

BOS' demand to Portugal is centered on the Azores, not mainland Portugal. Iberia doesn't even fly to the Azores, IIRC.

Amd I would not be surprised if a lot of the traffic currently flying BOSLIS is probably making its way to the Azores on a separate ticket.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: mfc
Posted 2013-06-02 11:44:20 and read 5726 times.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 47):

Most tourists visit Spain during Spring and Summer, Iberia has not cancelled BOS and LAX during that period as dollar tourism is profitable. There is also a lot of people in Spain that visit the USA in Summer, for vacation or education purposes.

During Winter things seem to change, and I think, as well as others here, it makes sense to send planes in Winter where there are more business market and demand from/to Spain, such as MEX, SCL or MIA. Iberia needs to recover profitability as soon as possible and they can't afford to run non-profitable routes.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-06-02 12:45:50 and read 5607 times.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 47):
The elephant in the living room is a woeful European economy...particularly Spain...

Yep. We're in the 5th year of this global "recession" (or is it a "depression"). People are beginning to think that this is the "new normal" and have forgotten what the world is like when it isn't in an economic mess as it has been recently.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-02 13:14:14 and read 5528 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 48):
BOS' demand to Portugal is centered on the Azores, not mainland Portugal. Iberia doesn't even fly to the Azores, IIRC.

I would say it's both. This is the first year as far as I can remember that SATA is not doing the non-stop BOS-LIS and I think that has a lot to do with the sad state of their finances (and politics), more than market forces. SATA has been slowly but surely pulling out of BOS. At one point they served both LIS and OPO non-stop. Now they only serve PDL. This is why I think they won't be here next Summer. If all they want to serve is PDL they're better off flying from PVD.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 48):
Amd I would not be surprised if a lot of the traffic currently flying BOSLIS is probably making its way to the Azores on a separate ticket.

Why do that when SATA can get you to the Azores for less than it costs to fly BOS-LIS? IIRC they had 2x weekly BOS-PDL in the Summer, or maybe even 3x, I can't recall.

But I hear what you're saying, they have 3x to PDL and they killed BOS-LIS so the market is much bigger to PDL. That's true but it doesn't mean the market to LIS in non-existent. But I do know that SATA is heavily subsized by the government of the Azores and their only reason for existing to link Azorean immigrant communities who bring in a huge amount of money to the islands. They are not in the business of making money. They are essentially a public transportation service for the Azorean community. But I heard that the EU will start to crack down on these subsidies (they were exempt from the ban on state subsidies for some reason), so if that happens that will be the end of SATA.

Anyway, we're way off topic here. Shocking! 
So to pull it back on topic, SATA pulling out of the BOS-LIS market may be the shot in the arm that IB needs to keep this route seasonally. Between TP not wanting to serve BOS, and AZ continuing to be a complete disaster, I think IB has the potential for attracting a good amount of the connecting traffic to Portugal and Italy.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-06-02 13:46:03 and read 5445 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 51):

SATA is flying non-stop BOS-LIS 2x weekly this summer, BOS-PDL 4x weekly and BOS-TER 1-2x weekly

Its VFR trafffic, folks from Peabody, Lowell, Fall River, and New Bedford travel to Azores and mainland Portugal regardless of the economy.

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-03 08:25:57 and read 5046 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 52):

SATA is flying non-stop BOS-LIS 2x weekly this summer

You're absolutely right. The non-stop is back. For July they have the following 3 destinations from BOS:
S4 200 BOS-LIS 2x
S4 220 BOS-PDL 6x
S4 230 BOS-TER 1x

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: mfc
Posted 2013-06-03 14:31:42 and read 4824 times.

Passengers and operations between MAD and BOS in the recent time:

2012:
Jan: 3650 pax, 23 ops
Feb: 2855 pax, 21 ops (minimum with an average of 135 pax per flight and 2,6 flights per week)
Mar: 6272 pax, 30 ops
Apr: 9025 pax, 43 ops
May: 9579 pax, 44 ops
Jun: 11906 pax, 51 ops
Jul: 13145 pax, 53 ops
Aug: 13415 pax, 52 ops (maximum with an average of 258 pax per flight and 6,5 flights per week)
Sep: 10037 pax, 46 ops
Oct: 5639 pax, 25 ops
Nov: 4975 pax, 26 ops
Dec: 5108 pax, 27 ops

2013:
Jan: 4319 pax, 26 ops
Feb: 3067 pax, 22 ops
Mar: 7289 pax, 34 ops
Apr: 7870 pax, 42 ops

Although we don't have an idea about yields or cargo, we can get an idea of loads and its evolution.

Link from Aena's website (only in Spanish, sorry):
http://estadisticas.aena.es/csee/Satellite?pagename=Estadisticas/Home

Topic: RE: Iberia Suspending Boston
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-06-04 04:35:42 and read 4471 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 46):
Here is a report on the IB DC-10 BOS accident. The aircraft was EC-CBN. It did not break in half:

The pictures of the IB DC-10 sure lookslike it is in two sextions to me


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