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Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: RubberJungle
Posted 2013-05-30 04:02:33 and read 29088 times.

Singapore Airlines has just ordered 30 Boeing 787-10Xs.

Singapore Airlines orders 787-10Xs and A350s worth $17bn

[Edited 2013-05-30 04:25:43 by SA7700]

[Edited 2013-05-30 04:36:52]

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 04:08:00 and read 29110 times.

http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/340060082614185985

> 30x B787-10X
> 30x A350-900

Looks like SQ will be the launch customer of the 787-10X.

[Edited 2013-05-30 04:10:52]

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-30 04:24:48 and read 28764 times.

Interesting. This would be their third order for the A350-900 before it has even flown for a total of 70. With the 30 10X's that makes 100 aircraft in the 300-325 segment essentially equaling the entire size of their current fleet. Maybe many of the 787-10s will be going to Scoot.

tortugamon

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 04:27:24 and read 28713 times.

Full article here:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-787-10x-with-order-for-30-386486/

So to sum up:

> 30x B787-10X and launch customer of the type
> 30x A350-900
> 20x A350(-900/-1000) options

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-05-30 04:28:10 and read 28655 times.

Hmmm .. Paris has started early.
 

[Edited 2013-05-30 04:32:28]

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: waly777
Posted 2013-05-30 04:32:40 and read 28555 times.

Oh the Paris airshow is certainly going to be very interesting indeed with the widebodies.

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-05-30 04:34:35 and read 28503 times.

Will this be A359 for SIA main line and 787-10 for Scoot?

Really wonder when SQ will order A350-1000 though.

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-05-30 04:36:39 and read 28436 times.

Lets hope so, Boeing needs some good news for a change and an airline with Singapore's Stature would be grest emdorsement.

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-30 04:40:06 and read 28321 times.

And this even before the Paris Air Show and the first Flight.

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-30 04:41:06 and read 28335 times.

Thats the end for the last 772 and 773s then, and as well for the A333s.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 6):
Really wonder when SQ will order A350-1000 though.

The 77Ws are still a bit young to be retired I would say.

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-30 04:43:19 and read 28292 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
30x A350-900

And according to the FG article, 20 options that can be for -900 or -1000.

Quote:

"Today's aircraft orders are among the biggest in Singapore Airlines' history, helping to ensure that we retain our industry leading position," says chief executive Goh Choon Phong.

Yes indeed.

Continues the trend at SIA for making significant purchases.

It also gives both A and B fans something to be happy about!   

Seems someone has already bumped up the totals on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_airlines#Fleet

They also provided a reference: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ion-of-airbus-boeing-aircraft.html

Not much more in that article from what I can tell.

Congrats, SIA, Airbus and Boeing!         

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Blueshamu330s
Posted 2013-05-30 04:51:32 and read 28130 times.

Boeing really needed a bit of good news flow, and coming from Singapore, it gives the proposed B787-10X a blue chip endorsement.

Congrats to Boeing, Airbus and Singapore.

Rgds

Topic: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-05-30 04:55:58 and read 28027 times.

The thread title should be changed

Quoting na (Reply 9):
Thats the end for the last 772 and 773s then, and as well for the A333s.

Hmmm ... SIA still has 13 A333 on order.
I cant see them leave the fleet that early.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: 9vswr
Posted 2013-05-30 04:59:53 and read 27926 times.

Quoting chiad (Reply 12):
Hmmm ... SIA still has 13 A333 on order.
I cant see them leave the fleet that early.

IIRC, the initial batch of 19 A333s were on 6-year leases. Not sure if anything has changed since the A333s were delivered.

[Edited 2013-05-30 05:02:11]

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: JerseyFlyer
Posted 2013-05-30 05:03:57 and read 27820 times.

Its not 100% clear to me that the 30 359s are additional to the 20 original order plus the recent 20 top-up. FG says "as it firmed orders for 30 more Airbus A350-900s."

If the 20 top-ups were not firmed before today, this new order represents only 10 additional for a total of 50 now firm.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-05-30 05:05:05 and read 27779 times.

Quoting 9vswr (Reply 13):
IIRC, the initial batch of 19 A333s were on 6-year leases. Not sure if anything has changed since the A333s were delivered.

These will obviously leave the fleet.
But that of the 13 on order?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 05:07:36 and read 27720 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 6):
Will this be A359 for SIA main line and 787-10 for Scoot?

It could, or maybe SQ has enough different routes to operate both aircraft. The A359 and 78J are similar sized but with a different range each.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 6):
Really wonder when SQ will order A350-1000 though.

When the time is ready, after the design freeze of the -1000 maybe. Their options and conversion rights for the larger type clearly shows their interest for the A350-1000.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 14):
Its not 100% clear to me that the 30 359s are additional to the 20 original order plus the recent 20 top-up. FG says "as it firmed orders for 30 more Airbus A350-900s."

If the 20 top-ups were not firmed before today, this new order represents only 10 additional for a total of 50 now firm.

Those 40 aircraft were already firmed so we're now looking at 70 A350 aircraft.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-05-30 05:15:03 and read 27522 times.

Quoting na (Reply 9):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 6):Really wonder when SQ will order A350-1000 though.
The 77Ws are still a bit young to be retired I would say.

They are now, but in 2019 most of them will be around 12 years old, about the age when SQ usually retires their aircraft. That is also about the first availability for A350-1000 delivery slots I believe.
Speaking about delivery, the first of these new order will be delivered 2016-2017. Did SQ have options on A350s?

I suppose the 20 new options for either -900 or -1000 could be used for possible 77W replacement. Maybe SQ wants to see more information about the 777X before making a decision.

When will the 8 77W's SQ has on order be delivered?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-05-30 05:15:18 and read 27526 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 16):
It could, or maybe SQ has enough different routes to operate both aircraft. The A359 and 78J are similar sized but with a different range each.

This, I think, is the appeal of the 7810. It is ideal for airlines not needing the range of the A359, and therefore should cost less to own and operate. Just as the A333 and 772 have nicely coexisted, I think the A359 and the 7810 will find a similar fate. I believe Boeing made the right decision not to try and increase the range of the 7810.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-05-30 05:15:24 and read 27527 times.

787-10's might indeed be atleast partially for Scoot.

Scoot CEO back in March said they were looking at the proposed -10 with interest.

Scoot Adds Seoul; Increase TPE; To Get 787-8 (by LAXintl Mar 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)

=

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: JerseyFlyer
Posted 2013-05-30 05:16:20 and read 27496 times.

If the 7510s are for Scoot, SIA's mainline fleet will be all-Airbus in the not too distant future - A333's, A359/10s, and A388s.

Quite a turnaround from all-Boeing - 744s and 777s only after having traded 17 x 343s to Boeing in recent memory!

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 05:21:27 and read 27386 times.

Also interesting is the speculated list price of the larger 787:

Quote:
SIA announcement gives first rough indication of 10X pricing: backing out A359 from $17bln deal implies at least $312m, 28% premium to 789


> 787-8: $206.8m
> 787-9: $243.6m
> 787-10X: $312m

[Edited 2013-05-30 05:22:38]

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-05-30 05:23:22 and read 27338 times.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 20):
If the 7510s are for Scoot, SIA's mainline fleet will be all-Airbus in the not too distant future - A333's, A359/10s, and A388s.

As said earlier, A333s are only on 6 year leases and were intended to bridge the gap until 787/A350 could be delivered.

And SQ has still 8x 77W to be delivered.

I'm sure SQ will also take a good look at the 777X, and who knows, perhaps order them to fill the gap between A350 and A380 if necessary.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-30 05:27:19 and read 27222 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
And according to the FG article, 20 options that can be for -900 or -1000.

Not - 800, or?

[Edited 2013-05-30 05:29:30]

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-05-30 05:28:53 and read 27171 times.

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 11):
Boeing really needed a bit of good news flow, and coming from Singapore, it gives the proposed B787-10X a blue chip endorsement.

Not sure I'd paint the picture that way. Sure the 787 program has provided a lot of disappointments but the fundamentals have been clear for a while, and they are that the 787 is a product the customers want and need.

Despite the bad public image, Boeing's order books are full, their stock price is high and their financials are solid even with the challenges that are coming from government spending and it's own failures to execute.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 17):

I suppose the 20 new options for either -900 or -1000 could be used for possible 77W replacement. Maybe SQ wants to see more information about the 777X before making a decision.

That sounds about right. Seems 787-10X is around six months ahead of 777X in terms of it being a firmed product offering.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 20):
Quite a turnaround from all-Boeing - 744s and 777s only after having traded 17 x 343s to Boeing in recent memory!

Good point, but as above SIA rebuilds on a 12 year cycle so I'm thinking we'll be seeing 777Xs, and these may dampen SIA's zeal for A380s as they come off lease. Not saying that the A380 will disappear, just saying it make be more optimal for roles the A380 might be to big/expensive to continue to hold.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-30 05:32:12 and read 28571 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
This, I think, is the appeal of the 7810. It is ideal for airlines not needing the range of the A359, and therefore should cost less to own and operate.

Cost less to operate, yes. But I would wager that the 787-10 cost more to buy than the A359 even with SQ being the launch customer. ~$40 million higher at list price. After they sell a couple hundred of these the 787 break even point should more up a little bit   .

https://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/340075850445762563

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 20):

If the 7510s are for Scoot, SIA's mainline fleet will be all-Airbus in the not too distant future

Maybe, if you call 2027 not so distant future. They still have 8 77Ws on order.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: na
Posted 2013-05-30 05:34:35 and read 28266 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 17):
Quoting na (Reply 9):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 6):Really wonder when SQ will order A350-1000 though.
The 77Ws are still a bit young to be retired I would say.

They are now, but in 2019 most of them will be around 12 years old, about the age when SQ usually retires their aircraft. That is also about the first availability for A350-1000 delivery slots I believe.

Thats right, SQ will certainly retire the first 77Ws by then.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 05:38:24 and read 29302 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 24):
Good point, but as above SIA rebuilds on a 12 year cycle so I'm thinking we'll be seeing 777Xs, and these may dampen SIA's zeal for A380s as they come off lease. Not saying that the A380 will disappear, just saying it make be more optimal for roles the A380 might be to big/expensive to continue to hold.

Their order of 5 A380 aircraft last year will replace the oldest A380s in 2017, meaning they will have an A380 fleet until 2030 at least.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-05-30 05:39:44 and read 29071 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
Looks like SQ will be the launch customer of the 787-10X.

Great news to read that such a respected blue chip customer orders this new airliner first (depending on formal launch by Boeing according to the article in Flightglobal).  .

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
So to sum up:

> 30x B787-10X and launch customer of the type
> 30x A350-900
> 20x A350(-900/-1000) options

Quite an impressive line-up. Especially the 20 options which could become A350-1000's are interesting here.     .

Quoting na (Reply 9):
Thats the end for the last 772 and 773s then, and as well for the A333s.

Not quite I guess. The B7772 has hardly been sold over the last years. The B773 is also hardly orderer anymore, but the B77W is still very successful in securing new orders. Also the A332 and A333 are still very successful in securing new orders.

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 11):
Congrats to Boeing, Airbus and Singapore.

Congratulations to all parties involved are indeed due. Probably Rolls-Royce can also be congratulated.  .

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 16):
When the time is ready, after the design freeze of the -1000 maybe. Their options and conversion rights for the larger type clearly shows their interest for the A350-1000.

My guess is they will take the options and convert them to 20 x A350-1000. But that is purely speculation on my part.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 22):
I'm sure SQ will also take a good look at the 777X, and who knows, perhaps order them to fill the gap between A350 and A380 if necessary.

  .

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: fcogafa
Posted 2013-05-30 05:51:41 and read 28555 times.

Strange quote in FG that, inferring SIA will only order the aircraft if it is launched....

Well duh!

[Edited 2013-05-30 05:59:18]

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2013-05-30 05:53:43 and read 28580 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 22):
I'm sure SQ will also take a good look at the 777X, and who knows, perhaps order them to fill the gap between A350 and A380 if necessary.

I think this is the end for the 777X in the SQ main fleet. SQ took the lead in specifying the XWB cabin width as optimum for 9 abreast, and I can see not see where the 777x will fit. The A350-900/1000 can do anything the 77W can do today, and I don't see a need for a 777X with SQ standard Y in 9 abreast if an A350 can do it more effectively and I can not see them go 10 abreast for the premier routes to the US (where the 777X is most suited for) when having a higher standard of seating for non-premium routes.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-30 05:56:07 and read 28351 times.

Quoting RubberJungle (Thread starter):
SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + (20) Options
This is the best message of the last Days.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: PM
Posted 2013-05-30 05:56:55 and read 28487 times.

I remember falling off my chair some time in the mid 1990s when SQ ordered 77 777s.

Looks like they'll have that number of A350s.  

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: gilesdavies
Posted 2013-05-30 05:57:03 and read 28417 times.

If Airbus can get their newly built A350 in the air in the next few weeks as they plan, I think we could see the floodgates open to a load more orders, as airlines get confidence that any new delays to the A350's launch are unlikely...

When Boeing revealed their 787, it was nearly two years before we saw the aircraft on its initial test flights.

This is a massive order for both companies and congratulations to both manufacturers.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 05:59:14 and read 28202 times.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 29):
Also it says the A359s will be delelivered in 2016 - a bit soon?

They probably had some delivery slots reserved.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2013-05-30 06:01:32 and read 28133 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 34):
They probably had some delivery slots reserved.

I believe they are the second airline to receive the A359 after QR and they ordered the A350 more than a year before anyone else as a reward for Airbus in making it an XWB.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 06:02:45 and read 28161 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 28):
Especially the 20 options which could become A350-1000's are interesting here.

Yes the -1000 is picking up a lot of interest lately.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 33):
If Airbus can get their newly built A350 in the air in the next few weeks as they plan, I think we could see the floodgates open to a load more orders, as airlines get confidence that any new delays to the A350's launch are unlikely...

Leahy was lately hinting about 80 A350 sales this year but if we add all the rumors together I get about 130 orders. Makes we wonder which rumor will stay a rumor   

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-05-30 06:03:15 and read 28168 times.

SIA has covered their bases nicely! Kudos to them.

Quoting chiad (Reply 4):
Hmmm .. Paris has started early.

That was my first thought. Why not wait for Paris... but if it is a 78J order... This will help final negotiations

Quoting 9vswr (Reply 13):
IIRC, the initial batch of 19 A333s were on 6-year leases.

   Well, IIRC it was 5 years... With an option if SIA so desired for 2 more years. It might have been 6 years... any way, they were *short* leases that were incredibly in SIA's favor.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 29):
Strange quote in FG that, inferring SIA will only order the aircraft if it is launched....

Well duh!

I think its an out for Boeing... if Boeing changes the specification, SIA also has an out.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-05-30 06:07:09 and read 28010 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 37):
I think its an out for Boeing... if Boeing changes the specification, SIA also has an out.

I'm sure Boeing will formally launch at Paris, now, and likely with multiple customers. So it could be SQ getting out front of that announcement.

It will be interesting to see if Boeing also announces an increase in the 787 production rate beyond the planned 10 per month.

[Edited 2013-05-30 06:08:14]

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: neutrino
Posted 2013-05-30 06:12:42 and read 27737 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 28):
Quoting na (Reply 9):
Thats the end for the last 772 and 773s then, and as well for the A333s.

Not quite I guess. The B7772 has hardly been sold over the last years. The B773 is also hardly orderer anymore, but the B77W is still very successful in securing new orders. Also the A332 and A333 are still very successful in securing new orders.

na is talking about SQ retiring the A333s & T7s in their fleet, not the manufacturers shutting the tap on those fine birds.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-05-30 06:18:45 and read 27524 times.

Quoting chiad (Reply 15):
Quoting 9vswr (Reply 13):
IIRC, the initial batch of 19 A333s were on 6-year leases. Not sure if anything has changed since the A333s were delivered.

These will obviously leave the fleet.
But that of the 13 on order?

The 78Js will start arriving from 2018-19 to replace existing A330s (some of which will probably have their original 6 year leases extended slightly), while A330s arriving over the next couple of years (to replace regional 777s if I understand correctly) will be replaced by 78Js as their 6 year leases come up from 2020ish. Makes perfect sense to me.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
I believe Boeing made the right decision not to try and increase the range of the 7810.

I think it's incredible to think that the 78J is a 'regional', 'mid-range' aircraft while having almost as much range as the 744, which was revolutionary in its day. I agree though, Boeing will do more damage than good if they try to push the range up any further.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: NYC777
Posted 2013-05-30 06:23:06 and read 27331 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):
It will be interesting to see if Boeing also announces an increase in the 787 production rate beyond the planned 10 per month.

They will have to go at least to 12/month by 2016 in order to support the demand for the 787-10 by 2018. I can see Boeing going to 14/month by 2016-2017 and they have plenty of capacity to do this.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-05-30 06:24:26 and read 27248 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 25):
Cost less to operate, yes. But I would wager that the 787-10 cost more to buy than the A359 even with SQ being the launch customer. ~$40 million higher at list price. After they sell a couple hundred of these the 787 break even point should more up a little bit

List prices have little to do with reality. And initial price is a small part of ownership costs for an airliner. Still, Boeing will have to make the initial cost competitive, or they will not sell any.

Quoting neutrino (Reply 39):
na is talking about SQ retiring the A333s & T7s in their fleet, not the manufacturers shutting the tap on those fine birds.

I think Boeing is not offering the 773 any more, and nobody is buying the 77E. AFAIK all of the orders for 777's in the last couple of years have been for the 77W and 77F. Whether it's official or not, that is the reality.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-05-30 06:27:44 and read 27163 times.

Quoting neutrino (Reply 39):
na is talking about SQ retiring the A333s & T7s in their fleet, not the manufacturers shutting the tap on those fine birds.

That could very well be true. In that case I have misinterpreted his post.  

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-05-30 06:28:25 and read 27091 times.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 33):
If Airbus can get their newly built A350 in the air in the next few weeks as they plan, I think we could see the floodgates open to a load more orders, as airlines get confidence that any new delays to the A350's launch are unlikely...

I don't think the bottleneck is lack of confidence Airbus would be in time with FF... More like first available delivery slots are 6 years away, and that is if flight tests and production ramp-up are going to plan. Only if any uncertainties there have been taken away, we could see airlines ordering in masses again. Could be some years yet (same thing with the 787, the flow of big orders from the first years after introduction still hasn't returned. GFC isn't helping either).

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: PM
Posted 2013-05-30 06:47:21 and read 26490 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 42):
AFAIK all of the orders for 777's in the last couple of years have been for the 77W and 77F. Whether it's official or not, that is the reality.

Funnily enough, the most recent order on the Boeing O&D page is for a single 777L (BBJ) on 26th April. There has been a trickle of 777L orders over the past three years but essentially, you're right. The only two models selling now are the 777W and the 777F. On the other hand, they're selling pretty well!

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: anfromme
Posted 2013-05-30 06:49:53 and read 26442 times.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 14):
Its not 100% clear to me that the 30 359s are additional to the 20 original order plus the recent 20 top-up. FG says "as it firmed orders for 30 more Airbus A350-900s."

If the 20 top-ups were not firmed before today, this new order represents only 10 additional for a total of 50 now firm.

That one is easy to answer: The Airbus spreadsheet dated April 30th shows 40 A350-900 for SIA. So firming up a further 30 takes that total to 70.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 29):
Strange quote in FG that, inferring SIA will only order the aircraft if it is launched....

Makes sense, really, as the 787-10X hasn't been formally launched by Boeing yet.
The announcement of American Airlines's 737RE order was worded similarly.

I'm not suggesting that Boeing aren't going to launch it, but it would be pretty silly to not cover these kinds of eventualities in purchase contracts, just in case. And it's probably also important to point this out in the press release given that Boeing hasn't given a formal launch to the project and there are still a few things to sign off on internally.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-05-30 06:51:30 and read 26364 times.

Quoting PM (Reply 45):
The only two models selling now are the 777W and the 777F. On the other hand, they're selling pretty well!

Agreed. And they're selling because the only competition they have at this point is the 748. Once the A3510 becomes available in a realistic and predictable time frame, however, this will change (except for the 77F); hence the dire need for Boeing to proceed with the 777x.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-30 06:57:33 and read 26257 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
And according to the FG article, 20 options that can be for -900 or -1000.

Yes.

Quote:
It also took options for 20 more A350-900 aircraft and said these could be converted to the larger A350-1000.

UPDATE: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...lines-orders-idUSL3N0EB2NS20130530

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-05-30 07:04:12 and read 25924 times.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 46):
Makes sense, really, as the 787-10X hasn't been formally launched by Boeing yet.
The announcement of American Airlines's 737RE order was worded similarly.

I sense that the B787 order is not firm, but "only" a commitment. There is nothing on the Boeing website.
It will be interesting to see the Boeing spreadsheet for April.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: anfromme
Posted 2013-05-30 07:06:47 and read 25815 times.

Quoting chiad (Reply 49):
I sense that the B787 order is not firm, but "only" a commitment. There is nothing on the Boeing website.
It will be interesting to see the Boeing spreadsheet for April.

You can't firm an order for a type that hasn't been formally launched. Until that happens, you won't see this order on the Boeing website.
As I said - same situation with the AA 737RE order. The actual launch order came four or five months later and was placed by Southwest if I recall correctly.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-05-30 07:09:21 and read 25749 times.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 50):
You can't firm an order for a type that hasn't been formally launched. Until that happens, you won't see this order on the Boeing website.
As I said - same situation with the AA 737RE order. The actual launch order came four or five months later and was placed by Southwest if I recall correctly.

Ah .. so it's just a media hype.
  

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: mptpa
Posted 2013-05-30 07:30:11 and read 24815 times.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 8):
And this even before the Paris Air Show and the first Flight.

And even before the 787-10 is officially launched!!! Great endorsement. I wonder when with SIA order 777X, if any given there is door open for 350-1000.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: sturmovik
Posted 2013-05-30 07:46:37 and read 24184 times.

I couldn't find anything on the Airbus website, maybe the 'formal' signing will happen at Paris?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-30 08:04:04 and read 23745 times.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 50):
You can't firm an order for a type that hasn't been formally launched. Until that happens, you won't see this order on the Boeing website.

The 787-10X had its ATO in October last year meaning Boeing can sell it to its customers. And those customers know exactly what the 787-10X will be. So I assume SQ has signed some sort of MoU and they will probably firm it during the Paris airshow (when the 787-10X will likely have its formal launch).

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: astuteman
Posted 2013-05-30 08:08:11 and read 23574 times.

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 11):
Boeing really needed a bit of good news flow, and coming from Singapore, it gives the proposed B787-10X a blue chip endorsement.

It also shows that the A350-900 and 787-10 can be ordered side-by-side

Rgds

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: SIA747Megatop
Posted 2013-05-30 08:18:48 and read 23236 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 17):
When will the 8 77W's SQ has on order be delivered?

August. They will hit the flight line in September to LHR with the new IFE, F and J products.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-05-30 08:21:55 and read 23180 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 55):

It also shows that the A350-900 and 787-10 can be ordered side-by-side

Just like the A333 and 772.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-05-30 08:31:17 and read 22872 times.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 55):
It also shows that the A350-900 and 787-10 can be ordered side-by-side

Especially if they may not actually be operated by the same airline. I think there's a good chance these 787s are destined for Scoot.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-05-30 08:46:28 and read 22439 times.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 46):
Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 14):
Its not 100% clear to me that the 30 359s are additional to the 20 original order plus the recent 20 top-up. FG says "as it firmed orders for 30 more Airbus A350-900s."

If the 20 top-ups were not firmed before today, this new order represents only 10 additional for a total of 50 now firm.

That one is easy to answer: The Airbus spreadsheet dated April 30th shows 40 A350-900 for SIA. So firming up a further 30 takes that total to 70.

  

per aviation weeks article
“The agreement with Airbus is SIA’s third for A350-900s, lifting the airline’s firm orders for the type to 70. They are intended for use on medium and long-range routes. The 787-10Xs are also intended for use on medium-range routes,” according to a statement issued on Thursday"

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: anfromme
Posted 2013-05-30 08:49:07 and read 22316 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 54):
The 787-10X had its ATO in October last year meaning Boeing can sell it to its customers.

They can offer it to customers. Big difference.
Unless the programme is launched, they can't actually sign a firm order.

Again, I'm not saying they won't launch it - it's a formality, albeit an important one.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 54):
And those customers know exactly what the 787-10X will be. So I assume SQ has signed some sort of MoU and they will probably firm it during the Paris airshow (when the 787-10X will likely have its formal launch).

Possible that it's going to be signed straight away, but not necessarily the case. Remember that even with fully launched products, it sometimes takes a while to iron out all the kinks and sign a firm order after an MoU. The AF A350 MoU comes to mind, but there are many more less-obvious ones (such as LX's recent 777W order, which took a while to be firmed up as well).

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-05-30 09:03:34 and read 21943 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 59):
Especially if they may not actually be operated by the same airline. I think there's a good chance these 787s are destined for Scoot.

How well is Scoot doing that they will need so many planes? Silkair wasn't exactly a massive hit for years though I know the Scoot model is different. And isn't Scoot supposed to be "protecting" SQ groups market share by stopping people going to Air Asia etc Seems all these orders indicate they see SQ needing the same capacity as presently while Scoot is going to be pretty big too. How realistic is this?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: JerseyFlyer
Posted 2013-05-30 09:42:54 and read 20898 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 63):
If it makes you any happier, I consider SQ a prime candidate for the 777-9X launch order as well. They will need something to fill the gap between A350-1000s and A380s capacity-wise.

I think this is more likely than not, especially given that they like to order whatever is newest, although the 3510 may prove big enough for their sub-A388 routes. I guess this will be demand-driven (i.e. is there a real demand gap to match the apparent capacity gap) and it will also factor into any future A380 orders by SIA.

I wonder if they will take any of their A350 options as A358s to re-start the SIN - LAX / EWR non-stop ULHs? Or 778s if they need something bigger?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-05-30 09:49:31 and read 20829 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 63):
If it makes you any happier, I consider SQ a prime candidate for the 777-9X launch order as well. They will need something to fill the gap between A350-1000s and A380s capacity-wise.

Two things to counter that with SQ:

1. Their often-quoted willingness to "abuse" an aircraft rather than introduce something else. Not necessarily the same context, of course, but an A388/A3510 duo might be just as fine as the A388/77W dueo or 744/772 duo.

2. They shunned the warmed over 747. Will they do the same with the 777? I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

-Dave

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-30 09:52:33 and read 20765 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 63):
They will need something to fill the gap between A350-1000s and A380s capacity-wise.

How much bigger do you think the 777-9X will be vs the 351 in SQ configuration? There should only be about 2m difference in length and if SQ sticks with 3-3-3 Y and 1-2-1 F and J then there will not be any additional seats per row. Maybe one row of Y and one row of J so 13 additional seats? The RASM would not be enough to cover the added costs.

Now if they were willing to go 10 abreast in Y and then making a very nice E+ at 9Y maybe that could work otherwise I do not see them ordering the 77X.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-05-30 11:15:49 and read 18987 times.

Confirmed by Airbus, but wording doesn't sound like a firm order yet.

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-to-order-up-to-50-more-a350-xwbs/

Quote:
Singapore Airlines (SIA) has announced that it will purchase up to 50 more A350 XWB aircraft. The agreement covers a firm order for 30 more A350-900s plus options for a further 20 aircraft. The deal allows for the airline to select either the baseline A350-900 or the larger A350-1000 when exercising the options.

The latest agreement will represent the third order from Singapore Airlines for the A350 XWB. Upon confirmation, it will see the airline’s total firm orders for the all-new aircraft increase to 70, excluding options. The aircraft will be used by the airline on both medium and long haul routes.

Despite the use of the words "firm order", the use of "will purchase", "will represent" suggests it's not actually booked by Airbus yet.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: ODwyerPW
Posted 2013-05-30 11:27:42 and read 18742 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 67):
Despite the use of the words "firm order", the use of "will purchase", "will represent" suggests it's not actually booked by Airbus yet.

Probably. So they'll just announce it as totally firm at Paris.

Awesome news for both programs. Pretty neat to see both manufacturers offering so much new and/or improved metal at the same time.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: SASMD82
Posted 2013-05-30 11:48:01 and read 18212 times.

Congratz of course to both Airbus and Boeing with these lovely orders.

Ordering a plane that is not flying is a bit as taking a sort of risk. Ordering planes that are not even under development is like playing Russian Roulette though. But of course we may expect Boeing to announce the 787-10 during the Paris Air Show.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: flyingcello
Posted 2013-05-30 12:05:20 and read 17842 times.

I've only been skimming through this thread, but I haven't seen any mention of the 787-9 order that SIA have had on the books since 2006. With today's announcement, it looks like they will have 50 787s alongside the A350s...quite a fleet!

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-05-30 12:07:24 and read 17840 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 67):
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-to-order-up-to-50-more-a350-xwbs/

In this Press release from Airbus is still an old computer rendering of the Year 2009.
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1153432800_A350-900_SINGAPORE_AIRLINES.jpg

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-05-30 12:07:41 and read 17857 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 67):
Despite the use of the words "firm order", the use of "will purchase", "will represent" suggests it's not actually booked by Airbus yet.

I agree.
Airbus says it kind of (un)clearly in this quote:
"Upon confirmation, it will see the airline’s total firm orders for the all-new aircraft increase to 70, excluding option"

Why not call a spade for a spade?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-05-30 12:27:21 and read 17511 times.

Quoting flyingcello (Reply 70):
I've only been skimming through this thread, but I haven't seen any mention of the 787-9 order that SIA have had on the books since 2006. With today's announcement, it looks like they will have 50 787s alongside the A350s...quite a fleet!

The 20 787-9s ordered a few years back have been taken over by Scoot, SQ's low cost subsidiary. Whether they will take over the order for -10s, I don't know. I suspect that the plan is that the A350 options will be taken as -1000s, so SQ will operate A350s and TZ will operate 787s ... though I'd love to see SQ operate 787s at some stage.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-05-30 12:57:55 and read 16859 times.

Just because SIA was the first to order the the 787-10, does not mean that they will be the launch customer.

ANA ordered their 17 787-9's a whole month before Air New Zealand ordered their first two but they are not the launch customer.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2013-05-30 14:02:25 and read 15594 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 21):
Also interesting is the speculated list price of the larger 787:

Quote:SIA announcement gives first rough indication of 10X pricing: backing out A359 from $17bln deal implies at least $312m, 28% premium to 789

> 787-8: $206.8m
> 787-9: $243.6m
> 787-10X: $312m

   Percentage wise, the -10 will be far more expensive relative to the -9 than the latter to the -8. And that while the -10 seems to be a 'simple' stretch and the -9 is far more than that. I can see why Richard Anderson says the price of the 787 has to come down first before DL will prefer it to the A330-300.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 55):
It also shows that the A350-900 and 787-10 can be ordered side-by-side

It got me thinking, SQ, BA, AF/KL, and so many airlines not only buy both 787 and A350, but also order them at the same time. I think there is a trend here. LH next?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: ODwyerPW
Posted 2013-05-30 14:44:09 and read 14898 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 75):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 21):Also interesting is the speculated list price of the larger 787:

Quote:SIA announcement gives first rough indication of 10X pricing: backing out A359 from $17bln deal implies at least $312m, 28% premium to 789

> 787-8: $206.8m
> 787-9: $243.6m
> 787-10X: $312m
Percentage wise, the -10 will be far more expensive relative to the -9 than the latter to the -8. And that while the -10 seems to be a 'simple' stretch and the -9 is far more than that. I can see why Richard Anderson says the price of the 787 has to come down first before DL will prefer it to the A330-300.

I haven't been able to find that price estimate for the 787-10X... that puts it as high as the 777-300ER.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: mffoda
Posted 2013-05-30 15:23:33 and read 14296 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 75):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 21):
Also interesting is the speculated list price of the larger 787:

Quote:SIA announcement gives first rough indication of 10X pricing: backing out A359 from $17bln deal implies at least $312m, 28% premium to 789

> 787-8: $206.8m
> 787-9: $243.6m
> 787-10X: $312m

   Percentage wise, the -10 will be far more expensive relative to the -9 than the latter to the -8. And that while the -10 seems to be a 'simple' stretch and the -9 is far more than that. I can see why Richard Anderson says the price of the 787 has to come down first before DL will prefer it to the A330-300.
Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 76):
I haven't been able to find that price estimate for the 787-10X... that puts it as high as the 777-300ER.

I don't where these numbers come form as well??? Does anyone have a link or statement to support this?

The way I see it... $17 Billion total = 30 x A359 (277.7m) = $8,331B... Out of the $17B, Plus the remainder $8,669?

That would be $8,669B / 30 787-10 = $288.96M per 787-10? Maybe I'm wrong... But I don't understand the numbers being thrown around here? (List prices anyway)...   

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-30 15:45:08 and read 13951 times.

Quoting mffoda (Reply 77):

I think this is coming from the following tweet from Reuters Aero:

https://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/340075850445762563

$288.9 Million would make more sense.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-05-30 16:03:58 and read 13905 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 74):
ANA ordered their 17 787-9's a whole month before Air New Zealand ordered their first two but they are not the launch customer.

What is your source for that information? The first carrier to place a firm order is normally considered the launch customer. They may not necessarily be the first operator.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Bluebird191
Posted 2013-05-30 17:17:33 and read 13058 times.

Could this mean the A350-900 will fly for SQ and replace the fleet of A330's and 777-200's while providing a potentially cheaper lease cost for Scoot to fly the 787-10? Scoot already has the 787-8 and 787-9 on order through SQ, so the larger -10 would be a better fit into their fleet than into SQ's, and would provide the extra flexibility to be able to right size an aircraft for a particular route.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-05-30 17:24:22 and read 13007 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 59):
I think there's a good chance these 787s are destined for Scoot.

Makes sense, It should have similar capacity to their 777-200ERs with much better economics.eed bigger regional planes.



Quoting trex8 (Reply 62):
How well is Scoot doing that they will need so many planes? Silkair wasn't exactly a massive hit for years though I know the Scoot model is different. And isn't Scoot supposed to be "protecting" SQ groups market share by stopping people going to Air Asia etc Seems all these orders indicate they see SQ needing the same capacity as presently while Scoot is going to be pretty big too. How realistic is this?

LCCs are where the growth is in Asia, so stands to reason Scoot will eventually be as big or bigger than SQ mainline. The 787-10 will be a very effective weapon for regional operations thanks to it's large capacity (which will mean low CASM).



Quoting flyingcello (Reply 70):
I've only been skimming through this thread, but I haven't seen any mention of the 787-9 order that SIA have had on the books since 2006. With today's announcement, it looks like they will have 50 787s alongside the A350s...quite a fleet!

Those were all transferred to Scoot. Looks like SQ will fly the A350-900 / A350-1000 and Scoot will be 787-9 and 787-10.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: lutfi
Posted 2013-05-30 17:45:54 and read 12733 times.

So, will SQ operate the 787 in 8 or 9 abreast in EY?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-05-30 17:47:55 and read 12742 times.

Quoting lutfi (Reply 82):
So, will SQ operate the 787 in 8 or 9 abreast in EY?

The A350 will be 9-abreast Economy on SQ mainline.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: TreeHillRavens
Posted 2013-05-30 19:23:54 and read 11739 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 81):
Scoot will be 787-9 and 787-10.

Not sure about the 787-10 but Scoot will definitely be operating the 787-8 as 10 of the 20 original order for 787-9 were converted to the smaller 787 last year.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: cheeken
Posted 2013-05-30 19:30:43 and read 11630 times.

If SQ decides to fit 8 across in the 787-10X, it sounds like a good A330-300 replacement to me!

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: columba
Posted 2013-05-30 22:15:12 and read 10264 times.

Quoting cheeken (Reply 85):
If SQ decides to fit 8 across in the 787-10X, it sounds like a good A330-300 replacement to me!

It most definitely is. It will be a nice fliip: 787 to replace A330s and A350s to replace 777s  

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-05-31 00:33:44 and read 9036 times.

I wonder what discount SQ is getting from Boeing with this pre Le Bourget endorsement of this fab new B-jet. Couldn't be much better for Boeing, going into this major air-show, with the Bluechip endorsement of Singapore; what better way to encourage those borderline airlines to commit than with the confidence of knowing you're in good company.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-31 01:02:42 and read 8761 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 65):
Despite the use of the words "firm order", the use of "will purchase", "will represent" suggests it's not actually booked by Airbus yet.

We will find out next week, when Airbus updates its order list.

Quoting lutfi (Reply 80):
So, will SQ operate the 787 in 8 or 9 abreast in EY?

I assume 9 abreast.

Quoting mffoda (Reply 75):
I don't where these numbers come form as well??? Does anyone have a link or statement to support this?

It was reported by Reuters.

Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 74):
that puts it as high as the 777-300ER.

And also $25 million higher than the A359, It makes no sense indeed.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 76):
$288.9 Million would make more sense.

  

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2013-05-31 01:21:09 and read 8579 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 85):
I wonder what discount SQ is getting from Boeing with this pre Le Bourget endorsement of this fab new B-jet. Couldn't be much better for Boeing, going into this major air-show, with the Bluechip endorsement of Singapore; what better way to encourage those borderline airlines to commit than with the confidence of knowing you're in good company.

But this endorsement does not include the 777-X. Is that order still to come from SQ, or has SQ decided to pass on that one? The Boeing Board made the decision to offer the 787-10 and the 777X at the same time and the 777X would surely have been shown to SQ. Can SQ use an aircraft of the size of a 777-9, assuming that it takes the options for A350-1000s?. Does SQ need more information about the 777X, or is the 777X an aircraft that will appeal to airlines based in the Gulf, but not so much to other airlines?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-31 02:15:04 and read 8117 times.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 87):
But this endorsement does not include the 777-X. Is that order still to come from SQ, or has SQ decided to pass on that one?

The 777X will be launched later this year, not during the Paris airshow IMO.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 87):
The Boeing Board made the decision to offer the 787-10 and the 777X at the same time

Not at the same time. The 787-10X ATO was in October last year while the 777X ATO was in April this year.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 72):
Just because SIA was the first to order the the 787-10, does not mean that they will be the launch customer.

Sure, it's pure speculation at this point.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: flood
Posted 2013-05-31 02:33:29 and read 7904 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 74):
ANA ordered their 17 787-9's a whole month before Air New Zealand ordered their first two but they are not the launch customer.

The 17 frames you're referring to were originally orders for 783/788s. ANA didn't have any 789s on order until they converted 15 788s to 789s in 2010, whereas Air NZ converted their four 788s to 789s in May 2006.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-05-31 03:02:24 and read 7701 times.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 22):
I'm sure SQ will also take a good look at the 777X, and who knows, perhaps order them to fill the gap between A350 and A380 if necessary.

Can you please share your knowledge with QF and their top executives!

Congratulations Boeing, Airbus & SQ!  

EK413

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2013-05-31 08:08:41 and read 6714 times.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 87):
But this endorsement does not include the 777-X. Is that order still to come from SQ, or has SQ decided to pass on that one? The Boeing Board made the decision to offer the 787-10 and the 777X at the same time and the 777X would surely have been shown to SQ. Can SQ use an aircraft of the size of a 777-9, assuming that it takes the options for A350-1000s?. Does SQ need more information about the 777X, or is the 777X an aircraft that will appeal to airlines based in the Gulf, but not so much to other airlines?

I don't think the 777X will arrive at SQ. 70 A350s + 20 options is effectively their whole long haul fleet. And if they stay 9 abreast on the 777X, they will not gain anything on the A350-1000. 10-abreast is a problem because it will result in a different product while they do their best to keep the product consistent across their fleet.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 90):
Can you please share your knowledge with QF and their top executives!

Tim Clark indicates in his recent interview that EK and QF will order the 777X together...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjHePahW7Os

The comment is at about 15:20

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: columba
Posted 2013-05-31 08:54:39 and read 6494 times.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 91):
Tim Clark indicates in his recent interview that EK and QF will order the 777X together...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjHePahW7Os

The comment is at about 15:20

....and start an alliance with Lufthansa  

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-05-31 11:05:16 and read 6069 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 85):
wonder what discount SQ is getting from Boeing with this pre Le Bourget endorsement of this fab new B-jet. Couldn't be much better for Boeing, going into this major air-show, with the Bluechip endorsement of Singapore; what better way to encourage those borderline airlines to commit than with the confidence of knowing you're in good company.

Perhaps, but it would also seem like a great way to get out in front of the barrage of orders at Paris.

-Dave

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2013-05-31 11:21:36 and read 6039 times.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 91):
I don't think the 777X will arrive at SQ. 70 A350s + 20 options is effectively their whole long haul fleet. And if they stay 9 abreast on the 777X, they will not gain anything on the A350-1000. 10-abreast is a problem because it will result in a different product while they do their best to keep the product consistent across their fleet.

I've flown their 9 abreast 777's and that is a very good product, with service and comfort good enough that I never bothered with upgrading. If they don't want to go 10 wide, (though that is what they have in their 744's), their best value will be the 350.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-05-31 11:49:40 and read 5904 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 94):
though that is what they have in their 744's

Those seats on the 744 were wider.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-05-31 11:52:47 and read 5914 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 94):
though that is what they have in their 744's

Unfortunately that should be 'had' not 'have'   .

tortugamon

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-05-31 12:28:49 and read 5820 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77):

Straight from Boeing's order book page, however see below

Quoting flood (Reply 89):

As I was searching to confirm this, I also found that Air New Zealand also converted their four 787-8's to 787-9's to form the launch order. They never did this until May 12th 2006, after multiple other airlines had already ordered the plane as well ( based off the Boeing site).

The point i was trying to make is that the first airline to order is not automatically the "launch customer".

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-06-07 04:21:59 and read 4331 times.

Flightglobal reports that SQ goes for the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 on their 787-10X aircraft.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: USAF336TFS
Posted 2013-06-07 04:27:18 and read 4315 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 98):
Flightglobal reports that SQ goes for the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 on their 787-10X aircraft.

I'm disappointed to hear that, if that is confirmed. Would have liked to see the GEs as the prototype powerplants, especially considering that they are the market leaders in the 787 engine arena.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-06-07 04:30:31 and read 4273 times.

Well the A350 will have RR engines so it makes sense to have all the new aircraft equipped with engines from the same manufacturer. AF will likely do the same.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: PM
Posted 2013-06-07 04:48:14 and read 4181 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 98):
Flightglobal reports that SQ goes for the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 on their 787-10X aircraft.
Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 99):
I'm disappointed to hear that

I'm not!       

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 99):
if that is confirmed

How's this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ce-engines-for-boeing-787-10x.html

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-06-07 04:57:45 and read 4186 times.

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 99):
especially considering that they are the market leaders in the 787 engine arena.

   That sounds like marketing talk.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2013-06-07 05:13:45 and read 4085 times.

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 99):
I'm disappointed to hear that, if that is confirmed. Would have liked to see the GEs as the prototype powerplants, especially considering that they are the market leaders in the 787 engine arena.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 100):
Well the A350 will have RR engines so it makes sense to have all the new aircraft equipped with engines from the same manufacturer. AF will likely do the same.

First, SQ is a loyal RR customer. The bulk of their fleet is RR with the exception of the 77W.
Second and much more important: the Trent 1000 for the 787 is manufactured in Singapore. RR is pumping a fortune in Singapore and the Singapore Government is subsidising this facility a lot. If SQ would buy GE for the 787 all hell would break loose...

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: PM
Posted 2013-06-07 05:15:58 and read 4079 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 102):
That sounds like marketing talk.

Well, the GEnx does have the larger market share.

...so far!   

Meanwhile, SQ become the second airline to order all of the T500, T700, T800, T900, T1000 and TXWB. Jolly good!   

I might also toss in that RR have opened a manufacturing plant in Singapore and builds Trents there.

http://www.rolls-royce.com/singapore/sg/news/121128_trent_aero.jsp

That can't hurt.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: USAF336TFS
Posted 2013-06-07 05:21:05 and read 4044 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 102):
That sounds like marketing talk.

I don't work for GE, nor am I a stockholder, however I am a Boeing stockholder. It's simply a matter of preference.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 100):
Well the A350 will have RR engines so it makes sense to have all the new aircraft equipped with engines from the same manufacturer. AF will likely do the same.

And that does make sense!

Quoting PM (Reply 101):
I'm not!

How did I know that? 

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: JerseyFlyer
Posted 2013-06-07 05:46:46 and read 3936 times.

Has an engine selection for the initial 30 SIA (now Scoot) 788/9s been announced?

I thought not, so it is interesting that it is not announced concurrently with engine selection for the -10s.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: JerseyFlyer
Posted 2013-06-07 06:30:33 and read 3771 times.

This answers my own question:

"The airline says it has opted for the Rolls-Royce powerplant, and has also chosen the Trent 1000 to power 20 other 787s which will be delivered to its spin-off operation Scoot from 2014.

Singapore Airlines ordered 20 787-9s in 2006, before transferring the order to Scoot. Half of these -9s have been converted to the smaller -8.

Although the Scoot aircraft will start arriving before the 1000-TEN enters service, a source familiar with the agreement indicates that some of the airline's 787s will have the new Package-C version of the Trent 1000, due to be available in 2014, while others could be fitted with the 1000-TEN."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-for-trent-1000-on-50-787s-386843/

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-06-07 06:37:23 and read 3736 times.

I'm guessing Package-C for the 787-8s and then TENs for the -9 and -10.

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-06-08 06:25:53 and read 2956 times.

Quoting PM (Reply 101):
I'm not!

Me neither.  .

Quoting PM (Reply 104):
Meanwhile, SQ become the second airline to order all of the T500, T700, T800, T900, T1000 and TXWB. Jolly good!  

Which airline was the first?

Topic: RE: SIA Orders 30x 787-10X & 30x A359 + Options
Username: neutrino
Posted 2013-06-08 08:01:33 and read 2709 times.

Quoting PM (Reply 101):
I'm not!       

Understatement of the month!   

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 109):
Which airline was the first?

Thai? (wild guess)


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