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Topic: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-06-10 05:21:40 and read 10090 times.

Royal Air Maroc will be another African carrier flying to the Sao Paulo GRU airport effective December 20, 2013.
(source: GDS)

Schedule as follows, now open for reservations

AT215 CMN 1230 GRU 2025 B763 --3-5--
AT214 GRU 2155 CMN 0855 (+1) B763 --3-5--

AT215 CMN 2140 GRU 0535 (+1) B763 1------
AT214 GRU 0705 CMN 1805 B763 -2-----

The flight will operate in a 3x weekly mix schedule (2x weekly daylight, 1x weekly redeye) with quick turnaround (7 AM departure to Africa/Europe is something new) probably because of how hard is to get slots at GRU nowadays.
Better schedule expected by Winter 2014/2015 when GRU's terminal 3 will be available.

Their Boeing 767-300ER sits 12J 224Y in a leisure configuration.
http://www.royalairmaroc.com/Marchand/Us/index.jsp?rub=1750&rubid=4430

Will be the 4th African airline flying to Sao Paulo, 2 more expected soon.
Good to see some links between Africa and South America !

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: TYCOON
Posted 2013-06-10 05:52:07 and read 9969 times.

Isn't this a return for RAM to Brazil? I think I vaguely remember them having flights with a B707 in the 70s or 80s.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: DexSwart
Posted 2013-06-10 05:53:33 and read 9972 times.

Great news! But ouch, any medium or long haul flight with AT is painful. Especially in economy! I'm assuming thi'll be in a bid to gain O&D passengers?


DT, SA, AT and ET are the only African airlines flying to South America, so any news is good news! (Well, ET will be flying there soon...)

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-06-10 06:28:03 and read 9792 times.

I believe I read another thread on here saying Royal Air Moroc is in the list of the 20 worst airlines in economy. Is Biz equally bad? That's too bad if true. I believe VARIG flew to Morocco (?) or am I confusing it with another West African country. But the more tails popping up at GRU the better! Congrats to both countries.

What industry will help support this route? (besides tourism). I know this is somewhat unrelated, but after a recent tele novella there is a Brazilian trend to visit Turkey and other exotic locations, does Turkish fly to Brazil? This Royal Air Moroc flight may be very attractive to adventurous Brazilians, and TAM certainly won't get them to Morocco non-stop.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-06-10 06:42:51 and read 9699 times.

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 1):
Isn't this a return for RAM to Brazil? I think I vaguely remember them having flights with a B707 in the 70s or 80s.

It is a return indeed. They flew CMN-GIG back in the 80's

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 2):
Great news! But ouch, any medium or long haul flight with AT is painful. Especially in economy! I'm assuming thi'll be in a bid to gain O&D passengers?

My own view... they are late to the party. Now with the Brazilian Real not so strong they will have a hard time to fill their flights with leisure travelers. But we never know the nature of each one desires and we may see a lot of demand for this service as well as the stimulation caused by a non-stop.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
I know this is somewhat unrelated, but after a recent tele novella there is a Brazilian trend to visit Turkey and other exotic locations, does Turkish fly to Brazil?

TK flies currently 4x weekly IST-GRU-EZE, next month to become daily with A343.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-10 06:50:10 and read 9663 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
My own view... they are late to the party.

I think they have some potential even with Brazil in a slowdown, as the West AfricaBrazil market is largely untapped. AT will be the best routing by far, ET/KP won't have anywhere near the same scope, and it is a pretty decent market altogether.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: TYCOON
Posted 2013-06-10 07:06:55 and read 9596 times.

At the time, I think that RAM was looking at the Brazil-Arab market via transit in CMN. Brazil has one of the largest Arab populations outside the Middle East (although in Brazil they often call them "turcos" - Turks). I think I even remember very briefly Iraqi Airways also having flights to Brazil in the 80s.
Varig used to have flights to Lagos (and maybe even Accra or Abidjan, not sure). Air France had routings to Brazil via Dakar (including the Concorde flights to Rio).
Wasn't Kenya Airways rumoured to consider starting flights to Brazil? And what about LAM (do they even have an aircraft that can do it)? Given they increasing investment of Brazilian firms in Africa, and particularly Mozambique and Angola for cultural/linguistic reasons, would make sense for direct or a tag-on flight to Maputo.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-06-10 07:46:20 and read 9429 times.

Great news for AT and its customers.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
may be very attractive to adventurous Brazilians

Perhaps not so adventurous. Maybe they should do some placement in Telenovellas and market the place as it is a fantastic destination.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
as the West AfricaBrazil market is largely untapped

Not sure of the market size, behramjee to the rescue with some data  
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
AT will be the best routing by far, ET/KP won't have anywhere near the same scope, and it is a pretty decent market altogether.

Really? Going from Brazil to West Africa is best to go via CMN? Or am I misunderstanding? Also, Arik is planning to fly there shortly so there may be another alternative from West Africa.

Brazil is the least active country amongst the BRICs in Africa, perhaps that will change soon.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-06-10 07:52:41 and read 9398 times.

It's AT return to Brazil, it flew to GIG.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 2):
DT, SA, AT and ET are the only African airlines flying to South America, so any news is good news!

To GRU that's. TACV Cabo Verde flies to FOR.
Have no figures for the current Moroccan-Brazilian community, but there was a Moroccan migration to the Amazon (Manaus, Belem) during the Rubber-days.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-10 08:03:59 and read 9364 times.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 7):
Not sure of the market size,

It's not huge yet, but it's also underserved, and mixed with local/Morocco/EU traffic it could grow quickly. I'm slightly optimisitc for this route.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 7):
Really? Going from Brazil to West Africa is best to go via CMN? Or am I misunderstanding? Also, Arik is planning to fly there shortly so there may be another alternative from West Africa.

Of the forthcoming routings? Yeah I think AT has the most robust network. I'd bet a dollar Arik never shows up in GRU.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-06-10 09:51:07 and read 9125 times.

MEA might return too with seasonal service.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: AwysBSB
Posted 2013-06-10 11:23:36 and read 8856 times.

I wonder why every Arabian carrier sees only GRU as a destination in South America.
Despite QR's interest for a third Brazilian destination and TK's aircraft downgrade, AT, AH, ME and RJ do not revise their plans.
Several reasons could have made BSB be the actual destination for that announced route of AT:

  • BSB is provided with a huge domestic connectivity and is increasing links with Latin America;
  • TP is currently the only transatlantic carrier serving nonstop BSB;
  • There is a significant government traffic between BSB and African and Arabian countries, like Morocco;
  • It has a mature leisure traffic to exotic destinations.

Taking into account that AT's schedule to GRU is to be improved, they still have the opportunity to add BSB the same way ET added GIG.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: bsbisland
Posted 2013-06-10 11:53:46 and read 8768 times.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 11):

BSB-CMN? You are kidding, right?

All Arabian carriers only see GRU? I believe you lost the news of them flying to EZE or GIG, and differently from those two destinations, BSB does not have any market for any Arab carriers.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: cedars747
Posted 2013-06-10 12:35:19 and read 8632 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 10):
MEA might return too with seasonal service.

Do you think that ME is able to compete with TK,ET,EK,QR and now AT?
An example:

Trip Summary
Return Trip
DepartBeirut (BEY)to Sao Paulo (GRU)
Thu, 19 Sep 2013
ReturnSao Paulo (GRU)to Beirut (BEY)
Mon, 30 Sep 2013
Total : 1,063.13 USD Total price for one passenger

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-06-10 13:11:40 and read 8511 times.

Quoting cedars747 (Reply 13):

A Lebanese poster stated that govt. is being pressured to start this service just as they did Yerevan.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: cedars747
Posted 2013-06-10 13:24:49 and read 8457 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 14):
A Lebanese poster stated that govt. is being pressured to start this service just as they did Yerevan

Probably ! I hope so, like they did before BEY-ABJ-GRU

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: capri
Posted 2013-06-10 13:25:37 and read 8455 times.

AT is in a lot of trouble lately, was surprised to see this GRU schedule, they have bad and drained out 767's and delayed 787's unless they got something lined up for a lease like a 777, they are facing an open strike by pilots starting 16 June, after over 1 year of storage finally they managed to sell its 4 A321 to S7 which went under radar in local media, also the government was trying to privatize the company but no taker as the company established a bad reputation for poor customer service especially from Moroccan citizens who are deserting the carrier rather than foreign travellers who occasionally fly the airline

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-06-10 14:28:19 and read 8304 times.

Well I guess many can enjoy cheap fares from Brazil to Europe via CMN. Unfortunately AT wont be doing much except carrying bottom class of market.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 11):
TK's aircraft downgrade

They switch from 777 to A340, but they increase frequency to daily. At end they are growing with more capacity.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-06-10 17:00:05 and read 7829 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
It's AT return to Brazil, it flew to GIG.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vito Cedrini
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vito Cedrini

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
I believe VARIG flew to Morocco (?) or am I confusing it with another West African country.

Varig never served Morocco. They served the following countries in Africa at various times:

Angola
Cape Vede
Ivory Coast
Liberia
Mozambique
Nigeria
South Africa

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-06-10 17:11:58 and read 7777 times.

Quoting bsbisland (Reply 12):
BSB does not have any market for any Arab carriers.

If EK wants to fly to SCL, it'll have to stop somewhere so BSB, CNF, SSA could be candidates, granted that the major market won't be in the Brazilian cities where EK stops but in SCL.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 17):
Well I guess many can enjoy cheap fares from Brazil to Europe via CMN. Unfortunately AT wont be doing much except carrying bottom class of market.

Sort of what CA is doing on MAD-GRU.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: rgr8apples
Posted 2013-06-10 18:25:19 and read 7417 times.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 2):
Great news! But ouch, any medium or long haul flight with AT is painful. Especially in economy!

I recently flew CMN to JFK and I was absolutely dreading the flight. I had flown LHR - CMN - RAK prior and it wasn't very nice.
To my surprise the cabin in the 763 had just recently been completely updated with tvs (and I believe USB outlets?) on every seat back. Leg room, food, and service still left much to desire but all things considered it was MUCH better than I had expected.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: Coal
Posted 2013-06-10 18:57:39 and read 7210 times.

I flew AT ORY-RAK-ORY back in February and it was fine. The 738 was brand new, the service was good, and the food was adequate.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: curiousflyer
Posted 2013-06-10 19:14:48 and read 7117 times.

I flew ORY-RAK-ORY back in December and it was OK.

Decent food for Y, good wine, basic service on board. On the ground though, bad from A to Z, staff not nice and messy process.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: DexSwart
Posted 2013-06-11 00:11:31 and read 6113 times.

Quoting rgr8apples (Reply 20):
To my surprise the cabin in the 763 had just recently been completely updated with tvs (and I believe USB outlets?) on every seat back. Leg room, food, and service still left much to desire but all things considered it was MUCH better than I had expected.

Excellent to hear! AT seems to lag behind. Sometimes so far they even forget to update their own website! Haha
Last time I flew them, I was six and that was between Zurich and Marakesh, I believe. All I remember is a cabin that reeked of cigarettes and a crappy old projector way up the front.

That said, it's nice to know other airlines you honestly almost never hear about update their products.
Any photos to share? I can't find any of the new cabin on the database.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: C010T3
Posted 2013-06-11 04:07:29 and read 5231 times.

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 6):
Brazil has one of the largest Arab populations outside the Middle East

Yes, Christian Arab, mostly with all ties severed to the origin countries.

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 6):
(although in Brazil they often call them "turcos" - Turks)

Just in São Paulo, but that has an explanation. When the Lebanese and Syrian started to arrive, they were Ottoman nationals.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-11 04:12:57 and read 5332 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 24):
Quoting TYCOON (Reply 6): Brazil has one of the largest Arab populations outside the Middle East
Yes, Christian Arab, mostly with all ties severed to the origin countries.

Brazil-Middle East is so overserved at this point that I don't think AT should even bother with those markets, and instead focus on West Africa-Brazil, and filling the rest with smaller European points.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-11 04:57:32 and read 5137 times.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 7):
Really? Going from Brazil to West Africa is best to go via CMN? Or am I misunderstanding? Also, Arik is planning to fly there shortly so there may be another alternative from West Africa.

It's better than the alternative which is to go via Europe   I don't see then taking much of the connecting traffic to/from Europe. Morocco is a great leisure destination so in my view this will be primarily a O&D flight. There are so many better options to fly between Europe and Brazil.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2013-06-11 05:34:17 and read 4999 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 16):
AT is in a lot of trouble lately, was surprised to see this GRU schedule, they have bad and drained out 767's and delayed 787's unless they got something lined up for a lease like a 777, they are facing an open strike by pilots starting 16 June, after over 1 year of storage finally they managed to sell its 4 A321 to S7 which went under radar in local media, also the government was trying to privatize the company but no taker as the company established a bad reputation for poor customer service especially from Moroccan citizens who are deserting the carrier rather than foreign travellers who occasionally fly the airline

Indeed, I was about to ask: what's up with their 787s ? They've been painted, stored and parked in PAE for a long time now ? Haven't they ?

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: capri
Posted 2013-06-11 05:59:13 and read 4938 times.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 27):

They are the old builds 17 & 19, they will be reworked, but unconfirmed news that AT will get a new line nbr and new builds, not sure though, and we don't even know what compensation did they get from Boeing, because in Morocco very hard to get a decent information and parliament bailed out the airline numerous times and they are furious about it and they asked CEO to show up for questioning many times but to no avail, let me tell you it's really bad what goes on at RAM to the point people and even workers wish it goes bankrupt

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: AF022
Posted 2013-06-11 06:48:46 and read 4829 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
I think they have some potential even with Brazil in a slowdown, as the West AfricaBrazil market is largely untapped. AT will be the best routing by far, ET/KP won't have anywhere near the same scope, and it is a pretty decent market altogether.

Sorry but I don't think you know what you are talking about. AT uses its aircraft during the day to Europe and at night to Africa. Africa won't connect.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
AT215 CMN 1230 GRU 2025 B763 --3-5--
AT214 GRU 2155 CMN 0855 (+1) B763 --3-5--

AT215 CMN 2140 GRU 0535 (+1) B763 1------
AT214 GRU 0705 CMN 1805 B763 -2-----

Flight will arrive CMN at 0855 2x weekly, on 3 and 5. AT's first departure on 3 to sub-Saharan Africa appears to be AT287 at 1930 to FIH.

AT may have a few more destinations in West Africa than ASKY, but if the destinations don't connect then it doesn't matter if they fly to LOS or not. The flights won't connect.

AT is surely trying to tap into Brazil-Europe traffic, probably scraping the bottom of the yield traffic with their sub-standard product.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-11 07:13:23 and read 4785 times.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 29):
AT uses its aircraft during the day to Europe and at night to Africa. Africa won't connect.

Africa connects westbound on days 35, with a long sit on 1; eastbound it connects on day 2 (the daylight EB) with long sits on 35. It's not perfect but there's at least a tight connection one day/week in each direction, and longer sits on the other days. Not a bad start for a small but growing market.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 29):
AT's first departure on 3 to sub-Saharan Africa appears to be AT287 at 1930 to FIH.
Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
AT214 GRU 0705 CMN 1805 B763 -2-----

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: cedars747
Posted 2013-06-11 08:13:58 and read 4723 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Varig never served Morocco.

Vasp Viação Aérea São Paulo served Casablanca in the 90's

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: AF022
Posted 2013-06-11 10:09:40 and read 4598 times.

According to Amadeus at the end of Desember I see this:

GRULOS, by elapsed time:


10:15 ET via LFW, 3x weekly
18:45 AF via CDG, daily
18:45 KL via AMS, daily
18:55 AT via CMN, 1x weekly
19:40 BA via LHR, daily
19:40 IB via MAD, 4x weekly
21:05 SA via JNB, daily
23:15 AZ via MXP, 3x weekly


How can AT possibly be competitive in this market?

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-11 11:59:57 and read 4441 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Africa connects westbound on days 35, with a long sit on 1; eastbound it connects on day 2 (the daylight EB) with long sits on 35. It's not perfect but there's at least a tight connection one day/week in each direction, and longer sits on the other days. Not a bad start for a small but growing market.

You're forgeting that there is much more reputable airline with a hub a mere 300nm to the north (TP), and another one 500nm to the north (IB). TP serves 10 cities in Brazil, 3 cities in Morocco, plus Algiers, Accra, Bissau, Bamako, and Dakar. It's not as wide as RAM's coverage of West Africa but it's not too shaby either.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-06-11 18:24:22 and read 4197 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 28):
They are the old builds 17 & 19, they will be reworked, but unconfirmed news that AT will get a new line nbr and new builds, not sure though, and we don't even know what compensation did they get from Boeing, because in Morocco very hard to get a decent information and parliament bailed out the airline numerous times and they are furious about it and they asked CEO to show up for questioning many times but to no avail, let me tell you it's really bad what goes on at RAM to the point people and even workers wish it goes bankrupt

Wow, I was not aware. I read recently that the airline was back in the black (see: http://centreforaviation.com/news/ro...-best-ever-results-in-2012-232392) which was great news. I guess there is more to it than what the financials show...

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-11 23:43:53 and read 4041 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 33):
You're forgeting that there is much more reputable airline with a hub a mere 300nm to the north (TP), and another one 500nm to the north (IB).

Nope not forgetting them--CMN's capacity to Africa (excluding Morocco) is about the same as LIS/MAD combined, and LIS is biased toward longhaul flights and specifically to places that already have nonstops to Brazil, like LAD.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 32):
How can AT possibly be competitive in this market?

That's one market, a big one, where AT obviously isn't as competitive. But the CMN capacity to Africa (ex Morocco) is about 7 times bigger in ASKs than ET/KP at LFW, plus there isn't the silly GRU-GIG triangle routing either. I'd be far more concerned about filling the ET plane to Brazil than AT's.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: AF022
Posted 2013-06-12 02:49:03 and read 3966 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35):
But the CMN capacity to Africa (ex Morocco) is about 7 times bigger in ASKs than ET/KP at LFW,

I didn't know AT was that big. What stations in sub-Saharan Africa does AT fly to that ASKY doesn't?

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: capri
Posted 2013-06-12 04:23:34 and read 3878 times.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 34):
Wow, I was not aware. I read recently that the airline was back in the black (see: http://centreforaviation.com/news/ro...-best-ever-results-in-2012-232392) which was great news. I guess there is more to it than what the financials show...

because government pumped into it more money, who knows which budget they took it off it, we still in Morocco live in untransparent information and under table dealings

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-12 07:31:09 and read 3784 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35):
Nope not forgetting them--CMN's capacity to Africa (excluding Morocco) is about the same as LIS/MAD combined, and LIS is biased toward longhaul flights and specifically to places that already have nonstops to Brazil, like LAD.

Volume is not that relevant in this case. TP and IB fly to where it matters which are the big cities in West and North Africa. I don't see a lot of people flying between Yaoundé and GRU, or Cotonou and GRU  

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: peterinlisbon
Posted 2013-06-12 07:40:07 and read 3765 times.

Actually I think this is a great move. Brazil is one of the few countries in the world where Moroccans don't need visas. Morocco is also ideally placed to catch Europe-Brazil traffic as well as Middle East-Brazil and Brazil-Algeria/Libya/Tunisia/Egypt/Turkey with no backtracking and a pause half way through an otherwise very long flight. It would provide a new and shorter route for traffic between Brazil and West Africa.

Morocco is also a destination that is increasingly popular with south americans, so if they can manage a codeshare to Argentina/Uruguay/Chile I think they could do very well with inbound traffic as well.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-12 08:09:06 and read 3737 times.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 36):

I didn't know AT was that big. What stations in sub-Saharan Africa does AT fly to that ASKY doesn't?

ET/KP only have about 11 destinations out of LFW--not sure which connect to GRU/GIG but likely not all of them, and they're mostly DH4s and 73Gs, whereas AT has just under 30 (excluding Morocco), to just about every major capital in West Africa all the way down to FIH/BZV/LAD, primarily on 737s.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):

Volume is not that relevant in this case. TP and IB fly to where it matters which are the big cities in West and North Africa. I don't see a lot of people flying between Yaoundé and GRU, or Cotonou and GRU

IB has 8 destinations, to AT's 30+/-, excluding Morocco. There's probably about 1pdew between NSI and DLA and GRU these days, but the competition is minimal, fares are high, and this might be one of the few instances where split ticketing is relevant. With additional routings (ie AT) they could easily expand the market a bit.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: AF022
Posted 2013-06-12 10:53:01 and read 3626 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 40):
ET/KP only have about 11 destinations out of LFW--not sure which connect to GRU/GIG but likely not all of them, and they're mostly DH4s and 73Gs, whereas AT has just under 30 (excluding Morocco), to just about every major capital in West Africa all the way down to FIH/BZV/LAD, primarily on 737s.

I found this interesting as I didn't knew that much about RAM. So I did some looking and found that RAM serves 25 cities in sub-Sahara Africa. Of these, ASKY flies to all of them except LAD, NKC, OXB, RAI and SSG. ASKY served 23 cities in sub-Saharan Africa, including ABV and NDJ not served by RAM.

I still think ASKY has a great product between Brazil and West Africa, certainly better than RAM.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: soups
Posted 2013-06-12 12:06:50 and read 3573 times.

I recall Iraq airways flying Baghdad-CMN-GIG a while back

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-12 23:12:09 and read 3346 times.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 41):
I found this interesting as I didn't knew that much about RAM. So I did some looking and found that RAM serves 25 cities in sub-Sahara Africa. Of these, ASKY flies to all of them except LAD, NKC, OXB, RAI and SSG. ASKY served 23 cities in sub-Saharan Africa, including ABV and NDJ not served by RAM.

AT really has built up an excellent network--now whether they can operate it in any decent way is a whole different story.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 41):
I still think ASKY has a great product between Brazil and West Africa, certainly better than RAM.

As in the inflight product? Just from a schedule point of view the Brazil flight looks like a challenge to be kind--a triangle routing, connecting to a tiny codeshare parther's hub, then onto ADD, at which point any beyond flying is pointless after so many stops and so much one stop competition.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: AF022
Posted 2013-06-13 04:29:01 and read 3250 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43):
As in the inflight product? Just from a schedule point of view the Brazil flight looks like a challenge to be kind--a triangle routing, connecting to a tiny codeshare parther's hub, then onto ADD, at which point any beyond flying is pointless after so many stops and so much one stop competition.

Between Brazil and Asia yes not a great product. But between Brazil and West Africa passengers don't have to go through ADD. It will change how people have to travel between Brazil and West Africa.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-13 04:48:48 and read 3227 times.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 44):

Between Brazil and Asia yes not a great product. But between Brazil and West Africa passengers don't have to go through ADD. It will change how people have to travel between Brazil and West Africa.

It's such a small schedule now in LFW though it has a lot of potential. Is the LFW transfer process nice? I've never gotten off the plane in LFW, but I've always had nice transfer experiences in ADD.

Topic: RE: Royal Air Maroc To Fly To Sao Paulo (confirmed)
Username: cedars747
Posted 2013-06-13 12:07:13 and read 3101 times.

Quoting soups (Reply 42):
I recall Iraq airways flying Baghdad-CMN-GIG a while back

Hei ya Soup !
I flew Iraqi Airways from Amman to Rio with one stop in Lisbon,it was in 1986 onboard B747
The routing was Baghdad-Amman-Lisbon-Rio


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