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Topic: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: LONGisland89
Posted 2013-06-12 13:04:57 and read 6341 times.

Thinking back to the very recent 'Will AA Step Up Their Competition At JFK?' thread, I don't think this is a step in the right direction. Service was just increased from daily 738 to 2x 738. The CRJs start August 27th. I can understand CRJs to JAX akin to what 9E has, but TPA? C'mon AA.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: BA0197
Posted 2013-06-12 13:24:06 and read 6224 times.

All the old people booking their tickets 10 months out for the winter in O class?

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-06-12 13:36:46 and read 6140 times.

WOW NYC to major Florida market on crj? I don't see how this can make money its pretty long flight on such low fares. Not cool.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2013-06-12 13:51:06 and read 6055 times.

It's very surprising that one of NYC's largest airlines would put CRJ's on such a dense route, especially when the competition is flying 738's/752's/320's.

Perhaps this route is specifically to feed international banks?

Might as well let B6 provide the feed; use those slots for more valuable markets.

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: CODC10
Posted 2013-06-12 14:01:14 and read 5991 times.

Is this a permanent change or just for the fall?

Leisure traffic from NYC-Florida falls off a cliff from mid-August through November when snowbird season begins again. Not terribly surprising, given AA's limited strength in the NYC-Florida market, that they choose to deploy more valuable assets (738s) elsewhere in the system.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: AJMIA
Posted 2013-06-12 14:16:21 and read 5899 times.

This will not last.
They will either need to upgrade the route back to mainline or cut it.

AJMIA

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2013-06-12 14:33:22 and read 5815 times.

There is some changing going pre-code share with US AIR ORD-TUS which has been 2x daily is going 1x daily I know USAIR has a bigger footprint at TPA I suspect there will be a lot of this going in the near future

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: MHTripple7
Posted 2013-06-12 14:35:13 and read 5808 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 3):

It's very surprising that one of NYC's largest airlines would put CRJ's on such a dense route, especially when the competition is flying 738's/752's/320's.
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 5):

This will not last.
They will either need to upgrade the route back to mainline or cut it.

Agree with both of you. Why would anyone take AA when they can fly B6 or DL on a much larger and comfortable plane? Not to mention that JetBlue codeshares with AA now.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: davescj
Posted 2013-06-12 14:50:02 and read 5726 times.

What does AA hope to do with JFK long term? That's got to be part of the equation. Perhaps this is a temporary thing while fleets and routes get sorted.

Dave

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-06-12 14:51:52 and read 5714 times.

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 7):
Not to mention that JetBlue codeshares with AA now.

They don't codeshare.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2013-06-12 14:59:26 and read 5673 times.

Why would anyone take AA because the people have no clue what cr7 320 or 738 is until they get stuck on it for 3 hrs. I know I wouldn't book AA over B6 or DL on this route being flown by a CR7...no matter what the cost is I rather take a 1 stop over a non stop cr 7 ....

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-06-12 15:48:58 and read 5504 times.

Quoting davescj (Reply 8):
Perhaps this is a temporary thing while fleets and routes get sorted.

That's what I was thinking as well. Perhaps we will see PMUS a319s on the route after the merger. I could see a lot of routes that US airplanes could do well on from JFK.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: brooklynchris13
Posted 2013-06-12 16:17:11 and read 5386 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 11):
That's what I was thinking as well. Perhaps we will see PMUS a319s on the route after the merger. I could see a lot of routes that US airplanes could do well on from JFK.

With the arrival of AA 319s, the Republic E-flying, and seasonal adjustments, I think its 100% right that everything is going to be in state of flux for awhile (and that doesn't even include the merger related changes that are sure to come). I fly this particular route often and its certainly a very up and down load depending on the season. I could see this being one of those routes that eventually ranges all the way from E175 to A321 depending on the season and demand and, rather than a sign of the zombie apocalypse a great example of a route that will be more profitable for an AA with improved fleet options, better costs, and (eventually) the merger with US.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: aajfksjubklyn
Posted 2013-06-12 16:43:54 and read 5281 times.

The Tampa flights are also holders during slot controlled times. Who cares what times. This is a corporate route shuttering business fliers. Primary one is PricewaterhouseCoopers who have major ops in NYC and TPA

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: aajfksjubklyn
Posted 2013-06-12 16:44:50 and read 5276 times.

I meant who cares what planes. Sorry

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: miaami
Posted 2013-06-12 16:59:35 and read 5197 times.

AA flys three CRJs between LAX and IAH against UA's multiple daily flights and does just fine. 2 from TPA to JFK during the off season is no big deal.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: davescj
Posted 2013-06-12 17:04:37 and read 5178 times.

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 13):
This is a corporate route shuttering business fliers. Primary one is PricewaterhouseCoopers who have major ops in NYC and TPA

I wondered who was the corporate supporter (or at least one of them).

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 14):
I meant who cares what planes. Sorry

People who fly VERY frequently (who want F and comfort). In addition, if a corporation is funding the flight, they want to be treated well.

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 13):
The Tampa flights are also holders during slot controlled times.

I did not think of this, but it makes sense.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: FSDan
Posted 2013-06-12 21:03:59 and read 4726 times.

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 13):
This is a corporate route shuttering business fliers. Primary one is PricewaterhouseCoopers who have major ops in NYC and TPA

Is PwC not in Manhattan? If so, LGA is more convenient and has a better schedule than AA out of JFK...

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: PIEAvantiP180
Posted 2013-06-12 21:33:48 and read 4649 times.

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 13):

Only the afternoon flight is in slot controlled times of the day at JFK. The morning flight does not need a slot. Plus the afternoon flight is needed for connectivity for the evening European push. I've taken this flight twice and from my observation most of the passengers were connecting onward to Europe and beyond and very few were ending their journey in NYC. AA will change guage of aircraft on this route but I don't see them dropping the route or the afternoon flight to use the slot for a different route, they need the feed for European routes just like UA and DL do because no matter how big the NYC o&d market is you still need connections to fill a portion of each flight.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-06-12 22:20:20 and read 4572 times.

This is rather startling, but still, I don't think AA is too focused on O&D from NYC to Florida, outside of MIA. There was a time when it was, from LGA, but that is long since past. (For that matter, so was US, once, and it cut those flights long ago, too.) It seems to me that AA's JFK-FLL/MCO/TPA service is largely for connections. Note that AA no longer serves these cities from LGA, which it probably would if it was very interested in O&D traffic. JFK-Florida is really owned by B6 and to a lesser extent DL.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: surfandsnow
Posted 2013-06-12 23:16:07 and read 4507 times.

Quoting LONGisland89 (Thread starter):
Thinking back to the very recent 'Will AA Step Up Their Competition At JFK?' thread, I don't think this is a step in the right direction.

At least they aren't cutting the route altogether, as they have with many other competitive leisure routes from NYC (from not just JFK, but also LGA). About 10 years ago, AA was flying all kinds of LGA-Florida and JFK-Caribbean flights. Now they have largely ceded those routes to B6 and DL, reallocating their scarce LGA slots to higher-yielding regional business markets (i.e. ATL, CLT, MSP) and reallocating their scarce JFK slots to higher-yielding long haul flights (i.e. BCN, GIG, MXP). If anything, be glad this route didn't go the way of AA's JFK-PHX, or JFK-SDQ, or...you get the idea.

Quoting LONGisland89 (Thread starter):
Service was just increased from daily 738 to 2x 738. The CRJs start August 27th.

So the downgauge happens right as the summer travel season comes to an end. Kids back in school, leisure travel demand tanks, no surprise here. Once New York starts to get cold/holiday season begins, demand will pick back up with all the snowbirds and tourists heading south. I'm sure this downgauge is only temporary and mainline will come back by mid-November. DL and UA have been downgauging their off-season Florida services too, AA is finally starting to follow suit.

Quoting LONGisland89 (Thread starter):
I can understand CRJs to JAX akin to what 9E has, but TPA? C'mon AA.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Florida's eastern coast is the domain of the East Coast crowd, while its western/Gulf coast predominantly caters to Midwesterners. There is a reason why almost all of PBI's service is to the Northeast, or why Midwestern airports like CAK and FNT host nonstops to TPA and RSW but not FLL. That's not to say there is no demand between NYC and Tampa. On the contrary, from TPA you have B6 and DL to LGA; AA, B6, and DL to JFK, B6 and UA to EWR, WN to ISP, and B6 to HPN. A lot of service fragmented between 5 airports and 5 airlines, and that's just the nonstops! Of those carriers, it's safe to say that AA is in by far the weakest position when it comes to the New York-Tampa market.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-06-12 23:21:54 and read 4497 times.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 18):
I've taken this flight twice and from my observation most of the passengers were connecting onward to Europe and beyond and very few were ending their journey in NYC.

If all goes according to plan, as of the end of August, many of these passengers will now have the option of connecting through PHL and CLT to Europe not too.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-06-13 05:56:44 and read 3504 times.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 18):
Only the afternoon flight is in slot controlled times of the day at JFK

JFK is slot controlled 6 am to 10 pm. This isn't your fathers JFK airport anymore. It is quite busy in the 7 am to 9am hour

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-06-13 06:12:00 and read 3423 times.

This just emphasis the fact that PHL is not going anywhere post merger, and ideas of moving the hub to JFK and building JFK up are pie in the sky. In my opinion JFK is going remain pretty flat for AA after the merger, perhaps some swapping out of aircraft (A330s for 763s) but in terms of the number of flights not much of a bump. They may add a handful of new International routes when the 787s arrive, but nothing that will really change any of the current dynamics of the market.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: planeguy727
Posted 2013-06-13 06:17:17 and read 3376 times.

I think this is a good sign. AA may be headed in the direction of knowing their strength and not trying to be all things to all people.

Look at the carriers that have been doing fairly well - specifically WN, B6, G4, NK. These airlines have established they are what they are and focused decisions on doing that well. They know not every pax is for them and why chase folks you likely won't catch (or won't catch more than once).

Quoting davescj (Reply 16):
People who fly VERY frequently (who want F and comfort).

Yes they want this, but if experience with airlines in the United States has told us anything even corporate travels aren't paying for it the way they once did. It might be painful to many of us with varying levels of elite status, but I do believe they days are coming where the only way to get a seat in F will be to pay for it.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-06-13 06:21:41 and read 3456 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 19):
It seems to me that AA's JFK-FLL/MCO/TPA service is largely for connections.

Yes. As others pointed out, the logical O&D for business passengers is LGA.

This is about connections (including UK-Florida, etc).

It is the least-bad solution compared to a half-full AA 738 or not having a flight, which would weaken AA at JFK further.

Admittedly, it is weird to see leisure runs on CR7 and, yes, it suggests that AA is making the best of a bad situation.

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-06-13 06:51:37 and read 3332 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 3):
It's very surprising that one of NYC's largest airlines would put CRJ's on such a dense route, especially when the competition is flying 738's/752's/320's.

Take a look at AA's EWR-ORD schedule.  

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2013-06-13 07:10:19 and read 3190 times.

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 13):
Primary one is PricewaterhouseCoopers who have major ops in NYC and TPA

But why would anyone trek from PwC (300 Madison Ave) to JFK when LGA is just a 15 minute cab ride away?

Quoting N62NA (Reply 26):
Take a look at AA's EWR-ORD schedule.

Ha - good point. But EWR-ORD is not a leisure route; NYC-TPA most certainly is (though there is some business traffic, obviously). Demand from NYC-Florida is virtually limitless, and fares are rather low. Throwing a high-cost CRJ on a low-yielding mostly-leisure route doesn't make terrible sense.

Again, it looks like this flight is scheduled to feed AA's European banks. But, given its interline agreement with B6 - which offers plenty of capacity on JFKTPA - why waste these two valuable slots?

That said -- we all may be jumping the gun here. If the CRJ's are just for the September/October trough, then this isn't a big deal. But keeping a CRJ on this route from November-April would be foolish.

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: AA JFK-TPA Goes To 2X CR7
Username: LONGisland89
Posted 2013-06-13 12:23:20 and read 2245 times.

Thanks for all your comments guys. The route does go back to a daily 738 in the winter.


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