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Topic: AA To Add More Seats
Username: NWAA330
Posted 2013-06-12 17:08:24 and read 15272 times.

Didn't see this posted anywhere:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...says-add-seats-many-221437165.html

"...airline officials expect to add seats on Boeing 737 and McDonnell Douglas MD-80 jets, "but we haven't yet determined the right number of seats, and as a result, the impact on revenue and cost."

Best,

NWAA330

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: apjung
Posted 2013-06-12 17:24:42 and read 15143 times.

ELRTC - Even Less Room Throughout Coach

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2013-06-12 17:25:43 and read 15146 times.

...never mind the impact on PASSENGERS...  

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: rotating14
Posted 2013-06-12 17:26:41 and read 15123 times.

But aren't they getting rid of the MD-80's? To invest money into a plane that you will soon retire makes zero sense to me. Or are they keeping them longer than planned?

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-06-12 17:33:10 and read 15031 times.

MD-80s will be around atleast another 5-years.

There were still some 191 tails by end of December.

Internal fleet list actually shows 35 tails still flying by end of 2019.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-06-12 17:33:38 and read 15040 times.

More on this story from the Dallas Morning News:

American Airlines to add seats to MD-80, Boeing 737 fleets

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: WROORD
Posted 2013-06-12 17:33:55 and read 15027 times.

They got the idea from US, their planes are pretty cramped. I guess all that talk about developing a new world class airline translates differently for the executives at AA.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: yyz717
Posted 2013-06-12 17:34:11 and read 15000 times.

Remember those ads "more room thru coach" with seats being thrown out of AA aircraft? They could run them backwards showing seats being thrown back in.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: cmb320
Posted 2013-06-12 17:35:16 and read 15001 times.

Maybe more seats in the M80 by removing the back galley as Delta did?

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: davescj
Posted 2013-06-12 17:36:02 and read 15002 times.

Quoting WROORD (Reply 6):
They got the idea from US, their planes are pretty cramped. I guess all that talk about developing a new world class airline translates differently for the executives at AA.

Seems like AA wants to be the next Spirit. So much for more leg room, better service...etc.

I do wonder how many pax (esp corporate, frequent fliers) may move to UA, DL over this (esp ORD based).

Dave

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2013-06-12 17:36:09 and read 14967 times.

The 737s were all recently retrofitted with 150 (really 152) seats with MCE, so they could be crewed with just three flight attendants. Will this action reverse those mods, or will there be subfleets of the different types maintained?

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: Aztrainer
Posted 2013-06-12 17:37:01 and read 14957 times.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 3):
But aren't they getting rid of the MD-80's? To invest money into a plane that you will soon retire makes zero sense to me. Or are they keeping them longer than planned?

Agree, or this is a simple fishing to see the reaction of the general public. Maybe they want to see how much people will complain about the reduction in legroom. I am getting sick of the "it is only 1 inch" statement by airlines.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-06-12 17:42:27 and read 14861 times.

Quoting WROORD (Reply 6):
They got the idea from US, their planes are pretty cramped. I guess all that talk about developing a new world class airline translates differently for the executives at AA.

I don't think US' planes are that cramped at all. Granted the 737s aren't the best, but I'm 6 feet tall and find their a32X series some of the most comfortable in the US.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: HeeseokKoo
Posted 2013-06-12 17:49:13 and read 14784 times.

After looking at how many F seats are allocated on their new 319, I have a feeling that some F seats will be gone and replaced by more Y seats..

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: rotating14
Posted 2013-06-12 17:49:14 and read 14784 times.

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 11):
Agree, or this is a simple fishing to see the reaction of the general public. Maybe they want to see how much people will complain about the reduction in legroom. I am getting sick of the "it is only 1 inch" statement by airlines.

I'm afraid they don't really care if we complain or not, there's no alternative to flying than flying another carrier. If and/or when it hurts the books is when they'll make moves to go back to the ways of before.

They figure heck, 2-4 hour flight is not that bad, as opposed to a trans con or trans Atlantic flight. But the 737 that runs SEA-MIA is around 5+ hours. That cant be a fun ride with those new arrangements.   

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: AT
Posted 2013-06-12 17:49:18 and read 14781 times.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 10):
The 737s were all recently retrofitted with 150 (really 152) seats with MCE, so they could be crewed with just three flight attendants. Will this action reverse those mods, or will there be subfleets of the different types maintained?

I assume it does, but to be sure- does the flight attendant requirement refer to Occupied seats, right, not physical number of seats.
So if a 150 seat aircraft only has 90 passengers on a flight, only two attendants are required, right?


On a different note, if they can guarantee that by adding the extra seats, they will not decrease the legroom (possible, if they use thinner seats), I would be fine with that. But of course that's not happening.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-06-12 17:52:42 and read 14730 times.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 10):
The 737s were all recently retrofitted with 150 (really 152) seats with MCE, so they could be crewed with just three flight attendants. Will this action reverse those mods, or will there be subfleets of the different types maintained?

Currently UA fits 154 in a F/Y+/Y config on the 738

Quoting davescj (Reply 9):
I do wonder how many pax (esp corporate, frequent fliers) may move to UA, DL over this (esp ORD based).

UA is adding seats to the 319.

Things aren't always greener on the other side

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2013-06-12 17:54:09 and read 14720 times.

Quoting AT (Reply 15):

I assume it does, but to be sure- does the flight attendant requirement refer to Occupied seats, right, not physical number of seats.
So if a 150 seat aircraft only has 90 passengers on a flight, only two attendants are required, right?

On a different note, if they can guarantee that by adding the extra seats, they will not decrease the legroom (possible, if they use thinner seats), I would be fine with that. But of course that's not happening.


Nope, Total number of fixed seats. A 737 must have three flight attendants, now four, if the number were to be increased.

This differs from the Canadian model, as you described, or as limited to where an FA is seated near each exit door to assist in the event of evacuation.


This would be very difficult to do. The 737s already have new slimline seats, which are very good, and the MCE product from what I hear is performing well for the most part.

On the 80s, it would be easy to add rows of seats by removing or amending the configuration of the rear galley, a la DL, and also adding new slimline seats... Now that the 80s are being used on shorter and shorter routes, this would make a lot of sense. Its a good airplane to use for short routes so they can burn up cycles on paid-for airplanes to accelerate their retirement.

[Edited 2013-06-12 17:55:28]

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: JoePatroni707
Posted 2013-06-12 17:58:15 and read 14680 times.

Oh for the love of god...didnt we just get MCE installed??? Jeeze!

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-06-12 17:58:55 and read 14680 times.

Quoting AT (Reply 15):
does the flight attendant requirement refer to Occupied seats, right, not physical number of seats.

No, it is the number of seats....nothing to do with the passenger load. It wouldn't make much sense to just break the 150 seat number as you'd need another FA per FAA rules. Might as well cram in another row or two to pay for that extra FA.

[Edited 2013-06-12 18:03:03]

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: AA94
Posted 2013-06-12 18:19:53 and read 14446 times.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 14):
They figure heck, 2-4 hour flight is not that bad, as opposed to a trans con or trans Atlantic flight. But the 737 that runs SEA-MIA is around 5+ hours. That cant be a fun ride with those new arrangements.   

I recently flew IAD-LAX (block time: 5:30) in MCE. It was a full flight, and I was very uncomfortable. I couldn't imagine sitting in regular coach on a flight like that, much less with another inch gone. Mind you, I'm only in the 5'8" range as well.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-06-12 18:27:08 and read 14328 times.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 14):
But the 737 that runs SEA-MIA is around 5+ hours.

AA utilizes the 752 on the MIA-SEA route.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: nutsaboutplanes
Posted 2013-06-12 18:40:41 and read 14188 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 16):
UA is adding seats to the 319.

Things aren't always greener on the other side

I believe DL is changing lavatory configurations on their 737's to add seats as well and US is adding 4 seats to the A321 fleet. This is the most responsible way to increase capacity without an exorbitant increase in cost. Why add aircraft and flights when you can operate more efficiently with what you have and still end up with a more desirable result.

Smart move by AA.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: nutsaboutplanes
Posted 2013-06-12 18:44:44 and read 14139 times.

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 11):
I am getting sick of the "it is only 1 inch" statement by airlines.

Which airline said that?   

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: davescj
Posted 2013-06-12 18:50:23 and read 14074 times.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 22):
I believe DL is changing lavatory configurations on their 737's to add seats as well and US is adding 4 seats to the A321 fleet.

DL is also making the lav smaller as I understand it. That is not exactly a great thing, since the room is not generous as it is.

Also - DL is not over strict (as a rule) about which lav you use (in your cabin) when the service is going on (so you don't' have to navigate the cart) or on smaller flights.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: nutsaboutplanes
Posted 2013-06-12 19:00:20 and read 14556 times.

Quoting davescj (Reply 24):
DL is also making the lav smaller as I understand it. That is not exactly a great thing, since the room is not generous as it is.

Also - DL is not over strict (as a rule) about which lav you use (in your cabin) when the service is going on (so you don't' have to navigate the cart) or on smaller flights.

davesjc......Happy 6th Anniversary on Anet!   

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-06-12 19:14:10 and read 14545 times.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 13):
After looking at how many F seats are allocated on their new 319, I have a feeling that some F seats will be gone and replaced by more Y seats..

This was my first thought.

Although I happy to see they are looking to maximize revenue opportunities, I'm not exactly trilled at the choice of 8F seats on the A319s and if this does turn out to be a reduction in F seats then it's just another sign of the direction the new management is heading with respect to top tier elite benefits and perks.

While I can see the MD80s dropping down to 12 F seats as the fleet begins to shrink and they are moved to less premium heavy routes, a decrease in F seating on the 737s would have a HUGE impact many top tier elites and premium heavy routes. Granted we'll usually pay for a discounted F ticket when we really want to fly F but it's still nice to be able to by a cheaper ticket with the upgrade option as EXPs once in a while. However, lately the removal of the 757s, replaced with 737s, from our most traveled route (ORD-MIA) has resulted in an upgrade percentage of less than 50% for us this year on those flights where we bought a coach ticket.

I'm dreading the changes to the AAdvantage program under this new leadership - as such my S.O. and I have already decided that after we qualify for EXP again later this year we're going slow our spending down for 2014 and start burning through some of the 3 million miles we're sitting on before reward levels have a chance to come anywhere near what they are with US Airways. We figure Dec. 2014 will be a good time to re-evaluate the changes and direction of the new AA with respect to EXP vs PLT. If we still like what we see we can take another AONE trip in the beginning of 2015 to requalify for EXP but if there's less of a differentiation between EXP and PLT then as 3MM soon to be 4MM we may just spend 2015 looking at other options out of MKE since UA has twice as many flights between MKE-ORD for connections and DL has some great options and the new (old YX) lounge in the D concourse.

It's going to be an interesting 2014 for AA. I personally hope the new mangement tries continue down the path of trying to build it back up into a great premium airline.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: davescj
Posted 2013-06-12 19:26:04 and read 14989 times.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 25):

WOW......TY I didn't even notice! LOL

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 26):
Although I happy to see they are looking to maximize revenue opportunities, I'm not exactly trilled at the choice of 8F seats on the A319s and if this does turn out to be a reduction in F seats then it's just another sign of the direction the new management is heading with respect to top tier elite benefits and perks.

On DL, the A319 has 12 seats. As a PM, rarely get upgraded. But, FWIW, AA does have a different upgrade system. But if they go with the US system (free upgrades based on availability), say good by to upgrades on the these flights unless you're a super elite.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 26):
I'm dreading the changes to the AAdvantage program under this new leadership - as such my S.O. and I have already decided that after we qualify for EXP again later this year we're going slow our spending down for 2014 and start burning through some of the 3 million miles we're sitting on before reward levels have a chance to come anywhere near what they are with US Airways. We figure Dec. 2014 will be a good time to re-evaluate the changes and direction of the new AA with respect to EXP vs PLT.

DL, UA both offer matches....just saying.

Dave

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-06-12 19:26:51 and read 14915 times.

And just for the record, this is an AA management decision. Somehow I have the feeling someone will claim that US management is behind the decision.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2013-06-12 20:01:28 and read 14495 times.

Here comes Doug Parker to fudge it up!

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-06-12 20:07:04 and read 14497 times.

I'm quite confused about this decision. Before MCE was put in place, AA had 2 different 737 configurations. The old one had about 148 seats and by removing a galley and adding narrower seats, the newer configuration had 160 seats. Both configurations had 16 F. When they began adding MCE, the seat count went down to 150. So now they are trying to have MCE and have more than 150 seats? I don't see where they are finding this precious space, but i'm curious to see how it happens.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-06-12 20:21:29 and read 14235 times.

Quoting davescj (Reply 9):
I do wonder how many pax (esp corporate, frequent fliers) may move to UA, DL over this (esp ORD based).

It makes little sense to add seats to an airplane if you don't expect to fill them. As such, it stands to reason AA is adding seats because there are people who want to fly AA, but cannot due to no available seats.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: n7371f
Posted 2013-06-12 20:33:39 and read 14195 times.

Now Arriving Scott Kirby! Welcome AA to 12 seats in first for 738, M80 & 321's not equipped for transcontinental.

Personally I think the HP world view will change over time but not before Kirby blows it with taking out F seats. Just watch. US was last to put 'f' on regional jets because Kirby was convinced psgrs didn't care.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-06-12 20:52:06 and read 13662 times.

It's only conjecture that they remove F seats. Though I really don't understand airlines taking F seats out of mainline aircraft with 100+ seats when larger RJs already have a higher percentage of F seats than some mainline aircraft

US
CR7 9/58 15.5%
CR9 9/70 12.8%
170 9/60 15%
175 8/72 11%
190 11/88 12.5%

319 12/112 10.7%
320 12/138 8.7%

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: jjeff
Posted 2013-06-12 22:19:28 and read 12722 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 21):
Quoting rotating14 (Reply 14):But the 737 that runs SEA-MIA is around 5+ hours.

AA utilizes the 752 on the MIA-SEA route.


And flight time often tops six hours...

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: cschleic
Posted 2013-06-12 22:27:40 and read 12653 times.

Quoting jjeff (Reply 34):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 21):
Quoting rotating14 (Reply 14):But the 737 that runs SEA-MIA is around 5+ hours.

AA utilizes the 752 on the MIA-SEA route.


And flight time often tops six hours...

When I rode it back in January it was pushing seven hours, but maybe slow that day. Fortunately, I had an exit row.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: etops1
Posted 2013-06-12 22:44:39 and read 12482 times.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 32):

That statement is so not true on many levels its just laughable .. Kirby was the one heading the team to install FC on the regional jets .. Shows how much BS some people talk on these forums .

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-06-12 22:59:59 and read 12317 times.

Quoting davescj (Reply 27):
DL, UA both offer matches....just saying.

Good to know - thank you.

Quoting EricR (Reply 28):
And just for the record, this is an AA management decision. Somehow I have the feeling someone will claim that US management is behind the decision.

Also good to know - I was wondering if this was old AA or new AA.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 33):
It's only conjecture that they remove F seats. Though I really don't understand airlines taking F seats out of mainline aircraft with 100+ seats when larger RJs already have a higher percentage of F seats than some mainline aircraft

So true! Then again most people would know that if they actually took the time to read through entire thread at sometimes before commenting ... LOL.
-----------------
When I saw they were adding seats back to the 738s again, I first thought was that they didn't get the FAA approval they needed for that middle seat blocker they wanted to install which I always thought was a really dumb idea. Anyone know if that was approved or not? I guess if they're gonna be adding more seats it's a mute point because there's no need for it.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-06-12 23:08:39 and read 12257 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 28):
And just for the record, this is an AA management decision. Somehow I have the feeling someone will claim that US management is behind the decision.

   I don't think US management can even legally talk about these decisions until the merger is final. But AA flyers are going to need a scapegoat...

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: AAplat4life
Posted 2013-06-13 05:22:10 and read 10278 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
I don't think US management can even legally talk about these decisions until the merger is final. But AA flyers are going to need a scapegoat...

I agree. However, the various changes AA is instituting does not make a lot of sense given the pending merger. As the recent management announcements confirm, and make abundantly clear, this is a takeover of AA by the US management team. With few exceptions, AA management will continue to be replaced by US ranks, and all of these decisions will have to be reevaluated.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: SJUSXM
Posted 2013-06-13 05:36:22 and read 10078 times.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 37):
When I saw they were adding seats back to the 738s again, I first thought was that they didn't get the FAA approval they needed for that middle seat blocker they wanted to install which I always thought was a really dumb idea. Anyone know if that was approved or not? I guess if they're gonna be adding more seats it's a mute point because there's no need for it.

It was approved and has been flying for a little bit now. Confuses the heck out of people when you try to explain that there is a cupholder/table thingy next to them and that they won't have another passenger there. Or that they're sitting next to their wife/husband when its 16A and 16C.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: superjeff
Posted 2013-06-13 06:42:27 and read 9271 times.

Don't blame US on this one. They have really improved their operation (including in regard to elite frequent flyers) over the last few years, and Parker has said the new AA will be "world class" because that is what is expected of an airline in competition with some of the world's best.

Y es, US was a disaster up til about 3 years ago; however, they have really improved their operation, their Airbus domestic equipment is very comfortable (even in coach), and their people are good. Their international fleet (except the 762's) is generally much better than anything AA has.

Frankly, how many people bitching about domestic first class on US ever pay for first class anyway? Maybe we ought to get away from a free upgrade mentality and pay for the service so the airlines can afford to offer a true first class service like in years past.

I'm a Plat with AA and Gold with US, so I include myself in this group; however, I have frequently paid for first when I want to ride in front.

Jeff

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-06-13 06:54:54 and read 9131 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 16):
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 10):
The 737s were all recently retrofitted with 150 (really 152) seats with MCE, so they could be crewed with just three flight attendants. Will this action reverse those mods, or will there be subfleets of the different types maintained?

Currently UA fits 154 in a F/Y+/Y config on the 738

Quoting davescj (Reply 9):
I do wonder how many pax (esp corporate, frequent fliers) may move to UA, DL over this (esp ORD based).

UA is adding seats to the 319.

Things aren't always greener on the other side

That is a great fact that you pointed out. So does anyone know just how many more seats AA will at to their 738 fleet? And how many seats will AA have in first and coach on their A319 fleet?

UA 737 are very comfortable in E+ but as a 6'1 tall person E- sucks no matter how short or long the flight is.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-06-13 06:59:59 and read 9068 times.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 10):
The 737s were all recently retrofitted with 150 (really 152) seats with MCE, so they could be crewed with just three flight attendants. Will this action reverse those mods, or will there be subfleets of the different types maintained?

That's what I don't understand, either. How many seats is the new AA planning on adding to justify the cost of the fourth FA if they didn't think it was worth it at 160 seats under the previous configuration?

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 30):
I'm quite confused about this decision. Before MCE was put in place, AA had 2 different 737 configurations. The old one had about 148 seats and by removing a galley and adding narrower seats, the newer configuration had 160 seats. Both configurations had 16 F. When they began adding MCE, the seat count went down to 150. So now they are trying to have MCE and have more than 150 seats? I don't see where they are finding this precious space, but i'm curious to see how it happens.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I'm hoping that the additional seats come not from reducing the size of the F cabin, but by reducing the amount of MCE seats. I think there are too many on the 737 and 757 (and, conversely, not enough on the 767) and they end up being given away for free to passengers who were unable to get seat assignments during check-in (which is a fun conversation to have) when they all storm the podium at the gate.

I don't understand the mistrust toward Parker and Kirby, considering that they both worked at AMR long before they went to US Airways. Unless they're complete idiots (which I doubt, considering the performance of US under their stewardship), they should know that American is a different animal and what worked at US may not necessarily work here.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2013-06-13 08:33:08 and read 7965 times.

That's a huge improvement over loosing seats!!!

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-06-13 08:52:12 and read 7683 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
   I don't think US management can even legally talk about these decisions until the merger is final. But AA flyers are going to need a scapegoat...

No scapegoat need to apply. We will just wait until US runs AA into the ground and makes it as bad as US.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 41):

Don't blame US on this one. They have really improved their operation (including in regard to elite frequent flyers) over the last few years, and Parker has said the new AA will be "world class" because that is what is expected of an airline in competition with some of the world's best.


Yes we should not blame US for this, they screwed up one airline after another, we should wait until the merger is complete which by using the historical data should be in about 6-10 years. Then we can blame US for the collapse of AA because they really are not able to run a decent airline. US is the worst airline in the US and I for one will be not be riding on any AA flight from here on out as US will be bring its style of flying to AA. I guess we'll just have to wait for the disaster to take place.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: kmot
Posted 2013-06-13 08:59:19 and read 7608 times.

Dosen't Delta fit 160 seats on its 737-800's?

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-06-13 09:06:33 and read 7529 times.

Here are a couple of observations.

First, aren't there a couple of tables in the 738s with the MCE configuration. It could be that AA has decided that the revenue for making those seats is more makes up for the cost of the extra F/A.

Second, AA may be learning that people aren't as willing to pay for MCE as they first thought. So, they may be cutting down on the number of MCE rows and putting in additional seats with the standard pitch.

So, the rows of standard seats aren't getting tighter. They are just going to increase the number of rows, while reducing the number of MCE rows.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: awacsooner
Posted 2013-06-13 09:08:34 and read 7504 times.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 41):
Y es, US was a disaster up til about 3 years ago

It still is...I've been on both US east and west where I have overhead the flight crews badmouthing the other sets...there is still a great deal of animosity.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 45):
We will just wait until US runs AA into the ground and makes it as bad as US.

I miss HP pre-Doug...

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-06-13 09:54:58 and read 6938 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 46):
Dosen't Delta fit 160 seats on its 737-800's?

Yes, but they have far less in the Y+ cabin.

DL 16/18/126
UA 16/48/90
AA 16/56/78

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: Aztrainer
Posted 2013-06-13 09:57:52 and read 6873 times.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 48):
I miss HP pre-Doug...

Agree with you totally.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-06-13 09:58:51 and read 6881 times.

Why the complaints? This is a revenue/yield equation and passengers will not pay for an inch or two in coach. They just won't. So this will be revenue positive for AA and cutomers will get what they want: slightly lower fares.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 7):

Remember those ads "more room thru coach" with seats being thrown out of AA aircraft? They could run them backwards showing seats being thrown back in.

When MRTC failed, we jokingly called it LRTC.  
Quoting ckfred (Reply 47):
Second, AA may be learning that people aren't as willing to pay for MCE as they first thought. So, they may be cutting down on the number of MCE rows and putting in additional seats with the standard pitch.

The market has spoken. Too many employers block minor upgrades...

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-06-13 12:39:17 and read 5951 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 49):
Yes, but they have far less in the Y+ cabin.

DL 16/18/126
UA 16/48/90
AA 16/56/78

Wow, I didn't realize the new configuration was so MCE heavy. I thought they only had 20 or so MCE like the 77W or 763.

Now that I see this, I'm doubting the F cabin will be touched, it will simply be the removal of MCE seats and the addition of regular Y. I just can't imagine them touching F...

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: glbltrvlr
Posted 2013-06-13 12:59:08 and read 5729 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 51):
Too many employers block minor upgrades...

We've had employees called after a business trip asking why they were in a Y+ or F seat contrary to company policy even when they've paid for the upgrade out of personal funds or miles. Nothing wrong with what they did, but the hassle of dealing with a finance twit with a travel cost savings goal is enough to put them off of doing it on future trips.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-06-13 13:12:26 and read 5590 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 51):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 7):

Remember those ads "more room thru coach" with seats being thrown out of AA aircraft? They could run them backwards showing seats being thrown back in.

When MRTC failed, we jokingly called it LRTC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFUFxcKth2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb_17s5EM6M

The similar TWA "Comfort Class" effort didn't work either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XuksUYX7Jg

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: redzeppelin
Posted 2013-06-13 13:48:35 and read 5271 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 49):
Quoting kmot (Reply 46):
Dosen't Delta fit 160 seats on its 737-800's?

Yes, but they have far less in the Y cabin.

DL 16/18/126
UA 16/48/90
AA 16/56/78
Quoting oc2dc (Reply 52):
Wow, I didn't realize the new configuration was so MCE heavy. I thought they only had 20 or so MCE like the 77W or 763.

Now that I see this, I'm doubting the F cabin will be touched, it will simply be the removal of MCE seats and the addition of regular Y. I just can't imagine them touching F...

My experience on Delta is that many of the Y+ seats get taken up by medallions who get them for free. I don't get the sense that they sell very many of them, but I could be wrong. I fly DL quite a bit and watch the seatmaps for my flights pretty close. Right at the PM upgrade window, I always see a bunch of Y+ seats suddenly open up as the PMs get moved to F. Those Y+ seats often tend to remain unfilled until flight time, and either go out empty or get filled with Silvers, non-revs and stand-bys. DL markets Y+ heavily -- I get a constant stream of emails about it, and their website pushes it hard too. I'd love to know what they really make from it. I wonder if they are the smart ones for keeping Y+ a bit smaller than the others. I find it very interesting that UA is adopting the DL configuration for 76-seaters (12/12/52), given that they have such different configurations on the CR7 (9/8/48 on DL vs 6/32/28 on UA). The only time I've ever paid for Y+ was on a TATL flight (but as a GM for the past 7 months, I get free Y+ on domestic flights and love it.)

But I don't think DL is the only one struggling to sell Y+. Just yesterday I had a flight on a UA/OO CR7. I bought the ticket almost a month ago, but there were only Y+ seats available at that time so I didn't get a seat assignment. The flight was pretty full, and I was one of at least 8 people who received seat assignments in Y+ for free at the gate. i was happy to take the risk, given that the CR7 has no middle seats.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-06-13 14:08:57 and read 5134 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 18):
Oh for the love of god...didnt we just get MCE installed??? Jeeze!

I simply don't understand AA anymore. Almost all of the MD80's have 119 in main cabin now. Yeah they will just reduce MCE rows. So it's 16/119. They could add 15 seats and still staff it with 3 f/a's. I honestly think this had to be a US influenced decision.
There is nothing more difficult than to be a long time airline employee---of ANY airline I suppose (perhaps DL and WN might be exceptions), and see what they have become.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2013-06-13 15:52:36 and read 4267 times.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 22):
and still end up with a more desirable result.

Not necessarily to passengers!

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: delta2ual
Posted 2013-06-13 20:17:42 and read 3525 times.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 55):
But I don't think DL is the only one struggling to sell Y+.

I'm not sure how many are sold vs. free, but I did just buy a ticket ORD-FLL return on AA and UA and purchased extra legroom on both flights. The funny thing is, on AA it was only $24 and on UA it was $60!

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-06-13 20:40:49 and read 3444 times.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 55):
I find it very interesting that UA is adopting the DL configuration for 76-seaters (12/12/52), given that they have such different configurations on the CR7 (9/8/48 on DL vs 6/32/28 on UA).

Actually the E175 that United ordered will have a slightly different set up than Delta's 76 seat type aircraft. United's 76 seater aircraft will have a 12/16/48 layout giving UA 4 more Y+ seats than Delta.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 55):
But I don't think DL is the only one struggling to sell Y+. Just yesterday I had a flight on a UA/OO CR7. I bought the ticket almost a month ago, but there were only Y+ seats available at that time so I didn't get a seat assignment.

It seems as if you are suggesting that United is struggling to sell Y+ because our Y+ section is to big. Well I can assure you that is not true although you may have gotten a Y+ seat on your flight without paying and some passengers do on over sold flights i can assure you that is not the norm for most passengers. Outside of baggage fees up selling Y+ was one of United's top ancillary fee money maker in 2012. While Delta's Y+ cabin is just large enough to accommodate their medallion members with status United's Y+ cabin is large enough to accommodate not only our frequently flyers with status but also passengers with out status who want some extra room and are willing to pay this is especially true on international trips where those 4-5 extra inches of leg room can make a difference when you are 6 feet tall. Although United loss money in 2012 and in the Q1 of this year they are raking it in when it comes to ancillary fees and selling Y+ seats is one of our top money makers. So United is not reducing the size their Y+ cabin nor are we struggling to sell Y+ seats.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-06-13 21:26:02 and read 3375 times.

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 56):
There is nothing more difficult than to be a long time airline employee---of ANY airline I suppose (perhaps DL and WN might be exceptions), and see what they have become.

It's true...it's getting harder all the time. I've been flying for over 30 years and retirement is sounding pretty good! I still love my job and making my passengers feel welcome but the chip, chip, chip is getting worse and worse. I'm surprised that anyone flies anymore unless they have to...airports are crowded, TSA lines are often outrageous, airfares are higher than ever...and have you rented a car lately? Travel is a hassle and packing more seats into a plane when the airlines are showing nice profits isn't helping any.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-06-13 21:47:44 and read 3362 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 45):
Yes we should not blame US for this, they screwed up one airline after another, we should wait until the merger is complete which by using the historical data should be in about 6-10 years. Then we can blame US for the collapse of AA because they really are not able to run a decent airline. US is the worst airline in the US and I for one will be not be riding on any AA flight from here on out as US will be bring its style of flying to AA. I guess we'll just have to wait for the disaster to take place.

A friend of mine is an AA pilot. From what he learned during the US courting of AA's unions, there were a number of employees who were concerned that US was going to lower the standards of AA, especially domestic first and international first/business.

In a nutshell, Doug Parker said that US's route system doesn't have as much high-yield routes and premium traffic as AA's route system. We know that AA hauls a lot of premium traffic on JFK-LAX, as well as the hubs to LHR, the hubs to Japan and China, and DFW/MIA to South America.

AA has flown ORD-LGA for many, many years. That route probably has a very good yield, because of the heavy business traffic.

US just doesn't have the same route structure.

Parker believes that in the longrun, US passengers will see improvements, as US routes start seeing AA levels of service. He does know about offering a better product, since he got his start at AA.

Granted, a lot of mergers were predicated on the merged company offering better service, and the better service never materialized. So, it remains to be seen if Parker was just saying what the unions wanted to hear, in order to get the deal done, or if he really thinks that the combined route system lends itself to keeping AA's product and bringing US service to that standard.

However, US did learn a lesson the hard way. In the pre-Doug days, US irritated the hell out of Piedmont passengers after the merger. Piedmont F/As used to hand out glasses with the full can of pop. After the merger, they were instructed to follow US procedure, which was to pour the glass full, and then keep the can for the next passenger requesting that kind of soda.

Piedmont passengers let US management know in no uncertain terms that the change was unacceptable. Within a few months, the Piedmont beverage procedure became standard thoughout the entire US system. I got this from a friend of mine who had been a Piedmont dispatcher before becoming a US dispatcher.

If Parker knows about this, he should understand that trying to lower AA's product to US standards will send customers to UA and DL. This would be particularly easy for AA loyalists in BOS, New York, ORD, and LAX.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: chepos
Posted 2013-06-14 06:22:05 and read 3048 times.

I am a tad confused, to my knowledge merger has not been approved yet so how is this a decision made or influenced by US leadership. Not too long ago an AAer who frequents this forum (no names mentioned) told us that no matter how much Doug disliked the livery he had no say in AA until he had the reigns of the company, so for the time being he would have to wait till he was in control to call the shots on the livery. Now AA decides to add seats and it is Dougies and Scott's decision, eventhough they are not running AA. Seems to me AA fan boys just need a scapegoat and just blame the merger partner, as you are all very aware AA and US are two separate carriers. Tom Horton and co. still call the shots at American Airlines.

Anywho, if a program is not working and an airline is struggling (AA), why would you like to keep more legroom just for prestige reasons. AA can't afford to keep things just for the sake of saying we have MCE but we are broke and having financial difficulties. Reduce the number of MCE to what the customer is actually willing to pay or yank them off the plane.

Again, people are talking about this glamorous AA, in the many years I have flown AA I guess have been flying some other American Airlines not the one the fan boys like to remember. That good old A300 must have been flying for the South American version of AA, not to the glamorous AA some of you tlak about.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: JoePatroni707
Posted 2013-06-14 08:58:21 and read 2866 times.

No one will ever convince me that this was NOT a Doug Parker decision. He has been spending a great deal of time at AMR HDQ, or should I say LCC HDQ now... Anyway 4 seats could be added to the 737s very quickly by removing the "drink tables" in rows 16 and 17. By reducing F down to 8 another 18 coach seats could be added. That would bring the capacity to 8F 156Y. Super 80s dont have any drink tables but again by taking reducing F to 8 a similar configuration of 8F and 134Y...

Friends of mine that work in premium services have told me that our top tier customers are not looking forward to this merger. Fear is that Doug and team who could care less about the customer will take away many of the perks and benefits they get on AA.

By Doug reducing First Class capacity (as seen in the A319s) this is clearly an indication he still has no clue how to run a premium airline chasing premium customers.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: apodino
Posted 2013-06-14 09:12:42 and read 2822 times.

I don't think the a319 was influenced by Doug Parker. The A319 order and config was determined before The merger and if the merger was influencing it...the config would have been closer to what USAirways has...(12 F instead of 8)

I think we are reading way too much into this. If the extra seats are being added while maintaining an E+ product...then what you have is still plenty of E+ and a better product than what US currently offers...and reading this thread...that seems to be what is happening.

I am not worried about DP yet and I think he is the right guy to lead this. He knows that American needs a quality product to compete in the biggest cities, he knows that the UA merger was rushed and is still causing problems, he knows getting Joint labor contracts quickly will help planning, and he knows that AA is a full Service carrier and can't be run as an LCC. He was even getting USAir away from the LCC model despite their stock symbol. I fly US a lot, the planes are comfortable, clean, and generally on time. Last time I flew Delta...the plane had so many coffee stains in the overhead panel it was filthy, which was very disappointing given the number of elites on my flight.

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: DELTArodeo
Posted 2013-06-14 10:11:09 and read 2725 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
MD-80s will be around atleast another 5-years

oh sweet jesus, not a minute too soon
   

Topic: RE: AA To Add More Seats
Username: EaglePower83
Posted 2013-06-14 11:15:45 and read 2609 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 63):
No one will ever convince me that this was NOT a Doug Parker decision. He has been spending a great deal of time at AMR HDQ, or should I say LCC HDQ now...

Ahhh the sweet aroma of non-fact-based dogma.


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