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Topic: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: jetjack74
Posted 2013-06-21 23:00:14 and read 17633 times.

Apparently, July 1st will be the announcement for LHR. A Sept start-up date is expected

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Prost
Posted 2013-06-21 23:04:10 and read 17643 times.

Huh. An international routes that won't have the OLDs complaining about the LODs.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: jetjack74
Posted 2013-06-21 23:16:55 and read 17536 times.

A Sept start-up date is expected. Highly unusual for a route to start up so quickly after the date it's announced.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: slinky09
Posted 2013-06-21 23:18:57 and read 17520 times.

Interesting that September is when VS stops serving Accra, although the flight times for that would not suit Seattle.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-06-22 05:45:13 and read 16924 times.

B763 or A332?

Also, any ideas how this will affect BA's increase in capacity on LHR-SEA to 10 weekly (7x B744, 3x B772) as of October ?

BA's plans are to maintain 10 weekly for next summer, with all flights operated by B744.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-06-22 06:51:38 and read 16691 times.

I would be interested what time slot the SEA-LHR flight will operate, along with the equipment.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-06-22 07:02:19 and read 16629 times.

Quoting Prost (Reply 1):
Huh. An international routes that won't have the OLDs complaining about the LODs

What are OLDs and LODs ?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-06-22 07:17:11 and read 16548 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 6):
What are OLDs and LODs ?

I don't know what OLD stands for but LOD is Language of Destination. He is referring to FAs.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: cschleic
Posted 2013-06-22 07:50:00 and read 16398 times.

Starting a route like that just after the summer travel season?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: hiflyeras
Posted 2013-06-22 08:11:16 and read 16283 times.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 8):
Starting a route like that just after the summer travel season?

I thought that a bit odd as well. Start-up mere weeks from announcing and at the end of the peak travel season seems odd to me. If they don't start it in September they might as well wait until next April. Maybe it'll happen as rumored if they want to begin sooner than later.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-06-22 08:16:02 and read 16256 times.

From what I can tell, DL has wanted to start this route as soon as possible for the last year. I imagine they think they can fill it up year round anyway, so they will start as soon as they are able.

I normally would route PDX-AMS-LHR on Delta to get to the UK, but this flight will cut out some time and give me a reason to connect in SEA to then go direct.

I imagine this flight will do great.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-06-22 08:32:05 and read 16142 times.

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 9):
Start-up mere weeks from announcing and at the end of the peak travel season seems odd to me. If they don't start it in September they might as well wait until next April.

That approach suggests they're counting on a big fraction of business passengers (buying tickets not far in advance of travel) rather than relying on leisure travelers and the SEA summer seasonal traffic. I don't expect this to be a VS-operated flight; I expect a Delta 767-300. If that proves correct it will be interesting to see if they use a high J (~36) or low J (~26) version.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: CIDFlyer
Posted 2013-06-22 08:39:47 and read 16101 times.

didnt NWA operate this route at one time?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-06-22 08:42:55 and read 16073 times.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 8):

Starting a route like that just after the summer travel season?

I agree it doesn't sound like that great of timing especially with BA increasing frequency.

I assume it would be a 767 since that is what the majority of long haul SEA flights are. Also I hope it isn't a 2pm departure like AMS and CDG. Those early departures are brutal for jet lag and since the route does not depend on connections, there is no need for a 7am arrival. A 1pm arrival might even be better for slots.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: anstar
Posted 2013-06-22 09:20:50 and read 15924 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 3):
Interesting that September is when VS stops serving Accra, although the flight times for that would not suit Seattle.

I believe the SEA slot was purchased from Alitalia.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Prost
Posted 2013-06-22 10:08:58 and read 15602 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 6):

What are OLDs and LODs ?


LOD= Language of Destination
OLD= Senior  

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-06-22 10:12:38 and read 15558 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):
didnt NWA operate this route at one time?

It lasted about seven months in 2008. I don't recall to what route DL reallocated the slot.

http://seattletimes.com/html/travel/2008387714_webnorthwest13.html

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: dtwlax
Posted 2013-06-22 11:26:08 and read 14916 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 4):
B763 or A332?
Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 11):
I expect a Delta 767-300. If that proves correct it will be interesting to see if they use a high J (~36) or low J (~26) version.

DL may want to maintain a consistent product to LHR. Do they have any more 764s? If not which of the A330s have flat beds in the front cabin?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: alitalia744
Posted 2013-06-22 12:08:20 and read 14581 times.

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 17):
DL may want to maintain a consistent product to LHR. Do they have any more 764s? If not which of the A330s have flat beds in the front cabin?

There is virtually no difference to the average consumer between a refurbished 763 (low or high-J versions) and a 764. The flatbeds are exactly the same, in fact, with the bathroom LEDs the 763 looks slightly more modern inside.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-06-22 12:28:51 and read 14389 times.

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 17):

It'll be a lie flat 763

Quoting Prost (Reply 15):

OLD also = pain in the ass/lazy.  

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-06-22 12:33:05 and read 14360 times.

Is SLC-LHR coming at the same time.

I always figured they'd add SLC-AMS first, but others have stated that SLC-LHR is coming soon.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-06-22 13:17:10 and read 14045 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
assume it would be a 767 since that is what the majority of long haul SEA flights are. Also I hope it isn't a 2pm departure like AMS and CDG. Those early departures are brutal for jet lag and since the route does not depend on connections, there is no need for a 7am arrival. A 1pm arrival might even be better for slots.

So you are you are hoping for something like a 6:30 or 7pm departure time out of SEA which should put you in LHR by 1pm and 2:30pm departure out of LHR should arrive back in SEA by 4:30pm give or take a few minutes?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2013-06-22 13:24:33 and read 13981 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 20):

Is SLC-LHR coming at the same time.

I always figured they'd add SLC-AMS first, but others have stated that SLC-LHR is coming soon.

I think SLC-LHR is a ways off. Esecially considering there will be a link via SEA now. There are other routes I think they would like to add first. Just my opinion though.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: cokepopper
Posted 2013-06-22 14:05:55 and read 13699 times.

I wouldn't be surprised if Delta swapped one or both of Virgin's LHR-EWR flights thus freeing
Up Virgin's larger A/C. The Delta 76L would be a better fit on this route.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-06-22 14:34:02 and read 13486 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 20):

that is the next flight to be added after SEA and DTW #2.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):

I think SLC-LHR is a ways off. Esecially considering there will be a link via SEA now. There are other routes I think they would like to add first. Just my opinion though.

per the JV paperwork it is next on the list. (both SEA and DTW slots have already been bought)

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):

Yes, NW had the route. IIRC the slot is now being used on CDG-LHR by AF. Also I believe that it is, or was, being flown by an ATR.

Quoting anstar (Reply 14):
.

correct.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2013-06-22 15:04:14 and read 13798 times.

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 17):
DL may want to maintain a consistent product to LHR. Do they have any more 764s? If not which of the A330s have flat beds in the front cabin?
Quoting dtwlax (Reply 17):
There is virtually no difference to the average consumer between a refurbished 763 (low or high-J versions) and a 764. The flatbeds are exactly the same, in fact, with the bathroom LEDs the 763 looks slightly more modern inside.

76Ws are already used to LHR from BOS, ATL, and JFK.

Jeremy

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: baw716
Posted 2013-06-22 15:10:12 and read 13994 times.

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 23):
I wouldn't be surprised if Delta swapped one or both of Virgin's LHR-EWR flights thus freeing
Up Virgin's larger A/C. The Delta 76L would be a better fit on this route.

If DL is going to go up against BA in the SEA-LHR market, they need to do it with a bigger plane. While I love the 763 for a lot of reasons (it's perfect for SEA-LHR), the 764 would be better. Now...depending upon what DL wants to do in Seattle, a VS vs. BA battle in Seattle would be an interesting thing to see. Better head to head product competition (sorry DL , but both VS and BA's product is way better, especially in Y class); VS could run it with a 330 or even a 346 if necessary.

This is NOT to say that DL won't do well with SEA-LHR, especially if AS drops BA. However, the Seattle market is unique in that if you have a nonstop from there to anywhere in Europe, you will pick up traffic from most of Oregon, Idaho and NW Canada (the fares are substantially less south of the border). AS feeds them all...so if DL went with their own metal (which I rather think likely) then DL will do just fine.

Just saying that VS would make it more interesting...

BA will not take this well...expect them to come back roaring, e.g.. upgraded product (77W or -- purely speculating here) a 787 as additional capacity. They've owned SEA-LHR since UA left the market (20 years now?) and they are not going to give it up without a fight....which is why I say that a VS operation here might do better. BA will still have an edge with a four class product, but it will be interesting to see this develop.

Also, don't expect AS to go bye-bye anytime soon. If they more closely align themselves with DL, DL gets the benefits without the additional costs...and v.v. for AS. AS is WAY too independent an airline (and too well loved in the NW) for it to go away without some resistance from someone with big pockets in the PNW.

Lastly, those who compare DL's potential operation of SEA-LHR to NW's....apples and oranges. DL's presence in Seattle is nearly as large as NW's was back in the day and if they go to more markets from Seattle, which seems to be their intent, then DL, with AS as a partner, will have a greater ability to pull higher yielding passengers from Seattle; which NW was not able to do with its 330 operation.

baw716

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: planesntrains
Posted 2013-06-22 15:49:22 and read 13973 times.

Quoting baw716 (Reply 26):
VS could run it with a 330 or even a 346 if necessary.

An A346 would be sweet! I'd love to see it flying over my house like the BA, FJ, DL, EK, etc birds. Not expecting it, though.

Quoting baw716 (Reply 26):
AS is WAY too independent an airline (and too well loved in the NW) for it to go away without some resistance from someone with big pockets in the PNW.

Call me jaded, but this is how it would go down:

1. DL and AS announce a merger/takeover.
2. Public outcry.
3. WA State reps feign concern and outrage.
4. DL makes "promises" to maintain/enhance SEA/PDX/Alaska services.
5. WA State reps claim victory (for the next election cycle that us lemmings will be voting in).
6. DL waits out the two- or three-year promise period, then begins cutting back, outsourcing, or spinning off various routes/ops in the SEA/PDX/Alaska marketplace, including QX.

Pretty predictable if you ask me.

-Dave

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: zschocheimages
Posted 2013-06-22 16:03:52 and read 13813 times.

Will this take away some of the market for the PDX - AMS flight?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-06-22 16:14:52 and read 13798 times.

Quoting zschocheimages (Reply 28):
Will this take away some of the market for the PDX - AMS flight?

I take PDX-AMS a couple times a year when I need to get to Europe and PDX-AMS-LHR is the only route that I don't like to do because of the hassle of AMS-PDX on KLM Cityhopper. It's just asking for delays and trouble, so I try to avoid that.

PDX-SEA-LHR would be one of the few routes I would chose over PDX-AMS-XXX.
Don't imagine it will take out too much, as PDX-AMS is running daily as an A333 this summer and I think daily A332 this winter. Decent capacity upgauge from before.

I have wondered if BA might try a LHR-PDX flight on the 787 if DL starts SEA-LHR...
Probably wishful thinking, but man would that be a tactical response!

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-06-22 16:18:09 and read 13731 times.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 21):

So you are you are hoping for something like a 6:30 or 7pm departure time out of SEA which should put you in LHR by 1pm and 2:30pm departure out of LHR should arrive back in SEA by 4:30pm give or take a few minutes?

That is what I would hope for and would be similarly timed to BA's flight. Also the South Satellite is extremely crowded in the noon hour. A 4pm arrival back in SEA allows plenty of time to connect to all of AS' network. Also the LHR slots after 12 noon are less valuable since they are after all the east coast US arrivals, and before all of the Far East (China/Japan) arrivals.

I personally hate US west coast departures to Europe that leave around 1pm because you get no sleep on the redeye and end up being away for 36 consecutive hours. That's not good for business travel.

Quoting baw716 (Reply 26):
If DL is going to go up against BA in the SEA-LHR market, they need to do it with a bigger plane. While I love the 763 for a lot of reasons (it's perfect for SEA-LHR), the 764 would be better. Now...depending upon what DL wants to do in Seattle, a VS vs. BA battle in Seattle would be an interesting thing to see. Better head to head product competition (sorry DL , but both VS and BA's product is way better, especially in Y class); VS could run it with a 330 or even a 346 if necessary.

I would be very surprised if they used a 764 on a brand new route or VS metal. The 767-300s have the same business class product as the 767-400s which is full flat to compete against BA. I'm not sure the Y product really matters that much, but we'll see what happens. DL routes up to 7 767-300ERs through SEA on any given day, so from a fleet perspective, it makes sense using that plane and it should allow reasonable fleet rotations between the Transpac and Transatlantic networks.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-06-22 16:29:50 and read 13697 times.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):
I think SLC-LHR is a ways off. Esecially considering there will be a link via SEA now. There are other routes I think they would like to add first. Just my opinion though.

Me too. I think SLC-LHR is for Summer 2014. They have no slot for it. SEA has a slot coming. I also think starting both would be too much capacity dump out west to quick. Smarter to start one and see how it does. Plus they really need to shuffle to get a SLC slot and they said they want a second one for DTW as a higher priority before SLC.

Seems way too soon from announcement to start to have time to sell the seats for SEA-LHR. I hope they can not start so soon, its a tough time of year and not much time to sell.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-06-22 16:57:38 and read 13449 times.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 8):
Starting a route like that just after the summer travel season?

Winter is the peak season for business travel that generates the highest yields.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-06-22 17:04:47 and read 13516 times.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 27):

Yeah they are going to shut down the SEA hub because all those international flights don't need feed.  
Logical. Completely logical.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: planesntrains
Posted 2013-06-22 17:32:05 and read 13281 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 33):
Quoting planesntrains (Reply 27):
Yeah they are going to shut down the SEA hub because all those international flights don't need feed.
Logical. Completely logical.

Are you replying to this?:

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 27):

1. DL and AS announce a merger/takeover.
2. Public outcry.
3. WA State reps feign concern and outrage.
4. DL makes "promises" to maintain/enhance SEA/PDX/Alaska services.
5. WA State reps claim victory (for the next election cycle that us lemmings will be voting in).
6. DL waits out the two- or three-year promise period, then begins cutting back, outsourcing, or spinning off various routes/ops in the SEA/PDX/Alaska marketplace, including QX.

I'm not sure where I said that "...they are going to shut down the SEA hub..."? Clearly that wouldn't be the case.

I'm referring to things such as:

PDX build-up (superfluous to DL in SEA)
SEA-XXX where XXX is not a DL hub/focus city nor strategic to DL (perhaps SEA-PHL/AUS/SAT etc)
ANC/FAI-XXX where XXx is a multitude of destinations in AS that might be outsourced to ERA-types.
Spin off QX and replace certain mainline flying with E175's where it makes sense
Reduction of non-SEA/LAX flying
Reduction of Hawaii flying
Of course, the headquarters/back-office people

That sort of thing. Are you denying that any of that is possible or even perhaps likely over several years after a buyout?

-Dave

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-06-22 17:45:37 and read 13208 times.

Quoting baw716 (Reply 26):
If DL is going to go up against BA in the SEA-LHR market, they need to do it with a bigger plane. While I love the 763 for a lot of reasons (it's perfect for SEA-LHR), the 764 would be better.
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 30):
I would be very surprised if they used a 764 on a brand new route or VS metal. The 767-300s have the same business class product as the 767-400s which is full flat to compete against BA.

I don't understand the assertion that a 764 would be better than a (refurbed) 763. It won't be an old-style, recliner Business 767-300ER; there are only ~15 of those left in a fleet of 58, and even those 15 will be refurbed by ~January 2014. As another poster noted, there have been refurbed 763s committed to LHR routes for a while.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: AA94
Posted 2013-06-22 19:35:43 and read 12644 times.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 35):
I don't understand the assertion that a 764 would be better than a (refurbed) 763. It won't be an old-style, recliner Business 767-300ER; there are only ~15 of those left in a fleet of 58, and even those 15 will be refurbed by ~January 2014. As another poster noted, there have been refurbed 763s committed to LHR routes for a while.

I think the argument is that, for the sake of continuity, a 764 would be more suitable. That would mean that every DL flight into LHR, whether it be ex-SEA/ATL/JFK-BOS would be on the same aircraft.

However, I myself don't understand it, as the product is the exact same up front, and it seems like the 763 is better suited size-wise. Perhaps I'm missing something though ...

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-06-22 19:42:00 and read 12619 times.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 36):
I think the argument is that, for the sake of continuity, a 764 would be more suitable. That would mean that every DL flight into LHR, whether it be ex-SEA/ATL/JFK-BOS would be on the same aircraft.

As already noted earlier in the thread, DL already operates 763s to LHR from BOS and select JFK and ATL flights.

[Edited 2013-06-22 19:44:23]

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BA
Posted 2013-06-22 19:46:14 and read 12675 times.

Anyone know how DL is doing on SEA-CDG ever since they took it over from Air France? I'm sure SEA-LHR will do quite well, especially with the VS joint venture.

It's really impressive the amount of international growth SEA has been experiencing over the past few years. It does make me wonder though how much more capacity can be added...

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: anstar
Posted 2013-06-23 00:32:29 and read 11757 times.

Quoting zschocheimages (Reply 28):
Will this take away some of the market for the PDX - AMS flight?

Possibly - but I think most of the success of the PDX-AMS flight is to do with Adidas and Nike who shuttle staff between the 2 main offices.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: burnsie28
Posted 2013-06-23 05:28:42 and read 11502 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):
didnt NWA operate this route at one time?

Yes but the slot times in LHR made it nearly useless

Just for those curious I just found this:

Quote:
Northwest will operate the new London flights with its joint venture partner, KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. The Seattle flight, on an Airbus A330 plane, will leave at 10:05 p.m. (10:55 p.m. on Fridays) and arrive the next day at 4:15 p.m. (5:05 p.m. on Fridays). The return flight will leave London at 6:30 p.m. and arrive at 8:55 p.m. in Seattle on the same day.


[Edited 2013-06-23 05:34:16]

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: rutankrd
Posted 2013-06-23 05:45:47 and read 11431 times.

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 40):
Yes but the slot times in LHR made it nearly useless



?

It arrived mid morning was operated by a Skysteam carrier with little onward connections not because of time but simply lack of partners !

It could have landed at 06.30z and still been as you say useless - Need onward Skyteam connections avoid LHR period.

There is a small field (in a bog -Joke) just 400 miles east with a multitude of global Skyteam connections and another 400 mile south with a rather tall lightning conductor similarly providing Skyteam connections.

For Delta LHR is primarily about O&D and premium traffic at that.

As an American can you answer why you all want to traverse LHR to go to anywhere else ?

Above does not apply if Oneworld card holder for obvious reasons but *A and Skyteam LHR really is focus.

Even when interlining better options are available elsewhere.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-06-23 12:16:04 and read 10961 times.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 27):
6. DL waits out the two- or three-year promise period, then begins cutting back, outsourcing, or spinning off various routes/ops in the SEA/PDX/Alaska marketplace, including QX.

Yep, and the funny thing is that some people

Quoting anstar (Reply 39):
Possibly - but I think most of the success of the PDX-AMS flight is to do with Adidas and Nike who shuttle staff between the 2 main offices.

That and the fact that Portland is a reasonably affluent progressive mid-size city that can probably support at least one non-stop to Europe.

I always think this is a fallacy when people assume a flight would do well because one particular company has offices on each end. How many people a day from Nike travel back and forth?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: anstar
Posted 2013-06-23 13:41:14 and read 10811 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 42):

I always think this is a fallacy when people assume a flight would do well because one particular company has offices on each end. How many people a day from Nike travel back and forth?

When you factor in that both NIKE/ADIDAS have main offices in AMS and Portland... and then the associated companies that need to travel between the two for business such as suppliers and advertising agencies I would say it makes up quite a chunk of the front end traffic. Certainly enough to make it sustainable and why AMS is the choice over say CDG.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2013-06-23 13:54:18 and read 10770 times.

If it is the case that DL will start SEA-LHR this Autumn it could well be that they want to take BA on to get those three extra weekly frequencies knocked on the head. I also suspect that DL can probably offer a better deal for AS passengers who currently use the BA flight in terms of better mileage deals, etc, for taking DL SEA-LHR over BA.

BA might well be tempted to put the 77W on the LHR-SEA route against DL, not only for product offering but to give them a more efficient aircraft (it's currently a 744), also with fewer economy seats, so they can maybe make some pricing adjustments to take on DL without trashing their yield completely.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-06-23 14:04:39 and read 10734 times.

Quoting zschocheimages (Reply 28):
Quoting zschocheimages (Reply 28):
Will this take away some of the market for the PDX - AMS flight?

How many people backtrack to London from AMS off of that PDX flight? Tomorrow's schedule shows PDX-MSP-LHR is about 40 minutes more time-efficient than PDX-AMS-LHR, but Delta.com offers many more connections PDX-XXX-LHR less time-efficient than PDX-AMS-LHR.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: jetjack74
Posted 2013-06-23 14:15:14 and read 10656 times.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 41):
It arrived mid morning was operated by a Skysteam carrier with little onward connections not because of time but simply lack of partners !

Actually, for the majority of its operation, it arrived in the late afternoon, just shy of 5pm. It did get a better time slot eventually, but by that time, DL already decided to move it for use from another city.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: baw716
Posted 2013-06-24 21:25:16 and read 9972 times.

As much as I would like to see a 764 (again for a/c rotation in/out of LHR), a 763 will do just fine on SEA-LHR and probably be a better yield producer than its bigger brother.

Count on BA throwing a 77W on the route with its new product...which will make things certainly interesting.

baw716

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: rwsea
Posted 2013-06-25 00:21:10 and read 9804 times.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 45):
How many people backtrack to London from AMS off of that PDX flight? Tomorrow's schedule shows PDX-MSP-LHR is about 40 minutes more time-efficient than PDX-AMS-LHR, but Delta.com offers many more connections PDX-XXX-LHR less time-efficient than PDX-AMS-LHR.

For many (myself included), a connection in Europe is always preferable to a domestic competition. Assuming the schedule was right, I'd much rather connect in AMS than a domestic connection in MSP/DTW/JFK/ATL. Lots of time wasted getting to that midwest/east coast gateway, and generally speaking, the routing takes quite a bit longer. It's also nice to go through customs at your home airport (and in PDX it is VERY easy) rather than risk huge queues and missed connections on the way home.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-06-25 17:17:32 and read 9328 times.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 27):
Call me jaded, but this is how it would go down:

1. DL and AS announce a merger/takeover.
2. Public outcry.
3. WA State reps feign concern and outrage.
4. DL makes "promises" to maintain/enhance SEA/PDX/Alaska services.
5. WA State reps claim victory (for the next election cycle that us lemmings will be voting in).
6. DL waits out the two- or three-year promise period, then begins cutting back, outsourcing, or spinning off various routes/ops in the SEA/PDX/Alaska marketplace, including QX.

Pretty predictable if you ask me.

WA wouldn't be the only State crying foul...you also have AK, OR and maybe even CA. Politics would definitely get involved!

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: jetjack74
Posted 2013-06-29 02:41:29 and read 8523 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 49):
Quoting planesntrains (Reply 27):
Call me jaded, but this is how it would go down:

1. DL and AS announce a merger/takeover.
2. Public outcry.
3. WA State reps feign concern and outrage.
4. DL makes "promises" to maintain/enhance SEA/PDX/Alaska services.
5. WA State reps claim victory (for the next election cycle that us lemmings will be voting in).
6. DL waits out the two- or three-year promise period, then begins cutting back, outsourcing, or spinning off various routes/ops in the SEA/PDX/Alaska marketplace, including QX.

Pretty predictable if you ask me.

WA wouldn't be the only State crying foul...you also have AK, OR and maybe even CA. Politics would definitely get involved!

Yeah, govt outcry, yet these bleeding-heart govt officials knew all the sordid details from the very beginning yet play the "shocked and outraged" card. Their pockets are already being lined while DL and AS are laying the groundworks, probably

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-06-29 06:55:28 and read 8245 times.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 48):
Lots of time wasted getting to that midwest/east coast gateway, and generally speaking, the routing takes quite a bit longer.

One can generalize, or one can accept the fact that there's a more time-efficient efficient published connection than PDX-AMS-LHR.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-06-29 07:22:07 and read 8388 times.

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 9):
I thought that a bit odd as well. Start-up mere weeks from announcing and at the end of the peak travel season seems odd to me. If they don't start it in September they might as well wait until next April. Maybe it'll happen as rumored if they want to begin sooner than later.

That depends on the market if the market is more prone to be a business market then yes it is a good date to start, conversely if the startup is in the summer than I would surmise that the market is more leisure oriented that they are after and the startup date would also puzzle me.

Either way, I am looking forward to connecting through SEA on my monthly trip to the UK and I hope that the loads will sustain the flight through the entire year.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: multimark
Posted 2013-06-29 07:29:24 and read 8394 times.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 48):
For many (myself included), a connection in Europe is always preferable to a domestic competition. Assuming the schedule was right, I'd much rather connect in AMS than a domestic connection in MSP/DTW/JFK/ATL. Lots of time wasted getting to that midwest/east coast gateway, and generally speaking, the routing takes quite a bit longer. It's also nice to go through customs at your home airport (and in PDX it is VERY easy) rather than risk huge queues and missed connections on the way home.

Why wouldn't someone just go SEA-YVR-LHR when there's a choice of three carriers out of YVR and connecting there is easy?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: Prost
Posted 2013-06-29 07:36:35 and read 8345 times.

Because it costs a lot more to fly out of YVR. There's a reason BLI has the flights they do, it isn't to serve the greater Whatcom County public, thats for sure.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-06-29 08:01:19 and read 8297 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 6):
What are OLDs and LODs ?
Quoting Polot (Reply 7):
I don't know what OLD stands for but LOD is Language of Destination. He is referring to FAs.

Have to ask, guys - as a 'part-time' contributor on here - please go easier on the abbreviations?

Time after time on here, recently, I've been unable to contribute to threads because I can't work out what people mean?

I'm referring to things such as:

"PDX build-up (superfluous to DL in SEA)
SEA-XXX where XXX is not a DL hub/focus city nor strategic to DL (perhaps SEA-PHL/AUS/SAT etc)
ANC/FAI-XXX where XXx is a multitude of destinations in AS that might be outsourced to ERA-types.
Spin off QX and replace certain mainline flying with E175's where it makes sense
Reduction of non-SEA/LAX flying
Reduction of Hawaii flying
Of course, the headquarters/back-office people...


Not getting at you personally, Dave, mate - but how are we non-flying, non-aviation 'mere mortals' supposed to decipher stuff like that?

I only ever flew Tiger Moths and Cessnas (most of which didn't even have radios) - then I got married, had kids, and couldn't afford any more flying lessons. PLEASE, you and others, try to make things simpler and less technical for us non-flyers - otherwise, you'll have a lot fewer contributors to threads like this?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-06-29 12:09:13 and read 8019 times.

Quoting Prost (Reply 54):
Because it costs a lot more to fly out of YVR. There's a reason BLI has the flights they do, it isn't to serve the greater Whatcom County public, thats for sure.

BLI still serves a big cachement area in Washington. Even if you live as far south as Everett, it might be faster and certainly easier to get to BLI than SEA during rush hour traffic for example. But yeah, there's a lot of lower B.C. that can get to BLI just as fast as YVR if no border delays.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-06-29 14:30:26 and read 7889 times.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 51):
One can generalize, or one can accept the fact that there's a more time-efficient efficient published connection than PDX-AMS-LHR.

As someone who, you know, has done PDX-AMS-LHR, I would continue to disagree with MIflyer12.

No way I am connecting through JFK/MSP or etc to get there. That adds tons of miles and I'd rather clear customs in PDX than anywhere else. The backtrack AMS-LHR isn't ideal, but wildly better than connecting at a US hub.

Again, PDX-SEA-LHR is one of the few routes I might chose over PDX-AMS-LHR, but I'm surely not going to go via MSP even if it saves 40 minutes. Most of the trouble with the PDX-AMS flight is the timing is bad. It gets into AMS at an awkward time in the morning and misses some connections before the next bank. It's kind of silly to sit in AMS for 3 hours after you took the most efficient means to get there.

SEA-LHR would siphon some PDX-AMS-LHR business, but how many seats that actually is I don't think any of us know (again, I've flown this, will be flying it again soon and it's the only route I'd route NOT PDX-AMS-XXX)

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: multimark
Posted 2013-06-30 23:10:32 and read 7150 times.

Quoting multimark (Reply 53):
Why wouldn't someone just go SEA-YVR-LHR when there's a choice of three carriers out of YVR and connecting there is easy?

Much to the annoyance of Canadians, AC frequently sells US routes like SEA-YVR-LHR cheaper than it sells YVR-LHR (but only marketed to Americans)

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: B727FA
Posted 2013-07-01 12:50:17 and read 6603 times.

Quoting Prost (Reply 1):
Huh. An international routes that won't have the OLDs complaining about the LODs.

      Oh, I freakin' LOVE this! LOL! (They're taking out regular positions for LOD's! Yee-gads!)      

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: jetjack74
Posted 2013-07-01 15:19:59 and read 5940 times.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 59):
Quoting Prost (Reply 1):
Huh. An international routes that won't have the OLDs complaining about the LODs.

      Oh, I freakin' LOVE this! LOL! (They're taking out regular positions for LOD's! Yee-gads!)

No they'll be on this flight complaining about the LODs on KIX and HND.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: B747forever
Posted 2013-07-01 15:29:10 and read 5866 times.

Quoting multimark (Reply 58):


Much to the annoyance of Canadians, AC frequently sells US routes like SEA-YVR-LHR cheaper than it sells YVR-LHR (but only marketed to Americans)

That is because nonstops are almost always more expensive than connecting flights. That is why you will see for instance LHR-JFK more expensive than CDG-LHR-JFK.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-07-01 15:38:16 and read 5800 times.

It's July 1. Where is the announcement?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2013-07-01 16:18:18 and read 5617 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 62):
It's July 1. Where is the announcement?

*crickets*

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: questions
Posted 2013-07-01 18:01:59 and read 5333 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 62):
It's July 1. Where is the announcement?

Ahem. Didn't say which year.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-07-01 18:21:37 and read 5269 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 62):
It's July 1. Where is the announcement?
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 63):
Quoting questions (Reply 64):
Ahem. Didn't say which year.

Silence is golden? Another A.net myth debunked.............

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: toobz
Posted 2013-07-01 18:33:34 and read 5240 times.

I don't know the source..but it sounds like what RA said earlier is definitely in the works. Not today, July 1st, but I am a betting man and I bet it's coming.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: delimit
Posted 2013-07-01 18:39:08 and read 5186 times.



Quoting planesntrains:
DL waits out the two- or three-year promise period, then begins cutting back, outsourcing, or spinning off various routes/ops in the SEA/PDX/Alaska marketplace, including QX.

I see this a lot in these threads. Can someone explain why they think it likely? Are the routes and QX not profitable? If the do, in fact make money, why would DL discontinue them?

[Edited 2013-07-01 18:41:07]

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: YYZAMS
Posted 2013-07-01 20:18:44 and read 4856 times.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but how will SEA-LHR affect Virgin's YVR-LHR? or will DL and Virgin both codeshare on these?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-07-01 20:52:47 and read 4735 times.

Delta has a slot from Alitalia i believe for LHR they are buying or renting, but they dont have it yet atlitalia i think is still using it but the deal has been made. No guarantees its SEA but seems very likely and an announcement has to happen eventually, if thats it. Delta mentioned in their own government filed papers regarding the whole virgin thing their LHR priorities were adding SEA, a second DTW and SLC in that order. Can't see them having trouble filling it with AS FF base is so large in SEA and lots of connection power by AS to fill seats.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2013-07-01 21:12:39 and read 4650 times.

Well...still crickets re the rumour. Gotta love a.net.

However, from a June 20th ress-release-based article on the SEA-Shanghai route:

"Delta's recent partnership with Virgin Atlantic also provides the opportunity to offer new service between Seattle and London-Heathrow, pending government approval."

So it sounds like it is in the works, or at least on the table.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-07-01 21:52:01 and read 4550 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):

OLD also = pain in the ass/lazy.

Or just plain, pain.......you'll see, someday...........

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 27):

Only predictable (perhaps) if there is a "merger" announced between AS and DL, which there hasn't been, so why even mention a non-existent merger on a thread that has nothing to do with it?  
Quoting planesntrains (Reply 34):
That sort of thing. Are you denying that any of that is possible or even perhaps likely over several years after a buyout?

See above.....same reason.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
Time after time on here, recently, I've been unable to contribute to threads because I can't work out what people mean?



I'm referring to things such as:

"PDX build-up (superfluous to DL in SEA)
SEA-XXX where XXX is not a DL hub/focus city nor strategic to DL (perhaps SEA-PHL/AUS/SAT etc)
ANC/FAI-XXX where XXx is a multitude of destinations in AS that might be outsourced to ERA-types.
Spin off QX and replace certain mainline flying with E175's where it makes sense
Reduction of non-SEA/LAX flying
Reduction of Hawaii flying
Of course, the headquarters/back-office people...

Not getting at you personally, Dave, mate - but how are we non-flying, non-aviation 'mere mortals' supposed to decipher stuff like that?

Well, that particular example only consists of simple airline codes and simple airport codes (and one a/c type).....better brush up or you're going to get left in the dust.  

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: audidudi
Posted 2013-07-01 22:30:47 and read 4558 times.

Whatever the reason for the announcement delay, my contact at LHR T5 confirms that DL will be starting SEA-LHR in September this yaer.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-07-01 23:14:09 and read 4346 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
Have to ask, guys - as a 'part-time' contributor on here - please go easier on the abbreviations?

Time after time on here, recently, I've been unable to contribute to threads because I can't work out what people mean?

I'm referring to things such as:

"PDX build-up (superfluous to DL in SEA)
SEA-XXX where XXX is not a DL hub/focus city nor strategic to DL (perhaps SEA-PHL/AUS/SAT etc)
ANC/FAI-XXX where XXx is a multitude of destinations in AS that might be outsourced to ERA-types.
Spin off QX and replace certain mainline flying with E175's where it makes sense
Reduction of non-SEA/LAX flying
Reduction of Hawaii flying
Of course, the headquarters/back-office people...

Not getting at you personally, Dave, mate - but how are we non-flying, non-aviation 'mere mortals' supposed to decipher stuff like that?

If the abbreviation is underlined, (like most airline/airport codes) you should be able to place your cursor over the code and a little rectangular box pops up and tells you what the code stands for.

Example: place your cursor over PDX A small white rectangular box should pop up that says:

Portland - International (PDX / KPDX), USA - Oregon

Placing your cursor over DL shoud produce a box which says

Delta Air Lines (USA)

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: jumpjets
Posted 2013-07-02 03:23:04 and read 4083 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 70):
However, from a June 20th ress-release-based article on the SEA-Shanghai route:

"Delta's recent partnership with Virgin Atlantic also provides the opportunity to offer new service between Seattle and London-Heathrow, pending government approval."

As there is Open skies agreement between the EU and USA why would DL need government approval to start the SEA-LHR service?

Isn't it the commercial questions, such as acquiring a slot [or giving up an existing slot] at LHR, to sort out and away you go.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: MountainFlyer
Posted 2013-07-02 09:49:05 and read 3666 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
Not getting at you personally, Dave, mate - but how are we non-flying, non-aviation 'mere mortals' supposed to decipher stuff like that?

I only ever flew Tiger Moths and Cessnas (most of which didn't even have radios) - then I got married, had kids, and couldn't afford any more flying lessons. PLEASE, you and others, try to make things simpler and less technical for us non-flyers - otherwise, you'll have a lot fewer contributors to threads like this?

I don't mean any offense to you personally, Nav, but this is an aviation forum. Aviation is full of hundreds, maybe thousands, of acronyms and abbreviations. We're talking airport codes, airline codes, navigation aids, equipment names, weather terminology, books, manuals, procedures, personnel titles, etc. etc. etc. Most of the readers/contributors to this forum have enough aviation background to at least grasp the basics of it.

Plain and simple, this is how pilots, flight attendants, dispatchers, controllers, baggage handlers, mechanics, etc. etc. talk.

Also, the original acronyms you were referring to were being used as a pun. Without the use of the acronyms, (OLD and LOD), the pun wouldn't have made any sense.

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-07-02 19:17:26 and read 3037 times.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 29):
AMS-PDX on KLM Cityhopper

That's a bit of a stretch. Perhaps you meant LHR instead of PDX?

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: KWBL
Posted 2013-07-02 21:43:15 and read 2796 times.

I've done PDX-AMS-LCY....way better than Heathrow and backtracking is not that bad

Topic: RE: Rumor: July 1st, DL SEA-LHR Announcement
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2013-07-03 04:48:51 and read 2481 times.

While SEA-LHR is a matter of when, not if....DL isn't likey to make an announcement of such during 4th of July week.


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