Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5803103/

Topic: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-06-28 06:46:05 and read 10115 times.

Saw an interview last year, I think, where Neeleman was interested in this.

TAP is a bit of an oddball? Does it fit with Azul?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/neelem...sted-partnering-buy-133728452.html

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: 0NEWAIR0
Posted 2013-06-28 06:52:18 and read 10094 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Saw an interview last year, I think, where Neeleman was interested in this.

The interview you saw last year probably said Neeleman was NOT interested in this. He didn't want anything to do with TAP untill recently.

Neeleman was very good to me. I hope he can pull this off! It's all very interesting given the fact that he was essentially pushed out of jetBlue by the board after that Service collapse in 2007.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-06-28 07:02:53 and read 10013 times.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 1):

The interview you saw last year probably said Neeleman was NOT interested in this. He didn't want anything to do with TAP untill recently.

Never heard of anything about TAP before this. Neeleman said he wished to takeover B6 in the interview last year. It was vimeo I think.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 1):
Neeleman was very good to me. I hope he can pull this off! It's all very interesting given the fact that he was essentially pushed out of jetBlue by the board after that Service collapse in 2007.

Agreed. He got the short end of the stick.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2013-06-28 07:21:11 and read 9879 times.

JBLU is up over 6% on this news.

Very interesting. I wonder how the U.S. government would look at a hostile bid from foreign investors. I would think that U.S.-based investors would need to own a majority share of the entity (similar to the VX fiasco).

Personally, I'd like to see B6 continue to be an independent company. They have a great thing going, and the ROIC is finally moving in the right direction. However, if the shareholders get a nice offer....goodbye independence!

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: 0NEWAIR0
Posted 2013-06-28 07:32:22 and read 9786 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Neeleman said he wished to takeover B6 in the interview last year. It was vimeo I think.

Ohh, really? I didn't hear about that. All I heard was that he(/Azul) was approached about buying TAP and said no.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-06-28 08:48:50 and read 9506 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 3):

JBLU is up over 6% on this news.

Very interesting. I wonder how the U.S. government would look at a hostile bid from foreign investors.

Neeleman is from Utah. No mention of foreign investors.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 4):
Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Neeleman said he wished to takeover B6 in the interview last year. It was vimeo I think.

Ohh, really? I didn't hear about that. All I heard was that he(/Azul) was approached about buying TAP and said no.

He also trashed the current CEO, who he feels was involved in his demise at B6. At the time I took it as sour grapes...and it may still be. He has started 3 airlines that I am aware of, so it's not crazy for him to buy B6 + they are not highly priced.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: apodino
Posted 2013-06-28 09:23:11 and read 9383 times.

Wasn't the reason Neeleman was forced out in the first place was because after the airline became well established they started to have some noteable operations meltdowns....and thus the BOD decided new leadership was needed. This is totally different than the Mens Wearhouse brouhaha that has been happening of late. Neeleman did a good job of starting the airline and making it successful, which is what he is good at. JetBlue is an extremely well run airline these days, so I don't think this would be a good thing, and personally if I was a shareholder I would actually sell on this news.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-06-28 09:25:50 and read 9371 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
No mention of foreign investors.

Actually, it was mentioned in another thread started after yours:

"Brazilian Gov And Blue Want To Buy TAP And JetBlu (by Alpage Jun 28 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Alpage (Thread starter):
I read recently that the Brazilian airline Azul is joining forces with the Brazilian state bank BNDES to purchase the Portuguese TAP and American JetBlue.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado...comprar-aereas-tap-e-jetblue.shtml

Azul's Owner David Neeleman, who also started JetBlue, will come with 5% of the deal followed by the Government bank with 20%. Private funds will raise the remaining 75%. If the deal comes through the company will have a fleet of 351 planes almost matching LATAM 439 planes (total and orders).

BNDES declined to comment about these negotiations.

According to the newspaper Folha de Sao Paulo, the Government's participation was driven by strategic reasons and because President Dilma approves Neelemans business model which basically broke the monopoly created by TAM and Gol with his company Azul.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: richierich
Posted 2013-06-28 09:33:28 and read 9314 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
Neeleman is from Utah. No mention of foreign investors.

FWIW, Neeleman was born in Brazil and raised in Utah. Last I knew, he held dual citizenship from the US and Brazil...

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
He also trashed the current CEO, who he feels was involved in his demise at B6.

Current CEO Dave Barger was JetBlue's COO at the time of the 2007 service meltdown, so on the surface it may seem a little odd that Neeleman took the fall and not Barger. However, Barger has plenty of prior experience given his CO background at EWR, so keeping him was an easy decision, not to mention the Jetblue Board was probably not happy with the direction of airline and recent decisions made by Neeleman. It's political at the top, and Neeleman was not in favor for several reasons prior to the 2007 collapse of operations.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: AirDance
Posted 2013-06-28 09:37:49 and read 9289 times.

If this does end up being true and goes through, maybe Neeleman will start flying those E190s to the Midwest cities that were originally posted in the possible destinations JetBlue would serve after launch.


"JetBlue is considering service to an additional 38 cities including: Atlanta; Boston; Canton/Akron; Charleston, SC; Charleston, WV; Charlotte, NC; Chicago; Cincinnati; Cleveland; Columbia, SC; Columbus, OH; Dallas/Fort Worth; Dayton; Denver; Flint; Ft. Myers; Grand Rapids, MI; Greensboro; Greenville/Spartanburg; Houston; Indianapolis; Jacksonville, FL; Louisville; Memphis; Milwaukee; Minneapolis/St Paul; Nashville; New Orleans; Norfolk; Orlando; Pittsburgh; Portland, ME; Raleigh/Durham; Richmond; Salt Lake City; Savannah; Washington, DC; and, West Palm Beach."

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: 0NEWAIR0
Posted 2013-06-28 09:38:28 and read 9274 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
He also trashed the current CEO, who he feels was involved in his demise at B6.

Yes, he does not like Barger at all.

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
Wasn't the reason Neeleman was forced out in the first place was because after the airline became well established they started to have some noteable operations meltdowns....and thus the BOD decided new leadership was needed.

Barger, in my opinion, should have been the one to go in 2007. After all, day to day operations are generally the responsibility of the COO (Barger), not the CEO (Neeleman) who is generally responsible for strategic planning and activities that do not deal directly with day to day operations.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-06-28 10:11:18 and read 9142 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
Wasn't the reason Neeleman was forced out in the first place was because after the airline became well established they started to have some noteable operations meltdowns....and thus the BOD decided new leadership was needed.
Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
He also trashed the current CEO, who he feels was involved in his demise at B6.

Yes, he does not like Barger at all.
Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 10):
Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
Wasn't the reason Neeleman was forced out in the first place was because after the airline became well established they started to have some noteable operations meltdowns....and thus the BOD decided new leadership was needed.

Barger, in my opinion, should have been the one to go in 2007. After all, day to day operations are generally the responsibility of the COO (Barger), not the CEO (Neeleman) who is generally responsible for strategic planning and activities that do not deal directly with day to day operations.

I can understand Neeleman's irritation at being forced out of the airline he founded while taking the fall for an operations lapse and then the head of ops getting his job. OTOH, I can't say anything bad about the job Barger has done. AirTran was supposedly so lacking in viability that their only option was to be sold. F9 and VX are on life support. G4/NK have done better than B6, but they are in a completely different niche. So, it's hard to fault Barger.

Quoting richierich (Reply 8):
Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
Neeleman is from Utah. No mention of foreign investors.

FWIW, Neeleman was born in Brazil and raised in Utah. Last I knew, he held dual citizenship from the US and Brazil...

I did not know that and wouldn't have guessed it.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: 0NEWAIR0
Posted 2013-06-28 10:28:46 and read 9060 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
AirTran was supposedly so lacking in viability that their only option was to be sold.

There was nothing significantly bad about AirTran's viability. AirTran was prepping for sale many years before SWA bought them. They were even prepping for sale before they tried to acquire Midwest - hoping a deal would make them a more attractive for acquistion.

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
OTOH, I can't say anything bad about the job Barger has done.
Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
So, it's hard to fault Barger.

True, jetBlue is doing well these days but that shouldn't absolve Barger from blame for that collapse in service.

Quoting richierich (Reply 8):
It's political at the top, and Neeleman was not in favor for several reasons prior to the 2007 collapse of operations.

True. It was a very political fight and Barger had the most board support.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-06-28 10:43:40 and read 8999 times.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intel...ut-isnt-on-the-cards/?mod=yahoo_hs

Neeleman is now denying that he said he would set up a "$3.2 billion investment fund to purchase both JetBlue and TAP". That's an interestingly detailed mistake.

His denial is interesting: "Mr. Neeleman, who stepped down as chairman of JetBlue in 2008 to start Azul, said the report was wrong, and that he’s never discussed the possibility of purchasing JetBlue with the Brazilian government." He doesn't deny he wants to purchase B6, he denies he discussed it with the Brazilian government...and why would he discuss it with them anyway?

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 12):
There was nothing significantly bad about AirTran's viability.

That's why I said supposedly. I think AirTran would have been fine, but the company's position was that they were out of options and were at best breakeven. I think they were just losing tons of money in MKE which was a self-imposed choice.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: jetblue1058
Posted 2013-06-28 11:50:25 and read 8773 times.

I think Barger has made the airline a much more stable and profitable company. Neeleman is a great innovator and he likes building companies. In 06 before the 07 meltdown B6 was expanding rapidly and was growing to fast to handle, almost put the airline out of business. Neeleman is a great guy and I do like him, I don't have any problems with Barger either.
Maybe Azul could buy the large amount of JetBlue ownership off of Lufthansa?

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-06-28 14:11:01 and read 7886 times.

It could be an interesting development - if it's true. If TAP was in it too, a Portuguese-speaking alliance of some sort, that would make it even more interesting! 

We could see B6 starting long-haul routes to GRU / GIG from the Northeast ... using TAP aircraft / slots if necessary. Azul would provide the Brazillian backbone for TAP and B6 ... Jetblue would provide the US backbone for TAP, and TAP will use its slots in Brazil and long haul aircrafts to launch routes like BOS-LIS, BOS-GRU, JFK-GIG, etc ...

In future, Azul may even launch its own routes to Jetblue's FLL / MCO hubs from Manaus, Belem, etc ... or Jetblue could launch routes to Salvador, Recife, etc from Florida using its NEOs.


Here is a map of the new long-haul routes ...   

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-06-28 15:50:40 and read 7107 times.

When does openskies take effect between US-Brasil? Is it 2015? No need for slots at that point

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: HNL
Posted 2013-06-28 21:18:56 and read 5580 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 16):

When does openskies take effect between US-Brasil? Is it 2015? No need for slots at that point

Slots will still be necessary at GRU/GIG(?) post open skies.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2013-06-28 22:28:16 and read 5309 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 16):
Slots will still be necessary at GRU/GIG(?) post open skies.

At GRU, yes. GIG, on the other hand, is not slot-restricted.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: Pyrex
Posted 2013-06-28 22:38:23 and read 5268 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Agreed. He got the short end of the stick.

As someone who today got stranded at JFK because JBLU was so scared of some light drizzle that might be potentially coming their way that they canceled or severely delayed all their flights, ruining my weekend, I say the passengers got the short end of the stick.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-06-29 05:00:49 and read 4344 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 15):
We could see B6 starting long-haul routes to GRU / GIG from the Northeast ... using TAP aircraft / slots if necessary. Azul would provide the Brazillian backbone for TAP and B6 ... Jetblue would provide the US backbone for TAP, and TAP will use its slots in Brazil and long haul aircrafts to launch routes like BOS-LIS, BOS-GRU, JFK-GIG, etc ...

You're reading way too much into it   Which is not to say that there aren't advantages to an alliance like this. But for starters, Azul's hub is in VCP not GRU. Secondly, I would bet on BOS/PVD-PDL service before BOS-LIS, especialy since you can do that with an A320 or A321NEO. Third, if B6 is ever going to enter the GRU/GIG markets I would expect it to be from FLL, not from BOS. The biggest advantage of an alliance like this would be to give TP and *A feed in Brazil but the hub situation would have to be resolved.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-06-29 06:34:21 and read 4002 times.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
As someone who today got stranded at JFK because JBLU was so scared of some light drizzle that might be potentially coming their way that they canceled or severely delayed all their flights, ruining my weekend, I say the passengers got the short end of the stick.

JetBlue didnt severely delay your flights at all. JFK TMU (traffic management) delayed B6 flights and every other airlines flights every day this week by 1.5-5 hours.

Our third world air traffic management system in the US is shining brightly here.

The mere possibility of afternoon tstorms every day this week was what caused these delays. Never mind the fact that most of this weather never materialized.

You, as an a.netter should know better than to blame B6 for this

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: Pyrex
Posted 2013-06-29 11:51:08 and read 3749 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Our third world air traffic management system in the US is shining brightly here.

The mere possibility of afternoon tstorms every day this week was what caused these delays. Never mind the fact that most of this weather never materialized.

You, as an a.netter should know better than to blame B6 for this

JBLU might not be responsible for the delays in JFK in general (the third-world air traffic control system is indeed the responsible - time for another Reagan). However, it seems JBLU is responsible for canceling all the flights to Martha's Vineyard (where I was going) and alleging bad weather at the destination, since Cape Air somehow managed to keep flying into the island with dinky little Cessna 402s.

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KMVY/arrivals/airline

More likely than not, JBLU started tactically canceling flights to reduce the total number of departure slots they would require out of JFK and alleging it was weather related so they would avoid having to pay people anything (they wouldn't even pay me a subway ticket back to the city, let alone the Airtrain rip-off).

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-06-30 01:39:47 and read 3451 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
F9 and VX are on life support.

Technically only F9 is on life-support; VX is the equivalent of a zombie. It keeps stubbornly, inexplicably staying alive no matter how many bullets you put in it. Just waiting for someone to lop the head off it once and for all.  

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: Andy33
Posted 2013-06-30 02:03:42 and read 3434 times.

I must have missed something - has anyone explained how one company could own both TAP and JetBlue at the same time given that both the US and EU have rules prohibiting majority foreign ownership?

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2013-06-30 12:55:46 and read 3215 times.

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 24):

I must have missed something - has anyone explained how one company could own both TAP and JetBlue at the same time given that both the US and EU have rules prohibiting majority foreign ownership?

Well, just like LAN is able to own TAM and LAN Argentina... by owning them de facto, but not de jure.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-06-30 14:25:55 and read 3107 times.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
More likely than not, JBLU started tactically canceling flights to reduce the total number of departure slots they would require out of JFK and alleging it was weather related so they would avoid having to pay people anything (they wouldn't even pay me a subway ticket back to the city, let alone the Airtrain rip-off).

You got it. ATC delays flights for weather. They pass weather cancellations onto you. No money from ATC to JBU, no money from JBU to you.

Shortest flights get cancelled first to preserve the operation.

2 hour + delays again today for JFK LGA and EWR. PHL too. Still no signifcant weather.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: sancho99504
Posted 2013-06-30 14:47:08 and read 3114 times.

Generally when huge operational meltdowns happen, both CEO and COO are held accountable and usually their subordinates are the ones who get canned because of it, however in this case, Neeleman was ousted and Barger promoted. I hate politics for this very reason.


I think one major problem with jetBlue is their unwillingness to take big risks anymore. They're taking small, calculated low risk moves. They have a unique opportunity to bring their lower fare product to many markets in the midwest. I agree that trying to move somone DSM-JFK-ORD isn't smart nor profitable, but there are several midwest cities which are/were hubs that continue to lose service and MEM would make a perfect hub for jetBlue. The other problem they've had in the midwest cities they've started and pulled down or dropped entirely is their lack of marketing. If know one knows you fly to their city, they won't fly on your airline. I used to live in Chicago, before Barger, B6 marketing in the Chicago area was there, albeit very limited. After Barger, there are ZERO billboards there. I used to see billboards near RIC, SEA, PHX, LAS, SLC, etc. But not anymore.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
time for another Reagan

Our 3rd world system is not the fault of the ATC controllers which is who Reagan fired. Our 3rd world problems stem from the FAA not appropriating the money that they get from the airlines for NextGen into putting NextGen live. Once NextGen goes live, many of our problems will decrease.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-06-30 15:58:54 and read 3055 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
You're reading way too much into it   Which is not to say that there aren't advantages to an alliance like this. But for starters, Azul's hub is in VCP not GRU. Secondly, I would bet on BOS/PVD-PDL service before BOS-LIS, especialy since you can do that with an A320 or A321NEO.

I think they would leave those flights to SATA. TAP already codeshares on the SATA routes from BOS unless of course SATA is rolled into this alliance in some way as well.

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 27):
MEM would make a perfect hub for jetBlue

Facility wise yes but market wise absolutely not. MCI would have been better but you need to look at B6 as AS and not a legacy carrier.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-07-01 06:20:32 and read 2797 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 28):
I think they would leave those flights to SATA. TAP already codeshares on the SATA routes from BOS unless of course SATA is rolled into this alliance in some way as well.

SATA is on life support and as an airline it's not anywhere near the level of a TP or B6. If B6 and TP were part of the same parent company I doubt very much that they would give that market to SATA. In fact at this point I'd be surprised if SATA's A310's will be around for much longer. No A310's = no flights to the US.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-07-03 06:23:50 and read 2439 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):

They made money in 2012. http://www.sata.pt/en/press-releases...ies-register-positive-results-2012

It looks like they lose or gain thousands of euros each year. I sure wouldn't invest in them by any means!

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-07-03 06:36:00 and read 2421 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
He also trashed the current CEO, who he feels was involved in his demise at B6. At the time I took it as sour grapes...and it may still be. He has started 3 airlines that I am aware of, so it's not crazy for him to buy B6 + they are not highly priced.

Anyone have a link to this video? Tried searching for it but couldn't find it.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: richierich
Posted 2013-07-03 06:57:39 and read 2389 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
I did not know that and wouldn't have guessed it.

Fact: Neeleman spoke perfect Portugese even before moving to Brazil and starting Azul. I believe he spent his two year Mormon mission working in the country of his birth even though his family was well entrenched in the SLC area at the time.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 12):
True. It was a very political fight and Barger had the most board support.

Neeleman is a free-thinker and people either love him or dislike him for that. For my money, the man is a hard-working genius. It's takes a lot to start one successful airline but to have a leading role in starting three or four successful airlines is pretty much unheard of.

The Board prefers long-term stability and, most importantly, consistent results. I guess they felt Barger was the safer choice and, all things considered, B6 has pretty much delivered under his stewardship. What happened happened, and Neeleman is a very wealthy man. but I didn't like the way he was pushed out. Doesn't seem the right way to honor a person who literally started the company from scratch.

Quoting jetblue1058 (Reply 14):
I think Barger has made the airline a much more stable and profitable company.

I don't know that Jetblue could have gone into the direction that it has if Neeleman was still CEO (i.e., premium cabins, push for business passengers, etc.)

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
As someone who today got stranded at JFK because JBLU was so scared of some light drizzle that might be potentially coming their way that they canceled or severely delayed all their flights, ruining my weekend, I say the passengers got the short end of the stick.

Better than the alternative. Back in February 2007, you would have been stuck a week! Seriously, that was one of the worst meltdowns I have ever seen from any airline. Ever. No wonder JetBlue airs on the side of caution now.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: cloudboy
Posted 2013-07-03 12:42:39 and read 2228 times.

When JetBlue was young, the industry and conventional airline investors didn't really give them the credit they deserved for a new idea. Neelman really brought in a fresh perspective and tried to bring in a new approach to running an airline. As that airline grew people started taking notice, and suddenly everyone was interested in JetBlue. But they had a real hard time reconciling their conventional airline "wisdom" to B6 practices.

B6 did go through some struggles with growth, and they were in particularly bad spot when the 2007 blizzard hit. But B6 was not the only one hit hard, and other airlines have since been hit just as hard. Only they have been big enough to be able to compensate for that.

What happened as a result of that is that the board had now started thinking of itself as a conventional airline, and investor demand decried that it had to be run in a conventional manner despite the fact that it was showing profitability again. And so they outsted the driver of non conventional thinking and replaced him with conventional wisdom.

Now we see JetBlue slowly becoming a traditional carrier - moving to two class service, developing a more hub and spoke type of network, and slowly dipping it's toes into the "purchased extras" revenue model.

And that is what is probably bugging Neelman now. Investors and most conventional industry insiders can't seem to see with any long distance vision, and Neelman sees where JetBlue could be moving, but isnt.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2013-07-03 12:56:37 and read 2217 times.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
JBLU might not be responsible for the delays in JFK in general (the third-world air traffic control system is indeed the responsible - time for another Reagan). However, it seems JBLU is responsible for canceling all the flights to Martha's Vineyard (where I was going) and alleging bad weather at the destination, since Cape Air somehow managed to keep flying into the island with dinky little Cessna 402s.

Or....since MVY's runway distance is only 5500' long and it being either contaminated or wet, the distances were prohibiting operations there...just another thing to think of. A Cessna 402 takes considerable less runway than an E190.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2013-07-03 18:20:23 and read 2084 times.

Quoting richierich (Reply 32):
Fact: Neeleman spoke perfect Portugese even before moving to Brazil and starting Azul.

That's not a fact. He didn't speak perfect Portuguese then, neither does he now. It's gotten a lot better though.

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2013-07-03 19:02:41 and read 2055 times.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 33):
Now we see JetBlue slowly becoming a traditional carrier - moving to two class service, developing a more hub and spoke type of network, and slowly dipping it's toes into the "purchased extras" revenue model.

I don't see JetBlue becoming a traditional carrier. You need to take into the consideration the way the US market has changed since 2000 from both a product/brand perspective, and a market perspective. Product-wise, B6's "purchased extras" roster is only based on purchasing value. On B6, first bag is free, free snacks and drinks, and if you want to spend $65 extra on your JFKLAX for extra space - you can. A very consistent product - versus the hodgepodge at traditional carriers. I agree that introducing a second class on niche routes

I also don't see how they are evolving to a hub and spoke network. Look at B6's recent growth strategy - invading BOS (how do you have a hub and spoke there?), shifting JFK to niche domestic and international, fighting for DCA slots, and targeting the high O&D FLL-Carbbean/South America. All growth is targeting O&D.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 33):
And that is what is probably bugging Neelman now. Investors and most conventional industry insiders can't seem to see with any long distance vision, and Neelman sees where JetBlue could be moving, but isnt.

I agree the long distance vision is blurry. But I also think B6 is operating in a much different world today than in 2000, and the board/mgmt has learned that they need to be opportunistic. JFK was maxed out, DCA slots were made available, BOS was being neglected by WN and no legacy was exactly fighting for it, and wisely is capitalizing on its FLL brand awareness and strength (and a product which resonates with foreign travelers).

Topic: RE: B6 Founder Looking To Buy B6...or TAP?
Username: richierich
Posted 2013-07-04 06:51:17 and read 1873 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 35):
That's not a fact. He didn't speak perfect Portuguese then, neither does he now. It's gotten a lot better though.

I've heard him speak Portugese but seeing that I don't know the language, I can't judge how well he speaks it. I should have left out "perfect".


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/