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Topic: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: N908AW
Posted 2013-07-02 16:24:51 and read 12724 times.

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...t-attendant-spilled-hot-coffee-her

This sounded way too much like another lawsuit involving lawsuits and spilled coffee if you ask me.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: srbmod
Posted 2013-07-02 16:53:26 and read 12610 times.

I can't even remember the last time I've seen F/As on a Delta flight coming around with coffee pots, as I'm used to seeing them come down the aisle with a tray full of cups of coffee (even in First Class). I guess it's different on international flights?

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-07-02 16:59:50 and read 12580 times.

Quoting N908AW (Thread starter):

This sounded way too much like another lawsuit involving lawsuits and spilled coffee if you ask me.

Oh boy, here we go.

The McDonald's coffee suit was very legitimate. The lady in that case suffered third-degree burns on her legs. Coffee should never be that hot.

Also, the article states the lawsuit in this case was filed because the statute of limitations (2 years) for doing so was about to expire, and they hadn't yet reached a settlement with Delta's insurance company.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-07-02 17:00:29 and read 12569 times.

Flashback to the highly publicized lawsuit of a customer suing McDonald's for serving their coffee hot. Sounds like someone trying to make an easy dollar.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: N908AW
Posted 2013-07-02 17:14:14 and read 12508 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
Oh boy, here we go.

The McDonald's coffee suit was very legitimate. The lady in that case suffered third-degree burns on her legs. Coffee should never be that hot.

You're right. I'm saying the narrative of this lawsuit seems to mimic that.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-07-02 17:37:26 and read 12414 times.

Quoting N908AW (Reply 4):

You're right. I'm saying the narrative of this lawsuit seems to mimic that.

Ah, gotcha.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2013-07-02 17:54:51 and read 12301 times.

Another recent lawsuit...

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...00k-over-spilled-tea-during-flight

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2013-07-02 18:26:01 and read 12157 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
The McDonald's coffee suit was very legitimate. The lady in that case suffered third-degree burns on her legs. Coffee should never be that hot.

Only a total moron would put a cup full of hot liquid between her legs sitting in what technically constitutes a confined space and then try to remove the lid. Frankly I don't see what's legitimate about people being rewarded for their laziness and stupidity.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-07-02 19:31:39 and read 11904 times.

Sigh... just like with every lawsuit, you may have something legitimate then you throw in BS like "emotional distress" and ask $170,000. Just for that I hope she loses, or just gets whatever the medical bill was if it really was DL's fault. Makes my blood boil to see crappy, exaggerated lawsuits (yeah, I know you set the price high and settle for less, but it still annoys me in principle)

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2013-07-02 19:50:02 and read 11827 times.

Its frivolous lawsuits like this that waste taxpayer dollars in court. Disgusting.

It appears to me that DL's insurance believe this to be a bogus lawsuit. If it was a result of negligence then I would imagine the plaintiff would have filed the suit before the 2 year SOL deadline or DL would have settled some sort of deal. IMO they tried to get what they wanted for 2 years and now her attorney decided to give it a shot in court. Oh why not?

Obviously the details are not readily available so we cannot pass judgement. Still, I am inclined to view this as another lame attempt to turn an unfortunate accident into an "easy" way to make money.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: sancho99504
Posted 2013-07-02 19:50:18 and read 11822 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):

The dimwit should have never put a styrofoam cup full of hot coffee between her legs. Period.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-07-02 21:16:37 and read 11615 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):

She is not suing for $170,000. That is just what the Montreal convention, which governs international flights for torts, allows her to sue for. Specifically, it allows passengers to $100,000 SDR (special drawing rights) which is a currency that is set by international monetary fund that allows for easy currency conversion at current rates.

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 9):

The lawsuit was only because Delta would not settle prior to the time period set by the statutes of limitation which was about to expire.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-07-02 22:40:01 and read 11412 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 11):
She is not suing for $170,000. That is just what the Montreal convention, which governs international flights for torts, allows her to sue for. Specifically, it allows passengers to $100,000 SDR (special drawing rights) which is a currency that is set by international monetary fund that allows for easy currency conversion at current rates.

Forgive me, very tired today   I still think "emotional distress" is way overused

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: blue100
Posted 2013-07-03 00:37:34 and read 11173 times.

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 10):
The dimwit should have never put a styrofoam cup full of hot coffee between her legs. Period.

And if the person had accidentally spilled the coffee on their hands or a different part of their body, they'd still likely get 3rd degree burns. You can claim that it wasn't wise to place the coffee where it was but it doesn't change the fact that the coffee should not have been as hot as it was. People spill items all the time but they don't usually get burns of that magnitude from spilling a hot beverage...

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: oldeuropean
Posted 2013-07-03 00:39:55 and read 11161 times.

... only in the USA.  

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Giancavia
Posted 2013-07-03 00:44:43 and read 11142 times.

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 10):
The dimwit should have never put a styrofoam cup full of hot coffee between her legs. Period.

Indeed, But there will always be apologists for Grade A Morons.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-07-03 01:04:44 and read 11093 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 11):
She is not suing for $170,000. That is just what the Montreal convention, which governs international flights for torts, allows her to sue for. Specifically, it allows passengers to $100,000 SDR (special drawing rights) which is a currency that is set by international monetary fund that allows for easy currency conversion at current rates.

   Someone has taken an Aviation Law course!

Because the ticket is an international routing, it entitles her a claim up to, but not exceeding 100,000 credits / US$170,000. If this were a domestic segment or if she were able to successfully argue gross negligence on an international flight (which wouldn't really be applicable in this scenario), she could sue for any amount she pleased. The Montreal Convention stipulates that claims for compensation are capped, but as flightsimmer points out, she could be suing for any amount up to and including that amount -- US$170,000.

If I had to guess, she is suing for that amount or something close to it. Otherwise I would assume the carrier would have just settled and moved on.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 14):
... only in the USA.

I don't think stereotyping counts as a valid contribution to this topic, particularly when it isn't entirely true. The situation is governed under international law. Would someone from another country be as likely to sue for this reason? Maybe not. But if legitimate injuries were suffered as a result and required medical treatment, regardless of one's nationality I would assume anyone would attempt to seek compensation for damages -- at the very least to cover the costs of medical treatment and any cost incurred thereafter (e.g. unable to work).

So in my opinion, not just in the USA...

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: goosebayguy
Posted 2013-07-03 04:11:58 and read 10469 times.

If I ever get a coffee on board I put it on the fold down table. Its sheer stupidity to place it on your legs because we all know this will be the result.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: cjg225
Posted 2013-07-03 05:13:48 and read 9866 times.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 17):
If I ever get a coffee on board I put it on the fold down table. Its sheer stupidity to place it on your legs because we all know this will be the result.

That didn't happen here, apparently.

The people referencing a cup of coffee between someone's legs is an (in)famous tort case in the USA from the early 90s. A woman got a cup of coffee at McDonald's and was in her nephew's (or grandson's or something like that) sports car. The car didn't have a cup holder so she held the coffee between her legs and tried to remove the top. When she did, it spilled and burned her.

Here, apparently, a flight attendant allegedly spilled coffee from a pot onto the claimant.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: bueb0g
Posted 2013-07-03 05:14:54 and read 9848 times.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 14):
... only in the USA.  

It's under an international convention so no, not only in the USA. Suing for receiving burns on a flight and then not receiving a settlement from the airline for 2 years seems like a decent reason to file suit to me.

There are some truly silly lawsuits in US courts. This isn't one of them.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 17):
If I ever get a coffee on board I put it on the fold down table. Its sheer stupidity to place it on your legs because we all know this will be the result.

Erm... She didn't? The FA spilled it on her, she didn't put it between her legs, that was a different case involving McDonalds that people are talking about.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: B735
Posted 2013-07-03 06:00:19 and read 9448 times.

Quote:
The lawsuit alleges the flight attendant was negligent in spilling the coffee on Potts, who was seated on the aisle when the flight attendant delivered the coffee to her approximately 45 minutes before the end of the flight, Thompson said. Potts was offered ice and napkins on the flight and bought burn cream after landing.

Which airline would be service coffee 45 minutes before landing after a long trans atlantic flight - unless she was in business class of course?! I would imagine that the crew would be busy preparing the cabin for landing, not serving coffee...

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: ArmitageShanks
Posted 2013-07-03 06:55:24 and read 8923 times.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 18):
When she did, it spilled and burned her.

And she almost died from the burns- They were that bad. And her case wasn't just about getting money- it was about punishing McDonalds for ignoring the fact their coffee was burning people all over the country when they knew it was being improperly served at almost 200 degrees. The jury did give some of the blame to the lady just so you know.

There's a really good documentary called "Hot Coffee" that people in this thread should watch about tort reform in the USA and the implications of blindly limiting rewards for cases.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Andy33
Posted 2013-07-03 07:00:15 and read 8859 times.

Quoting B735 (Reply 20):
Which airline would be service coffee 45 minutes before landing after a long trans atlantic flight - unless she was in business class of course?! I would imagine that the crew would be busy preparing the cabin for landing, not serving coffee...

It's an overnight flight, so this would be the tail end of the breakfast service.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: sancho99504
Posted 2013-07-03 07:19:24 and read 8672 times.

I have never understood why people file lawsuits 2 years or later down the line.

Quoting blue100 (Reply 13):

Dump a pot of coffee on you from your home coffee pot and let me know how you don't get burned by it. Those coffee cups McDonald's used to use were clearly marked "caution: contents may be extremely hot" all over the cups. With your logic, next time I go to 7/11 and get a slurpee, I should sue and get compensation for getting brain freeze, because apparently it was served way too cold.  

Everyone should use caution when dealing hot beverages or hot food.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2013-07-03 07:25:32 and read 8596 times.

Quoting N908AW (Thread starter):
This sounded way too much like another lawsuit involving lawsuits and spilled coffee if you ask me.

Yep, another BS lawsuit from one of the lobbies inside the beltway that is destoying the U.S. as we know it: http://www.justice.org/cps/rde/xchg/justice/hs.xsl/default.htm Ambulance Chasing at it's finest! I can just see Danny DeVito in that hospital room (The Rainmaker with Matt Damon 1997) "We're going to get you a planeload of $$$!" from DL.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: silentbob
Posted 2013-07-03 08:13:47 and read 8465 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
Coffee should never be that hot.

The National Coffee Association disagrees with you and McD's practices were in step with their suggested serving guidelines.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: OA412
Posted 2013-07-03 08:14:00 and read 8485 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
The McDonald's coffee suit was very legitimate. The lady in that case suffered third-degree burns on her legs. Coffee should never be that hot.

  

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 7):
Only a total moron would put a cup full of hot liquid between her legs sitting in what technically constitutes a confined space and then try to remove the lid. Frankly I don't see what's legitimate about people being rewarded for their laziness and stupidity.
Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 10):
The dimwit should have never put a styrofoam cup full of hot coffee between her legs. Period.

Sigh. The coffee should not have been served that hot. McDonald's was requiring its franchisees to serve it at temperatures higher than most other establishments.

Stella Liebeck asked McDonald's for just $20,000 to cover her expenses. That's all she wanted. It was only after they repeatedly refused to settle that the case went to trial. Of course, that hasn't stopped people from claiming, as you both do, that she was rewarded for her stupidity. Nor has it stopped the media and others from distorting the story to push for tort reform. McDonald's could have settled this for a nominal sum, and they chose not too even though they were clearly serving their coffee at overly high temperatures. Instead, they refused and the lawsuit followed.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: sancho99504
Posted 2013-07-03 08:28:17 and read 8314 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 26):

She should have never put a cup of hot coffee between her legs. It is not the cash award that bothers me, nor it going to trial. She should have never put a styrofoam cup full of hot coffee between her legs. She sued because she was irresponsible, which I don't feel McDonald's should have ever been held libel.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: art
Posted 2013-07-03 08:32:30 and read 8297 times.

The article says: "a male flight attendant spilled hot coffee on the woman’s lap".

Does the passenger need to prove negligence by the flight attendant under the international convention or is there no fault compensation for injury sustained accidentally as a passenger (eg where an FA trips / where there is unexpected turbulence etc)?

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-07-03 09:02:16 and read 7977 times.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 14):
only in the USA.

You are completely correct. And it's very very sad.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: flymd1976
Posted 2013-07-03 09:36:51 and read 7549 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):


Sound like a lawyer to me. Exactly how hot is too hot for a "hot" drink counselor?. When does a hot drink become too hot? When does a "hot" drink become not hot enough? These people sound like Goldie Locks complaining about porridge. For gods sake it seems as though the world and all of it's inhabitants have gone mad!!!

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-07-03 09:37:17 and read 7561 times.

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 27):
She sued because she was irresponsible, which I don't feel McDonald's should have ever been held libel.

That McDonald's franchisee had been warned many times about the temperature of their coffee by McDonald's Quality Control themselves. Apparently, with a "bottomless cup" policy, that franchisee figured that if the coffee was very hot, the customer could not finish a cup in the time it took to eat a meal, so they would never have to spring for a second cup.

While this monitoring was going on ... the famous incident occurred. The woman in question was only asking to have her medical expenses covered, the courts decided she deserved more.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: mbmbos
Posted 2013-07-03 09:39:23 and read 7525 times.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 7):
Only a total moron would put a cup full of hot liquid between her legs sitting in what technically constitutes a confined space and then try to remove the lid. Frankly I don't see what's legitimate about people being rewarded for their laziness and stupidity.

Coffee should not cause third degree burns and require two years worth of skin grafting.

And it's pretty common for people will temporarily put a cup of coffee between their knees. It may not be the smartest move in the world but it shouldn't result in two years worth of skin grafting.

I would hardly call her a "total moron."

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: AustinAllison
Posted 2013-07-03 10:29:05 and read 6979 times.

Coffee brew temperatures of close to 200 degrees are not uncommon. McDonald's should not be liable for a spill that results in burns, because they did not directly or indirectly cause the spill. If they physically threw the coffee on her, that is a different story, but the woman is responsible for the spill that resulted in the burns because she was the one who was irresponsible with the coffee. Coffee is hot people. Don't play with it and you won't get hurt.

End of story.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: rotating14
Posted 2013-07-03 10:44:11 and read 6743 times.

You want coffee? Sign a waiver eliminating us (Tired of these lawsuits Airlines) from any liability or injury you incur while the coffee, tea or high temperature beverage is served by our staff or while in your sole control. Also, since turbulence is a natural occurrence during flight, it is your responsibility to secure your hot beverage to the best of your ability so that in the event of turbulence, you nor our staff nor another passenger is not in danger of potentially being injured. Thanks for flying. Sign here and press hard. Here, you keep the yellow copy.   

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2013-07-03 11:01:52 and read 6557 times.

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 33):
Coffee brew temperatures of close to 200 degrees are not uncommon.

No one can drink 200 degrees coffee. Not sure why industry standard is 150-200 degrees for all coffee vendors. It is about time they hire a consulting firm and revise standards to 120 degrees, which is pretty hot. Spin it as an energy saving/eco friendly measure.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Dizzy777
Posted 2013-07-03 11:09:03 and read 6459 times.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 25):
National Coffee Association

hahahaha - there really is a "department for everything" in the usa.. bureaucracy at its finest ..

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2013-07-03 11:33:09 and read 6197 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 26):
Stella Liebeck asked McDonald's for just $20,000 to cover her expenses. That's all she wanted. It was only after they repeatedly refused to settle that the case went to trial. Of course, that hasn't stopped people from claiming, as you both do, that she was rewarded for her stupidity.

All she wanted? It does not change the merit of the case one iota whether she would be given 20 dollars or 20,000. All she wanted was someone else to pay for her poor judgment... in this case the big bad corporation like McDonald's.
It all boils down (no pun intended) whether adult individuals should be treated as adults with individual responsibility who can make their own qualified judgment based on a) information they are given (e.g. "hot liquid" written on a cup) or b) basic experience they gathered over their lifetime (e.g. coffee is prepared using hot water) and adjust then their actions accordingly (do not put cup of hot liquid between your legs, especially if you are a 79 year old sitting in a sort of a sports car which tend to be not exactly senior-friendly in term of getting in and out of) or whether they will be always treated like like incompetent idiots who need to be babysitted by someone for even the most basic tasks they perform in their life and that someone (in this case McD) will be punished for their actions even though reasonable steps how towards protecting these people (customers) against themselves have been taken.
That being said I am actually surprised they did not sue Ford for not fitting cup holders in their Probe.

 
Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 21):

There's a really good documentary called "Hot Coffee" that people in this thread should watch about tort reform in the USA and the implications of blindly limiting rewards for cases.
Hot Coffee is a 2011 documentary film that analyzes and discusses the impact of tort reform on the United States judicial system. It is directed by Susan Saladoff, who has practiced as a medical malpractice attorney for at least 26 years.>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_%28film%29


A "documentary" directed by a career ambulance chaser... It does not take an Oxford scholar to figure out her vested interests in maintaining the status quo. There is of course nothing wrong in using the window of opportunity provided by a highly medialized case to push her agenda, but I would be hesitant to call it a documentary.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 32):
And it's pretty common for people will temporarily put a cup of coffee between their knees.

And? It's pretty common people will test sharpness of a knife with their finger and cut themselves once in a while, it's also common for people to walk on a thin ice thinking it will support them and end up in freezing cold water occassionally. Just because it is common that people do all kinds of not really smart things does not mean they should be compensated when things go wrong.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 32):
Coffee should not cause third degree burns and require two years worth of skin grafting.

Says her lawyer... Since coffee is prepared using boiling water or in some cases (espresso) steam that claim does not make sense to begin with. The case should have been all about (ir)responsible handling of a container full of hot liquid, not about temperature.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: silentbob
Posted 2013-07-03 11:49:27 and read 6029 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
the courts decided she deserved more.

No, a jury decided she deserved more and a judge later reduced the award significantly. American juries treat the legal system like a lottery. They think "If that was me, I would want to hit the jackpot too" and then award absurd amounts of money to people.

Quoting Dizzy777 (Reply 36):
hahahaha - there really is a "department for everything" in the usa.. bureaucracy at its finest ..

It's an industry trade group, not a government agency. There seems to be an industry trade group for everything though.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-07-03 12:05:32 and read 5862 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 26):
Sigh. The coffee should not have been served that hot. McDonald's was requiring its franchisees to serve it at temperatures higher than most other establishments.

The whole McDonalds case and I think this case is ridiculous but IIRC the jury had empathy for the plaintiff because the reason M made coffee at the temp they did which was apparently higher than many other comparable restaurants was for economic reasons, apparently you can get more out of your beans at a higher temp or something so the jury felt the big bad corporation was trying to make more money and in doing so had a product more dangerous than their competitors. And "everyone knows" the big bad corporation can afford to pay out.

I personally think contingency fees should be banned and the US should have loser pays like in some other parts of the English speaking world to discourage stupid suits.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: cageyjames
Posted 2013-07-03 12:12:46 and read 5792 times.

I don't want to be "that guy" but...

Is this thread about McDonalds or Delta?   

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: art
Posted 2013-07-03 12:17:39 and read 5757 times.

This thing about hot drinks being hot... I drink tea. In many places the correct way to make tea is to put some in a container and to pour water at 100C into the container. Is drinking this tea potentially dangerous? Yes. Is spillage onto any part of the body potentially dangerous? Yes. Is it negligent to prepare tea this way? No. In many places that is how tea is prepared.

I also eat food. In many places the correct way to prepare some dishes is to heat food to 140C/160C/180C/200C or more...

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-07-03 12:31:59 and read 5626 times.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 7):
Only a total moron would put a cup full of hot liquid between her legs sitting in what technically constitutes a confined space and then try to remove the lid. Frankly I don't see what's legitimate about people being rewarded for their laziness and stupidity.

The article did not say that a cup was between her legs. All that was stated was that the flight attendant spilled coffee on her and the injuries were to her legs. It seems like a legitimate suite to me. I don't know all the details but I would think that if DL is not responding to the lawyers from her, that they want it to end up in court. I don't for the minute think I know the details of the suite but if it proceeds to court and the two parties don't use mediation that there will be an expensive trial that DL could lose. But if the amount is only $170,000, why doesn't DL get out the money from the seat cushions of their offices and come up with a settlement offer?

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-07-03 13:50:00 and read 4925 times.

I can see it now. We had to add "Be careful when opening overhead bins as articles may fall out" after lawsuits regarding being hit by falling bags. Next it will be "Be careful when partaking of hot beverages as turbulence or stupidity may occur at any time."

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-07-03 14:00:56 and read 4819 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 16):
she could be suing for any amount up to and including that amount -- US$170,000.

Because both company's and insurance companies hate the cost of law suits, I'm willing to bet they offered to pay the bills plus some extra and she's holding out for 7 figures.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Boeing747girl
Posted 2013-07-03 15:37:36 and read 4204 times.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 7):

My boyfriend helped defend against that suit many years ago. If it makes you feel any better she may have been awarded millions by the jury, but she walked away with only $600,000 when the judge reduced the sentence because of the rather obvious shortcomings of her claim.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: AADC10
Posted 2013-07-03 16:16:25 and read 3954 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
The McDonald's coffee suit was very legitimate. The lady in that case suffered third-degree burns on her legs. Coffee should never be that hot.

Not to add to the McDonald's stuff but it always annoys me that people pass judgement about the case without knowing the details. Many people have been fooled and bought into the political and media narrative of the McDonald's lawsuit as a "frivolous lawsuit" because coffee is hot and the old woman should have known better so the case is frequently pointed to in the corporate push for tort reform. However, in the McDonald's case, McD had repeated issues with coffee burns, which they were proven to be aware of but did not pass the information to the franchisees because keeping the coffee extra hot saved money. The woman in the case was also quite severely burned. The real point is that confused people think of this as a meritless lawsuit but it was far from it and it is part of a corporate push to avoid responsibility to the general public and only be responsible for criminal prosecution, where large businesses can buy their way out. Now there are actual frivolous lawsuits but the McD coffee was not one of them. If the woman on the flight has no case, DL's lawyers can squash it easily.

I am somewhat surprised about coffee burn in an aircraft because the problem is usually that the coffee is too cold, not too hot. At altitude, the cabin pressure is rather low, equivalent to something like 8,000 feet and as we all know, water boils at a lower temperature at lower pressure. I suppose if they just got a fresh hot carafe and spilled it all over someone, they might get badly scalded. Most airlines place the carafe on a secure spot on the cart or in the hand of an FA.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-07-03 16:43:28 and read 3880 times.

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 23):

"caution, this beverage is hot" was printed all over coffee cups from all business that serve hot coffee only AFTER the infamous McDonald's incident. The reason OTC medicines have 3 forms of pilfer proof seals on packaging is due to the case when some nut case poisoned Tylenol.

As for "emotional distress" I am right there with you. It's the modern day whiplash! Just trying to strengthen her case.?Painful 3rd degree burns that require medical attention, yes. I once watched a 767 intentionally fly into a tall building in NYC from my office window. Now that WAS serious emotional distress. Let's keep the courts clear to get justice for real stuff.

I can't judge this case as I wasn't there... If Delta was wrong they should meet their obligation to pay out as per international law.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-07-03 18:31:16 and read 3768 times.

There was a case in California back in the '90 where a woman sued a hospital because she said their CAT scan destroyed her psychic powers. The jury awarded her $2M. There really is a jackpot mentality in the U.S. regarding product and service liability lawsuits. That's why you see so many TV ads that begin: "Are you receiving payments from a structured settlement but you NEED CASH NOW?"

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-07-03 20:26:58 and read 3658 times.

Quoting flymd1976 (Reply 30):
Exactly how hot is too hot for a "hot" drink counselor?

People should not be served anything that can cause serious bodily harm, period.

A drink that gives someone third degree burns is not fit for consumption, period.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-07-03 23:17:34 and read 3522 times.

Quoting kanban (Reply 44):
Because both company's and insurance companies hate the cost of law suits, I'm willing to bet they offered to pay the bills plus some extra and she's holding out for 7 figures.

That's why I said she must be seeking the full $170k or something close to it -- if I had to guess, they probably would have settled any claim seeking less than $75k, maybe even a bit more. As you say, companies and their insurance hate lawsuits and will generally settle even the most frivolous of claims provided the number is appropriate. Because they haven't settled, she must be asking for way too much...which is stupid, because chances are that her judgement will amount to less than Delta probably would have settled for.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: moo
Posted 2013-07-04 00:02:38 and read 3465 times.

A couple of things about the McDonalds case to put it in perspective.

Firstly, McDonalds brews and serves their coffee at the temperature recommended by most American coffee associations, including the NCA.

Secondly, McDonalds serves over a billion cups of coffee per year in the US alone, and it's reported incidents of major incidents are in single digits. If its coffee and cups were such a menace, it should have been seeing a lot more issues than it was.

On topic, the Delta case is about the server pouring the coffee into the lap of the customer - that's entirely different to the McDonalds case, as it required no idiocy on the part of the customer.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-07-04 00:56:05 and read 3402 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
The McDonald's coffee suit was very legitimate. The lady in that case suffered third-degree burns on her legs. Coffee should never be that hot.
Quoting EricR (Reply 3):
Flashback to the highly publicized lawsuit of a customer suing McDonald's for serving their coffee hot. Sounds like someone trying to make an easy dollar.
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 7):
Only a total moron would put a cup full of hot liquid between her legs sitting in what technically constitutes a confined space and then try to remove the lid. Frankly I don't see what's legitimate about people being rewarded for their laziness and stupidity.
Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 10):
The dimwit should have never put a styrofoam cup full of hot coffee between her legs. Period
Quoting cjg225 (Reply 18):
The people referencing a cup of coffee between someone's legs is an (in)famous tort case in the USA from the early 90s. A woman got a cup of coffee at McDonald's and was in her nephew's (or grandson's or something like that) sports car. The car didn't have a cup holder so she held the coffee between her legs and tried to remove the top. When she did, it spilled and burned her.

You obviously know the truth of this case, I was at a conference and one of the attorneys for this McD's case was speaking, and it was even greater than you expressed.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 21):
And she almost died from the burns- They were that bad. And her case wasn't just about getting money- it was about punishing McDonalds for ignoring the fact their coffee was burning people all over the country when they knew it was being improperly served at almost 200 degrees. The jury did give some of the blame to the lady just so you know.
Quoting silentbob (Reply 25):
The National Coffee Association disagrees with you and McD's practices were in step with their suggested serving guidelines.
Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 27):
She should have never put a cup of hot coffee between her legs. It is not the cash award that bothers me, nor it going to trial. She should have never put a styrofoam cup full of hot coffee between her legs. She sued because she was irresponsible, which I don't feel McDonald's should have ever been held libel
Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
The woman in question was only asking to have her medical expenses covered, the courts decided she deserved more.
Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 33):
Coffee brew temperatures of close to 200 degrees are not uncommon. McDonald's should not be liable for a spill that results in burns, because they did not directly or indirectly cause the spill. If they physically threw the coffee on her, that is a different story, but the woman is responsible for the spill that resulted in the burns because she was the one who was irresponsible with the coffee. Coffee is hot people. Don't play with it and you won't get hurt.

Any of the other comments I listed above, listen to this. This poor woman vaporized her vagina (how much is that worth?), she had more than 3rd degree burns. The coffee was 30 degrees above the acceptable temperature for anything that should have come from a restaurant.

And McDonalds was making their coffee hotter for the reason that was stated above, they wanted to ensure that you were gone before your coffee was cool enough to drink, thus avoiding a refill.

No McDonalds did not drop it in her lap, they made it too hot to drink or even handle. Was this woman responsible for spilling her cup of coffee even though it was burning hot through the foam cup? No she wasn't, McDonalds was found to be at fault for providing her a beverage so hot it would cause her skin to melt.

She also did not ask for the money that she was awarded. She wanted enough to pay her bills, the jurors on that trial decided that a much larger sum was more appropriate considering the extent of the injuries she survived, now you know what happened, stop saying this woman was an opportunistic money grubbing scum, she was anything but that.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: type-rated
Posted 2013-07-04 03:06:04 and read 3310 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 52):
And McDonalds was making their coffee hotter for the reason that was stated above, they wanted to ensure that you were gone before your coffee was cool enough to drink, thus avoiding a refill.

I never knew that. How sneaky of McDonald's to do something like that. But the retail world is full if little procedures to maximize profits as much as they can.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: cjg225
Posted 2013-07-04 09:18:51 and read 3117 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 49):
People should not be served anything that can cause serious bodily harm, period.

There are many common foods that can cause serious bodily harm. Your statement is way too broad.

It's different to discuss the likelihood of harm and the reasonableness of precautions taken to avoid harm.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: sancho99504
Posted 2013-07-04 10:45:12 and read 3031 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 52):

My point was and still is, "she should have never put it between her legs". She would never have had any of those injuries had she not place a styrofoam cup of hot liquid between her legs. Had she not done that, the lawsuit would never have happened and we would not be discussing it right now. The fact of the matter is, people, mainly in the USA are rewarded for sheer stupidity. Should McD's have put their hot beverages in containers that were sturdier? Absolutely. Should other retailers who sold hot beverages put them in sturdier containers? Absolutely. Because of that incident, all hot beverage retailers use sturdier containers, even if some still use styrofoam. You have the right to call me non-compassionate or whatever, but the reality is, jury awards and "political correctness" has removed a lot of self-responsibility from our society and I'm tired of it. Case in point, one of my neighbors house was broken into, he shot the intruder, the intruder was arrested and convicted of breaking and entering. He and his family sued my neighbor for shooting him and he was rewarded $1.6 million (since reduced) for being shot while committing a crime. It's tiresome that people will justify ones stupidity.


As for the woman who had coffee spilled on her;
If the F/A is found to have been reckless, then the airline should be held liable for any injuries sustained.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: bennett123
Posted 2013-07-04 11:08:45 and read 2994 times.

I know that Tea must be made at 100 degrees C, but Coffee does not.

Perhaps, the solution is cold drinks only.

As to placing a cup of Hot Tea/Coffee between my knees, no thanks.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-07-04 11:12:58 and read 2970 times.

Quoting Dizzy777 (Reply 36):
Quoting silentbob (Reply 25):
National Coffee Association

hahahaha - there really is a "department for everything" in the usa.. bureaucracy at its finest ..

NOT a gov't agency, but an industry trade group, therefore not part of the bureaucracy.  

[Edited 2013-07-04 11:14:19]

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: srbmod
Posted 2013-07-04 14:11:11 and read 2845 times.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 56):
I know that Tea must be made at 100 degrees C, but Coffee does not.

Actually coffee and what we brew tea for here in the US (served over ice) are brewed at similar temps (190-200F). Even when using a French Press carafe or heating up water for a "proper" cup or pot of hot tea, the water is brought to a boil but is allowed to cool to a temperature that is close to 200F before being poured over the coffee grounds or tea leaves. Boiling water brings out undesirable characteristics in tea and coffee. Same goes with brewing temps under 190F.

One option would be to use a coffee concentrate, which is something airlines used to use back in the days before coffee makers were standard equipment in aircraft galleys (Early on, airlines would carry vacuum flasks containing coffee and even tomato soup in which to serve passengers.). They would take a measured amount of this concentrate and mix it with a certain amount of hot water. This is something that airlines have moved away from, but coffee concentrate is still manufactured and to be honest, it is nasty. I remember about 6-7 years ago, Burger King started to sell a coffee called BK Joe which came in various strengths, but was just Douwe Egberts' coffee concentrate. There is cold pressed coffee, which is an interesting process, but is more expensive than the traditional coffee concentrate.

Now airlines could always offer canned or bottled coffee. Does JAL and ANA offer canned coffee on their flights (I know that in Asia, canned coffee is pretty common drink and is pretty popular.)?

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-07-04 14:25:05 and read 2827 times.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 18):
Here, apparently, a flight attendant allegedly spilled coffee from a pot onto the claimant.

Every flight attendant I know NEVER pour coffee over a passenger. I would always extend the tray, ask them to put their cup on it and pour over the aisle. Sometimes I would joke "I don't want to pour coffee over your lap because it could make you dance funny." Thy would always say "Oh, never thought of that. Thanks."

DL can dig their heels in when they think someone is trying to take advantage of them. None of us ever want to see a passenger hurt but it does occasionally happen. I have dinged more than one knee or foot that was in the aisle and I can't see over the top of the cart. And back in the 70's and early 80's when every walking passenger carried a garment bag that looked like it was carrying a dead body we had to return them to the passenger during taxi to the gate. I think I personally might have taken an ear or two off with wire coat hangars as we staggered down the aisle of a taxiing 727.

Bet you didn't know--the first rollaboard bag, the Eifel bag, was designed and patented by a Northwest flight attendant and her husband. She retired in relative comfort, I am told.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-07-04 14:44:13 and read 2805 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 49):
People should not be served anything that can cause serious bodily harm, period.

So steak, fish, chicken, should not be served? What about beer, wine and hard alcohol? All the previous items can cause bodily harm.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: 777ER
Posted 2013-07-04 15:17:32 and read 2764 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
I can't even remember the last time I've seen F/As on a Delta flight coming around with coffee pots

On my recent DL flight from DTW-SFO late last month the crew served coffee in coffee pots via the drinks cart

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-07-04 16:46:45 and read 2674 times.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 61):
On my recent DL flight from DTW-SFO late last month the crew served coffee in coffee pots via the drinks cart

A perfectly SAFE and correct way to serve a hot beverage. I could care less if I spill coffee on the carpet but I would be VERY upset if I hurt a passenger.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-07-04 21:18:33 and read 2519 times.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 54):
There are many common foods that can cause serious bodily harm.
Quoting brilondon (Reply 60):
So steak, fish, chicken, should not be served? What about beer, wine and hard alcohol? All the previous items can cause bodily harm.

I meant to say, will cause serious bodily harm, after one serving.

Topic: RE: Woman Suing Delta For Spilled Coffee Injury
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-07-09 09:19:32 and read 2004 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 62):

Not really safe, one spilled a small amount of hot tea on my leg while serving it from a pot.


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