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Topic: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-10 21:04:53 and read 13154 times.

QF's international network has been a lot smaller than it was. That is: No flights to Europe other than to LHR, no more HKG/SIN/BKK-LHR, LAX-AKL etc. I suppose a lot of these are profitable routes. Why did they cut them? Will they ever grow the international network again and bring back these flights?

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-10 21:12:16 and read 13162 times.

Lots of good info in these threads in the combined 500+ replies describing the situation:

Qantas To Axe Frankfurt - EK Announcement Imminent (by jetfuel Aug 30 2012 in Civil Aviation)

QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 (by tayser Sep 5 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-10 21:46:39 and read 13017 times.

I have read these.

But they have axed so many routes! Geeeeeeeeez

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-07-10 21:53:57 and read 12989 times.

QF is on the record saying that they will look at international expansion against once the international division has returned to profit. FY14 is their target, which means we should have a pretty clear idea of what the future holds July-September next year.

They have discussed the potential to expand international -- PEK, ICN, India have all been mentioned in the context of the 787 in recent months, and Alan Joyce said that the airline was looking at doing more at CBR with the 787 (though that was in an address to CBR business leaders, so take it as you will).

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
I suppose a lot of these are profitable routes. Why did they cut them?

They weren't profitable, which is why they were cut. The recent changes have all been profit driven, which is exactly what the company needed. The only cuts not driven by profit were SFO and EZE, which were both replaced with alternatives that better fit their strategy.

You have to realise that Australia is a extremely expensive place to do business on a global scale. Recent currency fluctuations have made that situation worse for QF, allowing foreign airlines to drop AUD fares without losing yeild while decreasing the yeild QF earns on equivalent fares sold in other currencies.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-10 22:52:14 and read 12790 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
I have read these.

And you didn't catch onto the fact that they've essentially expanded their international network through their partnership with Emirates? I weep for you.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: jetfuel
Posted 2013-07-10 23:21:01 and read 12662 times.

They are winding down QF and investing in Jetstar with lower overheads and lower wages. Sad but true.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: rlx01
Posted 2013-07-11 00:04:32 and read 12496 times.

If they just brought SFO back, all would be forgiven.  

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-11 00:34:41 and read 12409 times.

And perhaps YVR?

I suppose BKK-LHR, HKG-LHR, SIN-LHR were profitable???? Will they ever be back? LAX-AKL?

QF's flights to Europe=a bit dull with LHR as the only destination. Wonder if they will add another one?

Quoting bill142 (Reply 4):
And you didn't catch onto the fact that they've essentially expanded their international network through their partnership with Emirates? I weep for you.

I know. I just find it a bit sad since QF used to have a larger network with its own metals

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-11 00:58:49 and read 12307 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
I suppose BKK-LHR, HKG-LHR, SIN-LHR were profitable???? Will they ever be back? LAX-AKL?

How many times are you going to ask the same questions, expecting a different answer?

Will QF Bring Back Axed Routes Like LHR-BKK/HKG? (by United Airline May 26 2012 in Aviation Polls)

Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return? (by United Airline Apr 10 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-07-11 01:04:03 and read 12269 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
I know. I just find it a bit sad since QF used to have a larger network with its own metals


Those days are long gone. Once upon a time QF was only competing with a few lucrative carriers SQ, TG, CX, MH, KL, OS and now days you have Middle Eastern airlines EK, EY, QR with deep pockets and Asian carriers CZ, CA, MU competing for the same piece of the cake. Lets not forget the labour costs which is a huge advantage when compared with mainline QF. From what we hearing QF International is target returning to profit from 2014 onwards & hopefully expansion can resume utilising EK/MU.... I mean QF.

EK8413

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-11 01:06:13 and read 12270 times.

I simply want an update. I know there aren't much of a difference.

In the past QF International was very profitable. Now.........

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-11 01:13:44 and read 12247 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
I simply want an update.

They aren't coming back. QF operates under a different model now.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: JQflightie
Posted 2013-07-11 01:32:58 and read 12161 times.

QF, although hasn't added destination's, they have added more dedicated seats to destinations such as SIN HKG and BKK .

Rumours circulating around the crew atm is PER-AKL and PER-DXB-TXL(BER) on a A332 HGW

QF needs the 789's before they expand the international network, also only if QF International returns to profitability by 2015. Destination's hinted by AJ are ICN, PEK, DEL, and re-instating BOM.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-07-11 01:45:03 and read 12119 times.

QF will slowly decline and die off as a carrier due to far too many missteps over the past decades and much stronger, better positioned competition. The writing on the wall was when they made a deal with the devil in EK.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: zkokq
Posted 2013-07-11 02:00:28 and read 12059 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):

Oh right, its all doom and gloom because you read it on the internet? You have to be kidding.

QF has alot very good times ahead of it, with someone at the helm who will make the right decisions for the Qantas Group, not share holder returns or a quick cash grab as CEO. I have alot of belief that the partnership with EK will make QF stronger.

Let not forget the QF & EK tieup isnt a one way deal. If you cant see the benifits for Qantas, I suggest you reread.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-11 02:15:07 and read 12010 times.

I believe QF will once again become strong. Hope international will grow again.

Wonder why a lot of people want this EK-QF deal to die

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
They aren't coming back. QF operates under a different model now.

Thanks for the info. Perhaps HKG-LHR with the B 789? My two cents.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-11 03:05:41 and read 11846 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 15):
Perhaps HKG-LHR with the B 789?

No. QF isn't going to fly HKG-LHR any longer. Not even with a new plane. It's time for you to accept it and move on.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-07-11 03:32:21 and read 11744 times.

Quoting zkokq (Reply 14):

No.

It's based on their history and their future plans. Ultimately QF will be a domestic carrier who lets EK handle most international flying with JQ doing the rest. Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: zkokq
Posted 2013-07-11 03:43:28 and read 11712 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):

Same could be said with every carrier. I guess thats why aviation is such a cut throat industry.

There is not one thing special about any carrier. The American legacys show us this.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: 1400mph
Posted 2013-07-11 05:07:07 and read 11420 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

I think QF should have stuck with BA and concentrated on LHR, forget about the rest of Europe.

BA may have placed the A380 on the Kangaroo route and QF passengers may tire of transiting through Dubai (especially when compared to SIN) when EK has reached its targeted size.

Also focused on trans-Pacific and non-stop Asia.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: DexSwart
Posted 2013-07-11 05:10:50 and read 11382 times.

Just adding a small contribution by saying that they run full 747s to JNB every day.
I know full planes don't neccisarily mean profit, but, last time I spoke to some people in QF, they said that SYD - JNB is one of their very profitable routes.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2013-07-11 05:26:37 and read 11191 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

No not true. QF is like TAM. The old VARIG flew from a southern capital north, to all far flung corners of the world, but faced with modern challenges couldn't simply sustain destinations like HKG anymore. But as its replacement, TAM links a big southern capital to the big important cities north of it. For QF... this will similarly big a big part of its long haul future. It can do one thing a lot of the others can't. And that is bypass hubs and fly from Australia direct to major cities in Asia. For that it will require the 787-9. The 747 is just too big for many routes. Where QF wins against some of those carriers is it can grow its Australian loyalty (and Emirates helps there, not detracts! If you take QF/EK to europe over thai or SIA, then if you need to go from Melbourne to Tokyo you're more likely to take a QF offering than go Thai again) and China Southern can't take you from Shanghai to Hobart. QF can. It won't control the market. But it can probably pick up another 5 to 10 percent in the long run if it can run more direct flights sustainably direct into asia bypassing major hubs.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-07-11 06:04:02 and read 10797 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):

QF will slowly decline and die off as a carrier due to far too many missteps over the past decades and much stronger, better positioned competition. The writing on the wall was when they made a deal with the devil in EK.

Hadn't QF jumped into bed with EK they would've been killed off by EK / EY anyways... better the devil you know, than the devil you don't!

EK8413

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-07-11 06:34:11 and read 10512 times.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 21):
No not true. QF is like TAM. The old VARIG flew from a southern capital north, to all far flung corners of the world,

Varig and TAM fly(flew) to many cities in Europe and North America that are all within nonstop range from Sao Paulo and Rio. GRU to the USA and Europe are viable with regular long haul jets like 767 and A330's. Sydney requires outside of Asia planes like 77W, A380 & 787-9.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-11 06:49:15 and read 10401 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2013-07-11 08:20:08 and read 10161 times.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 24):
And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.

If they are earning money, why should they? I am not categorically claiming that UA and DL's Australian routes are profitable, but it is very possible that they actually are actually; otherwise they would have already quit.

For whom or from whose perspective would such a move be smart?

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-07-11 09:34:05 and read 9658 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

This is absolutely not true. No other airline (aside from VA, which is devoted to serving SQ's best interests) can offer a wide range of nonstop Australia-Asia flights to the corporate market that craves them. This is where QF's future lies in Asia, which means focusing primarily on the cities that have business links rather than trying to be everything and pleasing every segment of the market.

Some people might not like it, but that's what happens when the toursit/VFR market isn't prepared to pay a little extra to support QF.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 19):
I think QF should have stuck with BA and concentrated on LHR, forget about the rest of Europe.

That's essentially what they've spent the last decade doing. They've tried all sorts of different routes and aircraft in different places in that time, and nothing has worked. They gave the most recent changes (the concentration at SIN) a good try, but even that didn't work.

It was time to try something new.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 20):
Just adding a small contribution by saying that they run full 747s to JNB every day.
I know full planes don't neccisarily mean profit, but, last time I spoke to some people in QF, they said that SYD - JNB is one of their very profitable routes.

JNB is a goldmine for QF. It's also one of their most financially secure routes because of the deal with SA.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 24):
And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.

Moreso if it was SQ or CX that did the 'sensible' thing and pulled out of the market. How it is sensible to drop profitable routes I don't understand, but of course the loss of competition will see the rest of the market benefit.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2013-07-11 09:44:14 and read 9786 times.

The short answer is that it is unlikely QF will re-enter any of the markets it has dropped in the near-term future. The model has changed, the business environment has changed, and the competition has made it virtually impossible to allow such routes to become viable again.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread is that airlines like Qantas, similar to LAN, SAA, etc. are end-of-line carriers: their home markets are geographically located in far-flung regions that will always lose out to the more advantageously-placed airlines like the Middle East/Gulf Coast carriers. Long-haul expansion from end-of-line carriers requires MUCH more capital investment and infrastructure that airlines like QF and all cannot sustain profitably.

Hence, why it, similar to Virgin Australia, have shifted towards building virtual networks via partnerships, code-shares and other long-haul operators.

It's time to accept this status quo as reality and move on. LAX-AKL is not coming back on QF metal anytime soon, period. However, that does not mean the market doesn't exist for it, and it is quite possible that AA may enter it at some point.

So, the silver lining is that just because a carrier withdraws from a route, doesn't mean another operator cannot fill the void with better changes of success.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
If they are earning money, why should they? I am not categorically claiming that UA and DL's Australian routes are profitable, but it is very possible that they actually are actually; otherwise they would have already quit.

For whom or from whose perspective would such a move be smart?

  

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: OA412
Posted 2013-07-11 09:51:46 and read 9737 times.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
I suppose a lot of these are profitable routes.
Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
I suppose BKK-LHR, HKG-LHR, SIN-LHR were profitable????


   No, no, no, no, no! How can you be on this site for over 12 years now and still think that airlines cut profitable routes? How?

Quoting bill142 (Reply 4):
And you didn't catch onto the fact that they've essentially expanded their international network through their partnership with Emirates? I weep for you.

  

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
How many times are you going to ask the same questions, expecting a different answer?

I have just lost all patience. What a waste of forum space.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-07-11 11:12:52 and read 9139 times.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 24):
And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.

Before Delta started flying their once daily 777 from LAX to Sydney they gave over 100 passengers daily to other airlines at LAX based on info on this board for travel to Austrlalia. 100 sounds very plausible given its LAX and Delta's huge operation there. An airline as huge as DL with big operations to both Europe and Asia desrves and has the muscle to feed a flight to Australia and could fly to Brisbane and Melbourne witha 787.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
If they are earning money, why should they? I am not categorically claiming that UA and DL's Australian routes are profitable, but it is very possible that they actually are actually; otherwise they would have already quit.

Why should Qantas own the Pacific route to Australia with no United or USA airline ? UA took over the Pan AM operation which in 1986 was very strong to Australia. ITs not United, Delta's or Virgin Australia's fault the Australian Government has essentialy offered "open skies" to Emirates, Qatar and Etihad. Australia could or should taken a page from their Canadian cousins limiting Emirates to 3 flights weekly since that is the number of passnengers that travel from Canada to Dubai. Once Daily to sydney and Melbourne is al I would hae allowed for Emirates. Australia, before Emirates, was already getting it from Cathay and Singapore Airlines. The Midlde East is just poaring gasoline over a problem that didn't need to become worse.

[Edited 2013-07-11 11:39:14]

[Edited 2013-07-11 11:55:29]

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: N14AZ
Posted 2013-07-11 11:24:10 and read 8953 times.

So what are they actually planning to do with their outstanding A 380s?

I know someone working in XFW who is convinced that we will not see any additional A 380s for QF.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: ClassicLover
Posted 2013-07-11 12:20:14 and read 8491 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
In the past QF International was very profitable. Now.........

No, it was not, and has not been for a very long time.

Even when the whole group was making over A$1 billion in profit, international was not profitable. All of the profit was from domestic which was effectively subsidising international. The numbers were so good that it didn't really matter and the previous management under Geoff Dixon and before that under James Strong did not do anything to turn the international business around.

Having a foreign born person at the helm has been very good because he is not saddled with the emotion that Australians have for Qantas. Therefore he can and has made the hard decisions to put the airline on a sound financial footing as a whole.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 19):
I think QF should have stuck with BA and concentrated on LHR, forget about the rest of Europe.

Considering reports immediately after the Emirates deal went through that bookings to other destinations in Europe were up by hundreds of per cent compared to what BA was booking for them, your comment is pretty ill informed.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 30):
So what are they actually planning to do with their outstanding A 380s?

The last aircraft will replace the Boeing 747-400ERs at the end of the decade.

Qantas will grow its international network and I can see that happening once they convert their 787 options for delivery from 2016. No-one seems to have any patience and thinks all of this change can be completed instantly. Patience, patience, patience.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-07-11 16:51:51 and read 6611 times.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 31):
Qantas will grow its international network and I can see that happening once they convert their 787 options for delivery from 2016. No-one seems to have any patience and thinks all of this change can be completed instantly. Patience, patience, patience.

What options? Didn't they cancel all their 787s? Except the ones destined for JQ. I doubt we will see any significant expansion by QF after their partnership with EK & the cancellation of the 787s.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-07-11 16:52:44 and read 6616 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 23):
Varig and TAM fly(flew) to many cities in Europe and North America that are all within nonstop range from Sao Paulo and Rio. GRU to the USA and Europe are viable with regular long haul jets like 767 and A330's. Sydney requires outside of Asia planes like 77W, A380 & 787-9.

Exactly. We just need to take a look at all the European carriers which have withdrawn services to Australia, AZ, OS, LH, OA, KL just name a few. Had Australia been in geographical location such as DXB, SIN, HGK I'm sure QF would have an advantages over the competitors.

EK8413

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-07-11 18:32:10 and read 6065 times.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 32):
What options? Didn't they cancel all their 787s? Except the ones destined for JQ.

They canceled their firm 787-9 orders, but still have 35 options and fixed delivery slots from 2016. Their arrangement with Boeing sounds a lot like what AA has done with their 787 order.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-11 18:39:29 and read 6023 times.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 32):

They still have purchase rights for 789s from 2016. They will reevaluate both 787 and A350 before proceeding.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-07-11 18:48:44 and read 5979 times.

Many of QF's route shrinkage in the past few years has directly benefited Star carriers :

SIN-LHR
SIN-FRA
BKK-LHR
SYD-SFO
AKL-LAX

QF needs more long-haul mainline and less JQ-ization. Otherwise VA will really start eating their lunch (with their strong virtual network encompassing EY, SQ, NZ, and DL)

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-07-11 19:31:34 and read 5747 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
QF needs more long-haul mainline and less JQ-ization.

Why? As has been discussed, long haul mainline isn't - or hasn't been - profitable.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
Otherwise VA will really start eating their lunch (with their strong virtual network encompassing EY, SQ, NZ, and DL)

People keep telling me this but never explaining why. The Qantas network, both actual and virtual, is stronger.

As for Virgin, I find it a bit unfortunate that an Australian international airline has to trade off a British name.

mariner

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-07-11 19:44:08 and read 5662 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
Why? As has been discussed, long haul mainline isn't - or hasn't been - profitable.

JQ-ization lowers both the cost and the product standard, driving more business travelers to VA and Asian rivals like CX and SQ. JQ is a fine airline for short haul and long-haul leisure like CNS and OOL, but shouldn't be replacing core routes just because it's a lower cost base on paper.

Even SQ knows how to restrict Scoot/Tigerair and not to overstep on SQ/Silk territory, LH keeps germanwings out of FRA/MUC, AirCanada clearly delineates between mainline and rouge, and ANA knows how to base Peach out of KIX ... perhaps QF can learn from their successful playbook(s)

QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-11 19:57:01 and read 5613 times.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 31):
No, it was not, and has not been for a very long time.

Even when the whole group was making over A$1 billion in profit, international was not profitable. All of the profit was from domestic which was effectively subsidising international. The numbers were so good that it didn't really matter and the previous management under Geoff Dixon and before that under James Strong did not do anything to turn the international business around.

Having a foreign born person at the helm has been very good because he is not saddled with the emotion that Australians have for Qantas. Therefore he can and has made the hard decisions to put the airline on a sound financial footing as a whole.

What went wrong with the international routes? The routes seem to be good/competitive routes. And QF has great products/service. Umm...........

Why did those routes stay on for so long? For example BKK-LHR etc.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-07-11 20:06:45 and read 5544 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
JQ-ization lowers both the cost and the product standard, driving more business travelers to VA and Asian rivals like CX and SQ.

Australians have been flocking to the Asian carriers since long before there was a Jetstar. Jetstar may be reclaiming some of them.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
JQ is a fine airline for short haul and long-haul leisure like CNS and OOL, but shouldn't be replacing core routes just because it's a lower cost base on paper.

If Jetstar can make money where Qantas can't, I don't see a problem.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
Even SQ knows how to restrict Scoot/Tigerair and not to overstep on SQ/Silk territory, LH keeps germanwings out of FRA/MUC, AirCanada clearly delineates between mainline and rouge, and ANA knows how to base Peach out of KIX ... perhaps QF can learn from their successful playbook(s)

I have never been remotely confused between Qantas and Jetstar.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways

That's out of left field, especially on a day when Qantas signs a deal to promote Queensland. I'm struggling to see the connection with Jetstar.

mariner

[Edited 2013-07-11 20:13:42]

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-07-11 20:36:17 and read 5368 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
JQ is a fine airline for short haul and long-haul leisure like CNS and OOL, but shouldn't be replacing core routes just because it's a lower cost base on paper.

And where exactly has JQ replaced QF on 'core routes'? QF has actually invested a lot of money to improve their product, so it's a little unfair to claim that they are participating in the race to the bottom like many other airlines are.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways

Why? SYD is where the bulk of their core corporate market is, so it makes complete sense that the bulk of their operation is based there. I am all for more connections outside SYD (and am hopeful that more fuel efficient planes will help it happen), but QF can't serve markets that won't support their operation profitably.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-11 20:39:36 and read 5358 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 39):
Why did those routes stay on for so long? For example BKK-LHR etc.

Because BKK-LHR was one of the JSA routes operated with BA, as explained in the previous threads linked above.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: 1400mph
Posted 2013-07-11 23:40:20 and read 5049 times.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 31):
Considering reports immediately after the Emirates deal went through that bookings to other destinations in Europe were up by hundreds of per cent compared to what BA was booking for them, your comment is pretty ill informed.

Yeah on EK. QF's just doing the donkey work to Dubai.

Thin end of the wedge if you ask me.

EK claims their first scalp.

[Edited 2013-07-11 23:40:57]

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: nascarnut
Posted 2013-07-12 00:01:54 and read 5010 times.

Chances are QF would operate SYD-AKL-DFW-AKL-SYD A380 replacing the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD 744 service before the reinstated AKL-LAX. You would probably see AA operate LAX-AKL service before QF would reenter the market.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-12 00:02:18 and read 4992 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways

What do you suggest they do? Having every major city in Australia simply isn't feasible. You have a complete misunderstanding of Australian dynamics.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: 1400mph
Posted 2013-07-12 00:17:22 and read 4931 times.

I cannot think of any other example be it on short-haul or long-haul where an airline has had to 'totally' surrender large markets based solely on the ops of an airline not based in the same country or bloc ?

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-07-12 00:42:52 and read 4874 times.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 46):
I cannot think of any other example be it on short-haul or long-haul where an airline has had to 'totally' surrender large markets based solely on the ops of an airline not based in the same country or bloc ?

'Totally'? They dropped one of three flights as part of the EK deal and have spoken at length about the fact that this deal paves the way for additional flights once they are in a position to grow again (BER has been specifically mentioned by Alan Joyce, but CDG and FCO also make sense IMO).

In any case, it's a totally ridiculous suggestion that this is what has happened with QF/EK. To put it in reverse, EK has 'surrendered' to the strength QF's frequent flyer programme and allowed it to take their Australian business. They've already said that Skywards activity is down since the end of March.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-12 00:43:40 and read 4888 times.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 46):
I cannot think of any other example be it on short-haul or long-haul where an airline has had to 'totally' surrender large markets based solely on the ops of an airline not based in the same country or bloc ?

Markets constantly change.

• The European carriers have cut services to Australia over the past decade or more as more passengers either were carried the whole way by airlines such as SQ, or it was more efficient for them to link up with a carrier in SE Asia to complete the journey for their own passengers headed to Oz.

• Cross-channel flights on the traditional routes have dropped severely in terms of passenger numbers as the gauge and frequencies succumbed to competition from Eurostar, and the number of available destinations broadened by the growth of the LCCs.

• The transatlantic became splintered away from the traditional gateways like JFK as ETOPS allowed the 767 to move traffic out to the domestic U.S. hubs.

Undoubtedly, the next to go will be the trunk routes between N. America and Japan, as airlines overfly Tokyo-Narita. More beyond Tokyo flights by U.S. carriers will go to alliance partners, rather than operating 5th freedom flights on their own metal.

Things change. Describing appropriate flying as donkey's work, or filling forums with endless "when will XXX return to their former glory" type of threads, will accomplish nothing. Move with the times or be left behind.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AnsettB727
Posted 2013-07-12 03:17:32 and read 4669 times.

I have to say that I've chosen BA over QF to fly back and forth between SYD and LHR due to the fact that I don't like the way the flight is split via DXB. I love the QF A380, but I'm not prepared to fork out hundreds of pounds extra to fly it, and for me, flying via SIN is a much nicer way to get home from the UK. Ultimately, however, I think the ageing BA fleet will push me back on to QF - no A380 service to SYD on BA is a negative for me.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: icanfly
Posted 2013-07-12 03:57:15 and read 4560 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

   Sad but true. After years of cost-cutting to the bone, QF has become a glorified low-cost carrier. A dying end-of-the line airline, it has only two things to offer: (1) precious LHR slots and (2) access to a wealthy domestic frequent flyer base. These are essentially what attracted EK. Yet alliance aside, QF knows it's simply not in the same league as a proper full-service airline such as EK.

QF can shine only on the USA routes because there its competitor's offerings (DL, VA, UA) are mediocre and the route is protected. If the likes of SQ or EK were given rights to fly SYD-LAX, QF would be finished.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2013-07-12 04:02:00 and read 4542 times.

I was wondering if growth in Europe was not viable for QF in the near future, would Qantas ever consider to focus their growth into Asia using their own aircraft instead?

Looking at the increasing traffic coming from Asia (particularly from China) to major Australian cities, probably QF could make a PEK-SYD/MEL ,CAN-MEL, TPE-BNE/SYD work on an A330/B744? Currently I don't have any figures apart from my simple thoughts while looking at the great amount of Asia bound passengers flying out of MEL the last time I flew there.

Quoting AnsettB727 (Reply 49):
I think the ageing BA fleet will push me back on to QF

I thought BA deployed the B77W with the new products on the LHR-SIN-SYD route.  

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-12 04:19:08 and read 4474 times.

Why did they end the JSA at the first place?

I remember they said CDG would have been a profitable destination but due to some reason it wasn't. Wonder if they can sort it out and return there.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-12 04:45:04 and read 4362 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 52):
I remember they said CDG would have been a profitable destination but due to some reason it wasn't. Wonder if they can sort it out and return there.

Blame the French for that one.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bwwt
Posted 2013-07-12 04:54:59 and read 4357 times.

Hi all, I've been reading this forum for years and finally decided to take the plunge and join!

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 51):

I was wondering if growth in Europe was not viable for QF in the near future, would Qantas ever consider to focus their growth into Asia using their own aircraft instead?

That's the plan once the 787s start arriving!

Quoting United Airline (Reply 52):
Why did they end the JSA at the first place?

I think this has already been mentioned a few times? It simply wasn't making money. They have more opportunities with EK.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 52):
I remember they said CDG would have been a profitable destination but due to some reason it wasn't. Wonder if they can sort it out and return there.

If I remember correctly, QF wanted daily flights while the French would only allow them 3/4x weekly.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-07-12 05:16:21 and read 4309 times.

Quoting AnsettB727 (Reply 49):
Ultimately, however, I think the ageing BA fleet will push me back on to QF - no A380 service to SYD on BA is a negative for me.

Hopefully BA will stick with the 77Ws to SYD, which makes their product competitive (though certainly not class-leading). I think a premium heavy 789 would be more likely in the long term than an A380.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 52):
Why did they end the JSA at the first place?

  

This has been discussed at extreme length on this thread and others. Please go back and read the dozen threads that we've had since last October on this topic and I guarantee that all your questions will be answered in depth.

Quoting bwwt (Reply 54):
Hi all, I've been reading this forum for years and finally decided to take the plunge and join!

Welcome!   

Quoting bwwt (Reply 54):
If I remember correctly, QF wanted daily flights while the French would only allow them 3/4x weekly.

   Part of it was QF's lack of mid-size long haul aircraft, which meant that they were limited to 3 flights a week with a 747. They could fly 5 weekly with a 240-279 seat aircraft (ie an A332 or 789) under the existing treaty, but I'd expect a new treaty (or an Australia-EU Open Skies agreement) to be negotiated before QF looked to return to CDG.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: ZK-NBT
Posted 2013-07-12 05:32:44 and read 4226 times.

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 44):
Chances are QF would operate SYD-AKL-DFW-AKL-SYD A380 replacing the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD 744 service before the reinstated AKL-LAX.

How likely is this actually? It has been doing the rounds again of late.

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 44):
You would probably see AA operate LAX-AKL service before QF would reenter the market.

   Unless EK can coax QF or operate it themselves which I hope not. But if it doesn't make money it won't be back.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: klinit
Posted 2013-07-12 05:33:02 and read 4236 times.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 46):

I don't really get how they are "surrendering" anything. They still offer their two daily Australia-X-LHR flights, just via DXB instead of SIN. The number of JSA flights with EK to DXB is much larger than what BA had to SIN. Also now passengers don't have to double transfer via LHR, but can instead fly onwards directly.

Personally I find SIN a much more interesting place than DXB to spend a few days on the way to Europe, but I think QF's strategy is rather sensible and not really a case of throwing in the towel...

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: TN486
Posted 2013-07-12 05:41:09 and read 4222 times.

Quoting icanfly (Reply 50):
  Sad but true. After years of cost-cutting to the bone, QF has become a glorified low-cost carrier

I am astounded that you can actually believe that. If that was fact, EK would never have gone near them. I am sure the CEO of EK, if he had the time and patience, as well as the CEO of QF, would shoot holes in that statement.
QF continues to provide a very strong product for their market segment, domestically as well as internationally, JQ (a Qantas Group airline) has expanded, from a small domestic LCC , internationally into Asia, Japan, and other niche International Tourist destinations, Qantas Link, another QF Group airline, is the major provider of regional services within Australia, and is doing very well, thank you very much, and I havnt even begun to mention Network Aviation, nor the strength of the QF Frequent Flyer programme (a programme that is the envy of most other airlines throughout the world).

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 51):
I was wondering if growth in Europe was not viable for QF in the near future, would Qantas ever consider to focus their growth into Asia using their own aircraft instead

Hello......where have you been for the last 12 months, I suggest you go to the QF website and start reading some press releases for the last 2 yrs.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 52):
Why did they end the JSA at the first place

I suggest to ensure you become up to date with QF intentions, that you do the same also.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 48):
Markets constantly change.

• The European carriers have cut services to Australia over the past decade or more as more passengers either were carried the whole way by airlines such as SQ, or it was more efficient for them to link up with a carrier in SE Asia to complete the journey for their own passengers headed to Oz.

• Cross-channel flights on the traditional routes have dropped severely in terms of passenger numbers as the gauge and frequencies succumbed to competition from Eurostar, and the number of available destinations broadened by the growth of the LCCs.

• The transatlantic became splintered away from the traditional gateways like JFK as ETOPS allowed the 767 to move traffic out to the domestic U.S. hubs.

Undoubtedly, the next to go will be the trunk routes between N. America and Japan, as airlines overfly Tokyo-Narita. More beyond Tokyo flights by U.S. carriers will go to alliance partners, rather than operating 5th freedom flights on their own metal.

Things change. Describing appropriate flying as donkey's work, or filling forums with endless "when will XXX return to their former glory" type of threads, will accomplish nothing. Move with the times or be left behind.

Ditto, Ditto, and Ditto.
"Here endeth the lesson" I reckon

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-07-12 06:51:01 and read 4090 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):

As Mariner said, the actual+virtual QF network is stronger (and more useful to the corporate market) than VAs.

And I think you are slightly confused about the role of Jetstar for online connections. CX, KA, MU and JL seve online connections to all the major East Asian cities that need full service, while Jetstar at SIN flows to leisure destinations in SE Asia with very little (read none) premium demand. And QF flys to BKK, CGK, and MNL on their own metal for the corporate market, so there is no need to fly Jetstar. In all honesty, Jetstar is more removed from the mainline operation than you seem to think it is.

I'm really not sure why several people keep bringing up Jetstar. Jetstar's longhaul fleet hasn't grown for ages, they are static at 12 A330s. And do you know how many 787s Jetstar will receive? Go on, take a wild guess......12. QantasGroup has basically admitted that growth is off the table for Jetstar longhaul over the short-to-medium term.

And as for the Jetstarisation crap, how many routes have Jetstar taken over from mainline? I'm pretty certain that the Queensland-Japan routes (which are about 99% leisure) are the only ones. Those routes we're haemoraging cash for Qantas, even more so than FRA was. QF was going to pull out of that market anyway, so if anything we're better off with Jetstar flying them as QantasGroup still has a presence in that market.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 43):

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest really. What you suggest hasnt worked for the past decade, so I'm not sure why you think it is such a winning strategy. I don't especially want to rehash every aspect of the EK partnership as I have patiently explained on here ad nauseum the benefits of the partnership but I'll just say two things: (1) the relevance of London to Australia is declining, and demand for Australians to travel to the rest of Europe is growing, (2) LHR is on the far western extremity of Europe and is therefore a less than useless hub to anywhere other than North America. Would you fly LHR-LAX-MSY? Of course not, so why are you so arrogant as to presume that Australians should be fed over LHR to FCO or ATH?

The simple fact is that QF were LOSING some of their own FFs because of their highly limited European network, when EK et al could get you there 1 stop without a back track. Now QF actually get a finger in that revenue which before they were pissing away about half way between SIN and LHR, and - most importantly - they encourage those people who were already flying EK to Europe to come home to Qantas for the valuable Domestic, Asia and TPAC networks.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: sq256
Posted 2013-07-12 07:10:28 and read 4054 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 59):
And do you know how many 787s Jetstar will receive? Go on, take a wild guess......12.

Last I've checked the Boeing orders site it was 14.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 52):
Why did they end the JSA at the first place?

I remember they said CDG would have been a profitable destination but due to some reason it wasn't. Wonder if they can sort it out and return there.

The JSA wasn't making money. Full planes does not always guarantee a profit (Full Plane =/= Profit).

The french only allowed them 3/4 weekly. QF wanted daily from memory, but the French government refused.

I don't post as often, but why do you ask the same questions every 6-12 months expecting a update? The answers for the most part will pretty much always nearly be the same from the last time you've asked those questions.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-07-12 08:13:13 and read 3955 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 59):

As Mariner said, the actual+virtual QF network is stronger (and more useful to the corporate market) than VAs.

That's only because QF has a much much much longer history. Give VA another 5 years and see if you're still singing the same tune.

You talk about how unprofitable leisure destinations are, then you go off touting the EK partnership about bring ATH into 1-stop. You talk about FRA being so unprofitable it's like a electric saw, but yet during the prior round of routes cuts (before EK partnership) the only thing I keep hearing is people defending SIN-FRA because it's such a crucial business market and it's going nowhere.

Apparently QF can do no wrong.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-07-12 12:34:36 and read 3740 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 61):
That's only because QF has a much much much longer history. Give VA another 5 years and see if you're still singing the same tune.

If QF left Oneworld, then perhaps. But the overall reach that QF frequent flyers have will never be rivalled by what VA offers unless they join Star.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 61):
Apparently QF can do no wrong

Going by the general consensus on this thread, QF can't seem to get anything right either. All they are is a "glorified low cost carrier" that has "surrendered" to EK and will be dominated within 5 years by an airline that flies 17 weekly international widebody frequencies (with 5 77Ws) compared to QF's ~150 (with 12 A380s, 12 744s and 10 A333s).

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-07-12 13:00:53 and read 3713 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 62):

If QF left Oneworld, then perhaps. But the overall reach that QF frequent flyers have will never be rivalled by what VA offers unless they join Star.

The only real link QF into oneworld is through AA.

They partnered with EK for EMEA. They need SAA for JNB route. They prefer MU over CX to deal with China. jetstar Japan is a really small potato (JL). And SCL is a single long-thin route (LA).

Barely any relationship with BA, AB, IB, S7, AY, SriLankan, QR, CX .....

If VA had anything resembling an Asian network, QF will really start to sweat.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-07-12 13:28:14 and read 3663 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 39):
What went wrong with the international routes? The routes seem to be good/competitive routes. And QF has great products/service. Umm...........

It's difficult for carriers based at the "end of the line" like QF, meaning based in locations that aren't good connecting hubs to anywhere else, to compete with carriers like EK that can feed their hub from almost everywhere in the world. QF has to rely almost exclusively on O&D traffic. South African Airways has a very similar problem due to their location. QF's alliance with EK is an attempt to deal with that issue.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-12 13:32:58 and read 3650 times.

The JSA was a huge money maker in the 90s. Geeeeeeeeez

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-07-12 13:58:04 and read 3607 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 64):
It's difficult for carriers based at the "end of the line" like QF, meaning based in locations that aren't good connecting hubs to anywhere else, to compete with carriers like EK that can feed their hub from almost everywhere in the world. QF has to rely almost exclusively on O&D traffic. South African Airways has a very similar problem due to their location. QF's alliance with EK is an attempt to deal with that issue.

I think SAA is leaving opportunity on the table. They're very well situated to connect deep South America with far east Asia, but their options today are rather limited.

GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 89.9° (E) 11195 mi

2 segment path: 11261 mi (+0.6%)
GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) JNB (26°08'01"S 28°14'32"E) 109.7° (E) 4630 mi
JNB (26°08'01"S 28°14'32"E) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 68.2° (E) 6631 mi

2 segment path: 11276 mi (+0.7%)
GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) DXB (25°15'10"N 55°21'52"E) 70.4° (E) 7592 mi
DXB (25°15'10"N 55°21'52"E) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 80.1° (E) 3684 mi

2 segment path: 11772 mi (+5.2%)
GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) FRA (50°01'35"N 8°32'35"E) 31.9° (NE) 6073 mi
FRA (50°01'35"N 8°32'35"E) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 64.1° (NE) 5699 mi

Not only JNB is the shortest option, but they also avoid any segment longer than 7000mi, thus more fuel efficient

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-07-12 14:01:12 and read 3595 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 66):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 64):It's difficult for carriers based at the "end of the line" like QF, meaning based in locations that aren't good connecting hubs to anywhere else, to compete with carriers like EK that can feed their hub from almost everywhere in the world. QF has to rely almost exclusively on O&D traffic. South African Airways has a very similar problem due to their location. QF's alliance with EK is an attempt to deal with that issue.
I think SAA is leaving opportunity on the table. They're very well situated to connect deep South America with far east Asia, but their options today are rather limited.

The problem is those markets are very small compared to Europe-Australia. There would have to be much more O&D traffic on the individual sectors Asia-JNB and JNB-South America to justify enough frequency to make those routings very attractive compared to connections via Europe or the Gulf.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-07-12 14:37:38 and read 3540 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 61):
That's only because QF has a much much much longer history. Give VA another 5 years and see if you're still singing the same tune.

I'm not sure what history has to do with it.

Qantas recently dumped one of its lynch-pin historical associations, one which pretty much covered the history of Australia/UK civil aviation, and swapped it for a better one.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 61):
Apparently QF can do no wrong.

I'm sympathetic but I disagree. I only started posting much about Qantas at the time of the grounding - I said from the git-go Joyce was likely to win, to storms of abuse from many, and, surprisingly to me, abuse from quite a few Qantas supporters.

Since then, I've posted more and I've discovered that the Australian threads are generally well-balanced and certainly thought provoking.

mariner

[Edited 2013-07-12 15:20:00]

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-07-12 15:26:15 and read 3458 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 66):

You're right - and QF (and NZ for that matter) are also missing this opportunity. Just as Brazil-Asia is well served over JNB, Asia to SCL is best flowed over SYD or AKL.

Obviously the Brazillian economy has just cooled off slightly, but if the LatAm region continues to grow strongly then it will be interesting to see if SA/QF/NZ recognize their strategic location between the two fastest growing regions in the world. I don't expect anything for 5-10 years, but long term it could bean interesting market.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 65):

The market has changed, and Qantas didn't change with it. I know that you want HKG and BKK to LHR back, but please understand that those routes were an anachronism of a former, golden era of air travel. Indeed the fact they survived so long is testament to the short sighted mismanagement and sacred cows of the Strong and Dixon era. Had Dixon had the balls to try and make serious changes to the airline's cost base and take a long, hard look at the network 10 years ago then a lot of the pain of the last 3 years could have been avoided.

I dont want to put all the blame on Dixon, though, because the market is changing so rapidly that the end-of-the-line carriers aren't in a position to act nimbly enough. In 2008 we were discussing rumors of a QF-BA merger. 5 years later I think we can say that such an eventuality had it come to pass would have crippled QF. Nonetheless, that five years ago it was being considered to merge with BA is testament to just how quickly things change.

Going off the top of my head (I apologise if my dates are out slightly) but since 2008 the following has changed:

EY has launched MEL and SYD, the latter is now double daily (inc VA)
QR has launched MEL and PER
EK have approximately DOUBLED the number of seats that they fly Aus-DXB
SQ have approximately DOUBLED the number of seats that they fly Aus-SIN
TG and MH have added capacity, for example BNE is now standalone for both carriers
CX have added capacity and frequencies to all routes
CZ are strongly pushing into the Aus-Asia market - to a lesser extent he same applies to MU and CA


I certainly don't blame the ME3 for Qantas' troubles, and - personally - I'm glad we didn't adopt the Canadian approach, But I use that to illustrate the speed with which QF was becoming redundant in this market. Let me remind you that all that capacity was added in the Global Financial Crisis, so the market conditions were very challenging.

Coming back to your original question, times have changed - it was time for QF to change with them

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-12 15:34:21 and read 3436 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 69):
The market has changed, and Qantas didn't change with it.

You do realize that by replying to the OP's questions with anything more than links or references to previous threads, you're just being pranked. These same questions come up every couple of months, sometimes the threads get deleted, sometimes moved to Travel/Polls, but they've all been extensively answered in the past. Why these pranking threads, to see who'll pick up the bait this time, are allowed to continue to exist is one of a.net's greater mysteries.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: weebie
Posted 2013-07-12 19:28:37 and read 3193 times.

Europe is a worthless minor market these days lets be honest? The money is with Asia and I suspect potential increases to JHB. I'm not surpised by QF looking at it's perth international options.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: SYDAIRPORTS
Posted 2013-07-12 19:35:39 and read 3182 times.

makes you wonder how long before QF is domestic only & BNE-SYD-MEL-CBR-PER only (ADL might hang in there)

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bwwt
Posted 2013-07-12 19:55:13 and read 3122 times.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 72):

makes you wonder how long before QF is domestic only & BNE-SYD-MEL-CBR-PER only (ADL might hang in there)

A long while yet.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: SYDAIRPORTS
Posted 2013-07-12 20:09:31 and read 3101 times.

Quoting bwwt (Reply 73):
Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 72):

makes you wonder how long before QF is domestic only & BNE-SYD-MEL-CBR-PER only (ADL might hang in there)

A long while yet.

Long as in how many weeks ? or year or 2 ?

QF costs are just way too high.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-12 20:36:04 and read 3064 times.

Quoting weebie (Reply 71):
Europe is a worthless minor market these days lets be honest? The money is with Asia and I suspect potential increases to JHB. I'm not surpised by QF looking at it's perth international options.

Don't know why on earth you think that QF would increase flight to Johor Bahru when they don't even fly there.



Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 74):
QF costs are just way too high.

They're only expensive because you're too tight and think that tiger offers better service.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-12 20:37:38 and read 3074 times.

Things change really fast in this industry. Back in 2005 QF said they had no interest to fly to DXB. Now they fly to LHR via DXB.

I doubt SIN-LHR is unprofitable. Why did they cut it? Guess they do not have enough planes for now?

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-12 20:48:19 and read 3054 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 78):

The reasons why they dumped SIN-LHR have been mentioned in the other threads you claim to have read. I suggest you re-read them if you missed the answer the first time.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-12 20:53:21 and read 3034 times.

OK I will re-read them all. Sorry again

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-07-12 20:55:05 and read 3028 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 76):

I explained how the market changed, and AeroWesty is right. I probably shouldn't have given you so much of my time, but as a parting goodwill gesture I will state the bleeding obvious: SIN-LHR might be a profitable market, but it does not fit with QF's strategic priorities.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 75):

This is a real pain, but as Im on my iPad I can't quote specific text...

1) I think he meant JNB, and I agree that I could see PER-JNB in the future, if (when) the agreement with SAA ends.

2) Agreed, if SYDAIRPORTS chooses to fly TT then great, Im all for a free market and competition, but his daily tirade against Qantas Domestic us getting very old, very fast  

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: bill142
Posted 2013-07-12 20:59:24 and read 3016 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 82):
1) I think he meant JNB, and I agree that I could see PER-JNB in the future, if (when) the agreement with SAA ends.

I know. I was being sarcastic with my reply.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-12 21:18:15 and read 2991 times.

QF flies to JNB I think.

Should there be a new aircraft that can fly between Australia and Europe profitably I guess QF will start nonstop service. They once looked at PER-LHR if I remember correctly.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-07-12 22:27:09 and read 2867 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 76):
I doubt SIN-LHR is unprofitable. Why did they cut it? Guess they do not have enough planes for now?
Quoting United Airline (Reply 78):
I am simply not convinced that SIN-LHR was unprofitable since it was the first gateway to Europe for QF.

So? You realize the market is not static, right? Competitors move in, QF's costs change, the markets change, etc. You're making this way harder than it needs to be, there isn't some crazy scenario here, the routes are simply unprofitable.

I literally started reading about QF's international situation about 5 minutes ago and I already know more about the answers to the questions that you keep asking. My advice? I suggest you reread the other threads  

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-07-12 22:50:18 and read 2827 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 27):
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread is that airlines like Qantas, similar to LAN, SAA, etc. are end-of-line carriers: their home markets are geographically located in far-flung regions

LAN's home markets no longer revolve solely around Chile and Perú. Remember, LAN completed its take-over of TAM last year and views the Brazilian market as a vehicle which will dramatically grow LAN's business in the coming years...

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: TruemanQLD
Posted 2013-07-12 23:14:58 and read 2764 times.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 74):
Quoting bwwt (Reply 73):
Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 72):

makes you wonder how long before QF is domestic only & BNE-SYD-MEL-CBR-PER only (ADL might hang in there)

A long while yet.

Long as in how many weeks ? or year or 2 ?

QF costs are just way too high.

Given QF just restarted OOL, they are hardly shrinking domestically and they will certainly not be domestic only in the next 10 years + (if ever)

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-07-12 23:48:06 and read 2708 times.

Thanks for the info. Read everything and I understand QF's current strategy and I guess HKG-LHR, BKK-LHR, SIN-LHR and other European destinations will not happen at least in the near future. But do they still have the rights? I guess they will still keep them just in case they need to use them in the future.

Topic: RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2013-07-13 01:30:35 and read 2573 times.

Quoting bwwt (Reply 54):
That's the plan once the 787s start arriving!

Welcome to a-net!  
I thought the 787s were allocated for Jetstar, not QF? Are we assuming that Jetstar will be taking charge of their Asian expansions?

Quoting TN486 (Reply 58):
I suggest you go to the QF website and start reading some press releases for the last 2 yrs.

Thank you. Of course in the past 12 months we've heard QF doing PR stuff about their expansion into Asia. While Jetstar Asia seems to be rather successful, we have seen the failed attempt for QF to start their Asian airline Red-Q.

Then recently, we have seen QF dropping several routes into Asia (e.g. 1 of 2 daily SIN-PER, SIN-ADL, and downgrading of equipments to Asian routes) when they started the partnership with EK. Unless if I have totally missed something, even with their marketing about Asia, so far we have seen less QF presence in Asia than it was before.

What I was wondering if QF could open new routes to Asia using their own metal?
Or, was Jetstar expected to lead their Asian expansion? which could make sense if they were waiting the 787s to commence the expansions.

Regards,
Dirktraveller


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