Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5817833/

Topic: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: lisbonbearuk
Posted 2013-07-14 10:57:22 and read 9759 times.

It seems MXP is an airport that has a real identity crisis. It has a huge low-cost presence with EZY, but has no real alliance presence by *A, 1W or ST, despite having an impressive long haul network.

Can it sustain trying to be all things to all men, or should it look to establishing better connectivity for its legacy carriers through alliance member tie-ups?

Does anyone know if EZY are to expand further at MXP?

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-07-14 11:26:21 and read 9602 times.

With EK launching flights to JFK from MXP, that could lead to something. I have contended that the partnership agreements with their reward programs could make this route popular and who knows, it could lead to additional growth as well.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-07-14 12:58:47 and read 9322 times.

EZY went to court and won access to LIN for the important shuttle link to Rome.

I'm sure they would love to transfer more MXP flying to LIN if the opportunity arose. They do LGW and ORY already from LIN.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: reifel
Posted 2013-07-14 13:54:36 and read 9116 times.

MXP is indeed a bit strange. First of all in my opinion it's not a pleasant place, everything is pretty old and run down.

Regarding transferring, there are some odd transfers opportunity, obviously in first place between Skyteam and Alitalia. One can easily book flights to Japan or whoever else via MXP with AZ, or i.e. with OK from PRG to MXP and then onward to other destinations with AZ. Transfers do not seem to be encouraged, i.e. no airline is actually offering transfer counters at that airport, you need to get your onward boarding pass at the gate.

Also, there are odd other transfers possible. i.e. the Atlantic Joint Venture of LH/LX/OS/SN/AC/UA is offering transfers in Milan if schedules fix. People can fly with LH from FRA to MXP connecting to UA to the US i.e.
Same goes for OW, where AA offers connections with AB.

But all these connections are rather "random fits". If it works, fine, then feel free to book, but I do not have the impression that these connectons are specifically planned or even encouraged, as the alliances are all trying to develop rather other hub airports in Europe, for AZ it would be FCO and for Skyteam in particular also CDG/AMS, maybe even a bit LHR, while *A would be FRA/MUC and OW LHR....

But a lot of airports are in similar situations. I.e. Star would allow you to fly via AMS if schedules fit (i.e. FRA-AMS on LH connecting to UA to EWR), same goes with LHR or CDG... AA would also allow you to connect in other random places like BCN... I.e. MIA-BCN on AA connecting to AB/HG to VIE....

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: lax888
Posted 2013-07-14 20:04:54 and read 8571 times.

I also agree that MXP is a weird fit. I however it has to do with the fact that other hubs are just too near which therefore creates some difficulty for MXP to really shine. There is ZRH,VIE, FCO in the vicinity which has all are hubs for an alliance.
Also I agree that MXP is a dreadful airport to transit in. I did it three times already and the place is just sad. Everything looks really old and lounges are really crap. The only good thing is that until now everything has always been on time. Also the main reason for transiting through MXP is the cheap fares ex MXP. The most competitive Business class fares are from MXP or FCO. However MXP involves less back tracking and is pretty straight forward as the terminal is not too large.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: miaintl
Posted 2013-07-14 21:43:07 and read 7836 times.

MXP needs to be AZ's main hub, not FCO. As already mentioned MXP involves far less back-tracking than FCO and is in a good central position to be a skyteam hub.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2013-07-14 21:58:06 and read 7697 times.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 5):
MXP needs to be AZ's main hub, not FCO. As already mentioned MXP involves far less back-tracking than FCO and is in a good central position to be a skyteam hub.

Sigh. AZ has been there, done that and it did not work out. The problem is that no one who actually lives in Milan wants to use MXP (unless it is really cheap). The only way it could work is if LIN closed...

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: miaintl
Posted 2013-07-14 22:49:31 and read 7359 times.

So if LIN closed, you think an MXP hub would be a success? You do agree that MXP is in a better geographic location to be a connecting hub than FCO right?

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-07-14 22:57:02 and read 7300 times.

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Thread starter):
despite having an impressive long haul network.

How is it impressive? No daily service to Tokyo; only one daily flight to South America and, most pathetic of all, it only maintains three links to the United States - New York, Miami and, for a few months in the summer, Atlanta; and is entirely lacking in service to Africa withh just some northern African destinations, Addis Ababa and Mombassa.

It's probably the least impressive long-haul network of any major European city.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: Doona
Posted 2013-07-14 23:03:55 and read 7263 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 8):
It's probably the least impressive long-haul network of any major European city.

You've never heard of Berlin, then.

Cheers
Mats

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-07-14 23:07:47 and read 7233 times.

Quoting Doona (Reply 9):
You've never heard of Berlin, then.

Of course I have. It's a much smaller market than Milan - much smaller - and it shouldn't be expected to have a large long-haul network. Yet it maintains service to MIA, JFK, LAX, EWR, ORD, AUH, DOH, ULN and PEK. That's impressive for an air traffic market of Berlin's size.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: QFVHOQA
Posted 2013-07-14 23:21:02 and read 7145 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 8):
It's probably the least impressive long-haul network of any major European city.

ATH has a poorer range of long haul flights, but considering how wealthy the area around MXP is there should be more. At least MXP can retain links to SIN, PEK, HKG.

As everyone else has said, LIN continues to operate to the detriment of MXP. However both LIN & MXP are managed by the same entity, so there's no incentive to pit one against the other. I just read that MXP is U2's biggest non-UK base, so they're already pretty big there. LH Italia failed there, so I don't see anyone other than U2 trying to expand.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-07-15 00:03:58 and read 6881 times.

MXP's fortunes will not really change until LIN is closed at some point, and tbh thats a remote possibility.

Dual airports can work, but in Milan's case having the inner city airport just makes it so much harder for the more remote, larger airport at MXP to be successful. Its hard enough getting the locals out there which is an issue in itself.

In saying all that MXP would likely be a far wiser hub choice than FCO IF the right conditions were in place. It has the wealth around there, and the location to really be a very good yielding hub, but politics in Italy makes it hard to even consider that happening.

It remains that one main hub in Italy is all that is needed at this time and FCO wins that race due to a number of reasons, not all though that cater to common sense in an ideal world.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: vin2basketball
Posted 2013-07-15 03:39:26 and read 5697 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 8):

How is it impressive? No daily service to Tokyo; only one daily flight to South America and, most pathetic of all, it only maintains three links to the United States - New York, Miami and, for a few months in the summer, Atlanta; and is entirely lacking in service to Africa withh just some northern African destinations, Addis Ababa and Mombassa.

It's probably the least impressive long-haul network of any major European city.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 10):


Of course I have. It's a much smaller market than Milan - much smaller - and it shouldn't be expected to have a large long-haul network. Yet it maintains service to MIA, JFK, LAX, EWR, ORD, AUH, DOH, ULN and PEK. That's impressive for an air traffic market of Berlin's size.


MXP really suffers from the same thing KIX deals with; a more convenient short haul airport (ITM and LIN) that siphons away high yield short haul, which precludes a full fledged hub from developing.

I would point out that MXP also has daily Beijing,Shanghai-Pudong, Hong Kong, now EK to JFK, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Doha, Tehran, Seoul Incheon, Beirut, Muscat, PIA to Islamabad and Lahore (direct flights with intermediate stops), Amman, Jeddah, Riyadh, Singapore, Baku, Tel Aviv, Bangkok, Newark, and Keflavik

No its not as much as it could/should have, but its not exactly peanuts either (you brought in the Middle Eastern cities -- of them only ISB and LAH are traditionally considered long haul -- KEF is longer than some ME flights)

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-07-15 03:47:15 and read 5640 times.

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Thread starter):
It seems MXP is an airport that has a real identity crisis

MXP is suffering from "competition", locally with LIN and nationally with FCO. It seems that no western European country can sustain two hubs, with the exception of Germany thanks to its larger population.
MXP has gone through difficult times since AZ ceased its dual hub strategy for the benefit of FCO : in fact, MXP is the only Italian airport that has known a negative growth in passengers traffic between 2000 and 2012.
LCC growth in Europe in general and in Italy in particular is giving MXP a second chance. Just like LGW and ORY, MXP can rely 1/precisely on LCC traffic and 2/ on some international O&D from Milan.
In its industrial plan for 2013-2016, AZ seems to take this latter into consideration as it is planning to open new intercontinental routes : MXP-AUH and MXP-PVG.
EK has been allowed to serve JFK from MXP as of oct 2013 IIRC and this is a positive sign from the Italian authorities in their will to develop MXP. On a side note, the construction of a third runway is under way.
At last it can be noted that FCO attracts more traffic than MXP and LIN combined by a wide margin (36,9 M pax vs 27,7 M pax in 2012), but most of the premium traffic originating in Italy is located in Milan.



Quoting miaintl (Reply 5):
MXP needs to be AZ's main hub, not FCO. As already mentioned MXP involves far less back-tracking than FCO and is in a good central position to be a skyteam hub.

You keep repeating this like a mantra ! But repeating this 100, 1,000 or 1,000,000 times won't make it a truth, you know.
In Europe, the LCCs have shown the way : regional hubs are not the trend, point to point connections have become the norm. As for medium and long-haul, I have shown you in a previous thread that 7 or 8 out of the 10 busiest intercontinental routes originating in Italy are shorter from Rome than Milan !
Furthermore FCO is perfectly located to be a ST hub for the Middle-East, Africa and the Indian Ocean, etc.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2013-07-15 04:50:00 and read 5203 times.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 13):


MXP really suffers from the same thing KIX deals with; a more convenient short haul airport (ITM and LIN) that siphons away high yield short haul, which precludes a full fledged hub from developing.

Yup. Not an identity crisis, a location crisis.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: mainMAN
Posted 2013-07-15 05:49:40 and read 4747 times.

Malpensa dates from a time, not so long ago, when if you wanted to travel long haul, you used Prestwick, Guarulhos, Mirabel (the three others I can think of). MXP was a similarly quiet facility, without many connections.

I've no doubt that had Linate been forced to close, Milan would now be Italy's primary hub, and not Rome.

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: wingflex744
Posted 2013-07-15 06:59:22 and read 4190 times.

Quoting reifel (Reply 3):
everything is pretty old and run down

let me say that there is a brand new pier in T1 which is quite decent and with 2 really beautiful lounges (1EK with direct boarding to their gates and 1 commonly used named after Eugenio MONTALE)

Quoting reifel (Reply 3):
Transfers do not seem to be encouraged, i.e. no airline is actually offering transfer counters at that airport, you need to get your onward boarding pass at the gate.

There are transfer desk at the beginning of each pier, depending on time of operations of course. Before CX, QR, SQ flights for example you get to see these transfer desks open and active assisting transit pax

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 13):
I would point out that MXP also has daily Beijing,Shanghai-Pudong, Hong Kong, now EK to JFK, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Doha, Tehran, Seoul Incheon, Beirut, Muscat, PIA to Islamabad and Lahore (direct flights with intermediate stops), Amman, Jeddah, Riyadh, Singapore, Baku, Tel Aviv, Bangkok, Newark, and Keflavik

Plus daily GRU and 4 times weekly BKK, overall not a bad network, it just isn't operated by the same carrier or by the same alliance which is indeed a bit weird...

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: JoeCattoli
Posted 2013-07-15 07:10:19 and read 4097 times.

BTW, the 3rd Runway project has been suspended, which is quite right given there doesn't seem to be a capacity constraint now and in the foreseeable future...

Ciao
Joe

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: reifel
Posted 2013-07-15 12:09:02 and read 2499 times.

Quoting wingflex744 (Reply 17):
There are transfer desk at the beginning of each pier, depending on time of operations of course. Before CX, QR, SQ flights for example you get to see these transfer desks open and active assisting transit pax

Thanks for the precisions, especially regarding T1. I only flew Schengen Alitalia and LH, as well as arrivung Non Schengen Alitalia and Saudia (but not departing), and found the airport outdated,dark and sometimes confusing. Honestly, I found Rome a nicer airport (although still pretty bad and involving quite long walks, but I use it to compare, since it's the major "hub" competitor in Italy). There are plus sides, too in MXP, i.e. at least when I flew I could always use jetbridges, other than in FCO where bussing seems to be regular, even when departing longhaul to Japan...

Back to transfer desks, indeed there are tons of desk, but most of them, and these include the most important ones: Alitalia, just have signs to grab boarding passes at the gate...

I do not say this is something that MXP has alone, other airports do have this as well, but you woud normally not get much of assistance from the airlines, which could potentially use this as a hub, when you're transiting. Nice that CX, QR and SQ do that, but these are not the airlines that will MXP a hub...

For me MXP is not a pleasant airport to transit through, there is not much to do, and not a real incentive for passengers to choose MXP i.e. over Amsterdam or even Paris, now that AF are getting their connecting flow way better than in the past there.

But then, why open transfer desks, offering transfer assistance etc if actually no airline really wants to use it as a hub? For CDG it might have been different: AF has and wants to use it as a hub and realized that they need to do someting about it, as they earned (deserve) bad reputation (which in my opinion they still have, although most people stating CDG is a pain never transited there in the last months).

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: mercure1
Posted 2013-07-15 14:32:04 and read 2320 times.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 5):
MXP needs to be AZ's main hub, not FCO. As already mentioned MXP involves far less back-tracking than FCO and is in a good central position to be a skyteam hub.

Maybe AZ needs a Milan base, but its not MXP. The Milan situation as explained many times over is not one of a single city and single airport.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 6):
The problem is that no one who actually lives in Milan wants to use MXP (unless it is really cheap).

  

Simply put, if you are visiting Milan proper, you can't beat Linate. With mere 5-10 minute taxi rides you are all over the city.

And for those looking for cheap options, don't forget Bergamo where Ryanair, Wizz and others have their operations. Some 45km from Milan, compared to 48km to Malpensa!

Topic: RE: MXP - An Airport With An Identity Crisis?
Username: lisbonbearuk
Posted 2013-07-16 10:12:09 and read 1987 times.

Are there any plans to improve the train link journey times between Milan and Malpensa? Average time of 40mins to travel 48km seems pretty slow to me.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/