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Topic: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 13:28:15 and read 22961 times.

It seems odd that some people here at A.net actually WANT airlines to remove IFE from their planes and force passengers to bring their own devices. However, far more people prefer to use the IFE system than their own devices, and in-flight Wi-Fi providers are losing money as we know it.

Unfortunately, the anti-IFE crowd makes the claim that in-flight Wi-Fi is the future. If that is the case, why are in-flight Wi-Fi providers such as Gogo bleeding cash as we know it? This A.net myth has to stop.

So, why do many A.netters here actually want airlines to go AGAINST what the majority of passengers prefer?

[Edited 2013-07-21 13:29:42]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: Indy
Posted 2013-07-21 13:38:05 and read 22926 times.

I suspect that it doesn't have anything to do with the IFE concept but rather the box that ends up taking up your very limited space under the seat in front of you. It is bad enough that the pitch in coach is terrible but then the airlines put the IFE box in the space where your feet are supposed to go. It makes an uncomfortable seat even worse. I've experienced that problem myself and I've heard that complain expressed by family members.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 13:39:09 and read 22872 times.

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
I suspect that it doesn't have anything to do with the IFE concept but rather the box that ends up taking up your very limited space under the seat in front of you. It is bad enough that the pitch in coach is terrible but then the airlines put the IFE box in the space where your feet are supposed to go. It makes an uncomfortable seat even worse. I've experienced that problem myself and I've heard that complain expressed by family members.

Luckily, IFE boxes are shrinking on newer systems.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: caribb
Posted 2013-07-21 13:45:12 and read 22778 times.

Oh God.. 1st world problems....   

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2013-07-21 13:45:35 and read 22768 times.

Perhaps you get onboard with the feeling that you've paid using the IFE, and so you feel compelled to actually use it. And then, you do not want to have it removed.

The IFE I want just features position, altitude, airspeed on a map and the 380 tail camera. My other IFE is reading and sleeping.


David

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 13:49:47 and read 22715 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
Perhaps you get onboard with the feeling that you've paid using the IFE, and so you feel compelled to actually use it. And then, you do not want to have it removed.

No, I am going based on my personal observations. In fact, on my recent DL trips, I have yet to see even a single passenger watching the streaming Wi-Fi movies using their own devices. Fact is, far more people prefer in-seat IFE for the convenience.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: PITingres
Posted 2013-07-21 13:56:30 and read 22579 times.

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
I suspect that it doesn't have anything to do with the IFE concept but rather the box that ends up taking up your very limited space under the seat in front of you.

This.

I've nothing against IFE per se. I loathe setups which eliminate my ability to put my laptop bag or even my feet underneath the seat in front of me. Fortunately the monster IFE box seems to be on the wane but I still run into them way too often.

[Edited 2013-07-21 13:57:30]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-07-21 13:57:57 and read 22569 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
It seems odd that some people here at A.net actually WANT airlines to remove IFE from their planes and force passengers to bring their own devices.

I can't recall much recent discussion that confirms your statement. Are you referring to something specific?

Personally, I have almost zero interest in IFE. The programming is usually second-rate and sometimes full of ads, and the systems are prone to failure and technical problems. I never consider IFE when booking flights. About the only thing I use is the map display to check the arrival times and sometimes the displays of connecting flights/gates prior to arrival.

On my last transatlantic flight (AC which has a fairly good IFE system), I noted quite a few passengers seated near me never used the IFE during the entire flight.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-21 14:06:08 and read 22447 times.

The issue is that product development in this category moves slowly because of the inconvenience and cost of refitting a fleet of aircraft. The technology exists now that should allow for IFE devices running stripped down versions of Android to stream all the data they need from a handful of boxes with hard drives, an SSD for caching and Debian software.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: EASTERN747
Posted 2013-07-21 14:06:17 and read 22449 times.

SOS Bitch when they have and bitch when they don't.......I'm getting sick of these drama queens. If you don't want it....don't turn it on....Please stop the crying!!!!! IMHO

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2013-07-21 14:16:56 and read 22324 times.

One reason is to get rid of box hurting foot on a A33x Y window seat. I was told that pesky box has something to do with IFE/Electronics.

Second, no one published SAR data of these screens so far. My personal feeling an LCD screen that close to your brain is not a good thing. Not trying to stir the pot, just my opinion.

[Edited 2013-07-21 15:10:35]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-07-21 14:18:36 and read 22305 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Luckily, IFE boxes are shrinking on newer systems.

   Emirates latest A380s for example have the IFE box built inside the seats instead of having the annoying box around your feet.

[Edited 2013-07-21 14:20:00]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: frmrcapcadet
Posted 2013-07-21 14:24:24 and read 22213 times.

I have never seen an IFE working well, or when it did work have something I wanted. I likely would use (and even pay for) a halfway decent Wi-Fi.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-07-21 14:48:19 and read 22019 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
However, far more people prefer to use the IFE system than their own devices, and in-flight Wi-Fi providers are losing money as we know it.

No one I know would prefer to use the IFE system rather than their own. Do you acually have any proof of your statement or is that just your opinion.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 14:59:41 and read 21916 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
No one I know would prefer to use the IFE system rather than their own. Do you acually have any proof of your statement or is that just your opinion.

Personal observations. Go onboard any DL aircraft with an in-seat IFE system, and those using the IFE system outnumber those using their own devices about 10:1.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: OA412
Posted 2013-07-21 15:03:38 and read 21871 times.

I think the better question is why you're seemingly taking this so personally. It's IFE for goodness sake, hardly something to get so worked up about. In general, the selection is crap and totally overpriced. Whenever I fly F9, I notice the vast majority of IFE units are not activated during flight. Personally, I couldn't care less about IFE since I always bring my own entertainment on board. I personally don't need in-seat IFE on a domestic hop.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, why do many A.netters here actually want airlines to go AGAINST what the majority of passengers prefer?

Source please.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
No, I am going based on my personal observations.

Oh I see, you don't actually have a source. You're presenting personal observations as statements of fact. Got it.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
In fact, on my recent DL trips, I have yet to see even a single passenger watching the streaming Wi-Fi movies using their own devices.

Did you walk up and down the aircraft and personally inspect what each passenger was doing?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
Fact is, far more people prefer in-seat IFE for the convenience.

It's not a fact. This is your opinion, which you are passing off as fact. There is a big, big difference between your own opinion and fact.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: dfambro
Posted 2013-07-21 15:06:26 and read 21834 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
No one I know would prefer to use the IFE system rather than their own.

There are some pretty good IFEs out there. I think the UA J class IFE is really good - good selection, good screen - I'd rather use that than my own device.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: sandyb123
Posted 2013-07-21 15:18:43 and read 21706 times.

I personally like IFE. I like knowing where I am, altitude, speed etc. on longer flights I appreciate the movies and content which I haven't brought onboard myself. Perhaps wouldn't be something I'd watch on the ground but there is only so much work one can do on a 6 hour + flight.

Sandyb123

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: BSRadar
Posted 2013-07-21 15:28:24 and read 21499 times.

Stop touch-screen games on seat-back IFE. 8 (or so) hours of United's MAN-EWR "entertainment" for the knuckled bozo "performing" on my seatback convinced me that IFE should be restricted. Surely I'm not alone - anybody else suffered this Repetitive Stress?

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 15:28:30 and read 21507 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
Oh I see, you don't actually have a source. You're presenting personal observations as statements of fact. Got it.

And why would my personal observations be false? Trust me, I have flown several DL AVOD flights, and with my very own eyes I saw far more people using the IFE than their own devices. It isn't like my eyes would lie.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-07-21 15:29:17 and read 21502 times.

The fact of the matter is that although PEDs are becoming more and more frequent, people carrying devices such as iPads laptops or anything suitable to watching entertainment on for any period of time are still very much in the minority and that's just in the developed world.

If airlines where to suddenly actively remove their IFE systems in favour of a wifi signal and encourage passengers to bring their own devices they could soon find themselves receiving the back of the consumers hand in a nasty PR failure!

If its one thing airlines cannot expect to get away with is alienating its market customer!

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: md80fanatic
Posted 2013-07-21 15:34:11 and read 21359 times.

I think it would do wonders for everyone's sanity to disconnect and relax for the duration of the flight. At most we are talking about 14 hours without internet, phones, movies, and games. One should be thankful for the peace and quiet ... that is unless one is a Borg and physically needs to be jacked in at all times.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2013-07-21 15:34:57 and read 21387 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
This A.net myth has to stop.

Maybe you should just threaten to sue everyone for defamation again. It worked the first time, right??  

Defamation Against The 767-400ER (by 1337Delta764 Jul 7 2011 in Site Related)

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: tharanga
Posted 2013-07-21 15:39:45 and read 21259 times.

I understand where the OP is coming from.

There are a handful of people on here who seem to like showing off how much they enjoy flying, by emphasizing they don't need IFE and by implicitly looking down on people who want IFE. I have noticed this tendency on here.

While I also don't like a big box taking up my under-seat storage space, I definitely enjoy the free TV on B6, and on an ultra long haul sector, the quality of IFE is definitely a factor in my choice of airline.

I like having the choice of the seatback screen, or using my own device. Using a personal device has its own problems - is there a power outlet (and does it work)? also it's somewhat more comfortable to look ahead at the seatback screen, than down at your own device. I pretty much only use my own device for doing work; I'd prefer the seatback IFE for entertainment purposes.

[Edited 2013-07-21 15:42:00]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: Klaus
Posted 2013-07-21 15:56:29 and read 20863 times.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 10):
Second, no one published SAR data of these screens so far. My personal feeling an LCD screen that close to your brain is not a good thing. Not trying to stir the pot, just my opinion.

You can pretty much forget about that. LCD screens use relatively low power at relatively low frequencies. I see no reason for concern on that front at all.

And even the much stronger electromagnetic fields from wirelessly connected devices have not found to be a hazard yet.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: CairnterriAIR
Posted 2013-07-21 16:00:02 and read 21518 times.

For me....my favorite form of IFE was sitting in cloth seats and watching "Old Yeller" on the big screen on the bulkhead of the Eastern L-1011 and listening to the audio through a plastic hollow headset. All while being served a full meal and having the choice of several magazines....not to mention a nice window to look out of.  

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-07-21 16:01:56 and read 21449 times.

I think it's a shame because a PTV at the very least makes time go faster on a plane. I actually get a kick out of airline audio -- it's fun to listen to music on take off and landing.

A lot of people who are defending the UA decision to remove IFE from 319/320 are simply just apologists in the long run. I think it's straight up a waste of money.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: gweilo88
Posted 2013-07-21 16:05:47 and read 21532 times.

I hate settling into my seat and finding a box blocking my space under the seat in front of me. I rarely use the IFE anyway and I have to sacrifice much of the the little room I have for other people's entertainment.

Rather than IFE, I would rather find a plane with an air nozzle at my seat.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-07-21 16:11:20 and read 21431 times.

I think you have mis-interpreted (or intentionally mis-represented) the majority of the "anti IFE" crowd, as you call them.

Very few posters are completely against IFE, but rather recognise that the pace of technological change means that seatback PTVs will be completely obsolete in less than a decade.

If customer preference doesn't kill them (which could well happen, regardless of your "facts") then the cost of oil will. The fact is that handheld streaming systems weigh a fraction of nothing compared to PTV systems, yes even the new ones.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 22):
Maybe you should just threaten to sue everyone for defamation again. It worked the first time, right??

Oh god, I hadn't sean that thread before! Maybe the OP is just trolling. If not, then at least we know where we stand with his "facts", as what he purports in that thread as "ABSOLUTE FACT" has been denied by Boeing  

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-07-21 16:11:32 and read 21415 times.

The simple answer is that many of the people on a.net are nerds who will never have a girlfriend, let alone children, and so don't have to ask themselves "do I really want to transport 4 expensive devices on vacation, and how am I going to keep them safe and secure?"

In addition, many of them are Americans who are used to domestic travel and appalling entertainment options which trail the international market norms by around 10-15 years.

I travel a lot. And on my preferred long-haul airlines, my iPad mini never even comes out of its case, because they have more than enough IFE options to keep me happy without me running down my battery or risking having my device damaged or stolen in a confined space.

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 25):
For me....my favorite form of IFE was sitting in cloth seats and watching "Old Yeller" on the big screen on the bulkhead of the Eastern L-1011 and listening to the audio through a plastic hollow headset. All while being served a full meal and having the choice of several magazines....not to mention a nice window to look out of

Funny you should say that. The market findings on Australia-Hawaii flights (which are of similar length to Chicago-Hawaii) and indeed what Virgin Australia has found on domestic flights above 2.5 hours in length are:

1) Passengers want included IFE, and
2) Passengers want included meal and beverage services, and
3) They will pay a premium for that superior experience.

American consumers APPEAR to be the exception to this, but it's impossible to say because they have an anti-competitive market structure of airlines dominating their hubs and acting in lockstep with one another to remove all amenities roughly at the same time as one another. So it's actually almost impossible to know whether the appalling domestic product is what they want or what a quasi-monopoly inflicts upon them.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: silentbob
Posted 2013-07-21 16:15:10 and read 21292 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 29):

1) Passengers want included IFE, and
2) Passengers want included meal and beverage services, and
3) They will pay a premium for that superior experience.
Quoting koruman (Reply 29):
American consumers APPEAR to be the exception to this...

The largest percentage of American travelers want the lowest priced ticket. Sure, they want IFE and food and dancing girls in the aisle, as long as it doesn't cost them any more than the ticket that has none of those things. Naturally, they will complain about the quality of food, IFE choices and attractiveness of the girls if they do somehow get them for free.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: B747400ERF
Posted 2013-07-21 16:18:26 and read 21205 times.

I don't need an onboard system, I can read a book or look out the window, relax and enjoy the ride, or *gasp* hear my own head think. I am worried about this generation that cannot put an electronic down and needs to have a 24/7 adrenaline rush.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2013-07-21 16:20:04 and read 21228 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, why do many A.netters here actually want airlines to go AGAINST what the majority of passengers prefer?

I do 100 to 150 segments a year, and it doesn't take long to see everything on one company's IFE system (at least on Air Canada, I finish the English-language programming and then start watching French-language programming). A lot of my trips are on RJs -- even yesterday's IAH-MIA and MIA-ORD. If I need a Kindle and an MP3 for one plane, I might was well use it on every plane.

Besides -- watching IFE isn't the reason I fly -- nor the reason for the millions who fly the LCCs.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2013-07-21 16:20:59 and read 21168 times.

As IFE starts to take a back seat to passenger individual smart phones might actually be good. It places more pressure on the FAA to authorized limited personal calls on a smart device inflight.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: silentbob
Posted 2013-07-21 16:31:37 and read 20998 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 33):
It places more pressure on the FAA to authorized limited personal calls on a smart device inflight.

Oh god, I hope not. Those calls were actually banned by the FCC last time I checked, though I know they have said that they are open to changing that regulation

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2013-07-21 16:34:25 and read 20928 times.

I believe that IFE will stay in First and Business Class. But due to space and weight considerations, IFE will likely vanish on Economy class, replaced by in-flight high-speed Wi-Fi.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: OA412
Posted 2013-07-21 16:57:20 and read 20528 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
And why would my personal observations be false? Trust me, I have flown several DL AVOD flights, and with my very own eyes I saw far more people using the IFE than their own devices. It isn't like my eyes would lie.

You seem to have a difficult time grasping what I'm saying, so I'll try it just one more time. You offer up several statements of purported fact such as:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
far more people prefer to use the IFE system than their own devices
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, why do many A.netters here actually want airlines to go AGAINST what the majority of passengers prefer
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
Fact is, far more people prefer in-seat IFE for the convenience.

Then you say this:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
No, I am going based on my personal observations.

You can't claim these things as absolute truths simply because you personally observed it happening. You can claim the above as absolute fact if you have surveys and studies supporting what you are saying. Your own personal observation is a completely unsicentific sampling of a group of passengers on a handful of flights. For instance, it is my own personal observation that people don't like umbrellas because the majority of people I see walking in the rain are not using them. Do you see how absurd that statement is? That is what you are doing by suggesting that what you have observed on your handful of flights is the absolute truth.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 22):
Maybe you should just threaten to sue everyone for defamation again. It worked the first time, right??  

Defamation Against The 767-400ER (by 1337Delta764 Jul 7 2011 in Site Related)

Oh jesus. That's one I missed the first time around. Time for a good laugh!

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2013-07-21 17:08:47 and read 20303 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 29):
Passengers want included IFE

Passengers want programming(both complimentary and paid) thru WiFi but they just want to bring their own device. If I can watch on my own high-def tablet, why would I want a crappy LCD with such low resolution. May be a tablet holder on seat back would be welcome addition. Imagine loosing all those cables, in particular once with wired remote.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 17:14:08 and read 20257 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):

Well, the fact that in-flight Wi-Fi providers are losing money as we know it doesn't convince you that that it is a failing concept? Plus, IFE systems are becoming more advanced and lightweight. If IFE was on its way out there wouldn't be any continued advancement of IFE systems.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: jetsetter1969
Posted 2013-07-21 17:24:57 and read 20016 times.

I fly regularly for work anywhere between 2hr and 15hr legs and at 6ft and 110kg I appreciate every bit of leg room I can get but on long sectors I do like the IFE. I carry my laptop with me but after 2hrs it is flat so where do i charge it on a 15hr flight? I enjoy looking down and checking out the view and working out where I am then comparing it to the flight map but what if you are overwater, its night or cloud cover? I dont have to get an electronic entertainment fix as i bring a magazine or 2 but on the long flights IFE can be a blessing.

Some Qantas 767s on domestic flights have Ipads with IFE live streaming to them which i find quite effective and no box in the way from what my feet feel.

I have suffered the person banging away on a touch screen game on the the back of my seat but also have had bored kids kicking it and screaming and wrestling so i would take the IFE with the kids happily killing some alien or whatever is the trend these days.


Just my 5 cents worth

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: johns624
Posted 2013-07-21 17:26:31 and read 19960 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
I think the better question is why you're seemingly taking this so personally. It's IFE for goodness sake, hardly something to get so worked up about

Exactly. He's actually started a few threads on different types of IFE, stating models and makes.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: lhcabincrew
Posted 2013-07-21 17:33:57 and read 19881 times.

From my own observations (I work as cabin crew) I have to say that PAX in FIRST or BUS often don't really use them. However in ECO on long-haul's they seem to be happily welcomed by most of our customers. Imagine these old days when you had this big screen in every 20 rows. NAHHHH. IFE is a good technical invention to make your flight a little bit more comfortable. And if you don't want to use it, simply switch it off.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2013-07-21 18:10:05 and read 19248 times.

I have to say, I'm a bigger fan of wifi than IFE. On WiFi I can do whatever I want. If they could just add streaming to that, I might use it. An iPad runs 10 hours on a full charge. You will rarely need 10 full hours on a flight and maybe they can put in some USB ports every few seats.

That said, some passengers don't have tablets. If they can come up with an IFE system that doesn't have the box, then great. But as an airline executive, I might eliminate the IFE, put in USB, and offer WiFi with streaming video (the video content can be stored onboard in a drive the size of a deck of cards and weighing about as much, so it need use no bandwidth except for the trickle of data needed for credit card transactions and the like). Rent out tablets to passengers who don't have their own, just like they used to do with headphones.  

You could make a lot of revenue, cost-effectively maintain a state-of-the-art product, and save a lot of money on fuel and wiring all in one swoop.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: jc2354
Posted 2013-07-21 18:27:22 and read 18953 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 26):
A lot of people who are defending the UA decision to remove IFE from 319/320 are simply just apologists in the long run.

I didn't know about this. What was UA's reasoning, weight?

I remember when US removed their systems on their 319 and 320 and I don't think anybody even noticed.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-07-21 18:32:34 and read 18924 times.

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 43):
I didn't know about this. What was UA's reasoning, weight?

UA is not removing IFE from the A319/A320 fleet. UA is removing the overhead video and installing, new seats, WiFi, power ports and onboard streaming video servers with the same content as you find on the AVOD systems. They are well along with installing the WiFi systems, start installing the power ports early next year and should turn on the streaming video system later this year.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-07-21 18:38:35 and read 18775 times.

Quoting jetsetter1969 (Reply 39):
I fly regularly for work anywhere between 2hr and 15hr legs and at 6ft and 110kg I appreciate every bit of leg room I can get but on long sectors I do like the IFE. I carry my laptop with me but after 2hrs it is flat so where do i charge it on a 15hr flight?
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 38):
Well, the fact that in-flight Wi-Fi providers are losing money as we know it doesn't convince you that that it is a failing concept?
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 37):
Passengers want programming(both complimentary and paid) thru WiFi but they just want to bring their own device. If I can watch on my own high-def tablet, why would I want a crappy LCD with such low resolution

Maybe you only fly very short-haul? And maybe you don't have a family?

My most recent sectors in the USA were:
LAX-IAH-CUN
CUN-IAH-IND
IND-ORD-SNA
IND-ORD-HNL
IND-ORD-SFO-LIH

The chances of my tablet battery surviving any of those journeys apart from the first and second are basically minimal. And the chances of my being able to recharge it during a connection at a hub are minimal too. And that's even before my kids start leaving a tablet in the seatback in front of us, or dropping their tablet, or getting it wet, etc etc.

Those of us why fly to/from Hawaii are well aware that US carriers tend to provide a one-size fits all domestic product whether your flight last 45 minutes or 10 hours.

I quite like seatback IFE, not least because it is gate-to-gate. As I've explained, on longer sectors I much prefer built-in IFE to bring-your-own.

But on short flights too I hate that if you use your own device you basically lose out of 30 minutes.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 30):
The largest percentage of American travelers want the lowest priced ticket. Sure, they want IFE and food and dancing girls in the aisle, as long as it doesn't cost them any more than the ticket that has none of those things

Yes, American consumers may be different. Given your a.net handle, please look up on Youtube the British comedians Harry and Paul, and their spoof American car dealers Bob and Bob. But personally I do not believe that American flyers are that primitive or unsophisticated in their buying habits: I prefer to think that they are prisoners of an anti-competitive aviation market which enforces low standards upon them in a manner similar to Soviet-era Aeroflot.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-07-21 18:54:56 and read 18517 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 44):

They are removing IFE -- audio, video, channel 9. Right now all that is available is WiFi and the power ports are not activated yet.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: robsol
Posted 2013-07-21 18:55:59 and read 18495 times.

People want IFE that works. On my last 2 DL flights IFE cut off at least 4 times. On one leg I couldn't even finish the movie. If Gogo wasn't so stupidly expensive everyone would use it. I'm sorry but at $10 per hour I'd rather read a book and have that box removed. There is no reason IFE should be so expensive. Provide power at each seat and remove the IFE.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: cschleic
Posted 2013-07-21 18:59:03 and read 18453 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 33):
It places more pressure on the FAA to authorized limited personal calls on a smart device inflight.

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anything but that!


From my observations watching other passengers, many use their laptops, and many have tablets for watching their own movies or reading a book. I often use a laptop to work, but like IFE for the map/flight info, plus some TV shows and occasional movies. But all the ads definitely are annoying, especially those luxury car tests on Delta planes that you can't turn off. Ugh.

As for the boxes under seats, fortunately seatguru points them out (to the degree it's accurate).

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-07-21 19:02:27 and read 18358 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
An iPad runs 10 hours on a full charge. You will rarely need 10 full hours on a flight and maybe they can put in some USB ports every few seats.

That said, some passengers don't have tablets

Firstly, if you're trying to watch streaming video then you're lucky to get 4 hours on an iPad and 2 hours on an iPhone. Very lucky.

Secondly, I would be very, very cautious about this in the USA. The stripping out of food onboard in economy class in the USA means that increasingly when I catch a plane in the USA my neighbours are stinking out the joint with their airport fast food, often including oversized drinks. Tablets don't like moisture, and twice in recent years I've been soaked by my neighbour on domestic flights in the USA.

Which means, of course, that people with no IFE will use their tablet or smartphone - especially if there is free streaming content. And apart from getting them wet, they will put them in the seatback in front of them, and a substantial proportion will forget to take it with them.

On my recent LAX-IAH and ORD-SNA flights it was great that the whole family could enjoy the IFE (well, we were in First Class, but that's another story). I wouldn't like to have been responsible the night before for charging multiple tablets. And when I fly back on 2 hour flights from MEL to OOL or BNE in Australia after a business meeting, my iPad is usually at best 30% charged at the outset.

Streaming IFE is horrible. I've encountered it on Scoot Business Class and Virgin Australia Economy Class, and I hate it.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-07-21 19:05:18 and read 18347 times.

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 43):
I didn't know about this. What was UA's reasoning, weight?

As United1 said, UA are - over the next 12 months - adding power ports to ever seat and offering what amounts to AVOD.

For some reason a certain poster is upset that they are removing overhead screens where you are forced to watch whatever crap the airline wants you to watch.

Quoting United1 (Reply 44):
UA is not removing IFE from the A319/A320 fleet. UA is removing the overhead video and installing, new seats, WiFi, power ports and onboard streaming video servers with the same content as you find on the AVOD systems. They are well along with installing the WiFi systems, start installing the power ports early next year and should turn on the streaming video system later this year.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: jah718
Posted 2013-07-21 19:19:12 and read 18047 times.

Quoting caribb (Reply 3):
Oh God.. 1st world problems....   

I live in the first world, why would my problems be anything but first world.

As far as IFE goes, I prefer to use the airlines offering; it is all well and good saying that its better to bring your own when you have an ipad and a big paycheck. For everyone else, we rely on what the airline can provide for entertainment.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: CONTACREW
Posted 2013-07-21 19:21:29 and read 17808 times.

I've come to the conclusion that if nobody agrees that the 764 is the greatest aircraft ever built, or if in-seat IFE is the most popular thing about flying since the jet age, well then the OP basically will call you a liar and try to pass off his opinions as fact.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-07-21 19:21:59 and read 17792 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
far more people prefer to use the IFE system than their own devices

False.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
Do you acually have any proof of your statement or is that just your opinion.

As we suspected, it's his opinion only.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):No, I am going based on my personal observations.
Oh I see, you don't actually have a source. You're presenting personal observations as statements of fact. Got it.

This.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
And why would my personal observations be false?

Because entire companies are now basing their IFE solutions (and purchasing decisions!) on the customer-owned device model rather than relying on seatback-integrated units. Customers generally prefer their own devices because they're familiar with them, can only fault themselves when they're not in good working order, and these devices are already onboard anyway, meaning the airline can avoid a weight penalty (and associated fuel burn) from installing costly, heavy seatback-mounted IFE.

Or are you saying you're smarter than these companies and the airlines they're selling to?

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: jetsetter1969
Posted 2013-07-21 19:26:48 and read 17682 times.

Quoting Koruman "Maybe you only fly very short-haul? And maybe you don't have a family?"

I flew SYD- Abu Dhabi-SYD (14-15hrs) on Etihad 346 monthly for 2 years. Domestically SYD- PER (3.5 to 5hrs) on QF 332, 333 or 763. I enjoy IFE and prior to Virgin having it on their domestic flights I chose QF for the IFE in part. It would be good if it was updated more regularly as you do tend to see just about all they have to offer when you fly more regularly.

My family is irrelevant to my point as most of my travel is for business although I do agree with your assertion about charging and carrying multiple tablets and the risk of loss/ theft on a trip.

I do prefer the streaming IFE on the QF 767 Ipads to their small early a330 screen

cheers

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-07-21 19:34:56 and read 17521 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 23):
There are a handful of people on here who seem to like showing off how much they enjoy flying, by emphasizing they don't need IFE and by implicitly looking down on people who want IFE. I have noticed this tendency on here.

Hah!

Quoting koruman (Reply 29):
The simple answer is that many of the people on a.net are nerds who will never have a girlfriend, let alone children, and so don't have to ask themselves "do I really want to transport 4 expensive devices on vacation, and how am I going to keep them safe and secure?"

Hysterical! I love it ... wait a moment, that sounds like me ...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 28):
Very few posters are completely against IFE, but rather recognise that the pace of technological change means that seatback PTVs will be completely obsolete in less than a decade.

I too have read some posts on A.net over the years advocating the elimination of IFE. In reading the varied posts, I took away the sentiment that IFE is yesterday's technology and will never be as functional or provide as wide a degree of entertainment/features as a person's own laptop or iPad. My observation - which I am happy to state despite not having conducted any surveys, being employed by one of the airlines or IFE providers, or having a degree in statistics - is that few use passengers use their iPads in flight. I just don't see it that often. One issue of course in Y is the lack of space - I have a laptop (which is also yesterday's technology I admit) but there is no way I can open that up and work on it in a Y seat. I do enjoy the IFE on planes even if I only watch the map feature!

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 19:35:54 and read 17561 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 53):
False.

Nope, absolutely true.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 53):
Because entire companies are now basing their IFE solutions (and purchasing decisions!) on the customer-owned device model rather than relying on seatback-integrated units. Customers generally prefer their own devices because they're familiar with them, can only fault themselves when they're not in good working order, and these devices are already onboard anyway, meaning the airline can avoid a weight penalty (and associated fuel burn) from installing costly, heavy seatback-mounted IFE.Or are you saying you're smarter than these companies and the airlines they're selling to?

False. While your beloved UA seems to think so, DL obviously disagrees, and plans on having AVOD on ALL 100 of its 739ERs, as well as retrofitting its 753s with AVOD. DL is not stupid, and has a much smarter product manager than UA ever had. Furthermore, if there was no future for in-seat IFE, neither Panasonic nor Thales would be further enhancing its systems and would focus entirely on Wi-Fi. And the fact that in-flight Wi-Fi providers continue to lose money is a clear argument against what you believe.

[Edited 2013-07-21 19:41:06]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-07-21 19:36:28 and read 17490 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 46):
Quoting United1 (Reply 44):

They are removing IFE -- audio, video, channel 9. Right now all that is available is WiFi and the power ports are not activated yet.

....I'm not sure why you are getting worked up over drop down LCD screens that are of varying quality, channel 9 (a service that usually isn't active I'm afraid) and 10 or 11 audio channels that may or may not have anything you like on them. If you happen to be on the 1 UA A320 that has had the overhead video system removed so far then perhaps I can offer a few suggestions: read a book, watch the clouds float by, talk to your neighbor, listen to your iPod, watch a movie on your iPad or even take a nap.

While inseat video is nice (when, most of the time, it works properly) the system UA is installing on the A319/A320 is really quite nice and should be even more reliable than the inseat video systems are. For one simple reason...you are providing the playback device (cellphone tablet laptop) and you will take care of your device vs the airlines equipment which is beat to hell by the passengers that use it.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-21 19:36:38 and read 17477 times.

As it turns out, the QF streaming service is almost exactly what I had in mind for a viable modern IFE. I still like my screen attached to the seat in front as on my most recent TATL the passenger in front of me was really trying to get a fully flat bed in economy, so using my laptop was impossible and looking down at the tray table with my tablet on for hours on end would cause the worst neckache ever.

Tablet + streaming server + headrest mount = perfect solution.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-07-21 19:48:03 and read 17296 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 56):
DL obviously disagrees, and plans on having AVOD on ALL 100 of its 739ERs, as well as retrofitting its 753s with AVOD.

...but notice they are not retrofitting it to the A319/A320 most 752s, most 738's, 717s, MD90s and of course the MD88s. Why is that you ask because at the end of the day there is no ROI for DL.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 56):
Furthermore, if there was no future in in-seat IFE, neither Panasonic nor Thales would be further enhancing its systems and would focus entirely on Wi-Fi. And the fact that in-flight Wi-Fi providers continue to lose money is a clear argument against what you believe.

Actually while both Thales and Panasonic are continuing to develop inseat AVOD systems Panasonic at least is also branching out into WiFi and onboard streaming video. United WiFi (as the system is branded) is actually a Panasonic product.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 56):
DL is not stupid, and has a much smarter product manager than UA ever had.

No DL is not stupid but it might interest you to know, if you can put down the fanboy glasses for a moment, that UA has more aircraft equipped with inseat video then AA, B6 or DL...

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-07-21 19:49:28 and read 17258 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):

Source please.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
No, I am going based on my personal observations.

Oh I see, you don't actually have a source. You're presenting personal observations as statements of fact. Got it.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
In fact, on my recent DL trips, I have yet to see even a single passenger watching the streaming Wi-Fi movies using their own devices.

Did you walk up and down the aircraft and personally inspect what each passenger was doing?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
Fact is, far more people prefer in-seat IFE for the convenience.

It's not a fact. This is your opinion, which you are passing off as fact. There is a big, big difference between your own opinion and fact.

I don't think you have any credible evidence except to support your hypothesis of people choosing IFE over their own devices. I for one prefer to have the WIFI to stream movies or other content. The space beneath the seats is a precious commodity. If you don't want to have WIFI, than don't use your computer. If you do want it, than it is available. To me it should be all about the choice you should have.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 19:51:48 and read 17282 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 59):
...but notice they are not retrofitting it to the A319/A320 most 752s, most 738's, 717s, MD90s and of course the MD88s. Why is that you ask because at the end of the day there is no ROI for DL.

Yet DL has replaced the overhead CRTs on its 752s with LCDs. DL could have easily chose to remove the IFE systems outright from them, however, they chose to freshen it up instead.

Quoting United1 (Reply 59):
No DL is not stupid but it might interest you to know, if you can put down the fanboy glasses for a moment, that UA has more aircraft equipped with inseat video then AA, B6 or DL...

Except that you have to pay for it, unlike DL who offers the live TV part of the system for free on domestic routes within the continental United States.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 60):
I don't think you have any credible evidence except to support your hypothesis of people choosing IFE over their own devices. I for one prefer to have the WIFI to stream movies or other content. The space beneath the seats is a precious commodity. If you don't want to have WIFI, than don't use your computer. If you do want it, than it is available. To me it should be all about the choice you should have.

But why should airlines force one option on passengers rather than giving them the choice? Fact is, on all of my recent DL AVOD flights, those using the IFE system outnumbered those using their own devices about 10:1, and I can swear this to God with all of my heart. I would not lie about this. Plus, bandwidth is an issue if everyone were to use their own devices to watch streaming video.

[Edited 2013-07-21 19:55:20]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: christao17
Posted 2013-07-21 19:54:45 and read 17171 times.

You and I have gone back and forth on this subject in another thread. I feel like I should clarify that I don't necessarily *want* IFE to be removed - I like having as many entertainment options as possible - but from a business perspective, I think it makes more financial sense for the airlines to remove the heavy IFE systems and provide only a power outlet and wi-fi, at least for economy class where IFE is not as big a factor as ticket price.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: CONTACREW
Posted 2013-07-21 19:58:13 and read 17121 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
Yet DL has replaced the overhead CRTs on its 752s with LCDs. DL could have easily chose to remove the IFE systems outright from them, however, they chose to freshen it up instead.

But it isn't AVOD.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
DL who offers the live TV part of the system for free on domestic routes within the continental United States.

Except you have to pay to access the premium content such as HBO, or watch movies on domestic flights.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 20:02:19 and read 17106 times.

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 63):
Except you have to pay to access the premium content such as HBO, or watch movies on domestic flights.

True, but this still beats UA's offering. And on flights to the Caribbean and Hawaii, the movies and games are free.

[Edited 2013-07-21 20:02:55]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: nwcoflyer
Posted 2013-07-21 20:03:31 and read 17060 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 56):
False. While your beloved UA seems to think so, DL obviously disagrees, and plans on having AVOD on ALL 100 of its 739ERs, as well as retrofitting its 753s with AVOD. DL is not stupid, and has a much smarter product manager than UA ever had. Furthermore, if there was no future for in-seat IFE, neither Panasonic nor Thales would be further enhancing its systems and would focus entirely on Wi-Fi. And the fact that in-flight Wi-Fi providers continue to lose money is a clear argument against what you believe.

Well your thread was obviously some kind of bait to remind us of how "great" DL is with their IFE options. Honestly, I really dont care about watching TV for 12 hours on a 12 hour flight. Most long hauls I watch tv for maybe one or two hours, eat and drink for another hour and sleep the rest of the way.

IF UA is so bad people will avoid UA and they will lose a lot of money... but I dont think this is a deciding factor for most customers. Most people want to get to their destination for as cheap as possible, with a schedule that fits their needs, and of course they want their bag and to arrive ontime safely.

Yes... IFE is an extra perk. Form a business perspective it doesnt make a lot of sense...

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-07-21 20:04:45 and read 17079 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
Quoting United1 (Reply 59):
No DL is not stupid but it might interest you to know, if you can put down the fanboy glasses for a moment, that UA has more aircraft equipped with inseat video then AA, B6 or DL...

Except that you have to pay for it, unlike DL who offers the live TV part of the system for free on domestic routes within the continental United States.

....depends on the system. AVOD on UA is free worldwide....DirecTv is of course charged for ($6-$8 depending on the length of the flight.) UA also gives you around a 100 channels plus some prerecorded movies for your $6-$8 vs DLs 15 channels or so of LiveTv....and if you want to watch a movie on DL (the non LiveTv part of the system) it's $6....a movie.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
Yet DL has replaced the overhead CRTs on its 752s with LCDs. DL could have easily chose to remove the IFE systems outright from them, however, they chose to freshen it up instead.

....yeah because that's a cheap and quick solution for DL to do. They can see a ROI on replacing the CRTs with LCDs as they are cheaper to maintain. Probably cheaper to do that then to rip them out actually....certainly cheaper then installing AVOD or streaming video.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-07-21 20:15:00 and read 16919 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 64):
Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 63):
Except you have to pay to access the premium content such as HBO, or watch movies on domestic flights.

True, but this still beats UA's offering. And on flights to the Caribbean and Hawaii, the movies and games are free.

...that's a matter of opinion. DLs offering while partially free is very limited....UA gives you a lot more options....

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 63):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
Yet DL has replaced the overhead CRTs on its 752s with LCDs. DL could have easily chose to remove the IFE systems outright from them, however, they chose to freshen it up instead.

But it isn't AVOD.

if IFE was so important to DL why didn't they retrofit it to the 319/320, MD90 or even the 717 fleet which is just starting to come online?

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 20:16:09 and read 16920 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 66):
....yeah because that's a cheap and quick solution for DL to do. They can see a ROI on replacing the CRTs with LCDs as they are cheaper to maintain. Probably cheaper to do that then to rip them out actually....certainly cheaper then installing AVOD or streaming video.

However, many of these 757s are due to be replaced soon by the 739ERs (which will include AVOD from the factory), and considering this, it probably didn't make much sense to install AVOD on them (most of the newer PMDL 757s already have AVOD installed).

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: CONTACREW
Posted 2013-07-21 20:18:35 and read 16854 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 67):
if IFE was so important to DL why didn't they retrofit it to the 319/320, MD90 or even the 717 fleet which is just starting to come online?

Exactly but I was pointing that out since the OP seems to be so stuck on AVOD etc.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-07-21 20:28:07 and read 16723 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 68):
However, many of these 757s are due to be replaced soon by the 739ERs (which will include AVOD from the factory), and considering this, it probably didn't make much sense to install AVOD on them (most of the newer PMDL 757s already have AVOD installed).

48 of the domestic (ex Song) 752s have AVOD, and the 18 752s that are equipped with Business Elite have AVOD installed...that's it. Most of the exSong birds are not that new (some are circa 1985....ie ln 64, 65 & 66 ...fully half are pre 1990) and will probably be replaced by the 739ER order.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 20:35:12 and read 16652 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 67):
if IFE was so important to DL why didn't they retrofit it to the 319/320, MD90 or even the 717 fleet which is just starting to come online?

The 717s are due to the fact that the routes that they will fly will be too short to warrant it (since they will mostly be used to replace RJ flying to some cities). As for the Airbuses and the MD-90s, I expect that DL will make an announcement once the 753s are done. The 753s are higher priority since they will be replacing a lot of domestic 763 flying once the 739ERs come in.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-07-21 20:38:22 and read 16582 times.

Quoting caribb (Reply 3):
Oh God.. 1st world problems....   

LOL

Quoting md80fanatic (Reply 21):

I think it would do wonders for everyone's sanity to disconnect and relax for the duration of the flight. At most we are talking about 14 hours without internet, phones, movies, and games. One should be thankful for the peace and quiet ... that is unless one is a Borg and physically needs to be jacked in at all times.

Sadly people cant allow a minute to ponder about life, meditate, think or simply disconnect themselves..

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 25):
For me....my favorite form of IFE was sitting in cloth seats and watching "Old Yeller" on the big screen on the bulkhead of the Eastern L-1011 and listening to the audio through a plastic hollow headset. All while being served a full meal and having the choice of several magazines....not to mention a nice window to look out of.  

oh! those were the days were IFE was looking out the winddow and marvel at the beauty of the world and flying at 40K feet...

Quoting jetsetter1969 (Reply 39):
I fly regularly for work anywhere between 2hr and 15hr legs and at 6ft and 110kg I appreciate every bit of leg room I can get but on long sectors I do like the IFE. I carry my laptop with me but after 2hrs it is flat so where do i charge it on a 15hr flight? I enjoy looking down and checking out the view and working out where I am then comparing it to the flight map but what if you are overwater, its night or cloud cover? I dont have to get an electronic entertainment fix as i bring a magazine or 2 but on the long flights IFE can be a blessing.

for long trips
with nothing to see outside, there are things called BOOKS, they are quite entertaining....

I think IFE is great, nut one thing I cant stand is 20 people playing Candy crush at 2 am and making so much noise I could not sleep...

And yes those nasty boxes under the seats are HELL.

TRB

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-07-21 20:41:52 and read 16557 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 71):
As for the Airbuses and the MD-90s, I expect that DL will make an announcement once the 753s are done.

....according to the fanboys on here DL has supposed to announce nose to tail AVOD on all of those aircraft since the merger closed in 2008. Meh....I am going to offer you a different expectation that I have....there is no profit in it for DL to retrofit those aircraft with IFE and as such they never will.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 71):
The 717s are due to the fact that the routes that they will fly will be too short to warrant it (since they will mostly be used to replace RJ flying to some cities)

....finally I think you have said something that everyone on this thread agrees with.... 

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: silentbob
Posted 2013-07-21 20:46:00 and read 16470 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 45):
But personally I do not believe that American flyers are that primitive or unsophisticated in their buying habits:

Never let your personal beliefs trump empirical evidence. If airlines could make more money by providing better IFE (or food or leg room or etc...) they would start re-configuring planes tomorrow.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-07-21 21:03:12 and read 16278 times.

IFE is wonderful for keeping the type of passenger who won't bring out a tablet/laptop pacified. Yep, I'm talking that traveling drunk. They won't let you read a book (because somehow that isn't 'doing something.') But put on headphones and the IFE, and they'll leave you alone (even if you just found a background music channel).

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):

I suspect that it doesn't have anything to do with the IFE concept but rather the box that ends up taking up your very limited space under the seat in front of you.

Who is that bad? I've flown B6 quite a few times and never found a space constraint. Whose systems are taking up space? As noted above, EK has been moving the boxes up into the seats...

Quoting caribb (Reply 3):

Oh God.. 1st world problems....

  

Quoting frmrcapcadet (Reply 12):
I have never seen an IFE working well, or when it did work have something I wanted.

Its rare it doesn't work. Which airlines? B6 and Westjet have usually had good IFE.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
No one I know would prefer to use the IFE system rather than their own. Do you acually have any proof of your statement or is that just your opinion.

If your own has run out of content that interests... e.g., the IFE often has life entertainment (e.g., sports). I've often seen people put down their tablets for that.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 14):
ersonal observations. Go onboard any DL aircraft with an in-seat IFE system, and those using the IFE system outnumber those using their own devices about 10:1.

  
I often use the IFE over my tablet. At least the free content...

Quoting silentbob (Reply 74):
Never let your personal beliefs trump empirical evidence. If airlines could make more money by providing better IFE (or food or leg room or etc...) they would start re-configuring planes tomorrow.

   I personally believe it has to do with the marketing. B6 and VX put IFE in the forefront of their advertisements and thus attract customers with a preference.

At first, I thought IFE was Orwellian. My first experience was a VS 747 to London. Having 400 people staring at a 4" screen( yes...    ) was something out of a dystopian movie. But when, about six hours into the flight, I noticed how much more pleasant the trip was due to passenger pacification, I appreciated the benefit.

I also really like the onboard maps. My one wish is more control over the onboard map!   


Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 21:07:26 and read 16208 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 75):
I also really like the onboard maps. My one wish is more control over the onboard map!

DL has recently updated the iXplor software on its IFE systems, and now you can interactively pan and zoom the maps, as well as display the flight stats whenever you want.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: timpdx
Posted 2013-07-21 21:28:05 and read 15889 times.

Is UA really getting rid of Channel 9? I flew SFO to EWR recently and it was simply astonishing listening to ATC vector in all the aircraft on a busy evening. It was just non stop action, hardly any dead air, those guys/gals are amazing....like a Vegas card dealer dealing Blackjack...I listened in for a good hour all the way down to final. Such a shame to see it go.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-07-21 21:28:41 and read 15840 times.

The gist of what I read in this thread is that being entertained at all times seems to be a priority for many.. being connected to social media and the internet, or watching movies, etc. seems to be a necessity rather than an optional activity.

Several things I dislike about IFE, channel surfers, flickering lights, ear phones turned up so the next seat can hear.

Maybe it's not entertainment we seek, but a method to avoid interactions with others.. I have the same feeling about the reclining/lay flat beds and enclosed suites..

for me it's a book, look out the window, watch human interaction but the I through out my TV 13 years ago and don't miss it at all... but to each his own..

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: CONTACREW
Posted 2013-07-21 21:30:39 and read 15832 times.

Quoting timpdx (Reply 77):
Is UA really getting rid of Channel 9? I flew SFO to EWR recently and it was simply astonishing listening to ATC vector in all the aircraft on a busy evening. It was just non stop action, hardly any dead air, those guys/gals are amazing....like a Vegas card dealer dealing Blackjack...I listened in for a good hour all the way down to final. Such a shame to see it go.

The reconfigured A319/A320s as well as the reconfigured "Hawaiian" 777s will be getting the channel 9 removed, however I believe the company is searching ways to integrate Channel 9 into the new entertainment systems.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-07-21 21:53:50 and read 15526 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 53):
Because entire companies are now basing their IFE solutions (and purchasing decisions!) on the customer-owned device model rather than relying on seatback-integrated units. Customers generally prefer their own devices because they're familiar with them, can only fault themselves when they're not in good working order, and these devices are already onboard anyway, meaning the airline can avoid a weight penalty (and associated fuel burn) from installing costly, heavy seatback-mounted IFE.

Or are you saying you're smarter than these companies and the airlines they're selling to?

Let's deconstruct those assertions one at a time........:


1. "Customers generally prefer their own devices because they're familiar with them, can only fault themselves when they're not in good working order".
NO, that sounds like the airline prefers being able to blame the passenger.

2. "devices are already onboard anyway, meaning the airline can avoid a weight penalty (and associated fuel burn) from installing costly, heavy seatback-mounted IFE."
NO, you used that as a reason why the "customers" prefer to use their own devices. But the argument you provided is actually why the airlines prefer pax to use their own devices.

There basically is no evidence to suggest that passengers prefer to bring their own devices rather than have the airline install contemporary AVOD.

But the demise of Connexion by Boeing and the poor results of GoGo and Scoot's streaming IFE make it abundantly clear that passengers despise having to do the airline's job and provide their own IFE.

In general, I would estimate that out of every 100 passengers onboard flights longer than 2 hours in the USA:
a) 20 have both a smartphone and a tablet onboard
b) 20 have a smartphone but no tablet.
c) 5 have a tablet but no smartphone.
d) 40 have neither a smartphone nor a tablet (especially kids and people over the age of 50).
e) 5-10 - depending upon the route - are foreign nationals who are unlikely to have brought their smartphones and who are highly restricted in terms of online payment in the USA (they can't even use their credit cards at the pump at the gas station).

In other words, being generous, 25 out of 100 might have the equipment to have a superior IFE experience through streaming rather than installed seatback video.

[Edited 2013-07-21 21:56:19]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 21:54:03 and read 15565 times.

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 79):
The reconfigured A319/A320s as well as the reconfigured "Hawaiian" 777s will be getting the channel 9 removed, however I believe the company is searching ways to integrate Channel 9 into the new entertainment systems.

Wow, a 777 without an IFE system? That is a worldwide first (not including cargo aircraft). Now the problem is: how will you be able to control the reading lights and FA calls? Typically on Boeing widebodies those functions are provided by the IFE system; overhead buttons are typically only found on Airbus widebodies. Will you need a personal device to do that too?

[Edited 2013-07-21 21:55:21]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-07-21 22:03:10 and read 15429 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
In fact, on my recent DL trips, I have yet to see even a single passenger watching the streaming Wi-Fi movies using their own devices. Fact is, far more people prefer in-seat IFE for the convenience.

I agree with you 100%. People on here scream everyone brings ipads, no one uses the PTVs constantly on here. All my observations are the opposite. Majority of the passengers are using PTVs when there and most passengers don't travel with tablets or have cell chargers just on them ready to go.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 38):
Well, the fact that in-flight Wi-Fi providers are losing money as we know it doesn't convince you that that it is a failing concept? Plus, IFE systems are becoming more advanced and lightweight. If IFE was on its way out there wouldn't be any continued advancement of IFE systems.

EXACTLY. PTVs will become lighter in weight over time and better.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-07-21 22:04:23 and read 15419 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 56):
Nope, absolutely true.

You have no fact/data to back this up. Do more people use IFE over personal devices, yes but that does not mean they prefer it that way. Some may not know its available, the prices may deter some, etc... there are many reasons the usage may favor IFE right now but that does not mean people prefer it.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 56):
DL is not stupid, and has a much smarter product manager than UA ever had.

Delta is making a decision they believe is right for DELTA. United is making a decision they believe is right for UNITED. They can both be right for their respective airlines. Take your fanboy glasses off for a second and just look at it from the middle.

Quoting christao17 (Reply 62):
but from a business perspective

I agree. I don't want it taken off but it makes sense from a business perspective to offer streaming On-Demand Movies and TV Shows, Games, shopping and a map from a personal device rather than have bulky equipment offering the same. Frankly if the pricing and offerings were the same, I would prefer it from my personal device.

I honestly think SWA is offering the best form of IFE right now with WiFi and Streaming Live TV, On-Demand Movies and TV Shows, Games, shopping and a map on your personal device.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: CONTACREW
Posted 2013-07-21 22:09:44 and read 15372 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 81):
Wow, a 777 without an IFE system? That is a worldwide first (not including cargo aircraft). Now the problem is: how will you be able to control the reading lights and FA calls? Typically on Boeing widebodies those functions are provided by the IFE system; overhead buttons are typically only found on Airbus widebodies. Will you need a personal device to do that too?

The 9 "Hawaiian" 777s will be the first aircraft to receive the streaming on demand content as well as having wifi installed.

The reconfigured A319/A320 aircraft will have wifi installed and will have the streaming content available next year.

And no you will not need a device for the reading lights, FA call button those will remain.

[Edited 2013-07-21 22:12:32]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-07-21 22:29:29 and read 15069 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 55):
My observation - which I am happy to state despite not having conducted any surveys, being employed by one of the airlines or IFE providers, or having a degree in statistics - is that few use passengers use their iPads in flight

Believe me, I don't think we're there yet, and I agree that uptake is currently limited.

That said, I personally believe that the future is going to see a shift away from in seat PTVs. We are already seeing that, with both United and Qantas having recently inaugurated programs to replace overhead monitors with streaming AVOD.

The Qantas system is definitely more customer friendly, as they provide an iPad (free of charge) to every seat, and there is an iPad mount on the back of the seat in front so that you don't have to lose valuable tray table space. Qantas are very open about how they saved a fortune over traditional models by doing this, both in terms of installation and ongoing costs (both fuel and system maintenance). The success of the system on the 767 fleet means that it is to be rolled out on the 717s, and I personally wouldn't be surprised to see the 737 fleet transition to it as well.

The United system is obviously more reliant on the customer providing their own device, but the theory is the same: UA can provide AVOD for very little cost.

I give credit to United for installing power ports at every seat: for this model to be effective people must be able to charge their device in flight (On QF you just get another iPad: there are spares on board which the crew distribute if necessary)

Quoting opethfan (Reply 58):
As it turns out, the QF streaming service is almost exactly what I had in mind for a viable modern IFE. I still like my screen attached to the seat in front as on my most recent TATL the passenger in front of me was really trying to get a fully flat bed in economy, so using my laptop was impossible and looking down at the tray table with my tablet on for hours on end would cause the worst neckache ever.

Tablet + streaming server + headrest mount = perfect solution.

  

I personally expect that this will eventually become standard on "luxurious" carriers - those that want to provide a superior on board experience - by recognising that not every customer has their own device, and providing the attachments for it so that it doesn't have to be on your knee.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 82):
EXACTLY. PTVs will become lighter in weight over time and better.

Lighter, not light

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
Yet DL has replaced the overhead CRTs on its 752s with LCDs

Wow  

Most airlines that planned on keeping overhead monitors did that a decade ago

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
Except that you have to pay for it, unlike DL who offers the live TV part of the system for free on domestic routes within the continental United States

You only pay for the DirecTV system - the A320 streaming is free

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 65):
Well your thread was obviously some kind of bait to remind us of how "great" DL is with their IFE options

  

Especially those uber-luxurious A320s  
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 71):
The 717s are due to the fact that the routes that they will fly will be too short to warrant it

Right, whereas UA provide IFE to EVERY passenger on EVERY mainline flight.

Face it, DL is being cheap - not that I expect you to admit it

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-21 22:31:58 and read 15083 times.

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 84):
And no you will not need a device for the reading lights, FA call button those will remain.

But how is that possible on a 777 without an IFE system? Nobody offers PSUs with buttons on them for the 777, and even if there were such a product, the buttons over the center seats would be too high for the average passenger to reach without getting up out of their seat. The seats are not wired directly to the PSUs; the reading light and FA chime system is wired on a multiplex system which shares many components with the IFE system. I don't know of any manufacturer that offers a system solely to control reading lights and the FA chimes for any Boeing widebody.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2013-07-22 00:34:16 and read 13585 times.

For some of us, the point of getting on a plane is to get from A to B, and doing it quicker than the train, boat, bus, car or whatever would do it. For most of these forms of transport, it's a case of "bring your own entertainment".

I spend too much professional time in front of a (large) computer screen, and occasional moments watching sport or news on a very large TV, so a long haul flight is a nice opportunity to give that up. The last thing I look forward to (in Y, unfortunately) is using an inferior small screen to watch someone else's choice of programs.

As others have mentioned above, looking out the window is very compelling for me, reading a book that I chose, eating and drinking, and - God forbid - talking to my neighbour (who is sometimes my wife or one of my kids, but not always). I do use IFE for the moving map function

I just don't understand how anyone can get so worked up about IFE systems. Competitive pressure is probably the major factor in bringing in the current IFE systems, now commercial pressure is leading airlines to remove them and offer more up-to-date alternatives. I am also in favour of removing the obtrusive box at my feet

And for what it's worth, in my own opinion as a rather frequent long haul passenger, there is a surprisingly large percentage of passengers who never even take the headphones out of the plastic bag!

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-07-22 01:32:07 and read 12929 times.

Flying on the UA 744 a couple of months ago with no seat back TV's wasn't exactly fun for many on the plane. People come to expect IFE these days.

All I could hear were people complaining. Yes, I knew what I was in for but others certainly weren't prepared.

[Edited 2013-07-22 01:32:54]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: DAL763ER
Posted 2013-07-22 01:40:50 and read 12776 times.

No IFE can beat the range of entertainment you can get from your laptop or tablet. I'd rather have sockets installed an planes so I can stay plugged in all the time and enjoy my own. I have a few BA trips planned this year in Y/Y+. Y has no sockets at all, Y+ has that silly adapter that Apple doesn't make any more and hence I can't use (as is probably the case with most people).

A working WiFi connection would be great. Emirates has WiFi on their 380s and in my experience flying LHR-DXB-LHR, it only worked east of Germany for some reason and it was too expensive for the way it worked (US$15 for a slow 100MB). I look forward to trying AA's TATL WiFi.

Also, your own device doesn't get interrupted by crew announcements like the IFE does.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-07-22 02:16:59 and read 12300 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 61):
But why should airlines force one option on passengers rather than giving them the choice? Fact is, on all of my recent DL AVOD flights, those using the IFE system outnumbered those using their own devices about 10:1, and I can swear this to God with all of my heart. I would not lie about this. Plus, bandwidth is an issue if everyone were to use their own devices to watch streaming video.

Bandwidth is not so much a problem if you have a decent computer and wifi connection...

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 68):
However, many of these 757s are due to be replaced soon by the 739ERs (which will include AVOD from the factory), and considering this, it probably didn't make much sense to install AVOD on them (most of the newer PMDL 757s already have AVOD installed).

I still don't see your point about the IFE on DL, I find that the programming on DL to be limited even though there are lots of movies and TV shows, most of which I don't want to watch when I am at home. I read quite a bit and don't really like the selection of crap they show. I also like to work and need to have a wifi connection to use the internet when I travel on business and that is pretty much the feeling I am getting from the other people who fly on business.

And would you stop trying to make DL the panacea of airlines. They are great and the best of the american based carriers for which the bar is set pretty low but this thread is an obvious attempt to promote DL and bash other carriers.

[Edited 2013-07-22 02:23:02]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: christao17
Posted 2013-07-22 02:17:20 and read 12291 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 80):
But the demise of Connexion by Boeing and the poor results of GoGo and Scoot's streaming IFE make it abundantly clear that passengers despise having to do the airline's job and provide their own IFE.

That's assuming that the reason was due to passengers despising "having to do the airliner's job" and not due to a myriad of other reasons that businesses fail.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: awacsooner
Posted 2013-07-22 02:20:49 and read 12253 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
Source please.

Look it up yourself...here's a start: search for just about every thread that has to do with IFE. Then start looking at the threads, as just about all of them de-evolve into IFE bashing.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2013-07-22 02:21:52 and read 12287 times.

I loathe AVOD.

Perhaps I missed the brat pack generation by a few years, but it strikes me (and being my personal experience on over 100 flights already this year, so it must be FACT..PERIOD   ) those who enjoy and use AVOD in the main are either kids or that awkard breed of the species who dress 'cool' ( trust me, your pants round your knees ain't cool), who wait at the gate with their headphones on, who never engage the crew, who don't make eye contact or talk to their fellow passengers, for as soon as the AVOD is up and running, they switch from their own personal entertainment to AVOD.

It is a generation whose level of human interraction seems limited to a video, computer or tablet screen. It is a generation controlled by technology.

My personal gripes are unstable performance, incessant reboots which disturb your viewing, interruptions from cabin addresses, boxes which grossly intrude on personal space in Y and performance lag. Give me my iPad, a book or a few magazines any day !

The only thing I would like to remain, in any circumstance in the future, is the moving map, even if only strategically positioned around the cabin.

As airlines seek new ways to save money, and in the drive to take weight out of every frame, AVOD will eventually be overtaken by WiFi, of that I have no doubt and the day will come when we all routinely take a hand held device on board for our inflight entertainment, which, I am sure, will enable you to tap into an inboard library, on a similar scale to what Emirates offer with their current fixed network Avod.

Rgds

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: jetsetter1969
Posted 2013-07-22 02:39:58 and read 12052 times.

If the wifi on the aircraft is a radio transmitting device and I assume our laptop or Ipad or smart phone is sending a signal to talk to the wifi wouldnt that then potentially affect the planes electronics like they tell us in the pretakeoff announcements?

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-22 02:46:27 and read 11936 times.

Quoting jetsetter1969 (Reply 94):
If the wifi on the aircraft is a radio transmitting device and I assume our laptop or Ipad or smart phone is sending a signal to talk to the wifi wouldnt that then potentially affect the planes electronics like they tell us in the pretakeoff announcements?

If any aviation electronics operate anywhere near 2.4GHz frequencies, which are specified and reserved for consumer applications exclusively, then I question who designed such components.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: pfletch1228
Posted 2013-07-22 02:51:41 and read 11895 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 38):
Well, the fact that in-flight Wi-Fi providers are losing money as we know it doesn't convince you that that it is a failing concept? Plus, IFE systems are becoming more advanced and lightweight. If IFE was on its way out there wouldn't be any continued advancement of IFE systems.

This comment pretty much sums up your complete lack of understanding of the subject matter. The INTERNET providers are losing money. Wifi just happens to be the local "in airplane" medium used to connect to the internet gateway. If cost and weight wasn't an issue, this internet service could just as easily be provisioned via hard cable (ethernet cables). Wifi is a component of the local area network, just as it would be at your home or at work.

Wifi streaming is a local service : in other words, there is a local server on the plane that devices connect to, and the devices just happen to use the same network (in most cases Wifi) that is used to access the internet. It doesnt even need the presence of an active internet gateway. It does not alter the business case for in-flight internet at all in most circumstances. To be clear on this : the streaming is NOT going over the wide area network ala Netflix or Hulu type services. Content is loaded locally onto the plane, and in the panasonic solution, uses the same media store as the built in IFE devices use.

In summary, Wifi streaming is just another form of the normal IFE you see. It does not denote the removal of IFE from aircraft at all. Perhaps one day when planes have enough bandwidth provisioned to them you may see the removal of local servers, but even in that scenario, you may still find permanent seat back devices in premium cabins. The concept of "bring your own device" is a well established cost saving initiative that has long been at play in corporates. Personally, I am glad to see the concept making its way into planes as ultimately I am not paying double for a display device. I think its time people start relaxing : IFE is not going to dissapear. Its just evolving.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: PITingres
Posted 2013-07-22 02:55:46 and read 11845 times.

re large IFE boxes:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 75):
Who is that bad? I've flown B6 quite a few times and never found a space constraint. Whose systems are taking up space? As noted above, EK has been moving the boxes up into the seats...

The last flight I was on with a giant annoying under-seat box was a KL A330 a few months ago. B6 must use a different system.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-07-22 03:02:18 and read 11764 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 88):
Flying on the UA 744 a couple of months ago with no seat back TV's wasn't exactly fun for many on the plane. People come to expect IFE these days.

All I could hear were people complaining. Yes, I knew what I was in for but others certainly weren't prepared.

You might have added that United consistently commands lower fares and therefore yields on its SYD-LAX route than its competitors because the market here in Australia has for years heard horror stories about their inferior product.

The current lead-in fares on SYD-LAX are as follows:

United $1129 return
Delta $1139 return
Virgin Australia $1199 return
Qantas $1469

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: LOWS
Posted 2013-07-22 03:02:51 and read 11738 times.

This has to be the most absurd thread I have ever read on this site.

We would all do well to remember:

1. This is only a website. One that I read for recreation.
2. There is a world outside of airlines and pink Boeing 764s
3. And dear God in Heaven, does it matter that some people on this site don't like IFE? We all benefit from a reasoned discussion of aviation issues, not from an obsessive argument between fanatics.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 22):

Maybe you should just threaten to sue everyone for defamation again. It worked the first time, right??  

Defamation Against The 767-400ER (by 1337Delta764 Jul 7 2011 in Site Related)

Surely that's trolling.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: bcworld
Posted 2013-07-22 03:18:32 and read 11486 times.

Quoting PITingres (Reply 97):
re large IFE boxes:

I can't find it but I remember seeing a pic of a newly fitted out TG 747 in Y where the IFE box under the seat was simply huge!

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: aircanada014
Posted 2013-07-22 03:29:15 and read 11335 times.

if I recall AC IFE box is under the floor so it's not taking up spaces for leg room in economy?

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: JHwk
Posted 2013-07-22 03:30:50 and read 11340 times.

I rarely use IFE on flights less than 4 hours, but even on LAX-SFO I am happy to have the visual distraction. I don't need AVOD for those segments, just something to balance out the fact that all the window seat passengers have closed their shades.

In US domestic first, I personally see more than half the passengers using their own device, and less than 10% using IFE.

I just don't get how people can pull off BYOD. My ipad has 64GB of storage, which holds maybe 8 hours of programming. When I am traveling, the chanes of me being able to replenish the selection is quite limited. Streaming is great in concept, but there are a lot of fundamental limitations. With heavy utilization, you quickly saturate the available bandwidth, even with an access point every three rows.

BYOD is a great backup plan, but I can't see it working. Charging isn't a major issue for me; have a supplemental battery that can charge my ipad twice, which is generally good for about 24 hours of use.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-07-22 04:01:47 and read 10929 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
And why would my personal observations be false? Trust me, I have flown several DL AVOD flights, and with my very own eyes I saw far more people using the IFE than their own devices. It isn't like my eyes would lie

For those of us who disagree with you regarding IFE, do our eyes lie? l

Quoting johns624 (Reply 40):
Exactly. He's actually started a few threads on different types of IFE, stating models and makes

He can be counted on to regularly start threads about IFE and the B767-400 always with his opinion, never facts

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: a320fan
Posted 2013-07-22 04:02:32 and read 10891 times.

My personal vision for future IFE is wifi streaming from an onboard server to either airline provided or personal tablet devices. As has been covered in the thread, this will save weight therefore saving airlines money in fuel. Additionally it removes the boxes from under the seat. Though progress has been made on this, They are located under the floor in SQ 77W's.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: NorthstarBoy
Posted 2013-07-22 05:42:29 and read 9525 times.

From what i've read on these boards, a.netters seem to be pro-airlines making money. I mean, look at all the viscera and hatred towards flying "prestige routes" just for the sake of flying them or putting a 400 seat 747-400 on a trip when the market would be better served (translate that "the airline will make more money") with a 767-300. Therefore, I dont think a.netters are personally against ife as a concept, i think they're just against putting anything on an airplane that doesnt somehow generate revenue back to the airline, whether it be an enhanced first and/or business class product that the airlines can charge more money for, or unbundling the coach travel experience to the point that a ticket is just a ticket. The attitude seems to be: You want a good seat? pay for it, You want to check a bag? pay for it. You want dinner and a movie? pay for it. You want the kind of service you can remember getting as a kid traveling in the 1980s? buy a seat in first class.

It is funny too the way people on these boards will argue about the merits of getting rid of IFE and replacing it with streaming video. Well, how many mom and pop travelers even own an Ipad? Now imagine, a middle to low budget traveler going to Europe for the first time, no ipad, no iphone or any other gadget, and basically having to sit and stare at his navel for eight hours because the airline was too cheap to offer free entertainment either via a tv in front of the passenger or by purchasing enough devices that every single passenger who wants one can have one free of charge.

Oh but wait, i've read too many threads on these boards where the attitude seems to be that low revenue travelers should just take Greyhound. I swear some people on these boards think low fares or low yield is a bad thing. No, i say, from the perspective of my wallet, low fares are a realy, really, good thing, the lower the better, because it allows me to travel the world.

Personally, i am Pro-Personal IFE on airplanes. Just as an example, on my last big trip, I got to Hong Kong and I was scheduled to travel UA from Seoul to San Francisco on the 747-400. As much as i like the 747-400, the idea of spending almost 11 hours with no TV in front of me practically made my mind scream. I went to the united ticket desk and changed from the nonstop to a Seoul-Tokyo-Los Angeles routing so i could get on the 777 and have a tv in front of me. (Ironically, i discovered that for my particular flight on that particular day, there would be no equipment change in Tokyo, so i changed my routing again once i got to Tokyo to go Tokyo-San Francisco and ended up on a 2900 series 777. Looping video is great, on a short flight, but on a transpac flight? aaaaaaagggghhhhh! Ok, yes, i've been spoiled by AVOD!)

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: DAL763ER
Posted 2013-07-22 06:34:20 and read 8695 times.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 105):

It is funny too the way people on these boards will argue about the merits of getting rid of IFE and replacing it with streaming video. Well, how many mom and pop travelers even own an Ipad? Now imagine, a middle to low budget traveler going to Europe for the first time, no ipad, no iphone or any other gadget, and basically having to sit and stare at his navel for eight hours because the airline was too cheap to offer free entertainment either via a tv in front of the passenger or by purchasing enough devices that every single passenger who wants one can have one free of charge.

While you generally make a good point that for the low budget traveler IFE is a good thing, before any sort of IFE existed, personal or provided by an airline, you could take a book on a plane. And as per the most recent TSA regulations, people still can. So while some people may not own a gadget, they can always get a book and read. Or get a bottle of wine and sleep through the 11 hours.

Now regarding actually owning the device themselves, I find it hard to believe that someone that is actually open minded enough to go see the world would not own any sort of device for media consumption. Not only would the device provide one with the said entertainment but it would also allow one to stay connected with what's happening in the world, plan their trip using said device etc. Sure, some devices can get quite expensive, but an iPad mini is only $329+tax, which isn't horribly expensive. Some Android devices are even cheaper - a Nexus 7 is $199.

[Edited 2013-07-22 06:36:20]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: md80fanatic
Posted 2013-07-22 07:04:29 and read 8241 times.

I wonder if it matters that the entire compliment of passengers are trapped in a metal tube (a Faraday cage) amongst dozens of wifi transceivers put there by, and for, people demanding entertainment? It's easy to forget that wifi is not an invisible cable that goes from source to destination like a laser beam, it goes everywhere, through everyone whether they want it or not. With a captive population it really isn't proper to force others to be subject to your radiation. Is it proper to force others in the cabin to indulge in your flatulence? What's the difference really? Just because you cannot detect wifi signals with your 5 senses doesn't mean they aren't there and aren't affecting others.

Why not have a simple network cable attached to each seat and force all the wifi equipment OFF? You would even be able to use your devices during takeoff and landing then.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: TrnsWrld
Posted 2013-07-22 07:10:49 and read 8144 times.

I did not bother reading through all posts, but why in the world would anyone here on a.net want IFE removed?? That's the most ridiculous thing I have heard. The flights I have been on with IFE it kept me and my wife busy for hours. People have weird opinions I suppose.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: EL-AL
Posted 2013-07-22 07:14:31 and read 8094 times.

Am I the only person still flying with a book? (you know, the one from paper)

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 26point2
Posted 2013-07-22 07:15:37 and read 8099 times.

God forbid we have to go a few hours without a screen of some sort to gaze at. Come on people...pick up a book!

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: flyingbird
Posted 2013-07-22 07:24:52 and read 7907 times.

I would prefer WiFi instead of IFE 100 out 100 flights. IFE is slow, uggly, old and never offer what you want. Give me WiFi + my iPad and I can entertain myself! And the airline will save weight and money.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: richierich
Posted 2013-07-22 07:29:14 and read 7842 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
No one I know would prefer to use the IFE system rather than their own. Do you acually have any proof of your statement or is that just your opinion.

I have watched live college basketball games, NFL football, even the Olympics while flying using an IFE system. Not easy to do on an iPad even with a solid WiFi connection, which often does not perform well when trying to stream content.

In my experience, I see roughly 75% of passengers watching tv or movies on non-redye B6 flights, with the other 25% sleeping, watching a movie on their own laptop, looking out the window/talking with others, or reading. Just so we are clear, this is not a scientific study and this might be different when Jetblue gets Wifi in the near future but I believe people seem more apt to watching free IFE (when the content is right, of course) than wasting their own batteries on their own devices. At least in Y class.

On airlines where individual IFE is not an option (such as my recent flights on American Eagle, DL and HA), I'm guessing less than 1/3 of people watched tv or movies from their own devices, although I believe HA "sold out" of the portable IFE devices that they rented.

IFE is an interesting subject and without fact-based studies to back it up, we are just speculating. Still, I fly regularly (more than "a lot") and although the number of folks watching pre-recorded shows or movies has increased a lot in the past year or two, I still believe it to be far less than half of all passengers especially when IFE is offered on the seatback.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: NeutronStar73
Posted 2013-07-22 07:54:42 and read 7417 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
No, I am going based on my personal observations. In fact, on my recent DL trips, I have yet to see even a single passenger watching the streaming Wi-Fi movies using their own devices. Fact is, far more people prefer in-seat IFE for the convenience.

I agree and I think many people may not be able to afford any of those fancy tablets or laptops and such. And who knows if the battery (especially laptops) will last a long flight, considering I've hardly been in any aircraft that had in-seat power connnections except in business or first class.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: OA412
Posted 2013-07-22 07:57:41 and read 7404 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 90):
They are great and the best of the american based carriers for which the bar is set pretty low but this thread is an obvious attempt to promote DL and bash other carriers.

Every single thread by OP turns into a DL lovefest...

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 92):
Look it up yourself...here's a start: search for just about every thread that has to do with IFE. Then start looking at the threads, as just about all of them de-evolve into IFE bashing.

OP is suggesting that people want IFE removed, which I really don't think is the case. As I'm sure you know, there's a difference between bashing IFE and actually wanting all IFE removed from flights. I've also been a critic of some people's obsession with IFE because I think it's ridiculous for people to think they are absolutely entitled to free entertainment when they fly. Bringing your own device isn't a harship, and you can at least watch something you'll enjoy.

I still don't think OP can find a source suggesting that IFE should be completely removed.

Quoting pfletch1228 (Reply 96):

  

Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
This has to be the most absurd thread I have ever read on this site.

It's definitely up there.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
We would all do well to remember:

1. This is only a website. One that I read for recreation.
2. There is a world outside of airlines and pink Boeing 764s
3. And dear God in Heaven, does it matter that some people on this site don't like IFE? We all benefit from a reasoned discussion of aviation issues, not from an obsessive argument between fanatics.

Precisely. OP needs to get a grip.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
Surely that's trolling.

I don't know. I hope it's just someone who's having some fun, but I fear that OP is really being serious.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2013-07-22 08:05:19 and read 7274 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 49):
Firstly, if you're trying to watch streaming video then you're lucky to get 4 hours on an iPad and 2 hours on an iPhone. Very lucky.

I'm having good luck carrying two Philips AriaZ MP3/MP4 players. They're tiny (bigger than a Nano - smaller than an Ipod) last up to 12 hours, recharge quickly, and download the music I have on my Amazon Cloud. And they recharge from my laptop--whether it's plugged in or not.

Who needs IFE  

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-07-22 08:28:27 and read 6951 times.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 22):

Maybe you should just threaten to sue everyone for defamation again. It worked the first time, right?? Defamation Against The 767-400ER (by 1337Delta764 Jul 7 2011 in Site Related)

Methinks the OP is an IFE engineer assigned to Delta's 767-400ER fleet perhaps?

 

Or perhaps this?
Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 65):
Well your thread was obviously some kind of bait to remind us of how "great" DL is with their IFE options.



My impression is that it is the airlines more than passengers who are pushing for IFE to be replaced by streaming, as it reduces complexity and cost for the airlines. Having said that, the only IFE I personally use are the moving map, and the cameras (on airlines that have them). I also find, based on personal observations, that IFE is less used in First and Business (where work or sleep seem to win over IFE) than in Economy. And that the number of people using their own devices is slowly increasing.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: PITingres
Posted 2013-07-22 08:38:37 and read 6786 times.

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 109):
Am I the only person still flying with a book? (you know, the one from paper)

No.

Although, I rather like the kindle, to my considerable surprise. Recently I've been traveling with that instead of paper; saves lugging around a half-dozen paper books.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: ghifty
Posted 2013-07-22 09:10:16 and read 6375 times.

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 113):
I agree and I think many people may not be able to afford any of those fancy tablets or laptops and such.

People who can't afford "fancy tablets and such" wouldn't be sucked into the "need to be connected" mentality. So they'd probably be able to do without IFE, more so than somebody who already has those.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-07-22 09:15:17 and read 6325 times.

IFE can be a godsend, when a flight is delayed after boarding. My family was on the AA 777 flight from DFW to ORD, when after a delay in departure due to installing a software upgrade, we wound up back in the gate for 2+ hours becuase of a hydrualic system problem.

Fortunately, my son found plenty of games to play on AA's IFE. Meanwhile, my wife and I found two sit-coms to watch, "How I Met Your Mother" and "The Big Bang Theory."

I mentioned on another topic, but a lot of people who fly for business are using employer-owned laptops and tablets. Watching movies or other entertainment could lead to problems. I know someone who was fired for several reasons, including using a company laptop for shopping and personal e-mails.

So, they would probably prefer to have IFE.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: YTZ
Posted 2013-07-22 09:23:27 and read 6186 times.

What is the ideal?

Start there and work your way backwards.

The ideal would be high-speed wifi and an app (native or web) that let's you access the airline/airplane's library or live broadcasts at will.

IFE exists now because there was no iPad a decade ago. As tablets become cheaper, lighter and come with longer battery life, airlines would be foolish not to embrace them and move to a wireless solution. It's not even about the box or saving weight, etc. It's about the fact that the tablets usually offer a much better user experience than the aircraft's own IFE. Heck, most IFE systems still have resistive touch screens....

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: babybus
Posted 2013-07-22 09:26:49 and read 6138 times.

I find the vast entertainment available on Middle East carriers to be frustrating. There is far too much and you never can hope to see all the things you want to see.

I admit I'm one of those people who brings their own entertainment and if not my own I'll snooze or read.

The other problems with IFE is that you are distracted too often with announcements and trolley service and, as had been said before, the underseat box takes up too much space.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-07-22 10:45:15 and read 5106 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 45):
I prefer to think that they are prisoners of an anti-competitive aviation market which enforces low standards upon them in a manner similar to Soviet-era Aeroflot.

I hardly think that DL is spending $2billion+ to upgrade interiors, hard & soft product, etc. just so they can compete in an anti-competitive market. Same goes for the other carriers. Plus, how many airlines are there in the U.S. competing for that same customer's travelling dollar? I hardly think that THAT'S anti-competitive.  

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: tugger
Posted 2013-07-22 11:12:55 and read 4737 times.

For me the primary thing I really need from IFE systems is the ability to turn the screen off..... I very much dislike the glowing screen in my face the entire time (happily many can be turned off or down to black, unfortunately many can't be). Along with the commercials etc. they are in general very annoying to me.

Tugg

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: WesternDC6B
Posted 2013-07-22 11:20:29 and read 4639 times.

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
I suspect that it doesn't have anything to do with the IFE concept but rather the box that ends up taking up your very limited space under the seat in front of you. It is bad enough that the pitch in coach is terrible but then the airlines put the IFE box in the space where your feet are supposed to go.

      !!! Get that blasted box out of my way! I do not care one whit that the newer systems are now mounted in such a way that the box is gone or smaller. The big ones will be there for the foreseeable future, and they are in the way. They take up foot space for those of us with big feet (US 13EEEE), or wish to stow something bigger than a small purse under the seat.

Another reason to pitch them over the side is that I dislike being a captive audience to airline promos, advertisements for fizzy drinks and automobiles (Yes, Delta, I am pointing at YOU), and other such things that you cannot shut off and which are often played at loud volume. Do any of you remember the commercial last Christmas that had children screaming all at once to Santa (Father Christmas) about what they wanted for Christmas? Many of these promos flicker and blink in order to get you to pay attention. I want to take an airplane ride, not be advertised at.

My solution for the flicker and blink is to take something out of the seat pocket and fold it in a manner that hides the screen. I will continue doing that until some Federal regulation says I can't.

Many of you on here gripe about those of us who resent being charged for checked baggage. Let's try this: why is part of my ticket going to pay royalties for movies, television series, video games, and music programming I do not use? If you just can't bring a book or survive without television, swipe your card in the slot and pay for it.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: WesternDC6B
Posted 2013-07-22 11:28:50 and read 4546 times.

Quoting gweilo88 (Reply 27):
Rather than IFE, I would rather find a plane with an air nozzle at my seat.

   Add a touch more legroom, and it'd be perfect!

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: twincessna340a
Posted 2013-07-22 11:43:20 and read 4373 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 33):
It places more pressure on the FAA to authorized limited personal calls on a smart device inflight.

The FAA has no say about personal phones making calls. They govern them only as onboard electronic devices. The FCC makes the rule against using your cellphone in-flight.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: Yflyer
Posted 2013-07-22 11:45:38 and read 4370 times.

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 113):
I agree and I think many people may not be able to afford any of those fancy tablets or laptops and such.

Just as an example, I have a friend who loves to travel internationally. She doesn't make that much money. She is able to save up for her international trips in part by forgoing other luxuries, like fancy tablets, laptops, and smartphones. She has a desktop computer and a pay as you go dumbphone. Yes, she does love to read as well but how many people can read for 8 hours straight on a flight across the pond? It's nice to have other options sometimes. I know my friend may be an outlier in some respects, but I think the assumption that most people bring their own entertainment is incorrect.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: milemaster
Posted 2013-07-22 11:59:26 and read 4200 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
... the anti-IFE crowd makes the claim that in-flight Wi-Fi is the future. If that is the case, why are in-flight Wi-Fi providers such as Gogo bleeding cash as we know it? This A.net myth has to stop.

This might be my favorite Airliners.net quote of all time.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-07-22 12:26:53 and read 3833 times.

The trip report linked below had a nice example photo and summarization regarding flights without PTVs:

Asia 5: Fine Dining On Scoot. TPE-SIN On The 777 (by gabrielchew Nov 4 2012 in Trip Reports)

Quoting gabrielchew:
As you can see, without the flickering of any PTVs, the cabin is quite peaceful.

That's pretty much my feeling as well. I don't always remember to bring eye shades for night flights, and the constant flickering from a whole cabinful of PTV screens is disturbing.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
It seems odd that some people here at A.net actually WANT airlines to remove IFE from their planes and force passengers to bring their own devices.

I've never once seen anyone crusade against IFE, and I enjoy watching the occasional movie on the drop-down screens. Flickering PTVs are an entirely different thing.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: NorthstarBoy
Posted 2013-07-22 12:31:15 and read 3784 times.

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 106):

While you generally make a good point that for the low budget traveler IFE is a good thing, before any sort of IFE existed, personal or provided by an airline, you could take a book on a plane. And as per the most recent TSA regulations, people still can. So while some people may not own a gadget, they can always get a book and read. Or get a bottle of wine and sleep through the 11 hours.

I agree, it's nice to sometimes just sit and listen to music and read, and i've also been known to bring along crossword puzzle books. However, books and crossword puzzles can only keep one occupied for so long. Maybe some people can read for hours at a time, i'm not one of them. I need some kind of visual stimulation to stay entertained. I will also admit that i have a laptop, but its a bit unwieldy to put in my lap or on the tray table for hours at a time. There's also the issue of unloading it from the bag in the cramped confines of a coach seat without bothering or inconveniencing my neighbor, plus there's the issue of how long it will stay charged, usually no more than 4-6 hours. Once the battery dies the issue becomes recharging it. On my last big trip I brought the laptop with me but found I really wasn't using it in flight because of the factors mentioned above. Up until last christmas I did not have a tablet device (Thanks Air AsiaX for introducing them to me!) and did not think i'd have a need for one. I was and still am perfectly happy to let the airline provide the entertainment.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-07-22 12:32:43 and read 3757 times.

Maybe I am a bit old-fashioned but I love IFE and I don't fancy the idea of WiFi in planes.

Something I love today about 8 or 10 hours in a plane is that I cannot be reached by any means (phone, email...), today (until recently, since it is quickly changing) planes were basically the only place where you have an "excuse" not to reply to a call or email.

As for IFE VS tablets... I prefer the IFE. First, I think it is much comfortable... even a light/small iPad Mini needs some space (not easy to eat and watch something on the screen at the same time), you can watch a movie and get asleep and the screen can go on. Secondly, I rarely go to the cinema those days... so it is a good way to watch some recent blockbuster or some French or Chinese movie that I had never heard about... in all quietness.

[Edited 2013-07-22 12:33:12]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-07-22 12:47:02 and read 3590 times.

First: IFE adds to the costs of air traffic, remove it and make the tickets cheaper.
Second: The Contents of all IFE Systems I have seen is heavily censored to the ultra right propaganda, even unbearable to a conservative person like me.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: YTZ
Posted 2013-07-22 13:02:07 and read 3391 times.

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 127):
It's nice to have other options sometimes. I know my friend may be an outlier in some respects, but I think the assumption that most people bring their own entertainment is incorrect.

You don't design products or services around outliers.

In general, most people who fly (especially long-haul) can afford to carry some kind of PED and increasingly will do exactly that. So airline should be catering to that.

I daresay, that there are many instances, I would appreciate the ability to hang up my iPad and watch my own content, then use the often frustrating ICE system that's generally about 5 years behind in capability (screen resolution, touch sensitivity, UI/menus, etc.) in this part of the world.

And for those outliers, there can always be the opportunity to rent a device.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-22 13:15:45 and read 3241 times.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 133):
You don't design products or services around outliers.

Problem is, the outliers are the ones who bring their own devices while the majority of people prefer using the IFE.

Now what I don't understand is: why are users INTENTIONALLY ignoring my posts confirming that the in-flight Wi-Fi providers are losing money? If in-flight Wi-Fi was the future, the in-flight Wi-Fi providers wouldn't be bleeding cash.

[Edited 2013-07-22 13:19:37]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: airtechy
Posted 2013-07-22 13:33:14 and read 3065 times.

I never use IFE for anything except the map display. 90 percent of my flying is trans- pacific in business and the lie flat seats are a much greater attraction. I can understand how they would appeal to a family with kids to distract.

I'm not sure about tablets, but the percentage of people that now have smart phones with wi-fi is probably 50 percent or greater. Having said that, can you really enjoy a movie on a 4-5 inch screen?  Wow!

AT

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: ACDC8
Posted 2013-07-22 13:37:25 and read 3036 times.

Just my .02 cents on the topic ... I rarely use the IFE other than the map function or watching a movie during dinner, I prefer to spend my flying looking out the window or reading. But, since I typically fly Y class, the nice thing about the built in IFE is that the screen doesn't take up any of the already limited space. So, if I were to use the Wi Fi option with say an iPad and I wanted to watch a movie during dinner, where am I gonna put it?

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-22 14:39:12 and read 2733 times.

Reading through the posts, I am not alone in my observations that more people use the IFE system than their own devices:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 55):
I too have read some posts on A.net over the years advocating the elimination of IFE. In reading the varied posts, I took away the sentiment that IFE is yesterday's technology and will never be as functional or provide as wide a degree of entertainment/features as a person's own laptop or iPad. My observation - which I am happy to state despite not having conducted any surveys, being employed by one of the airlines or IFE providers, or having a degree in statistics - is that few use passengers use their iPads in flight. I just don't see it that often. One issue of course in Y is the lack of space - I have a laptop (which is also yesterday's technology I admit) but there is no way I can open that up and work on it in a Y seat. I do enjoy the IFE on planes even if I only watch the map feature!
Quoting richierich (Reply 112):
I have watched live college basketball games, NFL football, even the Olympics while flying using an IFE system. Not easy to do on an iPad even with a solid WiFi connection, which often does not perform well when trying to stream content.

In my experience, I see roughly 75% of passengers watching tv or movies on non-redye B6 flights, with the other 25% sleeping, watching a movie on their own laptop, looking out the window/talking with others, or reading. Just so we are clear, this is not a scientific study and this might be different when Jetblue gets Wifi in the near future but I believe people seem more apt to watching free IFE (when the content is right, of course) than wasting their own batteries on their own devices. At least in Y class.

On airlines where individual IFE is not an option (such as my recent flights on American Eagle, DL and HA), I'm guessing less than 1/3 of people watched tv or movies from their own devices, although I believe HA "sold out" of the portable IFE devices that they rented.

IFE is an interesting subject and without fact-based studies to back it up, we are just speculating. Still, I fly regularly (more than "a lot") and although the number of folks watching pre-recorded shows or movies has increased a lot in the past year or two, I still believe it to be far less than half of all passengers especially when IFE is offered on the seatback.
Quoting koruman (Reply 80):
Let's deconstruct those assertions one at a time........:


1. "Customers generally prefer their own devices because they're familiar with them, can only fault themselves when they're not in good working order".
NO, that sounds like the airline prefers being able to blame the passenger.

2. "devices are already onboard anyway, meaning the airline can avoid a weight penalty (and associated fuel burn) from installing costly, heavy seatback-mounted IFE."
NO, you used that as a reason why the "customers" prefer to use their own devices. But the argument you provided is actually why the airlines prefer pax to use their own devices.

There basically is no evidence to suggest that passengers prefer to bring their own devices rather than have the airline install contemporary AVOD.

But the demise of Connexion by Boeing and the poor results of GoGo and Scoot's streaming IFE make it abundantly clear that passengers despise having to do the airline's job and provide their own IFE.

In general, I would estimate that out of every 100 passengers onboard flights longer than 2 hours in the USA:
a) 20 have both a smartphone and a tablet onboard
b) 20 have a smartphone but no tablet.
c) 5 have a tablet but no smartphone.
d) 40 have neither a smartphone nor a tablet (especially kids and people over the age of 50).
e) 5-10 - depending upon the route - are foreign nationals who are unlikely to have brought their smartphones and who are highly restricted in terms of online payment in the USA (they can't even use their credit cards at the pump at the gas station).

In other words, being generous, 25 out of 100 might have the equipment to have a superior IFE experience through streaming rather than installed seatback video.

I can ensure with 100% confidence that anyone who claims the opposite is intentionally not telling the truth, or maybe they simply hate DL.

[Edited 2013-07-22 14:40:04]

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-07-22 15:13:46 and read 2580 times.

Dude, what's you point about Delta? Many other airlines have AVOD as well, and have significantly better IFE systems - obviously I'm the devil incarnate and a liar for saying this, but Delta's AVOD system is actually pretty poor.

Since this thread will be locked soon I may as well say what I normally wouldn't dare. It's people like you that are the reason that I don't fly Delta. True story. I only figured this out recently. I always looked at Delta with disdain and had no desire to fly them other than when neccessary, because of the airlines apparent ARROGANCE, and the fact that they thought that they were Gods chosen airline.

I have recently realized that it isn't the airline that puts me off them. It's their xenophobic, neo-fascist rent-a-crowd here on ANet. There are some great people from Delta on here. Them there is the likes of you (and others) who are forever spewing crap about how wonderful you airline is and bashing on UA and AA. News flash: DL, while solid, isn't blow-me-away amazing. You probably don't realize it, but you flag waving just reflect badly on Delta and its employees, those that you profess to love

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: NeutronStar73
Posted 2013-07-22 15:22:28 and read 2547 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 114):
Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
This has to be the most absurd thread I have ever read on this site.

It's definitely up there.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
We would all do well to remember:

1. This is only a website. One that I read for recreation.
2. There is a world outside of airlines and pink Boeing 764s
3. And dear God in Heaven, does it matter that some people on this site don't like IFE? We all benefit from a reasoned discussion of aviation issues, not from an obsessive argument between fanatics.

Precisely. OP needs to get a grip.

For 2 guys to think this is an "absurd" thread, you are posting a lot in the "absurd" thread" and taking the time to take shots at the OP.

Who's absurd now?  

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-07-22 15:25:01 and read 2544 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 114):
Quoting brilondon (Reply 90):
They are great and the best of the american based carriers for which the bar is set pretty low but this thread is an obvious attempt to promote DL and bash other carriers.

Every single thread by OP turns into a DL lovefest...

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 92):
Look it up yourself...here's a start: search for just about every thread that has to do with IFE. Then start looking at the threads, as just about all of them de-evolve into IFE bashing.

OP is suggesting that people want IFE removed, which I really don't think is the case. As I'm sure you know, there's a difference between bashing IFE and actually wanting all IFE removed from flights. I've also been a critic of some people's obsession with IFE because I think it's ridiculous for people to think they are absolutely entitled to free entertainment when they fly. Bringing your own device isn't a harship, and you can at least watch something you'll enjoy.

I still don't think OP can find a source suggesting that IFE should be completely removed.

Quoting pfletch1228 (Reply 96):

  

Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
This has to be the most absurd thread I have ever read on this site.

It's definitely up there.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
We would all do well to remember:

1. This is only a website. One that I read for recreation.
2. There is a world outside of airlines and pink Boeing 764s
3. And dear God in Heaven, does it matter that some people on this site don't like IFE? We all benefit from a reasoned discussion of aviation issues, not from an obsessive argument between fanatics.

Precisely. OP needs to get a grip.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 99):
Surely that's trolling.

I don't know. I hope it's just someone who's having some fun, but I fear that OP is really being serious.

I am beginning to think that this was a joke.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: CONTACREW
Posted 2013-07-22 15:32:31 and read 2524 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 142):
You are a sworn-to-God liar. In-seat TVs are here to stay on DL and B6, that is for sure. If you think your beloved UA is making the right decision on removing domestic IFE, you are not telling the truth since DL's product manager is much smarter than the idiots at UA.

Why is it every time someone don't agree with you about In-seat tvs etc you call them a "Sworn-to-God" liar, or you say they are "Intentionally not telling the truth"

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 142):
Nope, you are a liar and should be banned from these forums. Anyone who calls me a liar should be imprisoned for life since they are the ones who are actually lying.

You have got to be kidding me.

I've come to the conclusion that if nobody agrees with you that the 764 is the best aircraft ever built, or that In-Seat IFE is the popular thing about flying and that every passenger is using it etc, then they are a "Sworn-to-God" liar, or "Intentionally not telling the truth".

I think it's time for you to realize there are better things to do with your time then getting so worked up about wheather people agree with you or not about In-seat tvs etc.

Topic: RE: Why Do So Many People Here Want IFE To Be Removed?
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-07-22 16:26:46 and read 2389 times.

This thread continues to require heavy moderation and I think the OP's question has been well answered. Off topic, low quality, disrespect towards other users, and flamebait posts continue to be posted. This thread will be archived.


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