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Topic: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: cosyr
Posted 2013-07-19 11:51:13 and read 11983 times.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...entry-dulles-indianapolis/2568101/

I think this is a good idea, but if so many people are using it, I'm guessing the scanners will find their way into the Pre-Check lines. This is already essentially what I did with Global Entry. So do this or for only $15 extra get fast customs. I think it will help shorten all security and customs lines, as more people do these programs.

[Edited 2013-07-19 12:10:40]

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: xlc
Posted 2013-07-19 13:25:31 and read 11646 times.

Global Entry + PreCheck is absolutely worth the price. But, not every airline participates at every airport.

[Edited 2013-07-19 13:26:37]

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-07-19 13:40:15 and read 11554 times.

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
I'm guessing the scanners will find their way into the Pre-Check lines.

I don't know about that. You wouldn't be able to keep your belt, wallet or jacket on when going thru.

Hopefully this $85 lets you utilize PreCheck when flying an airline that doesn't participate...like WN.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-07-19 14:26:03 and read 11392 times.

Agree that the $100 for Global Entry and Pre is a better deal than $85 for just Pre.

Even if it gets busier though, it will still be a quick process. Took me 2 minutes to clear in ATL this afternoon with about 15 people in front of me. The infrequent flyer is not going to pay for this, and they are the ones that make up a good portion of the volume.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-07-19 14:27:21 and read 11391 times.

Pre-check as it exists now is great because generally it is 2-3 minutes for me to pass through. And while it is available to the masses via FF programs and Global Entry it is typically random for FF elites. I was at ~40% for the year with just 1K, I'm 100% for the year with Global Entry tacked on

I wonder if making Precheck available through an additional channel will continue to add to the qualifying paxs and thus potentially create lines/waits in busier airports

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: BD338
Posted 2013-07-19 15:20:02 and read 11223 times.

I wonder if it will be available to Green Card holders? It says for US Citizens. As a green card holder I've already been through a battery of background checks, interviews and fingerprinting. Likely far more intensive than a pre-check screening.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: xlc
Posted 2013-07-19 15:38:31 and read 11138 times.

Global Entry is open to some non-US citizens: "Global Entry is open to U.S. citizens, lawful permanent residents, Dutch citizens, South Korean citizens and Mexican nationals. Canadian citizens and residents may enjoy Global Entry benefits through membership in the NEXUS program." (source)

It looks like PreCheck is limited to US citizens and Canadians with NEXUS: "U.S. citizens currently enrolled in CBP’s Global Entry, SENTRI or NEXUS Trusted Traveler programs are automatically eligible to participate in TSA Pre✓™. As of November 15, 2012, Canadian citizens who are members of NEXUS are also qualified to participate in TSA Pre✓™." (source)

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: ukoverlander
Posted 2013-07-19 16:11:42 and read 11031 times.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 5):
I wonder if it will be available to Green Card holders?

As a Brit with a Green Card I have Global Entry and with it pre-check. Approval of my application took two days probably because you have a background check when you go through the Green card process.......then I had to wait 4 months for an appointment to get the actual card!!!!!

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: michman
Posted 2013-07-19 18:59:55 and read 10745 times.

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 7):
As a Brit with a Green Card I have Global Entry and with it pre-check. Approval of my application took two days probably because you have a background check when you go through the Green card process.......then I had to wait 4 months for an appointment to get the actual card!!!!!

Not following how having Global Entry nullifies the TSA Pre-Check citizenship requirements. They are still separate programs.

[Edited 2013-07-19 19:00:42]

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: usxguy
Posted 2013-07-19 19:14:35 and read 10695 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 2):
Hopefully this $85 lets you utilize PreCheck when flying an airline that doesn't participate...like WN.

If the TSA preCheck doesn't show up on your boarding pass, you can show your ID card when you go to the line. When I fly on American, my TSA precheck shows up, but on Alaska it doesn't physically print, but its in the bar code.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: ukoverlander
Posted 2013-07-19 19:23:08 and read 10666 times.

Quoting michman (Reply 8):
Not following how having Global Entry nullifies the TSA Pre-Check citizenship requirements. They are still separate programs.

To get that information you'd probably have to dive into the eligibility rules on the associated website. I'm sure the answer is in the fine print somewhere. I can only assume that the standards required to be met for 'Global Entry' are at least equivalent, or more onerous than those for TSA Pre.

The website states at: http://www.tsa.gov/tsa-precheck/tsa-precheck-application-process

"Current TSA Pre✓™ participants, including those eligible via a CBP Trusted Traveler Program such as Global Entry, will continue to receive TSA Pre✓™ eligibility."

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-07-19 19:36:48 and read 10614 times.

I think the worthiness will be based on the airport. My home airport is BOS and can't remember the last time it has taken me more than 5-10 minutes to pass thru security or immigration. So for me these services are not worth a dime, let alone $85.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: cosyr
Posted 2013-07-19 19:41:32 and read 10604 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 4):

I wonder if making Precheck available through an additional channel will continue to add to the qualifying paxs and thus potentially create lines/waits in busier airports

I don't know about all airports, but the first time I went through PreCheck at DEN it was a little spot on the right side of south, now it is a big space with two belts on the other side. More people do it, the allocated space will grow.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-07-19 19:47:00 and read 10573 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):

While there are plenty of times where I have gotten off the plane to an empty immigration hall (I can't remember the last time I sat in coach on an international flight so am always off rather fast) , there have been times where the general line at ATL or JFK has been 45 minutes long and Global Entry has breezed me through.

Even today, I left my desk at my office at 305p and was at my gate by 320p for a 340p flight -including the 8 minute drive to the field, clear security and get to A12 at ATL. Most people would think I'm nuts but knowing I have PreCheck and how long it takes meant I can cut it really close and be more productive at work and not waste time.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: JHwk
Posted 2013-07-19 20:13:05 and read 10514 times.

Some airports care about the citizenship for Pre, others don't. You can enter the program without being a citizen; if you show a foreign passport at the checkpoint they might force you into regular screening ~40% of the time.

Sure makes it a great airport experience; less than 4 minutes from the curb to lounge at LAX. Even had a wad of cash returned to me in the Pre line after I had left security. Was surprised to be paged...

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: ukoverlander
Posted 2013-07-19 20:31:44 and read 10463 times.

Quoting JHwk (Reply 14):
Some airports care about the citizenship for Pre, others don't. You can enter the program without being a citizen; if you show a foreign passport at the checkpoint they might force you into regular screening ~40% of the time.

I'm not sure I follow your logic - why would this differ from one airport to the next airport when the program is run by the TSA? Also what source do you get your 40% figures from? As I posted above, which is taken directly from the TSA Pre site.

"Current TSA Pre✓™ participants, including those eligible via a CBP Trusted Traveler Program such as Global Entry, will continue to receive TSA Pre✓™ eligibility."

If you are eligible you are eligible - it's advertised as one of the benefits of obtaining 'Global Entry'.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-19 21:58:11 and read 9891 times.

I applied for Nexus primarily to have Pre, and probably won't fly to (well, from) the US until my interview and approval. It's still somewhat unclear from the wording if Canadian permanent residents are applicable, since they are for Nexus but apparently not for Pre, although my citizenship may have changed by the time for my interview.

Call me old fashioned, but I draw the line at a government-owned box designed to see me naked. That's enough Orwell for me.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: airindia787
Posted 2013-07-19 23:26:10 and read 9432 times.

I have Global Entry and PreCheck, so the $85 is not worth it for me, especially since I mostly fly DL. PreCheck is an excellent program. I used to avoid MCO like the plague because of its long security lines, but now I don't mind going through it at all.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: m11stephen
Posted 2013-07-19 23:58:23 and read 9298 times.

I absolutely love TSA PreCheck! I've used it in RDU and DTW and it was an absolute pleasure, yes a pleasure, to use! I was through in less than 30 seconds. The screeners were incredibly friendly and relaxed. it almost felt like my own private terminal (I was the only one in line both times).

My fear is that so many people will buy into this and then the PreCheck lines will become just as slow and take just as long as the normal screening lanes.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-07-20 01:47:12 and read 8901 times.

It needs to be very low cost in my opinion and should be available to any US citizen w/o a criminal background minimum. It should be available at all US airports for all US airlines too. The stupid liquid restrictions should go away at that point with membership too. The ony thing that justifies maintaining it for Pre Check members now is that it is not available everywhere. Although I do know members who pack full size products anyway and say it has never been an issue that is not something I feel comfortable doing.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 18):
My fear is that so many people will buy into this and then the PreCheck lines will become just as slow and take just as long as the normal screening lanes.

TSA is all about the mission creep so this is definately not a fringe concern that at some point expidited screening might revert to non pre check standard. TSA of 2003 is very different from TSA of 2013. In many ways that is NOT a good thing. I'm certain the transition has cost them some quality front line people. (I know I'd never believe if I was a screener I was making the world safe by taking away sunscreen from baggage workers and this was documented at PHX in the very early days of the liquid ban)

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: JHwk
Posted 2013-07-20 08:25:27 and read 7307 times.

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 15):
I'm not sure I follow your logic - why would this differ from one airport to the next airport when the program is run by the TSA? Also what source do you get your 40% figures from? As I posted above, which is taken directly from the TSA Pre site.

Wife is not a citizen, but has Pre (not global entry) via the 1K program. It always shows up on the boarding pass. Two of 5 flights (both at LAX) she was pushed into the regular line, despite the triple beep. Agent's explanation is citizens only the first time, and the second time was you need a US identification card. Once she was let through at LAX, twice at other airports. She doesn't like carrying her Green Card, and doesn't have a US driver's license.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-07-20 11:41:01 and read 6292 times.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 16):
I applied for Nexus primarily to have Pre, and probably won't fly to (well, from) the US until my interview and approval. It's still somewhat unclear from the wording if Canadian permanent residents are applicable, since they are for Nexus but apparently not for Pre, although my citizenship may have changed by the time for my interview.

If you have NEXUS, you get PreCheck. Doesn't matter if you're a Canadian LPR or a US LPR etc.

With NEXUS US citizens also get to use the Canadian version, only I believe they still have the MMW scanners at some airports (I remember this at YYZ a few years back).

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-07-20 12:50:25 and read 6107 times.

This would be worth it. I have gold status with AA, but if the elite line at ORD gets too long, they send the gold F/Fs to the main security checkpoint. One line at elite security is PreCheck only. So, the other line is for non-Pre elites.

On the other hand, if I come back from a foreign country, it's either Canada with customs at a Canadian airport, or via a cruise ship terminal. So, I just haven't had any incentive to join Global Entry.

The only problem, at least with Global Entry/PreCheck, has been that everyone in a travel party must be a part of it. You can't piggyback chidren. So, will road warrior parents spend $85, so that their kids can go through the elite lines?

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-07-20 15:09:56 and read 5971 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 22):
So, will road warrior parents spend $85, so that their kids can go through the elite lines?

Not necessarily. Remember, children under 12 or 13 (I can't remember which), go through the WTMD, keep their shoes on etc.

Also remember that most airports the PreCheck line is separate from the elite line. It's like this at LAX T7, SEA, SNA and some others. Of course when I left LAX on Monday morning, it would have been faster for me to use the 1K/F line then jump across to the PreCheck lane than it was to wait in the PreCheck line. It took 10 minutes to get through.  
Quoting ckfred (Reply 22):
On the other hand, if I come back from a foreign country, it's either Canada with customs at a Canadian airport, or via a cruise ship terminal. So, I just haven't had any incentive to join Global Entry.

Get NEXUS. It won't help with your cruise ship, but it WILL help (immensely, I might add) at airports and border crossings. Of course, everyone in your family has to have NEXUS to use the lanes on the road and at the airport...and NEXUS costs $50 less than GE, and you get GE thrown in for free...

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2013-07-20 15:31:31 and read 5929 times.

I wonder if being SIDA approved helps quicken the process at all.? It sounds like much of the same background checks.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: michman
Posted 2013-07-20 17:47:40 and read 5843 times.

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 15):
I'm not sure I follow your logic - why would this differ from one airport to the next airport when the program is run by the TSA? Also what source do you get your 40% figures from? As I posted above, which is taken directly from the TSA Pre site.

"Current TSA Pre✓™ participants, including those eligible via a CBP Trusted Traveler Program such as Global Entry, will continue to receive TSA Pre✓™ eligibility."

If you are eligible you are eligible - it's advertised as one of the benefits of obtaining 'Global Entry'.

Again, Global Entry does not guarantee Pre-Check. The current requirements still list US or Canadian citzenship as pre-requisites.

"U.S. citizens currently enrolled in CBP’s Global Entry, SENTRI or NEXUS Trusted Traveler programs are automatically eligible to participate in TSA Pre✓™. As of November 15, 2012, Canadian citizens who are members of NEXUS are also qualified to participate in TSA Pre✓™."

There have been reports of non-citizens getting Pre access via their airline status (since the airlines don't know your citizenship), but getting denied access once entering the GE information in their profile.

[Edited 2013-07-20 17:48:23]

[Edited 2013-07-20 17:48:45]

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: ORDFan
Posted 2013-07-20 18:32:21 and read 5748 times.

How does United not have this at ORD yet?!? Also, any chance WN gets in on this?

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-07-20 19:07:47 and read 5742 times.

Quoting ORDFan (Reply 26):

UA has PreCheck at both T1 and T2 at ORD...as well as at EWR T3, CLE, IAD, IAH C, LAX T7, SFO and DEN to cover their hubs...

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: copter808
Posted 2013-07-20 20:11:32 and read 5657 times.

Quoting ORDFan (Reply 26):
How does United not have this at ORD yet?!? Also, any chance WN gets in on this?

UA has had it for a long time at ORD. As you face the ticket counters in T1, it's to the extreme left. It has usually taken me 30-60 seconds to get through it, depending on the time of day.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-21 00:31:31 and read 5448 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
If you have NEXUS, you get PreCheck. Doesn't matter if you're a Canadian LPR or a US LPR etc.

The text on the TSA website makes it sound like it's exclusively for Canadian citizens:

Quote:
As of November 15, 2012, Canadian citizens who are members of NEXUS are also qualified to participate in TSA Pre✓™.


Not that it should matter much, I'll likely be a Canadian citizen by the next time I fly.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
With NEXUS US citizens also get to use the Canadian version, only I believe they still have the MMW scanners at some airports (I remember this at YYZ a few years back).

NEXUS holders at Canadian airports go to the front of the line. Same security, which can involve MMW if the WTMD is alerted, but opt-out is possible and widely advertised. I've seen the MMW used for secondary at YVR (sadly), but no idea how pat downs are handled.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-07-21 07:21:00 and read 5257 times.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 29):
I've seen the MMW used for secondary at YVR (sadly), but no idea how pat downs are handled.

Why is MMW use for secondary sad? It's safe and far less intrusive than a patdown.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: jfidler
Posted 2013-07-21 07:32:50 and read 5248 times.

I guess this new announcement is to cover frequent traveler Americans who don't have a passport. Any American with a passport is probably better off paying the additional $15 ($100 instead of $85) to join Global Entry, since Pre-Check is included.

I noticed on my most recent flight with UA that I was able to enter my Trusted Traveler number (basically Global Entry number) into my reservation on UA's site, even though a) I did not book through UA's site and b) I was accruing FF miles on OZ. That's great for me, as in the past I ran into the hurdle where I wasn't a member of the carrier's FF program (so not an elite on it either), so I had to call in to have them add in my Trusted Traveler number - there was no such option at online check-in nor when viewing the reservation online. Having the Trusted Traveler number in the reservation triggered the pre-check qualification for that reservation for me.

As for the cost for the program, my guess is this program has to be revenue neutral i.e. no additional cost to the taxpayer, so the fees paid cover the costs of running the program. I could be wrong though - that's just a guess.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: by738
Posted 2013-07-21 08:16:14 and read 5167 times.

Its just a shame that inbound foreign visitors ie UK who would be willing to have pre-authorisation checks and pay a fee etc are not covered by any of these programs. I dread frequent travel to US due to the immigration nightmares at most of the major US airports

[Edited 2013-07-21 08:16:49]

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-07-21 10:05:51 and read 5050 times.

Quoting by738 (Reply 32):
Its just a shame that inbound foreign visitors ie UK who would be willing to have pre-authorisation checks and pay a fee etc are not covered by any of these programs.

I remember getting an email reminding me that Australia SmartGate was going to accept Global Entry to expedite Customs. I don't know about the UK but it is possible that is coming soon.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-21 11:54:50 and read 4935 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
Why is MMW use for secondary sad? It's safe and far less intrusive than a patdown.

Well, any 'alert' by MMW still has to be handled by a patdown; it's been proven that the machines can save and release images (and some have been from a Florida courthouse, obtained by the FOIA, if I remember correctly) despite the public being constantly reassured of the opposite; the machines are produced by a company that has publicized connections to members of the US government; they often do not allow you to maintain a clear line of sight to your belongings (which is probably why you hear more about TSA theft than any other international screening agency); there may be unpublicized or as of yet unknown health concerns (I don't believe there are, but the potential exists); they are reactive security measures that don't protect against new threats or bypasses of the checkpoint altogether.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: wingman
Posted 2013-07-21 13:21:57 and read 4847 times.

So let me get this straight, I just submitted my app for GE, and will now wait to see if I'm accepted. If I am accepted do I then automatically get Pre Check as a US citizen or am I simply "eligible" and have to then apply for that separately?

Also, do I need to add my ID #/s to my airline profile so that the numbers are part of my ticketing documents (boarding pass etc.) or do you just flash the boarding pass and GE Card and walk on through?

Not sure why I never did this before. My primary airports are SFO and ORD and carriers are VX and UA with priority status for regular TSA checks.

Anyway, have heard good things and my wife will also apply if it's all worth the application aggro.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-07-21 14:22:42 and read 4764 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 35):
So let me get this straight, I just submitted my app for GE, and will now wait to see if I'm accepted. If I am accepted do I then automatically get Pre Check as a US citizen or am I simply "eligible" and have to then apply for that separately?

You "automatically" are PreCheck eligible once you are approved for GE. You'll have to go through the (easy) interview, but once that's taken care of you're set for PreCheck.

Quoting wingman (Reply 35):
Also, do I need to add my ID #/s to my airline profile so that the numbers are part of my ticketing documents (boarding pass etc.) or do you just flash the boarding pass and GE Card and walk on through?

You'll have a 9 digit PASS ID # on your GOES account and on your GE card. Enter that number in to your reservation when booking, and you'll be approved or denied once you get your BP. One tip: make sure your name on your ticket is exactly as it is on your GE card, middle name and all. Showing the card at security isn't necessary, but I use my NEXUS card because it doesn't have an address on it.

One other disclaimer: just because you have GE doesn't "guarantee" you'll be allowed to use PreCheck on a given flight. In my experience, it's very helpful. By the way, GE is fantastic coming back in to the country.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-07-22 17:00:39 and read 4282 times.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 34):
it's been proven that the machines can save and release images (and some have been from a Florida courthouse, obtained by the FOIA, if I remember correctly)

The MMW machines in the US do not have any image created. How can they save something that is not created?

Quoting opethfan (Reply 34):
Well, any 'alert' by MMW still has to be handled by a patdown;

So you support 100 percent patdowns?

Quoting opethfan (Reply 34):
they often do not allow you to maintain a clear line of sight to your belongings (which is probably why you hear more about TSA theft than any other international screening agency

What does this have to do with the technology? That's why you look which way the MMW faces and pick the line where you will face your belongings. It's not hard to deal with.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 34):
there may be unpublicized or as of yet unknown health concerns (I don't believe there are, but the potential exists)

What would the mechanism of the damage to health be?

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-22 18:57:50 and read 4168 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 37):
The MMW machines in the US do not have any image created. How can they save something that is not created?

The gumby software is an overlay; the image is still produced internally and used to create the overlay. I don't see my computer manage memory, but it's still being done.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 37):
So you support 100 percent patdowns?

No, I support what most other countries do, including countries with a risk of terrorism such as France: WTMD with a male and female agent standing ready to perform patdowns on alert / random. In CDG T2A there's a red box on the ground between two screening lanes. Stand in the box with full view of your stuff and get a courteous patdown.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 37):
What does this have to do with the technology? That's why you look which way the MMW faces and pick the line where you will face your belongings. It's not hard to deal with.

It's just another symptom of the poor experience the TSA delivers; a lack of thoughtfulness for the public and a flaw with the design that has allowed for large amount of property to go missing.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 37):
What would the mechanism of the damage to health be?

Beats me. I don't think it's unsafe, but there were valid concerns about the amount of radiation the backscatter machines subject a person to, especially one's genitals.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-07-22 19:44:58 and read 4132 times.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 38):
No, I support what most other countries do, including countries with a risk of terrorism such as France: WTMD with a male and female agent standing ready to perform patdowns on alert / random. In CDG T2A there's a red box on the ground between two screening lanes. Stand in the box with full view of your stuff and get a courteous patdown.

If you prefer a patdown to a MMW, that's an option everywhere that uses them. The vast majority of passengers, however, do not.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 38):
It's just another symptom of the poor experience the TSA delivers; a lack of thoughtfulness for the public and a flaw with the design that has allowed for large amount of property to go missing.

What, exactly, has been poor about your recent TSA experiences? I fly weekly (sometimes multiple times) and about 90 percent of my TSA experiences are just fine (as in as good as or better than the better countries in Europe).

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-22 19:52:32 and read 4121 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
If you prefer a patdown to a MMW, that's an option everywhere that uses them. The vast majority of passengers, however, do not.

And I do, which is why the US is not on my strict no-fly list, as the UK and AUS are.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
What, exactly, has been poor about your recent TSA experiences? I fly weekly (sometimes multiple times) and about 90 percent of my TSA experiences are just fine (as in as good as or better than the better countries in Europe).

Most of my experiences have been fine, but other times I've been treated with such contempt that I wonder what kind of training the agents receive to make them so authoritative and distasteful. But I am aware of what others have experienced. There'd be no desire for precheck, nor whole sites and forums dedicated to the level of screening if the experience was peachy.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-07-22 20:07:37 and read 4096 times.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 40):
Most of my experiences have been fine, but other times I've been treated with such contempt that I wonder what kind of training the agents receive to make them so authoritative and distasteful.

But the States do not have a monopoly on surly screeners. There are good and bad screeners everywhere. That's why I don't understand the contempt for the U.S.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-22 22:58:24 and read 4005 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 41):
But the States do not have a monopoly on surly screeners. There are good and bad screeners everywhere. That's why I don't understand the contempt for the U.S.

I will absolutely give you that one. My contempt isn't for the US; I have had nothing but great times visiting there. But when the security is more invasive than it need to be, I'll do my part to speak up. Not because of any contempt; quite the opposite - I love the country and don't want my visits or anyone else's to be marred like you see on FT, tsastatus or r/operationgrabass.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-07-23 02:04:25 and read 3928 times.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 42):
I love the country and don't want my visits or anyone else's to be marred like you see on FT, tsastatus or r/operationgrabass.

It's certainly your choice, but I'd take a lot of the posts on FT and certainly the other sites (especially Reddit) with a grain of salt. I think a lot of people's attitudes aren't great at the airport and that can exacerbate the situation.

I fly around 100k miles a year and before the BSX were removed I would opt out all the time at PHX--it was really the only airport I ever got sent to those machines at. Every time the TSA folks were polite, friendly and fairly quick. I never once had someone "molest" me during the pat downs, but I'd always crack a joke or start laughing when they said they'd run their hands up my legs until they met "resistance."

FWIW, the whole MMW thing sucks, but y'all have them up in Canada too. Hell in Australia you can't even opt out if you're sent to one. If you refuse, you don't fly.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-07-23 02:14:01 and read 3918 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 43):
I fly around 100k miles a year and before the BSX were removed I would opt out all the time at PHX--it was really the only airport I ever got sent to those machines at. Every time the TSA folks were polite, friendly and fairly quick. I never once had someone "molest" me during the pat downs, but I'd always crack a joke or start laughing when they said they'd run their hands up my legs until they met "resistance."

It's true, when the system works as it should, you don't hear a peep about it.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 43):
FWIW, the whole MMW thing sucks, but y'all have them up in Canada too. Hell in Australia you can't even opt out if you're sent to one. If you refuse, you don't fly.

As secondary with an opt-out, I won't protest as much as if it were the TSA. And it's a shame that Australia may be one of the places I'll have to research into before booking any travel.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-07-23 02:40:00 and read 3908 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 4):
I wonder if making Precheck available through an additional channel will continue to add to the qualifying paxs and thus potentially create lines/waits in busier airports

Though not guaranteed considering TSA's prior demonstrated lack of common sense, one would hope that the agency would add more Pre✓ lanes as enrollment grown.

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 15):

I'm not sure I follow your logic - why would this differ from one airport to the next airport when the program is run by the TSA? Also what source do you get your 40% figures from? As I posted above, which is taken directly from the TSA Pre site.

"Current TSA Pre✓™ participants, including those eligible via a CBP Trusted Traveler Program such as Global Entry, will continue to receive TSA Pre✓™ eligibility."

If you are eligible you are eligible - it's advertised as one of the benefits of obtaining 'Global Entry'.

There's a difference between being eligible and having the officer at the entrance to the line actually being aware of the exact requirements (and note the inconsistent explanations for denial):

Quoting JHwk (Reply 20):

Wife is not a citizen, but has Pre (not global entry) via the 1K program. It always shows up on the boarding pass. Two of 5 flights (both at LAX) she was pushed into the regular line, despite the triple beep. Agent's explanation is citizens only the first time, and the second time was you need a US identification card. Once she was let through at LAX, twice at other airports. She doesn't like carrying her Green Card, and doesn't have a US driver's license.

Topic: RE: Buy Into TSA Pre Check For $85/5 Years
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-07-23 03:07:41 and read 3889 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 45):
Though not guaranteed considering TSA's prior demonstrated lack of common sense, one would hope that the agency would add more Pre✓ lanes as enrollment grown.

They have added more lanes. I think ATL has 4. SNA has two in the morning, DFW has them all over and so on. One would hope that an airport like SEA would have multiple lanes, but it doesn't at the moment.


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