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Topic: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: UAEflyer
Posted 2013-07-28 23:17:07 and read 12895 times.

The new boarding pass system will be monitored and is expected to help to reduce the delays and missing slots.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...airport-to-cut-cost-of-delays.html

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: Boeing77w
Posted 2013-07-29 00:29:28 and read 12573 times.

Already in use with BA at T5. Generally works well. However, the 35min conformance rule for security can sometimes cause issues if you have passengers turning at 45mins and they have issues with the booking/large party/excess baggage payments etc.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: nighthawk
Posted 2013-07-29 00:54:04 and read 12444 times.

Quote:

Boarding passes already include a bar code in which the passenger’s flight details are embedded, including the gate and terminal. Instead of being read by airport staff, the pass is scanned by an automatic gate and can be used to tell airlines if, for example, a passenger has entered the departure lounge.

Doesn't this already happen at every single airport? Every airport I've ever been through has scanned the barcode on my boarding pass, I thought this was to log who had made it into the departure lounge and highlight no-shows?

Quote:

If the passenger turns up less than 30 minutes before departure — the cut-off time set by airlines to reach the gate — the traveller is sent back to the check-in desk.

They have been doing this at T5 since it opened!

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2013-07-29 00:54:50 and read 12444 times.

It is an interesting idea; thank you for sharing the link. I never thought about it in terms of cost to the airline, but it makes sense.

Couldn't the airline could fly the bags without their owner on the flight and not have to offload them? In that case, the bags would arrive early and wait for the passenger. What is the issue with that?

Will the boarding passes still be read by an airline employee at the gate and does this mean at various places in the terminal the pax will have to scan their pass? Wouldn't those lines cause additional delays because people would have to wait in a line? Would the airline put the pax on the next available flight, when he or she is sent back to the check-in desk?

Thank you,

laxboeingman

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: Boeing77w
Posted 2013-07-29 01:47:34 and read 12206 times.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
Doesn't this already happen at every single airport? Every airport I've ever been through has scanned the barcode on my boarding pass, I thought this was to log who had made it into the departure lounge and highlight no-shows?

The IATA Bar-Coded Boarding Pass initiative (BCBP) ended in 2010 with a 95% global capability.

Although the software may scan the boarding pass, it isn't necessarily linked to the passengers reference in order to record passing through security. The process of scanning it simply confirms it's a genuine pass. The article isn't too clear. It's what happens with the information once it's been scanned that is changing.

[Edited 2013-07-29 01:53:20]

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: Brenintw
Posted 2013-07-29 01:59:34 and read 12126 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 3):
Couldn't the airline could fly the bags without their owner on the flight and not have to offload them

Ask the families of those who perished at Lockerbie how they feel about not off-loading baggage of no-shows ...

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-07-29 02:01:09 and read 12115 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 3):
Couldn't the airline could fly the bags without their owner on the flight and not have to offload them? In that case, the bags would arrive early and wait for the passenger. What is the issue with that?

Since Lockerby there is indeed an issue with that. The rule is, is the passenger not on board, the luggage does not fly on that aircraft.

Now, the system they are describing sounds like they have added an RFID tag to make the boarding pass "smart"

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: jumpjets
Posted 2013-07-29 03:24:53 and read 11837 times.

I am not sure what is described as the planned approach is what actually happens at T5.

I go up and down from T5 [mainly domestically admittedly] quite often and after I have cleared security there is no check on me being at the gate until it is time to board - so BA have no idea whether I have been sitting at the gate for the required 30 minutes or not.

So if the new system is to operate as described this sounds like T5 will have to introduce corralled off gate areas instead of the open plan arrangement that exists at the moment.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: CrimsonNL
Posted 2013-07-29 03:32:02 and read 11794 times.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
Doesn't this already happen at every single airport? Every airport I've ever been through has scanned the barcode on my boarding pass, I thought this was to log who had made it into the departure lounge and highlight no-shows?

Not at AMS unfortunately! God how many delays that could prevent.. At AMS the idiots at airport security will let you into the departure lounge with just about anything without scanning it. A printed itinerary or printed reservation is usually enough to enter the departure lounge without even being checked in!

Martijn

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: Crosswind
Posted 2013-07-29 03:41:46 and read 11744 times.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 7):
I am not sure what is described as the planned approach is what actually happens at T5.

I go up and down from T5 [mainly domestically admittedly] quite often and after I have cleared security there is no check on me being at the gate until it is time to board - so BA have no idea whether I have been sitting at the gate for the required 30 minutes or not.

So if the new system is to operate as described this sounds like T5 will have to introduce corralled off gate areas instead of the open plan arrangement that exists at the moment.

This the same as the T5 system, they're not checking who's at the gate (no gate lounges in T5 as you know)

What they are checking at T5 is that you have cleared security at STD-35min, if you haven't they can start to offload rather than seeing if you turn up at the gate by STD. This means the bags can be removed if required, and pax can be turned back at security for re-booking rather than getting all the way to the gate to be turned bck.

Regards
CROSSWIND

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: GCT64
Posted 2013-07-29 03:57:57 and read 11682 times.

"Boarding passes already include a bar code in which the passenger’s flight details are embedded, including the gate and terminal. Instead of being read by airport staff, the pass is scanned by an automatic gate and can be used to tell airlines if, for example, a passenger has entered the departure lounge."

From my experience this has already been fully implemented at EDI, LHR T1 and, I recall, LGW.
If you step/push/run round the slow moving "once a year flyers", it is a lot quicker to get to the security queue than it previously was.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: WildcatYXU
Posted 2013-07-29 08:00:27 and read 8968 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Since Lockerby there is indeed an issue with that. The rule is, is the passenger not on board, the luggage does not fly on that aircraft.



I guess the rule only applies when the passenger missed his flight due to his own fault. Otherwise we would never receive our delayed luggage, would we? Not to mention that our checked luggage is screened anyway, sometimes several times. I regularly travel with two tool/spare part cases and I found a record of secondary screening in them many times. Once the extra screened bag arrived sooner to my destination than myself.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-07-29 08:17:34 and read 8716 times.

of course, if the airline leaves your luggage behind and you are already at the destination, it is their obligation to send ther pieces asap.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 10):
the pass is scanned by an automatic gate and can be used to tell airlines if, for example, a passenger has entered the departure lounge."

when I read the headline I did not think about the old fashioned way of scanning a bar code at a gate which will rather delay the flow of passengers.

The whole matter will become smart with RFID

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: jumpjets
Posted 2013-07-29 08:37:57 and read 8470 times.

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 9):
What they are checking at T5 is that you have cleared security at STD-35min

OK - I follow now - so whilst it will help in some respects, it won't help with the problem caused by passengers spending too much time in the shops and cafes who turn up at the gate after departure time - or just plain forget to go to the gate.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: Boeing77w
Posted 2013-07-29 08:49:37 and read 8312 times.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 11):
I guess the rule only applies when the passenger missed his flight due to his own fault. Otherwise we would never receive our delayed luggage, would we?

If the airline have to send a bag unaccompanied to a passenger who has already flown then it's a Rush Bag. They're subject to additional, mandatory screening

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: aerorobnz
Posted 2013-07-29 09:20:48 and read 7888 times.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 13):
OK - I follow now - so whilst it will help in some respects, it won't help with the problem caused by passengers spending too much time in the shops and cafes who turn up at the gate after departure time - or just plain forget to go to the gate.

True, but 1) it does limit the search area and 2) it allows you to sort/offload the passengers that have no chance of making their flight sooner, leaving more time to focus on finding the stragglers that can usually be found air-side..

It has been my experience as an Airport Operations Controller that late passengers are on the increase, but duty free features in fewer delays (since LAGS) and in fact the worst offenders are just staying landside for too long.

IMO as the guy who does the bag searches for offloading passengers any tool like this is a great tool. I'd like to see it implemented where I work. My offload success rate would go through the roof. I love a good offload of the kinds of selfish bastards that hold up flights.

I also think an instant $500 or even $1000 fine should apply to anyone who delays departure time in addition to any rebooking fees in the case of offload, and if passenger found before bags then they are added to the airline blacklist until the fine is paid. Any repeat offenders should be placed on the permanent blacklist and be refused travel by the airline concerned for 2 years.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: HBGDS
Posted 2013-07-29 09:52:32 and read 7553 times.

It works at T5, but if your flight is delayed, you have to make sure security allows you to use the fast lane, otherwise, it does get tight, especially if you are trying to board at the T5 "island." As for the bar code biz, yes, most airports do that, either at security itself, or before (just did that at GVA, NCE and ORY for some EZS flights.)

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: viscount630
Posted 2013-07-29 12:57:32 and read 5599 times.

The "suspect" baggage on PA103 was disguised as lost baggage being transported to be returned to its owner, a practice that happens thousands of times a day. At no time was it linked to any passenger, show or no-show on the flight.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: jtl11968
Posted 2013-07-29 20:58:40 and read 2778 times.

Quoting viscount630 (Reply 17):

Veering off topic but responding to the above comment:

In the late 90's and early 00's when I was in baggage, all unaccompanied bags were screened, kept in a secure area and the captain had to agree to accept the bags for carriage via signature along with my signature verifying I screened/x-rayed the bags and they were with me at all times. At my airline, we carried those bags in hold 5 in case the flight deck did not agree to take them. Not such a rigorous practice prior to December 1988.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-07-29 23:09:04 and read 2221 times.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 15):
I also think an instant $500 or even $1000 fine should apply to anyone who delays departure time in addition to any rebooking fees in the case of offload,

Excuse me, but we are talking about customers here, not subjects who are default on their tax payment. The term "offenders" is mis-placed here as well.

Quoting viscount630 (Reply 17):
The "suspect" baggage on PA103 was disguised as lost baggage being transported to be returned to its owner, a

just by memory I challenge that. IIRC the baggage came from MLA and was trans-shipped to PA , went on the FRA-LHR portion of PA103, which was operated by a 727 bulk loaded and was put inside an LD3 at LHR to go onto thze 747.

Back then, there was no procedure in place to match a pssenger with loaded luggage or vv. This was developed by fraport in the aftermath of the Lockerby tragedy.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: aerorobnz
Posted 2013-07-30 00:14:18 and read 2093 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
Excuse me, but we are talking about customers here, not subjects who are default on their tax payment. The term "offenders" is mis-placed here as well.

These Customers are offenders. They are inbreach of their terms and conditions of travel. Offender is the correct term, as it is for something like road users who run red lights and ignore road rules. These customers selfishly and very often deliberately place themselves above all the well behaved and on time passengers sitting on the plane waiting for them. These late people very often are the reason the other passengers miss their onward connections at the other end of their flight etc.

- they cost the company flying them to their destination in terms of fuel, labour, rebookings and accommodation for missed connection
-They cost the airline who has to hold for the occupied gate in terms of fuel,labour, rebookings and accommodation for missed connections.

Yes they should be fined for the delay they cause. Same as someone who has to pay for the damage they cause to another vehicle in countries where insurance is not mandatory. They are a menace to everyone else in the airport

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: bongodog1964
Posted 2013-07-30 03:05:44 and read 1966 times.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 20):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
Excuse me, but we are talking about customers here, not subjects who are default on their tax payment. The term "offenders" is mis-placed here as well.


These Customers are offenders. They are inbreach of their terms and conditions of travel. Offender is the correct term, as it is for something like road users who run red lights and ignore road rules. These customers selfishly and very often deliberately place themselves above all the well behaved and on time passengers sitting on the plane waiting for them. These late people very often are the reason the other passengers miss their onward connections at the other end of their flight etc.

Some of the "offenders" undoubtedly cause disruption though their own selfish behaviour, the ones who sit in the bar oblivious to the time, the ones who decide to have a meal when they only have 40 minutes to boarding etc. Others though are just victims of inexperience or circumstances. Not every flier is competent enough to realise that the gate might be 10 minutes away from the lounge, some have problems followign signs and head off in the wrong direction, others have already had long journeys and simply fall asleep through tiredness.. I know a lot of people who fall in the "requires guidance" category it only takes one to delay a plane.

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-07-30 03:10:22 and read 1959 times.

[quote=aerorobnz,reply=20]
These Customers are offenders[/quote

mmmhh, interesting point of view. How about shooting them?

Or, better, cordon them into a wire fenced area 1 hour before departure and goose marching them on board n the sequence of row numbers, starting from the last row. The Ministry of Funny Walks will make suggestions.

Now, seriously, the airline business is a service business, passengers who do not arrive at the gate in time can be left behind, re-booking on low fares usually comes along with paying more anyhow, so your part of revenge is already fulfilled that way. And, most important, calm down

[Edited 2013-07-30 03:11:13]

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: aerorobnz
Posted 2013-07-30 05:13:56 and read 1843 times.

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 21):
I know a lot of people who fall in the "requires guidance" category it only takes one to delay a plane.

Yes you are right to an extent. In my experience however, they are vastly outnumbered by the other type.I would say for every one of those passengers you'd have 10 of the other more selfish kind. Attitude and general body language at a gate tells you what category they fit into, and genuine cases like you mention are actually very obviously dazed and confused as opposed to beligerent, even hostile.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Now, seriously, the airline business is a service business, passengers who do not arrive at the gate in time can be left behind, re-booking on low fares usually comes along with paying more anyhow, so your part of revenge is already fulfilled that way. And, most important, calm down

I am calm, and very rational. Your flippant remarks are less helpful than offering a genuine solution to a chronic issue that the industry needs to sort out.

Late passengers can be on any fare type, any class so what you say about recouping is wrong. Many never have to pay anything at all in rebooking fare costs. I leave passengers behind all day every day, but the price is often paid by everyone else except the person at fault. Where possible I do make sure a new airfare is charged for the use it or lose it type fares, but that is not always possible.

I coordinate an international airport operation for an award winning airline so yes I am well aware that the airline industry is a service industry. It's the poor passengers who do board ontime, but who half to wait for up to 30 minutes while we locate baggage in the hold and restow the baggage cans that I feel sorry for and who have stuck to the rules. Imagine doing everything 100% correctly for your flight and still missing your connection at your destination and having to personally pay an insurance excess as a result because someone else cannot finish their beer in the bar ontime.

I happily offer genuine and very good customer service for those who don't breach the terms and conditions of travel and this system at heathrow at least offers an opportunity to minimise the delays and costs. I applaud it, but people will continue to be late repeatedly unless as a further penalty system is initiated. Once they know it will cost them some serious money then they will hopefully stop this behaviour.

This is not about revenge, this is about recouperating the additional costs incurred solely because they were late. And if you read your T&Cs on your ticket you will see that service is reserved first and foremost to those who adhere to the airline contract. If a hotel is entitled to keep your first night's tariff for not arriving then an airline should also be entitled to recoup any costs too.. A $400 fare from someone who is late might incur 4 or 5 times as much in extra expenses as a result.... Just because you can't see the costs behind the scenes does not mean they don't exist

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-07-30 05:26:58 and read 1818 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Since Lockerby there is indeed an issue with that. The rule is, is the passenger not on board, the luggage does not fly on that aircraft.

Now, the system they are describing sounds like they have added an RFID tag to make the boarding pass "smart"
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 11):
I guess the rule only applies when the passenger missed his flight due to his own fault. Otherwise we would never receive our delayed luggage, would we? Not to mention that our checked luggage is screened anyway, sometimes several times. I regularly travel with two tool/spare part cases and I found a record of secondary screening in them many times. Once the extra screened bag arrived sooner to my destination than myself.


I had a similar situation my self:WN had my luggage in BUF a day before I got there. According to the station manager who came to me because the plane went tech and gave a alternate routing back from LAS to BUF, which I accepted, which included a free ticket to wherever WN flew for me and a companion. I never did use it because I would have rather had a hotel room and a good night sleep instead of flying from LAS to DAL to BWI to BUF. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Oh yeah they did not give me any meal vouchers or food for my epic 22 hours of journey time.

[Edited 2013-07-30 05:32:51]

Topic: RE: Passengers In LHR Are Monitored
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-07-30 06:20:26 and read 1741 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 24):
I had a similar situation my self:WN had my luggage in BUF a day before I got there.

It always amazes me to hear that safety / security standards within the US are handled much more lightly than what they impose on the rest of the world. If you'd know the senseless and highly expensive BS freight fowarders have to undertake in Europe by the request of the USA, even if the freight does not go there, you'd shake your head about it.

It is OK for passengers and their luggage, but then the rules should be kept. A pax has to sit above his luggage, he does not know that the carrier may leave some behind. if that happens and the pax has completed the flight and the bags are sent next day after second or third screening it is OK.


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