Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5831938/

Topic: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: beechtobus
Posted 2013-07-30 07:30:19 and read 6683 times.

http://ir.spirit.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=781231

This move had been rumored for some time. What are everyone's thought on this move? I think it is a good move for Spirit as they will be able to cover the broader PHX area instead of just a more affluent corner of the valley. In most cases, they have shown that they prefer to operate from the larger, non-satellite airports.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: scutfarcus
Posted 2013-07-30 09:06:53 and read 6396 times.

Phoenix is so sprawling I'm kinda surprised this really makes much difference to people... PHX obviously has many more amenities, however. Interesting development anyhow!

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Raventech
Posted 2013-07-30 09:29:49 and read 6297 times.

Quoting scutfarcus (Reply 1):

IWA is on very far east end of the valley versus PHX location at the center of the valley. So for a good chunk of people it is farther to drive to IWA so unless the discount is good enough they would just go PHX.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: futureatp
Posted 2013-07-30 09:32:25 and read 6277 times.

I like it. Ever since the AA/US merger, I have been hoping they would show up in PHX. I do a lot of non business travel and that means it comes out of my own pocket. I have seen the fares only go up since the mergers and I only expect they will continue to do so after this one. I have flown Spirit a few times out of AZA and they have saved me A LOT of $. You will hear no complaints from me about their fees and lack of legroom. Save me $900 on an itinerary vs WN, US, or UA and I will be one happy customer.

Problem for me though is I live in the NW valley and AZA is over an hour drive, a drive that takes me right past sky harbor.... So Spirit moving is a positive for me. I only wish they would restart LAS from Phoenix....

Anyway, not to be off topic, but I fully expect there to be an eventual service draw down in PHX with the new AA. It only makes sense (to me) to funnel more connecting traffic through DFW and leave PHX as a regional hub. Once that happens it would be nice to have another carrier there to put some pressure on keeping fares rising.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2013-07-30 09:34:51 and read 6264 times.

I don't think WN will be thrilled, since NK might attract more leisure pax that were using WN out of PHX. Fortunately WN is strong in that region and around it from California to PHX to Texas.
.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-07-30 09:44:13 and read 6210 times.

Quoting beechtobus (Thread starter):
they will be able to cover the broader PHX area instead of just a more affluent corner of the valley

The area around IWA is hardly "affluent". It's just out in BFE and IWA is slightly closer for EV folks.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-07-30 10:00:22 and read 6148 times.

I'm kind of curious if we will see some expansion/growth in NK's ops out of Phoenix with this move? It's been quite surprising -- the lack of service offered by Spirit; they now have essentially 2 permanent routes -- with one flight each -- plus the seasonal ORD service. Could LAS service even return?

I, and a few others, have wondered out loud for the past year or so why NK didn't start AZA-SAN service as it seemed like kind of a natural. I guess that possibility is now diminished with the move to Sky Harbor but then it's kind of tough to figure out what Spirit might do next...

It will be interesting to see what NK does next in the Valley.

bb

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-07-30 10:05:19 and read 6121 times.

Already covered here yesterday. In the thread title.

OAG Changes 8/2/2013: NK Drops AZA/AA/DL/WN (by enilria Jul 29 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-07-30 11:37:30 and read 5921 times.

I wonder which terminal does Spirit plan on using at PHX. The former AirTran gates at T3N is a possibility, although it has been rumored for a while that Alaska wants those gates to be with DL. Perhaps Alaska will move into T3N and Spirit will take over Alaska's gates at T2.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-07-30 12:31:39 and read 5784 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
wonder which terminal does Spirit plan on using at PHX. The former AirTran gates at T3N is a possibility, although it has been rumored for a while that Alaska wants those gates to be with DL. Perhaps Alaska will move into T3N and Spirit will take over Alaska's gates at T2.

Well, prevailing theory around here is that with AA moving to T-4 and HA moving to T-3 North. Granted HA only needs the gate for a 08:00 departure and a 23:55 arrival. This would leave T-3 South open for UA, AS and Great Lakes to move over from T-2. This will allow PHX to level T-2 for further expansion of T-3. NK could easily go into T-3 south.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
It's just out in BFE and IWA is slightly closer for EV folks.

Really, I would not call it BFE as I live in Chandler and can make it to IWA/AZA in 10 minutes and PHX in 40 minutes. You are correct that it is closer for the East Valley and I think this is going to be the biggest problem with IWA/AZA. NK move to PHX makes people in the North and West valley way more accessible to their service.

I agree with the other poster that with NK and their fair structure coming to PHX that it may lower the cost of some of the fights.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: jmc1975
Posted 2013-07-30 13:09:06 and read 5690 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 9):
This would leave T-3 South open for UA, AS and Great Lakes to move over from T-2. This will allow PHX to level T-2 for further expansion of T-3. NK could easily go into T-3 south.

But, such a major move like that would not likely happen until T-3 South is razed and rebuilt/expanded as is planned.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-07-30 13:15:09 and read 5659 times.

Quoting futureatp (Reply 3):
Ever since the AA/US merger, I have been hoping they would show up in PHX.

This is when I made the connection. Could it be that NK is positioning themselves to take advantage of the inevitable reductions in service at PHX that will result from the merger?

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-07-30 14:56:40 and read 5459 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Already covered here yesterday. In the thread title.

This warrants its own thread IMO. More discussion can go into it without getting cluttered with random discussion on why DL added 1 daily frequency to a few dozen routes going into peak season or other random banter.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 11):
This is when I made the connection. Could it be that NK is positioning themselves to take advantage of the inevitable reductions in service at PHX that will result from the merger?

I think you are on to something. How entertaining is it going to be when NK decides to start doing a focus city like operating out of CLT. PHL is probably safe due to ACY, but who knows.  

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-07-30 15:26:50 and read 5404 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12):
I think you are on to something. How entertaining is it going to be when NK decides to start doing a focus city like operating out of CLT. PHL is probably safe due to ACY, but who knows.

PHL probably isn't safe anymore since NK's started flying there. I think ACY will stay due to the casino contracts, but any further expansion will be from PHL. Of course, they have WN to deal with now.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-07-30 15:43:14 and read 5362 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
I wonder which terminal does Spirit plan on using at PHX. The former AirTran gates at T3N is a possibility, although it has been rumored for a while that Alaska wants those gates to be with DL. Perhaps Alaska will move into T3N and Spirit will take over Alaska's gates at T2.

They will use T3. The former AirTran gate (19) is a Delta gate now, the only open gates are 24, 25 and 26 on the north side. I expect NK to use 24. AS can use some of the DL gates like they do in SLC or they can use 25 and 26.

[Edited 2013-07-30 15:44:22]

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-07-30 21:06:21 and read 5046 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 14):
AS can use some of the DL gates like they do in SLC or they can use 25 and 26.

AS has no interest in leaving T2 unless the City of Phoenix gives them no choice.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-07-30 21:33:39 and read 4993 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 13):
PHL probably isn't safe anymore since NK's started flying there. I think ACY will stay due to the casino contracts, but any further expansion will be from PHL. Of course, they have WN to deal with now.

WN hasn't really put up any fight in PHL for awhile now, so no worries there.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Jerseyguy
Posted 2013-07-30 23:02:26 and read 4891 times.

Quoting futureatp (Reply 3):
You will hear no complaints from me about their fees and lack of legroom

Please state your height for the record. I'm 6'0 and I dislike F9s 30", I can only imagine what an extra 2" would feel like.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-07-30 23:08:18 and read 4865 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 9):
Really, I would not call it BFE as I live in Chandler

I lived in the NW valley and IWA might as well be BFE for anyone living west of Central. I live in Scottsdale now, so I could consider either airport(if IWA had the service), but I still prefer PHX. The whole idea of IWA is flawed.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 15):
AS has no interest in leaving T2 unless the City of Phoenix gives them no choice.

If AS is going to spend the money/resources to relocate, they should take advantage of any AA/US reduction in PHX, and move into T4. Suckling on DL in PHX makes no sense.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-07-30 23:53:05 and read 4726 times.

Man what a slap to the face to AZA. Losing two of three airlines within a year. I think all terminal improvements plans will be put on hold for a while.

Quoting Raventech (Reply 2):
IWA is on very far east end of the valley versus PHX location at the center of the valley. So for a good chunk of people it is farther to drive to IWA so unless the discount is good enough they would just go PHX.

As long as people think they are getting a deal they will make the drive....

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
I, and a few others, have wondered out loud for the past year or so why NK didn't start AZA-SAN service as it seemed like kind of a natural. I guess that possibility is now diminished with the move to Sky Harbor but then it's kind of tough to figure out what Spirit might do next...

PHX-SAN is a strong WN market. As well as US. I could maybe see PHX-FLL flight...

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 14):
They will use T3. The former AirTran gate (19) is a Delta gate now, the only open gates are 24, 25 and 26 on the north side. I expect NK to use 24. AS can use some of the DL gates like they do in SLC or they can use 25 and 26.

Well AA will should be moving its operations to T4 within the next two months (as I've heard) so that will free up gate space. I do not see NK coming to T3N. Gate 24 has been redone and is a widebody capable gate. The city installed duel power cords and duel A/C hoses. This gate will see use from HA (if they ever move their operations) and DL for charters. 25 and 26 may not have tenants but both are used nightly by DL and HA. If NK or AS moves into these gates that will create havoc for RON parking aircraft espically at DL. DL will not give up gate space to an airline unless they are doing the ground handling and the flight do not create conflict with their flight banks.. SY for example.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
If AS is going to spend the money/resources to relocate, they should take advantage of any AA/US reduction in PHX, and move into T4. Suckling on DL in PHX makes no sense.

There is no gate space at T4, between Volaris coming in and AA moving ops what gates could they use? I could not see US(AA) giving up gate space to AS when T3 has alot of gate space.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-07-31 01:39:16 and read 4541 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
If AS is going to spend the money/resources to relocate, they should take advantage of any AA/US reduction in PHX, and move into T4. Suckling on DL in PHX makes no sense.

I would definitely support this move now that the SkyTrain is open and PreCheck is at T4...Especially since T2 was supposed to get PreCheck but did not for whatever reason.  
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 19):
There is no gate space at T4, between Volaris coming in and AA moving ops what gates could they use? I could not see US(AA) giving up gate space to AS when T3 has alot of gate space.

The question is how many gates will a combined US/AA need once they start monkeying around with the flights. AS doesn't need a LOT of gate space--1.5 max.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-07-31 09:19:50 and read 3671 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 19):
Well AA will should be moving its operations to T4 within the next two months (as I've heard) so that will free up gate space. I do not see NK coming to T3N.

The press release on Skyharbors website states they will be moving to the north concourse of T3. 24, 25 and 26 are the only open gates at the moment.
http://skyharbor.com/pressreleases/NewSpiritAirlinesOperations.html

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-07-31 09:33:54 and read 3645 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
I lived in the NW valley and IWA might as well be BFE for anyone living west of Central. I live in Scottsdale now, so I could consider either airport(if IWA had the service), but I still prefer PHX. The whole idea of IWA is flawed.

I understand as I grew up in NE Phoenix and my parents live in Goodyear. From those locations you would have to be saving a lot of money to travel the extra distance to IWA/AZA when you pass by PHX. I do not think a secondary airport in the valley is off base, but the problem with IWA/AZA needs more service. Another thing to remember is that IWA/AZA pulls in people from eastern and southern Arizona.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 19):
Man what a slap to the face to AZA. Losing two of three airlines within a year. I think all terminal improvements plans will be put on hold for a while.

Or they pull the political step of stating the reasoning why they left was due to the lack of a state of the art terminal.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 20):
The question is how many gates will a combined US/AA need once they start monkeying around with the flights. AS doesn't need a LOT of gate space--1.5 max.

Could it also be a limiting process for AS if they go to T-4 instead of T-3? The gates with US alone are all in service and there is nothing available. If AS were to go to T-4 there is no guarantee that they could get more gates when they need them. IMHO

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: illinoisman
Posted 2013-07-31 09:42:35 and read 3630 times.

So, NK is making a move to compete with the upcoming merger of US/AA out of PHX? Two seasonal flights and one really really early morning flight to DFW - I can't expect US/AA to take this seriously.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-07-31 10:15:33 and read 3585 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
If AS is going to spend the money/resources to relocate

They're not.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: dsuairptman
Posted 2013-07-31 10:24:26 and read 3665 times.

T2 is not being razed. Rather it will sit empty and in limbo until some point in the furture. There is a plan to completely rebuild to T3 South concourse, however.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-07-31 12:46:54 and read 3488 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 21):

Thanks for posting the press release. Wonder who will conduct ground handling services...

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-07-31 12:59:33 and read 3483 times.

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 25):
Thanks for posting the press release. Wonder who will conduct ground handling services...

No problem.

They are handled by Serviceair at AZA currently, so maybe they will continue with them at PHX. F9 is going to outsource to Menzies for ground service, so NK could possibly use them as well.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-07-31 15:20:01 and read 3378 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 22):
If AS were to go to T-4 there is no guarantee that they could get more gates when they need them.

"When" they need them? What do you know that the rest of us don't?

bb

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-08-03 17:23:02 and read 2888 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 28):
"When" they need them? What do you know that the rest of us don't?

Conjecture.

If and when there is some pull down in service at PHX by the combined AA/US that would leave open some slots for expansion. AS may be one of the airlines that could look to PHX to expand in. That is all I was stating.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: sacampb
Posted 2013-08-04 12:23:20 and read 2573 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 27):

Servisair just got bought my Swissport so I'm not sure how everything will work out.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-08-04 14:19:41 and read 2459 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 27):
They are handled by Serviceair at AZA currently, so maybe they will continue with them at PHX. F9 is going to outsource to Menzies for ground service, so NK could possibly use them as well.

The contract will most likely stay with Servisair for now.

Quoting sacampb (Reply 30):
Servisair just got bought my Swissport so I'm not sure how everything will work out.

Then Swissport will have monopoly on the airport with ramp service, passenger service, fueling, and cargo.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-04 15:47:59 and read 2467 times.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 17):

Well I'm 6'0" with long "runners" legs as my friends say, and my knees hurt after 1.5 hours on the a319s. For that, I avoid the a320s like the plague, which is getting harder and harder to do.

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: sacampb
Posted 2013-08-04 16:56:57 and read 2457 times.

Quoting Mesaflyguy (Reply 32):

Just become that guy with long legs that puts them diagonally into everyone else's space  

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-04 17:46:46 and read 2451 times.

Quoting sacampb (Reply 33):
Just become that guy with long legs that puts them diagonally into everyone else's space

LOL then I'd kinda be hypocritical whenever I complain about that guy!

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-08-05 10:44:15 and read 2432 times.

Cranky Flier has his take as to why NK moved some 32 miles from AZA to PHX........

http://crankyflier.com/2013/08/05/sp...ows-competitive-is-alive-and-well/

..... and gives economics as the reason for the move......

fares in those markets have climbed significantly over the last four years..... When fares climb like that, it creates a fare canopy that makes it much more attractive for low cost carriers to consider stepping in underneath. I can only assume that Spirit looked at the market, saw relatively high fares compared to what it would charge, and figured it could step in and fill its planes with much lower fares quite profitably.

 

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2013-08-05 17:12:32 and read 2419 times.

While NK has moved from AZA to PHX likely to position itself better on DFW-PHX, I don't think it means NK is abandoning all secondary airports or that ULCCs in general will do so.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 13):
PHL probably isn't safe anymore since NK's started flying there. I think ACY will stay due to the casino contracts, but any further expansion will be from PHL. Of course, they have WN to deal with now.

As NK offered PHL-MYR service, US added daily nonstop service and matched the fare. NK is suspending the PHL-MYR run in the winter or calling it seasonal, while the ACY-MYR service will continue year round. I'm also unaware of any casino contracts subsidizing the NK flights at ACY. The last subsidy was for FL on ACY-ATL and FL used it for 2 daily flights. NK operates ACY-ATL (1x daily) for half of the year, but without any subsidy.

NK is flying the longer routes out of PHL than ACY. Maybe it'll fly PHL-PHX, PHL-DEN and transcon PHL-OAK.

It appears US is being defensive even up against a minor NK at PHL though like it did with a lot larger WN.

[Edited 2013-08-05 17:26:01]

Topic: RE: Spirit Moving Phoenix Ops From AZA To PHX
Username: Mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-05 20:31:55 and read 2408 times.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 36):

You make it sound like the PHL-MYR flights are being made seasonal because they haven't been successful. The flights were always meant to be seasonal since they started in April.

[Edited 2013-08-05 20:32:39]


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/