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Topic: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: airdfw
Posted 2013-08-08 06:33:49 and read 10560 times.

I am sorry if it has been covered before but I did not find any on search.

NPR is reporting Boeing is monitoring 787 while on air to uncover any potential issues. Is this only for 787 or do they did for 777 before? How does the communication work? Satellite?

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/08/209817...-boeing-is-watching-its-every-move

"Boeing Vice President Mike Fleming, is giving a rare tour of the facility. He points to two giant maps showing the location each 787 currently in flight. The maps also show the planes speed and altitude.

But there is much more. Boeing has delivered about 70 Dreamliners so far. Equipped with highly sophisticated on-board monitoring systems, the planes send back massive amounts of information while in the air. Computer software sifts thru the data and anomalies or potential problems pop up in yellow or red on giant computer screens."

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: jonathan-l
Posted 2013-08-08 06:36:11 and read 10564 times.

Is this the equivalent of what Airbus has with Airman?

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-08-08 07:11:41 and read 10318 times.

It's like having real-time black box data! It seems like airlines could benefit from this type of service by using the system across their fleets.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-08 07:21:34 and read 10222 times.

I'm all in favor of this. The ground systems could alert the plane if it detects any issues or potential stalling.

As long as the government doesn't intrude Boeing and use it as a surveillance tool against foreign flag carriers (or worse, 787s for foreign heads of state)

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-08-08 08:08:54 and read 9899 times.

Airlines have been able to monitor their aircrafts in real time for years through data sent by the maintenance computer through ACARS.

The 787, I'm guessing, takes it to the next level with a lot more data being gathered from many more systems than its predecessors, and that data is routed to Boeing as well as the airline.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: flyglobal
Posted 2013-08-08 08:20:02 and read 9828 times.

Just for comparison with car industrie: since a few years, we are monitoring our test cars (e.g. monitoring in US or Europe while the car e.g. makes in country validation in India, or is driven through the death valley).

Two levels of data transmission here:
Level one is online - a number of key measurements - some 50 measurements online with a certain sample rate).
Level 2 is after each test day - a full dataset with some 100 monitoring data in a higher density is transmitted via WLAN/ LAN/ Datafile upload.

The 1 is for quick analysis and general updates, the level 2 is for specific driving situation updates and software behave.

In the future, almost all vehicles will have internet connection and can be potentially monitored.
The plan is in a good sense - improve service support and assistamce, as well as any emergeny support.

So far the NSA didn't request a datalink by the way.   (to my knowledge)

regards

Flyglobal

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: zeke
Posted 2013-08-08 08:24:51 and read 9747 times.

Been discussed before a little Boeing AHM? (by Kun Apr 25 2010 in Tech Ops)

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: PW100
Posted 2013-08-08 10:33:13 and read 9298 times.

Quoting airdfw (Thread starter):
"Boeing Vice President Mike Fleming, is giving a rare tour of the facility. He points to two giant maps showing the location each 787 currently in flight. The maps also show the planes speed and altitude.

I'm sure you will find this technology also with many A.nutters . . .  

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-08-08 11:20:03 and read 9104 times.

Title and post confusing. "On Air" refers to tv/radio and then you mention NPR.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: LONGisland89
Posted 2013-08-08 11:29:01 and read 9053 times.

Can the QAR transmit data via the ACARS or does that have to be physically removed from the aircraft?

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-08 15:19:36 and read 8420 times.

I flew my first 777 with AA on MIA-DFW years ago and was fortunate to be sitting next to an RJ pilot who was based at DFW. He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!

I imagine this capability is not built into the older Boeings (744 / 757 / 767) though it might be in the 737NGs.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: airbuseric
Posted 2013-08-08 15:38:59 and read 8116 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
I flew my first 777 with AA on MIA-DFW years ago and was fortunate to be sitting next to an RJ pilot who was based at DFW. He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!

True, the airline I worked for used the same data to find possible errors, and replacement parts were even ordered or put on standby so maintenance staff could quickly replace the particular part immediately after landing so keep turnaround times within the time limit.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: georgiaame
Posted 2013-08-08 15:39:41 and read 8115 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 3):
As long as the government doesn't intrude Boeing and use it as a surveillance tool against foreign flag carriers (or worse, 787s for foreign heads of state)

Now why should we even suspect such a nefarious plot isn't already occurring? On a massive scale? Opps, looks like I just bought a one way ticket onto the secret no fly list...

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: dergay
Posted 2013-08-08 15:45:18 and read 8039 times.

Quoting airdfw (Thread starter):

NPR is reporting Boeing is monitoring 787 while on air to uncover any potential issues. Is this only for 787 or do they did for 777 before? How does the communication work? Satellite?

Hope the battery works in the comms pack.!      

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: flyingcello
Posted 2013-08-08 15:55:50 and read 7900 times.

Rolls Royce have a similar facility for monitoring all their engines in real time. They have 'as built' records of each engine, and use the real time data to identify faults or abnormalities mid-air. Using the 'as built' database, they can also dispatch components to the aircraft destination to address problems. All very impressive...

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: sprout5199
Posted 2013-08-08 16:23:51 and read 7608 times.

Didn't AF 447 transmit a lot of data before/during the loss of control?

I really think this is not a news item, as it has been happening for a LOOOng time.

Dan in Jupiter

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-08 16:50:19 and read 7292 times.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 15):
I really think this is not a news item, as it has been happening for a LOOOng time.

Ah, but now that our geniuses in the U.S. media have found out about it - and they found out about it regarding the 787 - it's a "the 787 is so dangerous we need to monitor it every second from the ground" kind of story. But yes, if the "journalists" had bothered to educate themselves about the subject, they would have learned that this is nothing new.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: flylku
Posted 2013-08-08 18:24:18 and read 6500 times.

In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-08 18:40:52 and read 6337 times.

Quoting flylku (Reply 17):
In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.

Yes, I would like some more "inside information" from those in the know. But, in this case, the inbound flight crew could have just used the radio to inform the maintenance folk.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: zkojq
Posted 2013-08-08 19:40:42 and read 5866 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!
Quoting flyingcello (Reply 14):
Rolls Royce have a similar facility for monitoring all their engines in real time. They have 'as built' records of each engine, and use the real time data to identify faults or abnormalities mid-air. Using the 'as built' database, they can also dispatch components to the aircraft destination to address problems. All very impressive...

I've been told about this with Air New Zealand's 777-200s. Particularly with regards to engine vibrations, its apparently reasonably common for the people in maintenance operations to become aware of an issue before the flightcrew. Very clever tech.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: MX757
Posted 2013-08-08 20:31:04 and read 5477 times.

Quoting flylku (Reply 17):
In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.


The sUA fleet have electronic logbooks. The pilots type the discrepancy on the ACARS touch screen and then send it via VHF data link to the sUA maintenance computer network UNIMATIC.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: FI642
Posted 2013-08-08 20:49:00 and read 5306 times.

SR (prior to their demise) wrote an article for ATW detailing how they monitored their MD-11 Fleet down
to items like crews "using too much reverse thrust upon landing." A little too much Big Brother for me.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: nighthawk
Posted 2013-08-09 00:51:48 and read 3903 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):

Airlines have been able to monitor their aircrafts in real time for years through data sent by the maintenance computer through ACARS.

The 787, I'm guessing, takes it to the next level with a lot more data being gathered from many more systems than its predecessors, and that data is routed to Boeing as well as the airline.

I think that's the main difference here. Real time monitoring of flights by the airlines has been going on for years, but now Boeing are also monitoring the data to help identify issues with the 787.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: Schweigend
Posted 2013-08-09 01:19:02 and read 3741 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):
But yes, if the "journalists" had bothered to educate themselves about the subject,

At the moment, "journalism" does seem to be dead, a relic of the 20th century.

All the same, I'm for real-time MX streaming monitoring -- I think it's a great idea. The more info we have to diagnose issues, the better.

Topic: RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air
Username: apfpilot
Posted 2013-08-09 10:20:32 and read 1845 times.

This is becoming more common even in smaller airplanes. EMB has it on the Phenoms: http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...pport/Pages/service-solutions.aspx


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