Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5841913/

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: questions
Posted 2013-08-10 19:41:57 and read 13287 times.

With win NYC wrapping up, the focus on more corporate contracts and JFK Phases II and III on auto-pilot... and the new focus on the West Coast markets and the build up of LAX and SEA well on its way... what will DL's next strategic focus be?

Could it be South Florida? Could a dual hub operation serving Central and South America work, e.g., ATL and FLL?

Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-10 19:47:29 and read 13290 times.

I think they're next strategic move will be focusing on fleet replacement and getting used to their new toys. Plus, you have to look at the amount of slack they have in their current fleet. With all these new focuses on the West Coast and New York, plus general expansion of existing hubs, how much room will they have in the fleet to start adding more and more routes?

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-08-10 20:03:06 and read 13181 times.

I don't think they'll ever be "done" but will always continue to build brand and all, but I see where you are going. I think DL going forward is gonna work on LHR, and I think eventually their Asian ops need to be looked at--will they continue the NRT hub, try and build up HND (fat chance,) overfly Japan, JV with KE? Also, I think DL needs to start looking south to Latin America and how they can strengthen themselves down there. AA and to a lesser extend UA are doing a lot better. DL isn't doing poorly or anything, but there is much room for improvement

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: questions
Posted 2013-08-10 20:07:02 and read 13157 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
AA and to a lesser extend UA are doing a lot better.

Do you mean doing a lot better in LATAM?

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: g500
Posted 2013-08-10 20:09:46 and read 13144 times.

Whatever happened to DL's LAX-IAD & LAX-BDL?

Are they still flying those two routes?

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-10 20:41:45 and read 12994 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):

No and no. I don't remember when they ended, but DL hasn't run these routes in a few years.

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: deltadawg
Posted 2013-08-10 20:47:07 and read 12966 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
I think they're next strategic move will be focusing on fleet replacement and getting used to their new toys. Plus, you have to look at the amount of slack they have in their current fleet. With all these new focuses on the West Coast and New York, plus general expansion of existing hubs, how much room will they have in the fleet to start adding more and more routes?

DL is adding more than 300 new pilots IIRC between now and the first of next year. Also, they are bringing 25 or so frames out of the desert to bring back into service. Where these a/c will run is the real guess but from my understanding they will take up reduced frequencies that were dropped several years back but I am sure they will also try new routes such as the SEA-LHR that is coming.

In fact, one has to remember DL had a codeshare agreement with AS and it could have been a ploy to either buy out AS or get the inside skinny on the AS system and routes. In other words look for some SEA implementation and expansion there and in the Northwest

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2013-08-10 20:51:39 and read 12937 times.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
In fact, one has to remember DL had a codeshare agreement with AS and it could have been a ploy to either buy out AS or get the inside skinny on the AS system and routes. In other words look for some SEA implementation and expansion there and in the Northwest

Except that AS and DL aren't allowed to share information that isn't already available to the public anyway so it's highly unlikely that DL is trying to get any inside skinny. They don't get to share information about their expansion plans or any other proprietary marketing information. The codeshare, is what it is. Just a codeshare. Nothing more, nothing less. Delta apparently isn't comfortable with the amount of seats they are able to procure from Alaska so they supplemented it with their own flights. I'm sure more expansion is on the horizon for Delta in the Northwest but I don't think there is going to be any substantial domestic expansion. Even if Delta wanted to, they don't have the room at SEA for it.

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2013-08-10 20:52:36 and read 12925 times.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
what will DL's next strategic focus be?

Could it be South Florida? Could a dual hub operation serving Central and South America work, e.g., ATL and FLL?

Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

I think once they get SEA going like they want it fleet modernization will be next. Now I'm not saying huge orders with deliveries starting Q4 2014. But I think they really have to sit down and look at the aging MD-80 fleet, the 757s/767s/A320 that aren't being replaced by the 739ER, and the 747s. The 747s have gotten the facelift recently, but they are going to need a replacement by the end of the decade. They say the MD-80s are still profitable but if you get another spike in fuel those jets may become red ink quick. The 787s will probably replace some 757/767 capacity, but not enough to completely replace the fleets. I'd be willing to bet a 777X order is coming to grow the long haul fleet, some more 787s, perhaps some A330s (isn't that fleet stretched pretty thin right now?). I think the interesting thing will be what they do with narrowbodies. They have the 717s coming in, but will they order a larger jet such as the 737MAX or the A320NEO? I think it will be interesting to see what Richard Anderson does.

When it comes to routes I think Asia is the next big move. Richard Anderson mentioned wanting the HND slots, but I see DL getting absorbed by the new AA before that happens. I think they are going to have to look at doing more flights avoiding the NRT hub. SEA will probably be their solution, but for that to work they are going to need more flights to SEA. They will have that AS feed but to make a hub like that work I think they need to expand even more. SEA offers connections to all major US airports, but those are all airports you can get one stop service to anywhere anyways. You want to fly to HKG, great. But from my home airport of BDL you need to still make that double connection to get to HKG. Might as well just drive to JFK and get a direct on CX. I know my airport isn't alone. Doing a bunch of flights from the West Coast makes sense since you have to go that way. But there are still a ton of airports east of the Mississippi where it makes more sense to just connect in NRT anyways.
Pat

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: deltadawg
Posted 2013-08-10 20:59:12 and read 12888 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 8):
I think the interesting thing will be what they do with narrowbodies. They have the 717s coming in, but will they order a larger jet such as the 737MAX or the A320NEO? I think it will be interesting to see what Richard Anderson does

Good point. Its mere speculation on my part but I still believe that if BBD expands the C Series offering with a CS500 capable of seating 160-165 passengers then you could be looking at a near perfect replacement for the MD80/90's and could also replace some of the aging 320's and 738's. I think this type of replacement is probably ten years out though at this time.

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-08-10 21:07:51 and read 12860 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
Do you mean doing a lot better in LATAM?

Yeah. Actually, IIRC, Latin America was Delta's weakest (vs Pacific and Atlantic.) They are a distant 3 from AA and UA, right? AA at least. I'm not under the impression that a carrier has to be #1 everywhere, but I think it's an area they can improve in, even if they never become #1 or #2

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-10 22:22:28 and read 12680 times.

Speaking of hubs, didn't DL want to buy AA's MIA hub?

-Miami   

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-08-10 22:34:32 and read 12645 times.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
In fact, one has to remember DL had a codeshare agreement with AS and it could have been a ploy to either buy out AS or get the inside skinny on the AS system and routes. In other words look for some SEA implementation and expansion there and in the Northwest

It took 6 replies before someone brought up a DL-AS merger. That's got to be the longest it has taken in recent memory!  

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2013-08-10 22:41:40 and read 12620 times.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
With win NYC wrapping up

What? win NYC is wrapping up? That's quite premature isn't it?

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-08-10 23:03:17 and read 12578 times.

I can't see DL finishing NYC just yet, I don't believe they are too far ahead of UA, if at all. The NYC market will honestly never be "done" because it is always evolving, it demands the best prouduct, best service, and the best time schedule. Every carrier has work to be done in the NYC market, it just so happens DL is further ahead of the rest. This also goes for LAX, but I believe they have more work to be done there.

Could DL turn something out of Florida? Probably, I just don't see how a tourism driven state will suit what DL is going for. Especially since AA has MIA under a lock and key. FLL's yields are probably in the toliet with NK having a large ammount of operations there, and JB doesn't help much either. TPA wouldn't be an adequate to suit as a hub, it is a lovely city but I don't believe it has enough business/local demand to support something that ATL can't. As for MCO, DL has a nice ammount of operations there. Could it support some 757 flying to South America? Possibly, but with the large ammount of Latin/South American carriers already there, it would be a fight.

As for later expansion, I see it being primarly ATL based to Latin and South America. I believe they will try to emulate what AA has going on in MIA. But of course they won't be able to do that, since the local market of MIA is so much larger then ATL.

I believe DL is pretty well situated for the next couple of years, the merger worked pretty well. UA still has a lot of catching up to do, and as for AA/US...I hope that the best.

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Alsatian
Posted 2013-08-11 00:42:41 and read 12430 times.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

Texas ? Right, AA and UA fortresses but just as LAX is. NYC - DTW - MSP - ATL - SLC - SEA - LAX : if an economical US major area is "missing" I would say Texas and South Florida indeed. I think that it would make sense especially with the MEM de-hubbing.
IAH and DFW are connected with LGA since about one year, I could see DL also launching direct services to SEA and LAX (as discussed a week ago) and some other cities ( BOS - PHL - SFO - ORD... ). Moreover the DL/VS partnership allows to imagine now a direct access to LHR.

Just some thoughts

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-11 08:03:10 and read 12064 times.

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):

I see your logic, but neither AA or US are fortressed at LAX. A fortress hub is when one airline controls over 70% of operations at a hub. Neihter of them are at that level at LAX. I could possibly see LAX-IAH eventually on DL, but that's about it for DFW and IAH.

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-08-11 08:20:23 and read 12018 times.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

BOM to BKK....JFK to HKG...ACC to NBO Competition is there and they're long shots, but it's what I want. As for LATAM...what's wrong with TPA being a DL hub? Modern terminal with easy access. A bonus is close enough proximity to Disney and some great beaches nearby. Florida's Atlantic coast is overrated. The Gulf coast is where it's at! Nicer sunsets and warmer water!

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: dtwlax
Posted 2013-08-11 08:30:08 and read 11972 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
BOM to BKK...

Why will DL want to fly BOM to BKK?
On the other hand, if DL were to start NRT-BOM, they could have a round-the-world routing; something like LAX-NRT-BOM-AMS-DTW-LAX.

Topic: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: srbmod
Posted 2013-08-11 08:45:08 and read 11930 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 8):
The 787s will probably replace some 757/767 capacity, but not enough to completely replace the fleets. I'd be willing to bet a 777X order is coming to grow the long haul fleet, some more 787s, perhaps some A330s (isn't that fleet stretched pretty thin right now?). I think the interesting thing will be what they do with narrowbodies. They have the 717s coming in, but will they order a larger jet such as the 737MAX or the A320NEO?

Delta's deferred the 787s until 2020, so you really cannot factor them into the equation short term. The 717s are being brought in order to phase out more smaller regional jets and replace them on some routes with two class CRJ-700s/E-170/175s. The oldest 738s in Delta's fleet were delivered in 1998 and nearly all of the fleet was delivered between 1998-2002 (Two were delivered in 2010.) and will be part of the DL fleet for easily another 10-15 years if not longer. Delta will likely stay with a mix of Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies when they move forward on fleet replacement. The same will be true when it comes to their widebody fleet. Considering the teething problems with the 787, Delta may opt to convert that order to 777s. With the 737MAX and A320NEO having such a backlog of orders, Delta could possibly acquire second hand 737NGs and A319/320/321s as airlines retire them in favor of the MAX and NEO in addition to ordering older versions still currently in production.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: questions
Posted 2013-08-11 09:18:42 and read 11843 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 13):
What? win NYC is wrapping up? That's quite premature isn't it?
Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):

I can't see DL finishing NYC just yet

My quote was not in full context nor was it clearly articulated by me.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
With win NYC wrapping up, the focus on more corporate contracts and JFK Phases II and III on auto-pilot...

Of course there is still work to be done however big chunks of work have been completed including those less apparent to a.netters and not in the public view. Completing JFK phases II and III and continued focus on gaining more corporate contracts for greater share are work still in progress.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
As for later expansion, I see it being primarly ATL based to Latin and South America. I believe they will try to emulate what AA has going on in MIA. But of course they won't be able to do that, since the local market of MIA is so much larger then ATL.

So why wouldn'tDL try some sort of dual hub approach for Central and South America using South Florida? Whenever this comes up people immediately go to low yields, NK out of FLL, and VFR. There's an extremely large Hispanic and Latin local market in South Florida, it's one of the largest growing demographics in the US, there is tremendous economic growth potential in LATAM, and there is a ton of money (individuals and corporations) in South Florida. Flying from LATAM to South Florida via ATL is akin to London to NYC via LGW-DTW-LGA.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-08-11 09:19:24 and read 11844 times.

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):
Texas ? Right, AA and UA fortresses but just as LAX is. NYC - DTW - MSP - ATL - SLC - SEA - LAX : if an economical US major area is "missing" I would say Texas and South Florida indeed. I think that it would make sense especially with the MEM de-hubbing.

Texas is a problem not much changed by the MEM dehubbing (the volume of TX flights from MEM wasn't large). It is a problem without a Delta solution because with the strengths of UA, AA and WN in and from TX, there really isn't room for a 4th carrier beyond frequent flights to DL hubs.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-08-11 10:16:20 and read 11399 times.

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 18):
they could have a round-the-world routing

That was the idea. I was just using the two closest unconnected points, but using NRT-BOM (or DEL via VS) works just as well.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-08-11 10:29:36 and read 11298 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 20):
So why wouldn'tDL try some sort of dual hub approach for Central and South America using South Florida? Whenever this comes up people immediately go to low yields, NK out of FLL, and VFR. There's an extremely large Hispanic and Latin local market in South Florida, it's one of the largest growing demographics in the US, there is tremendous economic growth potential in LATAM, and there is a ton of money (individuals and corporations) in South Florida. Flying from LATAM to South Florida via ATL is akin to London to NYC via LGW-DTW-LGA.

That is easier said then done though. AA has MIA locked up and is only going to become a stronger competitor in the coming years, not a weaker one. FLL has issues with space and yields. It is not just NK, remember that B6 has big plans for expansion at FLL.

Delta also has issues because of their lack of a strong South American partner. They only have Gol (who are not that large outside of Brazil and are primarily an LCC) and AR (who are just a mess). AA has the South American powerhouse LATAM while UA has Avianca and Copa (which is part of the reason they are fairly strong in Central America).

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-08-11 10:33:00 and read 11280 times.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
With win NYC wrapping up, the focus on more corporate contracts and JFK Phases II and III on auto-pilot... and the new focus on the West Coast markets and the build up of LAX and SEA well on its way... what will DL's next strategic focus be?

If win NYC is on autopilot...they will lose NYC.

LAX is still on swampy ground...and they just started in Seattle.

Maybe they should continue doing what they're doing.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: quickmover
Posted 2013-08-11 10:57:20 and read 11536 times.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
Also, they are bringing 25 or so frames out of the desert to bring back into service.

What's coming out of the desert?

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: laca773
Posted 2013-08-11 11:09:12 and read 11539 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
Delta's deferred the 787s until 2020, so you really cannot factor them into the equation short term. The 717s are being brought in order to phase out more smaller regional jets and replace them on some routes with two class CRJ-700s/E-170/175s. The oldest 738s in Delta's fleet were delivered in 1998 and nearly all of the fleet was delivered between 1998-2002 (Two were delivered in 2010.) and will be part of the DL fleet for easily another 10-15 years if not longer. Delta will likely stay with a mix of Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies when they move forward on fleet replacement. The same will be true when it comes to their widebody fleet. Considering the teething problems with the 787, Delta may opt to convert that order to 777s. With the 737MAX and A320NEO having such a backlog of orders, Delta could possibly acquire second hand 737NGs and A319/320/321s as airlines retire them in favor of the MAX and NEO in addition to ordering older versions still currently in production.

I don't think we'll see DL cancel the 787 order. They are deferred until 2020. This gives Boeing more than enough time to work out the issues they have with these birds prior to DL receiving any. Further, the 777 is too much a/c for many routes. A 787 will fit a many of these routes perfectly once they retire start retiring the 76Ws.

I was wondering if we will see LAX-JAX-LAX brought back with a A319?. The 73Hs is too large an a/c for a daily rotation (or 4-5x a week).

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mcogator
Posted 2013-08-11 11:39:46 and read 11688 times.

Selfish wishes:

DL flying their own metal to SEA, making it a double daily.
MCO-SFO coming back.
Mini Latin American hub. We have the O&D, especially to Brazil, Central America, and Puerto Rico. Nobody likes to connect in ATL or DTW when flying to Brazil from MCO. There is the gate space as well, with FL relocating.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-08-11 11:45:33 and read 11614 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
I think eventually their Asian ops need to be looked at--will they continue the NRT hub, try and build up HND (fat chance,) overfly Japan, JV with KE?

  

I think this will - or at least should - be Delta's next major strategic focus. There is work to be done to make Delta's strong Asian franchise viable and competitive going forward, and it begins and ends with locking up Korean and ICN as an alternative to NRT.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Also, I think DL needs to start looking south to Latin America and how they can strengthen themselves down there. AA and to a lesser extend UA are doing a lot better. DL isn't doing poorly or anything, but there is much room for improvement

I question just how much organic growth Delta really has left, at least to South America. I struggle with how much more they can really realistically add, since they really only have two hubs that can plausibly be major South American gateways (ATL and JFK). I think Delta's approach in the last few years - of locking in equity and other partnerships with partners in strategically critical growth markets - has been extremely shrewd. Ensuring Delta has access to Brazil and Mexico is a major plus for Delta, particularly considering how inferior Delta's own network is in those two countries relative to United, and certainly AA.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
As for later expansion, I see it being primarly ATL based to Latin and South America. I believe they will try to emulate what AA has going on in MIA. But of course they won't be able to do that, since the local market of MIA is so much larger then ATL.

  

If I remember the numbers correctly AA post-merger will be operating essentially as much capacity between the U.S. and Latin America (as DOT defines it) as all other U.S. carriers combined. That didn't happen overnight, and it certainly didn't happen on accident - but did happen largely because of MIA. ATL can never be a realistic substitute for MIA for Delta, but then again, neither can any other U.S. hub/gateway. Absent the keys to the kingdom in MIA, Delta's best alternative is probably just to concentrate their efforts on continuing to add more capacity via the primary ATL gateway, plus targeted adds to select Latin America markets from JFK and LAX, where appropriate.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 21):
Texas is a problem not much changed by the MEM dehubbing (the volume of TX flights from MEM wasn't large). It is a problem without a Delta solution because with the strengths of UA, AA and WN in and from TX, there really isn't room for a 4th carrier beyond frequent flights to DL hubs.

  

Delta faces the same intractable challenge in the south-central U.S. (primarily Texas) that AA does in the Rockies and both Delta and AA do up and down the west coast: each region can only support so many hubs, and between the nation's soon-to-be "big 4" (AA, Delta, Southwest and United), all the viable hubs are spoken for - AA has DFW, Southwest has HOU and United has IAH. In the game of musical hubs, Delta was the one left standing without a place to go in Texas. This is certainly an issue, as Texas is not only the nation's second most populous state but also one of its most economically and demographically dynamic. Nonetheless, Delta no doubt can and will make the best of it - as others have mentioned, by serving Texas as extensively as possible from as many hubs as possible.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-08-11 13:51:51 and read 10796 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 20):
So why wouldn'tDL try some sort of dual hub approach for Central and South America using South Florida? Whenever this comes up people immediately go to low yields, NK out of FLL, and VFR. There's an extremely large Hispanic and Latin local market in South Florida, it's one of the largest growing demographics in the US, there is tremendous economic growth potential in LATAM, and there is a ton of money (individuals and corporations) in South Florida. Flying from LATAM to South Florida via ATL is akin to London to NYC via LGW-DTW-LGA.

While South Florida is a huge market, for Delta to set up a hub in South Florida just for the South Florida market would be a bit stupid. Like Polot said, AA has South Florida locked up. There isn't any where they could grow that would give DL the yields/demand that would justify setting up a brand new hub.

Tampa would be the most viable option in terms of infrastructure. But the local demand from Tampa Bay would be weak, since only about 17% of the population in Tampa is Latino or Hispanic Source

In the future (fifteen or twenty years) there may be demand for a latin/south american hub in other parts of Florida, according to Nielsen, Orlando's latino/hispanic population has grown 125.1 per cent since 2000, as for Tampa they stand at 112.2 per cent. But at the same time, Atlanta's latino/hispanic population has grown more than both of those cities. So DL may have more success trying to turn ATL into a South American hub instead of something in South Florida. Nielsen

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mpdpilot
Posted 2013-08-11 14:11:04 and read 10644 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 28):
Delta faces the same intractable challenge in the south-central U.S. (primarily Texas) that AA does in the Rockies and both Delta and AA do up and down the west coast: each region can only support so many hubs, and between the nation's soon-to-be "big 4" (AA, Delta, Southwest and United), all the viable hubs are spoken for - AA has DFW, Southwest has HOU and United has IAH. In the game of musical hubs, Delta was the one left standing without a place to go in Texas. This is certainly an issue, as Texas is not only the nation's second most populous state but also one of its most economically and demographically dynamic. Nonetheless, Delta no doubt can and will make the best of it - as others have mentioned, by serving Texas as extensively as possible from as many hubs as possible.

What about a small hub operation in San Antonio? The city is larger than both CVG and MKE and both airports have had or do have small hubs.

And as difficult as it might be I feel like Delta needs to be in the LAX-DFW market.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: B757forever
Posted 2013-08-11 14:12:37 and read 10617 times.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
Also, they are bringing 25 or so frames out of the desert to bring back into service.

This is news to me. There was a handful of short term parked aircraft returning but I have heard nothing about 25 aircraft being brought back to active status. Interesting.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-08-11 14:18:17 and read 10602 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 30):
What about a small hub operation in San Antonio? The city is larger than both CVG and MKE and both airports have had or do have small hubs.

SAT cannot effectively function as a major airline hub. The market isn't large enough to begin with, plus the region's traffic is split with AUS which is only an hour up 35. The geography isn't ideal, either.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 30):
And as difficult as it might be I feel like Delta needs to be in the LAX-DFW market.

They may decide as much. The LAX-DFW market is obviously enormous, and currently being split three ways between the dominant force in the market, AA, plus Virgin and a relatively small United presence.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-08-11 14:44:32 and read 10392 times.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Could it be South Florida? Could a dual hub operation serving Central and South America work, e.g., ATL and FLL?

If they want LatAm from S. FLa....its MIA or bust....aside from PTY that is where all of latinAm shops and the yields are great. I say we will see DL try something out of MIA within 4 years.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
but I see where you are going. I think DL going forward is gonna work on LHR

that too with VS

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
Especially since AA has MIA under a lock and key.

Nothing is ever under lock and key....some have stronger doors....but nothing is ever sealed tight.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
.what's wrong with TPA being a DL hub?

much like FLL, if you are going to get into a fight over LatAm....might as well go where the yields are ....and that is MIA MIA MIA

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mpdpilot
Posted 2013-08-11 14:44:55 and read 10388 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 32):
SAT cannot effectively function as a major airline hub. The market isn't large enough to begin with, plus the region's traffic is split with AUS which is only an hour up 35. The geography isn't ideal, either.

Yeah, but MKE and CVG suffer the same issues. and CVG is even a small hub for Delta.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-08-11 14:50:40 and read 10345 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 34):
Yeah, but MKE and CVG suffer the same issues.

Right ... and we see what has happened to the hubs at those two airports in the last decade. The economic reality dictates that markets need to have a certain minimum level of local demand in order to justify a hub from a major network airline. And SAT is nowhere near that minimum threshold. The market is way to small.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: deltadawg
Posted 2013-08-11 15:19:28 and read 10192 times.

Delta Airlines Hiring Pilots

00June 12, 2010 in Blog



Delta Airlines, the world's largest airline, will be hiring many new pilots this year. It is also planning on bringing back on-line aircraft that was taken out of service and parked in the California desert the last few years due to recession cuts in capacity.

Delta plans to hire 300 new pilots — even more than the 240 pilots it had previously announced it would hire.

The company also plans to invest about USD $1 billion the next few years to improve the efficiency of its fleet of aircraft. Delta provides scheduled air transportation for passengers and cargo throughout the U.S. and also around the world. Its route network is centered on the hub system that it operates at many airports worldwide: Atlanta, Cincinnati, Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis, New York, Salt Lake City, Paris Charles de Gaulle, Amsterdam and Tokyo Narita.

Delta merged with Norwest Airlines the end of last year.

If you are interested in learning to fly to work as a pilot for one of the world's big airlines — or the thousands of er airlines — contact Phoenix East Aviation for information on training. www.pea.com. An admissions officer will provide all the details you need.


I also recall another thread or article that specifically says 20-25 frames coming out of the desert. I will keep looking for it.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-08-11 15:24:02 and read 10124 times.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
I also recall another thread or article that specifically says 20-25 frames coming out of the desert. I will keep looking for it.

I don't want this thread to go ff topic but I'm remembering it the reverse of you: the upcoming streams of 739ERs and 717s are going to put some 757s and A320s into desert storage.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-08-11 15:24:02 and read 10118 times.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):

That blog post is over 3 years old now...

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-08-11 15:29:55 and read 10065 times.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
June 12, 2010
Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
Delta Airlines, the world's largest airline
Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
Delta merged with Norwest Airlines the end of last year.

LOL

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-08-11 15:38:34 and read 10061 times.

Why would DL want to grow in Florida? They tried that... MCO.... They are doing pretty well now with MCO,FLL,TPA,MIA and everywhere else they fly within the state. Besides why do they need latin american routes out of Florida when you got ATL... Just my   

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: tjh8402
Posted 2013-08-11 15:44:51 and read 9987 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
As for MCO, DL has a nice ammount of operations there. Could it support some 757 flying to South America? Possibly, but with the large ammount of Latin/South American carriers already there, it would be a fight.

MCO currently only has non stop service to maybe 4 S American airports, and only one is by a S Am carrier (Tam). Although largely leisure, there is a huge amount of traffic between South American and Orlando. I should add that there's a good amount of wealthier people on that route. My fire department covers a lot of the resort areas in Orlando, and when I'm taking patient information, I see a lot of people from South America, and plenty of them are staying in the nicer resorts as well so they are definitely spending some good $ on their trips.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: 727LOVER
Posted 2013-08-11 16:37:27 and read 9714 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
Florida's Atlantic coast is overrated. The Gulf coast is where it's at! Nicer sunsets and warmer water!

....and more oil residue  
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 33):
much like FLL, if you are going to get into a fight over LatAm....might as well go where the yields are ....and that is MIA MIA MIA
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 40):
Besides why do they need latin american routes out of Florida when you got ATL...

I am assuming MIA yields are better than ATL. What is the % of O&D traffic ATL-LATAM vs MIA-LATAM?

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: uberflieger
Posted 2013-08-11 16:46:01 and read 9718 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 11):

'Speaking of hubs, didn't DL want to buy AA's MIA hub?'

no dude, the mighty Delta was gonna buy a l l of AA and then piece meal it off and only keep what they really need for world supremecy: MIA & DFW

a little reality check for all the fan boys... in just a few weeks Delta is gonna be moving down a notch to the place they historically always were in US commercial aviation - number 3 behind American & United   

[Edited 2013-08-11 16:49:21]

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mcogator
Posted 2013-08-11 17:03:51 and read 9541 times.

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 41):
MCO currently only has non stop service to maybe 4 S American airports, and only one is by a S Am carrier (Tam).

I got this from WIKI. Some of the flights are seasonal, but it seems like the O&D is there. This is compared to TPA, which only has 2-3 destinations total in Central America and the Caribbean. Zero flights to South America. If B6 can make a micro-hub to Central and South America in MCO work, I don't see why DL can't.

South America
AV to BOG
9H to CUR
G3 to SDQ & GRU
B6 to BOG
LA to SCL
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ to GRU

Central America & Caribbean
AM to MEX
FL to AUA,MBJ
TA to SAL,GUA
UP to NAS
BW to KIN,POS
CM to PTY
DL to CUN
B6 to BQN,CUN,MBJ,NAS,PSE,SJO,SJU,SDQ
NK to SJU
Y4 to MEX

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: questions
Posted 2013-08-11 17:24:51 and read 9411 times.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
no dude, the mighty Delta was gonna buy a l l of AA and then piece meal it off and only keep what they really need for world supremecy: MIA & DFW

You forgot JFK T8.  
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
a little reality check for all the fan boys... in just a few weeks Delta is gonna be moving down a notch to the place they historically always were in US commercial aviation - number 3 behind American & United

Hence the discussion objective for this thread. What is DL's growth strategy now that Win New York, while not declarable, is chugging along and "Go West Young Man", aka, LAX/SEA, is well under way? If those two plus fleet renewal, as some have speculated, is it Delta will remain #3 for a long time.

But I guess we also have to consider the metrics. Could DL be #3 in terms of most "size" metrics but be #1 from a financial performance perspective? And how long would that last if DL is missing out on critical industry growth areas?

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-08-11 17:31:09 and read 9374 times.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
a little reality check for all the fan boys...

to be fair, DL buying everything in sight was nothing more than an a.net rumor. I'm sure DL looked into all the options, including buying AA, but it's not like they desparately pursued it. They looked at everything as any good carrier should. Don't take this site too seriously

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DL747400
Posted 2013-08-11 17:31:31 and read 9417 times.

If you look at DL's 2013 Flight Plan and then look at what the DL has done so far this year within that context, it is not a stretch to imagine that DL will use 2014 to do the following:

- continue to solidify NYC
- continue to grow at SEA and LAX
- continue to evolve the transpacific
- More more NRT overflights where it makes economic sense to do so
- get the DL/VS transatlantic JV running at full steam for its first summer season with full ATI
- possibility for another LHR route announcement between now and then
- VS will be folded into the existing JV with AF/KL/AZ
- SkyTeam extends a formal membership invitation VS
- VS announces their intent to join SkyTeam shortly thereafter
- movement on a transpacific JV with KE to supplement (not replace) NRT

My opinions of course, but this is what I see happening.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-08-11 17:32:27 and read 9355 times.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 44):
South America
AV to BOG
9H to CUR
G3 to SDQ & GRU
B6 to BOG
LA to SCL
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ to GRU

Central America & Caribbean
AM to MEX
FL to AUA,MBJ
TA to SAL,GUA
UP to NAS
BW to KIN,POS
CM to PTY
DL to CUN
B6 to BQN,CUN,MBJ,NAS,PSE,SJO,SJU,SDQ
NK to SJU
Y4 to MEX

except for UP to NAS. this is all leisure and not great yielding. No point in building a hub for that.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: uberflieger
Posted 2013-08-11 17:32:35 and read 9386 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 45):

You forgot JFK T8

ooops, how could I forget  

I am a B I G fan of Delta and their leadership over the last few years - a good match is one of equals   

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: tjh8402
Posted 2013-08-11 17:55:17 and read 9201 times.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 44):

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 41):
MCO currently only has non stop service to maybe 4 S American airports, and only one is by a S Am carrier (Tam).

I got this from WIKI. Some of the flights are seasonal, but it seems like the O&D is there. This is compared to TPA, which only has 2-3 destinations total in Central America and the Caribbean. Zero flights to South America. If B6 can make a micro-hub to Central and South America in MCO work, I don't see why DL can't.

South America
AV to BOG
9H to CUR
G3 to SDQ & GRU
B6 to BOG
LA to SCL
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ to GRU

Central America & Caribbean
AM to MEX
FL to AUA,MBJ
TA to SAL,GUA
UP to NAS
BW to KIN,POS
CM to PTY
DL to CUN
B6 to BQN,CUN,MBJ,NAS,PSE,SJO,SJU,SDQ
NK to SJU
Y4 to MEX

Central America and the Caribbean has a lot of coverage. I was looking specifically at South America. If you go to GOAA's website, looking at their route map, the only currently listed non stop flights to continental South America are GRU on TAM and BOG on AV and B6. FL goes to AUA, Dutch Antilles Express goes to CUR, and Caribbean Airlines goes to POS if you want to also consider that South America.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-11 20:05:32 and read 8635 times.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 44):
LA to SCL

LAN runs some one-off flights to Orlando for peak holidays via Miami, but doesn't regularly service MCO.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-12 05:57:05 and read 8219 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
I can't see DL finishing NYC just yet, I don't believe they are too far ahead of UA, if at all.



UA handles more passengers from EWR than DL does from EWR, JFK and LGA combined.

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 47):
More more NRT overflights where it makes economic sense to do so
Quoting DL747400 (Reply 47):
continue to evolve the transpacific



Their biggest obstacle is that they don't have the right aircraft presently to do this, nor do they have any immediate orders that will make a difference before 2020.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DL747400
Posted 2013-08-12 06:01:23 and read 8195 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 52):
Their biggest obstacle is that they don't have the right aircraft presently to do this, nor do they have any immediate orders that will make a difference before 2020.

Stay tuned for orders which will bring new widebodies into the fleet much sooner than you describe.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: RL757PVD
Posted 2013-08-12 06:39:16 and read 8056 times.

I would expect one of the upcoming strategies will involve more connecting the dots between large markets, and beefing up key cities to focus city type levels.

One of the key disadvantages DL has is instead of cities like Chicago and Dallas, they have Detroit and Minneapolis.

My guess is you will see places like ORD elevated to focus city type levels of service (its already half way there) and cities like Dallas, Houston, San Francisco and Washington DC gaining point to point service to other large markets, esp those where they already have a notable presence, i e LAX, SEA and eventually BOS and ORD.

Perhaps employ the same strategy on the regional level by continuing to cultivate places like IND RDU, MCI, STL and BNA with Delta connection point to point to key markets.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-08-12 06:49:31 and read 8020 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 13):
What? win NYC is wrapping up? That's quite premature isn't it?

Exactly. NYC isn't exactly wrapping up.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: vin2basketball
Posted 2013-08-12 08:04:56 and read 7874 times.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
'Speaking of hubs, didn't DL want to buy AA's MIA hub?'

no dude, the mighty Delta was gonna buy a l l of AA and then piece meal it off and only keep what they really need for world supremecy: MIA & DFW

a little reality check for all the fan boys... in just a few weeks Delta is gonna be moving down a notch to the place they historically always were in US commercial aviation - number 3 behind American & United   


Yet they are #1 in both nominal profits and profit margin amongst the three - and that's all that matters

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 54):
One of the key disadvantages DL has is instead of cities like Chicago and Dallas, they have Detroit and Minneapolis.

My guess is you will see places like ORD elevated to focus city type levels of service (its already half way there) and cities like Dallas, Houston, San Francisco and Washington DC gaining point to point service to other large markets, esp those where they already have a notable presence, i e LAX, SEA and eventually BOS and ORD.

Perhaps employ the same strategy on the regional level by continuing to cultivate places like IND RDU, MCI, STL and BNA with Delta connection point to point to key markets.

DTW and MSP are better yielding (and probably more profitable) for DL than ORD is for AA/UA... ORD with more P2P is not necessarily beyond the realm of possibility, BOS is a better bet, more P2P out of MCO *could* work, same with FLL

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: cokepopper
Posted 2013-08-12 08:12:45 and read 7864 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 52):
Their biggest obstacle is that they don't have the right aircraft presently to do this, nor do they have any immediate orders that will make a difference before 2020.

so the 100 739's and the 88 717's aren't coming on line in the couple of years?

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-12 08:18:11 and read 7828 times.

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 57):
so the 100 739's and the 88 717's aren't coming on line in the couple of years?

Please re-read my post, and what I was responding to:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 52):
Quoting DL747400 (Reply 47):
More more NRT overflights where it makes economic sense to do so
Quoting DL747400 (Reply 47):
continue to evolve the transpacific



Their biggest obstacle is that they don't have the right aircraft presently to do this, nor do they have any immediate orders that will make a difference before 2020.

NRT overflights and evolve the transpacific have nothing to do with a 717 or 739.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: papatango
Posted 2013-08-12 12:28:43 and read 7472 times.

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 53):

Would you care to elaborate?

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-08-12 14:19:46 and read 7256 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 45):
But I guess we also have to consider the metrics. Could DL be #3 in terms of most "size" metrics but be #1 from a financial performance perspective? And how long would that last if DL is missing out on critical industry growth areas?

You (and I don't mean one, I mean you specifically) can look at RPM and revenues today and find that DL is not at all far behind UA in these two most common measurements of airline size.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DL747400
Posted 2013-08-12 19:47:52 and read 6935 times.

Quoting papatango (Reply 59):
Would you care to elaborate?

Nope, you can read it when it is announced publicly. There are threads loaded with speculation, including this one:

So What Will The Rumored DLwide-body Order Be? (by DTWPurserBoy Jul 31 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-08-12 20:03:51 and read 6856 times.

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 61):
Nope, you can read it when it is announced publicly. There are threads loaded with speculation, including this one:

Don't say anything. No offense, but there have been plenty of people on this site that have had "inside knowledge" that turned out to be hot air, and all it did was turn the awful rumor mill on this site. I think the only people that really know what DL is gonna order are the people smart enough not to spill the beans on a.net (so I guess technically, you may fit in that category, but who knows.)

I've heard a pretty good rumor involving 744s (won't go any further in the off chance I'm actually right and I get someone in trouble) but I dare not mention it and make anyone here lose their minds and end up being wrong lol

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: B757forever
Posted 2013-08-12 20:33:37 and read 6832 times.

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 61):
Nope, you can read it when it is announced publicly.

DL747400 is right on. A wide body order is imminent.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: surfdog75
Posted 2013-08-12 21:12:37 and read 6754 times.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
a little reality check for all the fan boys... in just a few weeks Delta is gonna be moving down a notch to the place they historically always were in US commercial aviation - number 3 behind American & United

Yep, but American will really be US Airways. Yikes.  

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-08-12 22:23:14 and read 6665 times.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 56):
DTW and MSP are better yielding (and probably more profitable) for DL than ORD is for AA/UA... ORD with more P2P is not necessarily beyond the realm of possibility, BOS is a better bet, more P2P out of MCO *could* work, same with FLL

  

Would it blow people's minds if they learned that ORD, NYC and LAX are probably _not_ among the top 10 most profitable (=highest value) airline markets in the USA...

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-08-12 22:45:10 and read 6601 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
DL's LAX-IAD

IIRC it was never started. It was announced as a daily 738 but never started.

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
LAX-BDL?

cut a while ago. It and FLL/MKE are the only routes cut from LAX post merger.

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):
Texas ? Right,

DFW baby.   
I would love to see a line station and a pilot/FA base. At least get some of the exDallas people to quit telling me "in Dallas we use to do it this way"            

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):

a little reality check for all the fan boys... in just a few weeks Delta is gonna be moving down a notch to the place they historically always were in US commercial aviation - number 3 behind American & United

I keep reading this but i fail to see your point.
Oh maybe they will be #3 but continue to kick American and United's collective asses when it comes to posting profits? see I can play the pissing game too.  
Quoting STT757 (Reply 52):

Their biggest obstacle is that they don't have the right aircraft presently to do this, nor do they have any immediate orders that will make a difference before 2020.

today.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 62):

Don't say anything. No offense, but there have been plenty of people on this site that have had "inside knowledge" that turned out to be hot air, and all it did was turn the awful rumor mill on this site. I think the only people that really know what DL is gonna order are the people smart enough not to spill the beans on a.net (so I guess technically, you may fit in that category, but who knows.)

A widebody order is coming. Along with a small narrowbody order. IIRC the plan is to make a proposal to the BOD in the next few weeks maybe a month.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 62):
've heard a pretty good rumor involving 744s (won't go any further in the off chance I'm actually right and I get someone in trouble) but I dare not mention it and make anyone here lose their minds and end up being wrong lol

not going to happen.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-08-12 22:48:50 and read 6585 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 66):
A widebody order is coming. Along with a small narrowbody order. IIRC the plan is to make a proposal to the BOD in the next few weeks maybe a month.

Yeah I'm sure something is coming. But people that know exactly what raise a red flag, seen a lot of that on this site over the years

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 66):
not going to happen.

I agree but it's not exactly what you think. It's kinda clever. It's not DL buying a bunch of new 744s or anything. But again, I doubt it will happen which is why I don't spread it  

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-08-12 23:01:34 and read 6590 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 67):

I agree but it's not exactly what you think. It's kinda clever. It's not DL buying a bunch of new 744s or anything. But again, I doubt it will happen which is why I don't spread it  

Well they can't buy new 744s.
but the management team has made it fairly clear they won't be adding anything with more than two engines. 744s, 748s and 380s are a very, very, very long shot at Delta.
It'll be 330s and/or 777s
and 32S and/or 737NGs.
no MAX,NEO,787,350,777X or 764s    with this order

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 67):
Yeah I'm sure something is coming. But people that know exactly what raise a red flag, seen a lot of that on this site over the years

Its not like you need a special code word to know. Talk to a Delta employee who...well reads what the company puts out there and they can tell you they have been talking to Airbus and Boeing.

IIRC bloomberg or someone posted it about as soon as it hit the employee site. Amazing how they do that.         

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-08-12 23:06:57 and read 6550 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 68):
Its not like you need a special code word to know. Talk to a Delta employee who...well reads what the company puts out there and they can tell you they have been talking to Airbus and Boeing.

Well duh, it's gonna be Airbus and/or Boeing. I'm talking about specifics (how much of what.) It's really a moot point and shouldn't have been dragged out this far I guess

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-08-13 05:18:22 and read 6359 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 68):
no MAX,NEO,787,350,777X or 764s

Thank god you excluded the 764's

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mcogator
Posted 2013-08-13 06:53:46 and read 6237 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 48):
except for UP to NAS. this is all leisure and not great yielding. No point in building a hub for that.

MCO has roughly the same amount of O&D traffic as MIA & FLL COMBINED. The yield is on the low side, but not as bad as most people make it out to be. Combined with connecting traffic from South and North East, I think an MCO Latin America hub could work.

Top US O&D Airports (by LAXintl Jun 19 2013 in Civil Aviation)#menu27

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 51):
LAN runs some one-off flights to Orlando for peak holidays via Miami, but doesn't regularly service MCO.

It did say "seasonal". I just wasn't sure just how seasonal it was.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 33):
much like FLL, if you are going to get into a fight over LatAm....might as well go where the yields are ....and that is MIA MIA MIA

How much does the AA hub factor into those higher yields? I would say it largely does, just based on the rest of the major airports in Florida.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2013-08-13 09:18:36 and read 6108 times.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

I think DL has some very lofty stratigic objectives to try and take the airline over the next five years.
Mergers? An Acquisition of AS is without question a top priority here..."We are DL, you will be asimalated, resitance is futile "   
Alliance? Extending and integratting VS and quite likely WS into SkyTeam. Even tha latter shouldn't be ruled out so far as a joint venture. WS particularly in the event of an AS acquisition would be a great fit with DL/KL/AF/VS.
Open Skies? Richard Anderson left little doubt DL wants more access to HND, and this leaves the carriers strategy at NRT in doubt.
Latin America? LAX could see an increase in the years ahead for South American service despite greater distances than ATL, JFK or setting up an MIA competator base/hub in FLL.

As for hubs it will be VERY interesting to watch how DL deals with SLC, which is now moving forward with a substantial terminal/concourse redevelopment strategy. While many make a case that SLC is too geographcially important to have go the way of MEM or CVG, an AS acquisition could significantly cut into the seat load DL puts into SLC. One huge factor in favor of SLC is it has a growing air market with regards to O&D, unlike stagnate or contracting numbers in places like STL, PIT, CVG or MEM. Unlike those onetime centers of importance, SLC has the numbers to take on nearby (geographically speaking) competitiors like DEN, PHX or LAS.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: western727
Posted 2013-08-13 12:12:14 and read 5880 times.

Quoting quickmover (Reply 25):
What's coming out of the desert?

Like to "repost" this question by quickmover which remains unanswered. Anyone know?

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: B757forever
Posted 2013-08-13 20:37:04 and read 5597 times.

Other than a handful of short term stored aircraft, I know of nothing that is coming out of the desert. There are however many 757s making that last trip out west.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: questions
Posted 2013-08-13 21:04:22 and read 5559 times.

Quoting B757forever (Reply 74):
There are however many 757s making that last trip out west.

So sad! I love the 757. My favourite aircraft!

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: jetblastdubai
Posted 2013-08-18 13:24:53 and read 4928 times.

Delta lacks the terminal space at LAX to do too much expansion. They've got T5 and part of T6. United, on the other hand has probably 1/3rd more gate space (part of T6, all of T7 and T8) and a lot of it is currently under-used so they could counter and double-down on anything DL plans to do at LAX.

Everyone wants to see their 'favorite' airline expand here and there, fly to XYZ, add a hub at ABC etc. but it's just not realistic. No one is going to expand in a vacuum. If any airline starts to make a move into someone else's 'bread and butter' territory, they'll be a swift response.

After the AA/US merger fiasco of last week, there won't be any more mergers by any of the big carriers in the near or distant future. AS isn't going to be bought by DL or AA. If the AA/US merger falls through, AA won't merge with JetBlue because of the JFK monopoly implications. They're all on their own from here on out.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: luckyone
Posted 2013-08-18 14:04:22 and read 4865 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
Could DL turn something out of Florida? Probably, I just don't see how a tourism driven state will suit what DL is going for. Especially since AA has MIA under a lock and key. FLL's yields are probably in the toliet with NK having a large ammount of operations there, and JB doesn't help much either.

Delta is the Number 2 carrier in South Florida between its operations at MIA and FLL.

Quoting questions (Reply 20):
So why wouldn'tDL try some sort of dual hub approach for Central and South America using South Florida?

The quick answer is American Airlines carriers over 70% of the traffic at MIA.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 52):
UA handles more passengers from EWR than DL does from EWR, JFK and LGA combined.

The difference is not that great, at less than 1,000,000 passengers. For all intents and purposes they are equals in the NYC market.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-08-18 15:24:47 and read 4730 times.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 54):
Perhaps employ the same strategy on the regional level by continuing to cultivate places like IND RDU, MCI, STL and BNA with Delta connection point to point to key markets.

DL claimed they were going to do more of this post-merger. They called the cities you mention "s-curve markets." Outside of IND and RDU, it really hasn't happened. Ultimately, the hubs are a problem with this strategy. Delta can never be my sole carrier of choice if it cannot get me to Chicago and D.C. nonstop.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-19 09:06:15 and read 4071 times.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 77):
The difference is not that great, at less than 1,000,000 passengers. For all intents and purposes they are equals in the NYC market.

That's just EWR, at all three UA has a 4-5 million passenger advantage.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2013-08-19 09:40:04 and read 4002 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 79):
That's just EWR, at all three UA has a 4-5 million passenger advantage.

Most of that advantage comes via connecting passengers. In terms of EWR/JFK/LGA O&D traffic, it is much closer. In 1Q13, DL averaged 21,347 daily passengers from the three airports while UA averaged 22,692. Of course Delta's growth trend is much stronger than UA's so I think you can expect them to be neck and neck for a while.

UA's advantage at this point comes from the fact that its more established, unified hub supports a broader portfolio of long-haul flying than Delta's split operation. This leads to a ASM, and related average fare, advantage. EWR has long supported higher fares, mostly due to CO's stranglehold on slots and gates. That is not likely to change. But we are starting to see pricing power develop at LGA as Delta has achieved some mass. Product and service improvements have helped too.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-08-19 17:29:32 and read 3702 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 80):
EWR has long supported higher fares, mostly due to CO's stranglehold on slots and gates. That is not likely to change. But we are starting to see pricing power develop at LGA as Delta has achieved some mass. Product and service improvements have helped too.

   I don't think the split hub, by itself, will drive much yield or traffic difference for local passengers. Now that DL has improved its JFK facilities, I don't think DL is at a facility-based disadvantage either (and once Terminal 2 is gone, DL may even be at a facility advantage). The yield issue for DL is that LGA is much more substitutable with JFK than EWR is and there's yield pressure at JFK from B6. If I'm coming from, say, the upper east side, I'm not likely to go to EWR to save some money over LGA, but I might go to JFK.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-08-20 16:10:44 and read 3280 times.

I would love to see DL add more flights out of MIA
they could start MIA/SEA for onword connections to Asia and
give AA a run for their money on that route or possibly add another
flight from MIA/LAX have 2 flights daily or start MIA/SLC.

Or they should try adding 1 flight daily to S.America and see
how it does.

I know DL cancelled the MIA/LHR I thought it was doing good
or was it they got bullied out by AA.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: jetblastdubai
Posted 2013-08-21 11:37:54 and read 2933 times.

DL just announced SEA-ICN and SEA-HKG

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...-seattle-seoul-hong-180000169.html

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: msp747
Posted 2013-08-21 15:59:46 and read 2796 times.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 83):
DL just announced SEA-ICN and SEA-HKG

The South Satellite at SEA must be packed to the gills. Haven't flown through there in a few years, but that satellite was already crowded, and that was before the recent surge in new flights by DL and other international carriers

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: laca773
Posted 2013-08-21 16:17:21 and read 2756 times.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 76):
Delta lacks the terminal space at LAX to do too much expansion. They've got T5 and part of T6. United, on the other hand has probably 1/3rd more gate space (part of T6, all of T7 and T8) and a lot of it is currently under-used so they could counter and double-down on anything DL plans to do at LAX.

If anything UA has been slowly cut flights from LAX, not adding. I don't see UA adding anything remarkable in the near future.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-21 17:30:13 and read 2677 times.

UA added a bunch of frequencies to EWR from LAX. UA has 21 daily nonstops from LAX to NY EWR/ JFK. Which is the same number of frequencies AA, B6 and DL offer combined.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-21 17:52:19 and read 2628 times.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 71):
MCO has roughly the same amount of O&D traffic as MIA & FLL COMBINED.

How is that relevant to building a Latin hub? The fact that a bunch of people fly to Disney World doesn't mean MCO is a great Latin hub.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 86):
UA added a bunch of frequencies to EWR from LAX. UA has 21 daily nonstops from LAX to NY EWR/ JFK. Which is the same number of frequencies AA, B6 and DL offer combined.

That still doesn't change the fact it has been very stagnant at LAX over the past few years. Probably not too long until AA overtake UA, even without the now unlikely merger.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: jetblastdubai
Posted 2013-08-22 03:28:15 and read 2405 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 87):
That still doesn't change the fact it has been very stagnant at LAX over the past few years. Probably not too long until AA overtake UA, even without the now unlikely merger.

Do we know that UA has no plans for LAX? They've certainly got the ground facilities to do some expanding and it wouldn't make sense to just sit back and get lapped by the competition.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-08-22 11:32:46 and read 2243 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 87):
That still doesn't change the fact it has been very stagnant at LAX over the past few years. Probably not too long until AA overtake UA, even without the now unlikely merger.

That AA kool aid is powerful stuff 

Look, i like AA and I respect what they have done (esp in latin america) but the furthest thing from AA's mind right now is probably LAX.....they are focussed on getting this merger done.... much as UA and DL were at their merger times.

Sure they will add an odd flight here and there at LAX, but until they know the final post merger structure, it should be pretty much a holding pattern

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-22 12:10:55 and read 2192 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 89):
Sure they will add an odd flight here and there at LAX, but until they know the final post merger structure, it should be pretty much a holding pattern

Next week AA is launching five new routes from LAX; in November a sixth; and a seventh in December.

AA simply can't come to a grinding halt because of the merger. It will continue to do what it feels it needs to do to develop its route network. Quite obviously based on what AA has been doing, this includes expanding upon it's LAX operations.

Going into a holding pattern - at LAX, at MIA, at DFW or anywhere else - is not an option.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 88):
Do we know that UA has no plans for LAX?

No, we don't, but we also have seen them do pretty much nothing at LAX outside of adding a daily CRJ-700 to Wichita. Their "growth" at LAX recently is entirely attributed to merging with CO.

Topic: RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?
Username: jetblastdubai
Posted 2013-08-22 12:15:32 and read 2174 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 90):
adding a daily CRJ-700

It wasn't an E145 so there's hope!


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/