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Topic: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-08-07 22:45:49 and read 36226 times.

According Cathay Pacific social media posting, they will be announcing service to a new US destination next week.

Per the visual hints they provided, the potential candidate cities are: Boston, Miami, Newark or Seattle.

However I think CX IT folks let the hat out of the bag with EWR already being a choice on their website with little company logo appearing next to it. Also CX previously internally has stated they were looking at EWR to supplement their JFK service.

Anyhow, lets wait for the formal announcement !


Twitter post:
https://twitter.com/cathaypacificUS/status/365246772735508483

Story:
http://goo.gl/nMLQC8

=

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-07 23:31:29 and read 36051 times.

Estimated annual Hong Kong-Miami traffic at 144,000 passengers. Florida now has over 265,000 residents of Asian heritage. Asia-Miami O&D passenger traffic at nearly 350,000 annual passengers. Miami offers the best connecting opportunities for the Hong Kong-Latin America/Caribbean travellers now at over 100,000 passengers annually. 

I hope and pray it will be MIA.

-Miami   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: thekennady
Posted 2013-08-07 23:40:53 and read 35943 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):

MIA sounds good but man thats a long flight, you are looking at over 17 hours and connections would be limted to mainly latin America. MIA is far from ideal to fly to asia when connections are availible at ORD, LAX, SFO, EWR, JFK and more.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-08-07 23:41:01 and read 35944 times.

Newark.

With SQ pulling out, CX is logical to go up against UA's hub with a nonstop that connects well to almost everywhere in Asia except Japan, S. Korea and Northern China.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-08-07 23:42:34 and read 35920 times.

Great to see Cathay opening a new route to the U.S.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Also CX previously internally has stated they were looking at EWR to supplement their JFK service.

CX is also opening a cabin crew base in NYC...

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):
I hope and pray it will be MIA.

It would be awesome if CX launched MIA. However, CX may view SQ's exit from EWR as a catalyst to launch the HKG-EWR route.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-07 23:48:26 and read 35842 times.

Why would CX fly to Newark? When they already have flights to JFK. There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL


Quoting thekennady (Reply 2):

Maybe a bit shorter than 17 hours? Miami Heat had a charter from MIA-PVG in about 14 hours. So maybe 15-16 hours??

[Edited 2013-08-07 23:58:08]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-08-07 23:59:45 and read 35726 times.

This is one of the worst kept secrets. It will be Newark.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: vvbkumar
Posted 2013-08-07 23:59:47 and read 35729 times.

I hope it is SEA. On similar lines, any chance of SQ or CX flying to SEA?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: thekennady
Posted 2013-08-08 00:03:08 and read 35680 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):

Ive seen the ORD-HKG route average over 15 hours before, 14.5 or so on HKG-ORD depending on winds. So MIA would be looking in the 17 to 17.5 range, thats a long flight. I wonder how many pax could connect from latin America, and If MIA itself could feel up the front of the plane. Id bet on a MIA-NRT before a MIA-HKG. That Miami heat charter was more than likely not as heavy as a fully loaded 773 with cargo, fuel, and Pax. MIA-HKG is a stretch but would be great to see.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: thekennady
Posted 2013-08-08 00:24:12 and read 35510 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Why would CX fly to Newark? When they already have flights to JFK. There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL

Just like Asking why do LY, LH, FI (soon), LX, KL, AI, Both serve JFK and EWR. NYC is a huge market with the worlds 2nd largest GDP. Its best to provide costumers with more options to fly out of more than one airport to avoid some delays, slot issues, and allows for people who live closer to particular airport to avoid traffic and transportation delays trying to travel on the ground across town to different airports. The NYC-HKG market is clearly there, and with the exit of SQ out of EWR, CX can capitalize on connections and O&D traffic through HKG.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-08-08 00:58:42 and read 35320 times.

I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned, being a major base of its OW alliance partner, AA. Flying to DFW would also plug into AA's network from there to Florida.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: lutfi
Posted 2013-08-08 01:07:38 and read 35252 times.

Almost certainly Newark

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-08-08 01:58:46 and read 35007 times.

Wow, it's rare to see such consensus on A.net! But of course EWR does make the most sense for reasons others have stated.

I think we'll see SEA-HKG soon enough, but on DL, not CX.

BOS doesn't strike me as plausible. Only recently has it had any service to Asia.

MIA is out of the question as a nonstop. At 8990mi it would be the longest scheduled nonstop ever except for SIN-EWR. Only three routes longer than 8600mi have ever been tried: SIN-EWR, SIN-LAX, and BKK-JFK. And all of them have been cancelled. MIA would have to be served via another city like YVR. But I really don't see why CX would have a burning need to serve MIA on its own metal in such a situation.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned, being a major base of its OW alliance partner, AA.

CX narrowed it down to BOS, SEA, MIA, and EWR in its social media posts. That notwithstanding, DFW is not entirely implausible. It's certainly far more plausible than MIA because it's much shorter, and I believe also more plausible than BOS because it's a hub for AA. I'd consider it less plausible than SEA, though.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-08-08 02:11:58 and read 34952 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned

I wouldn't fall over with shock if AA *gasp* announced this route within the next 12 months. It seems to be the logical missing piece in their Asia strategy, and - frankly - I'm surprised that DFW-ICN came first.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: thekennady
Posted 2013-08-08 02:53:25 and read 34755 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
I wouldn't fall over with shock if AA *gasp* announced this route within the next 12 months. It seems to be the logical missing piece in their Asia strategy, and - frankly - I'm surprised that DFW-ICN came first.

It would have to be with a 772, and with DFW-HKG only being around 40 PDEW, where would the traffic come from? Besides Latin America, this route would be vying for the same connections as ORD/EWR/JFK, 2 which are one world hubs.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-08 03:27:58 and read 34593 times.

As far as market sizes go in 2012, the demand from these potential new cities to/from HKG were as follows:

SEA 30,000
MIA 19,000
DFW 17,000
BOS 50,000
EWR 85,000 (JFK fyi was 300,000)

Other interesting secondary ones were as follows:

IAD 14,000
IAH 15,000
MCO 9,000
LAS 12,000
ATL 12,000

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-08 04:09:35 and read 34374 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 12):
BOS doesn't strike me as plausible. Only recently has it had any service to Asia.

There's lots of BOS-Asia traffic. The problem is BOS-HKG overflies a good portion of it.

It should be MIA but its too long of a route so I think it will be EWR

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: jcarv
Posted 2013-08-08 04:30:25 and read 34216 times.

As much as I'd like to see BOS be chosen, I don't think anything more than a B787 could be supported. The A350s are a couple years out too.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-08-08 04:44:43 and read 34011 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 16):
There's lots of BOS-Asia traffic

We already have JAL and Hainan announced on that route from Asia. Connecting at NRT is too much of an inconvenience. There is just a void out of EWR to HKG. UA runs a 77E on that route and they have to be leaving cargo in Newark when they do it. People from New Jersey don't like to drive to JFK (it is indeed more than 45 minutes in most traffic circumstances). Not sure if EWR is a great idea but the others sound less than ideal.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX flyboy
Posted 2013-08-08 04:47:21 and read 33978 times.

It will be EWR.

Quoting vvbkumar (Reply 7):
I hope it is SEA. On similar lines, any chance of SQ or CX flying to SEA?

When the A350s arrive yes....SEA is in the plans.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-08-08 05:04:57 and read 33687 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Why would CX fly to Newark? When they already have flights to JFK. There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL

It makes lots of sense for Cathay to fly to Newark since they do JFK already so often. The Europeans all fly to Newark and JFK so why not an Asian airline. Its always surprised me some of the Asian Star airlines do not fly to Newark to connect with Uited but some of these airline use UA's Terminal in Chicago. Miami is beyond the practical range of an 77W. SEA & BOS would be nice but do not have much feed from AA.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: AA777223
Posted 2013-08-08 05:13:48 and read 33508 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned, being a major base of its OW alliance partner, AA. Flying to DFW would also plug into AA's network from there to Florida.

I thought the same thing.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: NZ107
Posted 2013-08-08 05:22:24 and read 33288 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
However I think CX IT folks let the hat out of the bag with EWR already being a choice on their website with little company logo appearing next to it. Also CX previously internally has stated they were looking at EWR to supplement their JFK service.

Didn't happen to see that on FT, did you?  
Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 12):
Wow, it's rare to see such consensus on A.net!

Only because it's been rumoured for at least a year now  

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: FSDan
Posted 2013-08-08 05:26:06 and read 33213 times.

After losing AF, AZ, LO, QR, BR, MH, and SQ (assuming they don't restart one-stop service from EWR) in the past 5 or so years, it would be good to see a new international tail at EWR.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-08 05:33:37 and read 33064 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 18):
We already have JAL and Hainan announced on that route from Asia.

Hainan is not official yet though I believe a PEK flight is more ideal for BOS Far East traffic than an HKG flight.
Think about how many times has QR spoke about DOH-BOS! This new CX US destination at least will be official!

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
SEA & BOS would be nice but do not have much feed from AA.

Its not always about AA here.

SEA has feed from AS who has a partnership with CX
BOS has feed from B6 who has an interline agreement with CX

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: EWRandMDW
Posted 2013-08-08 05:48:32 and read 33489 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Why would CX fly to Newark? When they already have flights to JFK. There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL

Why have service to FLL when MIA is right down I95? I'm sure that in SE Florida there are those who'll use FLL and avoid MIA at all costs. Same with respect to EWR and JFK.

Oh, and the 45 minute drive? Maybe a 3:00 AM Sunday if you're speeding. Otherwise figure on 90-120 minutes, or more. Besides, why should people west of the Hudson be forced to suffer the cost in time and $$ to drive to JFK? I can state these facts because I lived in NJ for more than 20 years and in NYC for about 12, so I do know what it's like!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: zeke
Posted 2013-08-08 05:51:42 and read 33587 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):

I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned, being a major base of its OW alliance partner, AA. Flying to DFW would also plug into AA's network from there to Florida.

Probably over a dozen cities in North America that could see direct services from HKG, however the company needs to look at what it can generate from that city pair, compared to others. A new city pair with daily 77W is services is a significant investment by the time 3 airframes, crews, ground service contracts etc are all in place. Now any company wanting to invest that sort of cash will want to see 10+% return on their investment, if they do not get that return, they may as well just invest the cash without having the risk exposure.

If DFW is not being served today, it is because they can a better return on their investment elsewhere, and/or the projected yields are too low to support the investment.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 19):
When the A350s arrive yes....SEA is in the plans.

"possible/potential" A350 destinations, nothing more at this stage.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 22):
Only because it's been rumoured for at least a year now

I thought they had released the flight numbers and timings last year. I thought we had already discussed .....

Cathay Pacific Planning EWR Launch Summer 2012 (by flythere Nov 17 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-08 06:13:42 and read 33478 times.

It's nearly guaranteed it's EWR. Only question left is whether CX will deploy F or just J/Y+/Y.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX flyboy
Posted 2013-08-08 07:06:38 and read 32517 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 27):
Only question left is whether CX will deploy F or just J/Y+/Y.

Not that it means anything really but the rest of the 77W deliveries for the remainder of the year to CX will all be 4-class planes including First Class.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-08 07:19:49 and read 32149 times.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 28):
Not that it means anything really but the rest of the 77W deliveries for the remainder of the year to CX will all be 4-class planes including First Class.

I know I'm digressing here, but I'd love to try out the new First seat on my upcoming HKG-JFK in Jan'14 (which is a bit too similar to the old First)

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-08 07:38:47 and read 31853 times.

Go on CX's website and try making a booking for EWR...when u do so the CX logo appears besides this destination and it does not do so for BOS SEA MIA ...that is the strongest hint yet  

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-08-08 07:46:53 and read 31600 times.

CX's current long-haul fleet just doesn't work for low-volume destinations, or for ULH. EWR is the only destination that makes any sense at this point.

They will eventually have aircraft with lower operating cost -- so DFW, BOS, or SEA could be in the cards at some point -- but they have given no indication of any plans to order an aircraft that could operate MIA with a useful payload.

[Edited 2013-08-08 07:47:49]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2013-08-08 08:33:45 and read 30748 times.

EWR was the obvious choice of the cities on the list. EWR has been rumored for ages.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 14):
It would have to be with a 772, and with DFW-HKG only being around 40 PDEW, where would the traffic come from? Besides Latin America, this route would be vying for the same connections as ORD/EWR/JFK, 2 which are one world hubs.

Kind of like ORD-BOG. Thats pretty much the exact same arguement I made in that thread that you countered.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
I wouldn't fall over with shock if AA *gasp* announced this route within the next 12 months. It seems to be the logical missing piece in their Asia strategy, and - frankly - I'm surprised that DFW-ICN came first.

Im really not. DFW-ICN (well over 100 PDEW) is a much larger local market than DFW-HKG and DFW-ICN is easy to suppliment through the connections coming from other parts of Texas (especially AUS where the yields and numbers are pretty high).

At the end of the day, Im not looking for DFW-HKG flight in the near future. I think the market may be served at some point, but its a 787 route if that.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-08-08 08:54:12 and read 30331 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Maybe a bit shorter than 17 hours? Miami Heat had a charter from MIA-PVG in about 14 hours. So maybe 15-16 hours??

Never going to happen first of all ORD-HKG is about 15 hour flight and during the winter months the flight can be almost 15:45 from wheels up to wheels down. So there is no way MIA-HKG will be anything less than 16:45 during the summer and during the winter the flight would probably be over 17 hours.

Another reason this ULH flight will never happen is because in order for CX to make money on this route the ticket prices would be unreasonable due to the fact that CX would not be able to board much freight on the plane do to the amount of fuel they would need to operate the flight in both direction. The 77W is a great and capable airplane but there is no way CX could operate that flight fully loaded with passengers and max freight. And if CX can not put any freight on the aircraft or if the amount of freight is severely limited then the cost of operating the flight then gets passed along to the passengers via higher ticket prices. You may think you would take a nonstop from MIA to HKG and perhaps you would be willing to pay the cost but most passengers would see the price of the nonstop and see the price of the connecting flight and if there is a major difference in price many people would choose the connection over the non stop because of the price. The reason why so many international flights are profitable is not only because of passenger ticket prices airlines also make a ton of money off freight and mail. It would be extremely hard for CX to make money on this route depending on passenger revenue alone this is why I don't think they will launch this route.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-08 08:55:19 and read 30306 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 32):
Im really not. DFW-ICN (well over 100 PDEW) is a much larger local market than DFW-HKG and DFW-ICN is easy to suppliment through the connections coming from other parts of Texas (especially AUS where the yields and numbers are pretty high).

Except that KE is already on it, so even when you split it evenly between KE and AA, each side only gets 50 PDEW, which makes it a bit marginal.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-08 08:56:30 and read 30283 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 31):
They will eventually have aircraft with lower operating cost -- so DFW, BOS, or SEA could be in the cards at some point -- but they have given no indication of any plans to order an aircraft that could operate MIA with a useful payload.

The A350-1000s on order could probably do MIAHKG.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2013-08-08 09:01:17 and read 30191 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 34):
Except that KE is already on it, so even when you split it evenly between KE and AA, each side only gets 50 PDEW, which makes it a bit marginal.

Its roughly the same size market as ORD-HKG which is a market that does well on two flights a day.

AA and KE are going to be getting different things out of the market. KE is going to get a lot more beyond ICN traffic while AA is going to get a lot more beyond DFW traffic. I dont know if it will hold at 14x weekly, but it can definately do 10-12x weekly.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-08 09:01:20 and read 30232 times.

MIA-HKG is 8990mi. Easily 17 hours eastbound and up to 18 hours westbound. Can't imagine sitting in 31" 3-4-3 for that long without getting DVT.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-08 09:06:04 and read 30110 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Why would CX fly to Newark? When they already have flights to JFK. There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL

By air the distance between EWR and JFK and MIA and FLL are exactly the same, 21 miles. The difference being as the old AA commercial used to say "New York is a city of Bridges". To drive from MIA to FLL is a straight shot up I-95, from EWR to JFK you have to take (depending on how you go) either two bridges (Goethals, Verranzano), three bridges (Newark Bay Extension, Bayonne, Verranzo) or two bridges and a tunnel (Newark Bay extension, Holland Tunnel, Brooklyn Bridge) or Two tunnels (Lincoln, Mid-town).

Also while EWR serves the NYC market, New Jersey itself is also it's own unique market.

[Edited 2013-08-08 09:10:43]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-08-08 09:09:29 and read 30070 times.

As much as I'd like to see CX at SEA, I just don't see it happening with CX's presence in YVR. They partner with AS for connecting SEA-YVR traffic (and probably to a much lesser degree SEA-SFO).

I am surprised that CX doesn't start DFW, as others have mentioned. Given AA's hub there, that would offer connections over a good chunk of the US and Latin America.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-08-08 09:11:17 and read 30010 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 35):
The A350-1000s on order could probably do MIAHKG.

Not with a full passenger load westbound, let alone any cargo. Even assuming Airbus makes the goal of 8400 nm range, that's not quite enough for MIA-HKG under real world conditions. To carry a good payload on that flight they would need a 777-200LR or one of two not-yet-launched planes: the A350-900R or the 777-8X.

[Edited 2013-08-08 09:11:54]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-08 09:11:31 and read 30038 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL

45 minutes? When was the last time you were up here? I can usually do the drive in 90 minutes on a good day. Bad days, which are more common than you think, I have done it in just under three hours. Plus, factor in the tolls for the bridges and the jersey turnpike (if you go that way), and it is a major undertaking to drive from NJ to JFK.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: sq452
Posted 2013-08-08 09:21:01 and read 29856 times.

This is such a dead giveaway, it's going to be EWR. If not EWR then SEA. They wouldn't be able to operate BOS economically (I'm sure they'd take payload restrictions on a 777-300ER) until the A350's come online. Same goes for MIA I'd imagine.

It is amazing to think that if BOS had an extra 900 feet of runway on 15R/33L we probably would have more Asia flights by now. EWR's longest runway is only 11,000 ft and everyone here knows what kind of routes are able to pulled off out of there - including the worlds longest (sadly for not much longer!).

Quoting a380787 (Reply 37):
MIA-HKG is 8990mi. Easily 17 hours eastbound and up to 18 hours westbound. Can't imagine sitting in 31" 3-4-3 for that long without getting DVT.

CX 777-300ER aircraft economy class is in a 3-3-3 configuration with 32 inches of pitch and 18.5 seat width (you can look this up on seatguru if you want). It's a great economy class product and with long 13 or 14 hour flights, time just seems to dissolve in their seats.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-08 09:41:07 and read 29481 times.

Is CX actually considering BOS within the next 5 years or so? This the first time I've seen the two linked together?

Quoting sq452 (Reply 42):
It is amazing to think that if BOS had an extra 900 feet of runway on 15R/33L we probably would have more Asia flights by now.

BOS would definitely have ICN service and possibly PEK.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: sq452
Posted 2013-08-08 09:53:01 and read 29235 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 43):
Is CX actually considering BOS within the next 5 years or so? This the first time I've seen the two linked together?

I'd assume it is on their radar for A350 service.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 43):
BOS would definitely have ICN service and possibly PEK.

Definitely I would think - They used to have KE service back in the day (but it stopped via IAD if I am not mistaken) and PEK is something that has been rumored/announced/delayed for seemingly ages but nothing has materialized yet.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-08 10:00:27 and read 29099 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 15):
As far as market sizes go in 2012, the demand from these potential new cities to/from HKG were as follows:SEA 30,000MIA 19,000DFW 17,000BOS 50,000EWR 85,000 (JFK fyi was 300,000)

Plus ~6,000 to Miami from FLL.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-08-08 10:00:41 and read 29071 times.

Im going to go out there and pre maturely congratulate EWR on this great new service

EWR has taken a lot of hits lately from foreign airline consolidating at JFK. This is a great new addition for the NY area and a win for NJ.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: cha747
Posted 2013-08-08 10:02:40 and read 29095 times.

What about PHL...with a new Oneworld hub imminent, wouldn't it make sense to connect all the Southeast/Mid-Atlantic traffic to HKG?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: blrsea
Posted 2013-08-08 10:07:11 and read 28957 times.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 19):
It will be EWR.
Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 19):
When the A350s arrive yes....SEA is in the plans.
Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
"possible/potential" A350 destinations, nothing more at this stage.

I was hoping CX would come to SEA!   I hope they add SEA sooner than later ...

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-08 10:25:53 and read 28692 times.

Quoting cha747 (Reply 47):
What about PHL...with a new Oneworld hub imminent, wouldn't it make sense to connect all the Southeast/Mid-Atlantic traffic to HKG?

That's what JFK does - with a local market something like 60x larger.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-08-08 10:37:21 and read 28472 times.

I don't think its ATL but why couldn't CX run a HKG-ANC-ATL flight and really load up with cargo?? The self loading cargo would almost just be icing on the cake compared to the underbelly cargo they could carry with a 77W !

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-08 10:42:15 and read 28390 times.

Quoting sq452 (Reply 42):
CX 777-300ER aircraft economy class is in a 3-3-3 configuration with 32 inches of pitch and 18.5 seat width (you can look this up on seatguru if you want). It's a great economy class product and with long 13 or 14 hour flights, time just seems to dissolve in their seats.

I was talking about if AA ever launch that route. AA wants that route more than CX does.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: luckyone
Posted 2013-08-08 10:53:57 and read 27960 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Why would CX fly to Newark? When they already have flights to JFK. There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL.

Use your own example. When I lived in Coral Gables I never used FLL because I'd have to drive right by MIA to get there, still having to deal with either the Palmetto or US-1. If I lived West of the Hudson why would I drive past EWR and through Manhattan and deal with the van Wyck? That's millions of people, including a large Asian population.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
To drive from MIA to FLL is a straight shot up I-95,

Which is not as convenient as it sounds. The only time that's less than an hour's trip is in the middle of the night. Even then, it's taken me over half an hour to get to FLL from well North of downtown Miami at 11pm. If you're coming from further South, forget it.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: sq452
Posted 2013-08-08 11:00:23 and read 27833 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 51):
I was talking about if AA ever launch that route. AA wants that route more than CX does.

Then I would have to agree with your original comment; i wouldn't want to sit on AA for 17 hours straight! Are they using high density seating on their 777's?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-08-08 11:02:26 and read 27801 times.

Quoting sq452 (Reply 53):
i wouldn't want to sit on AA for 17 hours straight! Are they using high density seating on their 777's?

10 across in regular economy

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: tripp7dfw
Posted 2013-08-08 11:22:34 and read 27549 times.

Quoting sq452 (Reply 53):

Honestly, the new 773 Y cabin (withstanding MCE) is quite comfortable with more than decent pitch. Wouldn't prefer to sit Y in any long haul flight, it's doable on that aircraft, though I tend to agree the route fits nicely with a 78. Regarding DFW market demand, it's tough to simply segment it as an individual market and just "go by the numbers" when it'll be the largest hub - with current initiatives for steady growth - for the largest airline. And as a side note, let's not forget the strong current trend of medium/large corporations relocating and opening outposts in TX. In short, DFWHKG is a sound route that makes sense for AA, oneworld, and the region.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: sq452
Posted 2013-08-08 11:26:08 and read 27433 times.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 54):
10 across in regular economy

That's rough. Airlines these days are trying to cram in extra seats wherever they can; a particularly alarming trend on 777's and 787's where high-density seating can be done. It used to be all about seat pitch for me now width is becoming an issue.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-08 11:26:30 and read 27504 times.

This is very good news (if true). If this keeps up, pretty soon there will be more flights that AA code shares on out of EWR than AA operates with their own aircraft!


Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Why would CX fly to Newark? When they already have flights to JFK. There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL

My good neighbor here in Miami - you should try getting from a "typical northern New Jersey" town, like, say, Livingston to JFK. Next time you're up there, give it a shot and report back to us on the experience.  
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
It makes lots of sense for Cathay to fly to Newark since they do JFK already so often.

I wish more airlines would have the same "sense" as Cathay and do the same!

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Its always surprised me some of the Asian Star airlines do not fly to Newark to connect with Uited but some of these airline use UA's Terminal in Chicago.

Especially since the Asian Star airlines provide much better service than UA. Sadly, the people of New Jersey are saddled with "cattle car" class UA on most routes that if they flew out of JFK, they would have the option of real premium service.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: nickofatlanta
Posted 2013-08-08 13:52:25 and read 25738 times.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 50):

CX already flies freighters along a very similar routing.  

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BD338
Posted 2013-08-08 13:56:14 and read 25683 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
According Cathay Pacific social media posting, they will be announcing service to a new US destination next week.

Per the visual hints they provided, the potential candidate cities are: Boston, Miami, Newark or Seattle.

Dang....I was certain it is was going to be BZN

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Jonathanxxxx
Posted 2013-08-08 14:14:50 and read 25444 times.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 59):

No no thats ridiculous. Obviously MEM needed this, so much unserved demand!      

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-08 14:25:11 and read 25292 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
There is no need to fly to Newark when JFK is right around the corner. It's just a 45 minute drive, it's like from MIA to FLL

Much longer than 45 min. in rush hour traffic. Can you even do it in 45 min. in normal traffic?

EWR is more convenient for millions of people, and the same applies for JFK. Why do some airlines serve both NRT and HND, LHR and LGW, CDG and ORY, etc.? Because there's a market for both.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-08 15:24:44 and read 24687 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 61):
Much longer than 45 min. in rush hour traffic. Can you even do it in 45 min. in normal traffic?

I've done downtown Miami to FLL in 20. It's not that far with no traffic.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: steex
Posted 2013-08-08 15:34:59 and read 24513 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 62):
I've done downtown Miami to FLL in 20. It's not that far with no traffic.

I believe he's referring to travel between EWR and JFK, not MIA and FLL.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-08-08 15:35:48 and read 24527 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
I wouldn't fall over with shock if AA *gasp* announced this route within the next 12 months. It seems to be the logical missing piece in their Asia strategy, and - frankly - I'm surprised that DFW-ICN came first.

I feel the same. CX is a great partner to have in HKG, with both sides having feed, it shouldn't be a problem filling the planes profitably.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 14):
It would have to be with a 772, and with DFW-HKG only being around 40 PDEW, where would the traffic come from? Besides Latin America, this route would be vying for the same connections as ORD/EWR/JFK, 2 which are one world hubs.

I Imagine some of the cities listed below could help fill a DFW-HKG flight...Especially from Florida. . . VVV

Quoting behramjee (Reply 15):
As far as market sizes go in 2012, the demand from these potential new cities to/from HKG were as follows:

SEA 30,000
MIA 19,000
DFW 17,000
BOS 50,000
EWR 85,000 (JFK fyi was 300,000)

Other interesting secondary ones were as follows:

IAD 14,000
IAH 15,000
MCO 9,000
LAS 12,000
ATL 12,000

MIA, IAD, IAH, MCO and ATL could all help fill flights from DFW to HKG. With this list, the flight looks a lot more doable.

Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
If DFW is not being served today, it is because they can a better return on their investment elsewhere, and/or the projected yields are too low to support the investment.

AA wanted to serve DFW-HKG years ago, but the pilot contract didn't allow them to fly that long. Now that the contract has been settled, it is a non-issue and AA is free to pursue the flight if they wish...And I believe they do wish to do so.



Although EWR is considered the NYC market, I feel like it serves a drastically different purpose for the area b/c of its geographic location. EWR can capture customers from Manhattan as well as customers around New Jersey. As many have mentioned, I don't think the people of Jersey are fond of travelling to JFK, nor is it remotely convenient......

It will be interesting to see what this does to the UA competition...If in fact EWR is the new

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-08-08 15:36:03 and read 24502 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 61):
Why do some airlines serve both NRT and HND, LHR and LGW, CDG and ORY, etc.? Because there's a market for both.

Yep, same with SJC to SFO. I can fly to SJC and my family can drive a quick 10 miles round trip to pick me up. If I had to fly into SFO, it would be an 80+ mile round trip drive. Same if I arrive and rent a car. Another sister lives about 4 miles from SNA. Would you rather pick someone up 4 miles away or drive all the way up to LAX?

Some airlines have discontinued service to airports like SJC, OAK, BUR or SNA because they naturally assume you'll just fly out of the SFO or LAX. That just added 2 hours of unpleasant freeway driving total, or twice as much if someone picks you up.

Wasn't there once a rumor that CX was going to serve SJC back when AA had a large presence there? Now that I'd like to see!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-08-08 16:12:29 and read 23984 times.

Quoting cha747 (Reply 47):
What about PHL...with a new Oneworld hub imminent, wouldn't it make sense to connect all the Southeast/Mid-Atlantic traffic to HKG?

Maybe if US/AA generate much more traffic out of PHL and reach further into the catchment area of EWR, even then you're likely several years out.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 49):
That's what JFK does - with a local market something like 60x larger.

Not really, the route is sustained on the huge local market. CX/AA don't exactly offer a ton of connecting opportunities on HKG-JFK-XYZ

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX flyboy
Posted 2013-08-08 16:42:58 and read 23720 times.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 64):
AA wanted to serve DFW-HKG years ago, but the pilot contract didn't allow them to fly that long. Now that the contract has been settled, it is a non-issue and AA is free to pursue the flight if they wish...And I believe they do wish to do so.

CX wants this route too, and all going according to plans, DFW should be our next North American passenger destination in the next couple of years unless the economic situation takes a drastic change.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-08 16:45:07 and read 23623 times.

Quoting sq452 (Reply 44):
I'd assume it is on their radar for A350 service.

It could very well be - I always thought the route wouldn't be viable due to location of HKG but looking at 2011 traffic numbers for routes that CX could serve reasonably with BOS-HKG add up to about 223 PDEW.

These include:

HKG (obviously)
MNL
TPE
CGK
SIN
BKK
KUL
CAN
DAC
SGN
PNH
HAN

I don't have other info but a BOS-HKG flight also opens up DPS, CEB, and REP as other new 1-stops from BOS plus a variety of Southern Chinese Destinations.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: anrec80
Posted 2013-08-08 17:03:33 and read 23391 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
With SQ pulling out, CX is logical to go up against UA's hub with a nonstop that connects well to almost everywhere in Asia except Japan, S. Korea and Northern China.

SIN is much further to the south, and SQ was using all-J class 345 on the route. CX will likely get some of that J traffic (but not all of it), but also tap into Y segment. JFK and EWR - practically different markets.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-08 17:15:32 and read 23174 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 62):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 61):
Much longer than 45 min. in rush hour traffic. Can you even do it in 45 min. in normal traffic?

I've done downtown Miami to FLL in 20. It's not that far with no traffic.

I guess my reply was ambiguous. I was referring to the driving time between JFK and EWR.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-08-08 17:38:07 and read 22915 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):

By air the distance between EWR and JFK and MIA and FLL are exactly the same, 21 miles. The difference being as the old AA commercial used to say "New York is a city of Bridges". To drive from MIA to FLL is a straight shot up I-95, from EWR to JFK you have to take (depending on how you go) either two bridges (Goethals, Verranzano), three bridges (Newark Bay Extension, Bayonne, Verranzo) or two bridges and a tunnel (Newark Bay extension, Holland Tunnel, Brooklyn Bridge) or Two tunnels (Lincoln, Mid-town).

Also while EWR serves the NYC market, New Jersey itself is also it's own unique market.

Yeah plus there are millions of people in Connecticut, New York State, and North Eastern PA to which EWR is much easier to drive and much cheaper to park your car in off property lots for long trips such as Asia trips.

EWR is a huge market which is why it can support so much international and premium service even if people on here hate to admit that.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-08 17:44:10 and read 22814 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 71):
EWR is a huge market which is why it can support so much international and premium service

Well it supports as much international service as it supports, which is much less than JFK. And as for premium service, most international flights out of EWR don't even offer F.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-08-08 17:51:15 and read 22763 times.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 64):
AA wanted to serve DFW-HKG years ago

Correction - AA wanted to do DFW-PEK, but due to the pilot union issues they had to launch China service from ORD-PEK instead. Unfortunately with all the PEK slot time mess, that route probably was never a winner.

Story from 2006
http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/archive/index.php/t-5946-p-2.html

=

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: hz747300
Posted 2013-08-08 18:02:04 and read 22607 times.

I received a tweet this morning saying it would be SEA...

Anything official besides the route map?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: uberflieger
Posted 2013-08-08 18:17:36 and read 22417 times.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 64):

'AA wanted to serve DFW-HKG years ago, but the pilot contract didn't allow them to fly that long. Now that the contract has been settled, it is a non-issue and AA is free to pursue the flight if they wish...And I believe they do wish to do so'

dude, you're getting a couple of things mixed up

- AA did a polar proving flight in 2001 for ORD-HKG service commencing in the spring of 2002
- APA, the pilot union, sabotaged the DFW-PEK application in 2006

Chicago has always been AA's intended hub for service to Hong Kong and I bet we know soon whether that's changed   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-08 18:41:35 and read 22073 times.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 74):
I received a tweet this morning saying it would be SEA...

Oh no! There will be more than a few people around here disappointed if it isn't EWR

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-08 19:03:41 and read 21867 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 76):
Oh no! There will be more than a few people around here disappointed if it isn't EWR.

There will be more than a few people around here disappointed if it isn't MIA     

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: vvbkumar
Posted 2013-08-08 19:42:38 and read 21349 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 77):
There will be more than a few people around here disappointed if it isn't MIA     

And a few (in minority though) would be Happy if it is SEA  

[Edited 2013-08-08 20:07:05]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-08 20:35:28 and read 20785 times.

I would love to see CX fly SEA with would likely be 777-200ER aircraft. However, does SEA really have the room? CX entering the SEA-HKG market would definitely get the attention of DL who, I'm sure, is strongly considering it.

CX to SEA would be surprise to me.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: NZ107
Posted 2013-08-08 20:47:49 and read 20597 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 79):
I would love to see CX fly SEA with would likely be 777-200ER aircraft.

They have no 77Es. Only 772s.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Carpethead
Posted 2013-08-08 20:58:08 and read 20508 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 79):
CX fly SEA with would likely be 777-200ER aircraft.


They do have A343s.
It's been ages since A343s flown to the US.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: blrsea
Posted 2013-08-08 21:04:22 and read 20405 times.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 74):
I received a tweet this morning saying it would be SEA...

That would be wonderful if turns out to be true   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX flyboy
Posted 2013-08-08 21:42:49 and read 20146 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 77):

Considering I've seen flight numbers, times etc for EWR as well as heard it directly from the mouth of one of our senior managers, I would be more surprised than most of you to hear it was SEA!!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-08 22:18:28 and read 19747 times.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 83):

Would you like to see MIA? What route do you want to see CX start?

Probably the closest thing of seeing Cathay Pacific in Miami. Just Cargo.

Big version: Width: 900 Height: 618 File size: 71kb


[Edited 2013-08-08 22:55:54]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-08-08 22:36:26 and read 19613 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 73):
Correction - AA wanted to do DFW-PEK
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 75):
APA, the pilot union, sabotaged the DFW-PEK application in 2006

I stand corrected. I don't know why I kept thinking it was DFW-HKG. . . Thanks for pointing that out.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 79):
CX entering the SEA-HKG market would definitely get the attention of DL who, I'm sure, is strongly considering it.

Is HKG-SEA big enough for 2 players? Perhaps it's best CX make the first move so DL reconsiders entering...

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: sq452
Posted 2013-08-09 04:48:18 and read 18969 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 68):
It could very well be - I always thought the route wouldn't be viable due to location of HKG but looking at 2011 traffic numbers for routes that CX could serve reasonably with BOS-HKG add up to about 223 PDEW.

These include:

HKG (obviously)
MNL
TPE
CGK
SIN
BKK
KUL
CAN
DAC
SGN
PNH
HAN

I don't have other info but a BOS-HKG flight also opens up DPS, CEB, and REP as other new 1-stops from BOS plus a variety of Southern Chinese Destinations.

Where are you pulling the PDEW numbers from?

It can be easily be supported with an A350 I reckon, virtually all of Southeast Asia will be able to be covered, the subcontinent as well as plenty of locations in China, Shanghai included. I bet we will see it eventually, only a matter of time.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-09 05:34:01 and read 18875 times.

Geez, 80+ posts to debate something that was pretty much annouced last year. LOL
It's going to be EWR.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 16):
There's lots of BOS-Asia traffic. The problem is BOS-HKG overflies a good portion of it.

And a lot doesn't. 50,000 annualy without a non-stop connection is nothing to sneeze at. And then there's the Pearl River Delta Economic Zone which is a huge draw for business. I suspect the majority of pax today are flying into CAN with connections at various intermediate points. A non-stop to HKG would definitely grab some of this market.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-09 05:50:14 and read 18804 times.

Quoting sq452 (Reply 86):
Where are you pulling the PDEW numbers from?

Its 2011 MIDT fortunately made available to the general public here: http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

The only limitation is that it gives only the top 200 markets from Boston. Number 200 is BUS at 2574 passengers per year. There may be markets from BOS served by the CX hub in HKG that may be around 1000-2000 pasengers per year (Secondary/Tertiary Southern Chinese cities, CEB and DPS probably are in this range ). 223 PDEW is a low estimate for sure.

Quoting sq452 (Reply 86):
Shanghai included

I didn't include Shanghai since it would add about 1000-1200 miles to your trip than going through JFK/EWR or DTW but its highly likely that people would fly BOS-HKG-PVG and this adds about 75-80 PDEW to pull from.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-09 09:48:39 and read 18330 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 88):
I didn't include Shanghai since it would add about 1000-1200 miles to your trip than going through JFK/EWR or DTW but its highly likely that people would fly BOS-HKG-PVG and this adds about 75-80 PDEW to pull from.

I hope you mean r/t since PVG-HKG is less than 700nm. It's basically as bad as flying to Asia via IAD. The connection time at a US airport alone, especially the immigration and customs exercise on the inbound leg, would eat into a significant part of that 1000-1200 mile flying time.

[Edited 2013-08-09 09:50:02]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-09 10:11:47 and read 18215 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 77):
There will be more than a few people around here disappointed if it isn't MIA     

Except the people in EWR actually had a shot at it to begin with.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-09 10:39:32 and read 18109 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 89):
I hope you mean r/t since PVG-HKG is less than 700nm. It's basically as bad as flying to Asia via IAD. The connection time at a US airport alone, especially the immigration and customs exercise on the inbound leg, would eat into a significant part of that 1000-1200 mile flying time.

No its one way. Remember when you fly to HKG you are going further South than PVG and then have to go back North if connecting to there!

HKG-PVG%0D%0ABOS-JFK-PVG%0D%0ABOS-DTW-PVG%0D%0ABOS-EWR-PVG&MS=wls&MP=r&DU=mi" target="_blank">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=BOS-HKG...0D%0ABOS-EWR-PVG&MS=wls&MP=r&DU=mi


Agree with you on the time considerations with a US Connection. Also, I think if I was going to SIN or CGK I'd rather connect in HKG over PEK or PVG as well.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-09 10:41:31 and read 18176 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 90):
Quoting Miami (Reply 77):There will be more than a few people around here disappointed if it isn't MIA
Except the people in EWR actually had a shot at it to begin with.

Cathay has been taking a very serious look at flying to Miami via a third city point. It's Newark, but Cathay to Miami in the future shouldn't come as a shock to anybody. Cathay's owner, Swire Group, has it's Swire Properties headquartered in Miami. South Florida doesn't have many business ties to Asia, but it does have very strong business ties with Hong Kong.

[Edited 2013-08-09 10:42:25]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-09 10:47:11 and read 18097 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
Cathay has been taking a very serious look at flying to Miami via a third city point. It's Newark, but Cathay to Miami in the future shouldn't come as a shock to anybody. Cathay's owner, Swire Group, has it's Swire Properties headquartered in Miami. South Florida doesn't have many business ties to Asia, but it does have very strong business ties with Hong Kong.

I kinda figured SEA would be a long-shot, even if did have about a 20% chance amongst the other cities listed. If MIA is truly in their scopes, they should try linking it with a destination in Canada so they have revenue pax.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-09 14:59:56 and read 17673 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
Cathay's owner, Swire Group, has it's Swire Properties headquartered in Miami.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with them. Swire Properties is the developer of Brickell CityCentre located in Miami which is currently under construction.

Read more here:
http://swireproperties.us/brickell-citycentre/
http://exmiami.org/index.php/brickel...-towers-529-ft-under-construction/

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
Cathay has been taking a very serious look at flying to Miami via a third city point.
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
but Cathay to Miami in the future shouldn't come as a shock to anybody.

I do believe CX will launch MIA, just like you said as a 3rd point city via LAX, SFO, JFK.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
It's Newark

Newark is most likely the new route for CX, but who knows? Maybe they are going to announce MIA as a 3rd point city.& Miami offers the best connecting opportunities for the Hong Kong-Latin America/Caribbean travellers now at over 100,000 passengers annually. But right now I highly doubt that MIA is coming soon for CX

When Cathay begins to take delivery of Airbus A350s from 2016, this will open up the possibility of more long, thin routes into North America and Europe, COO of CX, Chu says

-Miami   

[Edited 2013-08-09 15:06:11]

[Edited 2013-08-09 15:06:48]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-09 16:49:14 and read 17372 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
Cathay has been taking a very serious look at flying to Miami via a third city point. It's Newark, but Cathay to Miami in the future shouldn't come as a shock to anybody. Cathay's owner, Swire Group, has it's Swire Properties headquartered in Miami. South Florida doesn't have many business ties to Asia, but it does have very strong business ties with Hong Kong.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have AA fly the route with a 787? They start getting them at the end of next year.
MIA could be a nice 787 base since it is the one AA hub that really needs the range of the 787 (for Asia and ME routes, as well as S.Africa.).

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-09 16:54:56 and read 17379 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
Cathay's owner, Swire Group,

According to the CX website, Swire only owns 44.97% of CX.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-09 17:42:10 and read 17249 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 92):
Cathay has been taking a very serious look at flying to Miami via a third city point. It's Newark, but Cathay to Miami in the future shouldn't come as a shock to anybody. Cathay's owner, Swire Group, has it's Swire Properties headquartered in Miami. South Florida doesn't have many business ties to Asia, but it does have very strong business ties with Hong Kong.

I would suggest MIA via Tokyo or Calgary only.

NRT-MIA is 11,500KM nonstop so easily do able with a B77W + it allows the possibility of JAL too code sharing which is important for feeder purposes (on the fifth freedom sector) as it can supply the flight with pax originating from Korea, East China and Japan who would not have to back track via HKG. Plus Japan-Latin America via MIA interline feed with AA offers good potential as well.

YYC-MIA is a big risk as it involves launching 2 new routes in one get go. I have suggested YYC here because its a growing market place for demand to Asia and offers good yield as well due to the oil based economy of the city. YYC is WS's main hub too as well as key interline partner for CX in Canada so it can feed CX with domestic Canada pax out of YYC easily. However filling a daily B77W on HKG-YYC-MIA would be somewhat of a challenge I reckon on a year round basis especially in Years 1 and 2 of the route launch.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-09 19:38:48 and read 17037 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 97):
NRT-MIA is 11,500KM nonstop so easily do able with a B77W + it allows the possibility of JAL too code sharing which is important for feeder purposes (on the fifth freedom sector) as it can supply the flight with pax originating from Korea, East China and Japan who would not have to back track via HKG. Plus Japan-Latin America via MIA interline feed with AA offers good potential as well.

Japan-Florida O&D passenger traffic ranges between 118,000 and 143,000 annual passengers with 163,000 to 205,000 overall passengers. Miami offers the most opportunities for connections to Brazil and all of Latin American/Caribbean markets for Tokyo’s 325,000 annual O&D traffic travelling to/from Latin America and the Caribbean

Here in Miami, crossing fingers for NRT-MIA.

-Miami   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX711
Posted 2013-08-09 20:49:47 and read 16886 times.

What is the likelihood of switching the HKG-YVR-JFK to HKG-YVR-MIA or BOS? That way, CX may be able to fill up p a 77W. I remember JFK was first accessed via YVR, and the HKG-JFK market built up that way. CX can use their 2nd YVR flight to build up the markets to other US cities.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-08-10 01:24:02 and read 16507 times.

Quoting CX711 (Reply 99):
What is the likelihood of switching the HKG-YVR-JFK to HKG-YVR-MIA or BOS?

It seems logical to me that CX might consider replacing HKG-YVR-JFK with HKG-YVR-MIA.

BOS doesn't make as much sense to me, since BOS is close enough to serve nonstop if CX wants to serve BOS.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-10 05:32:04 and read 16248 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 100):
It seems logical to me that CX might consider replacing HKG-YVR-JFK with HKG-YVR-MIA.

I disagree for the following reasons:

1. CX has built the YVR-JFK route over a number of years and they get good 5th freedom traffic on this sector along with code share feeder support from AA. It is also favored by J class pax on this sector versus flying a less comfortable A320 of the competition.

2. Over the past 12 months, the YVR-JFK (not including LGA/EWR) market size was 80,000 passengers of which CX carried 75% (60,000 pax) at an average round trip fare of US$ 1100 including YQ which for a trans-continental North American route is quite good.

3. Of their total of 60,000 pax, 10% were F/J class i.e. 6,000 paying an average round trip fare of US$ 3,600 including YQ.

4. In the premium cabin segment on YVR-JFK, CX controls 90% market share !

5. YVR-MIA is 566KM longer than YVR-JFK, hence an extra hour of flying time at least thus further increasing costs. Plus getting a newly amended early morning arrival slot back at HKG airport is not an easy task now a days as this shall be required due to the greater flying time distance of HKG-YVR-MIA versus HKG-YVR-JFK.

Quoting Miami (Reply 98):
Japan-Florida O&D passenger traffic ranges between 118,000 and 143,000 annual passengers with 163,000 to 205,000 overall passengers

Now as far as Tokyo-Miami market size is concerned, it is as follows for the past 12 months:

NRT-MIA/FLL combined...31,000
HND-MIA/FLL combined...4,800

So in total from Tokyo its approximately 36,000 per year where as from Osaka its 3,000 so I dont know where you got your stats from as there is a big difference from Shepherd / MarketIS systems versus what you have.

Also fyi, YVR-MIA past 1 year was 51,000 passengers versus 37,000 from YYC + 17,000 from YEG (54,000 total from Alberta...YEG-YYC feed from WS can be easily provided).

[Edited 2013-08-10 05:36:26]

[Edited 2013-08-10 05:46:08]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2013-08-10 05:37:32 and read 16238 times.

I'd flip a coin between Newark and Seattle, then Boston a distant third...and Miami close behind. Actually, you could interchange MIA/BOS on this list, but they'd both be FAR behind Seattle and Newark.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-08-10 05:43:10 and read 16254 times.

They're not going anywhere on the JFK-YVR route.

They have been serving that route forever and a day.

And YVR is home to huge population from Hong Kong that are very familiar with CX...so point to point or connecting routes from Vancouver are not as unusual as the recently announced MXP-JFK on Emirates

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-10 09:11:47 and read 15928 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 101):
So in total from Tokyo its approximately 36,000 per year where as from Osaka its 3,000 so I dont know where you got your stats from as there is a big difference from Shepherd / MarketIS systems versus what you have.

I said Japan AND Florida. Not MIA/FLL.

My source comes from someone at MIA. More specific the former director. Now, I'm not sure how accurate it is, but when you also have the marketing director telling you the statistics. It's hard to turn down.

You're Welcome.   

-Miami   

[Edited 2013-08-10 09:13:33]

[Edited 2013-08-10 09:14:00]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-08-10 09:41:49 and read 15840 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 101):
I disagree for the following reasons:

Excellent points. I knew CX did well on JFK-YVR, but I didn't realize it did that well.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-10 10:33:03 and read 15720 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 101):
so I dont know where you got your stats from as there is a big difference from Shepherd / MarketIS systems versus what you have.

He never said Miami-Japan. He said Florida-Japan.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 101):
Also fyi, YVR-MIA past 1 year was 51,000 passengers versus 37,000 from YYC + 17,000 from YEG (54,000 total from Alberta...YEG-YYC feed from WS can be easily provided).

Again, you are forgetting FLL. MIAYVR is ~90,000 (single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop) and MIAYYC (which WestJet will start flying 6x a week in October) is ~60,000.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-10 11:26:37 and read 15548 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 106):
He never said Miami-Japan. He said Florida-Japan.

There is a lot of people always criticizing MIA. Like they want to see MIA fail for some reason

We all understand and know MIA isn't the greatest market to Asia. And we know that MIA is the farthest point in the US to reach.

Even though MIA is far, it can still be a successful route. Whether it's DXB-MIA, NRT-MIA, or even SIN-MIA. You cannot deny the statistics. Now obviously SIN-MIA would probably never happen. I was just giving an example.

Now, sure SEA, EWR, and possibly BOS can do better than HGK-MIA. I'm not denying that but it seems to me not a lot of people want to see MIA succeeded.

There is ALWAYS something good for each airport. I'm not biased, I'm only saying the truth.

I've always seen you "defend" MIA, and there is always someone refusing, or deny the truth. Whether MIA can do NRT on a 787, 77W, or a 77E.

I would definitely want to see CX, but if they don't want to launch MIA. I can't do anything about it, and I need to suck it up like I have all this time without a nonstop to Asia.

I just needed to point this out.

-Miami   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-10 11:57:00 and read 15432 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 101):
. CX has built the YVR-JFK route over a number of years and they get good 5th freedom traffic on this sector along with code share feeder support from AA. It is also favored by J class pax on this sector versus flying a less comfortable A320 of the competition

Their schedule isn't ideal for the local market with the eastbound red-eye and wesbound arriving around 1 AM. Passengers also have to contend with JFK customs/immigration along with all the HKG-originating passengers since CX doesn't use U.S. pre-clearance at YVR which permits passengers on all other U.S.-bound flights from YVR to clear all those formalities in YVR and arrive in the U.S. as if they were on domestic flights.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CPA62
Posted 2013-08-10 12:06:27 and read 15439 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 107):
Now, sure SEA, EWR, and possibly BOS can do better than HGK-MIA. I'm not denying that but it seems to me not a lot of people want to see MIA succeeded.

SEA is not even on CX's radar, there is little Asian support for Seattle, however Newark is.

This is what we are being told in YVR?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-08-10 12:18:15 and read 15365 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 107):
Even though MIA is far, it can still be a successful route.

Depends on where. To NRT, sure. That is well within 787 range and would be a perfect 787 route. But to southern China or SE Asia, it's so far that you have to have specialized equipment. And markets like that need to be very, very revenue-heavy. MIA is a good business market, but not one on the scale of HKG or NYC. I don't have anything against Miami at all, but I don't think it warrants an airline that doesn't currently have ULH aircraft buying a special fleet to start ULH service.

I think MIA-YVR-HKG would have a much better shot at success.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-10 12:36:13 and read 15343 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 110):
I think MIA-YVR-HKG would have a much better shot at success.

I agree with you 100%

Like Mah4546 said YVR-MIA is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop.

Also, I believe CX does HKG-YVR-JFK.

-Miami   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-08-10 12:45:46 and read 15327 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 107):
There is a lot of people always criticizing MIA. Like they want to see MIA fail for some reason

Miami is beginning to become to airports what the Boeing 767-400 is to aircraft around here. Let it go, no one wants either to fail.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-10 13:12:13 and read 15235 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 112):

How do you do?   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: A388
Posted 2013-08-10 13:26:05 and read 15168 times.

Why would MIA be the option to connections to Latin America when Brazil has several Asian airlines already flying there? Brazil probably is the only country there with the biggest potential. Besides transiting in MIA is said to be a nightmare. Why fly through MIA?

A388

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-10 15:22:10 and read 14988 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 114):
Why would MIA be the option to connections to Latin America when Brazil has several Asian airlines already flying there? Brazil probably is the only country there with the biggest potential. Besides transiting in MIA is said to be a nightmare. Why fly through MIA?

From what I hear, transiting at GRU is even worse   I'll use GRU because it is the one airport already served by those few Asian carriers.
For one, MIA has greater service to Latin America than any airport in Brazil. Second, MIA is on the way to Latin America whereas to get to GRU you need to averfly just about all of Latin America thus it is not a good connecting point. Third, you can't fly from Asia to Brazil non-stop (you can from the ME), so if your final destination is not GRU, it requires at least 2 connections, possibly 3 connections to get to anywhere in Latin America with one of those Asian airlines.

The alternative to MIA for Asia-LatAm service is not the Asian Carriers and MIA's handicap to land non-stop Asian service is OneWorld's extensive coverage of Latin America. You can fly from HKG/NRT/etc to JFK then connect to AA/OneWorld carriers to various cities in Latin America. That's a better option than any Asian carrier via GRU. Between Asia and LatAm you have 1-stop options via JFK, LHR, MAD, DFW, or LAX. I'd say that pretty much covers just about any significant city pair in this market.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-10 15:27:43 and read 14981 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 114):
Why fly through MIA?

MIA would be another option just as DXB and DOH can be options but it has a lot going for it.

As we all know, MIA serves an excellent portfoilo of Latin American destinations not just Brazil. Anything north or East of ASU in Latin America and Carribbean connects well from a HKG-MIA flight without adding thousands of miles. DXB and DOH are actually better suited to connect HKG for Deeper South America. Test some routes on gcmap.com. MIA is absolutely perfect for any Japan connections to Latin America with the exception of non-Yucatan Mexico.

Finally, MIA is an AA hub and CX (HKG hub) or JL (NRT hub) are alliance partners.

The transit hopefully is improved with extra staffing,planning, etc.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-08-10 15:45:32 and read 14911 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 111):
Like Mah4546 said YVR-MIA is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop.

But would CX be allowed traffic rights for YVR-MIA??

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: A388
Posted 2013-08-10 16:25:23 and read 14848 times.

The Middle East indeed is a better option for the deeper south American destinations and Emirates, Qatar and Etihad will expand more in South America in the coming years, especially when looking all the aircraft they still have on order.

And as airbazar said, there are better options to fly from Asia to South America. Right now CX will need to stop somewhere else to fly to MIA so that sector alone has one stop. When more 787's and the A350 will start coming available MIA even not be needed to fly from Asia to South America. These new generation aircraft don't only make new routes to MIA possible but maybe also new routes to South America from Asia.

And A388

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-10 17:51:17 and read 14743 times.

Quoting CPA62 (Reply 109):
SEA is not even on CX's radar, there is little Asian support for Seattle, however Newark is.

As much as I believe you, your statement kind of contradicts the topic of the original poster. SEA apparently was one of 5 finalists. So, yes, SEA was considered.

Also, how can you say that there is "little" Asian support in SEA when a lot of SEA's recent expansion has been Asia??? If you're comparing it to YVR, you're probably right. But to make that general statement is incorrect.

I don't see CX flying to SEA at least until they start receiving 787's. Even the A350's would be too large for SEA...especially during the off-peak seasons.

I ONLY way I can see CX starting SEA service is as pre-emptive strike against DL's expansion out of SEA. HKG is on the hot list for SEA expansion.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Miami
Posted 2013-08-10 17:58:11 and read 14722 times.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 117):
But would CX be allowed traffic rights for YVR-MIA??

They were allowed to for JFK. So why not MIA?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-10 18:18:53 and read 14695 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 120):
Quoting trex8 (Reply 117):
But would CX be allowed traffic rights for YVR-MIA??

They were allowed to for JFK. So why not MIA?

Not sure how liberal the Canada-Hong Kong bilateral is now. At one time I think CX was restricted to only one 5th freedom tag-on destination beyond YVR which was originally SFO before they started nonstop HKG-SFO service. They then moved the tag-on to JFK.

At that time I believe CP, the Canadian carrier serving HKG, was also restricted to only one 5th freedom market, which was originally Tokyo (intermediate stop between YVR and HKG for many years). After CP began nonstop YVR-HKG service sometime in the 1980s they used their 5th freedom rights for a tag-on HKG-BKK for a while, initially with DC-10-30 and later 747-400. The aircraft overnighted in BKK. The BKK tag-on was very unprofitable and didn't last very long. A little later CP also briefly operated HKG-MNL as a tag-on with the 744 but they never had 5th freedom rights on that sector.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-08-10 18:28:00 and read 14688 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 119):
As much as I believe you, your statement kind of contradicts the topic of the original poster. SEA apparently was one of 5 finalists. So, yes, SEA was considered.

Please don't read that posting 4 pictures on a website as being equivilent to some actual analysis.

One of my client airlines regularly does a similar tease all the time for new destinations, and simply pulls random destination photos to mix in with their intended destination. No science involved. Here CX was needed 3 other US cities to mix in.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: staralliance85
Posted 2013-08-10 20:22:49 and read 14470 times.

It is going to be EWR. There is a huge demand from the NYC area to HKG. I think it will be great because living in NJ I much prefer to go to EWR over JFK. CX can definitely steal the Premium passengers from UA on that flight. I have taken the UA nonstop from EWR to HKG a couple of times this year and I have to admit I would be very willing to give CX a chance. UA has a very poor on time performance record for their EWR-HKG route, they probably cancel it 1-2 Xs a month. I am a Premier Gold Member and was flying to HKG last month, I was seriously considering canceling my United BusinessFirst ticket to fly CX out of JFK. This was because UA's track record of severely delaying or canceling that flight. I would love the option of having CX at EWR. Plus, I think CX knows they can get UA customers.

In the long term I think SEA will be a great addition for CX. EWR is definitely a safer bet for the company because they know that they have the demand and will make money on that flight. DL will definitely be the first on to add SEA-HKG.

In my opinion, MIA is not a good option because of the distance from HKG -MIA. It will be a gamble to fly a 773 there and see how they do. The expenses are too high and the demand is not garunteed. Yes, it can be a good route for Latin American traffic but PAX would have to clear US Customs and Immigration to make their connecting AA flights. Going through US customs and immigration at major US airports is a huge hassle now because lines are longer than ever. You would be lucky if it only took you an hour to go through immigrations and customs. If I were coming from HKg to Latin America, I would much rather transfer in Europe because you are still in transit and would stay clear of transferring in MIA.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-10 23:25:42 and read 14136 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 122):
Please don't read that posting 4 pictures on a website as being equivilent to some actual analysis.

One of my client airlines regularly does a similar tease all the time for new destinations, and simply pulls random destination photos to mix in with their intended destination. No science involved. Here CX was needed 3 other US cities to mix in.

I would have to admit that it would be totally awesome if CX really did announce service to SEA.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX flyboy
Posted 2013-08-11 02:05:39 and read 14004 times.

Quoting CPA62 (Reply 109):
SEA is not even on CX's radar, there is little Asian support for Seattle, however Newark is.

Actually not true. There was a presentation last year listing potential new longhaul cities they are looking at and SEA was one of them.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX711
Posted 2013-08-11 05:09:14 and read 13824 times.

Does anyone know what rights CX has to operate flights within US? Can it fly HKG-EWR-MIA and carry passengers flying from EWR to MIA? Also ORD seems to lie on the great circle path between MIA and HKG

What about accessing MIA from Europe? I believe CX was granted rights to fly LHR to JFK which it never exercised, probably for commercial reasons.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-11 06:05:09 and read 13868 times.

Quoting CX711 (Reply 126):
Does anyone know what rights CX has to operate flights within US?

No foreign airline can sell tickets to carry passengers within the U.S.
QF flies between LAX and JFK but all the passengers on that segment must originate or end their trip outside of the U.S.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-08-11 06:08:34 and read 13856 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 111):
Like Mah4546 said YVR-MIA is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop.

Which makes you think why CX would be in such a market if AA and AC (or any other airline) don't see any profit in this market.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-08-11 06:17:24 and read 13850 times.

IF Cathay was going to fly to Miami they would be wise to consider flying via Europe. Miami to Hong Kong Nonstop would be a challenge and stopping in another US city requires every one to clear customs on the way to Miami. HKG to Miami via Europe is 1,000 miles longer but saves hassles in customs compared to Neawrk, SFO or LAX. Maybe HKG - Manchester, UK - MIA works ?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-08-11 09:29:04 and read 13541 times.

Quoting cha747 (Reply 47):
What about PHL...with a new Oneworld hub imminent, wouldn't it make sense to connect all the Southeast/Mid-Atlantic traffic to HKG?

I'm surprised too that no one's talking about PHL ... the upcoming OneWorld mega hub!

Other than the NYC area ... PHL is probably best positioned to serve the eastern seaboard.

However unlikely ... CX in BOS or SEA would be very cool!   

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: zeke
Posted 2013-08-11 09:35:34 and read 13539 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 100):
It seems logical to me that CX might consider replacing HKG-YVR-JFK with HKG-YVR-MIA.

I would think if they had time in the schedule, a YYZ-MIA or YVR-MIA tag may be the way to move forward. I do not think the US DOT would ever allow CX to tag on from a current US destination.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 125):
There was a presentation last year listing potential new longhaul cities they are looking at and SEA was one of them.

SEA is not presently viable with a 77W.

Quoting ASA (Reply 130):
Other than the NYC area ... PHL is probably best positioned to serve the eastern seaboard.

Once more cost effective aircraft enter the fleet, more city pairs will be looked at.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-11 09:56:00 and read 13431 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 131):
I do not think the US DOT would ever allow CX to tag on from a current US destination.

They could but they would not be able to carry revenue pax within the US due to Cabotage laws...not even code share. It would be like LAX-JFK on QF.

Quoting zeke (Reply 131):
SEA is not presently viable with a 77W.

I tend to agree. EWR is in a much better position to support 77W or multiple 77W flights. SEA has too many served Asian markets to support another 77W airline...currently ANA (changes to a 787 in Sept.) and occasionally EVA.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airdfw
Posted 2013-08-11 09:58:00 and read 13468 times.

Why can't AA or CX do the MIA-HKG or DFW-HKG through ANC (for a fuel stop), I mean with these ULH pairs, it would make sense to do a fuel stop, right? It would almost be a non stop flight then. I would rather have a fuel stop flight then have a change of flights at LAX or SFO.

[Edited 2013-08-11 09:58:42]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: trex8
Posted 2013-08-11 10:29:57 and read 13384 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 120):

Quoting trex8 (Reply 117):
But would CX be allowed traffic rights for YVR-MIA??

They were allowed to for JFK. So why not MIA?

For one thing there are US airlines flying JFK-YVR, if they got YVR-MIA rights there is no US (or canadian) competition.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-11 11:05:36 and read 13303 times.

why not just kill 2 birds at once by having CX launch HKG-NRT-MIA ?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX flyboy
Posted 2013-08-11 23:17:44 and read 12719 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 131):
Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 125):
There was a presentation last year listing potential new longhaul cities they are looking at and SEA was one of them.

SEA is not presently viable with a 77W.

Correct. Thats why they said they were waiting to send the A350 there.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: mdavies06
Posted 2013-08-12 03:33:23 and read 12395 times.

I wonder whether CX will launch EWR by adding an extra daily frequency on top of the current 4x to JFK or would they transfer one of their existing flights from JFK. 5 flights daily is a lot for a 15 hour route. I wonder why there is such a high demand and why DL or even AA is not flying this route!

5 flights a day will make CX the biggest non Canadian non European foreign carrier in NYC I am guessing.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: staralliance85
Posted 2013-08-12 04:10:44 and read 12320 times.

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 137):

I wonder whether CX will launch EWR by adding an extra daily frequency on top of the current 4x to JFK or would they transfer one of their existing flights from JFK. 5 flights daily is a lot for a 15 hour route. I wonder why there is such a high demand and why DL or even AA is not flying this route!

I really think DL should add JFK-HKG. They only have JFK-NRT and they rely on NRT for transfers in Asia. With UA having many non stops in Asia, I think DL should add this route. However, I think they will add SEA-HKG first.



At the moment, there is No need for AA to add JFK-HKG because they can heavily rely on their partnership with CX.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: usairways85
Posted 2013-08-12 05:13:36 and read 12140 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 130):
I'm surprised too that no one's talking about PHL ... the upcoming OneWorld mega hub!

Other than the NYC area ... PHL is probably best positioned to serve the eastern seaboard.

Currently PHL has an extremely small local market and probably loses a bunch to EWR. Also no one knows what role PHL will play in the domestic and international network, so I wouldn't exactly call it the upcoming OW mega hub.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-12 07:31:35 and read 11879 times.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 136):
Correct. Thats why they said they were waiting to send the A350 there.

I have doubts that the A350 is the correct-sized aircraft for SEA-HKG. The smaller Dreamliners would be more appropriate.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: flyinghippo
Posted 2013-08-12 09:57:14 and read 11637 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 130):
I'm surprised too that no one's talking about PHL ... the upcoming OneWorld mega hub!

Other than the NYC area ... PHL is probably best positioned to serve the eastern seaboard.

CX won't consider PHL b/c it doesn't have a big enough O/D market. If for connections to the eastern seaboard that's not served by JFK, CX already flies to ORD, which AA has plenty of non-stop flights to many cities in the US east coast.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-12 14:12:19 and read 11170 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 140):
I have doubts that the A350 is the correct-sized aircraft for SEA-HKG. The smaller Dreamliners would be more appropriate.

That depends. Is the problem lack of passenger demand? Is it low yields? Is it cargo?
If the problem is low yields but there's enough demand for both pax and cargo then the A350 is good because of its lower operating cost. The A350 is only bad afainst the 787 when you can't sell all the seats.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX Flyboy
Posted 2013-08-12 16:08:11 and read 10996 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 140):
Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 136):
Correct. Thats why they said they were waiting to send the A350 there.

I have doubts that the A350 is the correct-sized aircraft for SEA-HKG. The smaller Dreamliners would be more appropriate.

The A350-900 isn't exactly a huge aircraft. Don't forget who CX are and what we operate. Our 'smallest' plane is an A340. With a bit of cargo and passengers being fed from our network, plus the number of chinese residents in the SEA area, I am sure it can work.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-12 18:31:37 and read 10643 times.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 143):
The A350-900 isn't exactly a huge aircraft. Don't forget who CX are and what we operate. Our 'smallest' plane is an A340. With a bit of cargo and passengers being fed from our network, plus the number of chinese residents in the SEA area, I am sure it can work.

I suppose it could. But, again, I would definitely be surprised.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-08-12 21:22:23 and read 10320 times.

I'm a bit surprised at how skeptical many seem to be about SEA.

I personally think DL is more likely to do it first. I don't know whether or not that would deter CX, but SEA is an airport that sustains a large amount of service to Asia: NRT (x3), HND, KIX, ICN (x2), PEK (x2), PVG, TPE. Between the local market and feed from AS, SEA doesn't seem far-fetched at all to me for CX -- with a 77W, yeah, probably, but a 359 is quite a bit smaller, and also more efficient.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: cha747
Posted 2013-08-12 21:53:17 and read 10278 times.

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 141):
CX won't consider PHL b/c it doesn't have a big enough O/D market.

So have you been to Philadelphia's Chinatown or South Philly? The O & D for SE Asia connections are ginormous! The problem is that JFK has commanded this market. I'm sure bean counters have done the analysis, but I'm not going to be surprised if there is a PHL - SE Asia route sometime in the next 3-5 years. Who knew in 1989 that PHL would have such a robust transcon operation like it has today?!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: cipango
Posted 2013-08-12 23:32:35 and read 10125 times.

Does anyone know when the official announcement will be?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-12 23:54:23 and read 10143 times.

Quoting cipango (Reply 147):

Does anyone know when the official announcement will be?

Flight is loaded in GDS and bookable as of one hour ago.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: legacyins
Posted 2013-08-13 00:01:22 and read 10254 times.

Daily 3-class 77W to EWR from 01MAR14.

CX890 HKG1700 - 2100EWR 77W D
CX899 EWR0150 - 0540+1HKG 77W D

http://airlineroute.net/2013/08/13/cx-ewr-mar14/

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-08-13 00:15:12 and read 10105 times.

Wow ... three class only. It this the only US flight where CX won't have F?

While it's wasn't a big secret and it's not the most exciting route given their presence in the NYC area already it does make the most sense when you consider they are opening up a new crew base in NY soon. However, another big congrats to them for their continued expansion in the US!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: AF185
Posted 2013-08-13 00:59:01 and read 9950 times.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 150):
Wow ... three class only

I am surprised no F, since EWR will be quite business O&D oriented for CX...

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: hz747300
Posted 2013-08-13 00:59:56 and read 10051 times.

Boring...

Seattle would have been better for me (yes, it is all about me--actually HKG-PHX would be much, much better), this route was already done on UA, and UA is cheaper and its product is not terrible even if their flight attendants are not the friendliest. UA is especially cheaper in biz class. Curious to see how this route does.

Will the A350 be able to do HKG-BOS nonstop?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-13 01:19:26 and read 9985 times.

just as I initially suspected, CX reserving F only for JFK side

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: AA767LOVER
Posted 2013-08-13 02:17:21 and read 9900 times.

Yeah, EWR gets no respect.
I would have not have entirely ruled out BOS as there is quite a sizable Chinese population - BE SPECIFIC - not just Asian, but Chinese. 77W could easily do BOS-HKG nonstop or if you want a fifth freedom, throw in YYZ for measure. I'm quite sure American Eagle pax used to BOS-YYZ on RJs would be delighted to do BOS-YYZ on a 77W! I know I would!

MIA - For reasons already stated by others, the distance, cost opportunity, makes MIA unfeasible for the long haul. Arriving into MIA, how long would the plane have decent rest for? Where would they stop? YYZ is more likely than YVR. Shorter time layover, and shorter flying time would be more economical, but would take customers away from YYZ-MIA market on AA their oneworld partner. I would favor MIA if there actually a big enough demand.

SEA - Seriously, with the proximity to YVR, why would anyone consider flying SEA-HKG anyways? Is it much cheaper out of SEA than YVR? Also, the suggestion of a 343 frightens me. Worst econ seats. For a short hop from HKG-TPE is fine. But HKG-SEA is like saying, Gimme some hemmorhoids!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: fun2fly
Posted 2013-08-13 04:38:20 and read 9700 times.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 149):
Daily 3-class 77W to EWR from 01MAR14.

CX890 HKG1700 - 2100EWR 77W D
CX899 EWR0150 - 0540+1HKG 77W D

http://airlineroute.net/2013/08/13/c...ar14/

Replacing one of the JFK flights or in addition to? Any JFK gauge changes as a result?

If it is an addtitional NYC flight, that's pretty impressive what CX has done in a short time in that market and AA and DL have to be shaking their heads for not starting one themselves and UA has to be upset they didn't add a 2nd or first class on the route. Marketshare leader is CX on that route!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: NZ107
Posted 2013-08-13 05:24:05 and read 9544 times.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 155):

Additional. No JFK flights are changing.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-08-13 05:58:19 and read 9451 times.

and the destination is ........ Newark

oops already above.

nonetheless, nice addition to EWR

[Edited 2013-08-13 05:58:59]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-13 06:35:54 and read 9323 times.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 154):
I'm quite sure American Eagle pax used to BOS-YYZ on RJs would be delighted to do BOS-YYZ on a 77W! I know I would!

You could probably make a case to try a YVR tag-on for either BOS or MIA. YYZ would be a waste of a stop for an already well served market.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-08-13 07:09:32 and read 9248 times.

NYC - HKG sure going to be a busy market.

Between CX and UA, there will be 5 nonstops plus the 1 YVR one-stop

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: flyinghippo
Posted 2013-08-13 08:01:48 and read 9083 times.

Quoting cha747 (Reply 146):
So have you been to Philadelphia's Chinatown or South Philly? The O & D for SE Asia connections are ginormous! The problem is that JFK has commanded this market. I'm sure bean counters have done the analysis, but I'm not going to be surprised if there is a PHL - SE Asia route sometime in the next 3-5 years. Who knew in 1989 that PHL would have such a robust transcon operation like it has today?!

Yes - I own a property there. It's peanuts when comparing to the Asian population in the tri-state area. Having a decent Asian population there is one thing, but having a good population that travels frequently is another, especially traveling in J and F, and Philly just doesn't have that.

This would give UA some BIG competition as CX's product (hard and soft) in all classes are superior than UA. People flying out of EWR surely welcomes another choice when flying to HKG.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2013-08-13 08:27:29 and read 8985 times.

Lots of deserved caterwauling about Newark winning this 'contest,' which had to be the most underwhelming outcome of all. A week-long contest is the right thing to do if people will say 'Wow!' at the end of it. But Newark? Yawn. Might have just as well announced it and be done.

Now, if Newark wins the first one-way nonstop to Mars, we'll all say "Wow! About time someone sent them packing!"

    

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-13 08:42:31 and read 8923 times.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 150):
Wow ... three class only. It this the only US flight where CX won't have F?
Quoting AF185 (Reply 151):

I am surprised no F, since EWR will be quite business O&D oriented for CX...
Quoting a380787 (Reply 153):
just as I initially suspected, CX reserving F only for JFK side
Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 154):
Yeah, EWR gets no respect.

To all of the above I quoted.

This is just another example of how EWR is NOT a "premium airport" despite what a contingent on here argues. It simply isn't, thanks to UA keeping it cattle class.

It makes no sense to me how New Jersey, which is full of fortune 500 companies, doesn't rate F / premium services. I understand that hardly anyone living east of the Hudson river would prefer to use LGA/JFK, but that leaves at least a third of the NYC metro area underserved. I understand WHY things are the way they are (because of UA and legacy carrier decades old opinion of EWR as NOT a NYC airport). But I shake my head everytime another opportunity to bring EWR closer to par with JFK is missed.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-13 09:57:01 and read 8745 times.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 154):
SEA - Seriously, with the proximity to YVR, why would anyone consider flying SEA-HKG anyways? Is it much cheaper out of SEA than YVR? Also, the suggestion of a 343 frightens me. Worst econ seats. For a short hop from HKG-TPE is fine. But HKG-SEA is like saying, Gimme some hemmorhoids!

Actually yes...it probably would be significantly cheaper than YVR, considering all of the taxes the Canadians have to pay just of fly from point A to point B. SEA-HKG is most likely sustainable, but more with a smaller widebody like the A350 or 787. The 777-300ER or A340-300 would be more appropriate during the summer peak months...similar to what NH does on the SEA-NRT route.

I think we'll eventually find DL flying the SEA-HKG route with an A330-200. I don't think the 767-300ER has the legs for that flight. It could be a 777-200ER/LR.

Also, room at SEA's S-concourse during the peak international flight times is at a premium. The future shows an additional 4 or 5 gates in the A-Concourse allocated for international flights, but that's a bit down the road. I do think as more 787's and eventually A350's enter passenger service, I think SEA will see more and more international service over the next decade. That includes flights from south of the equator.

As much as CX's announcement for HKG-EWR was writing on the wall, I wanted to give SEA a little glimmer of hope for an earlier inauguration...kind of like NH's SEA-NRT route.

CX...SEA hopes to see you sooner rather than later!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-13 11:11:51 and read 8577 times.

Quoting AF185 (Reply 151):
I am surprised no F, since EWR will be quite business O&D oriented for CX...

Most businesses do not allow F class. It makes sense.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-13 11:33:26 and read 8545 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 162):
It makes no sense to me how New Jersey, which is full of fortune 500 companies, doesn't rate F / premium services.



Because most businesses use business class?..

SQ's EWR-SIN flight, which this sort of replaces, was all business class. Openskies which operates from EWR also is all business.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-13 11:50:09 and read 8501 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 162):
It makes no sense to me how New Jersey, which is full of fortune 500 companies, doesn't rate F / premium services.

Not just NJ - F is a rare dying breed

Between NYC (largest city in north america) and Tokyo (largest city in the world), we have (in terms of F seats) :

8 seats on JAL
16 seats on ANA (2x daily)
0 seats on DL
0 seats on UA
16 seats on AA going to HND (lord knows how they're filling those)

On the best day, you have 40 paid F seats between 2 of the largest GDP cities in the world.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-13 12:22:53 and read 8417 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 164):
Most businesses do not allow F class. It makes sense.

I'm sorry (for those that don't live in the NYC area and are not familiar with the market). I should have been more explicit.

New Jersey has some of the wealthiest counties in the country. Wealthy people live there. Just like wealthy people live in Manhattan, on Long Island and in Westchester County and CT who all use JFK because it is more convenient for them than EWR.

The wealthy people in New Jersey would have to trek over to JFK if they want "premium service" on flights to LAX/SFO, or if they want to fly in an F cabin on most intercontinental routes because there is no F offered at EWR. If one wasn't aware of the history at EWR with respect to how airlines view EWR (as "second class" in the NYC market), then it would be puzzling as to why this very affluent market is denied F.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 165):
Because most businesses use business class?..

SQ's EWR-SIN flight, which this sort of replaces, was all business class. Openskies which operates from EWR also is all business.

Thanks for trying to lead us on a tangent, but my comment was not about Business Class, it was about First Class and the lack of it at EWR.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 166):
Not just NJ - F is a rare dying breed

It doesn't seem to be dying over at JFK. In fact, seems like it is being reborn with the new AA F product to LAX/SFO.


How does one explain the fact that EWR is the ONLY U.S. airport served by CX without F when CX isn't moving to cut F from any of the other U.S. airports they serve?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-13 12:37:39 and read 8389 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 167):
It doesn't seem to be dying over at JFK. In fact, seems like it is being reborn with the new AA F product to LAX/SFO.

AA is also planning to cut F from their entire 772ER fleet when refurbs are scheduled, which will be many of their European and Latin American services out of JFK

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-08-13 12:50:16 and read 8347 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 167):
New Jersey has some of the wealthiest counties in the country. Wealthy people live there. Just like wealthy people live in Manhattan, on Long Island and in Westchester County and CT who all use JFK because it is more convenient for them than EWR.

It may very well be the case but they're not paying for it or there would be more than this:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 166):
On the best day, you have 40 paid F seats between 2 of the largest GDP cities in the world.

Way too few F class seats even from JFK. I think CX knows what they're doing. Besides, if you're a NJ resident most like you're flying UA, not CX.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-13 13:01:54 and read 8342 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 168):
AA is also planning to cut F from their entire 772ER fleet when refurbs are scheduled, which will be many of their European and Latin American services out of JFK

AA is using the 77W on JFK-LHR and JFK-GRU, so F will remain on those important international routes and likely will expand use of the 77W out of JFK. So F will remain an offering from AA ex-JFK intercontinental flights.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 169):
Way too few F class seats even from JFK. I think CX knows what they're doing. Besides, if you're a NJ resident most like you're flying UA, not CX

And you're flying UA because they are the only game in town, and now CX comes into one of the UA markets and what do they do? They offer the same lack of F that UA does out of EWR. Very disappointing.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: flyinghippo
Posted 2013-08-13 13:15:13 and read 8321 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 170):
And you're flying UA because they are the only game in town, and now CX comes into one of the UA markets and what do they do? They offer the same lack of F that UA does out of EWR. Very disappointing.

But I consider CX's J class a step above UA's J class, so people flying out of EWR to HKG will have a second (better, IMHO) premium service to choose from.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-13 13:35:59 and read 8284 times.

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 171):
But I consider CX's J class a step above UA's J class, so people flying out of EWR to HKG will have a second (better, IMHO) premium service to choose from.

No doubt it is an improvement over what EWR users had to choose from. But why does the airport serving the western half of the NYC metro area not rate an F cabin from CX when CX offers an F cabin on their flights from the airport serving the eastern half of the NYC metro area?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: zeke
Posted 2013-08-13 19:48:29 and read 7904 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 172):

If they can fill the seats they will be offered, if not, they will not be offered. CX is not a charity, it cannot put on F class seats with the hope someone maybe able to pay the return F class fare. Overbooking in J and free F class upgrades makes no business sense, nor does it make sense to have empty seats.

And this is not the F class that is seen domestically, CX would call that premium economy.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: flythere
Posted 2013-08-13 20:22:27 and read 7836 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned, being a major base of its OW alliance partner, AA. Flying to DFW would also plug into AA's network from there to Florida.
DFW would be the next one on CX's plan I would assume.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 23):
After losing AF, AZ, LO, QR, BR, MH, and SQ

Yes, you got the point! Not just SQ but also BR moving to JFK and MH withdrawn from US.

Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
A new city pair with daily 77W is services is a significant investment by the time 3 airframes, crews, ground service contracts etc are all in place. Now any company wanting to invest that sort of cash will want to see 10+% return on their investment, if they do not get that return, they may as well just invest the cash without having the risk exposure.

Very well-said. Starting a new intercontinental pair is really a huge investment, spare parts for the plane might be stored and a station manager/engineer had to be hired, etc. etc. But the synergy that bring in with the existing operations in JFK is just an icing on a cake for CX.

Quoting CX711 (Reply 126):
What about accessing MIA from Europe? I believe CX was granted rights to fly LHR to JFK which it never exercised, probably for commercial reasons.

I believe there is no point of serving MIA with one-stop given if CX's intention for MIA as a jumpboard to Latin America. There are plenty of existing one-stop options from HKG(or other East Asia cities) - Europe/MiddleEast - Latam.

[Edited 2013-08-13 20:29:53]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2013-08-13 21:40:26 and read 7687 times.

Wow, a great addition to EWR! Maybe we should consider changing the title of this thread or creating a new one.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-14 05:53:13 and read 7334 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 175):
Wow, a great addition to EWR! Maybe we should consider changing the title of this thread or creating a new one.

Indeed, EWR has had an interesting history with Asian carriers:

Singapore Air (mid '90s to present)
Started out with a daily 744 via AMS to SIN, later switched to an all Business class A340-500.

Korean Air (mid-'90s through 2001 or 2002)
Daily 744 to Seoul via BOS

Malaysian (late '90s through ?..)
Originally through Dubai with a 772, then they changed the stop over before dropping the route.

Phillipines Air ('90s through?..)

EVA (mid '90s through 2012)
Originally a 744 via YVR, then nonstop 77W

Cathy Pacific 2014

I think I'm forgetting one?..

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-08-14 07:46:53 and read 7260 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 176):
EVA (mid '90s through 2012)
Originally a 744 via YVR, then nonstop 77W

This route was through SEA, not YVR.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: EWRandMDW
Posted 2013-08-14 08:16:43 and read 7212 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 176):
Daily 744 to Seoul via BOS

I think this flight made a technical stop in ANC. To my knowledge, KE has never served BOS.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-08-14 09:27:02 and read 7119 times.

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 178):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 176):
Daily 744 to Seoul via BOS

I think this flight made a technical stop in ANC. To my knowledge, KE has never served BOS.

Though the BOS Seoul fight was this triangle route SEL-BOS-IAD-SEL

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-14 09:37:32 and read 7095 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 173):
If they can fill the seats they will be offered, if not, they will not be offered. CX is not a charity, it cannot put on F class seats with the hope someone maybe able to pay the return F class fare.

And where is the evidence that CX hasn't got enough paid F pax on EWR-HKG? They didn't even attempt EWR with an F cabin!

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: superjeff
Posted 2013-08-14 09:50:02 and read 7082 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned, being a major base of its OW alliance partner, AA. Flying to DFW would also plug into AA's network from there to Florida.
Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I'm surprised DFW isn't being mentioned, being a major base of its OW alliance partner, AA. Flying to DFW would also plug into AA's network from there to Florida.

Very true, especially since CX has some freight service at DFW, and since Qantas' route to BNE/SYD has been very successful.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: tsnamm
Posted 2013-08-14 12:00:08 and read 6941 times.

I think a big question is how will this affect UA's EWR/HKG service?Could possibly become a 787 market perhaps?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-14 12:14:05 and read 6920 times.

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 182):
I think a big question is how will this affect UA's EWR/HKG service?Could possibly become a 787 market perhaps?

UA will eventually deploy either the 787-9 or A350-1000 on EWR-HKG.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: tsnamm
Posted 2013-08-14 12:21:07 and read 6903 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 183):
UA will eventually deploy either the 787-9 or A350-1000 on EWR-HKG.



or bail out entirely ala EWR/IST?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-14 12:27:10 and read 6928 times.

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 184):

or bail out entirely ala EWR/IST?

They, through CO, have been on the route for 15 years. I think Hong Kong is more important to UA than IST which didn't last a year.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: fun2fly
Posted 2013-08-14 12:52:56 and read 6853 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 183):
UA will eventually deploy either the 787-9 or A350-1000 on EWR-HKG.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 185):
They, through CO, have been on the route for 15 years. I think Hong Kong is more important to UA than IST which didn't last a year.

I thought there was discussion of 2x daily when the 788's came online in the CO years due to BF demand. Probably a good example of where the delay of the 788 allowed a competitor to move into their market? for this long of a route, makes sense to get one of the new gen a/c on it in short order to save fuel $.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-14 13:30:57 and read 6800 times.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 186):
makes sense to get one of the new gen a/c on it in short order to save fuel $.

Not just the fuel savings, the passengers will benefit from higher humidity, lower pressure and noise. That should help after 16 hours.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: CX Flyboy
Posted 2013-08-14 18:08:20 and read 6592 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 180):
Quoting zeke (Reply 173):
If they can fill the seats they will be offered, if not, they will not be offered. CX is not a charity, it cannot put on F class seats with the hope someone maybe able to pay the return F class fare.

And where is the evidence that CX hasn't got enough paid F pax on EWR-HKG? They didn't even attempt EWR with an F cabin!

There is actually considerable market research done prior to launching a flight. Airlines like Cathay do not just "try it and see". They have determined that the 3-class approach is better for EWR. Remember, that the 3 class seating is 340pax vs 275 only for the 4-class 77Ws. Thats a lot of extra seats and they must have determined that the 3-class plane was more appropriate.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-08-14 18:16:17 and read 6578 times.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 188):
There is actually considerable market research done prior to launching a flight. Airlines like Cathay do not just "try it and see". They have determined that the 3-class approach is better for EWR. Remember, that the 3 class seating is 340pax vs 275 only for the 4-class 77Ws. Thats a lot of extra seats and they must have determined that the 3-class plane was more appropriate.

Thanks for the reply, though it is sad that EWRt is the only airport served by CX in the USA that doesn't rate a First Class cabin.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-08-14 18:31:20 and read 6540 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 167):
How does one explain the fact that EWR is the ONLY U.S. airport served by CX without F when CX isn't moving to cut F from any of the other U.S. airports they serve?

To be fair, most of the outbound premium traffic from New Jersey will probably fly UA due to being locked in through MileagePlus, corporate contracts etc. Inbound premium traffic HKG-NYC will be more skewed to JFK, due to broader global recognition as an "NYC" airport.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is a market for CX at EWR, but I'm not sure that F would be the right product on this route.

What's more, as pointed out up-thread, there is a global shift away from F. That is a fact. The USA is, arguably, behind the ball on that, although the US carriers approach to F is different. In most other parts of the world carriers (including CX) don't upgrade passengers unless absolutely necessary (i.e. overbooking) because it devalues the premium product.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: jfkgig
Posted 2013-08-14 19:26:44 and read 6418 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 179):
Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 178):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 176):
Daily 744 to Seoul via BOS

I think this flight made a technical stop in ANC. To my knowledge, KE has never served BOS.

Though the BOS Seoul fight was this triangle route SEL-BOS-IAD-SEL

I recall being on a KE flight around 2001 that went EWR-ORD-SEL.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-08-15 06:56:31 and read 6104 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 189):
Thanks for the reply, though it is sad that EWRt is the only airport served by CX in the USA that doesn't rate a First Class cabin.

If CX ever opens up HKG-SEA, you can bet your car and house that it won't have F either.

The F traffic of NJ (i'm guessing the pharmaceuticals) aren't exactly HKG-bound since HKG has never been a major pharm center.

But I blame a lot of people's perception on their branding too. Instead of calling it "New York EWR" they brand themselves as "Liberty International" ... and forgot that many international pax aren't smart enough to associate "Newark NJ" as part of NYC metro.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: anrec80
Posted 2013-08-15 22:41:54 and read 5621 times.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 192):
But I blame a lot of people's perception on their branding too. Instead of calling it "New York EWR" they brand themselves as "Liberty International" ... and forgot that many international pax aren't smart enough to associate "Newark NJ" as part of NYC metro.

When a pax wants Y fare to NYC for $20 less, don't underestimate their ability to realize that.  

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: flightsimboy
Posted 2013-08-21 18:43:17 and read 4814 times.

It's EWR.... The official announcement is on their website

Posted here

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/5851257/

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-08-21 18:52:36 and read 4781 times.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 194):
It's EWR.... The official announcement is on their website

Yes, welcome to the party. This was announced already one-week ago...

See discussions above..

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: flightsimboy
Posted 2013-08-21 18:58:16 and read 4763 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 195):
Yes, welcome to the party. This was announced already one-week ago...

See discussions above..

A bit of a late arrival to the party...I had been following it and looks like I fell of the bus lol.....well EWR it is  

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-08-21 20:29:22 and read 4670 times.

Meanwhile, DL has announced SEA-HKG. Of course, it is on an A332 which is considerably smaller than anything CX has or probably ever will have.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-22 09:58:09 and read 4384 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 197):
Meanwhile, DL has announced SEA-HKG. Of course, it is on an A332 which is considerably smaller than anything CX has or probably ever will have.

If CX wants to open up HKG-SEA I don't think DL would slow their plans down.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-22 15:24:48 and read 4129 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 197):
Meanwhile, DL has announced SEA-HKG. Of course, it is on an A332 which is considerably smaller than anything CX has or probably ever will have.

But not much smaller in total seats compared to CX longhaul 3-class A333s which Seatguru shows have 242 seats. DL A332s have either 239 (old configuration) or 234 (new configuration), a difference of only 3 to 8 seats.

I realize CX wouldn't use the A333 on SEA-HKG.

[Edited 2013-08-22 15:26:40]

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: psa1011
Posted 2013-08-22 15:34:31 and read 4092 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 199):
I realize CX wouldn't use the A333 on SEA-HKG.

Why is that?

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-22 15:44:31 and read 4095 times.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 200):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 199):
I realize CX wouldn't use the A333 on SEA-HKG.

Why is that?

Don't think the A333 has enough range for a 5,648 nm nonstop, especially with often very strong transpacific headwinds on the westbound trip. It's even a stretch for the A332. I believe the longest nonstop ever operated regularly by the A332 was AKL-LAX when QF used the A332 on that route. It's almost the same distance (5,652 nm) as SEA-HKG. Probably had some payload restrictions, and winds are less severe on the South Pacific routes.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2013-08-22 20:28:27 and read 3930 times.

It's a shame it's not BOS, but if HU gets approval, that's good enough for me. And if B6 goes to OneWorld, maybe we'll see them here down the road as well. Congrats to EWR though.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2013-08-23 01:31:45 and read 3716 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 198):
If CX wants to open up HKG-SEA I don't think DL would slow their plans down.

I didn't necessarily mean to suggest that... My comment was more aimed at those who seem to think SEA-HKG wouldn't be a viable market for any carrier.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 199):
But not much smaller in total seats compared to CX longhaul 3-class A333s which Seatguru shows have 242 seats.

Indeed. What I meant to say was smaller than anything CX has or will likely ever have that can be used on this route.

Topic: RE: Cathay Pacific To Announce New US Destination
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-08-23 04:49:25 and read 3617 times.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 203):
didn't necessarily mean to suggest that... My comment was more aimed at those who seem to think SEA-HKG wouldn't be a viable market for any carrier.

It remains to be seen if SEA-HKG is a viable route, it's been tried a couple times before by UA and NWA. What I'm pretty sure of though is that it's not big enough for two carriers.


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