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Topic: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-08-26 04:08:49 and read 11913 times.

According to the GDS, effective 10 February 2014, EK will operate 6 weekly flights between DXB and TPE

EK 366 DXB - TPE 0020 1205 Sa
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0225 1430 We
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0340 1525 Su
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0425 1615 Mo, Tu, Th

EK 367 TPE - DXB 2315 0510+1 ex - Fr

Aircraft: B777-300ER

[Edited 2013-08-26 04:12:07]

[Edited 2013-08-26 04:16:35]

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: QatarA340
Posted 2013-08-26 04:17:57 and read 11872 times.

Does this mean, EK will have to rebrand one of its aircraft like KLM Asia?

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-08-26 04:48:42 and read 11656 times.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):
Does this mean, EK will have to rebrand one of its aircraft like KLM Asia?

I wouldn't think so, several airlines serve Taiwan and China, who do not rebrand their service. UA, DL come to mind, and soon to be HA.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-08-26 05:22:22 and read 11484 times.

also EK cargo fly there in full livery since over a decade, so they will become the first Middle east carrier to fly passenger service there.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-26 05:32:12 and read 11435 times.

This is a good move by EK targeting a niche market that is lacking in long haul service connectivity westbound. A B77W is being used here from the get go as TPE market is big for cargo hence very much warranted.

With regards to the market sizes over the past 1 year from TPE to MENA and Europe which are relevant to EK to target, they are as follows:

DXB 12,000 (in time expect major stimulation on this market segment from 2015 onwards as more awareness is built up)
CAI 10,000
Minimal demand to other GCC/MENA markets hence not worth mentioning

CDG 110,000
FRA 100,000
LON 70,000 (LHR and LGW combined)
AMS 60,000
VIE 45,000
MXP 25,000
FCO 25,000
ZRH 20,000
MUC 20,000
IST 19,000
MAD 10,000
BCN 10,000
CPH 9,000
GRU 9,000
MAN 7,000
GVA 7,000
ARN 6,000

I remember in the mid 1990s my uncle who was Hertz Manager for GCC based out of DXB used to fly BR DXB-AMS every summer for cycling tour trips on board their B747-400 Combi.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-08-26 05:50:17 and read 11337 times.

A long time coming; I think this will be a successful route for EK, with potential to add an all-freighter service in due course.

I can see this route being a big success.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: JoKeR
Posted 2013-08-26 05:57:40 and read 11306 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):

Don't forget traffic to Africa from TPE, particularly to JNB and CPT

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-08-26 06:31:22 and read 11125 times.

Any reason the outbound schedule is so asymmetric? Slot restrictions in TPE? In particular the day 5 departure time is not good. I am sure that EK will work hard to obtain daily flights with a consistent schedule.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-08-26 06:44:28 and read 11027 times.



Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
with potential to add an all-freighter service in due course.

EK Cargo have been flying frieghters to Taipei since 2001, initially with an unbranded 742 till mid 2000s and then the full livery 744F.

[Edited 2013-08-26 06:46:23]

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: factsonly
Posted 2013-08-26 07:45:05 and read 10664 times.

Does anyone wish to clarify the EK flight times on DXB-TPE-DXB versus DXB-HKG-DXB, they seem to differ rather a lot:

- dep. DXB 00:20 - arr TPE 12:05 EK366 non-stop Emirates 7h 45min.
- dep. TPE 23:15 - arr. DXB 05:10 EK367 non-stop Emirates 9h 55min.

That is a 2hr 10m difference in non-stop flight time going east and west.

Now compare DXB-HKG-DXB:

- dep. DXB 02:55 - arr. HKG 14:30 EK382 non-stop Emirates 7h 35min.
- dep. HKG 00:35 - arr. DXB 05:35 EK381 non-stop Emirates 9h 00min.

EK to HKG has 1hr 25min. variation in east and west flying.

So TPE is 10 minutes further from DXB than HKG, but it lies 55 min. further going back to DXB.

That sure is a dragon's wind .......or something else!

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: JoKeR
Posted 2013-08-26 08:55:46 and read 10363 times.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 9):
So TPE is 10 minutes further from DXB than HKG, but it lies 55 min. further going back to DXB.

Perhaps TPE originating flights have to detour around Chinese airspace?

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: HeeseokKoo
Posted 2013-08-26 09:10:56 and read 10293 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
Any reason the outbound schedule is so asymmetric? Slot restrictions in TPE?

I don't think either DXB or TPE has slot problem. It could be the crowded Chinese airspace issue toward flights in/out of TPE.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: AT
Posted 2013-08-26 09:37:26 and read 10172 times.

Am curious, will this be a 3-class service or 2?

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-08-26 09:54:33 and read 10074 times.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 9):
That sure is a dragon's wind .......or something else!

Pretty sure the flight can't overfly Chinese airspace.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: anonms
Posted 2013-08-26 11:11:15 and read 9319 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
I wouldn't think so, several airlines serve Taiwan and China, who do not rebrand their service. UA, DL come to mind, and soon to be HA.

The closest thing to a flag carrier that the US ever had was Pan Am, so none of the US carriers were ever subject to that rule.

But even then, I think the PRC stopped caring (JL got rid of JAA, for instance), anyway.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: migair54
Posted 2013-08-26 12:04:14 and read 8835 times.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
According to the GDS, effective 10 February 2014, EK will operate 6 weekly flights between DXB and TPE

EK 366 DXB - TPE 0020 1205 Sa
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0225 1430 We
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0340 1525 Su
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0425 1615 Mo, Tu, Th

EK 367 TPE - DXB 2315 0510+1 ex - Fr

It must be some restriction, otherwise i don´t see any logic for such a crazy schedule towards TPE, you can see the return schedule is fix for all days.

Quoting AT (Reply 12):
Am curious, will this be a 3-class service or 2?

I think it will be a 3 class service, not much options to fly there, so i´m sure they can attract first class travelers easily.


Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
Pretty sure the flight can't overfly Chinese airspace.

it must be that, otherwise with example of HKG we can see that this difference can´t be because of the wind, so a bit of touristic tour over south east Asia for the pax. Something like the El Al flight to Bangkok.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: SVJ77W
Posted 2013-08-26 12:14:25 and read 8734 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):
Does this mean, EK will have to rebrand one of its aircraft like KLM Asia?

I wouldn't think so, several airlines serve Taiwan and China,

Sorry but whats the story behind this? I always wondered why there was a KLM Asia. Seems this is got something to between Taiwan and China?

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-26 12:22:07 and read 8646 times.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 15):
I think it will be a 3 class service, not much options to fly there, so i´m sure they can attract first class travelers easily.

Its a 3 class B77W but non-Suite service.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 6):
Don't forget traffic to Africa from TPE, particularly to JNB and CPT

JNB is 12,000
CPT is 2,000

After CPT, the biggest demand from TPE to Africa is LOS at 1,100 only hence very small demand from TPE to Africa.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: anonms
Posted 2013-08-26 12:47:44 and read 8364 times.

Quoting SVJ77W (Reply 16):
Sorry but whats the story behind this? I always wondered why there was a KLM Asia. Seems this is got something to between Taiwan and China?

PRC wouldn't let any flag carriers operating into Taiwan operate into China, thus subfleets such as KLM Asia, British Asia Airways, Japan Asia Airlines, Australia Asia Airlines, Swissair Asia, and Air France Aise.

On that note, all CA planes used in cross-strait flights lack the PRC flag. None of CI's planes have the ROC flag anymore.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-08-26 13:00:12 and read 8236 times.

Am I the only one who finds this surprising and even shocking?!? Dubai/UAE/EK has been trying to garner more rights to mainland China for years. This will make those negotiations much more challenging. In many ways, I see this as EK capitulating on the hope of more mainland China rights for at least 5 years. Probably not a bad call with China finally slowing down due to the GFC. But there is a risk. The PRC likes to bully and will punish by denying air service rights... but that isn't much of a threat if they won't open markets anyway...   

In my opinion, EK could easily serve another dozen Chinese mainland cities. But since that isn't allowed, pursue what is open.

Quoting 777way (Reply 3):
so they will become the first Middle east carrier to fly passenger service there.

Not a bad niche to be in. Not the top city in Asia for EK to grow to IMHO, but since the others are blocked by bilateral air service restrictions, this is a good next addition.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
This is a good move by EK targeting a niche market that is lacking in long haul service connectivity westbound.

   This will give CX quite some competition. Only on a few routes...but enough. I'm not thinking EK will be competitive to any destination directly served from HKG or possibly even BKK. But this will help reduce Taipei's isolation.

Quoting SVJ77W (Reply 16):
Seems this is got something to between Taiwan and China?

  

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-26 14:02:14 and read 7751 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
Am I the only one who finds this surprising and even shocking?!? Dubai/UAE/EK has been trying to garner more rights to mainland China for years. This will make those negotiations much more challenging. In many ways, I see this as EK capitulating on the hope of more mainland China rights for at least 5 years. Probably not a bad call with China finally slowing down due to the GFC. But there is a risk. The PRC likes to bully and will punish by denying air service rights... but that isn't much of a threat if they won't open markets anyway. In my opinion, EK could easily serve another dozen Chinese mainland cities. But since that isn't allowed, pursue what is open.

Actually UAE-China just signed a more liberal air bilateral accord last week giving EK/EY etc more rights to secondary Chinese cities. See below:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-c...al-expand-air-services-514425.html

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: lukeyboy95
Posted 2013-08-26 14:05:36 and read 7723 times.

Quoting anonms (Reply 18):
PRC wouldn't let any flag carriers operating into Taiwan operate into China, thus subfleets such as KLM Asia, British Asia Airways, Japan Asia Airlines, Australia Asia Airlines, Swissair Asia, and Air France Aise.

Nice to know PRC is/was being run by hormonal teenage girls, pathetic.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: anonms
Posted 2013-08-26 18:37:15 and read 6380 times.

Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 21):
Nice to know PRC is/was being run by hormonal teenage girls, pathetic.

You'd love SQ, then, because they told the PRC to suck it and flew into Taiwan with their normal livery anyway.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-08-26 19:24:07 and read 6133 times.

Let's see how long before they go double daily or upgrade it to A380.

Quoting anonms (Reply 22):
You'd love SQ, then, because they told the PRC to suck it and flew into Taiwan with their normal livery anyway.

It's not just SQ, there's a bunch of other airlines who fly to both PRC & Taiwan under the same name, I wonder why only European carriers need an Asian subsidiary in order to fly to PRC & Taiwan?

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-08-26 19:43:44 and read 6036 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 20):
Actually UAE-China just signed a more liberal air bilateral accord last week giving EK/EY etc more rights to secondary Chinese cities. See below:

Wow, I could have been a bit more off, but not much!      

Let's see, of the busiest Chinese airports, the one's listed:

#15 Urumqi
#20 Zengzhou
#38 Yinchuan
#43 Xining
#53 Kashgar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_China

But no CTU, KMG, XIY, CSX, NKG, or WUH. All more valuable, in my opinion, for air traffic rights. Yes, worth something, but none of the first half dozen I would have picked. How many years has EK been trying to expand China service? And this is the reward? Its not nothing, but there are details I would want to know:
1. How many to EY/EK?
2. What frequency rights? 7X/week to each or more/less?

So I still think there will be consequences for TPE... But will benefit more short term launching this route than not.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-08-26 20:07:04 and read 6147 times.

While I agree that these aren't the most lucrative markets in PRC, I wouldn't right them off completely.

Zhengzhou - second largest inland city after Wuhan, and after Chengdu, Chongqin, Xi'an, and Wuhan, is on of the largest inland economic centres. Perhaps not suitable for daily flights straight away, but a nice niche for 3x weekly that even AY hasn't discovered yet.

Urumqi - ditto, first mover advantage. While still a relatively small city, Urumqi is a very rapidly developing as an economic and industrial centre. 3x weekly A330 would allow EK to really get a foot in the door.

Kashgar - probably not an EK market, but could be an interesting addition for FlyDubai, with some ethnic traffic to Pakistan, and possibly religious traffic to KSA.

Unfortunately I'm struggling to see any role for Xining and Yinchuan, although they will still be useful rights to have in your back pocket as they will no doubt become more viable destinations over the next 5-10 years.

Let's be honest about this, if anyone can make these markets work then it is EK!

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: winglets747
Posted 2013-08-26 20:45:25 and read 5975 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
Am I the only one who finds this surprising and even shocking?!? Dubai/UAE/EK has been trying to garner more rights to mainland China for years. This will make those negotiations much more challenging. In many ways, I see this as EK capitulating on the hope of more mainland China rights for at least 5 years. Probably not a bad call with China finally slowing down due to the GFC. But there is a risk. The PRC likes to bully and will punish by denying air service rights

Whoa - jumped way too much there. China-Taiwan direct flights are occurring, aviation ties are strong, and China is aware Taipei is a different aviation market.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 25):
Zhengzhou - second largest inland city after Wuhan, and after Chengdu, Chongqin, Xi'an, and Wuhan, is on of the largest inland economic centres. Perhaps not suitable for daily flights straight away, but a nice niche for 3x weekly that even AY hasn't discovered yet.

Zhengzhou for cargo (iPhones, iPads) maybe but pax flights - not anytime soon.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-08-26 20:54:50 and read 6024 times.

Quoting winglets747 (Reply 26):
not anytime soon

I disagree.

First, EK are no stranger to flying half full planes if they can fill the belly to full. If they perceive enough cargo revenue then they will do it, and just being in the market will allow them to pick up whatever traffic is going.

Second, this is not a small city, and one which is developing very quickly. This is, in a sense, the perfect market for EK. While the market might be small in absolute terms, add together people flying from UK, Germany, EU, GCC, Africa and you might get enough people together. EK is the master of this. While it is a small market, if you can get enough people who market cr*p in the EU to fly J a couple of times a year to visit their suppliers and factories then you can start to gain traction.

Note I'm only suggesting a flight, say, 3x per week.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-08-26 21:12:54 and read 5891 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):

Not for nothing but HA has been flying to TPE now for almost 2 months  

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-08-26 22:21:18 and read 5568 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 25):
While I agree that these aren't the most lucrative markets in PRC, I wouldn't right them off completely.

I'm not writing them off completely. But for how long was EK campaigning for for rights to China? I'm all for service to these cities. But two of these wouldn't have made my list for the first two dozen cities EK serves in China.

But they will do well and make money.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 25):
et's be honest about this, if anyone can make these markets work then it is EK!

   I have no doubt EK will make money. I'm very curious how many rights go to EY though...

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: winglets747
Posted 2013-08-26 23:02:07 and read 5321 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):
If they perceive enough cargo revenue then they will do it, and just being in the market will allow them to pick up whatever traffic is going.

I don't disagree with how EK works, as you say, but I differ on your assessment of Zhengzhou. There is already lots of freight capacity and Zhengzhou isn't a matter of getting many suppliers. There also remains an overall weakness in cargo profitability.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):
This is, in a sense, the perfect market for EK. While the market might be small in absolute terms, add together people flying from UK, Germany, EU, GCC, Africa and you might get enough people together. EK is the master of this. While it is a small market, if you can get enough people who market cr*p in the EU to fly J a couple of times a year to visit their suppliers and factories then you can start to gain traction.

Zhengzhou nuances: manufacturing not being done directly by Apple but through Foxconn. Manufacturing still concentrated around Guangzhou - moving west but slowly.

Good Chinese report out there if you can get it showing just how strongly Zhengzhou is tied to Apple.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: MIAspotter
Posted 2013-08-26 23:50:31 and read 5077 times.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0020 1205 Sa
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0225 1430 We
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0340 1525 Su
EK 366 DXB - TPE 0425 1615 Mo, Tu, Th

EK 367 TPE - DXB 2315 0510+1 ex - Fr

23:15? that´s a pretty long layover, that plane can easily do a short tag-on to MNL or even Japan in that time.

MIAspotter

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-08-27 01:39:16 and read 4511 times.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 31):
23:15? that´s a pretty long layover, that plane can easily do a short tag-on to MNL or even Japan in that time

Don't count on it. The schedule is what it is for reasons of DXB connectivity.

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: davidho1985
Posted 2013-08-27 01:41:14 and read 4506 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 31):23:15? that´s a pretty long layover, that plane can easily do a short tag-on to MNL or even Japan in that time
Don't count on it. The schedule is what it is for reasons of DXB connectivity.

Who will fly from MNL/ Japan to their destination via Taipei and then Dubai

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: AT
Posted 2013-08-27 08:21:02 and read 3411 times.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 17):
Its a 3 class B77W but non-Suite service.

Oh I thought that all 77Ws with First now had the suites. Is the non-suite F the 2 x 2 x 2 layout that's also in the 777-300s?

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-08-27 08:38:55 and read 3372 times.

yes that has been updated now across all GDS systems as when EK had non-suite service, the F class was filed as F where as the suites service was filed as "P" thus giving a clear hint what type of product to expect.

I have now checked across the board on Sabre on many EK Africa Asia EU USA flights operated with the B77W and all show F class only and none "P" class so the GDS system has been updated with the F class product on board the B77W being the Suites version.

my apologies

Topic: RE: Emirates Announces TPE From 10FEB2014
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-08-27 08:59:13 and read 3300 times.

Quoting winglets747 (Reply 26):
Zhengzhou for cargo (iPhones, iPads) maybe but pax flights

Etihad cargo served the place for a few years in the mid 2000s with A300F and EK cargo served Dalian if no one knew.


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