Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5854677/

Topic: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2013-08-25 19:17:42 and read 12693 times.

First time I have seen a video of what it looks like from the ground when a guide plane and then a DC10 comes over your house for a drop. Quite an experience, to which the reaction of the videographer and friends attests.

This from the current Yosemite fire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StbmiJTgbzo

And one remarkable photo from USA Today: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c726...76504981003-utahfire081413-004.jpg

[Edited 2013-08-25 19:27:00]

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-08-25 19:31:51 and read 12632 times.

Wow, excellent find! I don't know what would concern me more, the wildfires or the DC-10 LITERALLY flying past my house!  

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-08-26 03:34:53 and read 12117 times.

Yes, I have seen video of the DC10 tanker attacking fires in Colorado before. It is a pretty cool sight.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-08-26 04:20:57 and read 11981 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):

What would concern me even more is if a DC-10 flew over me that low and there was no forest fire!!!

She's still very cool looking. I have to wonder if I've been on that DC-10 in its previous life?

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: LLA001
Posted 2013-08-26 04:51:40 and read 11880 times.

Was the first aircraft leaving marks for DC-10 to target ?

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2013-08-26 06:27:07 and read 11695 times.

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 4):

Yes. CalFire uses a lead aircraft to show them the route and drop zone. So when the videographer on that video sees the ouff of smoke out the lead plane's back, there's kind of sn "uh-oh" reaction, because he knows what that means.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: rcair1
Posted 2013-08-26 06:51:57 and read 11611 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
Wow, excellent find! I don't know what would concern me more, the wildfires or the DC-10 LITERALLY flying past my house!

They must be dropping a long term retardant. These retardants are effective even when the water has dried out - however, I've not seen this kind of application too often. This appears to be some miles from the fire. In addition - if I were the videographer, I would be worried and packing. There is a lot of unburned fuel between them and the fire. If they are dropping there - either they have a lot of money to spend or they have a realistic expectation that the fire will reach that location. You base your actions on "current and expected fire behavior".
Honestly - based on what you can see in that video of the topography and fuel load - if anything but creepy ground fire comes through - that retardant line will not hold.
I'm actually a little baffled by the drop - which means there probably is information I don't have. It could be a political drop.

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 4):
Was the first aircraft leaving marks for DC-10 to target ?

The lead plane is directing the DC-10 and the smoke signifies where to drop. This is typical for larger air tankers.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: rcair1
Posted 2013-08-26 07:07:03 and read 11541 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Thread starter):
And one remarkable photo from USA Today: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c726...4.jpg

That is a pretty amazing photo. I'm sure it was taken by a long lens and it has been enlarged a lot. I'm sure the a/c is a lot farther away from the house/hill than it appears. Still very impressive.

Here is an interesting discussion of the process of carding (approving) the DC-10. This is not dated, so I don't know when it occurred.
http://www.section2wildfire.com/id29.html

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: winstonlegthigh
Posted 2013-08-26 07:22:08 and read 11471 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Thread starter):
And one remarkable photo from USA Today: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c726...4.jpg

I know it's probably a combination of poor picture quality and the unlikely sight of a DC-10 at nearly ground level (just an illusion, I'm sure it's higher than it looks), but there are terrible photoshop jobs that look more believable than this. Thanks for linking to this great image.

Glad to see a DC-10 being put to good use. The longer they (and the MD-11) stay in the sky, the better.

[Edited 2013-08-26 07:36:51]

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: rcair1
Posted 2013-08-26 09:17:06 and read 11192 times.

I just posted a new thread in the non-av forum on aviation use and the High Park fire (Colorado - 2012). While it has aviation aspects, it is more of a non-av thread.

Hope you find it interesting.

A/C Used In Firefighting And The High Park Fire. (by rcair1 Aug 26 2013 in Non Aviation)

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2013-08-26 11:40:46 and read 9242 times.

Snappy marketing piece for the 10 Tanker, but contains some cool video. Have to wonder how it is fighting the downdrafts while flying so low along these ridgelines. Some gutsy piloting indeed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQwZQrDOGRk

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: rcair1
Posted 2013-08-26 12:37:31 and read 8262 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
Snappy marketing piece for the 10 Tanker,

Yes - it is - but what is shows it shows nicely is the door drop system configuration. Many feel this is a better system for effective drop than the pump out system in other of the nextgen systems. It can deliver the retardant in a more dense salvo that penetrates canopy better.

I think time will tell on the effectiveness of this type of VLT or ULT tanker.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2013-08-26 13:37:10 and read 7232 times.

Doesn't Evergreen still have a B-742 fire fighting tanker? Why isn't that used in conjunction with the DC-10 fire fighting tanker? The Yosemite fire is pretty big, about the size of the City of Chicago.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2013-08-26 13:39:48 and read 7200 times.

Evergreen isn't going to be active this season. Forest Service finally offered a contract, but Evergreen decided it was too late in the fire season to pay to rush the a/c through a C-check to reactivate it with no guarantee of any actual revenue. If the USFS commits earlier for the next fire season, then they'll have it then.

By the way, when I was talking about navigating downdrafts along ridge lines, look at this piloting... Wow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zID2xMarrDU

[Edited 2013-08-26 13:48:49]

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: rcair1
Posted 2013-08-26 14:06:27 and read 6764 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 13):
By the way, when I was talking about navigating downdrafts along ridge lines, look at this piloting...

Man - this looks a bit dicey to me - pucker factor for sure. I think a lot of it is the perspective from the long lens, but using the wingspan as a yardstick they looked to be below 300ft. Later videos here give you a better perspective of that they were dropping on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaUDs48h2ns

Quite impressive.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-08-26 14:28:19 and read 6466 times.

This is a cool video from a C-130 fighting the same fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_eGiGG1B-Q

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Doesn't Evergreen still have a B-742 fire fighting tanker? Why isn't that used in conjunction with the DC-10 fire fighting tanker? The Yosemite fire is pretty big, about the size of the City of Chicago.

The 742 never got carded by the USFS, IIRC.

[Edited 2013-08-26 14:28:43]

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2013-08-26 16:31:11 and read 5141 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Doesn't Evergreen still have a B-742 fire fighting tanker? Why isn't that used in conjunction with the DC-10 fire fighting tanker?

Here is the USDA Forest Service firefighting aviation page. http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/aviation/

I hate to think of the cost charged for a 74X. A standard rate reimbursable schedule I saw shows roughly $8,500.00 an hour for a C-130. I'm sure it keeps going north from there.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: dragon6172
Posted 2013-08-26 16:37:52 and read 5055 times.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 6):
They must be dropping a long term retardant. These retardants are effective even when the water has dried out - however, I've not seen this kind of application too often. This appears to be some miles from the fire. In addition - if I were the videographer, I would be worried and packing. There is a lot of unburned fuel between them and the fire. If they are dropping there - either they have a lot of money to spend or they have a realistic expectation that the fire will reach that location. You base your actions on "current and expected fire behavior".
Honestly - based on what you can see in that video of the topography and fuel load - if anything but creepy ground fire comes through - that retardant line will not hold.
I'm actually a little baffled by the drop - which means there probably is information I don't have. It could be a political drop.

That drop came last Thursday or Friday I believe. They were making drops in a line between the fire and the city of Tuolumne. When they talk of 4500 structures being threatened by the fire, the majority of those are in Tuolumne city and county, so that was the big push the first couple of days to put some sort of "barrier" down.
http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/CASTF/2013-08-17-1950-Rim/picts/2013_08_26-14.11.21.961-CDT.jpeg

I believe the east-west valley that starts three grid squares down from the legend in the above map is where you are seeing this drop. You can see Tuolumne just below the legend box. How effective these drops are remains to be seen. You can see the fire has been spreading slower, but I'm not sure that has much to do with these drops.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: RCoulter
Posted 2013-08-26 17:14:46 and read 4693 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 15):
The 742 never got carded by the USFS, IIRC.

Yes it did, Tanker 979 was used on some fires in 2009 and 2010.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2013-08-26 18:07:50 and read 4225 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 15):
The 742 never got carded by the USFS, IIRC.
http://fireaviation.com/2013/08/22/e...lability-of-their-747-supertanker/

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2013-08-26 18:33:23 and read 3960 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
I have to wonder if I've been on that DC-10 in its previous life?

Tanker 910 N450AX was delivered to National Airlines in 75 and also wore the colors of Pan Am, American, Hawaiian, Omni before joining 10Tanker in 2005

Tanker 911 N17085 was delivered to Finnair in 1975 and jumped to a number of foreign carriers before coming to Continental Airlines, Omni and 10 Tanker.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-08-26 21:12:12 and read 3368 times.

Quoting RCoulter (Reply 18):
Yes it did, Tanker 979 was used on some fires in 2009 and 2010.
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 19):
http://fireaviation.com/2013/08/22/e...lability-of-their-747-supertanker/

I stand corrected. Thanks guys.

By the way, when that Evergreen tanker was flying, they'd do practice drops near MZJ. You could see the drop zone quite clearly on Google Earth. Not sure if the vegetation has regrown yet or not though...

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: Aloha717200
Posted 2013-08-27 00:38:35 and read 3145 times.

I saw that very same DC-10 in person at PIH a couple of weeks ago! It was positively enourmous at such a small facility, and when I saw it on approach to our airport I couldnt believe it. What a magnificent craft.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: 1400mph
Posted 2013-08-27 00:48:33 and read 3126 times.

They don't build 'em like they used to do they.

The DC-10 is an amazingly photogenic aircraft.

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: studedave
Posted 2013-08-27 09:33:07 and read 2726 times.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 20):
Tanker 910 N450AX was delivered to National Airlines in 75 and also wore the colors of Pan Am, American, Hawaiian, Omni before joining 10Tanker in 2005

Wait-- so you are saying that there is a chance that Tanker 910 *might* be the bird I had my first flight on?

National Airlines flew my Family between Sea-Tac and LAX that night a DC-10 lost an engine over Chicago. I was about eight years old so, no- I did not get the reg of our bird. My brother did not want to go, but once we got to LAX- he did not want to get off the plane!!! Somewhere I'll bet I still have the playing cards they gave us...





StudeDave

Topic: RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2013-08-27 11:36:35 and read 2570 times.

Quoting studedave (Reply 24):
Wait-- so you are saying that there is a chance that Tanker 910 *might* be the bird I had my first flight on?

Delivery date Airline Registration
06/25/1975 National Airlines N69NA
01/07/1980 Pan Am N69NA
11/25/1983 American Airlines N161AA
01/09/1996 Hawaiian Airlines N161AA
11/08/1997 Omni Air International N450AX
01/01/2005 10 Tanker Air Carrier N450AX

https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-dc10-46942.htm


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/