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Topic: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: Atrude777
Posted 2013-09-01 16:22:53 and read 9679 times.

I was browsing both wiki and AA.com for potential route changes at STL and was surprised to see the following...

Beginning November 21st, 2013, American Eagle will be flying routes from STL to

LAX
ORD
LGA
DCA

LAX was the huge shocker for me! Is this due to MD80 retirements so instead of bringing in the Boeing 737-800 they'd downgrade to Regional Jet Service?

DFW remains mainline though not sure of the aircraft, and it was mentioned in another thread that MIA would see a Boeing 737-800 flight. No more 757's in STL now?

IF, a big IF the merger goes through between US and AA, any hope I had for STL was certainly dashed with the announcement of the Eagle Flying.

Though it makes sense, the pilot base in STL was closed once AA filed CH 11, no reason to keep the scope clause and mainline going between the pilot bases.

Source:

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/newServiceRoutes.jsp

Alex

[Edited 2013-09-01 16:34:54]

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: PC12Fan
Posted 2013-09-01 16:30:17 and read 9649 times.

Not surprised at all. I'll reserve what I really want to say about AA here since I've paid the price before. But they are getting closer to what I predicted here a while back. Soon enough, AA will go all RJ's out of STL eventually. To think we had heavy iron out of here for the longest time. So incredibly sad.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: BHMNONREV
Posted 2013-09-01 16:41:44 and read 9582 times.

Does this mean all mainline will be taken over by Eagle or just selected flights? I cant imagine an all Eagle operation on both ORD and LAX. Can anyone else provide some addional insight?

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: TUSAA
Posted 2013-09-01 16:50:12 and read 9528 times.

No AE between STL-LAX.....still showing MD83s as far as March.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: PC12Fan
Posted 2013-09-01 17:01:29 and read 9474 times.

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 3):

That along with the announcement that 738 will serve MIA and DFW. But I still predict the inevitable.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: Atrude777
Posted 2013-09-01 17:08:27 and read 9422 times.

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 3):
No AE between STL-LAX.....still showing MD83s as far as March.

Good! Wonder why AA.com states otherwise in their announcement...can't imagine a CR7 flying that route profitably.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 4):

That along with the announcement that 738 will serve MIA and DFW. But I still predict the inevitable.

Well STL-MIA goes to three daily, all operated by Boeing 737-800's I don't see any 757's for now...

DFW seems to be one Boeing 737-800, Flight 1577, rest MD80's.

Wow..so weird to see 738's back again in STL. Last time we saw this scheduled was 2003, when it flew BOS-STL-SNA, and MCO-STL-LAX if I am not mistaken.

Alex

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: TUSAA
Posted 2013-09-01 17:28:57 and read 9304 times.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 5):
Good! Wonder why AA.com states otherwise in their announcement...can't imagine a CR7 flying that route profitably.

If AA were to downsize capacity between STL-LAX im sure they would opt for A319s vs Eagle.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: BHMNONREV
Posted 2013-09-01 17:34:27 and read 9277 times.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 5):
Well STL-MIA goes to three daily, all operated by Boeing 737-800's I don't see any 757's for now...

DFW seems to be one Boeing 737-800, Flight 1577, rest MD80's.

So the 757 will finally disappear from the STL landscape, save for the odd one from DL.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
To think we had heavy iron out of here for the longest time. So incredibly sad.

So true. WN must be having a much worse effect on AA than I would have ever anticipated  

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: Lambertman
Posted 2013-09-01 17:43:05 and read 9238 times.

Well, what can you say? The butts aren't in the AA seats. I'm not the only St. Louisan who goes out of their way to avoid flying them and at this point the remaining TW frequent fliers are now almost certainly converted to WN.

It's incredibly unfortunate that its come down to this, but we're really pretty lucky that Southwest has chose to remain committed to the market.

Speaking of heavy metal, I see three right in that picture! A 767 at C-2? Don't see that everyday.

http://flickriver.com/photos/mss2400/3512921018/

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: steex
Posted 2013-09-01 21:21:02 and read 8655 times.

Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):
Beginning November 21st, 2013, American Eagle will be flying routes from STL to

LAX
ORD
LGA
DCA

I can't find any Eagle flights on STL-LAX, but do see the others. Still, I think it's a bit of an overstatement to say that STL become primarily American Eagle ops. STL-DCA had been 3x CR7 for a while and STL-ORD is only picking up 2 Eagle flights out of 8 daily. Overall, it looks like they'll have 9x daily Eagle flights out of something in the neighborhood of 29-30 daily departures - that clearly is still primarily mainline.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-09-01 21:43:25 and read 8491 times.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
So incredibly sad.

True, but it's just another example of AA pulling the plug on routes that aren't making money. What else are they supposed to do?
But wow--what a history of incredibly unsuccessful mergers and hubs.
Air Cal
Reno Air
TWA
now even most of Trans Carib's routes are biting the dust.
Nashville
Raleigh
St. Louis
San Jose
San Juan.
Has any other U.S. airline tried and failed as often?

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: thunder9
Posted 2013-09-02 00:39:40 and read 7925 times.

Quoting Lambertman (Reply 8):
Speaking of heavy metal, I see three right in that picture! A 767 at C-2? Don't see that everyday.

http://flickriver.com/photos/mss2400...1018/

Has any of the nostalgic STL folks really looked at that pic? Sure, it's the "Good Old Days" from TW, but there are a couple of discrepancies. First, where are any planes with the last TW paint job (that the 75's looked AWESOME in)?

And second, the caption at the bottom says the pic was taken in 2009. I doubt that it was even taken in 1999 as the last paint job was alrerady widespread by then. This might have been 1989? Anyway, I know that I'm busting the collective bubbles of those STL-area peeps who would like to live in a major hub city one again, but I think that ship has sailed, ala CLE/SJC/BNA/RDU/MCO/BOS, etc.

I'm not posting this to pick on anyone, but rather pointing out that former hubs can move foward.  

-J

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: BHMNONREV
Posted 2013-09-02 02:16:34 and read 7709 times.

Quoting Lambertman (Reply 8):
Speaking of heavy metal, I see three right in that picture! A 767 at C-2? Don't see that everyday.

http://flickriver.com/photos/mss2400...1018/

Actually looked to be a total of five heavies in that shot, as there appear to be two more 767's further down the concourse. You can barely see the tails but they are there. I flew into STL once in the mid-90's and counted 8 parked at C. Oh how times have changed..  
Quoting thunder9 (Reply 11):
And second, the caption at the bottom says the pic was taken in 2009. I doubt that it was even taken in 1999 as the last paint job was alrerady widespread by then. This might have been 1989?

I would guess the 94-95 time frame..

Quoting thunder9 (Reply 11):
Anyway, I know that I'm busting the collective bubbles of those STL-area peeps who would like to live in a major hub city one again, but I think that ship has sailed, ala CLE/SJC/BNA/RDU/MCO/BOS, etc.

I'm not posting this to pick on anyone, but rather pointing out that former hubs can move foward.  

I don't think you will burst any collective bubbles from the STL-area "peeps", or ex-STL'ers such as myself as you say that ship has sailed. But seeing the erosion of legacy mainline service brings a big tear to the eye, and while I don't care to see another hub set up shop in STL a few more mainline jets to IAH, DEN, BOS, etc would certainly be nice. But as stated earlier WN has just about everything covered at this point and while that is a welcome sight it has had a negative effect on legacy services, especially those with F/C cabins..

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2013-09-02 04:40:59 and read 7360 times.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 12):
I would guess the 94-95 time frame..

I think that that postcard photo was taken in the '80s. The 727s got the black wing stripes around 1992 and I'm not sure if the 707/727 baggage containers (shown under the 767 tail) survived into the 90s.

If this was 1986 or so, there would be another four or five widebodies not seen in the photo. Also, the flight monitors appear to be from an airport near Texas (DFW?).

Here are some pictures showing only belt loaders (no containers) for the forward cargo.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fergal Goodman
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matt McDowell


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dave Goodwin
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Barrow



[Edited 2013-09-02 04:55:58]

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-09-02 05:23:22 and read 7147 times.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
So the 757 will finally disappear from the STL landscape, save for the odd one from DL.

Is AA going to retire them or just reassign them to other routes to either replace older ones or replace other aircraft?

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2013-09-02 06:02:51 and read 6921 times.

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 10):


Has any other U.S. airline tried and failed as often?

Yes, their merger partner of the moment.

PSA-Network dismantled.
Piedmont-DAY/BWI/SYR hubs closed. Intra-Florida dismantled.
US-IND hub closed. CLE hub overwhelmed by CO. MetroJet. FLL hub closed. PIT hub closed.
HP-LAS hub closed.

About the same track record as AA.

[Edited 2013-09-02 06:04:20]

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: CIDFlyer
Posted 2013-09-02 06:43:36 and read 6609 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 15):
HP-LAS hub closed.

HP also had a hub at CMH it closed as well.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: DLdiamondboy
Posted 2013-09-02 07:59:16 and read 6130 times.

Having spent 40 years of my life in STL,( now living in the realm of the DL fortress) with high status with TW and AA it is sad to see STL relegated to a mostly RJ's. Although DL has met my needs for the past seven years of travel to and from STL good connections going west with SLC, Going NE via DTW etc. I have seen the following types of aircraft docked up at STL

757
MD-88
MD-90
A319/320
CRJ-700/900

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-09-02 09:09:49 and read 5728 times.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
Not surprised at all. I'll reserve what I really want to say about AA here since I've paid the price before.

Oh wow. Yeah, I'm familiar with your line of work, that's really sad. I think the sentiment is mutual though.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
To think we had heavy iron out of here for the longest time. So incredibly sad.

*A lot* of heavy iron. Flights to HNL, LGW, CDG, on 767s, 747s, 757s, L1011s, etc. Now we're down to a few RJs and the odd token MD80. Pathetic.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 5):
Good! Wonder why AA.com states otherwise in their announcement...can't imagine a CR7 flying that route profitably.

That sounds horrendous.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
So true. WN must be having a much worse effect on AA than I would have ever anticipated

I think it's more so DL than WN, at least in my experience. I've flown a lot lately ex-STL since I've moved out to the west coast and DL without fail is always the cheapest. Obviously, WN and AA also shared a lot of the same nonstop so that might be part of it as well.

Quoting Lambertman (Reply 8):
It's incredibly unfortunate that its come down to this, but we're really pretty lucky that Southwest has chose to remain committed to the market.

If there's a dollar to be made here, WN will fill the void. Obviously they're not here for the warm and fuzzies.

Quoting steex (Reply 9):
Overall, it looks like they'll have 9x daily Eagle flights out of something in the neighborhood of 29-30 daily departures - that clearly is still primarily mainline.

The thread title is a bit misleading, I'll give you that. Considering we only had one Eagle flight to JFK as recently as a year or two ago, you can see where we're trending now though.

Quoting thunder9 (Reply 11):
Anyway, I know that I'm busting the collective bubbles of those STL-area peeps who would like to live in a major hub city one again, but I think that ship has sailed, ala CLE/SJC/BNA/RDU/MCO/BOS, etc.

Lol, there's always someone in one of these STL threads that thinks he needs to give us STL'er s a dose of "reality", ehh?

Yeah, I think we get it. We've been watching AA pull back at a steady rate since Nov of 2003 when they had their first massive cutbacks. For those of us that grew up with TWA and remember the good times at STL, it's rather sad to watch. We're rather quickly becoming a small spoke in AA's network and that's a rather depressing genesis for a one time hub that had 300+ departures/day out of STL at one time.

In short, you're not telling anyone here anything they didn't already know.

[Edited 2013-09-02 09:12:03]

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: ORDJOE
Posted 2013-09-02 09:51:54 and read 5425 times.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
So the 757 will finally disappear from the STL landscape, save for the odd one from DL.

Not too long ago at all there were a number of 757s on the ORD-STL route, such a change.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 14):
Is AA going to retire them or just reassign them to other routes to either replace older ones or replace other aircraft?

There keeping some as they have upgraded the insides to the angle flat business class. They now use them on some TATL and South America, but I think a number are going to desert

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: Atrude777
Posted 2013-09-02 11:05:11 and read 5001 times.

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 6):

If AA were to downsize capacity between STL-LAX im sure they would opt for A319s vs Eagle.

The AA 319 would be the smallest capacity on the AA side...imagine an E190 from US if the merger went through..woah boy! Actually though...that wouldn't be too bad  
Quoting Lambertman (Reply 8):

It's incredibly unfortunate that its come down to this, but we're really pretty lucky that Southwest has chose to remain committed to the market.

Speaking of heavy metal, I see three right in that picture! A 767 at C-2? Don't see that everyday.

Agreed! I never imagined Southwest to get as big as they have in STL, with the immense amount of gates they have and flights now.

Wow..that's a great shot! I had to put it on my Facebook Page! Great find!

Quoting steex (Reply 9):

I can't find any Eagle flights on STL-LAX, but do see the others.

I couldn't either, not sure why AA.com announces it...

Quoting steex (Reply 9):
Still, I think it's a bit of an overstatement to say that STL become primarily American Eagle ops.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 18):

The thread title is a bit misleading, I'll give you that.

Sorry, I really wasn't sure what to put in the title. "American Eagle takes over selected routes" wasn't accurate either as there was still a mix of mainline too..Sorry!  

Alex

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-09-02 12:20:21 and read 4620 times.

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 19):

There keeping some as they have upgraded the insides to the angle flat business class. They now use them on some TATL and South America, but I think a number are going to desert

Are they going to replace the 757's going to Hawaii?

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: TrnsWrld
Posted 2013-09-02 13:33:25 and read 4209 times.

I have never lived in STL, but since my mother worked for TWA I was always flying them and spent a lot of time connecting through STL. The last times I have been at that airport I remember an extremely busy place that was bustling with people and gates loaded with jets all the way down. I liked seeing one or two 747s parked at the end and a number of L1011s and 767s as well. In the 90's when the 757s came I remember a couple instances where they had to park our 757 at one of the inner gates where you would typically only see DC9s. It was cool because they had to have wing walkers slowly bring us in because the wings of our plane were literally half way over the DC9s next to us. Like others have said, the "good ole days"   Im sure I would want to cry if I went to STL today, but im glad I could atleast say I was a part of STL in those days.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2013-09-02 16:24:32 and read 3496 times.

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 10):
Has any other U.S. airline tried and failed as often?

Failed at what? Eliminating competition? I'm not so sure AA has failed at that...

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-09-02 17:37:38 and read 3395 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 21):
Are they going to replace the 757's going to Hawaii?

Doubtful. In the near term, anyway. I don't know of any plans to make a subfleet of 738s or 320 variants ETOPs capable in AA's fleet.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: BHMNONREV
Posted 2013-09-02 19:21:08 and read 3376 times.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 18):
Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
So true. WN must be having a much worse effect on AA than I would have ever anticipated

I think it's more so DL than WN, at least in my experience. I've flown a lot lately ex-STL since I've moved out to the west coast and DL without fail is always the cheapest. Obviously, WN and AA also shared a lot of the same nonstop so that might be part of it as well.

Looks as though AA is giving their STL FF base (or what's left of them) the big bird here, and I could see some of the STL based flyers looking to get a status match with DL, who still offers mainline or two cabin service to most of their hubs from STL. I'm an AA EXP and my last few flights into/out of STL were full in the Premium cabin but I have found MCE on the MD-80's very comfortable when travelling with my G/F. Shame to see some of that going away.

But I'm now based in Houston and IAH is now my home airport, so the American decisions at STL do not affect me too much personally but sucks for the business travellers who still call Lambert home and the entire St. Louis area as a whole. As someone who literally grew up at Lambert Field and watched it grow since my first flight there in 1968 it saddens me to see what it has become..  

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-09-02 19:25:06 and read 3356 times.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 25):
I could see some of the STL based flyers looking to get a status match with DL, who still offers mainline or two cabin service to most of their hubs from STL.

I don't see how DL's service levels are in any way superior to AA's. AA has no 50 seaters today and will still have more mainline than DL even after these changes. Moreover, AA's hubs are much, much larger local markets ex-STL than DL's. US' schedule, FWIW, is also about 80 percent two class.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: BHMNONREV
Posted 2013-09-02 19:51:43 and read 3282 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 25):
I could see some of the STL based flyers looking to get a status match with DL, who still offers mainline or two cabin service to most of their hubs from STL.

I don't see how DL's service levels are in any way superior to AA's. AA has no 50 seaters today and will still have more mainline than DL even after these changes. Moreover, AA's hubs are much, much larger local markets ex-STL than DL's. US' schedule, FWIW, is also about 80 percent two class.

As things currently stand you are correct. But as AA continues to downgauge or eliminate routes entirely from the STL market these flyers will look elsewhere, and DL seems to be the legacy most interested in trying to lure the biz traveller onto their metal as they are the only ones who have added service in the past few years.

Now if AA and US can manage to pull off the merger then it will be interesting to see how the STL landscape pans out from there. But from my view AA has absolutely zero interest in growing the STL market or even keeping the status quo, only shrinking it..

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: a380787
Posted 2013-09-03 00:07:48 and read 3043 times.

AA :

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 10):
True, but it's just another example of AA pulling the plug on routes that aren't making money. What else are they supposed to do?
But wow--what a history of incredibly unsuccessful mergers and hubs.
Air Cal
Reno Air
TWA
now even most of Trans Carib's routes are biting the dust.
Nashville
Raleigh
St. Louis
San Jose
San Juan.

US :

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 15):
PSA-Network dismantled.
Piedmont-DAY/BWI/SYR hubs closed. Intra-Florida dismantled.
US-IND hub closed. CLE hub overwhelmed by CO. MetroJet. FLL hub closed. PIT hub closed.
HP-LAS hub closed.

and we still hear propaganda that US+AA would keep every single hub around ??

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-09-03 05:59:32 and read 2889 times.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 27):
But as AA continues to downgauge or eliminate routes entirely from the STL market these flyers will look elsewhere, and DL seems to be the legacy most interested in trying to lure the biz traveller onto their metal as they are the only ones who have added service in the past few years.

The past three years have seen AA hold things pretty steady, no? It's a contrast from the perpetual shrinking of the 2000s.

Topic: RE: Nov 21st-STL Becomes Primarily American Eagle Ops
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2013-09-03 07:57:11 and read 2729 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 23):
Quoting ozark1 (Reply 10):
Has any other U.S. airline tried and failed as often?

Failed at what? Eliminating competition? I'm not so sure AA has failed at that...

+1   

I am sure the histories of AA and US acquiring and dismantling competition will come up ALLOT in the November court hearings.


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