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Topic: Long Live The B737
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-09-05 10:44:23 and read 6724 times.

Who wouldve thought that when the 737 was introduced to
LH in 2/10/68 it would be as big as it is now. 45yrs in service
that's a testament to the sheer reliability and durability of
this magnificent plane as there's no slowing down on the type
already 7,678 have been built as of 7/2013.

Simply amazing.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: IRISH251
Posted 2013-09-05 11:48:34 and read 6554 times.

But how much does a 2013 737 have in common with the first ones, apart from the fuselage cross-section?

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: AM777LR
Posted 2013-09-05 12:43:01 and read 6415 times.

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 1):

Not very much, it is basically a completely different airplane

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: YQBexYHZBGM
Posted 2013-09-05 13:29:19 and read 6319 times.

Isn't a 736 pretty similar to the original (with the exception of avionics and internal systems)?
Oh, and engines, of course!  Smile

Al

[Edited 2013-09-05 13:30:04]

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Reffado
Posted 2013-09-05 13:32:42 and read 6304 times.

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 3):

The wings on the 737 NG family are different too, I think. Experts may chime in here.

And honestly, with the MAX EIS scheduled for the next decade (or almost), and considering the amount of 732's still in service, I wouldn't be surprised if the 737 family was the first commercial family to reach 100 years in service!

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: EmiratesEK231
Posted 2013-09-05 13:38:42 and read 6271 times.

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 2):
Not very much, it is basically a completely different airplane

   That's why I get so infuriated when I hear people try to make the argument, that the 737 is 'old news' and 'outdated,' simply because of its appearance. In reality, it's basically a new aircraft due to all of the inner changes.

At any rate, I finally got to fly the legendary 737 this past July. Flew on two 737-800s operated by Kulula. They were fairly comfortable, especially the second one I flew on which had all-leather seating. The aircraft was fairly quiet, too. Felt like I had joined some type of special club lol. I may have been one of only a dozen people who've never flown on the venerable 737. I'd flown on the 727, DC-9, and A320, but not this legend that plies the skies. I wouldn't mind flying it again. Just hope I get one with the new sky interior.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: TSS
Posted 2013-09-05 13:43:52 and read 6249 times.

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 3):
Isn't a 736 pretty similar to the original (with the exception of avionics and internal systems)?
Oh, and engines, of course!

Size-wise, perhaps, but the 736 has the more robust (read "heavier" ) structure and larger wings of the NG series.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Reffado
Posted 2013-09-05 13:51:52 and read 6214 times.

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 5):
Just hope I get one with the new sky interior.

Having flown on nearly all the variants (haven't flown 731, 736 and 739), I was quite impressed with the sky interior. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it felt like a totally new airplane. Flew it on G3 last september, was quite a nice change! The whole cabin atmosphere becomes more comfortable.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Yflyer
Posted 2013-09-05 13:51:56 and read 6213 times.

I know the NG series had some pretty substantial changes, including a completely new wing, but I've always been less clear on the extent of the differences between the "classic" series and the original series. Was the 733 essentially a stretched and re-engined 732 (I know some changes to the vertical stabilizer and landing gear were required as well), or were there bigger changes than that?

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: EmiratesEK231
Posted 2013-09-05 13:56:07 and read 6181 times.

Quoting Reffado (Reply 7):
Having flown on nearly all the variants (haven't flown 731, 736 and 739), I was quite impressed with the sky interior. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it felt like a totally new airplane. Flew it on G3 last september, was quite a nice change! The whole cabin atmosphere becomes more comfortable.

Lucky you! I'm sure it was a great experience. I mean, I pretty much got the experience via the 77W, but I also wanted it on the 737 as well. One day...

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: YQBexYHZBGM
Posted 2013-09-05 13:56:59 and read 6162 times.

Please explain how MAX will differ from NG. This is something I haven't yet been able to get a good understanding of.

Al

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: EmiratesEK231
Posted 2013-09-05 13:58:25 and read 6146 times.

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 10):
Please explain how MAX will differ from NG. This is something I haven't yet been able to get a good understanding of.

I really don't mean to come across as rude... but you have access to the internet. You can find out the info on your own with ease.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: YQBexYHZBGM
Posted 2013-09-05 14:13:44 and read 6111 times.

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 11):
I really don't mean to come across as rude... but you have access to the internet. You can find out the info on your own with ease.

I wouldn't have asked if I had already found an appropriate reference. Wikipedia's page on the 737 MAX seems to take a lot of space to basically say more efficient engines, boomerang wingtip fences and sky interior. "The airframe is to receive some modifications as well" doesn't say much.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-09-05 14:20:59 and read 6075 times.

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 2):
it is basically a completely different airplane

I believe quite a few 737 parts (apart from the basic fuselage structure) are unchanged from the first 737s in 1968. That's been stated in various earlier threads.

My first 737 flight was on one of CP Air's first 737-200s YVR-YPR (Prince Rupert, British Columbia) in November 1968. The flight operated YVR-YPR-YXY (Whitehorse, Yukon). My last 737 flight was a couple of weeks ago AMS-GVA on a KLM 737-700, almost 45 years later. The inflight service was certainly better in 1968, as was the seating comfort with 34 inch pitch then the norm.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: B757forever
Posted 2013-09-05 14:34:26 and read 6009 times.

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 8):
Was the 733 essentially a stretched and re-engined 732 (I know some changes to the vertical stabilizer and landing gear were required as well), or were there bigger changes than that?

Having worked the 732 and 733, I recall the 733 has an additional flight spoiler on each wing. The 732 has 8 total spoilers and the 733 has 10. But Boeing, to keep spoiler numbering similar to the 732, used the designation "spoiler 0" and "spoiler 9" for the added spoilers on the 733.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: tjh8402
Posted 2013-09-05 16:13:27 and read 5823 times.

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 12):

The engines and the wingtip devices are the primary differences. The only substantial airframe difference I'm aware of is the new APU/tail cone design (someone can correct me but I think the rudder and vertical stabilizer are the same). They may also make some control surfaces FBW, and there may be some 787 inspired changes to the windscreen. It's not a dramatic change. The sky interior and new overhead bins are already on the NGs (and looks great I'll add).

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Kengo
Posted 2013-09-05 17:01:12 and read 5722 times.

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 15):

Just like to add that MAX flight deck might get a new look, similar to the 787. However, I'm not sure if this has been changed.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2013-09-05 17:07:27 and read 5696 times.

Quoting Kengo (Reply 16):
Just like to add that MAX flight deck might get a new look, similar to the 787. However, I'm not sure if this has been changed.

In a thread about Japan last week it was mentioned Boeing is selling the 777/787/737 as a complete family with a similar cockpit, so I'm sure the 737 MAX cockpit will look a lot like the 787 flight deck.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: PC12Fan
Posted 2013-09-05 18:37:58 and read 5562 times.

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 5):
That's why I get so infuriated when I hear people try to make the argument, that the 737 is 'old news' and 'outdated,' simply because of its appearance.

If there were a digital flying chest bump, I'd be giving you one right now. How can they say it's a 40+ year old design when the NG's were designed in the early 90's?

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 12):
Wikipedia's page

There's your problem. Go to the manufacturers site or a more credible aviation site for your information.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-09-05 20:01:51 and read 5464 times.

I know there is different model type of 737s just like
everyother airplane out there.

My topic is simply just that the 737s have been flying the
skies for 45yrs. That is simply amazing that type of aircraft
has lasted that long. Kudos to Boeing to develop such a great
relaible and dependable aircraft as the 737.

I know we here on A.net are very passionate to aviation
but plz lets stick to the topic at hand.

Thanx.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: mia305
Posted 2013-09-05 20:04:26 and read 5457 times.

Also I don't think when Boeing delivered the first 737 that 45yrs later
they would still building they type.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: YXwatcherMKE
Posted 2013-09-05 21:07:46 and read 5375 times.

I guess I a lucky one here, I've had the joy of taking my first 737 flight in August of 1969 at the age of 14 on a SLC-MSP trip with several stops on the way(CYS-RAP-SFD). Oh I almost forgot the SLC-PIH and back too all on Western Airlines. I am certain that was on the classic 737 based on the year we were traveling and the planes smelled so new. That was one of the first things my Dad noticed when we boarded, it was like getting in to a new car for the first time. And it was so much fun on take off, the rush and push on the body as we climbed. I have been on several 737's over the years. I've been on the 737-100's the 300's 500's & the NG's but I have not been on either the 800's or the 900's yet. I hope I get to soon.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-09-05 21:59:51 and read 5295 times.

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 12):

You can look up the obvious stuff; systems, engines, tips, etc but I think we will see some increased use of composites and AlLi alloys as well. Also, the 787-9 is pioneering hybrid laminar flow and it is supposed to be easier on smaller surfaces so we may see some of those applications as well. All speculation.

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 21):

Three stops from SLC to MSP; very interesting. Good story.

Quoting mia305 (Thread starter):
7,678 have been built

While that is indeed impressive it does help you put in perspective some other statistics that are worth noting:
>Over 60 other models of aircraft have been produced in higher quantities
>Over 18,000 B-24 heavy bombers were built in less than 6 years: 1940-1945
>Over 43,000 Cessna 172s have been produced
>The Beechcraft Bonanza has been produced over 22,000 times and while still in production it was produced before the 737 was

Not to take away from the 737 as a lot more needs to be considered for large jet engine commercial aircraft that other aircraft don't need to contend with.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: EmiratesEK231
Posted 2013-09-06 00:27:49 and read 5146 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 22):
While that is indeed impressive it does help you put in perspective some other statistics that are worth noting:
>Over 60 other models of aircraft have been produced in higher quantities
>Over 18,000 B-24 heavy bombers were built in less than 6 years: 1940-1945
>Over 43,000 Cessna 172s have been produced
>The Beechcraft Bonanza has been produced over 22,000 times and while still in production it was produced before the 737 was

Not to take away from the 737 as a lot more needs to be considered for large jet engine commercial aircraft that other aircraft don't need to contend with.

This is completely irrelevant and akin to playing a game of semantics, just to make a point that didn't need to be made. CLEARLY, the poster is alluding to the fact that the Boeing 737 is the biggest selling COMMERCIAL aircraft, in history. The Douglas DC-3 surpasses it, but only when you include military versions of it. So this list of bombers and light aircraft, is nothing but a moot point. Apples to apples.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2013-09-06 03:22:10 and read 4988 times.

Quoting Kengo (Reply 16):
Just like to add that MAX flight deck might get a new look, similar to the 787. However, I'm not sure if this has been changed.

I'm sure there will some decently huge upgrades to the current systems, WRT avionics, MFDUs, etc. We may even see fewer, larger display units. Aside from this, I'm really not sure how much further we can go and still have it typed as a 737.

Things like OHPs & CB layouts will likely have to remain the same (as they did going from the Jurassics, to the Classics, and to the NGs) in order to conform to the existing systems and structural architecture, as well as the common type rating with existing 737s. It's worth remembering that keeping the MAX common with current 737s is afterall, why there is a 73MAX, and not an NSA, as Boeing actually wanted to make.

Much as the current 73NGs did "follow" the 777 somewhat in the flight deck, I can see the MAX "following" the 787. But as with the 73NG to the 777, I would stop very well short of calling them similar.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 20):
Also I don't think when Boeing delivered the first 737 that 45yrs later
they would still building they type.

No kidding! I remember my 1st 737 ride from when I was 11yrs old, a UAL -200 series. I was pretty excited, not the least reason being my thought process was "Oh thank goodness! I'll actually get to fly one of these things while they still exist!"

Though the 737 was doing ok at the time sales wise (not that my 11yr old self would accurately be able to divine of course!), I honestly thought that the future belonged to A32Xs and a shortened 757 derivative (which of course never came to be). It simply didn't make any sense to be that Boeing would develop and support the hell out of a much older design, while eventually shelving the newer 757.

24 yrs on, I see lots of practicality behind the choice, no doubt, but I fully echo your sentiment of "Who would have imagined!"

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 23):

This is completely irrelevant and akin to playing a game of semantics, just to make a point that didn't need to be made. CLEARLY, the poster is alluding to the fact that the Boeing 737 is the biggest selling COMMERCIAL aircraft, in history.

Not at all. It's a perfectly valid contribution, as most of Tortugamon's are.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 18):
How can they say it's a 40+ year old design when the NG's were designed in the early 90's?

While I do not see it as a 40+ plane per se, I certainly can't look at it as modern era design either. There's been a lot face lifting for sure, and it is fully competitive with all the modern offerings WRT passenger amenities and value to operators.

But I work these planes a lot, sometimes in the same shift as 32X series aircraft, and there is no question that beneath the skin, it is very much a 1960s airplane. Don't get me wrong, a lot of systems have come a long way (but OTOH, let's not forget that the 731s were very advanced for 1968 in the 1st place), but a lot more really have not changed since the 100s.

This is an airplane that still does not have tire pressure reads available on any page Upstairs, still has an abundance of cables, pulleys and turnbuckles, still has butterfly doors, still doesn't have electric or hydraulic assistance for many items that other types do, etc.

In fact, if you take a good look in the gear wells of a 100 and a 9ER back to back, you're really not going to see a lot of difference overall. Compare that to an Airbus or a 757, OTOH...


None of those are bad things, make no mistake, but there is a lot that when looked at closely makes it clear that the 737 is not a new design either. Perhaps it can be looked as something that makes even more remarkable in the way that they are still selling in good numbers then.

I really wouldn't be surprised to see the 737 finalize its program life at well north of 25,000 units (that's not a joke). So again, to echo the OP, long live the 737.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Aesma
Posted 2013-09-06 05:57:30 and read 5023 times.

I've never flown on a 737, am I the only one here ? I mostly fly AF and short haul so all kinds of RJ and A318/19/20/21 but not one 737 of any variety. When I was a kid AF had 737s but the flew flights I did back then were in A300s.

I like the look of the Jurassic, a classic plane I'd like to try, not a fan of the newer ones with deformed nacelles, modified tailplane etc.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-09-06 06:35:35 and read 4628 times.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 19):
My topic is simply just that the 737s have been flying the
skies for 45yrs. That is simply amazing that type of aircraft
has lasted that long. Kudos to Boeing to develop such a great
relaible and dependable aircraft as the 737.

There are a few things the competition hasn't gotten around to yet:





Given how long militaries hang on to their kit, I imagine we'll see 737s flying 100 years after their 1960s introduction.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: n797mx
Posted 2013-09-06 06:59:47 and read 4310 times.

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 2):
Not very much, it is basically a completely different airplane
http://youtu.be/0wxp-NxJny8?t=1m28s
  

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-09-06 08:27:30 and read 3295 times.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 20):
Also I don't think when Boeing delivered the first 737 that 45yrs later
they would still building they type.


And when the New Gen (-300) came out Boeing was actively looking at moving all production to China since the 737 was expected to slowly die out and be replaced with the 757.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 24):
This is an airplane that still does not have tire pressure reads available on any page Upstairs


Last time I looked it was still optional on the 777 and not everybody got it.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 24):
still doesn't have electric or hydraulic assistance for many items that other types do, etc.


Don't know what you're talking about here -- its a glass cockpit, the flight controls/gear/brakes are all hydraulic and the engine controls are state of the art -- only complaints from the flight crews are headroom and for some lack of FBW.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: DualQual
Posted 2013-09-06 08:44:13 and read 3037 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 28):

Lack of headroom, lack of stowage, Jumpseat sucks, and no RTE2 or winds at several altitudes for a recommended altitude in the FMC.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: barney captain
Posted 2013-09-06 11:53:06 and read 1635 times.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 24):
I'm sure there will some decently huge upgrades to the current systems, WRT avionics, MFDUs, etc. We may even see fewer, larger display units. Aside from this, I'm really not sure how much further we can go and still have it typed as a 737.

This is all we've been shown so far. The biggest changes are the LAD's (Large Area Displays) and relocation of the gear handle. I'm still hoping for a redesign of the overhead panel and maybe a bit more space.  bouncy 



[Edited 2013-09-06 12:07:31]

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-09-06 12:09:04 and read 1600 times.

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 23):
This is completely irrelevant and akin to playing a game of semantics, just to make a point that didn't need to be made.

Sorry to hurt your feelings  Sad. I did note the difference between commercial jet aircraft and the numbers mentioned. And for the record the Cessna and Beechcraft models are commercial aircraft.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 30):

The larger screens were announced but I had not heard anything about the HUDs (Head-Up Display); that must be optional but still its a change. I imagine there will be an electronic flight bag as well. Certified/installed wifi is likely as well.

tortugamon

[Edited 2013-09-06 12:16:50]

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2013-09-06 12:30:27 and read 1535 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 31):

Actually a lot of NGs (AS machines for one example) already do feature HUD.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-09-06 12:40:23 and read 1516 times.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 20):
Also I don't think when Boeing delivered the first 737 that 45yrs later
they would still building they type.

Indeed, there were a few times in the early to mid 1970s when they gave strong consideration to cancelling it. I remember my dear old Grand-dad (Lord rest him) gave me a copy of "The Flier's Handbook", a brilliant book for anyone starting an interest in aviation and at that stage (it was printed in around '78), only about 400 had been sold. Now they probably sell that much in a year! It's amazing that more than one 737 rolls off the production line every month.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 29):
Jumpseat sucks

The main thing that sucks about the jump seat is not being able to sit in it anymore; I wouldn't care if it were hanging from the ceiling with a bungee, I'd still want to sit in it!

It's a marvellous achievement; I guess one slightly sad thing is that LH plans end 737 services in 2015 or '16, just before it would have celebrated 50 years of 737 operations!

It's not unrealistic to think that there will be 737s flying in 2068, but I'll be 99 then and probably won't be able to remember my name, let alone anything about 737s!

I have been lucky enough to fly on all nine versions of the 737 so far (flew on the America West Phoenix Suns 731 in 1998), so I certainly hope to include the Max versions in due course!

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: barney captain
Posted 2013-09-06 12:40:50 and read 1515 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 31):
The larger screens were announced but I had not heard anything about the HUDs (Head-Up Display); that must be optional but still its a change. I imagine there will be an electronic flight bag as well. Certified/installed wifi is likely as well.

Yes, HUD's have been an option for some time - we even have them in the classics (post build of course). EFB's may be an option, but like us, many airlines are opting for an iPad version that is portable, upgradable and not permanently affixed to the A/C. It will be interesting to see what they do wrt the wifi.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: PGNCS
Posted 2013-09-06 12:47:00 and read 1501 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 28):
only complaints from the flight crews are headroom and for some lack of FBW.

It's a durable, simple, reliable machine which goes a long way to explain its success, but lack of headroom and FBW are FAR from the only complaints flight crews have about the 737 (I say this speaking as a former 737 pilot who has spent the last 17 years bidding around it.)

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2013-09-06 12:56:49 and read 1470 times.

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 5):
At any rate, I finally got to fly the legendary 737 this past July



Was that a 100, 200 or 300 to 500 series? I don't think there are any 100's left in passenger service.

Quoting Reffado (Reply 7):



I got my first Sky Interior flight a few weeks ago WN BWI-MDW. It was all that and a bit more. It's a bright airier interior, The bins float open and I really like the LED lighting. The "gaspers" are a new design like a flower petal. They don't blow nearly as strong as the conventional individual PSU vents/gaspers but, the cabin was comfortable none the less. And go figure, I work for our company and have yet to see or use a Sky Interior lavatory.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 19):



Though not nearly as many out there the Boeing 747 is only two to three years younger than the 737. Interestingly enough, the 747 was only supposed to be a stopgap plane till Boeing would have rolled out the SST (Boeing 2707) but as they say sometimes the best laid plans can be grounded. Had the HSCT/SST came out, the 747 would have been delegated to a cargo hauler.

Oringinally the 737 was a short range bird and was supposed to have a limited run too.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Ben Wang

A little wishful dreaming looking at those mock up pictures.

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-09-06 14:38:59 and read 1354 times.

Quoting Reffado (Reply 4):
I wouldn't be surprised if the 737 family was the first commercial family to reach 100 years in service!

Nope the Mad dogs will last longer..LOL (according to Delta)

I have been to every 737 except the 100 and the 500. The aircraft is very different now than the older versions, the 200 is a nasty noisy critter, the 300-400-500 versions are more silent but the flap actuators and such are quite noisy ( I flew SEA-LAX last month on AS on a beat up 734. Then on a 739 to MEX the difference is quite noticeable.

The 737 is a great aircraft but it seriously needs 10 inches of extra width to make it perfect... as it is is great.

TRB

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-09-06 15:14:57 and read 1283 times.

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 5):
That's why I get so infuriated when I hear people try to make the argument, that the 737 is 'old news' and 'outdated,' simply because of its appearance. In reality, it's basically a new aircraft due to all of the inner changes.

I've made the same comment here in the past and have been "shot down" so to speak. I think it's kind of a "pact" between Boeing and the FAA that if they keep calling each new model a 737 they don't have to go through a whole bunch of additional certifications.

Anyway, sad to say, but the 737 will still be flying many many routes for decades to come, meaning that most of us with the exception of the very youngest members here, have pretty much no hope of seeing any kind of radical new design flying in widespread use as a passenger aircraft in our lifetime (or what's left of our lifetime).

Topic: RE: Long Live The B737
Username: Aesma
Posted 2013-09-06 15:24:21 and read 1256 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 28):
Don't know what you're talking about here -- its a glass cockpit, the flight controls/gear/brakes are all hydraulic and the engine controls are state of the art -- only complaints from the flight crews are headroom and for some lack of FBW.

He's talking about the manual doors.


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