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Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-08-30 02:13:49 and read 20260 times.

Thai Airways has been shaken by violent turbulence on a flight bound for Hong Kong (China) International Airport, causing minor damage to the passenger cabin. There are 20 passengers wounded.

The plane, an Airbus A380, registration HS-TUA, flight TG600, which was en route from Suvarnabhumi Bangkok (Thailand) International Airport and Chek Lap Kok Hong Kong International Airport was in flight when severe turbulence shook the plane.

Twenty people who were not attached were then projected on the ceiling, striking the head of the luggage or the lining of the ceiling, some even causing a depression of it.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/iodtlw.jpg

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: pvjin
Posted 2013-08-30 02:18:34 and read 20241 times.

Ouch, the turbulence indeed must have been really bad to cause that much damage...

I wonder around where exactly the turbulence was encountered?

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-08-30 02:55:40 and read 19951 times.

Looks like it was quite a violent episode.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Twenty people who were not attached were then projected on the ceiling, striking the head of the luggage or the lining of the ceiling, some even causing a depression of it.

Personally, i always keep my seatbelt on all the time just loosened a bit. I always noticed that as soon as the seatbelt sign goes out, you hear an immediate un-clicking of 100+ buckles.

You can still be comfortable and move in your seat no problem with a loosened belt, and this is exactly the type of event you are protecting yourself from.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-08-30 03:04:44 and read 19851 times.

Definately not a good sight or experience for anyone to go through that.

Always a fear of mine when I get up during a flight.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-08-30 03:11:15 and read 19790 times.

It is an old wisdom to keep the seatbelt fastened at all the time during flight, even when sleeping. .

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: wilco737
Posted 2013-08-30 03:15:30 and read 19746 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):

It is an old wisdom to keep the seatbelt fastened at all the time during flight, even when sleeping. .

I can only agree with that. What is the big deal about having a seat belt fastened all the time? You don't need to pull them tight that you don't have any blood circulation anymore. But only close it so that you don't fly around in the cabin in case of turbulence.

I need to be strapped down in the cockpit as well all the time. Of course not the shoulder harnesses, but the regular belt is closed all the time I am sitting in my seat. Or do you want the pilot to fly around in the cockpit during severe turbulence?
Same should be for all passengers.

Of course, when you are on the lavatory or you walk aroudn a bit to stretch your legs, that is something different. But everytime you sit, you should fasten your seatbelt.

I wish the involved a speedy recovery.

wilco737
  

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: kiwiinoz
Posted 2013-08-30 03:33:12 and read 19531 times.

I have been in turbelence like this, (thankfully buckled in). I freak out a little now with my 4 year old daughter. A kid at that age on a long flight needs to get up and wander around occasionally. She would be tossed about like a rag doll

Apparently a HK airlines flight from Phuket also affected with a few injuries.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2013-08-30 03:34:31 and read 19504 times.

I hope none of the injured pax have serious injuries. I don't recall such severe damage to the interior of an a/c in a turbulence event. I guess with modern smart phones with digital cameras means we see a lot more interesting pictures of such events and a lot faster. Indeed as some others said, this does support the idea to keep your seat belt fastened whenever you are in a seat.
I would assume this a/c will be sitting for a few days for inspection and repairs.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: MIAspotter
Posted 2013-08-30 03:39:06 and read 19456 times.

Holy C!!!  Wow!

That must´ve been one heck of shake to do such damage.

Hope the PAX involved make a full recovery, and I agree with the rest, keep that seatbelt (loosely) fastened.

MIAspotter.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-08-30 03:42:29 and read 19397 times.

Whenever I fly with someone (relative, parent, co-worker, friend) I tell them and explain why they should keep their seatbelt fastened at all times, loosely, sure, but fastened. This recent incident could have snapped some necks.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-08-30 04:07:33 and read 19151 times.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 5):
But only close it so that you don't fly around in the cabin in case of turbulence.

Is it safe to have the seatbelt 'loosely fastened' or could that cause abdominal injuries?

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: wilco737
Posted 2013-08-30 04:10:29 and read 19121 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 10):
Is it safe to have the seatbelt 'loosely fastened' or could that cause abdominal injuries?

From what I know it is better to have them loosely fastened than not fastened at all. Maybe it could cause minor injuries to your abdomen, but still better than smashing with your head into the ceiling and then smashing back down onto the seats.

wilco737
  

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-08-30 04:15:47 and read 19074 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 9):
Whenever I fly with someone (relative, parent, co-worker, friend) I tell them and explain why they should keep their seatbelt fastened at all times

So true. When i first told my other half to stop talking and watch the safety demo or keep your seatbelt on, i initially got a look of disinterest, and the response "nobody else is doing that".
The routineness of air travel has caused people to develop complacent habits.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2013-08-30 04:42:40 and read 18846 times.

Folks:

When these incidents happen, there's always a long thread about how passengers do not know how to buckle themselves while seated. Maybe so. But we do not know why the passengers were hurt this time. This is an A380, maybe 500 passengers. 20 people are a small fraction of that, could be people on the way to the bathroom, hit by food carts, hit by flying crew  or indeed the crew often gets the worst of the situation, so they too could be hurt.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-08-30 05:00:37 and read 18675 times.

When I first read the title, I thought there was some altercation or perhaps attack that led to passengers being wounded. Have recommended that title be changed to use the words "turbulence" and "injured" rather than "incident" and "wounded".

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-08-30 05:06:30 and read 18619 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 14):

Agree, title should be changed...

TRB

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-08-30 05:32:28 and read 18427 times.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 13):
When these incidents happen, there's always a long thread about how passengers do not know how to buckle themselves while seated. Maybe so. But we do not know why the passengers were hurt this time. This is an A380, maybe 500 passengers. 20 people are a small fraction of that, could be people on the way to the bathroom, hit by food carts, hit by flying crew  or indeed the crew often gets the worst of the situation, so they too could be hurt.

All could be true, but the pictures clearly seem to show minor damage to the ceiling due to passengers being almost launched from their seats.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 6):
I have been in turbelence like this, (thankfully buckled in).

I experienced it once, and it came very unexpected and severe. Only the coke on my tray table did not "survive" (and created a mess), but due to being strapped in I had no problems.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 5):
Of course, when you are on the lavatory or you walk aroudn a bit to stretch your legs, that is something different. But everytime you sit, you should fasten your seatbelt.

I can only agree with that.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 5):
I wish the involved a speedy recovery.

As do I.

And everyone should be buckled in while being inflight. That prevents most of the injuries.

Topic: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2013-08-30 06:09:59 and read 18219 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 14):
When I first read the title, I thought there was some altercation or perhaps attack that led to passengers being wounded. Have recommended that title be changed to use the words "turbulence" and "injured" rather than "incident" and "wounded".

Well said, I fully concur

I was expecting to read about some terrorist incident on-board, but that the situation had been resolved, at the expense of "wounded" pax!

To discuss in a thread about severe turbulence and resulting injury, I endorse the suggestion to bring the thread title into line with its actual content

Update - the title has been changed to "CAT turbulence", but it still talks about "wounded" pax - so only the first (more important) half of the job has been done

[Edited 2013-08-30 06:18:14]

Now done!


[Edited 2013-08-30 06:18:54]

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: JohnClipper
Posted 2013-08-30 06:15:50 and read 18179 times.

Surprised there were not more incidents this morning as the weather this morning around this time was horrible.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: factsonly
Posted 2013-08-30 06:27:31 and read 18117 times.

This incident reminds of the Egyptair B707-320 Clear Air Turbulence event over the Alps (1970s) on a CAI-LHR or CAI-CDG flight, in which a male passenger standing in the aisle was hanged. His head literally shot through the overhead panels and he did not fall back down, but remained hanging in the aisle. Regretfully the passenger did not survive this ordeal.

A sad event in air travel.

BE CAREFUL: It is not uncommon for heavy drinks carts to become flying objects that can also hit ceiling panels. All non-constraint objects (people and physical items) can do very severe damage to the interior and the occupants in cases of clear air turbulence.

From personal experience I can testify that passenger hysteria occurs very quickly when severe CAT hits an aircraft. After the event it takes solid and professional cabin management to restore passenger confidence and some form of order. It is not unknown for cabin crew to loose it and break down themselves, particularly when they are hurt. Severe CAT can be rated as a serious incident in air travel.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2013-08-30 06:33:37 and read 18049 times.

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 18):
the weather this morning around this time was horrible

JohnClipper, as someone on the ground, and to spare me searching through out-dated threads on Google, can you describe the current weather and if it is due to a current tropic storm, or otherwise.

I'll be passing through HKG end-November and then mid-January '14. Can you recommend a good website for local weather forecasts? But I reflect that with fixed travel dates, knowing in advance of bad weather might not be a great idea! However, forewarned is forearmed (keep the seatbelt a bit tighter!)

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: na
Posted 2013-08-30 06:40:31 and read 17969 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
It is an old wisdom to keep the seatbelt fastened at all the time during flight, even when sleeping. .

Thats what I do too of course. But what if it strikes when you´re just waiting in front of the toilet? I guess such a heavy turbulence doesnt happen without a bit of a warning. I have never experienced even moderate turbulence without some kind of warning.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: LY777
Posted 2013-08-30 06:49:38 and read 17896 times.

Quoting na (Reply 21):

Indeed, from my modest experience, I have noticed that slight turbulence always precede moderate or severe turbulence are always. I have never encountered an "airpocket" suddenly during a smooth flight.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2013-08-30 06:54:04 and read 17867 times.

Quoting na (Reply 21):
Thats what I do too of course. But what if it strikes when you´re just waiting in front of the toilet? I guess such a heavy turbulence doesnt happen without a bit of a warning. I have never experienced even moderate turbulence without some kind of warning.

Agreed. Cant remember moderate/severe turbulence that wasnt preceded by a "return to seats" announcement

It's also quite evident on numerous flights I've experienced that the crew has some liberty (of their own or granted by ATC) to fly around weather patterns to avoid the worst of the turbulence. I have seen this on many flights over the South China Sea, especially evident during daytime flights, when it's clear that the flight is weaving a path through mountainous cu-nimb cloud towers that look just so awesomely powerful and horrible. Maybe there are moments in flight when the option to weave to avoid is removed by ATC constraints, and the flight just has to go through it!

I still have my heart in my throat when I'm being taken through medium to hard turbulence, as it is just an awful experience. When I need to, I remind myself of aircraft (C130?) being deliberately flown into hurricanes in order to "better understand them", and that said aircraft usually emerged intact!

Wishing you all a smooth next flight!

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: davidho1985
Posted 2013-08-30 07:17:00 and read 17731 times.

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 18):
Surprised there were not more incidents this morning as the weather this morning around this time was horrible

A Hong Kong Airline A320 with 110 pax from Phurket also hit the turbulence, caused 3 passangers and 3 crews imjured few hours before the TG600 incident.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: GrahamHill
Posted 2013-08-30 07:29:14 and read 18202 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 2):
Personally, i always keep my seatbelt on all the time just loosened a bit
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
It is an old wisdom to keep the seatbelt fastened at all the time during flight, even when sleeping

I always have it on each time I am seated. I never experienced heavy turbulences, but I'm always a bit worried that an incident like that happens to me one day.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 12):
"nobody else is doing that"

And yet it's not because the majority does it that it is right.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 12):
The routineness of air travel has caused people to develop complacent habits.

Unfortunately yes.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Vimanav
Posted 2013-08-30 08:36:55 and read 17998 times.

Not surprised about the intensity of CAT. There have been instances when aircraft like the B707 have disintegrated when hit by CAT. G-APFE - a BOAC 707-436 in 1966 met this unfortunate fate when passing abeam Mt. Fuji - an area notorious for CAT which even has a saying "when the sky is blue, Fuji is angry".

And not always is severe turbulence preceded by light to moderate turbulence. In 2002, I was on an LH 747 enroute FRA DEL with my wife and infant son in the bassinet. Mid way into the flight during meal service, the aircraft suddenly dropped for about 3 seconds during which i was in my seat thanks to the belt, but i did see my wife, son and a whole bunch of pax suddenly about 2-3 feet up in the air before thudding back down into their seats (or bassinet in my son's case). Luckily nobody suffered injuries and the Captain came on the PA apologizing and blaming a sudden shift in winds.

It was clear weather outside and no hint of any turbulence to come and none afterwards either.

brgds//Vimanav

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: LY777
Posted 2013-08-30 08:48:41 and read 18444 times.

And yet, it was an A380!
It is supposed to be smoother than other a/c, isn't it?

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-08-30 09:29:26 and read 17717 times.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 27):
It is supposed to be smoother than other a/c, isn't it?

Yes, but not exempt from the laws of physics.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: SASDC8
Posted 2013-08-30 09:40:41 and read 17596 times.

From Thai's Facebook page it seems that the cabin crew were injured as well.

No aircraft is exempt from CAT, so I for one always keep my belt fasten while seated.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: barney captain
Posted 2013-08-30 09:43:15 and read 17514 times.

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 18):
Surprised there were not more incidents this morning as the weather this morning around this time was horrible.

Can you elaborate a bit? This time of year around HKG, "horrible" would usually imply thunderstorms.

If this (and the other A320 incident) were because of TRW's, this was likely not a CAT encounter.

CAT = CLEAR Air Turbulence.

[Edited 2013-08-30 10:10:17]

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: s5daw
Posted 2013-08-30 10:06:25 and read 17122 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 16):
All could be true, but the pictures clearly seem to show minor damage to the ceiling due to passengers being almost launched from their seats

Actually... the passengers remain where they were, but the plane is pushed down. Incredible that such a big bird can be affected so much!

Quoting factsonly (Reply 19):
His head literally shot through the overhead panels and he did not fall back down, but remained hanging in the aisle

Well, now I'm going to be afraid to even go to the loo!!

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: readytotaxi
Posted 2013-08-30 10:09:27 and read 17073 times.

best wishes to those injured.
I have to confess to being a turbulance junkie, you have not had your monies worth on a flight without a good bit of up & down.  
Not talking about damaging stuff just the kind that reminds you Mother Nature is out there. I also like bonkers rollercoasters.  

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: CdnCactus
Posted 2013-08-30 10:31:43 and read 16851 times.

Last time I flew into LAX on a WS flight, the descent was very bumpy, and it was clear our 738 was fighting its way down. At one point I heard what sounded like a rumble before a big jolt bounced me right off my seat. I then clearly felt my seatbelt pulling me back down. I looked up the aisle and saw a female F/A holding on for dear life, and was once again reminded how much risk the crew is put under when just doing their job.

So yes, seatbelt always clicked in when I'm seated, and pray to the weather gods when using the lavatory...

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: foilcat
Posted 2013-08-30 11:02:49 and read 16356 times.

a severe thunderstorm passed Hong Kong on 30 Aug (from midnight - morning), rained like hell, and 4000 times lightning were recorded from Hong Kong Observatory, that is quite a typical weather condition of HKG during summer time.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2013-08-30 11:10:48 and read 16252 times.

Second A380 that suffers CAT.... size in this case does not matter...

TRB

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Western727
Posted 2013-08-30 11:17:11 and read 16147 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 2):
as soon as the seatbelt sign goes out, you hear an immediate un-clicking of 100+ buckles.

...and the majority of those very same people (at least in the USA) have no problems leaving their belts on in automobiles, even during long drives. Gotta love the logical paradoxes prevalent in humanity.

Reminds me of a pet peeve of mine: being wished a "safe flight" which of course ignores the greater likelihood of my dying in the car on the way to/from the airport.  

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: delta88
Posted 2013-08-30 12:48:10 and read 14978 times.

so this is the legitmate reason they tell you even when the sign is off, you should still keep the seatbelt on just incase of unexpected turbulence.

Regards
Delta88

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: ecbomberman
Posted 2013-08-30 13:03:27 and read 14923 times.

Well, this is the radar image of the Hong Kong area (albeit 10+ hr later than the incidents had occured) . Suppose the radar image would not have been much difference throughout the day. 100mm of rain had poured down in parts of HK during the night so there must have quite a few CBs around HK.



Re Hong Kong Airline/Express and TG incident (Surprisingly from a UK press):
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...7/26-hurt-as-planes-hit-turbulence

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-08-30 13:29:38 and read 14524 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 2):
Personally, i always keep my seatbelt on all the time just loosened a bit. I always noticed that as soon as the seatbelt sign goes out, you hear an immediate un-clicking of 100+ buckles.

You can still be comfortable and move in your seat no problem with a loosened belt, and this is exactly the type of event you are protecting yourself from.

Unfortunately your average passenger know nothing about CAT, I bet if all pax knew about it almost all of them would keep their seatbelts buckled while seated.




Quoting wilco737 (Reply 5):
I need to be strapped down in the cockpit as well all the time. Of course not the shoulder harnesses, but the regular belt is closed all the time I am sitting in my seat. Or do you want the pilot to fly around in the cockpit during severe turbulence?

Airlines should make it compulsory for the pilots to wear their seatbelts inflight, you don't want both pilots incapacitated in the event of a severe CAT.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: wilco737
Posted 2013-08-30 13:31:48 and read 14589 times.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 39):
Airlines should make it compulsory for the pilots to wear their seatbelts inflight, you don't want both pilots incapacitated in the event of a severe CAT.

It is compolsury at my airline. For taxi, take off and landing we need to have all 5 belts on, but during cruise flight the shoulder harnesses can be opened, but the others: remain fastened.

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Skydrol
Posted 2013-08-30 13:39:02 and read 14421 times.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 27):
And yet, it was an A380!It is supposed to be smoother than other a/c, isn't it?

Not immune!

How long until someone is critically injured (or expires) due to severe CAT while in the A380 shower/spa on EK? Would that be its demise?

Certainly the same folks who believe in being buckled in to their seat (even loosely) for the entire flight must be dead against this idea...






LD4

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-08-30 14:07:17 and read 14095 times.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 41):
How long until someone is critically injured (or expires) due to severe CAT while in the A380 shower/spa on EK? Would that be its demise?

   I've said it on past threads and I'll say it again, it's just a matter of time before someone is tumbled inside an EK A380 shower during heavy CAT. There's a reason why other carriers are not emulating this gimmicky idea.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Barney Captain
Posted 2013-08-30 14:29:27 and read 13808 times.

I'll say it again, this looks to be thunderstorm induced, and therefore not CAT.

CAT comes out of clear air, with very little to no notice. Turbulence caused by deviating around TRW"s can easily be expected.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-08-30 15:51:51 and read 13103 times.

I think there is currently a big ol' tropical storm passing HK right now. So probably not CAT. Still quite possibly without warning.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: YLWbased
Posted 2013-08-30 20:19:39 and read 11343 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 44):

I think there is currently a big ol' tropical storm passing HK right now. So probably not CAT. Still quite possibly without warning.

Not a all a tropical storm, it is just how mother nature behave around HKG this time of year. It has been 7 weeks from the last sunny weekends we've had here, and I'm getting grumpier by the week, can it stop raining for just one Sunday, just one!

YLWbased

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: flylonghaul
Posted 2013-08-30 20:58:47 and read 11070 times.

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 26):

It was clear weather outside and no hint of any turbulence to come and none afterwards either.

It can definitely come from nowhere at times.

I had this on BA15 in July. Very smooth flight seat belt sign was off and we suddenly hit what felt like several of the worlds worst potholes.
Seat belt sign was switched on immediately but after those bumps there was nothing more.
Thankfully just a few spilled drinks and crying babies from the look and sounds of it.

Speedy recovery to those involved.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: mcogator
Posted 2013-08-30 21:18:31 and read 10902 times.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 42):

I've said it on past threads and I'll say it again, it's just a matter of time before someone is tumbled inside an EK A380 shower during heavy CAT. There's a reason why other carriers are not emulating this gimmicky idea.

What's the difference between a shower and a bathroom? Passengers have been sitting on the loo unbuckled for a long time without someone being killed. Why would an EK shower be different?

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: PlaneHunter
Posted 2013-08-30 21:53:42 and read 10687 times.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 42):
I've said it on past threads and I'll say it again, it's just a matter of time before someone is tumbled inside an EK A380 shower during heavy CAT. There's a reason why other carriers are not emulating this gimmicky idea.

Yeah, just a matter of time until airlines even remove lavatories and galleys from aircraft...simply too dangerous.  


PH

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Airbus_A340
Posted 2013-08-30 23:49:07 and read 9967 times.

I was operating a flight on the same routing as the Thai A380 later on the same day. We had the seatbelt signs on for a longtime and were deviating many miles off track to avoid weather, mostly extensive CB buildups. If not avoided, severe turbulence could have been experienced like in the photos. We experienced no CAT though...but there was plenty of obvious avoidable weather buildup.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: mach92
Posted 2013-08-31 02:06:08 and read 8851 times.

I doubt it was CAT with all the weather around HKG.

Sometimes you do your best to avoid but it's worse then you think.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2013-08-31 02:32:53 and read 8758 times.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 19):
BE CAREFUL: It is not uncommon for heavy drinks carts to become flying objects that can also hit ceiling panels. All non-constraint objects (people and physical items) can do very severe damage to the interior and the occupants in cases of clear air turbulence.

Indeed, I flew on Thai Airways 747 back in 2000, between Bangkok and Copenhagen and all of a sudden severe turbalance occured. The drink cart and bottles went all over the place and in the end the cart hit a flight attendant in the back ...

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Kaiarahi
Posted 2013-08-31 03:49:30 and read 8460 times.

Quoting na (Reply 21):
I guess such a heavy turbulence doesnt happen without a bit of a warning. I have never experienced even moderate turbulence without some kind of warning.
Quoting LY777 (Reply 22):
I have noticed that slight turbulence always precede moderate or severe turbulence are always. I have never encountered an "airpocket" suddenly during a smooth flight.
Quoting sassiciai (Reply 23):
Cant remember moderate/severe turbulence that wasnt preceded by a "return to seats" announcement

It's called "clear air turbulence" because it's unpredictable and occurs without warning in otherwise clear air, unlike many other forms of turbulence. If it were predictable or visible on radar, the flight wouldn't be there.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Finn350
Posted 2013-08-31 04:15:53 and read 8343 times.

Does anybody know whether seat belt sign was on or off? If there were only 20 injuries (out of 500 or so), it could be that the sign was on, and only those who hadn't had time to buckle up were injured.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: babybus
Posted 2013-08-31 05:15:59 and read 8284 times.

I've experienced turbulence on an A380 and it feels very odd indeed. It falls and serves like an old wooden galleon.

I was on an Air Seychelles flight a few weeks ago en route Hong Kong. One thing I noticed was that the Chinese passengers just would not sit down. On taxi, on initial climb, though seat belt signed turbulence they would just get up and try to move around as normal. I felt sorry for the cabin crew shouting at them all the time.

So when it comes to injured pax on a China bound plane I have no sympathy.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Bogi
Posted 2013-08-31 10:06:35 and read 7892 times.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/loca...3/45-hurt-as-plane-hits-turbulence

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Barney Captain
Posted 2013-08-31 11:52:30 and read 7728 times.

Quoting na (Reply 21):
I guess such a heavy turbulence doesnt happen without a bit of a warning. I have never experienced even moderate turbulence without some kind of warning.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 22):
I have noticed that slight turbulence always precede moderate or severe turbulence are always. I have never encountered an "airpocket" suddenly during a smooth flight.



As Kaiarahi alluded to - these are dangerous and incorrect assumptions - and a main reason why people get injured in turbulence. Especially when dealing with convective activity, it will almost always be smooth until the moment you penetrate the cloud layer, generating almost instant moderate. It won't necessarily "start getting bumpy" or provide a clue to those not already strapped in.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-08-31 12:23:00 and read 7677 times.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 47):
What's the difference between a shower and a bathroom? Passengers have been sitting on the loo unbuckled for a long time without someone being killed. Why would an EK shower be different?

Are you serious?!   Do you really think that taking a shower on a plane is just the same as using the restroom? I don't know about you, but most folks spend a lot less time in the restroom than in the shower (I know the A380's showers have time limit, but it's still longer than the time an average pax would spend in the toilet). The wet shower is much more slippery than the lavatory, plus when you're using the toilet there's a chance you'd be sitting down (100% chance if you're a female) Unbuckled seated pax sustain less serious injuries than those standing in case of severe turbulence.






Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 48):
Yeah, just a matter of time until airlines even remove lavatories and galleys from aircraft...simply too dangerous.


PH


Lavatories and galleys are necessities, showers are not.

The longest EK A380 flight is ~14 hrs. How many people do you know that can't go 14 hrs. without taking a shower?! F pax have access to excellent shower facilities at the airport lounge, plus when flying you can't go for a run or a work out and there's a product called deodorant/antiperspirant!  

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Vimanav
Posted 2013-08-31 12:51:16 and read 7634 times.

On the bright side, HS-TUA, the affected A380 is none the worse and did TG930/931 BKK-CDG-BKK and passed about 50kms North East of where I am sitting about 20 minutes ago cruising happily at FL390. Seeing the damage inside would it have warranted a longer stay on the ground to get further checks done for structural damage?

brgds//Vimanav

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-08-31 14:04:55 and read 7479 times.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 40):
Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 39):
Airlines should make it compulsory for the pilots to wear their seatbelts inflight, you don't want both pilots incapacitated in the event of a severe CAT.

It is compolsury at my airline. For taxi, take off and landing we need to have all 5 belts on, but during cruise flight the shoulder harnesses can be opened, but the others: remain fastened.

It's also compulsory for LH passengers, even when the seatbelt sign is off. They changed their regulation in 2009. Same on LX.

Lufthansa - Fastening Seatbelts Now Compulsory (by Marquis Jan 29 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: s5daw
Posted 2013-08-31 14:08:22 and read 7455 times.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 57):
Do you really think that taking a shower on a plane is just the same as using the restroom? I don't know about you, but most folks spend a lot less time in the restroom than in the shower (I know the A380's showers have time limit, but it's still longer than the time an average pax would spend in the toilet).

I could imagine taking "#2" could take longer than a casual shower.

Besides, who says sitting is less dangerous than standing? I'm always freaked when I pee in CRJ 200, as the ceiling is very low and I actually have to tilt my neck sideways to fit in there (and I'm not even that high, probably about average male). Instant neck-breaker in case of severe turbulence.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-08-31 18:27:57 and read 7208 times.

I've flown this route a number of times and every time experienced severe turbulence. This particular flight appears to have flown into really strong turbulent weather. For those whom choose to ignore the crew instructions when seated please remain with the seat belt fastened, let this be another lesson.

Hope the passengers and crew have quick recovery.

EK8413

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Barney Captain
Posted 2013-08-31 18:34:29 and read 7196 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 61):
I've flown this route a number of times and every time experienced severe turbulence.

Are you sure it was severe? That's pretty incredible to be sure. With over 20k hours, I've only experienced severe turrb twice - and that was 2 times too many.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-08-31 19:07:11 and read 7140 times.

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 62):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 61):
I've flown this route a number of times and every time experienced severe turbulence.

Are you sure it was severe? That's pretty incredible to be sure. With over 20k hours, I've only experienced severe turrb twice - and that was 2 times too many.

Turbulent weather is probably the best word to describe it! When I say flown I'm speaking from a passengers perspective.

Hope this cheers you up Barney Captain  bigthumbsup 

EK8413

[Edited 2013-08-31 19:08:20]

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-08-31 19:15:32 and read 7125 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 54):
One thing I noticed was that the Chinese passengers just would not sit down. On taxi, on initial climb, though seat belt signed turbulence they would just get up and try to move around as normal. I felt sorry for the cabin crew shouting at them all the time.

So when it comes to injured pax on a China bound plane I have no sympathy.

Interesting, I've never noticed this on CX. I'm not saying that you're wrong or lying, but I wonder if the Seychelles attracts the sort of occasional leisure flying with no or very limited flying experience, whereas the people on CX trunk routes are more worldly? I don't know, I just found it to be an interesting observation.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 60):
I'm always freaked when I pee in CRJ 200, as the ceiling is very low and I actually have to tilt my neck sideways to fit in there (and I'm not even that high, probably about average male). Instant neck-breaker in case of severe turbulence.

Hint: sit down! I know some males don't even consider it for merely urinating, but in the confined spaces of an RJ/prop lav (and even some mainline aircraft if the roof is too sloping) it is much easier and more comfortable. If nothing else, you're less likely to splash around the place, or worse splash your pants. I'd never considered the safety aspect, but you're right, a good bit of CAT could see you in a neck brace for the rest of your life.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: aklrno
Posted 2013-08-31 19:32:40 and read 7076 times.

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 32):
I have to confess to being a turbulance junkie, you have not had your monies worth on a flight without a good bit of up & down.

Come visit us in RNO on a windy day (which is most days.) You will have a great time.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 47):
What's the difference between a shower and a bathroom? Passengers have been sitting on the loo unbuckled for a long time without someone being killed. Why would an EK shower be different?

The velocity with which you hit the interior is determined by the acceleration (about the same for everyone in the plane) and the distance through which the acceleration is applied. Most people are wedged so tightly in that lav that they don't have far to go. I'm tiny, and I can barely move around in one of those tiny rooms. I suspect larger people literally have no wiggle room.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2013-08-31 21:59:38 and read 6938 times.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 65):
The velocity with which you hit the interior is determined by the acceleration (about the same for everyone in the plane) and the distance through which the acceleration is applied. Most people are wedged so tightly in that lav that they don't have far to go. I'm tiny, and I can barely move around in one of those tiny rooms. I suspect larger people literally have no wiggle room.

  

Exactly. Although I think this applies largely to the EK showers, too, as they are small. At least if you are in the shower part. The rest of the bathroom is a bit larger. Here is a picture of the shower:



My conclusion is that flying around a widebody jet cabin is more dangerous than being tossed around bathrooms and showers.

(I could volunteer for some testing of this hypothesis on EK first class, if anyone is interested in financing my research.)

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: FlyboyOz
Posted 2013-08-31 23:58:47 and read 6794 times.

I always fasten my seatbelt loosely when take off and landing cos I have to turn other side so that I can look at the beautiful view through the windows. Also a bit more loose when cruising.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 11):
From what I know it is better to have them loosely fastened than not fastened at all.

I don't know whether we need to fasten the seatbelt tightly when take off and landing or not. I don't think I have heard about it from the flight safety demonstration. Does anyone know about it?

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 66):
Exactly. Although I think this applies largely to the EK showers, too, as they are small. At least if you are in the shower part. The rest of the bathroom is a bit larger

Can't remember what my friend has said about the shower. There's a small folded chair with the belt inside the shower. I could be wrong and need someone to figure out!

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: Kaiarahi
Posted 2013-09-01 03:44:31 and read 6506 times.

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 67):
I don't know whether we need to fasten the seatbelt tightly when take off and landing or not. I don't think I have heard about it from the flight safety demonstration.

Do you listen to/watch the safety briefings - it's demonstrated in every briefing?. "Snugly" is the word used in QF/NZ briefings.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-01 05:45:34 and read 6391 times.

Just to show how badly some passengers were injured:





Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-09-04 09:00:44 and read 5171 times.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 35):
Second A380 that suffers CAT.... size in this case does not matter...

TRB

Is that actually true?

Not in the sense of "Can an A380 can be affected by CAT?"... but will it be affected as badly?

I would guess that the size of the aircraft might have an affect in minimizing the strength of the disturbance - for example, if an RJ was hit by the same CAT, would it's movement be more pronounced / violent?

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: trb10
Posted 2013-09-04 11:59:23 and read 5030 times.

I thought planes were hardly supposed to move in turbulence? I'm a nervous flier and turbulence terrifies me and flying this Sunday I've been watching youtube videos talking about turbulence. They all seem to say that actually a plane hardly moves up and down during turbulence, so is this a lie?!

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: texdravid
Posted 2013-09-04 12:08:17 and read 5002 times.

In my travels, I find that Asian and Indian passengers stand up and walk around way too much and at inappropriate times such as takeoff, landing and taxiing. Flights to and from and within India are notorious for this. I feel sorry for the FA's in that situation.

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-09-05 05:27:21 and read 4530 times.

Quoting trb10 (Reply 71):
I thought planes were hardly supposed to move in turbulence? I'm a nervous flier and turbulence terrifies me and flying this Sunday I've been watching youtube videos talking about turbulence. They all seem to say that actually a plane hardly moves up and down during turbulence, so is this a lie?!

I understand some of us have fears of flying but for the record its the safest form of transportation.

Concerning the turbulence, it can certainly is scary especially for nervous travellers. The larger the aircraft the less turbelent the flight but in this case the aircraft appears to have flown through an air pocket catching the passengers and crew off guard. My recommendations is to obey the crew instructions and remain with your seat belt fasten whilst seated.

EK8413

Topic: RE: Thai TG600 CAT Turbulence, Passengers Injured
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-09-07 12:00:53 and read 4077 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 60):
I could imagine taking "#2" could take longer than a casual shower.

I know some people who would spend up to an hour taking #2! Thanks to smart phones, newspapers, etc...However, when flying most pax are courteous enough to spend as little time as possible in the restroom.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 60):
Besides, who says sitting is less dangerous than standing?

I say, and I think it's very obvious why, standing pax usually sustain more serious injuries because their heads are much closer to the ceiling than those sitting down. Why do you think there's often F/As injured in most CAT incidents?


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