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Topic: First Hadj-77W
Username: na
Posted 2013-09-11 03:04:48 and read 15667 times.


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Air Austral is leasing a 77W to Garuda for this year´s Hadj season. Interestingly it carries pre-2010 old-style titles and an almost invisible tail logo. A rather amateurish "dont care" look.

[Edited 2013-09-11 15:40:02 by Moderators]

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-09-11 03:22:13 and read 15566 times.

The French registration number associated with the Garuda livery looks weird !

Quoting na (Thread starter):
A rather amateurish "dont care" look.

They did not even care to paint the engines that still bear the UU logo...

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: na
Posted 2013-09-11 03:23:46 and read 15565 times.

Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-09-11 03:27:26 and read 15526 times.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Interestingly it carries pre-2010 old-style titles and an almost invisible tail logo

Same happened, and maybe still happens, with SV. They already had the sand livery while Hajj aircraft still carried the old green tail and Saudia titles.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-09-11 03:30:50 and read 15488 times.

The picture was taken a couple of months ago during another short term lease of the same aircraft to Garuda for the Umroh season. The aircraft then flew CGK JED CGK exclusively. The aircraft is now based in Medan's now KNO airport for trips KNO JED and KNO MED.

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.

We are talking a very short term lease here of about 3 to 4 weeks of outbound traffic followed by the same for inbound traffic and about 15 wide body aircraft leased by Garuda from various sources. There is no time for a complete paint job and it would also be a terrible waste of money.

The passengers we are talking about are on government organized groups and have often never set a foot on an aircraft in their entire lives and will likely not be setting another foot on an aircraft, for that matter. These flights have absolutely no resemblance to regular Garuda flights.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-09-11 03:40:56 and read 15379 times.

Actually, I'm surprised they bothered to paint it in Garuda's colors at all.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2013-09-11 04:48:38 and read 15065 times.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Interestingly it carries pre-2010 old-style titles and an almost invisible tail logo. A rather amateurish "dont care" look.
Quoting na (Reply 2):
Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.

Quite a disparaging opinion, IMHO.

Perhaps they have the sense and experience to know that the vast majority of Hajj travellers have never flown before, haven't got a clue which airline is the national airline of which country, couldn't care less about what colour the aircraft is painted and, to be honest, don't need to know.

Hajj has one purpose in aviation; transporting as many people as possible in a small time frame to their destination and back, safely and affordably.

The last thing Hajj travellers are going to be are airplane spotters anally focussed on the livery being 100% correct.

Jeez.  

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: PlaneHunter
Posted 2013-09-11 04:50:07 and read 15062 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
The passengers we are talking about are on government organized groups and have often never set a foot on an aircraft in their entire lives and will likely not be setting another foot on an aircraft, for that matter. These flights have absolutely no resemblance to regular Garuda flights.

Well said, I guess most passengers couldn't care less about old or new titles or the tail design.


PH

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: na
Posted 2013-09-11 05:12:40 and read 14927 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
We are talking a very short term lease here of about 3 to 4 weeks of outbound traffic followed by the same for inbound traffic and about 15 wide body aircraft leased by Garuda from various sources. There is no time for a complete paint job and it would also be a terrible waste of money.

No one expects a full paint job. Only a decent policy how do do things like this right.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 6):
The last thing Hajj travellers are going to be are airplane spotters anally focussed on the livery being 100% correct.

Granted, but a company with some spirit and proudness should at least care a little bit more about their public appearance, even if it for a few weeks. At least new titles would have cost zero cent more.
And while talking about saving bucks, the tail logo is a waste. Better nothing than this "I dont care" energency logo application.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: afterburner
Posted 2013-09-11 05:38:40 and read 14782 times.

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.

Some of the pilgrims may possibly be visually impaired. And most of them are aviation illiterate. They couldn't care less about the livery.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: afterburner
Posted 2013-09-11 06:19:19 and read 14564 times.

Quoting na (Reply 8):
At least new titles would have cost zero cent more.

New titles need new stencils.

Quoting na (Reply 8):
And while talking about saving bucks, the tail logo is a waste. Better nothing than this "I dont care" energency logo application.

I agree with you. Airline name should suffice.

[Edited 2013-09-11 06:23:11]

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: Fly-K
Posted 2013-09-11 06:21:36 and read 14547 times.

Maybe GA still had unused decals left from previous Hadj seasons (or had produced them in larger quantities to bring down the price) and just used those as a cost-saving measure.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: afterburner
Posted 2013-09-11 06:27:43 and read 14502 times.

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 11):
Maybe GA still had unused decals left from previous Hadj seasons (or had produced them in larger quantities to bring down the price) and just used those as a cost-saving measure.

Makes more sense.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: na
Posted 2013-09-11 06:28:21 and read 14491 times.

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 11):
Maybe GA still had unused decals left from previous Hadj seasons (or had produced them in larger quantities to bring down the price) and just used those as a cost-saving measure.

I thought so too at first, but those stickers are often of slightly different dimension and the tail logos also sometimes slightly different in colour, so I am a bit puzzled.

Quoting afterburner (Reply 10):
New titles need new stencils.

But they have the new titles on dozens of planes, so I dont get your comment.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: mozart
Posted 2013-09-11 06:38:10 and read 14417 times.

Interesting how everybody here only thinks about how passengers perceive things. I concur with those that say that pax probably don't care. Nor are we going to see them on internet forums discussing the merits of the IFE.

However, if I were a pilot taxiing during a very busy Hajj week in the middle of the night at JED airport with all those hybrid liveried planes around me an ATC instruction "Follow the Garuda 777" I'd find it very helpful if that Garuda 777 would be easy to recognize as a Garuda 777. But I suppose pilots are given other cues.

By the way, who flies those planes? Garuda pilots or Air Austral pilots? I assume Hajj sees both dry and wet leases, no? Can any crew fly to Medinah, given that the city is closed to non-Muslims during Hajj (I believe)?

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: A388
Posted 2013-09-11 07:18:01 and read 14075 times.

Quoting mozart (Reply 14):
However, if I were a pilot taxiing during a very busy Hajj week in the middle of the night at JED airport with all those hybrid liveried planes around me an ATC instruction "Follow the Garuda 777" I'd find it very helpful if that Garuda 777 would be easy to recognize as a Garuda 777.

The pilots flying those aircraft will at least know the registration of the aircraft they are flying beforehand. Why do they need the aircraft to have the airline's livery?

A388

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: afterburner
Posted 2013-09-11 07:37:40 and read 13704 times.

Quoting na (Reply 13):
But they have the new titles on dozens of planes, so I dont get your comment.

Forget about stencils. They must be decals.

Quoting mozart (Reply 14):
given that the city is closed to non-Muslims during Hajj (I believe)?

Non-Muslims are prohibited to enter the sacred part of Medina, which is in the central part of the city, at all times. The airport is outside of the area.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-09-11 07:51:37 and read 13458 times.

don't understand need for hybrid liveries for such temporary use, cant a full liveried aircraft of airline A simply operate for airline B, with additional title/logo combo decal of airline B pasted on the fuselage.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: apfpilot
Posted 2013-09-11 08:49:24 and read 12489 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 17):
don't understand need for hybrid liveries for such temporary use, cant a full liveried aircraft of airline A simply operate for airline B, with additional title/logo combo decal of airline B pasted on the fuselage.

yes, or here in the US they can put titles by the door that say: operated by XXXX (I'm not sure how this works internationally but I'd assume the regs are similar) they also have to make an announcement over the PA. With connection carriers it is usually something like welcome aboard delta connection flight 123 operated by skywest airlines.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: flightsimboy
Posted 2013-09-11 10:23:45 and read 11150 times.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
A rather amateurish "dont care" look.
Quoting Azure (Reply 1):
The French registration number associated with the Garuda livery looks weird !
Quoting Azure (Reply 1):
They did not even care to paint the engines that still bear the UU logo...
Quoting na (Reply 2):
Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.


Really? It's for the Hajj flights....not a complete takeover by Garuda....

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
We are talking a very short term lease here of about 3 to 4 weeks of outbound traffic followed by the same for inbound traffic and about 15 wide body aircraft leased by Garuda from various sources. There is no time for a complete paint job and it would also be a terrible waste of money.

        

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-09-11 10:47:19 and read 10826 times.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 3):
Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.

Or perhaps the passengers don't care.

For what it's worth, I think the plane looks sharp - when I read the post I thought they might have used a can of house paint or something. I don't think most of the passengers will notice.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: flightsimboy
Posted 2013-09-11 11:14:25 and read 10439 times.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 6):
The last thing Hajj travellers are going to be are airplane spotters anally focussed on the livery being 100% correct.

Jeez.  

     

I think most here don't understand the essence of the Hajj trip itself... pilgrims are in a state of religious fervor, especially even more after performing the Hajj, having come cleansed spiritually and the last thing on their mind is the 100% accuracy of the livery. Having lived in a Muslim country I know what this means for those performing the trip and for most it's a once in a lifetime trip, which might even be a once in a lifetime trip on a plane....some too poor to otherwise pay for the journey.

They don't have to be blind or ignorant not to notice it...this is not the first of many times Garuda has used other airline aircraft for the Hajj.....

Really, very anal indeed on the part of some a.netters. Well said blueshamu330!!....

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-09-11 12:10:37 and read 9599 times.

When on a religious pilgrimage, the color of the camel/donkey doesn't matter.. however finding your plane back home will be easier with airline titles.

If we all waited for German perfection, we would miss the pilgrimage time frame or incur an additional month lease time.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-09-11 12:45:48 and read 9092 times.

Quoting kanban (Reply 22):
When on a religious pilgrimage, the color of the camel/donkey doesn't matter.. however finding your plane back home will be easier with airline titles.

I suppose that would be true if they drop them off on one side of the field and instruct them to go walk to their plane on the other side of the field.  

However, I imagine all passengers will board either from jet bridges or via stairs from a bus that drops them off directly in front of the plane they will be traveling on.  

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-09-11 13:14:41 and read 8687 times.

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.

Why would passengers on Hajj flights care about the livery? People are making much too big a deal about a short term lease.

[Edited 2013-09-11 13:17:58]

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-09-11 13:17:09 and read 8973 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Why would passengers on Hajj flights care about the livery?

Well clearly because they booked their own tickets to pick that particular airline and therefore want their livery. I mean, why would you do so through a tour group and have your airline chosen by someone else?   

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-11 13:28:43 and read 8801 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 5):
Actually, I'm surprised they bothered to paint it in Garuda's colors at all.

Fully agree. It is common for Hajj to be flown with unmarked / white 747s and in aircraft owner colors, regardless of which airline is leasing the aircraft. Saudia and NAS Air of Saudi Arabia often use 747s chartered from airlines like Lion Air, in full Lion Air colors.

Hajj passengers are least bothered about the outside of the aircraft (and not too concerned about the inside either -- as long as they get there and back safely).

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
For what it's worth, I think the plane looks sharp

Agree. Garuda might want to make this their permanent color scheme, it looks good!

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-09-11 18:13:18 and read 6188 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
However, I imagine all passengers will board either from jet bridges or via stairs from a bus that drops them off directly in front of the plane they will be traveling on.

Thanks fro the smilie that indicated you knew it was a light hearted comment.. however since many are illiterate and having never flown remembering their carrier logo might ease the uncertainty.. until they realize there are 10 planes with the same logo.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: 9vswr
Posted 2013-09-11 18:46:20 and read 5932 times.

Garuda has been engaging in this practice for years now, and there haven't been any problems, so why fix a model that isn't broken?

A quick search of the database has yielded the following hybrid liveries, among many others.


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Photo © Alexander Gill
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Photo © Lee Collins


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Photo © A J Best
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Photo © Sam Chui


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Photo © Charles Cunliffe - ReaperPhotography
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Photo © Diego Ruiz de Vargas - Iberian Spotters


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Photo © Rolf Wallner


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Photo © Kok Chwee SIM

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: tk1244
Posted 2013-09-12 03:20:37 and read 2614 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):

Well clearly because they booked their own tickets to pick that particular airline and therefore want their livery. I mean, why would you do so through a tour group and have your airline chosen by someone else?

The problem is, those who go to hajj don't book their own tickets. It is all government organized. When I choose to go to hajj, I'm sure that I will fly on a TK charter flight via IST. No other option available for me. I can't say "hey, let me fly airline XXX because I like their service"

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: na
Posted 2013-09-12 03:28:35 and read 2589 times.

Quoting 9vswr (Reply 28):
Garuda has been engaging in this practice for years now, and there haven't been any problems, so why fix a model that isn't broken?

You really think its ok? Seriously, how can someone say it isnt broken if he looks at that mess you posted?

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Why would passengers on Hajj flights care about the livery?

Its not just about passengers, its also about corporate culture, corporate design, proudness. Garuda seems to lack all of that. They are negligant, that what this is telling me. Indonesian carriers dont have a good reputation, and for me its a sign of "Indonesion carriers are to bee avoided".

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: hooverman
Posted 2013-09-12 03:58:29 and read 2509 times.

Quoting tk1244 (Reply 29):
The problem is, those who go to hajj don't book their own tickets. It is all government organized. When I choose to go to hajj, I'm sure that I will fly on a TK charter flight via IST. No other option available for me. I can't say "hey, let me fly airline XXX because I like their service"

I'm lost here. You are in turkey and have a dutch flag behind your name. And then the Indonesian government will book you a flight? Why?

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-09-12 04:23:41 and read 2457 times.

Quoting na (Reply 30):
Its not just about passengers, its also about corporate culture, corporate design, proudness. Garuda seems to lack all of that. They are negligant, that what this is telling me. Indonesian carriers dont have a good reputation, and for me its a sign of "Indonesion carriers are to bee avoided".

May I respectfully suggest that you get better acquainted with the specifics of the Hajj operation before making such comments?

Garuda is tasked by the Indonesian goverment with transporting about half of the contingency of Indonesian pilgrims between various points in the country and Jeddah and Madinah. Within a frame of about 3 weeks, Garuda carries 100,000 passengers between a number of Indonesian airports and Saudi Arabia.

For that purpose the airline is wet leasing up to 15 widebody aircraft, not just the B77W you are focusing on, but also a number of A330s, B763s and B744s. These aircraft typically arrive in the country 2 to 4 days before the start of the Hajj operation and stay with the airline for about 3 weeks, after which they are directly flown back to their home bases. A week or so later, the reverse operation begins and the same aircraft fly people back from Saudi Arabia to Indonesia.

What kind of a paint scheme would you like to see applied to aircraft belonging to such companies as Air Austral, Air Europa, Hi-Fly, XL Airways and the like, given that these aircraft are dispatched in a different part of the world up to a couple of days before the Hajj operation, which then lasts for a mere couple of weeks?

When a while ago airlines such as LOT and Norwegian made similar short term leases of some of the very same aircraft which are now deployed on the Garuda Hajj operation, why did you not make similar remarks? Surely these aircraft were not donned in anything remotely similar to the LOT or Norwegian paint schemes for the short stint either?

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: Fly-K
Posted 2013-09-12 04:26:27 and read 2450 times.

BTW, wasn't GA considering getting A380 or B748 for the hajj ops?

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-09-12 04:46:32 and read 2382 times.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 6):
Hajj has one purpose in aviation

Indeed, in fact it is my understanding the part of the reason that they wear the same basic garment during Hajj is that they are showing their humility. Traveling first class may not be quite the appropriate message.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 6):
Jeez.

The etymology of this word makes its use intriguing in this context.  

tortugamon

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: tk1244
Posted 2013-09-12 04:47:51 and read 2382 times.

Quoting hooverman (Reply 31):

I'm lost here. You are in turkey and have a dutch flag behind your name. And then the Indonesian government will book you a flight? Why?

I never said that the Indonesian government will book for me  

I live in the Netherlands, but NLD doesn't organize hajj tours so I have to go via Turkey (parents are born in Turkey). That's why the Turkish government (ministry of religious affairs) will organize my hajj tour, which is only on TK charters. Same can be applied for Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Morocco and all other countries. My point was to note that you don't book your own flight, it is all organized by the governments.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-09-12 05:15:33 and read 2314 times.

Quoting tk1244 (Reply 35):
I live in the Netherlands, but NLD doesn't organize hajj tours so I have to go via Turkey (parents are born in Turkey). That's why the Turkish government (ministry of religious affairs)

question, I know there are direct hajj flights from German airports, like DUS for instance. The German Government certainly does not get involved, so who is organizing those flights? And couldn't you simply hop on a flight from DUS or an't Muslim organisations charter form Dutch airports?

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: mandala499
Posted 2013-09-12 05:38:36 and read 2270 times.

Quoting mozart (Reply 14):
By the way, who flies those planes? Garuda pilots or Air Austral pilots? I assume Hajj sees both dry and wet leases, no? Can any crew fly to Medinah, given that the city is closed to non-Muslims during Hajj (I believe)?

The previous lease was for non-Hajj and has both Garuda and Austral pilots (HB-IWC would know better), the Hajj lease is wet lease AMI+cockpit crew, so this time, it would be Austral pilots.

Quoting mozart (Reply 14):
However, if I were a pilot taxiing during a very busy Hajj week in the middle of the night at JED airport with all those hybrid liveried planes around me an ATC instruction "Follow the Garuda 777" I'd find it very helpful if that Garuda 777 would be easy to recognize as a Garuda 777. But I suppose pilots are given other cues.

I think all the pilots flying in and out of Jeddah, knows that a lot of the big jets there, aren't flying in the colours of the flight number... and as far as I know, they don't give "follow plane XXX" taxi clearances there.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
Well clearly because they booked their own tickets to pick that particular airline and therefore want their livery. I mean, why would you do so through a tour group and have your airline chosen by someone else?

Hajj flights these planes cater for are NOT "book your own ticket" ones. They cater for the "save up for Hajj or declare (and get inspected you have adequate funds to pay for the Hajj), then apply for the Hajj, wait until your number comes up on the annual quota system, then gets asked to pay, go through "preparation training", get packed into 'embarkation points' and are only told you're leaving on Day X to JED/Medinah, and back on day Y" from the airport nearest to your embarkation point (sometimes you also get a local charter to take you from nearest main airport to the nearest Hajj embarkation point)... then you just go... get bused around, stay in the approved accomodation (tents, some get hotels for some part of their Hajj), bused around, etc, then fly back, same procedure.
Here, you cannot officially accomplis the Hajj unless you do it through the government or approved tour operators. The Saudi government also don't want that. First, it's big money for them in terms of secondary business (the Saudi government aren't allowed to make money through the Hajj on a primary level of business), secondly, it's a way to prevent illegal immigration.

Quoting na (Reply 30):
Its not just about passengers, its also about corporate culture, corporate design, proudness. Garuda seems to lack all of that. They are negligant, that what this is telling me. Indonesian carriers dont have a good reputation, and for me its a sign of "Indonesion carriers are to bee avoided".

And yet Garuda continues to win awards (although I dunno how it could, but it's a bitter pill for even me to swallow...).

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
When a while ago airlines such as LOT and Norwegian made similar short term leases of some of the very same aircraft which are now deployed on the Garuda Hajj operation, why did you not make similar remarks? Surely these aircraft were not donned in anything remotely similar to the LOT or Norwegian paint schemes for the short stint either?

So NA, does that make LOT and Norwegian European "carriers to be avoided"? Or are you just discriminating to the "banned country" without looking at the merits? And if you say Hi-Fly is to be avoided for supplying the aircraft to Norwegian and not bothered to even put up 'adequate' identification that it's flying for Norwegian, I guess that means Monarch, MyTravel, Thomson, etc, and even Qantas & KLM (for they've provided the Hajj aircraft in recent years), are to be avoided... nice logic there!   

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: 9vswr
Posted 2013-09-12 06:08:48 and read 2196 times.

Quoting na (Reply 30):

You really think its ok? Seriously, how can someone say it isnt broken if he looks at that mess you posted?

As mentioned by other posters, the Hajj operation only requires the aircraft to be leased by the airlines involved for a period of 2-4 weeks. It's hardly economical to repaint an aircraft on short-term leases.

Garuda (and many other airlines involved in the Hajj operation) have been operating aircraft in hybrid liveries for years now with nary a problem. The pilgrims are not rabid anutters whose delicate sensibilities would be offended by an aircraft in a hybrid livery.

Either way, I'm assuming that since you've put up such vocal opposition to Garuda's supposed mismanagement, you have a feasible solution to the "problem"? Please do share.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: flightsimboy
Posted 2013-09-12 07:06:55 and read 2103 times.

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Seems they think their passengers are blind and ignorant.
Quoting na (Reply 30):
Its not just about passengers, its also about corporate culture, corporate design, proudness. Garuda seems to lack all of that. They are negligant, that what this is telling me. Indonesian carriers dont have a good reputation, and for me its a sign of "Indonesion carriers are to bee avoided".

Not hard to see who the blind and ignorant one is here lol

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
May I respectfully suggest that you get better acquainted with the specifics of the Hajj operation before making such comments?

     

Quoting 9vswr (Reply 38):
Either way, I'm assuming that since you've put up such vocal opposition to Garuda's supposed mismanagement, you have a feasible solution to the "problem"? Please do share.

     

Clearly the intention of this thread is to harm Garuda more than anything else!! May I suggest you read this

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/trip_reports/read.main/243586/

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-12 07:20:20 and read 2066 times.

Quoting na (Reply 30):
Its not just about passengers, its also about corporate culture, corporate design, proudness. Garuda seems to lack all of that. They are negligant, that what this is telling me. Indonesian carriers dont have a good reputation, and for me its a sign of "Indonesion carriers are to bee avoided".

Why just pick on Garuda? Every airline involved in the Hajj that has to wet-lease aircraft for a few weeks does this. Some don't even bother to paint their name on the aircraft at all!

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
May I respectfully suggest that you get better acquainted with the specifics of the Hajj operation before making such comments?

Exactly.

Topic: RE: First Hadj-77W
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-09-12 08:28:55 and read 1981 times.

If Garuda is a bad airline then I pray PIA start emulating them ASAP.

Quoting na (Reply 30):

Not a single airline fully paints hajj lease aircraft in full livery because its senseless, unnecessary and a waste of resources in time, money and manpower. The branding slapped on is just to help identify the aircraft at concerned airports to airport staff and pilots as mentioned who may be instructed to follow an airlines aircraft, otherwise they would probably fly in the leased aircrafts full branding.

Saudia do at times fully paint them because they continue using those aircraft much after hajj is over.

I can assure you even European carriers wouldn't do this nor would EK, EY and QR if they had to transport masses through leases.

Emirates did not even bother to paint their last remaining A310 for almost six years or so after introducing their new look in 2000 and having repainted the whole fleet in that, trust me it was brought to their attention only then they did it.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 34):
Indeed, in fact it is my understanding the part of the reason that they wear the same basic garment during Hajj is that they are showing their humility. Traveling first class may not be quite the appropriate message.

The humility bit is debatable now considering the makeover Mecca is getting, its competeing with Dubai, luxury hotels and apartments in the grotesque new clock tower building are offering amenities and services that would put the purpose of the pilgrimage to shame.

[Edited 2013-09-12 09:01:35]


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